"Positively Identified" Journalists Attacked
Israel hits 2 Gaza media HQs, 6 journalists injuredThe Al-Shawa building, struck in the early hours, houses a number of media organizations, including Ma'an News Agency's headquarters in the Gaza Strip.A Ma'an correspondent said the impact was focused on the eleventh floor, where the office of al-Quds TV is located.
Six journalists were moderately injured, five of whom were identified as Darwish Bulbul, Ibrahim Labed, Muhammad al-Akhras and Hazem al-Daour, all al-Quds TV employees.
...
A second Israeli airstrike around 7 a.m. hit a second media complex in Gaza City , the al-Shuruq building.Sky News Arabia and Al-Arabiya reported that their offices have been affected.
Shortly after the above happened:
The sites that we targeted overnight were all positively identified by precise intelligence over the course of months.
Posted by b on November 18, 2012 at 7:01 UTC | Permalink
Desperation's set in..If ya can't win the information war, kill the messenger..This is like the Syrian fsa terrorists on steroids.
The more sign Israel's loosing the war. Another humiliation awaiting them.
Has anyone noticed that since 2006, the IDF's never won any war?
Posted by: Zico | Nov 18 2012 8:09 utc | 2
"Has anyone noticed that since 2006, the IDF's never won any war? Posted by: Zico"
whaddaya mean...since 2006? The IDF have NEVER won a war against a REAL army. These cowardly murderers prefer to assault women and children. It's their modus operandi. the only kind of war they know how to wage. Face it - they're cowardly terrorists, not soldiers.
Posted by: arthurdecco | Nov 18 2012 8:52 utc | 3
@3 Well, be fair, arthur.
The IDF clearly won battles against real armies in 1948, in 1956, and in 1967.
It sorta won in 1973, but Operation Nickel Grass has a lot to do with that.
But from 1982 onwards, well, it's been alllll downhill from there.
Posted by: Johnboy | Nov 18 2012 9:30 utc | 4
Johnboy @ 4
The 1948, in 1956, and 1967 "victories" where made possible by Arab collaborationists within the Arab armies.
There's rumors Mubarak of Egypt was one such collaborators.
In the Arab world, money can buy anything..
Posted by: Zico | Nov 18 2012 10:21 utc | 5
And don’t of course forget they won the war when they backed down the U.S. armed forces on June 8, 1967. But I guess that could be considered a collaborative victory as well.
Sixth Fleet Abandons USS Liberty Under Fire.
DoD Approves Of Their Action
Posted by: juannie | Nov 18 2012 11:40 utc | 6
In the [Arab] world, money can buy anything.. ...except peace
Posted by: Chuck Cliff | Nov 18 2012 12:16 utc | 7
Identified by whom? Dingbats with an urge to bomb?
Posted by: Daniel Rich | Nov 18 2012 12:25 utc | 8
I got this letter from Jewish Voice for Peace and signed the petition.
1. *Call the White House right now
202-456-1414 or
202-456-1111 *
and ask President Obama to act: Stop the Bombs. Stop the Siege. Stop Payment on the Israeli Military's Blank Check.
2. *Organize or attend a protest in your area [ http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/301/p/salsa/event/common/public/search.sjs?distributed_event_KEY=702 ]*
3. *Sign the Open Letter to Obama: [ http://www.obamaletter.org/ ]*
US aid to Israel should be contingent on compliance with the law.
Thank you,
Daniel
Posted by: Daniel Rich | Nov 18 2012 12:49 utc | 9
In the Arab world, money can buy anything..
I think it is more probably blackmail.
Posted by: alexno | Nov 18 2012 13:17 utc | 10
Six journalists were moderately injured
I don't know how Maan describes "moderately injured" but one of the journalists has just had his leg amputated, according to AFP's Sara Hussein who is reporting from Gaza. Her Twitter:
One of the journalists injured in the #Israel strike on a #Gaza media building has lost a leg, medical sources say #Palestinians
At least three journalists hurt in #Gaza after #Israel strike on a media building. I am fine for those asking. Safe for now. @AFP
Personally, if I had just lost a leg, I would not consider myself to be "moderately injured".
Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Nov 18 2012 13:41 utc | 11
Six journalists were moderately injured
I was just thinking, what a difference this time from 2009! In 2009, there were scarcely any journalists in Gaza (and only Arabs). This time two tower-blocks full, and the BBC at least elsewhere in Gaza City. Should have a significant moderating effect on Israel. That is why the bombardment of those buildings.
Posted by: alexno | Nov 18 2012 14:15 utc | 12
@12 Those were Al Quds journalists. I doubt very much if the BBC will be targeted.
Posted by: dh | Nov 18 2012 14:56 utc | 13
Two were killed in the 2nd media building. Total is 8 journalists.
Posted by: Forgetful | Nov 18 2012 15:41 utc | 14
The questions to ask your favorite Zionist:
If Israeli targets are positively identified in advance, and the bombs are precisely targeted, and journalists are killed, isn't that admission of a war crime?
[Not that committing war crimes ever mattered to Zionists, because who's to enforce the law?]
Posted by: JohnH | Nov 18 2012 15:46 utc | 16
In the Arab world, money can buy anything..
Another ignorant statement from Zico, as if money has no effect anywhere else.
The US and Israel recognize the importance of controlling the narrative, and they will stop an nothing to do it.
past news reports:
* Video shows U.S. attack that killed Reuters staffers in Iraq ... In all, at least 16 journalists were killed by U.S. forces' fire in Iraq,
* IRAQ Reporters Without Borders condemns the recent attacks on journalists
* more than 340 journalists have been killed since the US-led invasion in 2003,
Al-Quds (Jerusalem) TV in Gaza is such a dangerous news source, connected to "terrorists." from a right-wing source:
The State Department, in a stunning act of sponsoring terror, has invited the propaganda television station of Hamas, Al-quds TV, to film propaganda here in the United States in your dime. Below is a cable of a proposal from the U.S. Consulate in Jerusalem. Al-quds TV, the mouthpiece for Hamas, will film a documentary and miniseries about Muslims in America. All at US taxpayers' expense. It's really disgusting. Hamas comes to Washington.
It's better for US/Israel that we get the news from reliable sources like the BBC: Three Israelis killed by Gaza rocket as violence escalates
The Palestinian “state bid” comes up at the UN on Nov. 29.
From permanent observer (1) to non-member observer state. (2)
(After last year’s failed UN membership attempt. Which was sure to be a bust, because of a certain US veto.)
Note the word ‘state’ in 2.
Ex. of 1.
PLO, since 1974, the EU, since 1974, the Int’l Red Cross, The Int’l tribune of Law of the Sea, The Islamic Development Bank Group, Interpol, and heaps of others.
Ex. of 2.
“Non-member observer states are recognized as sovereign states, and are free to submit a petition to join as a full member at their discretion. For example, Switzerland was a permanent observer state from 1948 to 2002, until becoming a full member on September 10, 2002.” (wiki). Present: The Vatican (Holy See), The Cook Islands (maybe?)
The distinctions between these and other categories (e.g. Western Sahara, a ‘non self governing territory’) are not unambiguously clear cut. (How could they be?) It all depends on corridor jockeying, who is allowed to participate in what, who wants to make an effort to be active, etc. The UN site itself muddies the distinctions with shoddy ‘legalese.’
Note: “The status of a Permanent Observer is based purely on practice, and there are no provisions for it in the United Nations Charter.” (UN site.)
131 member States of the UN recognize ‘Palestine’ as a State. The UN still classifies Palestine as ‘occupied territory.’
Gaining the status of ‘xyz-anything state’ would be a tremendous leg up for Palestine.
The present attack > Gaza seems to me to be a reaction. After all, they can’t shoot Abbas can they? I mean, they could, but it would be most unwise.
Posted by: Noirette | Nov 18 2012 16:31 utc | 19
@Noirette: They might be authorized to call the ICC in The Hague -- finally.
Posted by: m_s | Nov 18 2012 16:45 utc | 20
Image is everything to Israelis. Cause it's all they got.
Posted by: вот так | Nov 18 2012 18:09 utc | 21
The US and Israel have (of course) opposed the Palestine bid for status as a UN observer state, and the US has threatened penalties.
The Palestine application for observer state status "reaffirms the principle of universality of the United Nations" and "reaffirms the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to independence in their State of Palestine on the basis of the pre-1967 borders."
The US, early in 2011, backed away from 1967 borders, making borders a subject for negotiation, a process described in the Palestine Papers which were leaked to Al Jazeera last year.
At a critical 21 October 2009 meeting, [George] Mitchell read out proposed language for terms of reference:
"The US believes that through good faith negotiations the parties can mutually agree on an outcome that achieves both the Palestinian goal of an independent and viable state encompassing all the territory occupied in 1967 or its equivalent in value, and the Israeli goal of secure and recognized borders that reflect subsequent developments and meets Israeli security requirements."The Obama administration's failure to press Israel to accept the international consensus that the Palestinian state would be established on all the territories Israel occupied in 1967, except for minor adjustments, dooms the two-state solution. It may well be that a US administration that came to office promising unparalleled efforts to bring peace, ends up clearing the path for Lieberman's and Livni's abhorrent ideas to enter the mainstream.
However this US position changed in May 2011.
NY Times, May 20, 2011
A day before the arrival in Washington of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, Mr. Obama declared that the prevailing borders before the 1967 Arab-Israeli war — adjusted to some degree to account for Israeli settlements in the West Bank — should be the basis of a deal. . .The Israeli government immediately protested, saying that for Israel to return to its pre-1967 borders would leave it “indefensible.”
The current US position? Anybody's guess.
Will Palestine/Palestinians one day get the right to defend themselves, O-ff-ing-bummer?
Sunday becomes the deadliest day since Israel launched an operation against Hamas militants.
At least 21 people are reported to have been killed in Gaza by Israeli bombardments so far on Sunday. Of the total, at least nine were children and at least four were women, Gaza health officials said.
An Israeli strike on a home in Gaza has killed at least 10 people, officials say, including four women and four children. The strike reportedly targeted a Hamas official.
PM Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel is ready to expand its operation.
US President Barack Obama said Washington was "fully supportive of Israel's right to defend itself".
Gaza militants continue to fire rockets at Israel, injuries are reported in towns including Ashkelon and Ofakim.
Attempts to reach a ceasefire continued. Egyptian security officials said a senior Israeli official had arrived in Cairo for talks, Israel has made no comment.
Since Israel launched its Operation Pillar of Defence on Wednesday 67 people have been killed, officials said.
I don't want no more 4-years-with-u.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2012/nov/18/israel-gaza-live-updates
Posted by: Daniel Rich | Nov 18 2012 18:27 utc | 23
For all of you feeling literally sick to your stomachs when thinking about, reading about, realizing what the Israeli government is doing, yet again and with US compliance (connivance even?), here's what's posited as happening in your brains:
This Is Your Brain on MetaphorsConsider an animal (including a human) that has started eating some rotten, fetid, disgusting food. As a result, neurons in an area of the brain called the insula will activate. Gustatory disgust. Smell the same awful food, and the insula activates as well. Think about what might count as a disgusting food (say, taking a bite out of a struggling cockroach). Same thing.
Now read in the newspaper about a saintly old widow who had her home foreclosed by a sleazy mortgage company, her medical insurance canceled on flimsy grounds, and got a lousy, exploitative offer at the pawn shop where she tried to hock her kidney dialysis machine. You sit there thinking, those bastards, those people are scum, they’re worse than maggots, they make me want to puke … and your insula activates. Think about something shameful and rotten that you once did … same thing. Not only does the insula “do” sensory disgust; it does moral disgust as well. Because the two are so viscerally similar. When we evolved the capacity to be disgusted by moral failures, we didn’t evolve a new brain region to handle it. Instead, the insula expanded its portfolio.Or consider pain. Somebody pokes your big left toe with a pin. Spinal reflexes cause you to instantly jerk your foot back just as they would in, say, a frog. Evolutionarily ancient regions activate in the brain as well, telling you about things like the intensity of the pain, or whether it’s a sharp localized pain or a diffuse burning one. But then there’s a fancier, more recently evolved brain region in the frontal cortex called the anterior cingulate that’s involved in the subjective, evaluative response to the pain. A piranha has just bitten you? That’s a disaster. The shoes you bought are a size too small? Well, not as much of a disaster.
Now instead, watch your beloved being poked with the pin. And your anterior cingulate will activate, as if it were you in pain. There’s a neurotransmitter called Substance P that is involved in the nuts and bolts circuitry of pain perception. Administer a drug that blocks the actions of Substance P to people who are clinically depressed, and they often feel better, feel less of the world’s agonies. When humans evolved the ability to be wrenched with feeling the pain of others, where was it going to process it? It got crammed into the anterior cingulate. And thus it “does” both physical and psychic pain.
(My emphasis)
The Insula Reaction. Moral disgust manifesting as physical disgust.
Israeli government = disgusting rot.
Fascinating piece, worth reading in its entirety.
(Since my friend who had the stroke in early September is getting better physically, the way his brain is functioning and not functioning is becoming clearer. And sadder. He now is rationalizing his deficits as simply being his version of reality, and thus is becoming, almost like a teenager, more resistant to suggestions and even therapy. I'm told that will improve when he gets the kind of cognitive rehab he really needs. His insurance company seems to want to send him to, putting it kindly, "custodial care." Damn corporatist vampires.
Anyway, as I have time, I'm reading more to try to get a handle on what's happening to him. And to do as much as I can to get him the help he needs. The insurance company is equally determined to cut what they see as its losses and are doing all they can to cut off his coverage for the care he needs. They have the power. What a world.)
Yes, to anyone who recognizes this NYTimes op-ed piece: I have posted it previously. But is, to me, so good at capturing how so many of react to what those in power do to us.
Posted by: jawbone | Nov 18 2012 19:21 utc | 24
Daniel Rich @ 23 --
An American leftist in the labor movement was on Pacifica Radio yesterday discussing how the left reacted to Obama and his bid for reelection. He said the American left is too involved in its idea of ITS principles to be able to ally itself with other voters and thus is being marginalized. By not voting for Obama or by simply not voting, they further lose impact on the nation's discourse.
I am in the group he talked about. I voted for Jill Stein of the Green Party as she was the only candidate to articulate issues and responses to them that I agree with. She got 441,751 votes, 0.35% of the popular vote. Yes, less than half a million. I was gobsmacked by the result.
But at least I feel good about my vote.
The speaker on Pacifica, however, thought I and others voting on principle were being foolish -- or worse.
But, at the very least, I am not responsible for Obama's actions on at least one level -- I never voted for him. As a citizen of this nation, I am, however.
But, damn, Obama didn't wait long to make it clear, to me at least, that I did the right thing in not voting for him. He will out-Reagan St. Ronnie of SocSec and Medicare, and he will let Bibi work his evil on the people of Gaza. (And, would Bibi have dared to do this if the US had not engineered the tearing apart of Syria, thus leaving Israel's stolen Golan Heights flank somewhat protected? And now Jordan is getting into the chaos reigns game. Is Lebanon already on that downward slope?)
The numbers also make it very clear to other politicians that they can get away with a hell of a lot and still be elected or reelected
Daniel Rich at 9 --
I will use your links, but, given the numbers, I fear Obama will brush us all off like dust on a dark suit.... We at least need the impact of cat hairs!
Posted by: jawbone | Nov 18 2012 19:39 utc | 25
@ 24 sorry about your friend - I impulsively replied to your thread b/c of that last part, for the horror of what is happening to the Palestinian's almost shuts off from overload. So, I wonder then - are those humans who are on the dark side of mayhem and killing, sitting on an evolutionary branch that left them without the capacity to feel empathy? A natural selection of sociopaths as the new normal?
Posted by: thirsty | Nov 18 2012 19:47 utc | 26
this recalls the US targeting the journalists in the Palestine Hotel in Baghdad, that too must have been 'positively identified'!
Posted by: brian | Nov 18 2012 20:37 utc | 27
When condoning Israeli actions Obama is merely being consistent, since the US has been conducting Obama-supported horror campaigns "to defend itself" many times worse than Palestine on tens of thousands of people including principally the aggressive wars in Iraq and Afghanistan-Pakistan.
this recalls the US targeting the journalists in the Palestine Hotel in Baghdad, that too must have been 'positively identified'!
It is obvious, more than in Baghdad, that Israel is targetting journalists, and trying to discourage them. As I said earlier, the big difference between 2009 and today, is that there are many journalists in Gaza to witness what Israel does. At any price, it is vital for Israel to prevent the truth coming out. But they can't eliminate all the journalists.
That is a significant constraint on Israel. I would have expected an Israeli invasion of Gaza yesterday or today. They hesitate, while uttering bellicose threats. I would have thought that the prospect of invading Gaza, with journalists filming every moment, is not attractive.
Israel had a lot of luck in 2009. There were no, or few, journalists in Gaza to record what happened. Today there are barrages of cameras to record every moment.
Posted by: alexno | Nov 18 2012 22:09 utc | 29
One explanation of the present hesitation in the attack could be that Israel is "persuading" Western News sources not to film the events. Once achieved, the attack will go ahead.
Posted by: alexno | Nov 18 2012 22:54 utc | 30
@ jawbone #25,
There was some sort of discussion going on here the other day about demonstrating and the usefulness of it. I've joined and organized countless demos and although I never got what I wanted I can sit back and tell myself, 'At least you've tried peacefully. The next option is violence/anarchy/or other sorts of panem et circenses.' Voting for alternatives is a courageous thing and anyone vomiting all over it should find the appropriate venue to dispose of mental garbage. At times I do feel hopeless and desperate, but those who need my/your/our help always keep me on my feet, on my toes and on guard.
Posted by: Daniel Rich | Nov 18 2012 22:58 utc | 31
I also believe that, with a certain mindset/mind set, it all becomes a lot easier to execute wanton murder of innocent civilians when the following thesis is adhered to properly and to the letter:
“The Bible finds no worse image than this of the man from the desert. And why? Because he has no respect for any law. Because in the desert he can do as he pleases. The tendency towards conflict is in the essence of the Arab. He is an enemy by essence. His personality won’t allow him any compromise or agreement. It doesn’t matter what kind of resistance he will meet, what price he will pay. His existence is one of perpetual war. Israel’s must be the same. The two states solution doesn’t exist; there are no two people here. There is a Jewish people and an Arab population… there is no Palestinian people, so you don’t create a state for an imaginary nation… they only call themselves a people in order to fight the Jews.” [1]- Benjamin Netanyahu
Posted by: Daniel Rich | Nov 18 2012 23:05 utc | 32
Ack, for some reason, I can't get some of the URL's to embed correctly. At least i don't see what I'm doing wrong....
http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2012/11/18/israels-targeting-of-media-is-a-war-crime/”>Kevin Gosztala has a post up at FDL about the IDF direct attacks (to the very floor) on journalists in Gaza.
Commenter mzchief mentioned that Harry Fear, a young British documentarian, has been tweeting extensively on what’s been going on.
Looonnng tweet trail, which is much harder to negotiate than a blog! I started at this You Tube link, of Fear giving a lecture at Oxford, iirc, in early Sept. (unsure of date) about conditions in Gaza and the Israeli drone war there before the October uptick in IDF violence.
Here’s his documentary, http://www.youtube.com/watch?=B27HH6CFAOU&feature=youtu.be”>Martyred in Gaza.
Wow. A lot to catch up with, but very interesting. Not safe for MCM broadcast as Fear does not toe the governments’ propaganda lines.
Anyone here up to date on his work?
Grosztola link:
http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2012/11/18/israels-targeting-of-media-is-a-war-crime/
Doc link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B27HH6CFAOU&feature=youtu.be
Posted by: jawbone | Nov 18 2012 23:45 utc | 33
Don Bacon @ 28 --
Once upon a time, in different world, the US would condemn actons such as Israel's...and their own...attacks on journalists and civilians.
Change, brought to us by...Bush II and Obama? Or even earlier, but not bragged about back then?
Posted by: jawbone | Nov 18 2012 23:48 utc | 34
Good piece by Musa Abumarzuq in The Guardian
Hamas may not be able to defeat Israel but we can stand firm against it, and paralyse life in a significant part of the country. This is the right of any free people. Gaza and Hamas are not alone, and the enemies of Israel are increasing. The Arab world is changing. The Palestinian people today see in Hamas hope and leadership.Israel has embarked on an adventure it has not calculated properly. It must now bear the consequences. A truce will be on Hamas's terms, not Israel's. The first of these will be to lift the oppressive blockade on the Gaza Strip.
Also everything you need to know about the coming storm in Jordan in one article:
Tafilah, a small city tucked into dramatic, austere mountains some 180 km south of Jordan's capital of Amman, could never have been predicted to be at the vanguard of such a movement. It is a tiny province, representing little more than one percent of the total population of Jordan, which is based almost entirely in and around the capital city. As stereotypes would have it, as an East Bank and tribal community, it was once widely believed to be a bulwark of support for the monarchy.
Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Nov 19 2012 0:29 utc | 35
@jawbone
When I Ctrl/U your comment I see "nofollow" in your links which are explained here. Beyond that I can't go.
“a cost of doing business.”
NYTimes (excerpts)
BAGHDAD — One by one, the Marines sat down, swore to tell the truth and began to give secret interviews discussing one of the most horrific episodes of America’s time in Iraq: the 2005 massacre by Marines of Iraqi civilians in the town of Haditha.
“I mean, whether it’s a result of our action or other action, you know, discovering 20 bodies, throats slit, 20 bodies, you know, beheaded, 20 bodies here, 20 bodies there,” Col. Thomas Cariker, a commander in Anbar Province at the time, told investigators as he described the chaos of Iraq. At times, he said, deaths were caused by “grenade attacks on a checkpoint and, you know, collateral with civilians.”
The documents — many marked secret — form part of the military’s internal investigation, and confirm much of what happened at Haditha, a Euphrates River town where Marines killed 24 Iraqis, including a 76-year-old man in a wheelchair, women and children, some just toddlers.
Iraqi civilians were being killed all the time. Maj. Gen. Steve Johnson, the commander of American forces in Anbar, in his own testimony, described it as “a cost of doing business.”
Stop the war co.uk headlines:
Time to break the taboo and say what Gaza is: a concentration camp
18 November 2012 Arthur Silber Palestine and Israel
It is as if everyone realizes, but will never state, that we are engaged in an elaborate charade, a pageant of gesture and indication, where substance and specific meaning have been banned.
more at link:
Posted by: crone | Nov 19 2012 2:51 utc | 38
“We are fully supportive of Israel’s right to defend its borders.”
What ff-ing borders is Obambi referring to?
A country without a constitution and clearly defined borders [even after land grab/theft]is a..., well, what it is right now, a hellhole that has every right to evaporate from the pages of time [as in dissolve, not destroyed].
Posted by: Daniel Rich | Nov 19 2012 2:59 utc | 39
Q: It is as if everyone realizes, but will never state, that we are engaged in an elaborate charade, a pageant of gesture and indication, where substance and specific meaning have been banned.
R: Let's boil that down to something easier to digest/comprehend - F*** Israel! Better?
Posted by: Daniel Rich | Nov 19 2012 3:01 utc | 40
Better? YES!
Found this while reading online:
“The first time it was reported that our friends were being butchered there was a cry of horror. Then a hundred were butchered. But when a thousand were butchered and there was no end to the butchery, a blanket of silence spread. When evil doing comes like falling rain, nobody calls out ‘Stop!’ When crimes begin to pile up, they become invisible. When sufferings become unendurable, the cries are no longer heard. The cries, too, fall like rain in summer.” Bertolt Brecht
and this:
“The civility of no race can be perfect whilst another race is degraded. It is a doctrine alike of the oldest and of the newest philosophy, that man is one, and that you cannot injure any member, without a sympathetic injury to all the members.” Ralph Waldo Emerson, 1844
Posted by: crone | Nov 19 2012 3:22 utc | 41
Anonymous leaks personal information of 5,000 Israeli officials
Internet hacktivist group Anonymous has declared cyberwar on Israel, posting personal data of five thousand Israeli officials online.
The group used their Anonpaste.me site to address a message to the Israeli government before linking to the page with names, ID numbers and personal emails of 5,000 officials.
The message said: "It has come to our attention that the Israeli government has ignored repeated warnings about the abuse of human rights, shutting down the internet in Israel and mistreating its own citizens and those of its neighboring countries."
etc
http://rt.com/news/anonymous-israel-officials-leaked-002/
Posted by: brian | Nov 19 2012 6:46 utc | 42
"They might be authorized to call the ICC in The Hague -- finally" (m_s. #24).
Only to be put on hold.
Israelis aren't black.
Posted by: Bob Jackson | Nov 19 2012 7:32 utc | 43
The real looser here are the Muslims brotherhood in the region (Turkey, Qatar, Egypt), who've now been exposed for their incompetence and complicity in the latest conflict.
They're pretty much telling the Palestinians to lay down their weapons(ceasefire) and die. I suspect Obama's pressuring Erdogan and Musrsi to do this or else!!!
Why isn't Erdogan setting up a "FRIENDS OF PALESTINE" meeting in Ankara..Again, the bankruptcy of the Muslim brotherhood in the region's been exposed for all to see.
Posted by: Zico | Nov 19 2012 8:14 utc | 44
Zico, the politics are complex
Six days into the aerial attack on Gaza, 84 percent of the Israeli public supports Operation Pillar of Defense, with 12 percent opposing it, according to a Haaretz-Dialog poll taken Sunday. The poll surveyed proportional samples of Jews and Arabs, indicating that Jewish support for the war stands at upwards of 90 percent.At the same time, however, only 30 percent of the public supports a ground attack in Gaza.
Israelis also give a clear nod of approval to the political leadership that ordered and leads the operation, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak. Netanyahu and Barak now have much higher level of approval ratings than in previous surveys before the operation - a jump of about 20 percent.
I guess Hamas will get out of the cease fire agreement what they want. Israel has no military targets left, from now on they are civilian - bad press with all the journalists in Gaza this time - last time it was Al Jazeera - many more now - bad in comparison with the reaction to Syria. Will get worse if they invade with no real military aim as they intend to withdraw in the end.
The iron dome missiles are expensive and I guess Hamas is mixing cheap projectiles with effective ones which the iron dome cannot distinguish.
So in all likelihood the Muslim Brotherhood's different levels of negotiation and US friendship will come out with quite a good result (as any of them can legitimately shrug their shoulders and say they have no real influence on the Hamas military wing).
Posted by: somebody | Nov 19 2012 9:25 utc | 45
jawbone @ 33
Harry Fear has been streaming live pretty much nonstop since the start of it. When the stream is online you can find it here:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/operation-pillar-of-cloud
Posted by: Carpworld | Nov 19 2012 14:32 utc | 47
Has anybody heard any news or comment by that weasel Khaled Mashal and his fatso friend?
Posted by: hans | Nov 19 2012 15:08 utc | 48
Obama is putting it all on "President Mursi and Prime Minister Erdogan . . . who champion the cause of the Palestinians" . . .
"What I said to President Mursi and Prime Minister Erdogan is those who champion the cause of the Palestinians should recognize that if we see a further escalation of the situation in Gaza then the likelihood of us getting back on any kind of peace track that leads to a two-state solution is going to be pushed off way into the future."
. . .conveniently forgetting that he (Obama) once championed the cause of the Palestinians, in Cairo, June 2009.
"Israel must also live up to its obligations to ensure that Palestinians can live, and work, and develop their society. And just as it devastates Palestinian families, the continuing humanitarian crisis in Gaza does not serve Israel's security; neither does the continuing lack of opportunity in the West Bank. Progress in the daily lives of the Palestinian people must be part of a road to peace, and Israel must take concrete steps to enable such progress."
Israel is a terrorist state.
Hurriyet
Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan described Israel today as a "terrorist state" in carrying out its bombardment of Gaza, underlining hostility for Ankara's former ally since relations between them collapsed in 2010.
So what? This is what war entails. Please try writing a concerned editiorial about Hamas instead.
Posted by: Northern Observer | Nov 19 2012 16:01 utc | 51
Turkey, the paragon of freedom and the righteous. A state born of genocide and murder form an empire that practiced kidnapping and murder. A state that to this day can not tolerate freedom of conscience. Yes yes this Turkey is the clean one to cast stones at the hebs. The Kurds can not eat the country of attaturk fast enough for my liking.
Posted by: Northern Observer | Nov 19 2012 16:04 utc | 52
The UN Security Council held an inconsequential meeting on Gaza Wednesday, and has done nothing since.
After Israel attacked the Sudanese weapon dumps, the writing was on the wall that something like this would happen in Gaza. It was designed to limit the Palestinian's ability to defend themselves.
But has anybody else considered linking the latest assault on Gaza to the mysterious events in Sinai all those months ago? It was certainly effective in bringing about the destruction of the vital tunnel networks into Gaza, along which weapons were smuggled.
Hezbollah looks likely to be next.
Syria's disintigration, the declaration of a proxy war against Assad's Government amongst Israel's allies, and the installation of a new puppet Government will signal the severance of weapon flows into Lebanon.
Hezbollah will then be isolated and increasingly vulnerable. The result will be the almost complete erosion of Iranian influence in the middle-east.
I also have my suspicions that the Sunni monarchs are in on it. Their words of condemnation against Israel, contrasted with sending weapons to militants in Syria, is telling.
Posted by: Pat Bateman | Nov 19 2012 16:22 utc | 54
54, sure, something has got to give though. If Qatar and Turkey want to acquire/keep the Muslim Brotherhood as proxy force they cannot short change them. If they give in to Western pressure and short change them Iran is waiting to take over ...
Posted by: somebody | Nov 19 2012 16:32 utc | 55
jawbone @ 25
I voted for Jill Stein of the Green Party as she was the only candidate to articulate issues and responses to them that I agree with. She got 441,751 votes, 0.35% of the popular vote. Yes, less than half a million.
FWIW, I did the same.
I worked hard for BO here last time, ran precincts and several of his offices here, last time. Had a few meetings statewide in which he looked us in the eye and, in response to very specific questions about his notions on Financial reform ("nationalizing" banks, letting TBTF $$ orgs goe toes up) he made very clear he was going to change things. He had, at that time, a number of prominent financial advisers (Volker) advocating for just that.
He... lied. He went w/WS insiders (Geithner) 100%, did not even make an attempt to change things funamentally by which financial crime here not only pays, but directs and misdirects US financial resources for *increasing* them, but not creating... *value*.
Anyway, voting for either of "Big 2', after so many years (I'm 55). at this stage in time... I have concluded BO/Romney or their parties are, approximately 100%.. useless, towards bringing about any fundamental reconsideration of all we do here, so badly needed.
...
Thing about Stein, however... (and local GP, in our case New Mexico)... they talk a good game, but have no vision had to bring it about. I say that because, we (US) have huge, massive... water problems all over, canaries in the mine nobody is listening to. I have, for nearly a year now, joined with several others to fight for the massive effort needed to preserve our own Water supply (Albuquerque, NM), threatened ongoingly in real time by the largest toxic spill into a drinking water supply, in the history of the US, which nobody wants to do anything about, much less intelligent apprise and acknowledge. I described the situation a while ago here on MOA, briefly, in this comment.
We put considerable effort into contacting, providing very relaible hard data, timelines and much more... to both state and Stein's own offices, offering both financial support and on the ground effort on her behalf, if... reither of them would talk to us, articulate any vision whatsoever wrt how they might do, for example... with our pollution event", logistically or even generally... to bring about what they purport to stand for...
They never even... responded. The state party, through phone calls we made, when describing this fuel spill into our aquifer, professed utter ignorance that this situation even exists!!!
So for me, voting Green... AFAIC at best, a very minor symbolic event/choice which, really... has -0- chance of having meaningful effect, because... Stein does talk well I think, and does say things I like and agree with, but has not demonstrated any ability or an inkling of such, on how realizing what she talks about can be brought to bare.
But at least I feel good about my vote.
Frankly, I didn't spend enough time thinking about mine, to have any feeling about it one way or another. I'm not even sure anymore that anything political is a useful avenue by which transformations in what people here do, will come ahout in sufficient mass and purpose, to change things meaningfully... whatsoever.
I think our political apparatus (and more) is just broken beyond repairs. Corrupt to the bone, approx. 100% ineffective, whatsoever/
Posted by: jdmckay | Nov 19 2012 16:42 utc | 56
@Pat Bateman -- . . .The result will be the almost complete erosion of Iranian influence in the middle-east.
No way. Hezbollah is in no danger, and Iran's position of strength in the area is only increasing, with Iraq and Egypt in its corner. Turkey needs Iran gas, and Russia, India and Pakistan are increasing ties with Iran, which has withstood the US financial aggression and heads NAM.
BTW, has anyone been following the I/P threads on Reddit? The hasbara is hysterical. The sensible comments are buried under a blizzard of "downvotes"; the weaselly, platitudinous bilge bubbles to the top, like slag.
Posted by: yes_but | Nov 19 2012 17:15 utc | 58
@57
You see, I'm not so sure about Morsi. He behaved like a Trojan horse at NAM - wheeled out by the Iranians in celebration as a sign of improved ties, only to turn around and slap them in the face as he called for the removal of Iran's ally in Syria. All that financial aid flooding into Egypt from Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey and now the IMF has to come with certain strings attached, hasn't it?
Also, Erdogan sold out Assad in a heartbeat. When the Turkish-Azerbaijan gas pipeline is completed and exploration of gas reserves in the Mediterranean resumes (following the recent suspension of a joint venture with Syria), Turkey will begin to wean itself of Iranian gas.
Enhanced ties with Russia, India and Pakistan are of little significance with regards to Iranian influence in the ME.
Posted by: Pat Bateman | Nov 19 2012 17:17 utc | 59
There are huge differences between the West Bank and Gaza.
Obviously I am not the best person to post about this. (Only visited Israel once.)
Gaza has sea front, but is basically an open air prison, that is now a cliché. It’s ppl are pretty much locked in, oppressed, starved, sitting ducks, subject to many horrors. No need to detail more. The border with Egypt is of no help whatsoever.
Ramallah is low-key boom-town times. Its students travel and study abroad, Palestinian or ‘Arab’ entrepreneurs can make piles of money, Int’l cos. establish franchises there. Benetton, Starbucks, etc. Music festivals take place, building looks like Spain, heaps of concrete being used, flash structures all over the place. It is the capital of the PLO and most foreign missions are there. Restaurants, theatre, good atmosphere.. Investment opportunities. Reportedly (??) taxes are extremely low, or so say PR sites. It is close to being an ‘in place’ prized by artists and pretend radical types. Young ppl go there to meet - other young ppl, and find jobs.
Not to paint a rosy picture of the W bank....just one aspect.
Perhaps the W bank will be ‘normalized’ through Biz and collaboration with Isr. Money talks. I’m *guessing* that hot biz deals already ignore the ethnicity / legal status etc. of the participants. Or will soon. (?)
That leaves the ppl of Gaza as the final, sacrificial, target.
Bankers call the W bank ‘Palestine autonomous area’: e.g.
http://www.hsbc.com/1/2/about/network/mea/palestinian-autonomous-area
Posted by: Noirette | Nov 19 2012 17:19 utc | 60
@Pat Bateman -- Enhanced ties with Russia, India and Pakistan are of little significance with regards to Iranian influence in the ME.
Wrong. Anything that aids Iran increases its influence in the area.
59 sure, Morsi, being Egyptian Brotherhood would support the Syrian Brotherhood. In the case of Syria, Iran and Hezbollah are stuck with a secular ally with a socialist USSR sphere of influence tradition, in terms of ideology Iran shares much more with the Muslim Brotherhood
When the subject is switched from Syria to resistance to Israel, Iran, Hezbollah and the Muslim Brotherhood share the same values though different interests depending on geography.
Iran's and the Muslim Brotherhoods vision of the ideal state is a democracy limited by clerical power which pits them against any Gulf monarchy
Posted by: somebody | Nov 19 2012 17:59 utc | 62
yes_but @ 58--
Like...slag? Looks like decaying, aereated solid waste, aka turds, at a sewage treatment plant.... Thoset and a foamy, indeterminate colored...something... are on the top. Heh.
Posted by: jawbone | Nov 19 2012 20:49 utc | 64
jdmckay @ 56 --
Thanks for your explanation and shared experiences. I knew Greens wouldn't get that many votes, but, still, I did expect higher numbers. Altho' Nader did cause a lot of animosity toward the Greens.
I had not realized Obama had so obviously lied. In his more public statements he seemed to incorporate weasel words, in order to not be labeled an outright liar. Still, however, a lying liar is liar.
thirsty @ 26 --
I recall a study about the Ultra Rich, and, nowadays, they are very much different from the lower economic quintile folks, in general. They register pretty low on empathy for anyone not of their econ class, wealth level. along with little understanding of their econ issues. We are as dust on their dark suit jackets...an annoyance and not be bothered with except to be brushed off.
Given the incredible increase is renumeration for heads of large corporations, most large businesses are now run by people who have limited if any concern for the lesser of our society. That attitude tends to percolate down through the ranks, and is adhered to if people want to keep their jobs.
For example, the RN care manager at the private insurer, who had been offering advice, even stating she could give the permission for my friend's treatment coverage and that I should have the doctor contact her, suddenly made a about face. Now, for no given reason, she had nothing to do with granting permission for insurance payment, and we should find other means of payment...per the msg she left.
Brushed off, it seems.
Posted by: jawbone | Nov 19 2012 21:05 utc | 65
Brian @ 42 --
Anonymous is also claiming is stymied Karl Rove's attempts to have an IT company change votes in three states, that the reason Rove was so certain OH should not be called for Obama was that Rove was expecting the magic numbers shifting seen in 20004. Only this year, Anonymous had closed off the access to the allow the vote count changes.
True? Who knows, but good story. And quirky letter.
Posted by: jawbone | Nov 19 2012 21:13 utc | 66
somebody 62...Muslim brotherhood is sunni is it not?
From Wikipedia:
'The Brotherhood's stated goal is to instill the Qur'an and Sunnah as the "sole reference point for ...ordering the life of the Muslim family, individual, community ... and state". The movement officially opposes violent means to achieve its goals, although it at one time encompassed a paramilitary wing and its members were involved in massacres, bombings and assassinations of political opponents; notably Egyptian Prime Minister Mahmoud an-Nukrashi Pasha.[8][9] The Muslim Brotherhood started as a religious social organization; preaching Islam, teaching the illiterate, setting up hospitals and even launching commercial enterprises. As it continued to rise in influence, starting in 1936, it began to oppose British rule in Egypt.[10] Many Egyptian nationalists accuse the MB of violent killings during this period.[11] After the Arab defeat in the First Arab-Israeli war, the Egyptian government dissolved the organisation and arrested its members.[10] It supported the Egyptian Revolution of 1952, but after an attempted assassination of Egypt's president it was once again banned and repressed.[12] The MB has been suppressed in other countries as well, most notably in Syria in 1982 during the Hama massacre.[13]
The MB is financed by contributions from its members, who are required to allocate a portion of their income to the movement. Some of these contributions are from members who work in Saudi Arabia and other oil-rich countries.[14]
Posted by: brian | Nov 20 2012 11:58 utc | 67
brian, also from Wikipedia Muslim Brotherhood and Iran
Although Iran is a predominately Shia Muslim country and the Muslim Brotherhood is Sunni in doctrine, Olga Davidson and Mohammad Mahallati claim the Brotherhood has had influence among Shia in Iran.[68] Navab Safavi, who founded Fada'iyan-e Islam, (also Fedayeen of Islam, or Fadayan-e Islam), an Iranian Islamic organization active in Iran in the 1940s and 1950s, "was highly impressed by the Muslim Brotherhood.[69] From 1945 to 1951 the Fadain assassinated several high level Iranian personalities and officials who they believed to be un-Islamic. They included anti-clerical writer Ahmad Kasravi, Premier Haj Ali Razmara, former Premier Abdolhossein Hazhir, and Education and Culture Minister Ahmad Zangeneh.[70] At that time Navab Safavi and Salar Golestanian now based in the UK where associates and allies of Ayatollah Khomeini who went on to become a figure in the Iranian Revolution of 1979.[70] Khomeini and other religious figures in Iran worked to establish Islamic unity and downplay Shia-Sunni differences.[citation needed]
and this is The Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs deeply interested in any religious split in Egypt between Sunnis and Shiites but nevertheless stating that
At its core, the Brotherhood’s basic ideological doctrine is pan-Islamic and religiously inclusive. Since the movement’s creation in 1928, Brotherhood leaders have emphasized the political importance of Islamic unity and have sought to downplay religious differences among various Islamic legal schools, including between Sunnism and Shiism.Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna considered all of Islam’s many sects – except for the Bahais and Qadianis – as belonging to the worldwide Muslim nation (umma). In this spirit, Banna additionally took part in 1948 in the establishment of the Association for Rapprochement between the Islamic Legal Schools (Jamiyyat al-Taqrib bayna al-Madhahib al-Islamiyyah). This organization was designed to bridge the religious divides between Sunni and Shia, and due to this organization’s leadership and influence, Shaykh al-Azhar Mahmud Shaltut declared Twelver Shiite worship to be valid, and recognized it as a legal tradition to be taught in Al-Azhar. As such, Banna and the organization he created originally adhered to an ideological outlook for which the “Shiite question” did not exist.27
Posted by: somebody | Nov 20 2012 12:52 utc | 68
New Zealands TV 3 had an interview with a citizen journalist / blogger (in other words a real journo in conparison to ABCNNBCBSBBC) SHE GOT A PHONE CALL IN gAZA CITY ASKING IF SHE WAS BLAH BLAH - YES SHE ANSWERED. sHE THEN TOLD HOW THE CALLER - AN ISRAELI - STARTED ABUSING HER, TELLING HER SHE WAS A JIHAD PIECE OF SHIT AND THAT SHE WAS GOING TO DIE !!! (oops caps lock on and I ain't redong it sorry !) Yeah unbelievable . on the main news for the whole counrty to hear . .zionazis acting in their true colours. Someone in Tel Aviv is gunna get their arse kicked . .that will have done their cause / propaganda some damage I'd say . . . GOOD SHIT !!!!!!
Posted by: DontNnSUName | Nov 20 2012 14:18 utc | 69
The comments to this entry are closed.
What makes you think they didn't positively identify the site as a press center? Targeting journalists to control the information flow is the usual practice for the US, Israel or ... the Syrian 'opposition'.
Posted by: ThePaper | Nov 18 2012 7:25 utc | 1