Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 29, 2012
Repeating The Libya Mistake in Mali

Military intervention in foreign countries always leads to unintended consequences. These often occur in neighbor countries of the original target. One example is the Vietnam war which lead to the destabilization of and military intervention in Laos and Cambodia.

The U.S. is prone to correct such unintended consequences by further military intervention.
Algeria had warned of intervention in Libya and voted against the Arab League resolution calling for a no-fly zone in Libya:

In March [2011], Algeria voted against the Arab League’s resolution calling for a no-fly zone over Libya, fearing that it would lead to the intervention of foreign ground forces and stressing the need to preserve Libya's security and territorial integrity.

In April, Algerian Foreign Minister Mourad Medelci once again expressed Algeria's fear that some forces were aiming to split Libya and that terrorists could take advantage of the resulting instability, turning the country in a major regional black market for weapons.


The greatest concern for Algeria is that an unstable Libya could turn into a major safe haven and source of weapons for al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM). […] A Libyan implosion could provide AQIM with greater opportunities to buy weapons from Libyan arsenals and to expand its activities to new territories. Algerian officials have strongly stressed this point since the very beginning of the conflict. Moreover, these concerns are shared by other regional countries such as Chad, Mali and Niger.

It is obvious that the Algerian and other African governments were right in their prediction. Tuareg who had served in Gaddhafi's army took their weapons with them and revolted against the government in Mali. They were supported by newly armed AQIM forces. These are now the new rulers of northern Mali with Timbuktu as their new center.

The military intervention led, as predicted by Algeria and others, to bad unintended consequences. This should, one might think, give those who intervened some second thoughts. Could it be that Algiers was right? Could it be that military intervention creates more problems? Could it be that we should listen to those people who actually know their area?

But the people who rule in Washington and Paris are not capable of such thinking. The problems the military intervention in Libya created in Mali must, they says, now be solved by military intervention in Mali:

The United States and France have launched a diplomatic offensive to secure Algeria's vital backing for such action in Mali after the UN Security Council urged ECOWAS nations to prepare for a military force against Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) which is tightening its grip on the north.

This month the council called on West African nations to step up such preparations to reconquer the territory held by AQIM and other jihadist groups.

Today Hillary Clinton was in Algeria to press the Algerian government to support a war on Mali.

For about the same reasons that proved to be right with regard to Libya Algeria and other countries in the region are against such a war:

Algeria, along with Mauritania, has called for dialogue in a bid to reach a political solution, after initially ruling out sending troops.
[…]
[A]n Algerian Tuareg chief, MP Mahmud Guemama, spelled out why he opposed military intervention, in an interview with Elkhabar newspaper published on Monday.

"What the United States and France are asking will cause a lot of problems," he said, warning that such action had "colonial objectives."

"We are more concerned about Algerian towns in the Sahara than northern Mali," he said. "We know how military intention starts but never know the end. Libya was a good example."

Algeria will likely not provide troops for anything in Mali.

The U.S. and France are pressing and bribing several African countries to provide a much too small force of some 3,500 soldiers to somehow kick AQIM out of northern Mali, an area that is bigger than France.

But just as they are unable to learn that any intervention will inherently lead to more problems they are also incapable of learning to use the right intervention forces.

[T]he basic idea is for forces from Nigeria and other West Africa countries to help Mali’s military mount a campaign against the militants.

The use of Christian led Nigerian troops as proxy against indigenous Islamic forces in Mali will lead to the same result as the proxy use of Christian Ethiopian troops against indigenous Islamic forces in Somalia did. The Ethiopian troops there were thoroughly beaten and retreated while the original conflict intensified in brutality.

Nigeria already has problems with its own Muslim population. This have mostly social reasons but the terrorist activities of the radical Islamist Boko Haram in Nigeria will certainly increase when Nigerian troops start to fight Boko Haram's ideological AQIM friends in Mali.

It seems obvious that any intervention in Mali will only increase and spread the problem. Algeria is right to reject it. Should Nigeria really be bribed to send troops to Mali it can expect a huge blowback.

There is only a small chance that Washington, geographically far away from the area, will feel any immediate consequence of what it now tries to arrange in northern Africa. France, with a quite high migration population from northern Africa, is more likely to receive backlashes from this lunatic policies.

Comments

It is self evident that military intervention creates instability. “War begets more war”. But, war profiteers, true believers, and avengers of evil; all spread violence and ignore the havoc they cause.

Posted by: VietnamVet | Oct 29 2012 19:04 utc | 1

“We had a in-depth discussion of the region and particularly the situation in Mali,” including the “terrorist and drug trafficking threat that is posed to the region and beyond,” Clinton told reporters. It’s a “powder keg.”
Bloomberg: The fear that rebel-held northern Mali has become the new Afghanistan figured in the last presidential debate, in which Mitt Romney said the country’s name four times.//
Some history: A military coup overthrew the Mali government in March 2012, claiming that the government had not adequately supported the Malian army’s fight against an advancing Tuareg-led rebellion in the north. Capt. Amadou Haya Sanogo, who led a renegade military faction that deposed Mali’s democratically elected president, visited the United States several times to receive professional military education, including basic officer training. Dioncounda Traoré, a Malian politician, was installed as interim President of Mali in April 2012.
In May, Captain Sanogo’s supporters broke through a security cordon and attacked Traoré in his office. He was beaten unconscious, and demonstrators were seen hoisting his bloody tie and shoe in celebration. The protesters are believed to have been aided by soldiers loyal to the military junta that grabbed power in March and who are unhappy with the transition back to a civilian-led government.
Mali has become an incubator for terrorist activity that demands urgent international attention, world leaders have said, as the U.S. drew its most explicit link between al Qaeda havens in such places and the recent attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya. The political, economic and humanitarian crisis in Mali–and much of the broader North African region known as the Sahel–has turned the country into a “powder keg” for terrorist activity by al Qaeda’s Saharan front, said Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
China/Mali, 2009–At the invitation of Malian President Amadou Toumany Toure, Chinese President Hu Jintao will make a two-day state visit to the country from Thursday. The visit is widely believed to significantly push forward China-Mali ties, expand pragmatic cooperation between the two countries and open a new chapter in bilateral friendship.
July, 2012–In pre-dawn darkness, a Toyota Land Cruiser skidded off a bridge in North Africa in the spring, plunging into the Niger River. When rescuers arrived, they found the bodies of three U.S. Army commandos — alongside three dead women. What the men were doing in the impoverished country of Mali, and why they were still there a month after the United States suspended military relations with its government, is at the crux of a mystery that officials have not fully explained even 10 weeks later.
Mining: Mali is Africa’s third biggest gold producer behind South Africa and Ghana. Gold has become Mali’s third-largest export, after cotton—historically the basis of Mali’s export industry—and livestock.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 29 2012 19:18 utc | 2

@Don Bacon – thanks, valuable bits that make up a picture

Posted by: b | Oct 29 2012 19:32 utc | 3

havoc is the point, not an unintended consequence
if you don’t break it first, how can you then justify charging lots of money when you later pretend to fix it ?

Posted by: ahem | Oct 29 2012 19:57 utc | 4

Grateful my Mom is away from #Sandy and in Algeria working toward peace in #Mali.
— Chelsea Clinton (@ChelseaClinton) October 29, 2012

Posted by: L Bean | Oct 29 2012 20:37 utc | 5

this article should be titled: Repeating the Libya SUCCESS
cause one goal was to destroy Libya….make it less of a threat to USaudisraeli power

Posted by: brian | Oct 29 2012 20:46 utc | 6

The real prize in Mali is its uranium mines, which are located in the north. Remember Joe Wilson’s refutation of Bush’s claims of yellow cake for Saddam? Mali was the supposed supplier.
France, whose economy runs on nuclear power, is covetous.
Declaring northern Mali a terrorist haven will facilitate the depopulation of the area and allow commercial exploitation with no regard for massive environmental damage, such as that experienced by the Navajo in the United States.

Posted by: JohnH | Oct 29 2012 21:06 utc | 7

Correction: Wilson’s uranium was in neighboring Niger, but it is also being mined in Mali.

Posted by: JohnH | Oct 29 2012 21:18 utc | 8

When I read this postings by b, the first thing that came to my mind was this is just another excuse to grab Mali’s natural resources, especially its Uranium. It seems FUKUS is busy trying to secure the Uranium supplies in Africa – oil is short term goal. Long term goal is uranium. The French are experts at this – they have been busy mining uranium in Africa for years. Iran has long sought the right to mine and export uranium from
africa – something banned by UNSC resolutions.
The second thought was that, for these people war is a force that gives meaning to them. No war = No meaning. They realise they are just pathetic people with nothing good to offer mankind.

Posted by: Irshad | Oct 29 2012 21:50 utc | 9

Algeria would be foolish to bow to Clinton and approve a military intervention in Mali because such an intervention will destabilise Algeria first….the wise thing to do is to let Algeria deal with whatever security problems that have been created now in Mali after the breakup of Libya. Any intervention will widen the conflict and worsen the security situation.

Posted by: Sophia | Oct 29 2012 23:19 utc | 10

“Algeria would be foolish to bow to Clinton”
Algeria has a choice?
That would be a first.
headlines: “US seeks Algeria’s support in possible Mali move”
The ‘leader of the free world’ seeking support?
No. Leaders don’t seek support.
They order and instruct.
Seeking support is like leading from behind.
Un-American.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 30 2012 1:49 utc | 11

They are trying recolonisation by proxy.
And neither proxies nor masters seem to agree.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 30 2012 2:04 utc | 12

On October 20 acting Malian President Dioncounda Traoré flew to Doha (Qatar). A special Qatari aircraft was at the disposal of the interim president to transport the Head of State and his accompanying delegation.
The French Foreign Minister, Laurent Fabius, said recently that military action against AQIM in northern Mali calls for “seasoned troops” and will be “difficult.” “The UN and Europe have given permission to assist the training of Malian troops, it can start now,” said the head of French diplomacy on Europe 1 and I-Tele.
It is a ‘side affect’ of Libya. With French leadership Qatar played a major role in the conflict in Libya to overthrow Gaddafi, providing military support and weapons to the opposition. Many weapons used in the Libyan conflict found their way to Mali. Add this to Syria, and Qatar is making Israel — when it’s not bombing Sudan — look lazy when it comes to international ferment.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 30 2012 2:49 utc | 13

The US has also expanded its military’s Special Forces Operation Command and CIA strike capabilities in Africa. Le Nouvel Observateur writes, “The CIA has installed its headquarters for the Maghreb-Sahel region in Algeria. As for its Special Forces, they are based in Mali and Burkina Faso.”
In Algeria:

The senior U.S. official said after the talks that Clinton argued strongly that counter-terror efforts in Mali could not wait for a political resolution to Mali’s problems.
“The secretary underscored … that it is very clear that a political process and our counter-terrorism efforts in Mali need to work in parallel,” the official said.

Oh sure, the West will build a new nation while it’s fighting Islamists. Where has it tried that before?
Does this make sense?

The Pentagon has been prohibited from giving military aid or training to Mali in the aftermath of the March coup. The ban, imposed by the State Department, is unlikely to be lifted until a democratically elected government can be reinstated.

Meanwhile, the Pentagon is stirring up the region.

In July, the Defense Department allocated $6.9 million worth of military trucks, uniforms and communications gear for Mauritania. It also agreed to give Niger $11.6 million in equipment, primarily in the form of two Cessna airplanes that can be used for surveillance and to transport troops.
That same month, about 600 U.S. troops organized and led a joint military exercise, dubbed Western Accord 2012, with several West African nations, including Senegal, Burkina Faso, Guinea and Gambia. French troops also participated.
The Africa Command has continued to operate surveillance flights — under a classified program code-named Creek Sand — from a U.S. Special Operations forces base in Burkina Faso.

Call it Up The Creek Sand. without a paddle

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 30 2012 3:09 utc | 14

Speaking of Libya, here’s a rumor (and only a rumor):

It suggests that after General Ham, CG AFRICOM, was told to stand down from sending aid to Benghazi, that General Ham on his own decided to proceed, and that he was then relieved of his command. On 18 October 2012, Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta participated in a “DOD News Briefing on Efforts to Enhance the Financial Health of the Force.” In his introductory remarks, Mr. Panetta said: “Today I am very pleased to announce that President Obama will nominate General David Rodriguez to succeed General Carter Ham as commander of U.S. Africa Command . . .”
SecDef Panetta: “(The) basic principle is that you don’t deploy forces into harm’s way without knowing what’s going on; without having some real-time information about what’s taking place,” Panetta told Pentagon reporters. “And as a result of not having that kind of information, the commander who was on the ground in that area, Gen. Ham, Gen. Dempsey and I felt very strongly that we could not put forces at risk in that situation.”

General Ham was ‘on the ground’ in Stuttgart, but I guess he won’t be much longer.
Bacon will miss Ham. Which reminds me, I was once stationed in Netherlands where part of my duties was to visit Dutch air bases, accompanied by a civilian from the Dutch air force. His name was Mr. Egg (pronounced Ech). We two arriving together never failed to amuse the gate guards, as I recall. No Dutchman (or woman) speaks less than three languages, one being English, so they wouldn’t miss it.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 30 2012 4:21 utc | 15

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 30, 2012 12:21:01 AM | 15
If you factor in US election time that rumor is probably untrue.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 30 2012 6:30 utc | 16

equally, If one factors in your propensity for lies and incredibly unsound reasoning, all your statements are unreliable and/or moronic

Posted by: aham | Oct 30 2012 7:12 utc | 17

It is official now:
Libyan Defence minister says army chief has “no control” over Bani Walid
“The head of the Libyan armed forces, General Yousef Mangoush, has no control over Bani Walid and civilians are being prevented from returning home by vigilante “gunmen”, Defence Minister Osama Juwaili has said.
In a scathing broadside, almost certain to be his last as defence minister ahead of Prime Minister-elect Ali Zidan’s expected announcement of a new government later today, Juwaili said the hilltop town was near-deserted as a result of the fighting and that the small number of people who remain are living in terrible conditions.
“The chief of staff has no control over the town and therefore armed men are able to prevent families from coming back”, the minister was quoted as saying by AFP, following a televised speech on Monday.
“The town is completely empty except for a small number of people who are living in tragic conditions; there is no activity; the impact of shelling is visible everywhere”.
He went on to describe soldiers controlling the checkpoint leading into the town as “gunmen”.
In his first public statement on Bani Walid, Juwaili claimed that as many as 40,000 people had been displaced by the conflict out of a town reckoned to be home to some 80,000 residents. As at 22 October, the International Committee of the Red Cross said that some 25,000 people had fled into the Urban area, to the northwest of Bani Walid, alone. The Libya Herald saw little sign of life on the morning of the 25 October visit.
The remarks are deeply at odds with the statement made last Friday by army spokesman Ali Al-Sheikhi, who said that refugees were being allowed to return to the town and that no reports of any “violations” against them had been received. He added that should any such incidents take place, then an immediate investigation into them would be launched.
Last Thursday, the Libya Herald witnessed forces from the Libya Shield brigade attempting to prevent thousands of returning refugees from entering Bani Walid, one day after the town was declared liberated by General Mangoush.
Following altercations with several residents, one officer was seen shoving a pistol in the face of a civilian before firing it in the air. A 14.5mm heavy machine gun was then fired over the heads of the crowd, which contained several children. Other reporters witnessed similar scenes later in the day.”
So what is next?

Posted by: somebody | Oct 30 2012 8:14 utc | 18

As one with ties to Algeria, and as one who is strongly considering moving there, I’ve tried to follow developments there. The US operates a base at Tamrasset, in the South. This is an airbase, and no doubt the equivalent of Sahel-com. Events in Mali are no more a threat to Algeria than would Mexicans running into the Gadsen Purchase Area. 95% of the Algerian population lives within 50 miles of the Mediterranean.
I have tremendous respect for Boutiflika, who is Algeria’s president, an old Technocrat and a deft leader. He’s deepened cooperation with the US, while keeping US at arms length. I was a big fan of Erdogon/Turkey’s resurgence, and thought they would lead the Mediterranean Muslims out of this era. It may be Algeria that leads the way. This is perhaps preferable, as Algeria’s greatness is long forgotten (dating back to the Moors and Omayyad dynasty that ruled Spain.)
What happens in Mali is of no great consequence to Algeria. I hope they can steer clear of getting too deeply involved. However, their base at Tamrasset is key to operating in that theatre, but there ain’t nothing near Tamrasset (Google Earth it and span out) Perhaps the biggest, unstated strategic aspect of the area, including both Tamrasset and Mali is the trans-Saharan highway, that draws the annual Dakar rallies. This is a venerable trade route and Mali and Tamrasset are right on it.
This is an interesting development to follow, but I don’t fear for Algeria. They fared well through the Arab Spring as they may be the most democratic country, certainly in the Magreb. Investment in telecom, highways and housing has been incredible over the last decade and many Algerians are more sanguine about their country than they ever have been, and for good reason.

Posted by: scottindallas | Oct 30 2012 13:19 utc | 19

The US is also salivating over getting control of the drug trade. While Afghanistan produced only 185 tons of opium per year under the Taliban, according to the UN statistics, since the US-led invasion drug production has surged to 3,400 tons annually.
Clinton in Algeria: “We had a in-depth discussion of the region and particularly the situation in Mali,” including the “terrorist and drug trafficking threat that is posed to the region and beyond.”

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 30 2012 14:57 utc | 20

? scottindallas 19 ?
“This is an interesting development to follow, but I don’t fear for Algeria. They fared well through the Arab Spring as they may be the most democratic country, certainly in the Magreb. Investment in telecom, highways and housing has been incredible over the last decade and many Algerians are more sanguine about their country than they ever have been, and for good reason. ”
compare to Jadalliya
n 1992, a coup d’etat removed President Chadli Benjedid from office and brought about nineteen years of a “state of emergency.” Consequently, Algeria adopted a comprehensive model of counterinsurgency against armed Islamist groups that was a paradigm of hegemonic control: Gendarmerie roadblocks and checkpoints proliferated throughout the country to play a double-edged role as possible deterrents to terrorism but also as an effective means to harass and shakedown the population. On February 24, 2011, responding to the pressure of events in neighboring North African states, President Abdelaziz Bouteflika lifted the state of emergency in effect throughout the country. Only Algiers remains in a state of exception, meaning that forming associations or participating in marches and demonstrations continue to be prohibited absent official authorizations rarely granted. …
Despite internal military struggles during the 1990s black decade of Algeria’s civil war, their murky ties to Algeria’s vast hydrocarbon sector, and little knowledge about individual identities, it is the case that the Algerian military and its leaders remain a shadowy force — outside any civilian framework and unaccountable to any institution but itself.”
There are all kinds of good reasons to feel sympathy with Algeria – the country being a democracy is not one of them.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 30 2012 15:41 utc | 21

@ scottinDallas
What #21 really means is that the Algerian Security services adopted the US-UK-Israeli preferred CO-IN strategy, and behaved exactly as the NATO-Israeli mercenary armies in both Libya and Syria have behaved. #21 claimed for a long time that both of those NATO-mercenary armies (in fact pretty much the same bunch of mercenaries, operating under two different names) were not behaving in that manner, long after it was obvious even to a blind-retard that they were.
Now here he is Manslain-ing again, without ever bothering to mention that the Algeria GIA strategy was identical to the NATO strategy currently being played out in both Libya and Syria
That is additional info one might need to make sense of events in Algeria 20-15 yrs ago, and events in Libya and Syria ight now, but of course Mr Mansplainer @21 didn’t bother to mention any of it.
But then why would he? That’s not his job, obviously.

Posted by: ahem | Oct 30 2012 16:24 utc | 22

P.S: I’m pretty certain scottindallas probably knows all of this anyway, so I doubt he needed any of it Mansplained to him in the first place

Posted by: ahem | Oct 30 2012 16:28 utc | 23

thanks ahem for clearing that up, I did not want to darken Algeria’s image that much as Scottindallas has personal connections there.
As I am beginning to enjoy winding you up let me add that Turkey and Quatar feature in the case of Algeria, too.
“Concerns are mounting in Algeria over the funding of Islamist political parties in the country’s May 15th election. Even before the official start of campaigning on April 15th, several parties had been accused of accepting funding from abroad.
The leader of the Workers’ Party caused a stir initially with allegations that unnamed Islamist parties had received financial support from Qatar and Turkey. At a February 19th party meeting, Louisa Hanoune questioned the “reasons why three Islamist parties have travelled to Qatar”, and called on the government to ensure that no foreign funding was received.
Also in February, Seddik Chihab, a senior member of the National Democratic Rally, claimed that Islamists were “travelling to Turkey and Qatar to pick up a few dollars and coming back to sell us their religious model”.
This statement forced the question of campaign financing to the top of the national agenda”

Posted by: somebody | Oct 30 2012 17:04 utc | 24

“thanks ahem for clearing that up, I did not want to darken Algeria’s image that much as Scottindallas has personal connections there.”
suuuuure you didn’t
experience shows that you’re all about presenting positive images of Arab and Muslim countries alright <-------sarcasm

Posted by: ahem | Oct 30 2012 17:25 utc | 25

U.S. can’t produce $1 billion of fuel receipts in Iraq
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers cannot produce about $1 billion of receipts for fuel and other supplies it bought in Iraq using Iraqi money, a government investigation has found.
The total amount of funds unaccounted for has now reached a staggering $7 billion, officials say — and they warn that the Iraqi government is likely to demand at least some of that money back.

Posted by: Star69 | Oct 30 2012 17:30 utc | 26

dear comrades and friends,
don’t make yourself an uninformed fool; before you speculate about uranium mining in Mali, mixing up the country with neighbouring Niger, their uranium mines at Agadez a 1500 km to the east from Timbuktou, go and visit this website, everything you need to know about urnaium:
http://www.wise-uranium.org/index.html
Mali
General · Faléa > See also Issues for: Operating Mines · Decommissioning Projects · Legislation & Regulations
> See also Data for: Deposits, Proposed and Active Mines · Old Mines and Decommissioning
The following companies are performing uranium prospection and/or exploration in Mali: Cascade Resources Ltd. external link, Northern Canadian Uranium Inc. external link, Rockgate Capital Corp. external link, Oklo Uranium Ltd external link

Posted by: thomas | Oct 30 2012 18:46 utc | 27

“don’t make yourself an uninformed fool;”
why the rude aggressiveness? – anyone can make a mistake, and this mistake was already corrected @ #8

Posted by: Star69 | Oct 30 2012 18:58 utc | 28