Is there then any real difference between the Bush and Obama regime?
– from previous thread.
No, in the sense that Obama is a sharp forward extension of Bush, on war, civil liberties, torture, Gitmo, tracking terrorists, the security state, etc. Pandering to and supporting the non-State actors (Banks, corps) and neglecting the ppl.
(The drift predates G. W. Bush.)
Obama has gone a tad further.
Step by step (whistle blowers etc.) and thrashing the separation of powers. The Pres. now has the right to kill anyone, etc.
Yes, One example, Education.
Bush’s program, despised and derided by ‘reasonable’, whatever that means, educators, teachers, state authorities, was:
No Child Left Behind.
Skip the criticism, it still upheld public education and paying for it. Laura Bush had a hand, I guess.
Obama’s progr. is:
Race to the Top
It is boondogle of confusion, in favor of charter schools, aka privatization, vouchers, corps and edu publishers, content creators, computer sellers, with a plethora of nonsensical obligatory measures > the public sector (e.g. figuring all student progress year by year, in each topic, all teacher performance rated – favoring admins, authority and control over teachers.)
Nutty and detrimental competition between states to comply with ‘standard numbers, targets, etc.’ for ‘fed money’..
Wiki has a mild, soothing and low level technical description, basic info, which leaves a lot out, nevertheless telling:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_the_Top
Practically everything Obama has speechified re. Edu. is contrary to his elsewhere stated and enforced policies; all his moves are in favor of an elite, upper strata (imho) and providers, corps, who can make money, etc. which he hides under glib talk.
The truth of the matter is that he never thought about basic education, understands nothing, reads nothing, cares not at all, and listens to phony experts of his choosing, for about 5 mins, and yeah, that is good to go. (Actually it is worse than that but enough.)

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 24 2012 18:44 utc | 3

Obama is a republican, Romney has surrounded himself with former Bush Jr. advisers, and a vote for Jill Stein is a waste (if she’s even on the ballot in your state), so what can we do?

Posted by: Kanzanian | Oct 24 2012 19:07 utc | 5

What can we do?
I live in a rural area and can only vote absentee.
When I received my ballot it went straight into the trash.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24 2012 19:37 utc | 7

Is there then any real difference between the Bush and Obama regime?
Well, for starters, Obama likes smaller footprint operations–easier to hide from the American people.
Also, Obama will succeed in gutting Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and unemployment insurance and make the Bush tax cuts permanent. This will be done in the interim period or interregnum between November 6 and January 31, a magnified repeat of what went down in December 2010. This is why he was groomed to be the President.
People will finally get to see what a truly despicable person Obama is, though Democrats will continue to rush to his defense, saying he was forced into it. Right! Nasty Republicans will shoulder the blame, even though they control only one house of Congress.
It’s like the despotic King of Morocco. Moroccans say what a wonderful person he is; it’s his advisers who are awful! Of course, criticizing the king can have dire consequences, probably soon coming to a “democracy” near you.

Posted by: JohnH | Oct 24 2012 19:58 utc | 9

It seems like the Pals are in fact offering up an austere challenge.
austere:
1. Severe or stern in disposition or appearance; somber and grave
2. Strict or severe in discipline
3. Having no adornment or ornamentation; bare
On the Israel side, it’s not so austere.
Israel didn’t buy Iron Dome on its own. America chipped in $200 million, and if a proposal in next year’s defense bill becomes law, that number will increase to around $900 million. (Each Iron Dome installation costs about $50 million, plus another $62,000 per interceptor.)
Intercepting a $800 Kassam rocket with a $62,000 Iron Dome missile does not make financial sense.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24 2012 20:15 utc | 11

@Don #11:

Intercepting a $800 Kassam rocket with a $62,000 Iron Dome missile does not make financial sense.

That’s entirely a matter of perspective, I believe.

Posted by: Dr. Wellington Yueh | Oct 24 2012 21:32 utc | 13

@DWY
It’s also a sign of the times, with cheap weapons (like IED’s) available to partisans which prevail over expensive, complicated military forces and machines. The Iron Dome is not only expensive but its complexity makes it vulnerable, similar to the “trillion-dollar” (program) F-35.
General Cartwright: “We built the F-35 with absolutely no protection for it from a cyber standpoint.” This is a fighter aircraft that will serve as the backbone of the United States aviation for decades, and is already hampered by problems millions lines of software code.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24 2012 22:06 utc | 15

Many countries have Stingers and they are produced under license in Turkey. -wiki

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24 2012 22:19 utc | 17

Ben @ #5 Well said, epecially about being on this site. I like the way “b”, arguably perhaps,some would say, isn’t obsessed with a narrow subject range, choosing instead to cover a wide range of topics. His research brings up all sorts of Outa-Left-Field type stuff!! and one would miss a wealth of other information if one didn’t peruse the comments section as well. Most comment sections soon deteriorate into verbal stoushes, this one being one of the few exceptions . . .with trolls being I.D.ed swiftly and dealt with.

Posted by: DontNnSUName | Oct 25 2012 0:02 utc | 19

@ Noirette,
Q: sorry for double post, i really don’t understand how that happens.
R: Click twice. It’s not rocket science.

Posted by: Daniel Rich | Oct 25 2012 1:02 utc | 21

The Gaza rocket assault was a counter to IDF attacks on Gaza.
Israel Defense, Oct 24, 2012

More than 50 rockets and mortar bombs were fired towards Israel since the night hours, and five homes suffered direct impacts. The Iron Dome system successfully intercepted seven rockets fired towards Israel.
In light of the fire, a decision was made not to open schools this morning in the areas of the Eshkol, Shaar Hanegev and Sdot Negev regional councils, and citizens were advised to stay in protected areas. The Safir Academic Collage near Sderot also decided that classes will not take place.
The projectile assault occurred after the IDF attacked several targets in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday. The IDF attacks followed the severe wounding of an IDF officer after a roadside explosive charge detonated in the area of the border fence at Kisufim, near the central region of the Gaza Strip. Hamas has vowed to “avenge” the IDF attacks of the past few days.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 25 2012 2:49 utc | 23

Zio-Wiess? Sorry to hear that you were banned from MW. Obviously under another name, but nevertheless, it was just as well. Here is the problem in a nutshell, you say: “but dare to take a swipe at the corrosive influence of Religious racism inherent in traditional Judaism”. I see all religions as basically racist. To focus on Judaism is, in my opinion, simply antisemitic. MW has recognized that fact and has decided to remove that discussion from his blog. Perhaps b will allow you to bring it here, but I certainly hope not.

Posted by: ToivoS | Oct 25 2012 4:16 utc | 25

prologue
***********
lots of folks swear by the atimes
but its s/n ratio is 50/50 at best
its narrative on china is particularly toxic
*outshining* the likes of wapo, washington times etc
is it *progressive* ?
u be the judge
**************************
Francesco Sisci stikes again,
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/NJ25Ad02.html
as some readers have pointed out, anybody who lauds the fukus duopoly as a model of *democracy* must be smoking some damned good stuff.
in his previous *master piece*, the clown claimed that *President Barack Obama’s administration – felt it had done enough to help China keep the regional peace and stability necessary for its continued economic growth, without even being noticed or thanked for it* [sic]
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/NJ10Ad01.html
i asked sisci what has he been smoking lately
no show !
not unexpected really, i’ve been persona non grata there since 2000 !
here’s my rant
*******************************
China bashing at Atimes has reached surreal dimension with sisci’s “analsysis”.
First, he called China a “bully”
As reader Shuami has already pointed out, China has an exemplary record of border settlement with 12 countries , mostly military midgets except Russia.
In order to reach an amicable and speedy settlement, China often ceded the major part or even the whole of the disputed area to its tiny neighbours.
The remaining unresolved border disputes are with India , Bhutan.
Sisci would have us believe that a China which deferred to tiny Nepal, Burma, Laos etc would then choose to “bully” Amerikan allies Philippines and Japan, a military heavy weight in its own rights. Especially after Hillary and Panetta have announced in no uncertain terms that these countries are its “protectorates” !!
As for his claim that Amerika has been the “peace keeper” in Asia. [sic]
Its time to wake up and smell the coffee sir,
There’s a perfect blend offered by the Texan Hardy Campbell in Atimes
Have you sampled it yet ?
Here’s a real gem.
“President Barack Obama’s administration – felt it had done enough to help China keep the regional peace and stability necessary for its continued economic growth, without even being noticed or thanked for it” [sic]
I almost choked on my coffee reading this.
shouldn’t Sisci’s “thesis” belong to the “satire” section Mr editor ?
for the kind of overt and covert attacks Amerika has inflicted on China since 1949.
In Tibet, xinjiang, Tienanmen, Africa, Afpak, South China sea, East China sea etc
http://tinyurl.com/8rsgfx7
http://tinyurl.com/97lp7yv
[just a sample, the tip of the iceberg]
China ought to send a big thank you note to Amerika, attached to the nose of a missile !
Ironically, Sisci should have chosen this metaphor…
“it would be delusional to think that with a few steps the US could fix the massive damage on the ground. It takes minutes to burn down a house, but it takes months or years to rebuild it”
ever heard about the world’s first fire Brigade ?
“In 70 BC, an ambitious minor politician and extremely wealthy man, Marcus Licinius Crassus, wanted to rule Rome. Just to give you an idea of what sort of man Crassus really was, he is credited with invention of the fire brigade. But in Crassus’ version, his fire-fighting slaves would race to the scene of a burning building whereupon Crassus would offer to buy it on the spot for a tiny fraction of its worth. If the owner sold, Crassus’ slaves would put out the fire. If the owner refused to sell, Crassus allowed the building to burn to the ground. By means of this device, Crassus eventually came to be the largest single private land holder in Rome”
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ARTICLE5/index.php
well, the 21 century’s Crassus is more enterprising.
When “business” is slow, uncle scam would send out his slaves to scout for prime properties and set fire to it. When the call comes in, he and his merry men would be there in a jiffy, all set to make another lucrative acquisition.
In a nutshell, That’s what your “peace keeper”, Amerika, has been doing since 1898.
Mr Sisci.
**********************************
persona non grata at atimes since 2000

Posted by: denk | Oct 25 2012 5:30 utc | 27

ToivoS sees “all religions as basically racist”, and thinks it’s anti-semitic to focus on Judaism in particular. But God chose the Jews. So God must be anti-semitic!

Posted by: Bob Jackson | Oct 25 2012 8:33 utc | 29

Let me explain first why I am asking the following rethorical question. Human beings have a tendency to be tribal, racist, patriotic, jingoistic. It is our operating system. All we can do is to fight that in ourselves and where we happen to live. To fight it – or “discuss it” in other countries or cultures is futile. If you want to discuss the ethics and rationality of US foreign policy that is another issue.
Why not also discuss this Gallup poll
Majority of Americans Say Racism Against Blacks Widespread
More than three-quarters of blacks say racism against blacks is widespread
or this
Racial Discrimination in European Memberstates
“A poll in Germany in 1989 found that 79% of the population found there
were too many foreigners in Germany. Between 1990 and 1991 the
number of racist criminal offenses increased by 400 percent, with 900
attacks in the month of October 1991 alone. In 1990, Italy also saw an
increase in the number of violent racists attacks. In Spain, each year since
1985 there have been incidents in which parents have refused to send their
children to schools in which gypsy children are present, or have prevented
the latter from attending school.”
And we have recently just found out that our secret service has been very closely linked to racist murderers …

Posted by: somebody | Oct 25 2012 8:43 utc | 31

@ Tovio
You seem to have some reading comprehension problems.
I’ve never posted at Mondoweiss, and I never said anything about being banned, so I don’t know from where you got the idea that I was banned.
I’ve read it many times, because sometimes there’s a lot to learned from the commenters – Hostage for instance (You? – not so much)
You claim that the purge is to do with “racism” yet for years MW has allowed, and still generally allows, the most vile racist crap imaginable to be posted by Zionists @ MW – and still will allow it after this purge.- comments by hophmi to name but one.
Witty was allowed posted proven lies for years, the man racked up a total of over 10,000 comments before Weiss finally decided to halt his deliberate trolling sometime early this year. But several other extremely racist, and frequently prone to lying, pro-Israeli commenters still post there – most of those people are there simply to shout “antisemitism” and anyone making a valid point, as a quick look at virtually any comment thread would confirm.
You say that you consider all religions racist, yet @ MW people are allowed a very wide margin to criticize Christianity and Islam – but similar criticism of Judaism is not allowed. That is real racism. One law for those that criticize Judaism and one for those that criticize other religions. Why? because Weiss has stated that his primary aim is “a conversation with Judaism” – even by his own statements it’s clear that the plight of the Palestinians is not his main concern. Many people that read MW are not aware of that. They have been fooled into believing that Weiss is truly Pro-Palestinian – but he’s not. He’s merely out to protect Judaism from itself. The Palestinians come a distant second to that.
Tovio – “To focus on Judaism is, in my opinion, simply antisemitic”
It would be if that’s what the problem was but the problem is actually that Weiss won’t allow criticism of that Judaism while allowing criticism of other religions.
And now we know why – as Daniel Rich pointed out – Weiss is now trying to please Salon – obviously he’s making a move for “Mainstream respectability” and doesn’t want to upset the “respectability-apple-cart” by becoming the target for charges of “Antisemitism” no matter how baseless. It’s a pointless excersize because the Zionist Racists will accuse him of it anyway – that’s what they do.
They make baseless charges, operating on the principle that if you fling enough dirt some of it will stick. Pandering to these people is a waste of time – I’m certain Weiss will live to regret it
Pathetic.
The shameful manner in which Weiss and his Zio-lite-in-disguise cronies piled onto Greta Berlin was an embarrassment to any thinking rational person – it had all the hallmarks of a witchhunt.
Personally I’d be ashamed to be associated with any such site. Thankfully for me it’s not something anyone can ever accuse me of – though it should be noted that it’s almost the first thing you said about me.
MW is a disgrace, and anyone that considers themselves a supporter of the rights of the Palestinians should disassociate themselves from it immediately – Weiss, by his own admission, is concerned primarily with the effect of the IP conflict on Judaism – the Palestinians are but an afterthought
Palestinians don’t need fair-weather friends like that. Weiss is obviously more concerned with not offending racist Jewish people in the US than he is with defending the rights of Palestinians – consequently he should change the focus of his site and stop pretending to be a defender of the rights of Palestinians, because he’s not – he’s primarily concerned with Judaism and should have the honesty to be state that clearly.
Tovio – “Obviously under another name, but nevertheless, it was just as well.”
It was just as well I was banned – even though I wasn’t?

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 25 2012 12:03 utc | 33

the vast majority of the commentary seems to revolve are the differences between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism – basically the Zionist racists are allowed to frame the debate because Weiss yearns to seen as “respectable” by his own Jewish community, which is composed mainly of supporters of Israel. Trying to kiss the asses of those people is a waste of time if you’re not prepared to eviscerate your commentary of any meaningful criticism of the racist nature of Israelis and Judaism.

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 25 2012 12:15 utc | 35

Bot Tak @ 36, thanks for the link. If we hear anything in the Corporate media on this issue, it will be a miracle. Government transparency, what a concept.

Posted by: ben | Oct 25 2012 15:02 utc | 37

Reminds me of my being knocked off The Atlantic recently because I countered Jeffery Goldberg’s Zionist, probably racist arguments against Persians which involved my criticism of not only Goldberg but also Israel. I appealed to Steve Clemons whom I have blogged with for years, going back to Washington Note, since he’s now an editor at The Atlantic, and a man whom I have defended against attacks many times on both Washington Note and The Atlantic, without a response from him. Perhaps it went in his junk mail and he didn’t know about my being banned. It’s possible, I guess.
Recently I commented at MW with the State Department document I have posted here on “the new anti-semitism” (defined as criticism of Israel) and got put down for it by MW, which I didn’t understand.
So, to me, this is a serious matter regarding freedom of speech in favor of the Zionists. The problem mostly comes from Israel being (1) a dangerous, irresponsible country and (2) a blatant clearly self-identified Jewish State, and we aren’t allowed to talk about it on some forums.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 25 2012 15:12 utc | 39

@34, not quite. The invigilators at MWeiss are hit and miss. I’ve heard both sides complain they’re being censored. True, Weiss seems to think Israel can be preserved, but I’ve read comments there calling for its “removal from the map”.

Posted by: ruralito | Oct 25 2012 15:41 utc | 41

President Barack Obama’s administration – felt it had done enough to help China keep the regional peace and stability necessary for its continued economic growth, without even being noticed or thanked for it
My attention to symbols and details is a way of making fun. I’ll stop if told it is pesky or thread clogging.
Obama’s watch, worn much of the time since 2007, a chronograph given to him by the Secret Service, is made in China, with a Japanese movement. Plenty have noticed this and commented on it, in China and Switzerland.
http://www.onthedash.com/docs/obama.html

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 25 2012 15:52 utc | 43

President Barack Obama’s administration – felt it had done enough to help China keep the regional peace and stability necessary for its continued economic growth, without even being noticed or thanked for it
My attention to symbols and details is a way of making fun. I’ll stop if told it is pesky or thread clogging.
Obama’s watch, worn much of the time since 2007, a chronograph given to him by the Secret Service, is made in China, with a Japanese movement. Plenty have noticed this and commented on it, in China and Switzerland.
http://www.onthedash.com/docs/obama.html

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 25 2012 15:52 utc | 45

Click “Post” just once, will you?
pretty please?

Posted by: Star69 | Oct 25 2012 15:54 utc | 47

US deploys troops to Turkey amid Syria unrest: US General
The commanding general of the US Army Europe (USAREUR) says the Pentagon has recently sent a number of American soldiers to Turkey in a bid to assist Ankara in handling the spillover of the Syrian crisis.
“We have had a relatively few number of US Army Europe personnel in Turkey recently,” Turkey’s Hurriyet newspaper quoted Lieutenant General Mark Phillip Hertling as saying.
The general added, “Some of that has been sharing intelligence.”

Posted by: Star69 | Oct 25 2012 19:08 utc | 49

and MW is joining them
It’s trying to make itself more palatable to the ‘mainstream’.
But the mainstream debate is framed by Zionist-watchdogs, ready at any minute to scream “Anti-Semite” at a moments notice at anyone daring to offer real analysis and ask smart questions about why things are that way.
So MW has decided to play by the rules set by the Zionists racists. And they will regret it – they’ll be neutered as the rules change and the bounds of ‘acceptable discourse’ become narrower and narrower. You can’t win by playing by the rules dictated by your opponent.
It’s still not ok in most places to even mention the existence of the Jewish Lobby – it’s not even ok to call it the “Jewish lobby” in most places, though there really isn’t any other accurate way of describing it – the fools at MW want to pretend it’s a “Zionist lobby”, or an “Israel Lobby”, so that no one can ever say “oh he said ‘Jewish’ : he must be an Anti-Semite’.
They want to cower behind some Jewish person, to follow their lead, so they fawn over Weiss because he occasional adopts a sane attitude to the Jewish influence on the US, but only occasionally. They hope that having a Jewish person as their leader will protect them from the dreaded curse of being singled out as an Anti-semite by the racists on the Zionist side.
But pretending it’s a “zionist” or “Israeli” Lobby is nonsense, it’s not.
It’s a Jewish Lobby.
So, even if there’s a few Shabbas-goyim sprinkled throughout, it’s still a Jewish Lobby.
But don’t say that at MW, or the MW-Anti-Anti-Semite brigade, masquerading as a Pro-Palestinian brigade, will start sharpening their knives. Because they feel the need to constantly validate that THEY are Anti-Zionists, and not Anti-Semites, and THAT is why they all participated in the crucifixion of Greta Berlin. It is also why every comment-section descends into a stupid repetitive discussion about how they are Anti-Zionists not Anti-semites.
Weiss facilitates all of that, maybe not deliberately, by letting the ultra-racists scream Anti-Semite all the time, which allows these racists to control the discourse.
And that is why I’ve never bothered to post there.
And all of the above is why the US liberal/Progressive Pro-Palestinian groups are the most useless bunch of political activists on the planet.
After years of effort they haven’t gained an inch of ground against the Jewish Lobby. If anything they’ve lost ground dramatically

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 25 2012 20:23 utc | 51

It’s much worse than you think.
Before the last election William Hague was chairman of something the Conservative Friends of Israel, which is one wing of the UK Jewish Lobby. He is now the current UK Foreign Secretary. Damned convenient that, for the UK Jewish attempts to protect Israelis from well-earned criticism.
Last time I checked at least 50% of Conservative MPs in the UK parliament were members of the UK Conservative Friends of Israel.
The other wing of the UK Jewish Lobby is naturally the Labour Friends of Israel (there’s probably a LibDem Friends of Israel as well)
After Blair and Brown buggered-off to spend more time with their money, The UK Labour party held an election for a new leader – by the last week of that campaign there were only 2 candidates left in the running – by some miraculous twist of random fate, both had the surname Milliband, both Jewish, both supporters of Israel, actual brothers. Tweedledum and Tweedledee. Some democracy, no?
Vote for the Jewish Zionist on the left or the Jewish Zionist on the right,
They will occasionally pretend to voice some criticism, but only of the most outrageous excesses of the Jewish State, occasions when the pools of blood cannot simply just be ignored and some sort of statement is unavoidable, but every time they actually had an opportunity to vote for some sort of censure for Israel from the UK, they sided with the Jewish state.
All of this in a country where the Jewish population is estimated at approx 30,000. That is less than 1% of the whole UK population.
How does something like that happen?
Even the Paddies next door have a Jewish, and Zionist naturally, Minister for Justice. Their numbers there would not even amount to 2,000, if even that. Yet, from what I have been told, there has always been at least one Jewish MP in the Parliament there.
Again, how does that happen?
It’s a more than fair question to ask, but ask it and you’ll be accused of being a rabid foaming at the mouth Jew-hater, just dying for an opportunity to spark-up a few ovens.
“To learn who rules you simply find out who you are not allowed to Criticize”- Voltaire

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 25 2012 22:29 utc | 53

Learn to read, you dope
No one ever said that Tony Blair, Gordon Brown & William Hague- and also David Cameron were Jewish. BUT both the Millibands are.

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 25 2012 23:41 utc | 55

@ Noah #54
This may be a bogus comment. The Noah Tucker at the name link writes about Israel differently than the over-the-top language in #54 by “Noah.”

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 25 2012 23:55 utc | 57

here’s comes the MondoWeiss cavalry to the rescue, their carbines primed and loaded with bullets of pure self-righteous sanctimonious indignation to bravely defend the rights of downtrodden beleaguered and oppressed upper-class British Politicians to whore for Israel.
The world can rest easy now that they’re on the hunt.

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 26 2012 0:45 utc | 59

British Prime Minister David Cameron, is also a member of the Conservative Friends of Israel.
But that’s not interesting at all. Such information couldn’t help anyone figure out anything, could it? No of course not.

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 26 2012 1:02 utc | 61

one of the greatest fictions alive today is a thing called ‘american democracy’…youd have more luck finding a leprachaun!
NOW if Venezuela had refused or sought to arrest foreign election monitors, FUKUSA would have gone ballistic, called venezuela a dictatorship, aimed sanctions at and invaded Venezuela and installed a few puppets…..SO what do we say when we have the following!
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2012/10/25/american-democracy-international-election-monitors-to-be-arrested-in-texas/
will US be charged with undemocratic behaviour?

Posted by: brian | Oct 26 2012 5:53 utc | 63

@ Zio-Weiss?,
Have you ever been fortunate enough to see a dominant alpha wolf in action? If not, perhaps on TV? The way the rest of the group behaves, reminds me of what I see on both sides of the pond[UK and the US] It makes me sick to the stomach to have to watch this spineless groveling time and time again. One president wrote a letter:
Dear Mr. Prime Minister [Eshkol]:
It gives me great personal pleasure to extend congratulations as you assume your responsibilities as Prime Minister of Israel. You have our friendship and best wishes in your new tasks. It is on one of these that I am writing you at this time.
You are aware, I am sure, of the exchange which I had with Prime Minister Ben-Gurion concerning American visits to Israel’s nuclear facility at Dimona. Most recently, the Prime Minister wrote to me on May 27. His words reflected a most intense personal consideration of a problem that I know is not easy for your Government, as it is not for mine. We welcomed the former Prime Minister’s strong reaffirmation that Dimona will be devoted exclusively to peaceful purposes and the reaffirmation also of Israel’s willingness to permit periodic visits to Dimona.
I regret having to add to your burdens so soon after your assumption of office, but I feel the crucial importance of this problem necessitates my taking up with you at this early date certain further considerations, arising out of Mr. Ben-Gurion’s May 27 letter, as to the nature and scheduling of such visits.
I am sure you will agree that these visits should be as nearly as possible in accord with international standards, thereby resolving all doubts as to the peaceful intent of the Dimona project. As I wrote Mr. Ben-Gurion, this Government’s commitment to and support of Israel could be seriously jeopardized if it should be thought that we were unable to obtain reliable information on a subject as vital to the peace as the question of Israel’s effort in the nuclear field.
Therefore, I asked our scientists to review the alternative schedules of visits we and you had proposed. If Israel’s purposes are to be clear beyond reasonable doubt, I believe that the schedule which would best serve our common purposes would be a visit early this summer, another visit in June 1964, and thereafter at intervals of six months. I am sure that such a schedule should not cause you any more difficulty than that which Mr. Ben-Gurion proposed in his May 27 letter. It would be essential, and I understand that Mr. Ben-Gurion’s letter was in accord with this, that our scientist have access to all areas of the Dimona site and to any related part of the complex, such as fuel fabrication facilities or plutonium separation plant, and that sufficient time to be allotted for a thorough examination.
Knowing that you fully appreciate the truly vital significance of this matter to the future well-being of Israel, to the United States, and internationally, I am sure our carefully considered request will have your most sympathetic attention.
Sincerely,
John F. Kennedy
(July 5, 1963)
[(Israel State Archive, Jerusalem. For more information, reference Israel and the Bomb, by Avner Cohen, pages 153-162)]
We all know how that story ended. Back and to the left, back and to the left, back and to the left…
Bill Hicks about it @ http://www.youtube.com/watch%3fv=4_XnKjS3oWs

Posted by: Daniel Rich | Oct 26 2012 9:11 utc | 65

Talking about the trails and tribulations of a web site is one thing, because it is a thing, but when you talk about Phil Weiss [here on MoA], he doesn’t really have a chance to defend himself now, does he?
Daniel – it’s the internet. It’s not like I’ve convened a special meeting hidden away somewhere on a remote island in order to assure Mr Weiss’ non-attendance or anything. Mr Weiss is just as capable as anyone here, I’m sure, of clicking on a link, reading what’s written here and the filling in a reply at the bottom of this page and pressing the little “Post” button that everyone uses to post here.
BUT: if you think it should have been posted at MW then you have my permission to open an account @ MW and cross-post everything I have posted here on the subject.
But I suspect it would be a waste of time – I suspect, but admittedly I’m not certain, that it would not pass moderation there. But anyone here is welcome to prove me wrong on that score.
If Mr Weiss wishes to come here and reply I’ll be only too happy to respectfully hear what man has to say, and engage him in conversation.
That would actually be far more than Mr Weiss did, before he lead a witch-hunt against Greta Berlin.

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 26 2012 13:26 utc | 67

actually, Daniel, Weiss has stated that his main aim is to “have a conversation with Judaism” and that is his right, and I don’t attack him for that. I’m merely attacking the erroneous perception that his main aim is Pro-Palestinian activism.
It occurs to me that I have been actually expressed a far harsher judgement against the majority of the commenters at MW, the Anti-Anti-Semite-Pretend-Pro-Palestinian crowd, than I have of Weiss himself.
As anyone can see, the resident-MOA MondoWeiss representative behaved exactly as I predicted an MW’er would behave – he immediately started chanting “Anti-Semite”, I presume it is because I dared to use the word “Jewish” instead of some false description such as “Zionist” or “Israeli”

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 26 2012 13:45 utc | 69

correction
Last sentence should read:
Apparently, according to the resident-MOA representative of the MondoWeiss-Anti-Anti-Semitic-Pretend-Pro-Palestinian-Crowd, posting at #58 above, it is a sure sign of “anti-semitism” to dare to even point this out

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 26 2012 14:39 utc | 71

Has David Miliband Changed His Spots?
By Stuart Littlewood
Medical Aid for Palestinians (MAP) has been providing vital help to vulnerable Palestinian communities ever since the Sabra and Shatila massacre 30 years ago.
Eyebrows therefore shot up when MAP announced that former foreign secretary David Miliband will be speaking at its Annual Gala Fundraising Dinner tomorrow (Thursday) held in the posh Sheraton Park Lane Hotel.
It seems he’ll be talking about his visit to the West Bank and Gaza.
Miliband will be forever remembered as the British foreign secretary who shamelessly groveled to Israel’s gangsters for forgiveness for their running the risk of arrest if they set foot in London.
And he’ll be remembered for not having the guts to go visit Gaza, or even Iran while in office.
Back in 2009 Ehud Barak, Tzipi Livni and retired general Doron Almog, cancelled engagements in London for fear of being arrested. Israel complained bitterly
Miliband actually apologized to Livni and Israeli foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman for the arrest warrant issued against Livni. He promised Lieberman to begin working immediately to change the UK laws relating to ‘universal jurisdiction’. He asked Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Justice Minister Jack Straw to find an urgent solution.
But the general election overtook him. Miliband’s groveling promise was echoed by his replacement, William Hague, who announced: “We have had good discussions with Israeli ministers on Universal Jurisdiction where the last government left us with an appalling situation where a politician like Mrs. Livni could be threatened with arrest on coming to the UK…”
He said it was “completely unacceptable… We have agreed in the coalition about putting it right, we will put it right through legislation… later this year and I phoned Mrs. Livni amongst others to tell her about that and received a very warm welcome for our proposals”.
Never mind that British law was operating perfectly properly. The warrants were issued to answer well-founded charges. Under universal jurisdiction all states that are party to the Geneva Conventions are under a binding obligation to seek out those suspected of having committed grave breaches of the Conventions and bring them, regardless of nationality, to justice. There should be no hiding place for those suspected of crimes against humanity and war crimes. Applications could be made to a court for private arrest warrants, and this had been happening because the government itself was in the habit of shirking its duty under the Fourth 1949 Geneva Convention and dragging its feet until the bird has flown.
The beauty of the private warrant is that it can be issued speedily.
Bringing a private prosecution for a criminal offence is an ancient right in common law and, in the words of Lord Wilberforce, “a valuable constitutional safeguard against inertia or partiality on the part of the authority.”
Lord Diplock, another respected Lord of Appeal, called it “a useful safeguard against capricious, corrupt or biased failure or refusal of those authorities to prosecute offenders against the criminal law”.
Who can forget that Tzipi Livni, Israel’s former foreign minister, was largely responsible for the terror that brought unspeakable death and destruction to Gaza’s civilians during the blitzkrieg known as Operation Cast Lead?
Showing no remorse and with the blood of 1,400 dead Gazans (including 320 children and 109 women) on her hands, and thousands more horribly maimed, Livni’s office issued a statement saying she was proud of Operation Cast Lead. And speaking later at a conference at Tel Aviv’s Institute for Security Studies, she said: “I would today take the same decisions.”
In a sane world no British government minister would undermine our justice system in order to make the UK a safe haven for the likes of her.
Yet Miliband’s successor Hague said: “We cannot have a position where Israeli politicians feel they cannot visit this country. The situation is unsatisfactory [and] indefensible. It is absolutely my intention to act speedily.”
He even tried to make Livni’s monstrous crimes look good by claiming, as reported on the Conservative Friends of Israel website, that “the immediate trigger for this crisis [the war on Gaza] was the barrage of hundreds of rocket attacks against Israel on the expiry of the ceasefire or truce.” It is well known that the ceasefire didn’t expire. It was deliberately breached by an Israeli raid into Gaza that killed several Palestinians with the intention of provoking a response that would re-ignite the violence and provide an excuse to launch Operation Cast Lead, which the Israelis had been preparing for months

Posted by: Ed_Miliband | Oct 26 2012 16:11 utc | 73

the broad reads the jap *all the news without fear n favor* times, she ought to know what her country has been doing to the okinawans, or chagosians etc., but she doesnt give a damn.
never mind amerika’s serial aggressions, a supreme international crime under the nuremberg protocol, or the extra judicial killings in foreign countries.
but when uncle scam goaded his poodles in tokyo to poke the dragon’s eye over the diaoyu isle, predictably provoking mass demo in china, she feel free to offer the chinese this advice, why dont u return tibet ?* [sic]
typical fukusans , these self righteous blowhards manage to turn any discussion involving china, whether is about econ, arts, environment, food, sex , whatever, into the tibet issue.
such well trained parrots, er , *patriots* 😉
i offer her this councelling
*********************************************
dear lady
talking down to *lesser beings* seldom works, it always fall on deaf ears
a basic educational tenet says, *teach by good examples*
why not usa, that *shinning light on the hill*, show the way ?
may be, just may be, then the chinese would start to take u
seriously ?
****************************************************
no show !!
[persona non grata at jap *all the news without fear or favor* times., since 2000
🙁 ]

Posted by: denk | Oct 27 2012 3:11 utc | 75

Here’s an ad that appeared in the NYT that links Iran with Nukes and with spreading “terror” – http://i47.tinypic.com/1o95qo.jpg
obviously it’s aim is to promote the idea of a devastating military attack on Iran because of the imaginary “threat”, it is claimed repeatedly, that it poses.
At the bottom of the ad there are the logo’s of the 17 organisations which are financing this ad.
All 17 of them are Jewish organisations.
Every single one of them.
I’ll be called an Anti-Semite for pointing that out, but nonetheless it’s undeniable that all 17 organisations sponsoring this ad calling for “action” against Iran are Jewish Organisations.
So while some of the commenters here, those quite incapable-of-honesty, would like to be all politically-correct (and completely inaccurate) and continue to pretend it’s a “Zionist Lobby” or an “Israeli Lobby” the sad truth is that it’s clearly a Jewish Lobby

Posted by: Ed Miliband | Oct 27 2012 18:35 utc | 77

@ Don Bacon #57: ” This may be a bogus comment…”
If you doubt that I’m the author of the articles attributed to me at 21st Century Socialism, you are welcome to
email me at the address given on the ‘about us’ section of the website.
BTW, here are a couple of my articles, one on the attack on Libya and the other on Israel’s nuclear weapons:
http://21stcenturysocialism.com/article/death_by_humanitarianism_02056.html
http://21stcenturysocialism.com/article/israel_and_the_west_a_nuclear_romance_01922.html

Posted by: Noah | Oct 27 2012 19:28 utc | 79

Posted by: Ed Miliband | Oct 27, 2012 3:52:41 PM | 80
What is the fuss about? Are Palestinians less tribal than Jewish Israelis? Or is the issue rather how different tribes can get a win win situation and live in peace?

Posted by: somebody | Oct 27 2012 20:02 utc | 81

“The Miliband brothers, who are ethnicly Jewish, are no more and no less pro-Zionist than the UK political leaders who are Christians. “
Well the whole point is that the British Political Establishment is clearly bought and paid for by the UK’s Jewish Lobby.
Your statement above actually proves it.
In the case of the Miliband’s they don’t have to be openly Pro-Zionist – but the evidence shows that they certainly are “Pro-Jewish-Tribe”, often to the detriment the UK which is what they are supposed to be concerned with, being ostensibly “British”.
Evidence shows that they have no concern for the rights of any other “tribe”, regardless of the moral or ethical merits, and at every opportunity they get they seek to promote the interests of their own “tribe”.

Posted by: Ed Miliband | Oct 27 2012 20:08 utc | 83

“There is ‘one race, the human race’ as we used to say.”
Who is “we”?
You, Phil Weiss and the Milibands?

Posted by: Ed Miliband | Oct 27 2012 20:15 utc | 85

“It seems you are a bit confused”>
getting one name incorrect doesn’t make any difference – I still stated that only one UK Jewish Politician stood up and said what needed to be said – and I was right – only ONE did, Whether his name is Janner or Kaufmann doesn’t really matter.
Most of the other non-Jewish politicians were either already bought-off by the UK Jewish Lobby or were too scared of being accused of “Anti-Semitism”, by the Tribe’s attack-dogs in the UK media, of which there are an astoundingly disproportionate number by the way.
But the point still stands – ALL the other UK Jewish Politicians chose to side with “The Tribe”.
But I realise you latched onto that slight mis-statement of mine, because, other than screaming “Anti-Semite”, you haven’t got any arguments to counter anything else I said. So far, other than latching onto on small instance of me incorrectly naming the ONE UK Jewish Politician to properly condemn Israel, you have not managed to refute so much as one thing I have said.
So far most of your replies are just different ways of screaming “anti-Semite” to disguise the fact that you have no other reply. Essentially your whole counter-argument is that merely making patently true statements is simply “Anti-Semitic”.
Stick it up your ass – like Weiss, you’re nothing by an enabler of the Zionists masquerading as someone that gives a fuck about the Palestinians – but it’s clear from your own actions that you’re far more concerned with defending the tribe

Posted by: Ed Miliband | Oct 27 2012 21:21 utc | 87

Kaufmann has in the past said that the Conservative Party is “too close” to Israel. In 2010, Kaufman said that those parts of the British Conservative party not controlled by Lord Ashcroft are controlled by “right-wing Jewish millionaires”.
Is Kaufmann an “anti-Semite” then, for saying that? Because according to your arguments he would have to be.
If you’re not prepared to label Gerald Kaufmann an “Anti-Semite” then how, unless you are racist yourself, could you justify calling an “anti-Semite” anyone that says something similar?
If it’s ok for Kaufmann to say it then why is it not ok for others? The only reason I can think of, would be that you seem to think that it’s ok for a Jewish person to say such a thing, but not for a non-Jewish person to say so.
And THAT would make YOU the racist, not me.

Posted by: Ed Miliband | Oct 27 2012 21:54 utc | 89

I wonder at your innocence.
understatement of the year 😉

Posted by: Star69 | Oct 27 2012 22:18 utc | 91