Syria: Destruction Is Their Aim
Some truth on who is destroying Syrian towns and cities:School buildings lie flattened and the town’s mosque is crushed under the debris of its own demolished twin minarets.It was also the foreign supported insurgents that burned down one of Aleppo's old souks.When the rebel Free Syrian Army routed government troops in mid-July, they dynamited the defensive positions that had been used against them -- from the makeshift barracks in schoolyards to the sniper positions atop the towers once used for the Muslim call to prayer.
“Our strategy has been to completely destroy the buildings we had to force regime forces out to stop them ever coming back,” said an opposition leader, who identified himself only as Najmeddin.
Destruction of the infrastructure, economy and social fabric of Syria is their and their supporters aim.
Posted by b on September 30, 2012 at 14:23 UTC | Permalink
The Syrian rebels are viciously destructive. I agree with Syria's minister for information Al-Zoubi when he said 26 Sep 2012: "We should expect such kind of barbarian acts as we are facing a war.... We are facing brutal aggression."
Telegraph, Aug 11
The people of Aleppo stood by as Homs was pulverised, [Salameh] said. Why should it only be other cities that were caught in the eye of the storm? "Why destroy one part of Syria and not another part of Syria?" he said. "If all of Syria is destroyed, that is only fair."
Tablet, Aug 23
Last week, a Free Syrian Army rebel warned that soon “there will be nothing left to destroy in Aleppo.”
Destruction has been the aim of other military forces also. There are many examples.
The allied bomb destruction of Nürnberg is only one such example. Nürnberg, destroyed by aerial bombs on January 2, 1945, was famous for producing toys and gingerbread cookies, not war materials. It was the ideological center of Nazi Germany and Hitler's favorite city. Nürnberg was regarded as the "most German" of all the cities in Germany, which made it a target for vindictive Allied bombing.
Don Bacon, it is unlikely the aim of an internal opposition. They live there.
This here is the opionion they tried to silence with Maya Naser
Posted by: somebody | Sep 30 2012 16:16 utc | 5
@Don Bacon, would Sherman have considered Atlanta internal or external? Would he have to worry about what people in Atlanta think of him?
ok. if you assume the Syrian conflict is between the countryside and the city and the city is external, most of Syrians are likely to live in the city?
Going for destruction/scorched earth in that context means they are not fighting for power any more, as they would have to be accepted in that role by a substantial part of Syrians, they are fighting for nuisance value. They need Aleppo to split the country, Aleppo for them would have to be internal.
It is like Sherman scorching earth in New York so the South cannot win it.
Posted by: somebody | Sep 30 2012 17:18 utc | 7
@somebody
Military (including quasi-military) forces destroy stuff and kill people. That's what they're trained to do, it's what they're equipped to do, it's what they enjoy doing and it's what they do. They don't really think deeply about it, it comes naturally and easily. The country mouse and city mouse analogy doesn't work here. Think testosterone-induced rage arbitrarily directed.
It's a losing cause to try to make sense of war, to put a brain in it. It's senseless. Destroy and kill, that's it. There are always candidates to do it; so the primary blame goes to the people who support the warriors financially and otherwise, all the while making grandly sanctimonious pronouncements while they are far removed from all the death and destruction.
If there is a strategy in all this it's to turn citizens, and the army, against Assad. Not working so far.
Posted by: dh | Sep 30 2012 17:46 utc | 9
Recently military strategies everywhere haven't had a high success rate, have they. Which goes back to "senseless."
no10 make that US/NATO strategies, other people aren't as stupid :-))
Posted by: somebody | Sep 30 2012 18:10 utc | 11
The whole idea behind the "international community's" Syria bastardry is to wreck it as a functioning state so that Western Corporations can pick the eyes out of the wreckage and let the Syrians go fuck themselves. There's a huge racial supremicism factor in play in these Western enterprises. A majority of Syrians will be infinitely better off in 10 years time if they retain control of their country and economy, than if they let the West's parasites gain control. That, and the ensuing military occupation, would be a guarantee of (Palestinian-style) perpetual serfdom for the majority of Syrians.
Opposing the USA is definitely worth fighting and dying for.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 30 2012 19:23 utc | 12
Homage to Maya Nasser, RIP. You will be missed, but not forgotten.
From a cousin, Antrados , on killing and destruction in Syria.
Posted by: erichwwk | Sep 30 2012 19:43 utc | 13
@10, people's war makes good sense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfyHw5hCl3Q
Posted by: ruralito | Sep 30 2012 20:33 utc | 14
@ somebody #5, #7 : Sherman in Atlanta wasn't a good reference point. Better reference points are many guerrilla warfare cases during the last 100 years where the guerillas targeted the general economy by blowing up physical infrastructure and by destroying the personal security which economic activity requires (aka: by terrorizing).
Example: In Iraq around 2005, 2006, the insurgents blew up electricity generating facilities intentionally to cause the general population to be without electricity.
Example: In the 1970s in Northern Ireland the Irish Catholic Nationalist rebel terrorists wanted to destroy everything, for everybody. They wanted Northern Ireland to fail in every way, for everybody. They hoped it would somehow lead to a collapse of the political establishment, to be followed by a completely different set of political institutions. They had the support of only a minority of the population. They thought the majority could be demoralized into a change of mind by the misery of the fight. (But they were dead wrong about that, and so will be the terrorists in Syria).
Well, Western propaganda has restarted to romanticise death
This film is done by a highly professional guy obviously, and it is highly staged, somehow the well-fed cute dog that never seems to have a stone thrown at and the pampered cat irritate the hell out of me. No farmer would keep pets this way. They are in the film for the Western audience. Never mind the suicide belt.
Posted by: somebody | Sep 30 2012 22:55 utc | 16
@ Parv
In the 1970s in Northern Ireland the Irish Catholic Nationalist rebel terrorists wanted to destroy everything, for everybody. They wanted Northern Ireland to fail in every way, for everybody.
That is completely false. They did attack a few Economic targets in Britain (ie a foreign country that was occupying them), but in Northern Ireland they attacked military and police targets almost exclusively during the 70's. I haven't heard of a single economic attack. I would also mention it was the Unionists loyal to Britain that petrolbombed Irish businesses en masse. Of course all this doesn't even mention that Northern Ireland in the 1970's was already an economically demolished region before any fighting began one of the reasons people turned to Left-wing militancy to begin with.
They had the support of only a minority of the population.
They had the support of most catholics in Ireland. The border is just a line drawn by the British. The whole island of Ireland has 4.7 million Catholics and 1 Million Protestants we are not a minority. Just because the British settled Protestants in the North and then fenced them off from the majority of Irish with the border doesn't make them a majority. Don't forget the borders of Israel and Northern Ireland were both drawn up under the Balfour Declaration. Counting just the Catholics in Northern Ireland is like counting just the Palestinians living inside Israel. We have plenty more Catholics south of the border like Palestine has plenty more Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.
Both were colonial experiments and both will fail due to demographics.
Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Sep 30 2012 23:01 utc | 17
I does look bad for the Syrian government in their attempts to defeat the insurgents in Aleppo. In early August the rebels controlled SW Aleppo and it seemed just a few weeks of fighting and they would be driven out or destroyed. Today they control the center of the city. That does not look like progress.
I cannot claim to be a supporter of the Assad regime but their defeat by Saudi and Western imperialist would be a disaster. Unfortunately, this looks like very bad news for Assad. Even if the rebels ignited the old souks it means they have won. The Vietcong suffered a tactical defeat in the Battle of Hue but the destruction of the citadel ultimately proved to be a strategic gain.
Posted by: ToivoS | Sep 30 2012 23:18 utc | 18
I'll be visiting Dublin for ten days in November, checking the Guinness don't you know. Make sure the foam is reduced properly before I take ownership of the pint. On my first visit I made a mistake and asked for a glass of Guinness and only got a ha' pint. Now I know better. Already have my reservations under O'Bacon. Not really. The Irish have never held any grudges toward me, though they probably should, considering.
"in Northern Ireland the Irish Catholic Nationalist rebel terrorists wanted to destroy everything, for everybody" From now foward I can no longer take anything you say seriously. This is one of the most absurdly reductionist and offensive statements Ive heard in quite a bit. And btw you may call them Irish Republicans.
Posted by: demize! | Sep 30 2012 23:34 utc | 20
@ToivoS
Can you please link to something? Where are you getting your news?
Unfortunately, this looks like very bad news for Assad.
What does?
@ Colm : I was in Belfast myself in about 1980. (I went as a tourist; I was about 20 years old at the time). I remember that the whole downtown area had a high metal fence around it. A person who wanted to shop in the downtown area had to walk through one of the turnstile openings in the metal fence. Soldiers with semi-automatic weapons stood at all the entrances to the area. This was because the nationalist rebels had been planting bombs in the shopping area (mostly car bombs) to try to destroy the commerce of the central city area. The rebels had stopped trying to do it by 1980, and the atmosphere among the people on the streets was not tense when I was there, but the security measures were still in place because no one knew whether the rebels'd start again if the security measures were removed.
Let's agree to disagree about Ireland, Colm, and drop the subject, as this is not the forum. However I'd be interested in anything you might have to say about a question I had about Iraq earlier today in the thread at http://www.moonofalabama.org/2012/09/three-weeks-old-news-a-new-low-for-the-washington-post.html#c6a00d8341c640e53ef017d3c6ab36d970c
@ Don #21: The Battle of Aleppo City started on 21 or 22 July 2012. Today the rebels are still alive and kicking in Aleppo City about as strong as they were on 22 July. You don't need a link for that; you can find the evidence for it everywhere you look. Including http://sana.sy/eng/337/index.htm . The government is trying and failing to put a stop to them. For the government and its supporters this is bad news and unexpected.
@ Parviziyi
With all respect, I know what I need evidence for beyond hearsay, and you don't. The claim is that the terrorists control the center of the city and unfortunately, this looks like very bad news for Assad. That's the claim. That's beyond the government is trying and failing to put a stop to them, isn't it.
Seems more like terrorists are surrounded in the center of the city with no way out.
Posted by: nikon | Oct 1 2012 1:03 utc | 25
The terrorists, a couple hundred, have been running around Aleppo, a city of 2.5 million, for two months now destroying stuff. Big whoop. Now they've set fire to the historic market which pissed off at least a million of the 2.5. Very bad news for Syria? I don't think so. Perhaps the opposite. Show me how this is wrong.
Turkey Istanbul- Protest against Terrorist country Saudi Arabia for the bloodshed in Syria
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSxq6euQwmo&feature=share
Posted by: brian | Oct 1 2012 1:23 utc | 27
I cannot claim to be a supporter of the Assad regime but their defeat by Saudi and Western imperialist would be a disaster. Unfortunately, this looks like very bad news for Assad. Even if the rebels ignited the old souks it means they have won. The Vietcong suffered a tactical defeat in the Battle of Hue but the destruction of the citadel ultimately proved to be a strategic gain.
Posted by: ToivoS | Sep 30, 2012 7:18:54 PM | 18
how strange...so the Vietcong = FSA!
'The Viet Cong (Vietnamese: Việt cộng ( listen)), or National Liberation Front (NLF), was a political organization and army in South Vietnam and Cambodia that fought the United States and South Vietnamese governments during the Vietnam War (1959–1975), and emerged on the winning side.'
NOW Vietcong were all vietnamese nationals..the FSA is mostly NOT syrian!
Posted by: brian | Oct 1 2012 1:26 utc | 28
Brian #28 Please do not be crude. I was not equating the Vietcong with the FSA. The point is that an insurrection, even one supported by imperialist and monarchists, does not have to win battles, it just has to cause damage and survive.
The FSA seems to be doing that quite well.
Posted by: ToivoS | Oct 1 2012 1:58 utc | 29
Posted by: ToivoS | Sep 30, 2012 9:58:24 PM | 29
alright Toiboy..care to explain where ive been 'crude'? or is that an eg of your sloppy standards?
Posted by: brian | Oct 1 2012 4:33 utc | 31
"but in Northern Ireland they attacked military and police targets almost exclusively during the 70's." Not to mention Provisional IRA were riddled by MI5 infiltrators like Freddy Skapaticci aka. "Stakeknife" as well as The Ulster Nationalist paramilitaries being funded and state run. Dirty little wars.
Posted by: demize! | Oct 1 2012 5:25 utc | 32
Bacon asks: "Can you please link to something? Where are you getting your news?"
My news was the information in this thread about the fires in the old souks. Surely you have seen those reports. It means that the insurrection has penetrated into the old center of Aleppo. I have been following this battle using maps since early August and it looks like the government is losing ground. Look at the maps. In early August they were fighting in the SW suburbs of the city (Saladhen? was that named after the great general that expelled the crusaders?), today they are in the center. That is not progress for the government forces.
Posted by: ToivoS | Oct 1 2012 6:05 utc | 33
Brian #31 your crudity is your inability to see parallel examples, instead you made some "crude" equation. It is not logical. I suspect that we are on the same side in this fight, but I am pointing out some obvious problems that our side might be on the losing side. I will never be a cheer leader for the Asad regime, and in this struggle I hope he prevails but I refuse to close my eyes to reality.
Posted by: ToivoS | Oct 1 2012 6:47 utc | 34
The fsa terrorists are operating the "if ya can't take it, destroy it" strategy. Kinda like a scorched earth strategy but a deadly one.
I keep saying, if they had massive support among the masses, they would've won long time ago.The very fact that they're resorted to terrorizing the local populace with bombings and assassinations proves the ineffectiveness of their campaign.
If anything, most of them are not even Syrians and therefore have no qualms destroying Syria's historical sites.
Here's how they operate. They have men that transport weapons into the towns and cities and hide them. The terrorists themselves are later smuggled into the towns/cities to wreak havoc. Everything is coordinated from the Turkish border towns.They specifically target schools and anything that makes life a bit easier for the local community.
The "non-lethal" aid thy receive from Washington and other states are in the form of sophisticated(military grade) communication devices that they use to coordinate their attacks and movements. The weapons/cash are provided by Persian Gulf Arab states, as well as Turkey. Turkey also provides them with training and intelligence coordination.
Anyone claiming these guys are fighting for freedom must have their heads examined.
Syria will do will to hit the command/control structures along the border with Turkey. This will cut the terrorists out for good.
Posted by: Zico | Oct 1 2012 8:23 utc | 35
ToivoS, just because the terrorists burned the ancient bazaar doesn't mean they control the area. In fact, their strategy so far doesn't indicate they intend to control anything.They just want to destroy everything and that's not hard to do.
It wouldn't take a 100 men to burn down that ancient bazaar..Just a couple of jihadis with the right tools can finish the job..They're there to die anyway so they don't mind getting killed in the process.
I will never be a cheer leader for the Asad regime, and in this struggle I hope he prevails but I refuse to close my eyes to reality.
Unfortunately this is how many pro-fsa supporters argue..They often say things like, "we don't support the rebels but we support intervention to stop the bloodshed".In other words, more people have to be killed to make things better.A classic case of liberal interventionist.
There're two side fighting in Syria today: Assad and the rest.
You can't claim to be against Assad and not support the other side..Logic?
Posted by: Zico | Oct 1 2012 8:32 utc | 36
To be supposed have to chose between two sides is never a good thing. It used to be communism or fascism and capitalism or communism. It is stupidity. The world is round not flat, you can go all directions and still end up on the same spot :-)). Actually you could do that even in a flat world. I would avoid anybody who kills people though because that is irreversible.
Posted by: somebody | Oct 1 2012 9:30 utc | 37
somebody @ 37
If you'll be honest with yourself, EVERYONE supports a side. It's just that some people like to hide this fact by claiming something else. Some hide this by claiming they support "no-side".In fact, no true Syrian will claim they support "no-side". It's not just dumb, but stupid. If you don't support a side, people choose your side for you, whether you like it or not.
I support Assad to win and therefore very biased in my comment - that should obvious by now. But given the situation in Syria, I don't think the fsa terrorist will bring any good to the country.So my support for the Syrian government is justified, in my view. ;)
Posted by: Zico | Oct 1 2012 9:51 utc | 38
If anything, most of them are not even Syrians and therefore have no qualms destroying Syria's historical sites.
Syrian Military Intelligence confirms the death of 7,233 criminals and among them 4,243 foreign killers from countries as diverse as France (275), Libya (641), Jordan (18), Yemen (8), Egypt (22), Tunisia, Algeria, Turkey (3), Chechenya (3), Iraq (49), U.K. (44), Pakistan (2) and other countries. The actual number of Syrian citizens is not known now, but it appears clearly that foreign mercenaries are the majority. The battle in Allepo is a "scorched earth" policy as the rats flee. The battle is lost, the 67 UNGA was meant to be the official crowning of the defeat of the Syrian Government, this has failed. Thee empire needs to move to Venezuela to cause havoc, already MSM prints nonsense about Chavez losing, very tight race blah blah.
Posted by: hans | Oct 1 2012 10:30 utc | 39
I would prefer Syrians to win, nobody seems to have a plan for that, it is lose lose.
How do you think "Assad" could possibly win but by a regional peace treaty that relaxes everybody. And how many years would he gain, and do you think he should pass on the presidency to his son? At present this confrontation got a lot of people to fight to the death for - what - a cycle of retaliation?
How would you resolve a conflict by picking one side of two parties locked in a fight or by looking for solutions and first of all separating them - I know that is usually dangerous. So that everybody can find out that there are more than just two sides. And fighting for other peoples interest is foolish if they do not fight for you, too.
This "with me or against me, no third way" is used to threaten. I would not fall for it.
Posted by: somebody | Oct 1 2012 10:48 utc | 40
hans, I would take all official numbers with a lot of salt - and pepper - Syrian government or so called FSA. You cannot dispute though that a considerable number of people are fleeing out of Syria and not just internally (the UN has to account for the money they spend). That would be the officially registered refugees not everybody who left the country. I is a huge step to flee to a refugee camp for a family, you do not do that if you do not feel forced to. The flow of refugees is destabilising Turkey, so no they are not likely to encourage it. So it is very likely an internal Syrian conflict that is used by outside parties for there own ends. And yes the people fighting in Syria now are obviously very professionally trained.
Posted by: somebody | Oct 1 2012 11:19 utc | 41
I would take all official numbers with a lot of salt - and pepper - Syrian government or so called FSA.
I believe these numbers somebody, it is in the Syrian government interest to give true numbers of foreign rebels. The source where I got these numbers is a reliable one.
Posted by: hans | Oct 1 2012 11:28 utc | 42
it is in the Syrian government interest to give true numbers of foreign rebels.
sorry, I assumed the Syrian governement had an interest in inflating the numbers of foreign fighters and Al Queida.
Posted by: somebody | Oct 1 2012 12:02 utc | 43
You know the Syrian government is winning the battle as well as the heart and minds especially when you see article like this
French spies operating in Sirte, Gaddafi’s last refuge, were able to set a trap for the Libyan dictator after obtaining his satellite telephone number from the Syrian government, they said.. The article appeared on the Daily Telegraph. How low can friends of @somebody get!
Posted by: hans | Oct 1 2012 12:32 utc | 44
see, you are doing it white or black, nothing between ....
Why should the daily telegraph be my friend?
Posted by: somebody | Oct 1 2012 12:35 utc | 45
@ somebody # 5 Boy, that link said it all didn't it . . "thank you very much the west . . ."
Posted by: DontNnSUName | Oct 1 2012 13:09 utc | 46
@DontNnSUName
thanks to the world for helping in killing Syrians...thanks to the Arabs and Turkey government for sending terrorists and supporting extremists in my country...thanks to US government for being the Godmother of extremists in my country by sending them weapons, the same extremists who made September 11 [...]
"irony" on Wikipedia:
A figure of speech in which the intended meaning is the opposite of that expressed by the words used; usually taking the form of sarcasm or ridicule in which laudatory expressions are used to imply condemnation or contempt.
Posted by: claudio | Oct 1 2012 13:27 utc | 47
You writing is say, incomplete, if not deceptive. Or, what would Hannah Arendt say "decontextualized". By using TNYT as reference it appears that a) TNYT is worthwhile and truthful source of information and b) TNYT appears to be neutral and innocent observer.
"Destruction of the infrastructure, economy and social fabric of Syria is their and supporters aim."
One might wonder who "their" are? This is key and the most important word. Islamist? No, they are just mercenaries of...NATO, their's extended hand, to put it simply. So-called Islamist or Al Quaida are doing what French army did to Damascus and Syria 1925 and 1946. Or, NATO to Libya this year and US Army to Iraq.
Aside geopolitical consequence of this intercine battle in Syria. The question is: what would follow after mercenaries accomplish its aims of toppling some foreign government with zero debt to IMF like the Syrian one? What would happened when and if Syria joins to "international community"? Syrians will see compradore class of politicians appointed by OECD, IMF, WB, EBRD, aka Western ambassadors will effectively rule from its premises, and myriad so-called consultants with promises of "gold spoons" after implementation of "structural adjustment". However, what follows is typically and plainly: plunder of nation, debt slavery along with permanent insecurity in everyday life.
In fact, TNYT is one who is: "their", it represent "them", and it is "their" mouthpiece. Just like Guardian, BBC, El Pais, FAZ, Spiegel, Le Monde, Liberasion, Le Figaro, WAZ-Mediengruppe. In word, all the Western EU/NATO media outlets who represents (neo)liberal ideology.
Yes, liberal-democracy and its subset of neoliberalism is their. It must be clearly stated and defined: liberal-democracy with all its flavors is fascist and violent ideology. It is the first and foremost source of mayhem and calamities in today's world.
It is explained here: a programme of the methodical destruction of collectives.
http://mondediplo.com/1998/12/08bourdieu
Posted by: neretva'43 | Oct 1 2012 13:40 utc | 48
somebody, peaceful negotiations are impossible until the insurgents know thay can count on the support of foreing powers, and until foreign powers are the ones that decide that the real freedom-lovers are those groups that don't want to talk with Assad
it's obvious that asking the head of an undefeated State to "step down" as a condition for talks is simply provokatory
just as it's obvious that continued support for the insurgency even after the plans for toppling the regime have failed, means that the strategy is now to keep the infection open, instill fear and insecurity in the population, and destroy infrastructure; together with sanctions by UNSC and western powers, the aim is the wear down the regime and bring it as close as possible to "failed state" (or perceived so) status
so I agree that a domestic insurgency exists, and that persistent terrorism is bad news for Assad, but I can only hope Assad prevails anyways, maybe even learning by the experience and searching for more inclusive solutions as a way to strengthen the loyaly of the Syrians
Posted by: claudio | Oct 1 2012 13:42 utc | 49
@ Hans #39. I do think whether insurgents are native or foreign matters. However, I am skeptical of precision in wartime death numbers. Even accepting your numbers as accurate, they only comprise about 25% of the total alleged deaths. Are you suggesting that we "know" the other 75% are "foreign", but of unknown nationality? How dooes one "know" this?
Posted by: erichwwk | Oct 1 2012 13:52 utc | 50
To clarify, Hans' numbers for foreign deaths total 1065, out of an alleged death of "4,243 foreign killers." Why give us just the minority origins? In addition, how does one establish the classification "criminals" at an autopsy? And are these all assumed to be Syrians?
Posted by: erichwwk | Oct 1 2012 13:59 utc | 51
Neretva'43 @48: Thanks for the link, interesting, long-winded explanation about the forces of Corporatism, and their global ambitions to establish the "Global Plantation", where workers are totally subservient to the wishes of their masters. Syria, in my minds eye, is only one more country in the struggle. The West, US/NATO, and their minions, seek to achieve global hegemony through corporate domination. destabilise and control, that's the game.
Posted by: ben | Oct 1 2012 14:43 utc | 52
Claudio, no49, I agree it is obvious the US/Western powers do not work for a peaceful solution, though the support of the rebels is somehow slightly "hands off". It's hard/nearly impossible to solve from within Syria as presumably after 18 months rebels - foreign or local - are running on a war economy there now, i.e. people making a living from fighting, extraction, kidnapping etc. Everybody's strategy seems to be attrition, somehow I cannot see the rebels "winning" that, but obviously the whole country will suffer, so that strategy will deny a "win" to the other side.
Basically the US/West has the choice of all out war with Iran/Syria/Hezbollah, a strategy of tension, or a comprehensive regional peace agreement, which would cost Israel the Golan Heights and would make it one state with a Palestinian near majority.
So obviously they chose the strategy of tension. The snare is that they are relying on the rationality of Hezbollah to not start a war by firing a missile at Israel from the Golan border. From there it is into the unknown ....
Posted by: somebody | Oct 1 2012 15:12 utc | 53
@ Parviziya
Let's agree to disagree about Ireland, Colm, and drop the subject, as this is not the forum. However I'd be interested in anything you might have to say about a question I had about Iraq earlier today
Read your question on Iraq "Who are the Iraqi insurgents today who are fighting the Iraqi government? and specifically what do they hope to achieve?" There has been a surge in AQI violence over the summer. Most of it located in Diyala Province, where it is believed AQI have now made there headquarters after leaving Anbar for unknown reasons.
On July 22, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the top leader of the self- styled Islamic State of Iraq (ISI), al-Qaida front in the country, launched a plan named "Breaking the walls" aimed at releasing Qaida prisoners, targeting the country's judges and investigators, as well as returning to previous al-Qaida strongholds that have been evacuated after rifts with then anti-U.S. Sunni militant groups.
Source: Xinhua
There location around Diyala province gives a clue to there motives. Unlike most of the South of Iraq, Diyala is still heavily mixed Sunni-Shia. Also bordering Iran and far from the traditional Sunni tribes around Anbar who have turned against Al Qaeda. It would be the perfect place to set up an Al Qaeda resurgence. Other than that the timing is probably due to the US troops leaving they judge the Iraqi government too weak without US military backup.
But this "Breaking the Walls" offensive seems to be a serious effort. I had thought that with Syria boiling over that it would cause further peace in Iraq with remaining insurgents moving over the border. But it appears that Jihadist numbers are large enough to sustain both the Syrian offensive and the Iraq increase in violence.
Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Oct 1 2012 16:06 utc | 54
There seems to be, on the part of some, a foregone conclusion that Syria's defeat by these terrorists is imminent. That's been Clinton's pitch for awhile. Others say that Assad, with assistance from Iran and Russia, will prevail. Nobody knows. Nobody can predict the future. The government seems strong and the terrorists are divided.
Suffice to say that these conflicts can go on for awhile. The US declared victory in Baghdad in April 2003; in October 2006, three and a half years later, defeat was declared. Then came the surge -- and victory! of a sort.
One main indicator for me, and b has posted on it, is Turkey. Without Turkey the Western strategy falls apart. Turkey is torn internally and is not dependable, with the PKK easily supported by Iran to stir up eastern Anatolia which it is doing.
Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi is in Turkey, making his position clear:
In his address to the convention, Morsi said the AKP’s achievements in Turkey “are followed with respect by the entire world. I cannot hide my admiration over these achievements and convey you the admiration of all Egyptian people,” said Morsi. “Egypt wants to live in peace in regards to its foreign policy, primarily with Turkish people and their government. I want to express now that we’ll continue this path of no intervention in anyone’s internal affairs, and by not letting anyone interfere in our internal affairs.”
This report from Zaman is hopeful (for Syria).
Turkey and Qatar, two of the staunchest opponents of the Bashar al-Assad regime, have reportedly cut arms supplies to Syria's lightly armed opposition forces, bent on toppling the regime in Damascus, until the divided opposition factions unite.UK daily The Independent claimed that Turkish and Qatari officials contacted representatives of the opposition forces and told them to form a united command structure in order to lead a more robust and effective military campaign against Damascus in the 18-month-old uprising.
The Turkish and Qatari officials made it clear that heavy weapons, including anti-aircraft and anti-tank missiles, which opposition fighters are desperately in need of, will not be made available until the formation of a united command structure among various factions.
Regarding opposition leadership, the SNC has been cut out and the NCC has been formed, but the FSA has refused to join. The US State Department has been relying on Ambassador Ford, working in Cairo, to come up with a new Syria government but there's no Ford in Syria's future.
Cole is featuring the "Assad betrayed Khadafi" story today, and chiding the left.
"b" should definitely comment imo.
Posted by: amspirnational | Oct 1 2012 19:42 utc | 58
Actually it's a -- Did Bashar al-Assad Betray Qaddafi? -- story.
Professor Cole: "If it is true, the story reflects badly on both Bashar and Sarkozy."
How does that chide the left?
Brian #31 your crudity is your inability to see parallel examples, instead you made some "crude" equation. It is not logical. I suspect that we are on the same side in this fight, but I am pointing out some obvious problems that our side might be on the losing side. I will never be a cheer leader for the Asad regime, and in this struggle I hope he prevails but I refuse to close my eyes to reality.
Posted by: ToivoS | Oct 1, 2012 2:47:57 AM | 34
please dont speak to me in that fashion or i will complain to B...words like 'crude' convey an unpleasant meaning to native english speakers
Posted by: brian | Oct 1 2012 21:43 utc | 61
Brian #31 your crudity is your inability to see parallel examples, instead you made some "crude" equation. It is not logical. I suspect that we are on the same side in this fight, but I am pointing out some obvious problems that our side might be on the losing side. I will never be a cheer leader for the Asad regime, and in this struggle I hope he prevails but I refuse to close my eyes to reality.
Posted by: ToivoS | Oct 1, 2012 2:47:57 AM | 34
No we are not on the same side of the fight, most syrians support president Assad, and so do i...now your behavior is 'crude' not to mention dodgy. So lets be really crude and see you as a supporter of the terrorists FSA
Posted by: brian | Oct 1 2012 21:50 utc | 62
The US State Department has been relying on Ambassador Ford, working in Cairo, to come up with a new Syria government but there's no Ford in Syria's future.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 1, 2012 2:03:12 PM | 57
If Morsi is concerned about egypt not interfering in other states affairs why is egypt harboring a rogue like Ford?
Posted by: brian | Oct 1 2012 21:53 utc | 63
sorry, I assumed the Syrian governement had an interest in inflating the numbers of foreign fighters and Al Queida.
Posted by: somebody | Oct 1, 2012 8:02:21 AM | 43
not at all...please dont make rash assumptions, especially when you cant support it, and the evidence is of mostly foreign jihadis...as it makes you seem like an agent of FUKUSsaudisrael
Posted by: brian | Oct 1 2012 21:56 utc | 64
. The flow of refugees is destabilising Turkey, so no they are not likely to encourage it. So it is very likely an internal Syrian conflict that is used by outside parties for there own ends. And yes the people fighting in Syria now are obviously very professionally trained.
Posted by: somebody | Oct 1, 2012 7:19:47 AM | 41
refugees are not 'destabilising' Turkey ...Erdogan and the jihadis who use Tuerkey as a base are destabilising Turkey. Internal syrian conflict? no, its an external conflict aka aggressive invasion using foreign jihadis
Posted by: brian | Oct 1 2012 22:00 utc | 65
Don Bacon
Cole chides the Left in the post for sympathies with Baathism, no?
I don't agree with him of course, and some of his commentors corrected him and his
possible motives.
"The polemicists of the fringe left and the far right who depict the Baathist regime in Syria as a beleagured victim of Western plotting may have to retool their noise machines. It turns out that the authoritarian government of Bashar joined with France to destroy Libya’s Muammar Qaddafi.
He deleted my comment about the history of Greater Syria which included Lebanon and of the fact that
between 1975-1977 substantial numbers of Palestinians maintained a pro-Syrian orientation throughout the occupation and shifting alliances.
Posted by: amspirnational | Oct 1 2012 22:23 utc | 66
"The polemicists of the fringe left and the far right" ... I quit reading JC years ago, but I didn't remember him so a**hole
Posted by: claudio | Oct 1 2012 22:34 utc | 67
@ Colm O'Toole #54: Thanks for the reply. I hadn't noticed that most of the Iraqi violence has been located in Diyala Province. I'm not going to doubt you, but note Sunday's violence was located in a variety of places, mostly NOT in Diyala Province; http://www.naharnet.com/stories/en/55415-iraq-says-september-deadliest-month-in-over-two-years , and http://www.naharnet.com/stories/en/55339-wave-of-iraq-attacks-kills-at-least-33
Looks like violence in Diyala is driven at least in part by sectarian territoriality in the province:
In December 2011, the governing council in Diyala province declared itself a semi-autonomous region within Iraq.[10] This comes two months after Salahuddin Governorate made a similar declaration. The council in Diyala, using Article 119 of the Iraqi Constitution as justification, made the declaration because of suspicion of the Shi'a-dominated government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. Unlike the overwhelmingly Sunni Salahuddin province however, Diyala province is more ethnically and religiously mixed, and such an announcement led to the outbreak of protests in the province.[11]
@ Don Bacon #24, #26, #30, #55 : I agree with you all four times. Including on the point that the government's political support is not slipping. I was trying to make a different point and I'll try again. I've been following Syria since the start of Events, getting my info primarily from pro-government sources, and all along, as the security situation deteriorated, the government and its supporters did not expect it would deteriorate more. When they saw it get worse, they didn't see reason to believe it was going to get even worser. They still haven't turned the corner on the situation, and they don't understand why not (nor do I, given all the advantages they have). The failure to restore order in Aleppo city doesn't imply the government can be defeated. Rather, it implies the country is going to be beset with serious violence for longer into the future. This is new news. More exactly, it is new news for the government and its supporters (one can find anti-government people who were expecting it all along). I posted a long comment on the same theme a month ago at http://www.moonofalabama.org/2012/08/they-make-plans-.html#c6a00d8341c640e53ef017d3bcb065c970c .
The Syrian government information outlets have a positive interest in hyping or upgrading the news profile of the foreign fighters and the Al Qaeda affiliates among the rebels. But they don't have an interest in inflating the numbers of foreign fighters and Al Qaedas. Instead, they have an interest in telling the truth and being trustworthy. As I've said many times before on this board I find the Syrian government information outlets are trustworthy, though I can't agree with their spin always. As I see the reality, the conflict is truly indigenous and the role of the foreigners is over-promoted by the government, yet I cannot find any basis for agreeing with somebody who's saying the government is lyingly exaggerating the facts about the foreign element. (That was a response to #43).
'As I see the reality, the conflict is truly indigenous and the role of the foreigners is over-promoted by the government, '
how unreal!...youd need to show most of the FSA were syrian...so far evidence shows this is not so. There never was a 'indigeous conflict'...aka CIVIL WAR..thats what the western and arab dictatorship media want the world to believe, to justify 'humanitarian intervention'
DONT BE FOOLED
Posted by: brian | Oct 2 2012 4:25 utc | 71
When they saw it get worse, they didn't see reason to believe it was going to worsen. They still haven't turned the corner on the situation, and they don't understand why not (nor do I, given all the advantages they have). The failure to restore order in Aleppo city doesn't imply the government can be defeated. Rather, it implies the country is going to be beset with serious violence for longer into the future.
The new battles being fought is because of the eviction of the terrorists from Turkey. Some 9000 odd all concentrating in the old quaters of Allepo.
Posted by: hans | Oct 2 2012 5:43 utc | 72
*There was a time when the antiwar movement referred to the “Bush regime,” but that usage has gone missing with the ascension of Obama, the candidate of the “progressive” Democrats.*
http://dissidentvoice.org/2012/10/national-pentagon-radio-npr-watch/
now i understand why folks cant bring themselves to calling a spade a spade, coz, obama hail from the *progressive dems* hehehe
hence
the bush regime
the obama *administration*, *government*
i see it now ;-)
Posted by: denk | Oct 2 2012 6:52 utc | 73
Turkish foreign ministry gives a well deserved smack down to saudi dictators private media Al-Arabiya:
-------------------------------------------------
Turkish Foreign Ministry source denies al-Arabiya reports on the two plane's pilots
A prominent source at the Turkish Foreign Ministry denied al-Arabiya TV allegations that the Two Turkish pilots whose warplane was downed by the Syrian air defense were killed at the hands of Syrian intelligence.
The source, which spoke on a condition of anonymity, described to the Turkish Hurriyet Newspaper the report as ultimately nonsense.
A Turkish military expert, for his part, said that al-Arabiya TV report is not trustworthy.
Posted by: brian | Oct 2 2012 8:37 utc | 74
no 70, I agree Parvizini, Syrian media is very professional, however as with all media having an agenda (most of them do) there are a lot of facts they do not mention, though the facts they mention presumably are mostly true. I said "salt and pepper" not lie. I would treat the numbers of any shareholder information or any balance spreadsheet the same way.
I assume, without following Syrian media that much, that they would not discuss internal conflicts in any way that could hurt the image of the government. The stuff I have read was devoid of any analysis of internal conflict apart from blaming foreign intervention.
The images of cities split in "secure" zones living normally and utter destruction next door with well defined borders guarded by snipers need explanation, this explanation is lacking. I support part of the latest "rebel" strategy was to bring destruction to the "secure" zones, too. I am amazed they try this strategy again and again as when attacked human beings close ranks they do not turn against their leadership.
I assume Assad's side will win as he has not played all feasible political, diplomatic and military chips yet, whilst the "rebels" and their foreign backers have.
Posted by: somebody | Oct 2 2012 9:27 utc | 75
How do you like it? 95% of the 14,800 'rebels' in #Syria are not Syrians! by the BND (German Intelligence).. http://t.co/78UgyOtG
@3arabiSouri Yesterday 26 retweets | 3 replies
Deutscher Geheimdienst: 95 % der Rebellen in Syrien sind Ausländer
Berlin (IRIB) - Der BND gab zu, dass nur 5 % der bewaffneten Terroristen in Syrien wirklich Syrer sind, 95 % von ihnen kommen aus dem Ausland. Laut de …
Posted by: brian | Oct 2 2012 12:01 utc | 76
Hi, Brian, I saw that, too, and as it is the BND that is mentioned and Die Welt I searched for it in German and did not find it.
Your link does not work any more but you can still find the IRIB news on the web
So either Iranian German radio retracted it or got hacked.
Die Welt definitively did not report it and the BND did not say it in a way that could be accessed by the internet.
Posted by: somebody | Oct 2 2012 12:49 utc | 77
The stuff I have read was devoid of any analysis of internal conflict apart from blaming foreign intervention.
Devoid of what please, the bottom line is what started of as a control of the desert's religion is now coming to it's final conclusion. I have always stated that the victory or shall we say the end of the Thirteenth Tribe will soon be on on. Ask yourselves why are the Zionist and the Thirteenth tribe so keen to destroy Iran. The answer my friends lies in Science.
Posted by: hans | Oct 2 2012 13:08 utc | 78
it seems unlikely a prevalently foreign insurgency could bring this level of sustained destruction to Syria; it must have islands of local consensus and collaboration; I came to this conclusion analyzing events and reports from Aleppo
on the other hand, without foreign support it's likely that domestic revolts would have wittled away in a few months at most, so it is correct for Assad to blame foreigners for the current strife
I can imagine foreign intervention can leverage generic discontent, dissent of various stripes, and religious radicalism
to say that the insurgency also has a local constituency, btw, doesn't delegitimize Assad; any country with radical minorities and old rivalries and a large, unemployed youth population could witness such revolts if foreign powers would sustain it, predict its imminent victory, send trained troops, weapons, supplies, money, etc
Posted by: claudio | Oct 2 2012 14:21 utc | 79
Authors and Producers Behind the Blueprint for the Syrian Drama
Aug 17, 2012 | Olga Chetverikova
It became clear recently that the West's former blueprint for Syria – a conversion of Aleppo into the country's Benghazi, a foothold for a sweeping offensive against the government forces - was irreversibly defeated. Having done the due editing on their tactic, the Syrian opposition's curators remote-controlling the process from Paris, Tel Aviv, London, and Washington switched to a combination of 1) constant pressure meant to push Syria deeper into chaos by terrorists attacks, subversion, information campaigns, and externally fueled sectarian strife plus 2) serious steps towards an undisguised intervention to be launched by NATO and a group of its Arab vassals. The point at the moment is that Syria's slide into a nightmare with no end in sight, perhaps culminating in a shocking episode like the seizure of the Syrian chemical warfare stockpiles by puppet international terrorists to add the final touch to the picture, should eventually provide a credible justification for an international military crackdown on Assad's regime.
British Foreign Secretary William Hague pressed the message on August 5 in response to the Syrian militants' taking hostage 48 Iranians, including women and children, that the country is sinking into a sectarian conflict and that the motivations driving the opposition groups across the spectrum mainly stem from their religious and ethnic rivalries. «It might only be a further collapse of the authority of the regime, bloodshed on an even greater scale...», said Hague. In the language of the Western politics, airing alarmist forecasts is a traditional form of going public with the actual plan. «In the absence of a peaceful solution we will step up our support for the opposition, continue to deliver humanitarian aid and continue to intensify our work to isolate the Assad regime, its finances and its members, to make life as difficult as possible for it to operate», pledged the British diplomacy chief (1).
Vivid illustrations of the current anti-Assad technologies pop up in the Western media. On August 5, The Sunday Times featured British photojournalist John Cantley's account of his captivity in the hands of the Syrian militants: in his words, those were a bunch of international Jihadists which counted in its ranks people from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Great Britain, and Russia's Chechnya, and, oddly enough, no Syrians (2). It did not evade Cantley that 12 of the 30 in the crew were fluent in English, 9 of them – speaking with a distinct London accent. Great Britain' Foreign Office shyly explained in the connection that the security situation in Syria calls for energetic international action.
Roughly at the same time, The Daily Mail published a paper reporting that Great Britain was supplying advanced satellite phones to Syrian militants. The handsets are normally used by the British special forces, and, according to the paper, «the provision of training and equipment to the opposition means that British Special Forces are likely to be operating in Syria». Appropriately widening the political perspective, The Daily Mail said that «The supply of the latest generation of handsets is part of the Foreign Office’s mission to mould militias into a coalition capable of governing the country» (3).
The US media similarly spill curious information on how aid is being fed to the insurgents in Syria. Up to date, arms supplies to the Syrian opposition were not officially authorized in the US, but those being dished out by the US allies – Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar – used to be an open secret. Seth Jones, a senior political scientist at the Rand Corp. and former senior adviser at U.S. Special Operations Command, wrote in a recent Wall Street Journal issue that «Al Qaeda in Syria (often operating as the "Al Nusra Front for the People of the Levant") is using traffickers - some ideologically aligned, some motivated by money—to secure routes through Turkey and Iraq for foreign fighters, most of whom are from the Middle East and North Africa... Al Qaeda in Iraq, led by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, has apparently sent small arms and light weapons - including rifles, light machine guns, and rocket propelled grenades—to its Syrian contingent. It has also sent explosives experts to augment the Syrian contingent's bomb-making capabilities, plus fighters to boost its ranks» (4).
The «death triangle» comprising Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar plays games in Syria in tight coordination with the CIA. The key roles in the concert are given to Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber bin Muhammad Al Thani, the premier and foreign minister of Qatar in one, and to House of Saud member Bandar bin Sultan, secretary general of the Saudi Arabia's national security council and intelligence agency chief. In fact, Prince Bandar, an ambassador to the US in 1983-2005 who is accordingly well-connected in Washington, is both a central figure in the Saudi establishment and a man with a reputation of a top foreign influencer in the US. He is known to have poured money into the Nicaraguan contras, the mercenary groups in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Libya, and Chechnya, and his current support for the Syrian terrorists comes as a logical extension of the record. Suspicion runs high that Bandar was instrumental in organizing the terrorist attack which took the lives of four senior Syrian officials in Damascus (5) last month.
While Saudi Arabia and Qatar at least nominally tend to stay in the shadow, Turkey picked the dirtiest part of the job vis-a-vis Syria, rendering outright assistance in the anti-Assad campaign, hosting the Syrian militants' camps, and maintaining their command center in Adana, at a distance of around 100 km from the Syrian border. The Turkish gift list to the Free Syrian Army is not limited to firearms but, according to NBC News, even featured a collection of 20 man-portable air-defense systems. An instruction penned by the US President seems to have placed the Adana center, conveniently located in the proximity of the Incirlik Air Base, under CIA oversight (6). The financial infusions into the Syrian opposition over the whole crisis period have estimatedly passed the $100m mark, though the fraction of the amount bankrolled in the daylight measures a modest $25m (7).
Starting this August, the CIA and other US agencies have the President's authorization to engage with the Free Syrian Army with the aim of ejecting Assad, meaning that the transactions are fully legitimized. In late July, the US Administration set up the Syrian Support Group (SSG) to which the US Department of Treasury promptly issued a license to nourish the Syrian opposition, to prop it up with information and logistics, and to offer it a range of further, otherwise illicit, services. The proportions of the financial package coupled to the plan are hitherto undisclosed, but the SSG already named nine Free Syrian Army committees to receive money for acquisitions and personnel pay.
Head of the non-profit Center for Justice and Accountability (CJA) Mohammad Abdallah, a former Syrian opposition spokesman, praised the above measures as a way of upping the pressure on Assad, and Brian Sayers, a retired NATO officer who contributed appreciable lobbying to the SSG creation, explained that the arrangements would help boost the efficiency of arms supplies to Syria in comparison to what had been achieved by Qatar and Saudi Arabia. He admitted that accounting for the end destination of every cent of the money thrown in would be problematic but expressed a hope that the Free Syrian Army would not forward any of the funding to marginal groups.
It is obvious at the time that the armed Syrian opposition disintegrates into an ever growing number of semi-autonomous formations, while its Wahhabi factions open about their Jihadism are gaining weight. The Free Syrian Army, largely run by defectors from the government forces, is already locked in a bitter dispute with the Syrian National Council, an assembly of Syrian dissenters long absent from their home country. The Army aligned itself with the SSG as a political front and appears to be ripping the financial benefits of the leap of faith. The dynamics, on the other hand, left the campaign's Arab sponsors divided as the SSG is backed by Saudi Arabia and the Syrian National Council lives on donations from Qatar. In the meantime, Syria's branch of the pervasive Muslim Brotherhood distances itself from both and is about to unleash its own armed groups in the country.
The multiplication of the brands of militants in Syria serves to reinforce the impression that the country is overwhelmed and, therefore, makes it easier for the West to sell what is happening as a full-blown civil war. The time is coming to call a spade a spade and to unmask those who inspire the Syrian bloodshed as the nation is trying to survive the clash with the global evil.
Posted by: brian | Oct 2 2012 14:37 utc | 80
its here too
Der BND gab zu, dass nur 5 % der bewaffneten Terroristen in Syrien wirklich Syrer sind, 95 % von ihnen kommen aus dem Ausland.
Laut der Zeitung „Die Welt“ hat der BND in einem offiziellen und genauen Bericht die Nationalitäten der Rebellen in Syrien und ihre Standorte in dem Land veröffentlicht. Die Mehrheit der Rebellen kommt aus afrikanischen Ländern. Es handelt sich wahrscheinlich um Mitglieder von Al Kaida.
Laut diesem Bericht wird die Zahl der Rebellen in Syrien auf 14.800 geschätzt.
http://www.antizensur.de/deutscher-geheimdienst-95-der-rebellen-in-syrien-sind-auslander/
Posted by: brian | Oct 2 2012 14:39 utc | 81
Ok, I guess it is over
this from Turkey
"Report: Iraq calls for end of Turkish forces' presence in northern Iraq"
seems they had a treaty with Saddam Hussein for bases to pursue the PKK there ...
Mearsheimer as quoted by Hürriyet
"US has stepped back over Syria, academic says"
and Syrian army finally acquiring youtube competence ;-))
Syrian army soldiers making on FSA sat Lebanese border post
which is charmingly non military ...
Posted by: somebody | Oct 2 2012 16:02 utc | 83
Syrian President Bashar al-Assad is visiting the city of Aleppo to take a first-hand look at the fighting between government forces and the opposition and has ordered 30,000 more troops into the battle, a Lebanese paper said on Tuesday.
Great video, somebody. The Syrian's keep that up, while the 'FSA' continue their torture/murder vidmix & obvious propaganda, what little support they have left locally is going to leach away fast.
Another interesting video:
Lebanese Druze leader: I will arm the Druze if attacked... a secular Syria or no Syria at all http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVopuk0H7V0&feature=related
Lebanese Druze leader Wiam Wahhab, in an interview on Al Manar TV, states that if the Druze in Syria came under attack, he will arm them and fight with them. He also states that there won't be a Syria if it stopped being secular (if an extremist of fundamentalist regime took over).
---
Another interesting little piece of interesting news...
If anyone has been following the rather odd story of a bunch of Russian seperatists/terrorists killed by Georgian special forces near the Russian border recently a lot of things didn't make sense about the story - all the seperatists/terrorists were killed without getting a shot off, the ground was obviously staged, etc.
The most persuasive version was put forward by Khizri Aldamov, 'who was an emissary of Chechen militants in Georgia for 18 years' before accepting an Russian amnesty offer:
http://weeklyintercept.blogspot.com.au/2012/09/chechen-ex-militant-georgia-trained.html
However, recruiting a bunch of hardcore militants just to shoot them in a staged events still didn't make enough sense, & obviously there had been a falling out with their handlers somewhere...
Gulbaat Rtskhiladze, head of the Institute of Eurasia seemed to connect some of the dots:
Rtskhiladze admitted that he did not know which traces the Georgian authorities were trying to cover up: "I do not know this exactly. There were indications in the Georgian press that the authorities supposedly wanted to send these people to Syria, but then something changed, these people did not want to go there, and they were deceived, that is, fraudulently recruited, and when they saw it, they wanted to return home and were killed".http://vestnikkavkaza.net/articles/politics/32028.htmlNana Devdariani, political analyst, the former head of the Central Election Commission of Georgia, confirmed that "a number of actions in Georgia is someone else’s mission and not the national interest. What was there in fact behind this operation?
It makes a lot of sense that Georgia & new or want to be NATO members are involved with recruiting & training these militants, and not at all surprising that much of it is blowing up in their faces.
Another related little item that I posted at Penny's was about Bulgaria & Isreal having a spat, with Bulgarian support of the FSA, plus the Isreali tourist bombing the background:
Israeli minister's chief of staff causes diplomatic incident with Bulgaria
http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/diplomania/israeli-minister-s-chief-of-staff-causes-diplomatic-incident-with-bulgaria-1.459782
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/NI29Ak03.html
Very likely a 'FSA' linked group carried out the attack in my opinion, as it looks like Bulgaria was one of the training grounds, & Bulgarian 'mercenaries' are very likely one of the sources for trainers...
---
Also possibly connected is the recent release of Azeri murderer Ramil Safarov, an Azeri Lieutenant who hacked to death a sleeping Armenian Lieutenant at a joint 'Partnership for Peace' NATO-sponsored program in Hungary.
He was supposedly released by Hungary to serve his sentence at home in Azerbaijan, but was promptly pardoned & given a medal with great celebration ensuring...
Just in time for NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen to pay a visit, make appropiate noises about how shocked he was, but how happy he was about the continued strengthening of NATO-Azeri ties...
An obvious pay-off, but a pay-off for what?
Most were linking Azeri airbases for use in a possible attack on Iran, but that is a step too far for the wily Aliyev, who while being seen as in the Western camp due his heavy involvement with Western Oil majors, likes to play off the West against Russia while maintaining his position, & does pretty good business with Iran.
Support & staging areas for the 'FSA' is much more likely deal being done...
http://news.am/eng/news/120035.html
http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/121990/
http://beforeitsnews.com/christian-news/2012/09/armenian-americans-demand-azeri-axe-murderers-re-incarceration-2449364.html
Posted by: KenM | Oct 2 2012 20:41 utc | 86
confirmation that the BDS did say 95% of insurgents are nonsyrian :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbmczLdvZVY
Posted by: brian | Oct 3 2012 7:46 utc | 87
no brian, that is neither "Die Welt" nor a BND spokesman - BDS is the Bund Deutscher Sportsschützen by the way- they did not say that neither
It is fabricated news people are quoting without the original source ...
Posted by: somebody | Oct 3 2012 8:04 utc | 88
SYRIA: Aleppo citizens oppose the FSA Terrorists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj4RK6ugPoc&feature=share
Posted by: brian | Oct 3 2012 14:33 utc | 89
yes BND...BUT its had some support with that academic endorsing it....and yse most syrians dont support the insurgency..they dont want to see their country at war
Posted by: brian | Oct 3 2012 14:34 utc | 90
Hello all you sane people out in here! Id be very thankful for anyone having a short YT(or else) clip roughly 10 mins that cuts the principal mediawar against syria short, and makes it understandable to those, who are not necessarily newstruthjunkies like I (might i say we?) am. I intend to put that vid on FB. So; if u have some good short vids explaining the basic situation in Syria, her damit!
Posted by: Kalimbour | Oct 3 2012 14:35 utc | 91
On tonight’s episode of “Glenn Beck”, Glenn laid out a new theory regarding the attacks on American Ambassador Chris Stevens in Libya. On the show, Glenn stated that he believes, based on his research and analysis, Stevens was not killed as a result of spontaneous riot spurned by the video spreading around YouTube parodying Muhammad. Instead, Glenn believes he was killed in a targeted attack and that the protests were just used as a distraction.
.........
Before the attack, one of the guards who died alongside Stevens, Sean Smith, posted the following on an online gaming message board: “assuming we don’t die tonight. We saw one of our ‘police’ that guard the compound taking pictures”.
Glenn wondered if all the elements of the timeline above and the message from Smith really match up with the story circulating Washington D.C. and the media – that the attacks were the result of a spontaneous protest spurned on by the YouTube video. He had a different theory.
After a break, Glenn tried to tell the story of what happened in Libya from a different perspective.
He started by putting several questions up on the chalkboard:
Glenn theorized that the two people who were working the two former SEALs working protective duty for the ambassador were actually CIA agents on an intelligence mission to round up dangerous weapons in the war town nation. Before his death, Glen Doherty, one of the former SEALs who was killed alongside Stevens, told ABC News about that he was looking for weapons in Libya. Also, Glenn said that, although it was not explicitly stated, it could be inferred from the interview that they were rounding up weapons supplied by the United States to Libyan rebels during the uprising last year.
Glenn also pointed out that the media’s portrayal of Stevens seems odd as more information about him emerges. He is said to have a huge love for the Libyan people, which is odd considering several leaders of the Libyan revolt against Gadaffi have stated they fought against the United States, and the rebel leader claimed that many Al-Qaida members were working with him on the front lines.
Reports have also surfaced over the past week that Stevens snuck into the war torn country on a cargo ship, and that he travelled to Morocco, Germany and Sweden. Glenn also found it suspicious that he did not travel in the more protected, but more obvious, armored vehicles.
“That doesn’t like your average pencil pusher diplomat. Sounds a little more like CIA to me,” Glenn theorized.
Glenn theorized that Stevens was in fact the CIA operative who was the CIA weapons dealer in the region, and he believed that Stevens was the one who brokered the deal to give Libyan rebels weapons to fight against Gadaffi.
So what does Glenn think really happened?
- The U.S. government is indeed looking for missiles to recover, so that no one finds out that we supplied them to terrorists
- They find a weapons cache of surface to air missles
- Same missiles we supplied during the revolution to take out aircraft.
- The CIA agents were forced to call in Stevens, our CIA weapons dealer.
- He flies in on short notice and takes an unmarked car to avoid suspicion to meet them
- The meeting goes south, he is taken to the closest safe house, which is why he ends up at the poorly secured consulate building.
- The message Sean Smith sent to the gaming community was really a message to the CIA telling them they needed help.
Glenn asked which scenario was more plausible: 1) The attacks were a result of a protest spurned by a YouTube video or 2) The bad guys in Benghazi staged the protests to cover for the attack.
“I don’t know if this is the case,” Glenn said. “But I do know it’s more likely than spontaneous rag-tag protesters pulling off a high level power assault.”
Glenn said that the media must press the Obama administration on the mission to recover weapons in Libya, and expose the possible scandal that the administration supplied the very weapons that killed the ambassador.
Link to : http://glennbeck.com
posted without commenting on the similarities between mr beck's thesis and the theses of various somebody(s) at MOA
Posted by: SufferingFools | Oct 4 2012 11:16 utc | 92
The comments to this entry are closed.
Iraqification by stealth?
No matter. My money is still on the Syrians who don't want their country run by USrael-Brit-French stooges.
They've done it in the past and can hopefully do it again.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 30 2012 14:37 utc | 1