So The FBI Investigated "The Marathon Bomber" ...
One might guess that the Russians told the FBI to come clean on this issue "or else ..."
FBI Press release: 2011 Request for Information on Tamerlan Tsarnaev from Foreign Government
Once the FBI learned the identities of the two brothers today, the FBI reviewed its records and determined that in early 2011, a foreign government asked the FBI for information about Tamerlan Tsarnaev. The request stated that it was based on information that he was a follower of radical Islam and a strong believer, and that he had changed drastically since 2010 as he prepared to leave the United States for travel to the country’s region to join unspecified underground groups.Some points and questions:In response to this 2011 request, the FBI checked U.S. government databases and other information to look for such things as derogatory telephone communications, possible use of online sites associated with the promotion of radical activity, associations with other persons of interest, travel history and plans, and education history. The FBI also interviewed Tamerlan Tsarnaev and family members. The FBI did not find any terrorism activity, domestic or foreign, and those results were provided to the foreign government in the summer of 2011. The FBI requested but did not receive more specific or additional information from the foreign government.
- The Russians knew for years that the elder brother was radicalizing.
- They told the FBI.
- The FBI investigated him. It talked with the family and the person. (This confirms what the mother and the father said.)
- Did the FBI try to "turn" or entrap him like it did with so many other nuts?
- If not why not?
- If they did turn him did he do their bidding or was he running as a double agent (compare David Headely)?
- The man was in Russia January to July 2012.
- Why wasn't he (or was he?) under observation at that time?
- Did the brothers really do the marathon bombing or were they, like their parents assume, set up as culprids?
The early FBI involvement with the brothers leads to many interesting questions. We can think of a dozen possible conspiracies here. It is unlikely though that we will ever find out which of them is the real one.
Posted by b on April 20, 2013 at 7:14 UTC | Permalink
next page »kind of related, regarding a man many suspect as being similar to David Headley ; MI6 operative Haroon Aswat Britain: Court Blocks Extradition of Mentally Ill Suspect Wanted by U.S.
Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 20 2013 7:58 utc | 2
"I do think it is entirely possible that eventually, their little entrapment game might have gotten ahead of them, and Boston paid the price."
A far simpler answer is that the bombing itself WAS "their little entrapment game"
Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 20 2013 7:59 utc | 3
#3 True. I guess we'll all see how much mileage the govt will get out of this.
It wasn't like a spectacular attack, like 9/11 was.
Posted by: guest | Apr 20 2013 8:20 utc | 4
I'm quite surprised that no one has yet mentioned, if only to point out the slight "irony" (or perhaps "significance" might be a more suitable term) of it's appearance in this place and time, the word "Craft" and other possible meanings of that word.
As in "Craft International" or "The Craft" :)
Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 20 2013 8:29 utc | 5
Glen Beck Gives Obama Till Monday to Admit Boston Bombing was Inside Job
Posted by: hans | Apr 20 2013 8:38 utc | 6
It does not seem to fit in with any US policies
The Washington Post does its best to play any potential meaning down
It might not be as spectacular but could be just as meaningful as 9/11. 9/11 was the beginning of urban warfare in Iraq. The Boston Marathon is the first instance of urban warfare in the US.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 20 2013 8:42 utc | 7
I just love CBS News headline:
FBI interviewed dead Boston bombing suspect years ago
They make it seem as though it was back in the mists of time, instead of being two years ago. So, literally, it's true but they are being very disingenuous.
Posted by: blowback | Apr 20 2013 9:45 utc | 8
#8
Yes it's disingenuous, and in another way as well. The did interview him years ago, the first time they interviewed him. But when was the last? That's the billion dollar question.
Posted by: L Bean | Apr 20 2013 9:50 utc | 9
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamburlaine_%28play%29
Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 20 2013 10:15 utc | 10
9) actually their mother says for five years, the FBI admits to the request of the "foreign government" - because they have to, I guess.
Five years would make sense as the end of Tamerlan's boxing career.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 20 2013 10:20 utc | 11
Tsarnaev's friends were all wealthy and Turkish, Junior said, and drove Range Rovers, Porsche Cayennes and BMWs.On his last visit, the young man was wearing Louis Vuitton shoes and Burberry pants, and wore his hair shorter.
they do not seem to have been available for an interview ...
Posted by: somebody | Apr 20 2013 10:37 utc | 12
"Dzhokhar Tsarnaev"
Just wondering how one might pronounce that first part there.
phonetically, like, I mean.
Any experts in Chechen linguistics lurking out there?
Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 20 2013 10:45 utc | 13
Since 2002, despite the gag orders and attacks, I have been talking about: Central Asia & the Caucasus. I have been talking about our operations-grooming our very own terrorists in that region. I have been talking about Chechnya. In fact, just recently, I talked and talked and talked about it on record.....
Okay. You should have several twos by now to add together later: Main Chechen terror base and HQ in NATO Member and one of the closest US allies in the Middle East Turkey + Network Extension in Germany (NATO), Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates (Two closest US Arab Allies and Pawns) + All the major PNAC –Neoconservative & the New World Order players and operators + the CIA.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 20 2013 11:13 utc | 14
Some facts missed in yesterday's reporting:
- While the two were seen at the marathon so were thousands of others. There has yet to be any witness saying that they laid down some bombs. How are we supposed to know that then?
- There was a claim that a 7/11 was robbed by the brothers. The 7/11 was not robbed at all. Why came this story up and why wasn't it immediately debunkt?
- The dead MIT policeman. We don not know who shoot him or why. There is nothing there yet that proves that the brothers did it.
- The robbed car. Why did they let the driver go? Why at a gas station? To make sure he was to immediately phone up the police? Why tell the driver, as they allegedly did, that they were the marathon bombers? What was the motive to reveal that?
- The car was followed by "GPS". But GPS receivers are a passive system. Was the (expensive) car supplied with a tracker of some kind?
- The alleged throwing of explosives during the gun fight. I can not see or hear any explosions in the two videos (see last thread) of that gun fight.
The police screwed up:
- Lots of police. A car with two men. One man and the car get away after a large gunfight. No blocked off roads? That is pretty screwed up then.
- With all those shots fired why wasn't the man hit enough?
- The lockdown and cordoning of Watertown was handled wrongly and unsuccessful. The guy was hiding outside the cordoned off area. How could he get out? Or why did the cordon miss the street he was actually in?
- The search in Watertown described here seems incompetent.
- The man left a blood trail. How come that wasn't followed by dogs etc?
- The man was found by a citizen only after the lockdown was lifted. Before that the citizen stayed in his house. If he could have searched earlier he might have found the man earlier.
- Why shut down all of Boston at a price of probably $1 billion. Letting one fleeing man shut down a whole city is pretty idiotic. Copycats will love to achieve that again.
- Why deny the man his Miranda rights? Isn't this about "freedom" and "justice"?
Ah Sybil, a highly informative source who has been solidly dependable thus far, and such a . . . . fine . . . linguist into the bargain.
But unfortunately, for me, she has little to say that might help me with my little pronunciation problem.
Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 20 2013 11:57 utc | 16
1) b. there is a witness
The note brought the FBI to Bauman’s bedside in intensive care. He said that a man in sunglasses and a black baseball hat had come up to him as he was waiting to see his girlfriend finish the Boston Marathon. The man had gazed straight at him and placed a black backpack at his feet and walked off. The bag had exploded minutes later.
I guess they did it, just like Mohamed Merah did it. What made them do it, who might have lit the fuse, is another issue. If they had been innocently set up the first sensible move would have been to go to a lawyer and put down a statement. They spent two days knowing what was coming doing nothing.
The story is full of wholes. My guess is they were used. Maybe someone promised them protection.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 20 2013 12:06 utc | 17
"So The FBI Investigated "The Marathon Bomber" ..."
Funny article, it is written in propagandist manner. Full of abstractions and After the Fact questions, another term is "analysis". Just as Hannah Arendt predicted and wrote about it. Nazi order is well and live.
As for so-called Miranda right, you are going to like it b they are "invoking a public safety exception"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/19/miranda-rights-boston-bombing-suspect_n_3120333.html
Legal and human right of Muslims are expandable. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods (Gladio is just EU variant of Northwood) is never ceased to exist. Difference is the US is going trough what is known as Foucauldian Boomerangs, i.e. when Baghdad, Jakarta, Santiago de Chile, Buenos Aires etc. arrives at your door. Aimé Césaire:
And then one fine day the bourgeoisie is awakened by a terrific boomerang effect: the gestapos are busy, the prisons fill up, the torturers standing around the racks invent, refine, discuss.People are surprised, they become indignant. They say: "How strange! But never mind - it's Nazism, it will pass!" And they wait, and they hope; and they hide the truth from themselves, that it is barbarism, the supreme barbarism, the crowning barbarism that sums up the daily barbarisms; that it is Nazism, yes, but that before they were its victims, they were its accomplices; that they tolerated that Nazism before it was inflicted on them, that they absolved it, shut their eyes to it, legitimized it, because, until then, it had been applied only to non-European peoples; that they have cultivated that Nazism, that they are responsible for it, and that before engulfing the whole edifice of Western, Christian civilization in its reddened waters, it oozes, seeps and trickles from every crack.
Sen. Lindsey Graham used a term: "battlefield" it is also variant of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlespace.
Posted by: neretva'43 | Apr 20 2013 12:26 utc | 18
When they found that guy in the boat he was "uncommunicative". I understand that to mean that he was nearly dead and couldn't react. There was no fight when he was arrested.
it is getting more detailed
Tsarnaev, it turned out, had fled to a house that was just outside that search zone. By 6 p.m., authorities conceded that they hadn’t found him and couldn’t be sure where he was.They lifted the order to stay home. Just after that, the resident in Watertown walked outside and saw the blood. A police helicopter used infrared technology to spot movement underneath the plastic cover.
Inside was Tsarnaev, who had been wounded by the firefight hours earlier. He may have been wounded again by the exchange of gunfire with officers who surrounded the boat.
Officers tried to negotiate his surrender. There was no response. Finally, a robot dragged back the cover, and the SWAT team pulled him out. He had injuries to the leg and neck.
At this stage it does not matter, if they read him his rights or not. He will need a long time to wake up and it is doubtful he will remember much.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 20 2013 13:24 utc | 20
hmmm the media does not seem to be able to agree on fact or fiction - in this account Tsernaev leaves the boat on his own
In a photo of authorities apprehending Dzhokhar released Friday, a SWAT team medic can be seen administering an “ambu” resuscitation bag to assist him in his breathing. Another photo shows Dzhokhar climbing out of the boat under his own power, following the commands of the HRT (Hostage Rescue Team), and Miller said it is clear from the images that, “this is a guy who was very weak at this point and probably — had he not been discovered — he might not have lived.”
so whatever :-))
Posted by: somebody | Apr 20 2013 14:17 utc | 21
@ l bean 9
NBC said that the FBI interviewed him after his return from the Caucasus last year.
Naretva 43
Lindsay Graham sees battlefields everywhere because he sees everything though a prism of 'with me or against me'. Like an Amway salesman who starts seeing everyone they know as a sale.
Posted by: heath | Apr 20 2013 14:18 utc | 22
@ somebody
At this point, its probably better if he is too badly injured to answer cos you now they are going to use that 'public safety' clause to the absolute limits.
Posted by: heath | Apr 20 2013 14:23 utc | 23
@1 "Maybe they lost track of the two of them, and know this was a possibility."
Lost track of them? You're kidding, right?
Posted by: kalithea | Apr 20 2013 14:25 utc | 24
http://i.imgur.com/0U0ozqt.jpg
Tamerlan Tsarnaev body. EXTREMELY GRAPHIC!
Posted by: neretva'43 | Apr 20 2013 14:46 utc | 25
the family is doing a pretty good job
The uncle of the Boston Marathon bombing suspects told TODAY Saturday that he believes Dzhokar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev were pawns in a deadly scheme."I strongly believe they were just puppets and executors of something of bigger scale," Ruslan Tsarni told Savannah Guthrie.
In other news the FBI is questioning roommates/the girlfriend and I suspect drugs are involved, too.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 20 2013 15:06 utc | 26
What a lunacy. Wonder who is scriptwriter?
On Thursday evening, authorities released photos of two men spotted carrying backpacks near the Marathon’s finish line. These were apparently the Tsarnaevs, though authorities did not say that at the time--and, perhaps, did not know it at all.Their targets, it turned out, had not fled the city or the country. A few hours later, they began a violent spree just across the Charles River in Cambridge.
At about 10:30 p.m., authorities said, the two shot and killed MIT Police officer Sean Collier, 26, as Collier sat in his cruiser. It was unclear what triggered that shooting: authorities said surveillance video appears to show the two approaching Collier and killing him without warning.
After that, the men allegedly carjacked a Mercedes sport utility vehicle, and took the driver with them. At least one brother told the carjacked driver that they were the marathon bombers. They forced the driver to stop at several bank machines, and took $800 that he withdrew. After a few minutes, the man was left behind at a gas station, unharmed. It was unclear if he escaped, or was let go.
From there, the brothers drove about three miles, throwing explosives out the window at police. In Watertown, they engaged in a shootout with police, in which at least 200 rounds were fired.
Authorities said that Tamarlan Tsarnaev left the car at one point, and attempted to throw an explosive at officers. The device, however, went off in his hand. Police then tackled the wounded suspect in the street. Then, authorities said, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev--still behind the wheel of a car, swerved at the officers in an effort to hit them.
The officers dodged. Tamerlan did not. He was dragged under the car, and later died at a Boston hospital. In the same confrontation, a Boston Transit police officer was also shot and wounded. {{Officials later identified the officer as Richard H. Donahue, 33, who was treated at Mt. Auburn Hospital and released.
Dzhokhar Tsarnaev escaped. Police later conceded that there were not enough officers to establish a perimeter. The teenager is believed to have fled on foot: police found a small blood trail, indicating he was injured.
Then he vanished.
Posted by: neretva'43 | Apr 20 2013 15:24 utc | 27
Thanks, b, for the professional digging.
I change my assumption from yesterday - but only slightly.
Please note that those guys wanted to *travel abroad* to potentially engage in terrorism.
Interesting. As I said, they didn't want to engage against the usa whom they had lots of reasons to love. One of them enjoying a scholarship and studying to become a brain surgeon. The other one a boxer - i.e. a sportsman - stricing to fight for the usa team.
Why in hell should they act against what they perceived as their country? And then, at a sports-event ...
But also: Why would they want to leave their warm nest and travel back to countries like chechenia to engage in terrorism? Why would a want to become brain surgeon do that? Unless, of course, they had reason to believe that "their country", the usa, wanted them to. Which might answer the question what that fbi counselling was all about ...
And it might also explain the second neon-blinking factor: The man hunt, the closing down a major city.
As far as I'm concerned, Boston wasn't closed down for the man hunt of terrorists - it was closed down, because those 2 guys could not be allowed to speak to anyone but in a "controlled environment". This wasn't about the protection of citizens but about the protection of something dirty, and for that matter something big on the side of the authorities.
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Apr 20 2013 15:59 utc | 28
GlobalResearch, Apr 17, 2013
The Boston Bombings in Context: How the FBI Fosters, Funds and Equips American TerroristsAs data continues to pour in regarding the bombing and who may be behind it, it is instructive to take a moment to step back and consider this knee-jerk tendency to conclude that this is the work of Islamic radicals. In the minds of millions of Americans, bombs targeting innocents on US soil are inextricably linked with the image of the bearded, turban-wearing boogeyman that has become the shorthand for evil in this age of terror.
This association is not only incorrect, it is dangerously incorrect because it signally fails to identify the one unifying thread between all of the recent terror plots in the US. Lurking behind the shadowy armies of would-be jihadis in the popular imagination is the sober reality that every single major terror bust in the United States since 9/11 has sourced back to the same group, a single entity that has in every single case funded, equipped and even incited the would-be terrorists into action: the FBI. . .
The crowds cheered when news of the final suspects capture was announced. The sheep have spoken, the conspiracy worked and the people have absorbed the deception.
Posted by: Fernando | Apr 20 2013 16:29 utc | 30
How was the FBI able to identify Tamerlan Tsarnaev, a man in sunglasses and a black baseball hat, from a photograph?
Daily Beast, Apr 19
*The note brought the FBI to Bauman’s bedside in intensive care. He said that a man in sunglasses and a black baseball hat had come up to him as he was waiting to see his girlfriend finish the Boston Marathon. The man had gazed straight at him and placed a black backpack at his feet and walked off. The bag had exploded minutes later.*With the description, the FBI searched surveillance video and the digital images sent in by the public until they found a “person of interest” in a black hat and black jacket, a black backpack on both shoulders.
*They would subsequently identify him as 26-year-old Tamerlan Tsarnaev, an ethnic Chechen
* A YouTube account in the name “Tamerlan Tsarnaev” posted a playlist he named “Terrorists” and “liked” Islamic militant videos. He complained that “there are no values any more.”
Possibly they already knew him.
Was it a set-up gone awry?
InfoWars, Apr 17
Boston Marathon eyewitness and running participant Alastair Stevenson. . . has confirmed. . . that drills were taking place the morning of the Boston Marathon complete with bomb squads and rooftop snipers.
“At the start at the event, at the Athlete’s Village, there were people on the roof looking down onto the Village at the start. There were dogs with their handlers going around sniffing for explosives, and we were told on a loud announcement that we shouldn’t be concerned and that it was just a drill. And maybe it was just a drill, but I’ve never seen anything like that — not at any marathon that I’ve ever been to. You know, that just concerned me that that’s the only race that I’ve seen in my life where they had dogs sniffing for explosions, and that’s the only place where there had been explosions.”
There was an article that appeared back in February of this year in the Folha De S. Paulo. The article stressed that reporters from the paper held interviews with
gunmen from Chechenya and Kosovo along the Turkish borders. These men were going to be hired to fight with Al-Qaeda linked Al-jabhat al-Nusra. I mention this article to support the documented fact that camps in Kosovo and other Euroasians states have been penetrated by various factions of Western and Middle Eastern interests since the 1980s with the Mujahideen in Afghanistan. Turkey is a part of this interest. These so-called terrorists cells are nothing more than an upgrade of the program that was instituted during the Cold War called Gladio. What we saw in Boston this week, in my opinion (for what it's worth), is activity of an upgrade of Operation Gladio called Gladio B. I used the label, "Gladio B", an term introduced by Sibel Edmond. From the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, 911, mass shootings, and yes, the bombing of the Boston Marathon, these horrific events were the handiwork of Gladio B. If we are to understand these events and make some since of these diabolic actions, then we need to examine our own intelligence and military institutions and perhaps some of our allies in Turkey and the Middle East too.
Posted by: Andre E. Williams | Apr 20 2013 16:54 utc | 33
@15 Exactly. There is no explanation whatsoever! Just a short Schnipsel showing ppl walking around! Or were they walking in a distinct terroristic manner?!
Posted by: Kal | Apr 20 2013 16:56 utc | 34
The Syria connection -- how will it play out?
Mar 6, 2013
Syria War: Rebels Joined By Chechnya Islamic Militants In 'Jihad' Against Assad
MOSCOW/BEIRUT, March 6 (Reuters) - Flanked by almost 20 men with rifles, Omar Abu al-Chechen kneels on a carpet and delivers a rousing speech urging fellow Muslims to support the 'jihad' against Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. Dressed almost entirely in black, the militant from Russia's Chechnya region declares an Islamist state is within reach. Fellow fighters from the brigade of foreign militants he leads translate his Russian words into Arabic.
Apr 19, 2013
Obama, after Boston bombing, thanks Putin for Russian cooperation
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama thanked Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday for Moscow's close cooperation on counterterrorism after the Boston Marathon bombings, and they agreed to continue working together on security issues.
Apr 20, 2013
Russia 'out of step' with history: Syrian opposition
BEIRUT: Syria's main opposition National Coalition said on Saturday that Russia was "out of step" with history for backing President Bashar al-Assad's regime and was isolating itself on the international scene.
There is a pretty convincing summary for this being a FBI sting operation here
"They were controlling him, they were controlling his every step," indeed. Posing as "extremist leaders" and leading witless patsies along, just as the FBI has done in every case regarding its previous "foiled plots," and even successful plots, like the 1993 WTC attack, should shift America's attention not to Chechnya or the "threat" of domestic terrorism, but the immense incompetence and/or criminality of the FBI. As even mainstream sources concede the FBI had some sort of relationship with the Boston bombing suspects before the attack, there will be two arguments made. One, that the FBI simply doesn't have enough authority or resources to prevent "domestic terror" attacks, and needs more still. The other argument is that the FBI and other federal agencies have been behind every domestic terror attack or "foiled plot" for years, and constitutes the single greatest danger to the American people, both literally in terms of life and limb, and in terms of subverting and stripping away their liberty and dignity amidst a growing police state.In turn, this would require local law enforcement to cease all cooperation with the FBI, particularly with its Joint Terror Task Force (JTTF), raid local offices and make arrests where appropriate, and fold any agents who are willing and capable, into local and state agencies. In essence, the FBI should be dismantled from top to bottom, and an alternative put in its place.
What is clear is that the Boston bombing suspects were contacted by the FBI at least as early as 2011. Between then and the attack, there is a gap where the FBI may or may not have been involved. While the FBI may have in fact been cultivating these suspects prior to the Boston bombing, they are now the very ones "investigating" the case, opening the door to the destruction of evidence, and ultimately a coverup.
What's more, there's most likely several more of these operations being engineered right now by the FBI. If America is serious about stopping "the next Boston bombing," the key is not issuing the FBI and its federal affiliates more authority and funding, but issuing local law enforcement warrants to raid FBI offices.
While the people of Boston allegedly take to the streets to "celebrate" the capture of the remaining Boston bombing suspect, celebrations should turn to outrage as details emerge that yet another terror attack in America, which has claimed innocent lives, was the work not of cave dwelling militants abroad, but by the very people we foolishly entrust with our safety and security at home.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 20 2013 17:54 utc | 39
Tyranny is what men prefer to freedom. Fear is the best tool for tyrants. I must say I was struck by 1984 aspect of the pseudo-Emmanuel Goldstein witch hunt. The criminal secret sect within the secret state requires blood to thrive, like a deranged vampire thousands of years old the State lives to suck the life-force from it's victims.
Posted by: Publius | Apr 20 2013 18:14 utc | 40
The "foreign government" is confirmed to be Russia. Why wasn't Russia named to begin with?
Apr 20, 2013
Russia asked FBI to investigate Tamerlan Tsarnaev in 2011 – report
Russia asked the FBI to investigate Boston bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev in 2011, a source in US law enforcement told Reuters. The FBI had earlier reported on its website that an unnamed ‘foreign government’ had asked them for information.
http://rt.com/news/fbi-tsarnaev-foreign-request-150/
For your amusement or edification...
Sibel Edmonds talks about Gladio B
Posted by: Uncle $cam | Apr 20 2013 22:13 utc | 42
CBSNews, Apr 20
Boston bombing suspect: Enemy combatant or criminal?
At issue: should 19 year-old Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be treated as an enemy combatant and questioned by interrogators without any right to due process? Or should the government read Tsarnaev his Miranda rights, notifying him of his right to remain silent as a criminal defendant, among other prerogatives? . ."Every day we face threats from radical Islamists and they are coming through our back yard and trying to radicalize American citizens," [Senator] Graham added. "The reason we wanted to capture him alive is find out about the attack and find out who he trained with and what connections" he had to terrorists.
Enemy combatant is a term historically referring to members of the armed forces of the state with which another state is at war, but with the Global War on Terror that means all terrorists, by whatever definition, qualify for royal treatment such as being whisked off to a military prison and tortured.
Jacob Hornberger: The war on terror's iron fist unleashed itself on an American citizen named José Padilla, whom U.S. officials arrested on American soil and accused of being a terrorist. Federal officials did not indict Padilla, prosecute him, or convict him, at least not at first. Instead, U.S. military officials took control over him and denied him any right to speak to an attorney, family, or friends. The U.S. attorney general announced to the American people that Padilla was an illegal “enemy combatant” in the “war on terror.” For three years, Padilla was held in military custody.
Don Bacon...I do not know who you are, but your posts are shallow, to be polite.
"Enemy combatant" is internal designation of the U.S., and "historically" means invented by F.D.R. during WWII. Rule of Law and various legal acts as implemented in the U.S. are instruments of fear and oppression; or in general Law itself is class category.
There is no such thing per ICRC or UN, or anywhere else for that matter. In normal countries there is Prisoner of War which should be treated according to conventions of ICRC and UN rules. In the U.S. they conflated everything in one obscure and expandable term of "Enemy Combatant".
Posted by: neretva'43 | Apr 20 2013 23:16 utc | 44
Only a matter of time before government monitored security cameras, placed prolifically throughout our public environment, are being forcefully marketed as a necessary means through which to "protect" us. I'm suprised the marketing campaign isn't in full swing already. Trust me, its coming, soon. The FBI photos of the two "suspects" are being touted as a major factor in their apprehension. In fact, however, it seems thier own alleged actions subsequent to the bombing were the factors behind thier apprehension, rather than being fingered by members of the public who had seen the images.
I don't buy all this "government conspiracy" business about this particular event. No doubt it will be used to further our fall into the grip of a truly fascist state, but I think that rather than a scripted event, it is an event that will be nefariously capitalized upon by the scum in Washington DC.
Posted by: PissedOffAmerican | Apr 20 2013 23:23 utc | 45
@45
The security camera marketing effort is in full swing. Probably its most extensive use, I'm told, is in gambling casinos where the management takes a particular interest in certain patrons, lest the casino lose money. When a suspect walks in the front door a surveillance person puts his finger on the guy's image, and then all the cameras in the casino will, when the guy appears, track his every movement. I suppose there are facial and movement recognition (as with drone "signature strikes") capabilities also.
That same capabilities might be used in whole cities, on pedestrians and vehicles (with plate recognition). There's probably little active government monitoring now, only private & public taping for later viewing, but the casino model might be coming as you suggest.
@32 To be fair, if the authorities want to run a drill then there isn't much point doing it when the streets are empty; you want to run that drill when A Big Event is on.
And the fact that marathon runners haven't seen such drills before may mean nothing other than that such drills are very expensive in terms of money and manpower, ergo, the authorities don't do them very often.
Look, the coincidence of the Boston authorities running a bomb-sniffing drill during the one Marathon where a bomb goes off *should* make you stop and go "Hmmmmmm", but sometimes coincidences are just.... coincidences.
Posted by: Johnboy | Apr 21 2013 0:30 utc | 48
The Yankees finally realised that the only thing their North Korea SNAFU was going to produce was an embarrassing confrontation with China and more humiliating blowback (of the glow-in-the dark variety) than they could make sound like a good idea. So they got the FBI to play the Collective Self-pity Card - and now everyone is happy (being miserable and confused) again.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Apr 21 2013 0:33 utc | 49
The latest news is that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, aged 19, will be questioned by a special interrogation team for high-value suspects. He will be questioned, when he's able, under the public safety exception which not only permits the unwarned questioning of a suspect, but also allows the government to introduce any statement yielded by such interrogation as evidence in court.
However, according to FoxNews, the exception lasts only 48 hours and should be extended by declaring Tsarnaev a potential enemy combatant, under the Law of War, Republican Sens. Lindsey Graham, South Carolina; John McCain, Arizona; and Kelly Ayotte, New Hampshire, said in a statement Saturday. They were joined by New York Republican Rep. Peter King.
What motivates an ethnic Chechen teenager to kill and injure Americans? -- Inquiring senatorial minds want to know. They really want to know.
But I suspect it's not much different from the motivations that American teens (in uniform) have to kill Iraqis and Afghans. First, teens' brains aren't fully developed. So they can be easily influenced by their elders, be it the government or an older brother or anyone. They're quite useful in that regard.
So big whoop. Let the questioning begin.
One thing is clear, slinging mud. It cant be home, it must be external of any other origin , better a muslin, a Russian, even if a chicom could be in the pot all the better. I wake up with a problem, and then give thought to who as I have many who's then I know i am part of the problem. The only solution is fixing self and accepting the fact. I still cant get my head around 2 people, one a kid at heart locking down Boston, just what would a gang do if they so did desire? Lastly the only native AMERICA is the Indian and a genocide act silenced their rights.
Posted by: kev | Apr 21 2013 2:13 utc | 51
@44 "There is no such thing per ICRC or UN, or anywhere else for that matter."
Hmm, I'm not sure that claim is true.
The Hague Regulations 1907 has this to say:
Article 3: The armed forces of the belligerent parties may consist of combatants and non-combatants. In the case of capture by the enemy, both have a right to be treated as prisoners of war.
So international humanitarian law definitely does recognize the legal concept of a "combatant", and since that article is dealing with the capture of combatants by "the enemy" then I would suggest that an inescapable conclusion is that Article 3 is acknowledging the existence of "enemy combatants".
What Article 3 means is this: if you designate someone to be an "enemy combatant" then you must treat them as a "prisoner of war" when you capture them.
Which, of course, the US government has no intention of doing.
So the problem isn't so much that the US government has a designation that it calls "enemy combatant" - that's a perfectly legal construct in int'l law - so much as it then treats any such person *as* *if* they were something quite different i.e. "unlawful combatants".
The two phrases are not the same, so I don't know why the US Government and the MSM pretend they are talking about the one when they are really referring to the other.
Posted by: Johnboy | Apr 21 2013 2:41 utc | 52
The cispa bill is now being driven on the Boston bombings. By the house of rep 288 to 127, pretty fast huh!
Posted by: kev | Apr 21 2013 3:01 utc | 53
All this legalese, even though it favors governments, is pretty much why the U.S. has given up capturing suspects, lest it end up with innocents imprisoned forever without any due process. (Gitmo) for lack of evidence. Now it just kills them instead. Obviously they have other objectives in this case, and will probably benefit from a bedside confession as soon as he can talk. He has a throat injury.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/20/us/boston-attack/index.html
The surviving suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings suffered an injury to
his throat and may not be able to talk, a federal official told CNN on
Saturday, possibly hindering attempts by authorities to question him about a motive in the attack.
Posted by: Paul | Apr 21 2013 3:17 utc | 55
The Wako fire, 14 deaths, off the radar, fertilizer is used in bombs. , just a thought. Very little has been proven to pressure cooker bombs, likewise in escape reports one was throwing explosives, something does not gel here. Why make low grade explosions if you have high grade materials?
Posted by: kev | Apr 21 2013 3:18 utc | 56
Guess he will have burst ear drums, eye damage and burned finger or shot while escaping. With this type of case one never gets to see the closure, of truth, root cause etc, most are just happy to hear the closure , period, out of sight out of mind.
Posted by: kev | Apr 21 2013 3:25 utc | 57
Center for Constitutional Rights
Our thoughts go out to the friends and families of victims of these horrific bombings. While it is difficult to turn to points of law in times of tragedy, those are, in fact, the times we most need to cling to the values, laws and rights that make us who we are as a nation.
The Miranda warnings were put in place because police officers were beating and torturing "confessions" out of people who hadn't even been formally accused of a crime. We cannot afford to repeat our mistakes. If officials require suspects to incriminate themselves, they are making fair trials and due process merely option and not a requirement. To venture down that road again will make law enforcement accountable to no one.
Like Obama's expanded killing program and his perpetuation of indefinite detention without trial at Guantanamo, this is yet another erosion of the Constitution to lay directly at the President's feet. Obama's Justice Department unilaterally expanded the "public safety exception" to Miranda in 2010 beyond anything the Supreme Court ever authorized. Each time the administration use this exception, it stretches wider and longer. However horrific the crime, continuing to erode constitutional rights invites continued abuse by law enforcement, and walks us down a dangerous path that becomes nearly impossible to reverse.
If Dzhokhar Tsarnaev can't talk he can still communicate in other ways.
@1 "Maybe they lost track of the two of them, and know this was a possibility."
Lost track of them? You're kidding, right?
No, I'm not kidding. I'll say right out that I do not believe that the FBI would purposefully set off a bomb at the Boston Marathon (the CIA on the other hand...?). Thats what I think at this point, take it or leave it. I base it simply on having seen large organizations at work, and any kind of failure is generally "bad for business" from the leaders of that organizations perspective. I just kind of think that any kind of terrorist success just breeds more terrorist success, makes our "protectors" look like incompetent failures. Someone deeper in may be making them look bad, but they wouldn't do it to themselves, I'm saying. I won't argue if you call me naive, I'll just ask you to honestly make a case that I'm wrong.
What we have seen the FBI do though is to put up these scam jobs - radicalize some guys, give them a target, set them up with equipment and training - and then bust them at the last moment. Seems clear that they do it so they can say "look at us, the saviors of America" while at the same time perpetuating the idea that we are under threat.
What I'm suggesting here is that you had these two guys who got this game run on them, but at the last moment (remember, these are brothers, this is one of the ultimate bonds of trust and must have had plenty of opportunity to discuss everything together away from the watchful eye of any "accomplices" - ie, they weren't reliant on their handler to the degree the other FBI patsies were) they said fuck the handler (perhaps even guessing he was FBI) and set out on their own.
This is pure speculation of course. But it follows that if they broke contact, then the FBI knew they were out there, and they knew the target. Hence the "drills" and bomb dogs. But here is where it gets sticky - If that'd happened, the FBI could have cancelled the marathon. They didn't. Again, big orgs being what they are, maybe someone made the call that doing that would be unacceptable for political reasons (ie, they'd have to explain A LOT, and publicly), so instead of doing the right thing, they over-confidently hoped they could catch them before they struck with these "drills" and the Craft guys.
I'm just speculating that these two outsmarted their handlers, and instead of the FBI owning up to their failure they tried to do a CYA which got people killed.
I guess it sounds like I'm saying "it was all a big misunderstanding" but I'm not. I'm saying that this is the result of the unbridled powers we've let lose in our country. It has lead to a situation where we are allowing people to engage in completely cockamamie practices (like creating terror attacks to "stop" terror). It is leading to a situation of shielding incompetent moves like this.
If I'm right, then we've just seen a display of the dangers of giving mere mortals absolute powers. I'm thinking less "1984" and more "Catch-22" on this one. If the king was infallible, you wouldn't need a jury. If the FBI weren't a bunch of total creeps, you could trust them NOT to do stuff like this, but, if I'm right, they have fucked up big time. But since we've given up our rights to limit their power, they will use their powers not only to fuck up mightily, but to cover it up and get away with it.
As for "Freedom and Justice" you can forget about that. This guy will be used to prove to many a red state soul that Obama isn't the kind of pussy who uses the criminal justice system for people who "hate America". I'm assuming their getting a torture chamber with his name on it prepared at Guantanamo.
Posted by: guest | Apr 21 2013 4:17 utc | 59
@48
To be fair, if the authorities want to run a drill then there isn't much point doing it when the streets are empty; you want to run that drill when A Big Event is on...sometimes coincidences are just.... coincidences.
That's reasonable. And it should be easy to prove (presuming the question makes it out of internet message boards and into the media or congressional inquiry). All we need a FOIA request to see the planning documents related to the drill.
This event needs, like all similar events, to be taken apart piece by piece and bit by bit. I don't want to hear this "Law enforcement did a great job" shit (not hearing it from you, but saw it all over the news). Clearly they didn't. Three people are dead, seven are missing limbs, and a hundred others were wounded.
Posted by: guest | Apr 21 2013 4:32 utc | 60
59, That was my first thought too. Typical FBI fake sting that got flipped. This time the "terrorists" wasn't a mental defective with a double digit IQ, and his little brother was by all accounts very above average in that department.
So. Maybe the older brother played along with his handler(s) for a while because he was scared(who wouldn't be? It's not like you'd have anyone to run to in this situation - the media? LOL). He probably told his little bro all about the FBI surveillance and coercion and ... this is where my gut feeling takes over ... the younger brother has an epiphany, as many smart people at that age do, that the US government is actually not a benevolent entity. From then on they act in concert as close brothers do, but out of conniving anger. One or both of them may had even been aware of the previous fake FBI stings. It wouldn't be a stretch at all that Dzokhar may have been even more politically/historically aware than his older brother. I know I was at that age so it's not impossible.
Tamerlan was unemployed, or at least underemployed, and no matter how he perceives "Americans" he may have only recently realized that success here wasn't inevitable. Maybe they felt they could milk the FBI for cash for a while.
Of course theis scenario still doesn't explain away the inconvenient facts of the day. Why didn't they have an escape plan? They certainly knew it would be this or death, and they weren't suicide bombers, so... And why didn't the Craft guys see him place that bag? They were feet away, looking right at the bomb site, presumably. Well they were feet away up until the last minutes at least.
Why the FUCK won't the FBI release the video they claim to have? They even released a pic of Dzokhar right at the bomb site, but no proof of him placing the bag. Why not, if they have it, as they claim? Why not disambiguate the backpack info - where is Dzokhar's light-colored backpack?
Posted by: L Bean | Apr 21 2013 5:01 utc | 61
The whole "Shut down 1/4 of a US state" does seem a bit like the kind of "WE'RE ARE SOOOOO FUCKING CRAZY RESPONSIBLE!!!!" over-correction that might be made when they could have just, you know, shutdown the marathon.
Posted by: guest | Apr 21 2013 5:15 utc | 62
The FBI runs a website telling kids to fight in Syria just to arrest them when they try
61) The whole thing does not make sense, from the psychology of it, everything. It is possible to kill your colleagues out of hatred in a suicide kind of way - if you are an isolated loner, they were not, the young one was popular and the older one married with a kid, going to the gymn and the mosque - which is quite a community.
They obviously had a problem getting money and they were into expensive stuff, the younger one was into drugs. It is probable they had FBI handlers who where trying to control the campus scene through them. It is possible they felt safe from prosecution because of that. And it is possible they panicked when they realized they would be found.
Boston citizens should grill the FBI as obviously it was a huge blunder by all accounts. Publishing those pictures to hunt guys they could find in their files, their agents knew about, meant endangering the public in a big way.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 21 2013 5:37 utc | 63
It's simply amazing.
No matter what these scum get caught doing, there's always some idiot out there ready to leap to their defence and state: "But the [insert 3 letter Gov't agency of your choice] would do anything like that!!".
Such statements are of course based on nothing at all but the persons utterly childish view of the world, where 3-letter Gov't agencies actually supposedly give a flying fuck about the public, or how they might react.
Seriously - naive doesn't even begin to describe people like you - in fact YOU are the problem. People like YOU are the reason they get away with this, each and every time.
Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 21 2013 5:44 utc | 64
@guest #59
Yeah, we know the FBI has set up a lot of people, and it could be that this time they slipped the leash and actually did it. Could be.
Regarding the places of people in institutions, there doesn't have to be an element of institutional success. It's The Iron Law Of Institutions
The Iron Law of Institutions is: the people who control institutions care first and foremost about their power within the institution rather than the power of the institution itself. Thus, they would rather the institution "fail" while they remain in power within the institution than for the institution to "succeed" if that requires them to lose power within the institution.-- Jonathan Schwarz
The Onion
FBI: 'You Know You’re Desperate When You’re Asking The American People For Help'
WASHINGTON—Saying that the last thing he ever wanted to do was ask “311 million mouth-breathing morons” for help, the Federal Bureau of Investigation freely admitted Thursday that by enlisting the services of the American people in apprehending the Boston Marathon bombers, the government agency had reached a new level of desperation. “Clearly I never wanted this to get to a point where I would have to stand here, hat in hand, asking the same group of people who make The Voice the No. 1 show on television for their help,” a visibly deflated FBI Special Agent in Charge Rick DesLauriers said during a press conference, after which he sighed, put up the FBI’s toll-free number, and said, “Have at it, idiots.” “But this is where we’re at. I can’t believe I’m actually going to say these words, but America, we need you.” Sources later confirmed that after listening to the first 10 calls made by American citizens into the FBI, investigators had reportedly disconnected the number and were asking citizens of Sweden and Germany if they knew anything about the two bombing suspects.
Ad "enemy combattant":
What the usa tries is to invent a third category that basically has no rights. That's of course bullshit. And btw. the raison d'etre of that illegal construct was simply americas desire to bluntly ignore any third countries souvereignty and to forcefully (and illegaly) dictate to it's liking.
The problem was that anyone attacking the usa in a third country (with which the usa is not in war) falls under the jurisdiction of that third country (which itself is bound by international law to certain standards). That's what the usa wasn't liking and that's what they invented the pseudo-legal construct of enemy combattant (which just came in handy later e.g. in the context of torture).
Ad "running a drill":
No, sorry, that doesn't hold. Crowd psychology is a complex thing and operations like bomb explosions (real or fake ones) can create considerable danger and harm in a crowd.
Informing the citizens in advance the police actually took the worst of various options. As they could not inform *everyone there*, they worked with a basically unknown sample; if for their drill the factor "crowd" played a role per se. Furthermore in terms of crowd there wasn't anything to learn anymore like that.
If, which seems probable under different circumstances, the crowd factor was simply to have the bomb drill under more difficult conditions then they could - and should - as well train with a "crowd" of their own like off-duty officers or alike.
Most importantly though, that drill was simply unprofessional und plain stupid. When dealing with large groups of people one priority is to *avoid* further risks and to exclude as many problematic factors as possible.
One example for the importance of this rule is that during a bomb drill many people will call the emergency services to report what they think is real. And no, it's not good enough to inform the 911 center in advance. Because those calls bind capacitites anyway, because people do not give precise and complete information, because it creates legal risks, etc.
One can be pretty sure that that bomb drill was *not* the idea of the Boston police but that it came from outside and from some party having either lots of political weight or being a superior office (e.g. dhs or fbi).
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Apr 21 2013 6:04 utc | 68
@Mr. Pragma #68
Your third category is "unlawful enemy combatants," persons who take up arms without authority of a
sovereign and who do not comply with the law of armed conflict, the legal definition.
@64
Every post of yours is some moronic Non sequitur with no content, including your latest. I said "I don't believe based on this that and that" and you replied a whole lot of fucking nothing. I didn't say they give a fuck about us, they give a fuck about their positions of power. I know you're more interested in having some pathetic circle jerk than solving an actual crime, but the rest of us are asking questions and trying to piece together a coherent narrative of an important current event here.
The only "statements based on nothing at all but the persons utterly childish view of the world" are your baseless misreadings burbling out of that nerve knot that passes as your brain. Grow the fuck up or shut the fuck up.
Posted by: guest | Apr 21 2013 6:38 utc | 70
@64
I'm sorry, in my last post where I called you a vacuous moron and complete asshole, I meant "I won't argue if you call me naive, I'll just ask you to honestly make a case that I'm wrong."
So go ahead.
if you have some proof... no, that's too much to... if you have a compelling theory... no, okay, that's a bridge too far... if you have even some half worked out reasoning... hell, I'll take a brain fart if that is more your style... as to why the FBI would, in its official capacity, blow up the Boston Marathon and look like complete incompetent fucks AND invite "unofficial" copy cat attacks when they could have simply grabbed two morons by the scruff of the neck and loudly proclaimed, once again, that they have saved America, please let us all know. In any case, I'll keep on working on my theory that the FBI are, actually, incompetent fucks who got Americans killed and maimed.
Posted by: guest | Apr 21 2013 6:58 utc | 71
Seems the trail leeds to Kazakhstan - msm is very quiet about this
Earlier Saturday afternoon, a silver mini-van with consulate license plates arrived at the Carriage Drive apartment along with the FBI and Homeland Security, and stayed a half an hour longer than the agents.The van left with two women, neither of whom appeared to be restrained. One was carrying a pink backpack as she exited the apartment and ran into the van, which sped away as the women told reporters they did not wish to comment.
Efforts by The Standard-Times to identify the van’s consulate did not provide any answers, and the FBI spokeswoman had no information about it. A U.S. Department of State spokeswoman said her agency was “not privy” to the investigation and referred The Standard-Times back to the FBI.
Officials arrested three individuals, including one woman, in New Bedford, Massachusetts Friday in connection with the Boston Marathon bombing.
These would be the Turkish friends with posh cars the garage owner was talking about.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 21 2013 8:13 utc | 72
a very reasonable account of what happened by Boston citizen living in the area describing the incredible inefficiency of the Boston police in the "hunt", plus the information that presumably the MIT officer was killed by someone else who also robbed a shop.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 21 2013 9:30 utc | 73
"solving an actual crime,"
Sherlock Holmes . . . Come on Down!!!
Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 21 2013 10:23 utc | 74
Incompetence Theorists™®
predictable as the tides
Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 21 2013 10:30 utc | 75
L Bean @61 "Why didn't they have an escape plan?"
I do not believe they were involved in any way!
This was The Sacrifice of a Scapegoats in ritual presented by Security State.First off, what makes you believe that is them who did it all this? Because TNYT say so, or the FBI? Because Jeff Bauman said so in hospital bed stoned of drugs, barely have a conscience according to his brother!? Is there is one single evidence that made them as culprit of this fiasco. I couldn't find one. They simply were drawn out of stack of available photos of "suspects" and there were the most vulnerable.
You are all deep into narrative given by Gov. Media., you are conditioned and incapable to think out of box.
Posted by: neretva'43 | Apr 21 2013 12:11 utc | 76
76) You cannot argue away that they obviously fled. They are/were not stupid. When you know your photo is out - and one guy said he phoned them to say be careful this looks like you, not believing it was them - the only chance you have is tell everybody that you are going to the police or better tell everybody, go to a lawyer, and go to the police with the lawyer. That is clear. Both were no loners, they were completely integrated, they would have had tons of support, the younger guy even had a good press after he was named as murderer. Remember they are/were Caucasian :-))
There is also no political problem they had - Chechen independence has been supported by the US.
No party is spinning this politically just now or taking political advantage. If they do, it might be the immigration debate. Noone is really invested in that, it is just trying to score with voters.
I am wondering if the country that has warned the US about Tamerlan's extremism was Khazakhstan, as Tamerlan travelled to Russia after having been quizzed by the FBI and encountered no problems there. There would be no reason not to name Russia, there would be a lot of reasons not to name Khazakhstan.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 21 2013 12:44 utc | 78
Tangent: Under-reported are the instances of the system's leaving breadcrumbs for the 'conspiracy theory' crowd to follow. In 2001 FOX's entertainment network broadcast a The Lone Gunmen episode about an attempt to guide an airliner into the WTC. Now The Family Guy has Peter killing a bunch of people at the Boston Marathon. Then an Elvis impersonator sent out some letters with ricin in them, causing a scare like the 2001 anthrax side story.
Posted by: Bud | Apr 21 2013 12:55 utc | 79
@78, cispa bill just passed using this event to win the votes. It is being a political tool.
Posted by: kev | Apr 21 2013 13:12 utc | 80
@78 I understand Sockpuppeting is your favorite tool, but nevertheless.
They are/were Muslims, there are from Orient, and “the Oriental dies stoically because he thinks of death as the beginning of life.” Gen. Douglas MacArthur.
This is beside that the Bunch of Virgins that are waiting on them. I am surprised I did not see this story anywhere, yet.
Posted by: neretva'43 | Apr 21 2013 13:27 utc | 81
"76) You cannot argue away that they obviously fled."
they fled therefore they MUST have been guilty of something, right?
Cos everyone knows that when your photo appears along with the headline "Bombers Wanted", if you are innocent the best thing to do is hand yourself in to the police.
At least that's how all those Hollywood movies always end, the ones where the hero is framed for murder, and we follow along as he proves his innocence, no?
Posted by: yah . . . But | Apr 21 2013 13:49 utc | 82
81) that is either a very strange argument or I miss the irony.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 21 2013 14:35 utc | 83
I do not use the "irony" ever nor sarcasm. If you never heard of Poe's Law maybe it is now to learn it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law
Posted by: neretva'43 | Apr 21 2013 14:46 utc | 84
What, it was chicom Muslims? 81, afraid i lost the plot also. Did he not say "I shall return" to the Philippines He did say "talk of imminent threat to our national security through the application of external force is pure nonsense". Both ended awry...
Posted by: kev | Apr 21 2013 14:59 utc | 85
Complete and chilling lack of proportional response. You don't shut down a city over one scared 19 year old. What would these idiots do if one seal team went rogue? Freeze and shiver in their boots and surrender?
Ironically enough, Boston is a proving ground for totalitarian creep. It's like a DHS showcase. Warrantless pre-custodial searches in airports were championed in Boston. CDC instigated swine flue madness where people were being assigned tracking braclets. Drone adoption and technology was started there as well. Pick a Nazi-DHS edict, and it was most likely pioneered in Boston. This doesn't diverge from that trend.
Posted by: Cynthia | Apr 21 2013 15:21 utc | 86
Still find this story more believable as ‘individual terrorism’ - that is, more or less as it is presented - than many others served up in recent years.
One can write the script that way, with the older brother becoming ‘radicalized’, i.e. seeking different outlets after what can be felt as failures, dominant over the younger, in his control. The stories from the family point in that direction. Moreover, one should not forget that these new scenarios, myths, amplified endlessly by films and the media, can end up by being acted out, becoming, if one likes, a ‘new reality’ amongst incipiently suicidal attention-seekers. (See school shootings, bank robberies in the past, etc.)
Some ppl, at some point, do stupid and violent things without much reflection. Maybe all that means only that the set-ups have become more sophisticated, who knows. One can also wash away the incredible police reaction with their interest in control and the pushing of a ‘new normal’, combined with collective USA hysteria about anything labelled ‘terrorism’.
===
Why would the bros. move about undisguised in normal gear and w. backpacks to boot, if they set up the bombing secretly between them? They would have known about cameras all over the place, anybody attempting what they did would have gone for disguise. On the pix, they move about confidently, separately and together, much like the accused in the London bombings. (Again, a part of the script. Those silhouettes...) But then, delusions, lack of smarts have been the downfall of many.
How were they identified so quickly? (I haven’t followed..) but the only way really was by publishing pix and asking the public, which would have turned them up. Did that happen? If so, how, what is the precise timeline? One point that the doubting should address, in detail. Now, before info is deleted.
Supposedly?, after their pix were published they went into wild panic mode - had no plan for what to do after the attacks, of if they had, these did not include the poss. they would be identified bang off.
Merah is the closest ex. I can think of.
Our reality is a weird simulacrum, actors play their parts, unwittingly or with some grasp. It is the blue screen, the strident voice, the totally corrupt news, which push all to act a role, step into some shoes, play the victim, the triumphant, the weird loser caught out.
Posted by: Noirette | Apr 21 2013 15:32 utc | 87
What would these idiots do if one seal team went rogue? Freeze and shiver in their boots and surrender?
Not far off, remember when Pakistan closed the Kyber Pass. what was the most missed item, it was not ammunition, hamburgers, it was nappies. Yes the great GI wears nappy pads when he goes on patrol. LOL
Posted by: hans | Apr 21 2013 15:50 utc | 88
@yah...
Congrats on flinging more shit into the conversation, you jack off. You added nothing.
@'43
"They simply were drawn out of stack of available photos of 'suspects' and there were the most vulnerable."
So the FBI went through all the images, found two guys and pinned it on them? So then the real bombers are still out there, good enough. There should be evidence of that in all the photos that surfaced.
But this seems like an over complicated theory. We know the FBI has convinced people to do terrorist attacks, only to "foil" them at the last moment. So why would they carry it out themselves (you say it wasn't these two, so it had to be some others) - with all the risk that entails - and then pin it on a couple of guys, when they could just as easily cut out the middle men and convinced a couple of "real terrorists" carry it out?
Better effect with less risk, no?
Posted by: guest | Apr 21 2013 16:31 utc | 89
The official story:
The guys were identified after one of the people wounded in the bombing told police about a man with a black cap that put down a rucksack and went away. That rucksack exploded.
The police then went through the videos to find the man with the black cap and a rucksack. When they had him they could identify the second man as both were, at times, together at the marathon.
Sounds reasonable to me.
Listen Yah butt et al, speculating and theorizing is not illegal in this country...yet. Personally I'm not convinced either one of them had bombs in their backpacks. We've seen the fake set-up story enough to know that the FBI is and will remain to be predictable in their MO, ie thoroughly mendacious to the point of absurdity in any 'sting' they conceive. Only a FOOL would follow through until the end, as has also been proven.
With each one of these fake stings, I've felt intense anger and helplessness. Me, some jerk on the internet with nothing to 'hide'.
It's completely plausible that one or both of these brothers would become so incensed by the realization that they were about to be framed for something and sent to jail for the rest of their lives that they would try to maximize the situation, in any way possible.
Still JUST A THEORY, FUKSACK.
Posted by: L Bean | Apr 21 2013 18:33 utc | 91
Also Dhzokhar climbed out of the boat on his own, and was standing before he was subdued/shot.
Posted by: L Bean | Apr 21 2013 19:10 utc | 92
I'm just a lurker here but have a question. How is that this guy climbed out of the boat on his own but then was unconscious? Are they interrogating him now? because he's not in as serious a condition as the FBI told us. @ the 3:02 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9Xl8CZeJT14
Posted by: TikTok | Apr 21 2013 20:51 utc | 93
@'43
"They simply were drawn out of stack of available photos of 'suspects' and there were the most vulnerable."
Yeah, then they got suckered into a shootout with the cops. You sure you've thought this through, or, uh, do you even bother???
Posted by: PissedOffAmerican | Apr 21 2013 20:51 utc | 94
Some terrorists get financial support; they don't need pressure cookers.
news report, Apr 20, 2013 -- US prepares $130m military aid package for Syrian rebels
@TikTok #93
Where did you get that DT climbed out of the boat on his own? It's not on your video, as you know. But there is one published photo of him (or somebody) sitting upright on the side of the boat. One tough dude, if it's DT.
BTW I was fascinated by the time clock on that video you linked to. It jumped around from 19:55 to 20:10 back to 19;33. . .Very strange.
Bacon, he is not 'sitting' on the boat, this is an action still of his one leg swung over the edge as he's getting out of the boat on his own with his full weight on his legs, in an upright fashion.
Posted by: L Bean | Apr 21 2013 21:14 utc | 97
@97 sure is what it looks like to me. Surely it isn't a shot of him getting in.
Posted by: guest | Apr 21 2013 21:29 utc | 98
Prove what? Even if he is 'sitting', he is upright, concious and obviously attempting to exit the boat on his own. Or do you think this may be some other person caught on video straddling some other random boat that just happens to have and identically ripped tarp? Good grief.
Posted by: L Bean | Apr 21 2013 22:12 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
Well, with all the extra security, including "drills" with bomb sniffing dogs... Maybe they lost track of the two of them, and know this was a possibility. Perhaps the FBI couldn't close down the marathon without making it look like it had lost a guy they knew.
I have no idea. But all the extra security at the marathon and the drill needs to be explained.
I'm not a truther, and I'm the kind who would think the FBI would kill random American citizens or any false flag stuff that got people killed, but I do think it is entirely possible that eventually, their little entrapment game might have gotten ahead of them, and Boston paid the price.
Posted by: guest | Apr 20 2013 7:24 utc | 1