U.S. Targeted By Russian, Chechen Insurgency Propaganda

April 21, 2013

The Russian government induces some smart propaganda by buying advertisement space in U.S. media. This to make the connection between the Boston marathon bomber, Chechen insurgents and U.S. sponsored terrorism in Syria.

The right advertisement column of the Washington Post homepage is currently filled with links to Russia Beyond The Headlines, a multi-language site run by a Russian government paper.

bigger

The current top story at the RBTH site is Suspected Boston bombers linked to Russia’s Caucasus but the top story featured in the RBTH advertisement at WashingtonPost.com is Chechen ‘Jihadist International’ emerges in Syria.

It is a prominent reminder for U.S. citizens that their government is promoting the same terrorism is Syria that hit them in Boston. Well done Mr. Putin.

Meanwhile the insurgency in Chechnya, the Command of the Mujahideen Vilayat Dagestan IR, just released their own statement (in Russian) about the Boston incidents. Points gleaned from the auto-translated text:

Any relation of the Boston event with our fight is just speculative
We don't fight the United States. We are at war with Russia for its occupation of the Caucasus and for its "heinous crimes against Muslims"
We do not strike civilian targets
The media should stop their speculations and the repetition of Russian propaganda.

The last paragraph is the most interesting as it introduces a conspiracy theory that could gain some grounds with neoconned, rightwing Russia bashers like the Washington Post editors:

If the U.S. government is really interested in establishing the true organizers of explosions in Boston, and are not complicit in Russian play, then they should focus on involvement in the events occurring Russian security services.

The theory of Russian security services involvement in the Boston event does not make much sense. Why did those services alarm the FBI about Tamerlan Tsarnaev back in 2011 if he was, knowingly or unknowingly, one of their agents?

Aside from that plausibility the Chechen insurgents, like their neocon friends, do not have a good record on truth. Their assertions not to strike at civilians runs counter to the record. The Russian propaganda is more believable.

Posted by b on April 21, 2013 at 13:35 UTC | Permalink

Comments

Guessing here, and taking it for granted that the two bros did drop off the bombs.
I think, when all this unravels somewhat the discerning will conclude that their actions had nothing to do with Chechnya, Dagestan, etc.. Russia.
The older bro went there because he was at a loose end, to see family etc., hang out, probably drink, and not be in the US, with wife and daughter. The younger never (?) went or ?
Of course this is a splendid oppo for Russia to make hay or hype about about its ‘terrorists’, and apparently (I read) Obama and Putin have already agreed to closer collabo on terrorist matters. (Putin first derided the US for 9/11 very strongly, but then changed his tune as he perceived the general terrorist meme could serve him as well.)
US citizens are trained to consider even a tourist visit to some ‘odd’ country as proof of being worthy of suspicion, a potential traitor, etc. This serves, in fact, to limit their access to the world and other ppl, and keeping them narrow minded.
The idea that the older brother was ‘indoctrinated’ (another case of the pot calling the kettle black or whatever the saying is) in Chechnya is really very fanciful. To do what? Come on!
If the Russkies warned about the older brother, or passed on info about him, and so on, that is part of the collaboration in the post-9/11 world, suspected Islamist terrorists, etc. etc. Any country that refuses the US implicit, sometimes explicit, demand on this point is in for flack. So everyone plays the game, and does a lot of fake busy work it considers without interest, without consequence, often laconic and obfuscating.
The US pressures other countries to turn up suspects, so it tends to be – anybody – or Mohammed Ali Mohammed, you know? Investigation pending!
Boston is a big city, the potential suspects investigated etc. will have been in the hundreds or thousands, endlessly ongoing.
We may hear part of the younger bros story, yes, likely. Wait and see. The story will be spun as ‘islamic radicalization.‘ (It is in his interest.)
The only important qu, imho, is, did they act alone or were they set up?

Posted by: Noirette | Apr 22 2013 15:20 utc | 101

Well, it would be in his best interest not to talk at all.
As is, it is without motive, perfect space for any projection. And does not qualify as terrorism as that would need motive.
The younger brother clearly was not that religious.
Politically the GOP would like to make it dangerous Islamist terrorism, whilst the administration would prefer it to be a personal problem.
Noone in the US except the extreme right seems to have an interest into making it international.

Posted by: somebody | Apr 22 2013 15:57 utc | 102

“Noone in the US except the extreme right seems to have an interest into making it international.”
interesting you should say that, because I saw, with my very own eyes, several people attempt to do just that, right here on this very website.
I was not aware that those individuals were in your opinion politically from “the extreme right”.
Has anybody told them about this yet?
I’m pretty sure this is something they would be interested in hearing.

Posted by: yah . . .But | Apr 22 2013 17:15 utc | 103

The criminal complain filed by the Feds against the younger brother. It includes the “facts and circumstances” of the bombing.
A good WSJ complete piece about the family and the troubles the elder had in recent times:
Boston Marathon Bombings: Turn to Religion Split Bomb Suspects Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev’s Home

Posted by: b | Apr 22 2013 17:51 utc | 104

The complain only has the bombing, the car stealing and the shootout. It does NOT have the dead MIT officer in it. Was that case unrelated?

Posted by: b | Apr 22 2013 18:06 utc | 105

105, yep, those were the people who actually robbed the store …
see here

Posted by: somebody | Apr 22 2013 18:18 utc | 106

CBS has a clearer photo of the younger guy getting out of the boat.
According to the criminal complain he has four gunshots. One wonders how he then managed to get out like that.

Posted by: b | Apr 22 2013 18:18 utc | 107

ben, kev
http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.ca/2013/04/oil-and-battle-for-chechnya.html
someone elses work, but, bolsters the case I made yesterday
this bombing benefits NATO and friends
Read the ending piece from the heritage foundation, look who was writing back in the 90’s
There is a continuity there that is unmistakeable

Posted by: Penny | Apr 22 2013 18:22 utc | 108

107) no that is from a surveillance thermal video, I think, showing them shooting stun grenades on the boat in the sequence after this image. The official story is that he tried to commit suicide. It is probably not true but this photo is not him climbing out of the boat, they would not give out something as incriminating as that.

Posted by: somebody | Apr 22 2013 18:30 utc | 109

It is probably not true but this photo is not him climbing out of the boat, they would not give out something as incriminating as that.
does any of that make any sense to anyone else? Kinda gobbledegook to me, tbh.
“Not true but . . . not him . . . not give out something.”
Nope – tried it a second time – STILL utterly incomprehensible

Posted by: yah . . .But | Apr 22 2013 18:37 utc | 110

somebody, that still doesnt make sense. You’re saying he was climbing out of the boat and THEN they started shooting it up?
And ‘they’ didn’t let the pic still out, it was leaked shortly after it happened, just like the dead TT pics and the still alive naked TT pics, and the pics of DT being arrested(face area now covered in blood). Just because the media picked up on these doesn’t mean it was leaked by law enforcement/FBI in an official way.
Also ‘they’ didn’t leak the high-res pics taken by that spectator from above and posted all over the net by anon, which it now would seem, pissed on their entire script and made them delay the storyline and then feign ignorance of the Tsarnaevs identity up until, interestingly, the point where DT was seriously wounded.

Posted by: L Bean | Apr 22 2013 19:38 utc | 111

111) Well all you can see in the still is him sitting with his head down. Everything else is interpretation.

Posted by: somebody | Apr 22 2013 19:45 utc | 112

So we’re back to him ‘sitting’ again, are we? Well he got there on his own, after the bomb-robot tore the tarp away. Or are u saying they also had a Djoker magnet?
His body position is absolutely getting(or falling) out of the boat, on his own. He is straddling it with his weight pitched to the outside of the boat. I’m not sure why we’re arguing about this, it’s quite obvious.

Posted by: L Bean | Apr 22 2013 19:53 utc | 113

defo Djoker magnet.
I saw them giving them out free, one with every Batman comic purchased, last week

Posted by: yah . . .But | Apr 22 2013 20:30 utc | 114

Well, as you can see the brother’s backpacks’ are different colors of the one shown after the blast.
http://imgur.com/a/Nx8EU

Posted by: neretva’43 | Apr 22 2013 23:01 utc | 115

and many recognizing that ripped backpack is actually from the Craft guy.

Posted by: neretva’43 | Apr 22 2013 23:04 utc | 116

as can be seen Tamerlan was caught alive, and than executed.
I just read: http://legaltimes.typepad.com/files/marathon-complaint.pdf which is basically retold the video itself. No mention of the color of backpack. Yesterday according to CNN the FBI said that details about timer are “unknown” although there is a photo of PCB taken on place of the blast.
Boston Bombing: The Official Story Proves Dzhokhar Is Innocent – a Photo Essay
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2013/04/22/boston-bombing-the-official-story-proves-dzhokhar-is-innocent-a-photo-essay/
If this is true it is just unbelievable.

Posted by: neretva’43 | Apr 22 2013 23:20 utc | 117

We are first told that they robbed the gas station:
http://www.examiner.com/article/one-bombing-suspect-dead-suspect-2-on-run-watertown-mass-video?cid=rss
Than they denied it:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati%25C2%25ADon/2013/04/19/7-eleven-robbery%25C2%25AD-boston/2097915/
We are told they killed MIT officer. It turn out not to be truth.
From Complaint:
“Near midnight on April 18, 2013, an individual carjacked a vehicle at gunpoint…”
Why would anybody, and in particular “dangerous terrorist”, hijacked car at gunpoint at midnight hour in Cambridge where is thousands of cars is just incomprehensible.

Posted by: neretva’43 | Apr 22 2013 23:49 utc | 118

b @98
While I wouldn’t rule anything out–or in–regarding the private contractors, I think it’s more likely than not they were there simply for security work. Of course, that in itself may well raise the question whether or not there was some prior evidence that an attack would occur which of course would raise further questions.
Beyond that, it’s evidence of politically connected contractors making big bucks off of the security state through privatization of core state functions–and in this case failing miserably.

Posted by: sleepy | Apr 22 2013 23:49 utc | 119

@113, if he was shot in the neck/throat, he would choke, so sitting would be a typical reaction, and one of panic irrelevant of what is happening around. One odd or back door comment in the NYT by the administration: The US is engaged in an armed conflict with AQ, not all Muslim extremists.
I still feel this is as much a issue with the current youth generation, like Aurora, and forcing linkage to groups is no addressing the issues, all that is happening is political spin, and creating an enemy within. That being said, I did say in part, and open to CT’s/views and clearing the smoke screens.

Posted by: kev | Apr 23 2013 0:25 utc | 120

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/dzhokhar-tsarnaev-read-miranda-rights-in-bedside-proceedings

Posted by: neretva’43 | Apr 23 2013 0:31 utc | 121

kev, even if this were the case it proves they shot him as he was surrendering of his own accord. They killed his brother after he was in custody,so…either way it’s fcked.

Posted by: L Bean | Apr 23 2013 0:35 utc | 122

“Beyond that, it’s evidence of politically connected contractors making big bucks off of the security state through privatization of core state functions–and in this case failing miserably.”
This seems right. I am sure that cities are spending their big bucks on these new private armies. These companies is a real true hell that doesn’t belong in America. Especially with mottos like “Violence solves problems”. When needed, this will be the SS, pure and simple.
To my original question – was all this extra security because they had a specific warning (though this was explicitly denied)? There are photos that seem to show a man with a checking out a radiation detector moments after the blast – presumably to check for dirty bombs – perhaps this is all part security these days. But if the “bomb drill” is true, it really makes one wonder why the security level was so high. That needs to be answered.
As for the boat picture, I can’t believe you are trying to tell us that is a thermal image. There are other thermal images. They look nothing like that. That is a color still. You can see the red paint on the boat. This is very important is why we are arguing about it. What to make of this except for he is not nearly as badly hurt as he is being reported as being now? Add to that the fact that he is actually getting good press, as someone else pointed out, for a terrorist bomber (“the younger impressionable brother…”) and won’t be treated as an enemy combatant?
As b pointed out though, we may never know what really happened. But we can see what has happened – private armies roaming our streets and a whole city under orders not to leave their homes. All the right wing commentators worried about martial law? Its here.

Posted by: guest | Apr 23 2013 0:43 utc | 123

@ guest
I sense that you are in denial. Or you lack historical context. Read this:
http://newdeal.feri.org/wallace/haw23.htm

Posted by: neretva’43 | Apr 23 2013 0:49 utc | 124

I have read that. I study a fair amount of ww2 and post-war US history. But I missed your point. You’re saying that organizations like Craft don’t have close parallels to fascist paramilitaries like the SS? I’m willing to bet there is plenty of racism inside those organizations.
Unless you mean the right-wingers worried about martial law comment – that was meant as a dig at them. They claim to be worried about martial law, but will be the first ones to join Blackwater and Craft and cheer the “brave law enforcement officers” who will be the first to crack an uruly citizens skull.
____
How could the FBI not have identified the suspects from their photos? They must have a list of potential terrorists in Boston, and it can’t be that fucking long that you couldn’t put names to faces. It was reported that DT went to a college party the night of the bombings and TT spent time at home. How the hell were they not swept up immediately? Also strange to note the DT didn’t try to hide his face at all.

Posted by: guest | Apr 23 2013 1:06 utc | 125

From ’43s link:
“Fascism in the postwar inevitably will push steadily for Anglo-Saxon imperialism and eventually for war with Russia. Already American fascists are talking and writing about this conflict and using it as an excuse for their internal hatreds and intolerances toward certain races, creeds and classes.”
Nothing’s changed.

Posted by: guest | Apr 23 2013 1:15 utc | 126

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has apparently chosen to communicate.

A senior government official said Tsarnaev has told investigators — by writing some answers down, and by nodding yes or shaking his head no to others — that he and his brother were not in touch with any overseas terrorists or groups.
Tsarnaev, who has injuries to his tongue preventing him from speaking properly, also indicated that he and his brother conceived the bombing attack on their own, and were motivated by religious fervor.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/22/17860373-officials-hospitalized-bombing-suspect-says-he-and-brother-acted-alone-motivated-by-religion?lite

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 23 2013 2:02 utc | 127

Obviously, this nineteen-year-old kid, if he really communicated the “religious fervor” thing, has caused some major problems for the world’s Muslims. Of course we don’t know the nature of the questioning, there’s some hope there.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 23 2013 2:28 utc | 128

It’s starting:
*The Tsarnaev Brothers and the Coming Savage Empire of Islam
*Recognizing Radical Islam as Our Enemy: Lessons From the Cold War
*‘Mysterious Motive’: Cover-Up of Boston Attack’s ‘Why’ Begins — All the irrational ways they will use to blame everything but Islamism.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 23 2013 3:11 utc | 129

Here’s the complaint against Dzhokhar Tsarnaev.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 23 2013 3:22 utc | 130

Here is the transcript of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev’s appearance before a magistrate at his bedside.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 23 2013 3:30 utc | 131

Upon actually reading it, only a preliminary hearing.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 23 2013 3:33 utc | 132

I was wrong — go to the pages.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 23 2013 3:37 utc | 133

Alone the wording ‘religious fervor’ it just so out of context for any 19 year old, geek or not. So he nodded that, or penned that? If this was the case, would they not be suicide intent, or specific in the target group?I am sure the victims had varied backgrounds and religions. Possibly my mind just cant see the ideology as religious fervor is not in my vocab or mindset and i am missing the point?

Posted by: kev | Apr 23 2013 3:44 utc | 134

128) I guess US citizens have to learn that in a globalised world what is ok abroad is ok at home.

At some point, however, Dzhokhar and his brother plunged into a subculture that is grimly familiar to counterterror agencies in Europe and, to a lesser but worrisome extent, the United States, officials said.
There are signs that the brothers showed interest in the conflict in Syria, which has drawn al Qaida fighters and other militants from across the Muslim world and Europe, according to a U.S. counterterror official. Like others interviewed for this story, the official requested anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the ongoing case.
The brothers had viewed videos about the plight of Syrian Muslims, the official said. Syria is the latest hotspot on the world map of jihad. Holy warriors a decade ago were inspired by videos about brutal combat between jihadis and Russian troops in the brothers’ family homeland: the predominantly Muslim region of Chechnya, a breeding ground for al Qaida fighters in the late 1990s and early 2000s.
Tamerlan had viewed a video titled “I Dedicate My Life to Jihad,” according to a U.S. law enforcement official. The brothers also were apparently influenced by the online Inspire magazine, a slick English-language publication that plays a strong role in disseminating ideological tracts and bomb-making techniques to Western extremists, the U.S. counterterror official said.

Posted by: somebody | Apr 23 2013 5:20 utc | 135

These pictures seem to support the official narrative regarding the initial shoot out.

Posted by: Jeff65 | Apr 23 2013 5:56 utc | 136

@ 135 – almost every point made in your c&P is “according to U.S. law enforcement officials” –
Anyone stupid enough to trust so much a one word from an anonymous “U.S. law enforcement official” is a damned fool

Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 23 2013 6:27 utc | 137

137) you can compare with Tamerlan’s youtube channel. It is one of the rare mentions in the Media of this context – so yes, I tend to believe it. It goes against the official narrative that this is individual radicalization – unconnected to Al Qeida – unconnected to US support for Syrian rebels and rebel PR, making private funding directed to them from the US legal.

Posted by: somebody | Apr 23 2013 7:10 utc | 138

“137) you can compare with Tamerlan’s youtube channel. “
no thanks – someone else could have created that, or altered it’s content since it’s creation. We only have the word of anonymous “U.S. law enforcement officials” that that is his channel and that he personally posted everything that appears there.
Like I already said: “Anyone stupid enough to trust so much a one word from an anonymous “U.S. law enforcement official” is a damned fool”

Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 23 2013 7:20 utc | 139

Article making a good case that the military guys present were National Guard.

Posted by: Jeff65 | Apr 23 2013 11:32 utc | 140

@140
All that is taken from Infowar.com, Alex Jones.

Posted by: neretva’43 | Apr 23 2013 11:50 utc | 141

The media have been the pits. While the confusion certainly stems from hysteria, incompetence, lack of journalistic standards, etc. it also has a ‘deliberate’ air…
I think part of the difficulty of understanding what went down is that their actions seem so senseless, strange, so badly planned. They seemed unaware of CCTV. They behaved as normal (or close) right after the fact. The younger even went to party. They hijacked a car, let the hostage go, and kept! his cell phone. (Tracked.) They apparently did not understand ATMs either (tried several with the hostages card when above the limit and inputting the card can be traced.) They careened around with arms and the younger (I read) is the one who killed the elder by driving over him.
I think the elder was ‘unbalanced’ or weird, or off, schizoid (not that such labels are solid or of much help), maybe just a misfit at a loose end with a violent disposition. (Several complaints in the past, incl. domestic, and was maybe involved in the *Brendan Mess* -goog- murder.) Certainly he was vaguely, superficially, into politics and conspiracies and watched Jihadist vids. But that is what ppl like that do. That is where they go when they cannot meld with a right-wing-patriot-racist stance and/or aren’t in any position of power.
The younger was not a geek (see above) – more of an innocent* – and the elder was too caught up in his life, his churning thoughts, to understand the world he was acting in – he controlled the younger.
They set off bombs the way others organize, and impose, surprise events or parties for some life milestone e.g. golden wedding, birthday, etc. That is a very uncomfortable thing to grasp.
(The qu. of patsies still remains?)
* by innocent I mean someone who participates in life ostensibly in a normative way, with a puppy-dog attitude (which is accepted in the US for a young college student, though he was failing most of his classes…) without much internal control, experiencing child-like emotions, possessing little personal agency. He will talk (unless a lawyer stops him.)

Posted by: Noirette | Apr 23 2013 12:10 utc | 142

142) yes, the q. of patsies still remains. Especially the question who killed Sean Collier as he responded to the robbery of the 7/11 when he was killed, a robbery that has been acknowledged (by the shop PR person phoning to the press) not to have been done by them. And arguable, him arriving on the scene set the flight of the brothers off.
Without that flight and the shootout the case against the brothers would have been week
And there is noone in the media asking this, even after this murder has been ommitted from the list of deeds the younger brother is accused of.

Posted by: somebody | Apr 23 2013 12:42 utc | 143

“And there is noone in the media asking this, even after this murder has been ommitted from the list of deeds the younger brother is accused of.”
Clearly it is nothing more noteworthy than mere journalistic incompetence, obviously 😉

Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 23 2013 12:54 utc | 144

http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.ca/2013/04/oil-and-battle-for-chechnya.html
Kev, Ben I rewrote that entire post
It was too difficult to read the way it had been formatted
Added more links back to some of my own work within the blog
There is zero doubt in my mind this framing of the chechen/american brothers will play right into the hands of the NATO war machine
Bevin: I do hope you will come and read it all, entirely, also?

Posted by: Penny | Apr 23 2013 13:07 utc | 145

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/04/20/299247/us-most-obvious-false-flag-attack-yet/
I always despised those with prefix “ex” or “former” who are now so-called experts, as well as veterans. There is no such thing as ex-CIA, or Veterans for Peace, once you are in there is no way out, it is like Mafia. This article above is proof of that, he is now serving new master but not compromising the old one, highly racist article and he doesn’t even mentioned special WMD unit from NY and Craft Int.

Posted by: neretva’43 | Apr 23 2013 13:08 utc | 146

Posted by: neretva’43 | Apr 23 2013 13:08 utc | 147

@Norriete – you are a funny girl.

Posted by: neretva’43 | Apr 23 2013 13:11 utc | 148

@136
Wow, all that is very conveniently took place in front of the snappers\. That’s interesting. I saw stream of similar pictures from Marathon. My feelings were: astonishment how he/she was “skillful”, and I was puzzled that person was right on time on right place. Another possibility is that he/she has divine sense of place and/or time. From various angles, even odd angles like someone is standing in the air, all of them in high resolution!!
How about this: Eyewitness says Boston Suspect 1 RAN OVER BY POLICE SUV & NO BOMB
http://youtu.be/IpqfsOHQ6vQ
“She says that she did not see the brother fire any shots and also says that it was a Police vehicle that ran him over.”
this one could be fake too – to cause confusion and distraction. What we do “know” is that Tamerlan is executed. But do we? He maybe now enjoying new ID and going to have successful carrier!
What is sure that this is PSYOP of National Security State where the mission ended with fiasco. It is actually ridiculous. Second one is left alive (with or without quotes) to make the show going on. To be tried on secret trial, with secret evidence and in solitary confinement, on suicide watch 24/7 in supermax prison.
The other day Aron Swartz is buried in Chicago and his father told to news “Government killed my son”. For a second time MIT/Government is in focus. Even Swartz who was “wonder” kid and belonged to establishment by all accounts (family of millionaire) was indirectly executed. By temporary definition of National/Tribal Security State he was not The Other one. When that definition is due expire remain to be seen. His tribe still enjoying status of “the most reliable ally”. But he crossed some foggy line. That is the danger of mafia-capitalism non-existence of Law and you have to walk being careful not to cross it. The whole this thing is like Errol Morris’ movie The Thin Blue Line.

Posted by: neretva’43 | Apr 23 2013 13:37 utc | 149

@136
There is word for it: Reality Based Community

Posted by: neretva’43 | Apr 23 2013 13:44 utc | 150

@Jeff65 – those photos clearly show two cars involved. The stolen one and a green sedan. That is a bit different form the first official tales which only had the stolen SUV in them.

Posted by: b | Apr 23 2013 14:41 utc | 151

There has been an interesting development in this little suspense drama that have gripped our country’s attention. This morning on a Philadelphia radio station, KYW 1060 AM, it was reported that the older brother, Tarmalen, was a suspect in the 2011 brutal murder one roommate and another friend. The two individuals were found in a room with their throats cut, their bodies mutilated, and marijuana poured all over their bodies. If I have the chronology right, this occurred after he return from the Caucases. It’s amazing how these historical events always have these “peculiar” and “illogical” twists and turns. Yet the FBI lost track of him. Hmmm… It reminds me of the histories of other personages like Lee Harvey Oswald, Luis Angel Castille, and the list goes on. These little dips and turns in putting together the investigative puzzle should raise a red flag in any peron’s mind.

Posted by: AEWilliams | Apr 23 2013 16:24 utc | 152

Don Bacon @ 10 — Rep. King is becoming one of America’s best known anti-Muslimists.
After the Boston bombing incident, he called for observation of all Muslims, albeit he said 98% were good people. But…still, need watching.
http://www.policymic.com/articles/36919/peter-king-says-we-should-put-all-muslims-under-surveillance

Posted by: jawbone | Apr 23 2013 16:28 utc | 153

So, the brothers were “motivated” by “religious fervor”. Does anyone else note a few missing elements here? just exactly how does one get from “religion” and “fervor” to bombing a marathon? has anyone ever quoted any of the brothers displaying dislike of America in general and a marathon as its symbol? were any of them heard to hurl accusations against the US?
Again, it’s not enough to “read” jihadist sites. Or, for that matter, conspiracy sites. If one has sympathy for molems in Syria, how does that connect to bombing a marathon in Boston?
Something sucks here. it sounds like the young fellow, seriously wounded and unable to talk, is just nodding his head to whatever is asked.
Actually I know a few people who suffer from “fervor”, some political, some religious, some environmental in origin. Not one of them would ever remotely concoct a scheme like the Boston bomb, or any bomb at all, with just “fervor’ as motivator.
As everyone has pointed out, there are strong indications the two brothers were patsies for some other agency. Maybe it doesn’t add up because they were “Plan B” with the saudi perhaps as Plan A. Something went wrong with the saudi national though, so the Tsanrnev brothers team for “jihad’ was dusted off. I expect there will be more problems, if there is an open trial and if the young Dzokhtar ever regains his ability to speak. one suspects he may not be all that articulate backing his “fervor” with the “deeds” ascribed to him.

Posted by: Merlin2 | Apr 23 2013 18:20 utc | 154

154) The motive has changed already.

Posted by: somebody | Apr 23 2013 18:59 utc | 155

The Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority SWAT team and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives were on the scene. Whatever happened to city police?

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 23 2013 19:07 utc | 156

TheAtlantic
‘A Clear Setup’: The Conspiracy Theory of the Boston Bombing Suspects’ Father

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 23 2013 19:10 utc | 157

@somebody The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity to describe an ongoing investigation
Apparently that’s where Dzhokhar Tsarnaev’s “testimony” is coming from? Is that right? The ever-present “anonymous sources?”
(I got mixed up earlier in the thread, I assumed we would get legal testimony from his bedside, but apparently we’re getting only this anonymous prattle.)

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 23 2013 19:14 utc | 158

@157 So the dad’s a lawyer too. I thought he fixed up old cars. Versatile family to say the least.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/04/the_boston_bombers_parents_anzor_tsarnaev_and_zubeidat_tsarnaeva_are_full.html

Posted by: dh | Apr 23 2013 19:36 utc | 159

158) where you in doubt we would get anything else?
159) yep, also read he met his wife as a student, so possibly the mother is a lawyer, too, uncle and aunt are, also, it is a family of lawyers

Posted by: somebody | Apr 23 2013 19:40 utc | 160

“according to [completely anonymous] U.S. officials familiar with the interviews.”
Dude they are “Official” – everyone knows “Official” people don’t lie – they are clearly too incompetent for that.

Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 23 2013 19:43 utc | 161

dh, the father was only a mechanic in the US – like 100% of the refugees and poorer immigrants I’ve known, had higher status and credentials in their home countries. Here, they work in factories and gas stations.

Posted by: L Bean | Apr 23 2013 20:34 utc | 162

more strange news – they shot the MIT officer because they needed a gun but could not get it ….

Posted by: somebody | Apr 23 2013 21:14 utc | 163

They are taxi and limo drivers. They can drive, imagine that.

Posted by: neretva’43 | Apr 23 2013 21:20 utc | 164

@ 162 Good point L.Bean. The family were refugees from Chechnya. They took what work they could find. At some point Tamerlan got radicalized and the parents divorced. It seems as though they were not able to shake off the past and make a new life in America and the father went back to Russia (Dagestan). Unless of course I’m swallowing some concocted story.

Posted by: dh | Apr 23 2013 21:28 utc | 165

165) the uncle worked/works? for US oil companies having been trained in khazak law and presumably having relations and connections there. The father seems to be comfortable with the Russian side in Chechnya – and Dagestan. The father came asking for political asylum – that does not mean anything necessarily or maybe it does. One article mentions the family thinks the brothers were set up by the Russian and US secret services – whatever, the family must have known and navigated between both. In one article the mother describes Tamerlan talking to the FBI – they were present – and Tamerlan seems to have made fun of them, telling them that they lived in a country where he was allowed to read whatever he wanted.
Generally, the norms of societies become very relative when you live in several societies with very different norms. So the Soviet/post Soviet world of the Father would be very different with Chechnya and Dagestan today, not to mention the US.
The boxing career of Tamerlan was serious, there is a report of him having been to an Austrian training camp twice.
The story as told stinks on many levels as now we are told to believe that the brothers started to plan the bombing of the Boston marathon one week before the event.

Posted by: somebody | Apr 24 2013 3:27 utc | 166

166) the most likely reason for all the unlikely news of course is that journalists on low wages just invent stuff for clicks. Which would be a new low.

Posted by: somebody | Apr 24 2013 3:30 utc | 167

168) ok. The FBI was warned by Russia multiple times concerning Tamerlan.
Why to worry? They killed Osama bin Laden, didn’t they?

Posted by: somebody | Apr 24 2013 3:50 utc | 168

In a closed briefing on Tuesday, members of the Senate Intelligence Committee learned that Russia alerted the United States about Tsarnaev in “multiple contacts’’ — including “at least once since October 2011,’’ said Richard Burr, a Republican of North Carolina, speaking with reporters afterward.
Senator Richard Burr, Republican member of the Select Committee on Intelligence, has offered us a crumb of information from a “closed briefing.” Oh thank you Senator Burr. Now what’s your agenda? Never mind, I know. At least you’re not the usual “anonymous source who declines to be identified because of __________ .”

Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 24 2013 4:45 utc | 169

“166) the most likely reason for all the unlikely news of course is that journalists on low wages just invent stuff for clicks. Which would be a new low.”
I’m sorry but as usual THAT is just complete and utter bullshit.
In THIS instance, the most likely reason or all the unlikely news is that the anonymous “U.S. law enforcement officials” are lying through their teeth.

Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 24 2013 5:09 utc | 170

“Generally, the norms of societies become very relative when you live in several societies with very different norms. So the Soviet/post Soviet world of the Father would be very different with Chechnya and Dagestan today, not to mention the US.”
Wow – how profound – you mean “time passes and things change”?- simply amazing, whoda thunk it?

Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 24 2013 5:12 utc | 171

169) sure, this is getting party politics, the Democrats should not be defending the FBI though, don’t you think?
It is not surprising there are so many conspiracy in the US – they are not common in Germany – if most of the information is kept secret?
How about insisting everything comes out into the open?

Posted by: somebody | Apr 24 2013 5:30 utc | 172

171) What do you think does it feel like to share your time between one society where your relatives and family friends routinely get killed and another society where people think it is heroic that your relatives and family friends get killed but cannot bear when that happens to one of their own?

Posted by: somebody | Apr 24 2013 5:38 utc | 173

“another society where people think it is heroic that your relatives and family friends get killed but cannot bear when that happens to one of their own?”
If YOU think that THAT is what people think, then perhaps you might benefit from getting out and about a little more.
“your relatives and family friends get killed “
What evidence do you have that relatives and family of the Tsarnaevs were killed in Chechnya?
I suspect that is just another of those many many many many many instances where you just made that up out of thin air – something you’re very prone to do.

Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 24 2013 5:54 utc | 174

174, no, I actually am talking to people.

Posted by: somebody | Apr 24 2013 6:30 utc | 175

I’ll ask the question once again

“What evidence do you have that relatives and family friends of the Tsarnaevs were killed in Chechnya?

I suspect that is just another of those many many many many many instances where you just made that up out of thin air – something you’re very prone to do.

Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 24 2013 6:54 utc | 176

“174, no, I actually am talking to people.”
REALLY?
Cos it appears that the average US Citizen hasn’t got a clue who or what a “Chechnya” might be:

Czech Ambassador Clarifies: His Country And Chechnya ‘Are Two Very Different Entities’
Addressing what he described as a “most unfortunate misunderstanding” to emerge after it was revealed that the two suspects in the Boston Marathon bombings are of Chechen descent, Petr Gandalovič, Ambassador of the Czech Republic to the United States, issued a statement on Friday to clarify that the “Czech Republic and Chechnya are two very different entities.”

Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 24 2013 7:24 utc | 177

So who is “Misha”?
Boston Bombing Suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev Influenced By Mysterious Radical

In the years before the Boston Marathon bombings, Tamerlan Tsarnaev fell under the influence of a new friend, a Muslim convert who steered the religiously apathetic young man toward a strict strain of Islam, family members said.
Under the tutelage of a friend known to the Tsarnaev family only as Misha, Tamerlan gave up boxing and stopped studying music, his family said. He began opposing the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. He turned to websites and literature claiming that the CIA was behind the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, and Jews controlled the world.
…

Could have been on of those FBI trap laying informants or could have been … whatever.

Posted by: b | Apr 24 2013 9:17 utc | 178

” Could have been one of those FBI trap laying informants or could have been … whatever.”
I have it on good authority, from one of my stable of numerous and utterly reliable “anonymous sources”, that it’s most likely to be the C.I.A.

Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 24 2013 9:33 utc | 179

178 whatever.
No convinced Jihadi would call a youtube channel with Jihadi videos “terrorists”.

Posted by: somebody | Apr 24 2013 10:39 utc | 180

178 ) plus, he was described in such a distinctive way by the uncle that his full name must soon come out, if not ….

Posted by: somebody | Apr 24 2013 10:40 utc | 181

“178 whatever.
No convinced Jihadi would call a youtube channel with Jihadi videos “terrorists”.”
So are you saying:
A) It’s (on the balance of probabilities) NOT his channel? (i.e.: Someone else may have set it up)
A:1) It IS his channel BUT: Someone else has had access to posting-rights on his channel? (With or without his knowledge)
B) He’s not a “convinced Jihadi”? (But possibly merely acting as one because he was requested to do so by some 3-letter Agency)
C) ALL of the above
D) None of the above

Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 24 2013 12:57 utc | 182

The u.s.a. is going down the tubes. Heck, they can’t even set-up a terrorist/patsy without blowing it all to hell.
Seriously, does anyone believe there’s a reporter from the public’s media copying down what ever this kid is writing? Since when are journalists allowed to see the ramblings of suspects in major crimes? Did the D.C. sniper kid get this sort of access to the front page, how about Noriega… how about Manson?
This whole thing is spin, spin, spin. Personally, when I see empire become this desperate for distraction, I figure they’re doing something that we really should be paying attention to.
I am between a rock and a hard place… empires that have crossed the line from semi-democratic, to full despotic, aren’t long for the world. Maybe someone can point me to a good read about life in a post-fascist society?

Posted by: DaveS | Apr 24 2013 13:37 utc | 183

Ok here’s a piece of info I have not heard before:

”
The boys’ story began in the mid 1980s when a young Kazakh soldier called Anzor Tsarnaeva, met his future wife Zubeidat whilst completing his two years of military service.
He was aged 19 or 20 at the time, so she would have been 17 or 18. Zubeidat was from Dagestan, which borders Kazakhstan to the West.
They fell in love, got married and had four children.
The oldest was Tamerlan, followed by daughters Bella, now 24, Alilina, now 22, and finally Dzhokhar.
Relatives told MailOnline that In 2002 Anzor, now 47, and Zubeidat, 45 came to the US on tourist visas with a young Dzhokhar and claimed asylum.
The rest of the family joined them a year later, having spent 12 months living with Ruslan at his home in Almaty, the capital of Kazakhstan, where they used to go to private school and were visited every week by the grandmother.”

So basically I have to find out from the Daily Mail (of all F-ing places) that NEITHER of the parents are from Chechnya!!
Given that, (IF it is true) then ALL this talk of them being “Chechen” is complete and utter bollix.

Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 24 2013 13:50 utc | 184

“empires that have crossed the line from semi-democratic, to full despotic, aren’t long for the world.”
The Roman Empire lasted HUNDREDS of years after it switched from some form of (very limited) Democracy to Full-ON Despotism
Mind you, as far as I know, they were not up to their eye-balls in debt.
Though I do occasionally find myself wondering where Constantine got all the cash from to build Constantinople.

Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 24 2013 13:54 utc | 185

184) yah…, where to start. Ethnic borders in the Ex-Russian, Ex-Soviet Empire are not state borders, which is very rare all over the world anyway. Stalin considered Chechens and other Caucasus ethniticies potentially pro German (the German military and secret service played colonial games during the Second World War) so he did a population transfer of Chechens and Tartars amongst others to – amongst other places – Khasakhstan. So the Khazak soldier in your news bit is ethnic Chechen and the mother is from a different ethnicity in Dagestan. It did not matter during the time of the Soviet Union, it mattered afterwards when all hell broke loose in the fight for the rich Caucasus resources. The US media has tried to explain all this.
It made perfect sense that the Tsarnaevs tried to escape all this for the sake of their children. However, it was terrible late for the school career of their children and for their own careers, and must have taken a lot of desperation and courage.

Posted by: somebody | Apr 24 2013 14:16 utc | 186

If this is correct the Tsarnaevs came to the US on tourist visas then applied for asylum.
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/04/there-are-almost-no-chechens-in-the-united-states-heres-why/275195/

Posted by: dh | Apr 24 2013 14:30 utc | 187

“184) yah…, where to start”
Well . . . If I were you I wouldn’t bother.
It ain’t like I’m going to give it anything like the respect you so obviously think it deserves.

Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 24 2013 14:35 utc | 188

Oh wait . . . from dh’s link
“The satirical Onion newspaper posited that most Americans are too uninformed about the region to make assumptions about it.
I’d say that about most Europeans (Brits, Frogs, Krauts, Paddies and even those that might claim to be Österreichers etc etc) too

Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 24 2013 14:39 utc | 189

I am beginning to understand why the FBI has to entrap terrorists to find them – because from their terrorist list they cannot tell if and when someone will act.

Posted by: somebody | Apr 24 2013 15:30 utc | 190

the word of the day is, “radical”.
The National/Tribal Security State is functioning typically trough its informal connections, trough social norms and customs, word of mouth, propaganda, perception. Nothing unusual here we are all working in this way. What’s wrong is when it is used as a tool to demonize an enemy in order to murder them. Public is “force feed” with vocabulary and images via media and security reports thus making: Governed by Consensus. All this is what’s make one’s so-called democracy, which is exported as the most deadliest product.
“Radical” migh be one of the tribe’s own. For example William Blum is its report #114 says this:

Yet, when someone like me expresses such sentiments – and I have used the exact same words on occasion – I run the risk of being written off as an “extremist”, a “radical”, and other bad-for-you labels; not long ago it was “commie”.

Obviously, it is matter of manufacturing a threat and an enemies. It is an ideological category that the governing class of NSS to make individuals, group of individuals, or whole nations and whole group of people that belong to certain religious group – Guilt by Association.
A template for “Radicalization” is enacted by New York Police and its commissioner Ray Kelly:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/public_information/NYPD_Report-Radicalization_in_the_West.pdf
Note: the West, not NYT
http://www.law.cuny.edu/academics/clinics/immigration/clear/Mapping-Muslims.pdf

“The report also highlighted “typical signatures” that individuals on a purported trajectory towards violence adopt: wearing traditional Islamic clothing, growing a beard, becoming involved in social activism and community issues, even giving up drinking, cigarettes and gambling. Thus, in addition to social spaces, signs of community mobilization and religious practice were all explicitly designated as potential signs of radicalization and meriting close police surveillance.”

Posted by: neretva’43 | Apr 24 2013 15:56 utc | 191

Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 24 2013 15:56 utc | 192

@190
historically all “terrorist” that Security Services send to blow something up had failed, all. This time to make sure everything is going to be fine they did it themselves.

Posted by: neretva’43 | Apr 24 2013 16:06 utc | 193

191) obviously, when that is the “mapping” they are not going to find much.

Posted by: somebody | Apr 24 2013 16:12 utc | 194

it is how to use the Others.

Posted by: neretva’43 | Apr 24 2013 17:09 utc | 195

US-uk-isr and hangers on, EU, have been working for more than 10 years to create islamic – jihadist terrorism. The surprising thing is that it never really got a great grip, took ages, ppl resisted. Despite 24/24 bombarding by the likes of the BBC.
So a big deal is made of the Boston bombers. Why? Because it is perhaps the first successful example of ppl doing it ‘on their own’. Find their own rationale independently. (Of course influenced by say Alex Jones and Jihadist web sites or whatever.. that is not important…) It was bound to happen eventually. The hoopla is meant to encourage others to similarly attain some kind of fame, visibility, even if only in death. (Like school shooters.) So HUGE media splash. To finally justify the tremendous amount of money invested, all the attempts to create that ‘terrorism’. It worked!
*Finally* !! Ouf!!
Yes, for two lost brothers who set of some lame bombs..
.
And to repeat, yes they set bombs like for a surprise b-day. That is what 10 years of media hype and normalization and encouragement were for. That may seem very strange, but it is a mistake to consider some ppl as having ‘motives’ and being ‘politically oriented’, as adhering to an ‘ideology’, belonging to some ‘nation’ or ‘movement’ etc. That is what the US public is told told to believe – Islam or Chechnya or whatever is to blame.

Posted by: Noirette | Apr 24 2013 17:45 utc | 196

eh Noirette, only 10 years?
“FBI Missed Tamerlan Tsarnaev’s Trip To Russia Because His Name Was Misspelled.”
Mapping…

Posted by: neretva’43 | Apr 24 2013 17:51 utc | 197

196, Noirette, wait till all of this story has come out
Officials: Boston suspects had one gun

WASHINGTON (AP) — Two U.S. officials say investigators in the Boston bombings have recovered only one handgun believed to have been used in a gun battle with police.
One official said the serial number on what they described as a 9 mm pistol was scratched off. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to publicly discuss details of the investigation still in progress.
Tamerlan Tzarnaev (TA’-mehr-luhn tsahr-NEYE’-ehv) died in a shootout with police. His brother, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev (joh-KHAHR’), was later caught hiding in a boat.
Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis says over 250 rounds were fired in the shootout. Police said the men also used explosives. Davis said shots were fired from the boat where Tsarnaev was found. It wasn’t clear whether he was armed when he was captured.
When this is finished Boston police will be a laughing stock.

Posted by: somebody | Apr 24 2013 18:01 utc | 198

did they find…pressure-cookers?

Posted by: neretva’43 | Apr 24 2013 18:23 utc | 199

Sunil Tripathi, person who is wrongly accused as to-be-bomber found dead.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2313870/Sunil-Tripathi-Police-body-missing-college-student-falsely-accused-Boston-Marathon-bomber-internet-sleuths.html#

Posted by: neretva’43 | Apr 24 2013 18:35 utc | 200

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