Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 8, 2012
Could The War On Syria Create Regime Change in Ankara?

The fight over Aleppo is waging on with advantages on the Syrian government side. The Syrian army launched its ground offense in Aleppo and killed the leader of the insurgency there. The insurgents are in tactical retreat from their Aleppo stronghold of Salaheddin. It will take some time to mop them up.

When politics failed to give Washington what it wanted it decided to increase the violence in Syria by promoting Al Qaeda to fill the void the Annan mission left:

The US’s estimation is that the agenda of ‘regime change’ in Syria is getting stuck in mud. The Syrian regime is intact.

Therefore, what is needed is a military push. The name of the game is to achieve a ’soft landing’ in Damascus without spilling American blood – as WaPo says. Now that the US and its allies have got rid of the nuisance of Kofi Annan, the path ahead is clear.

The only way forward for both sides of the proxy war in Syria is the military option:

Until either Assad or his armed opponents achieve a major military victory that translates into immediate political gains, thus forcing the external players to negotiate, there will be no alternative to continued military operations and further fighting.

The armed opposition – with all its diverse factions comprising Syrian, Arab and foreign fighters and Salafi and other ideologies – has become better organized and equipped to wage a long war. It is receiving larger amounts and more sophisticated military equipment by the day. The regime, too, has adjusted for a protracted battle, in which no holds are barred, and in which it feels justified in unleashing all the firepower at its disposal.

Both sides are equally convinced that to achieve a big military triumph, such as controlling Aleppo, maximum force must be used, in order to push the crisis toward a resolution – though not necessarily to a political settlement anytime soon.

The U.S. and its allies are sending more weapons and radicals into Syria. But the public mood in the west about this conflict is changing. Even the German public TV, which is full of anti-Assad propaganda, is now warning about the Salafi insurgents. There is also some trouble between the Syrian fanatics and their foreign jihadi guests:

"Let me be clear. I am an Islamist, my fighters are Islamists. But there is more than one type of Islamist," he told Reuters. "These men coming fought in insurgencies like Iraq. They are too extreme, they want to blow up any symbol of the state, even schools."

One of the most effective and elusive groups in Aleppo now sending reinforcements into Damascus is called Ahrar al-Sham, "The Free Men of Syria." Its fighters accept the bulk of jihadist foreign fighters in Idlib and Aleppo, rebels say.

"They're extremely effective and secretive. They coordinate with us to attack the regime but they don't take orders from anyone. They get weapons and explosives smuggled from abroad that are much better," said a rebel in Aleppo called Anwar.

In view of these radical insurgents' atrocities many Syrians critical of their government are increasing the  support for their government:

The video released last week in Aleppo that appeared to show FSA fighters executing more than a dozen accused regime thugs, called shabiha, and Aawayini, meaning collaborators, at a school will not help to win the trust of those Syrians skeptical of the insurgents' motives. It may also help push some opposition supporters away who are disgusted by the FSA’s real or rumored use of violence.

“They talk about wanting democracy, but I am now too scared to even voice my opinion in public for fear I’ll be called a collaborator and be killed,” a 60-year old retired schoolteacher, named Obeyda, told me over a coffee in her living room in Muhajirin in late July. She used to be very critical of the regime but now she’s more critical of the FSA.

For those who followed the conflict the existence of radical foreign fighters in Syria is of course nothing new. New is only the publicity that these people are getting. The Hindu compares the situation in Syria to the war in Kashmir where foreign supported radical were also the ones who started the violent insurgency:

Young people in particular chafed under the Ba’ath party’s rule in Syria exactly as they chafed against “Delhi’s rule” in Kashmir. But while nearly everyone wanted a change, almost no one wanted it at the cost of a violent disruption of their lives. In neither case, therefore, was the state the first to resort to violence: On the contrary, both insurgencies had to be stoked, so the first to pick up the gun were the insurgents. In Syria this was done by Salafi/Takfiri Islamists who crossed the border from Jordan in March 2011 and holed up in the Omari mosque in Dera’a before launching targeted provocations, and attacks on police stations and government offices.

With the Turkish, Saudi and Qatari involvement now very visible and the kidnapping and killing Iranian pilgrims some of whom are retired revolutionary guards Iran officially declared itself to be part of the fight:

"What is happening in Syria is not an internal Syrian issue but a conflict between the axis of the resistance and its enemies in the region and the world," Mr. Jalili said in comments reported on Syrian state television. He added: "Iran will not tolerate, in any form, the breaking of the axis of the resistance, of which Syria is an intrinsic part."

"Iran is saying: 'We are involved. We are inside the battle,' " said Talal Atrissi, a Lebanese political analyst and an expert on Iran. He added, "It means this is now a more international war."

It will soon be payback time for Turkey and those Gulf countries that support the insurgency.

Somewhat comically Hillary Clinton warns against the sectarian turmoil in Syria which is a direct consequence of her policy:

"Those who are attempting to exploit the situation by sending in proxies or terrorist fighters must realize that will not be tolerated, first and foremost by the Syrian people," she added.

Clinton of course does not mean the Salafists she and her allies are sending to wage a sectarian civil war in Syria. This warning is meant for Iran which might think of sending some of its own forces, one way or another, into the fight.

Washington plans to increase the effectiveness of the insurgency. On Monday the twitter account THE_47th correctly announced the desertion of the former Syrian prime minister before it was confirmed by anyone else. Yesterday it tweeted this stream:

  • Big meetings in Turkey nxt week betwn newly defected Gens & reps from all FSA factions, incl loose ones in Jebel Azzawiya & Deir Ezzor.
  • Part of Hilary Clinton's visit to Turkey next week is to be briefed on success of this meeting & to make sure the objectives are met.
  • During the meetings, chains of command will further be implimented, inluding factions that are earlier have been fighting on their own.
  • Again, most FSA is somehow linked, and coordinated, except in some areas of the Governorate of Homs, Jabal Azzawya & Deir Ezzor.
  • Objectives: – Introducing the brigades that have been training on heat seeking missiles, assigning them to official brigades.
  • Objectives: – Possibly renaming the Free Syrian Army to the National Free Syrian Army – Joining small brigades into big ones
  • Last point eludes to joining small brigades into bigger ones, just like the Tawheed Brigade (Unity Brigade)
  • Objectives: – Training on Geneva Human Rights Conventions – Overhaul of structure of the command – Intel meetings
  • Manaf Tlass will also be present in next weeks meetings, including the defected officers & unnamed Brig Officers from the Republican Guard.
  • This major initiative comes after Turkey warned Syrian oppo forces that the West is growing wary of Islamist elements, incohesion & HR.
  • Turkey is leading the effort in advising the FSA, training, setting up, supporting & arming the FSA.
  • There's a major campaign to put these "Abdulhameed bla bla Akbar brigade" into legit national units.
  • Now the mtng takes place nxt week, but implimentation will take wks.
  • Good news is: training FSA elements on heat seeking missiles & other SAMs has been done and we shall see it on the ground as of nxt week.
  • anf FYI: most of these SAMs are from Libya for some reason.
  • After successfuly limiting Assad's grnd movement (thanks to IEDs, defections & other anti tank weapons), the battle is now heading skywards.

We do not know if what The_47th says is correct or how much of it is disinformation. But as a medium range plan this reorganization of the insurgency surely makes sense. Parts of that announcement are certainly true. New pictures show insurgents with recoilless anti-tank rifles and man portable surface to air missiles. The playboy general Manaf Tlass seems to be Washington's choice as its front man for a new proxy state in Syria. But many in the opposition do not want him.

But with or without Tlass further the organizing and weaponizing of the radical foreign fighters is unlikely to be enough to bring the Syrian government down. Washington will need more tools and proxies and the most convenient way forward is to bring the Turkish army into the fight.

So when Hillary Clinton travels to Turkey next week this may be what will she will talk about:

[T]he subject she will be discussing in Ankara will not be a pleasing one at all. It is a nasty issue. She will either discuss, as it appears, the creation of a buffer zone in Syria along the Turkish border or Turkey’s striking of selective targets in Syria to speed up the collapse of the Basher al-Assad regime. Regardless, she will be discussing here how Turkey will be pulled into the Syrian mess as if it was not already in that mess up to its nose through legitimate refugee-sheltering programs, supporting and abetting Syrian rebel forces, as well as engaging in alleged clandestine terrorist-brewing efforts in secret camps.

But Turkey is also the weak point in this game. The Turkish foreign policy is in trouble for the support gives to the insurgency in Syria:

Turkey's worst nightmares are beginning to come true in Syria – a protracted sectarian civil war on its long southern border with the emergence of a de facto Kurdish-controlled region friendly to its main domestic foe.

The Syrian conflict is also poisoning Ankara's sensitive relations with Iran, Syria's vital regional ally, and Iraq and complicating ties with Russia, undermining a declared policy of "zero problems" with the neighbours.

Should the attempt to destroy Syria fail the Turkish foreign minister Davutoglu who is leading the project is likely to fall:

[T]he political future of Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu very much depends on the fate of Syria. If the Assad regime falls, then Davutoglu may very well become prime minister. But if the regime survives, Turkey’s top diplomat will be scapegoated and possibly sacked.

The man who came up with a foreign policy of "zero problems towards neighbors" managed to create trouble with each of them.

Despite the looming trouble there are other hints that Turkey may indeed be gearing up for even more involvement. The Turkish prime minister Erdogan is rather suddenly making nice with the Turkish military which long opposed his islamization agenda. This lets one commentator ask:

There must a reason for this change in our esteemed prime minister, who has asserted a strong political will behind the coup-planning cases from the very beginning. Is there a possibility of a war? What can the reason for this change be?

Terrorism in our backyard has been whipped up, countries that we knew as friends now have a hand in creating serious worries for Turkey. Let us leave these arguments over coups in the past and focus on our noble responsibilities.

Making nice with the army while his government holds 68 of its generals in jail will not be easy. I find it unlikely that the Turkish military really wants to fight Washington's proxy war in Syria for Erdogan's gain. Should Erdogan give his army the order to invade Syria the regime change operation against the Syrian government may end up changing his regime.

 

Comments

Posted by: Zico | Aug 9, 2012 5:25:21 PM | 98
No they live in the same one we do…along with other masters of the Big Lie like the regimes of US Israel

Posted by: brian | Aug 9 2012 21:56 utc | 101

Posted by: Merlin2 | Aug 9, 2012 5:18:02 PM | 97
if you checked on ethnicity, your find most of the US medals went to black americans…who even today in the land of the free (market) suffer from being 2nd class citizens…
thats the reason for their medal tallies!..as well as their habit of purloining talent from abroad

Posted by: brian | Aug 9 2012 21:59 utc | 102

Posted by: Zico | Aug 9, 2012 9:39:20 AM | 76
what are french troops doing in jordan?

Posted by: brian | Aug 9 2012 22:00 utc | 103

‘If David Sanger of the NYTimes is any indication of inside Washington thinking, fear that WMD (chem/bio varieties) may get into “the wrong hands”‘
WMDS ARE in the wrong hands and have been for decades!

Posted by: brian | Aug 9 2012 22:11 utc | 104


Gen. James Cartwright, vice chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Gen. David Petraeus, the top US commander in Iraq, gave their word that the cooperation between Turkey and the United States will flush out the outlawed PKK terrorists by May, 2008, said the same source’
Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 9, 2012 5:46:47 PM | 99
so…US empire is still in Iraq! and how ironic they want to flush out the kurds PKK as the Kurds aided the american war machine its war on iraq! some people have no sense of gratitude!
BUT US gives its word…how much faith should anyone put in that!
The irony as we all know is Syria is busy flushing out FSAlqaeda terrorists

Posted by: brian | Aug 9 2012 22:14 utc | 105

Turkey`s blind support and involvement in this war on Syria is greatly contributing to instability in the Middle East. Turkey will be the first country to suffer the consequences if Bashar al-Assad`s government collapse. Maybe it is better for Erdogan to find an exit from this maze before it is too late.
Either that, or he has sold out to the Zionist Axis of Evil, which includes America, Israel, and Saudi Arabia. This may explain why Erdogan didn’t bring justice to Israel for gunning down at point-blank range 7 unarmed Turkish peace activist, who were on an aid ship in international waters, but has decided to arm al-Qaeda terrorists in order to take covert military action against Syria for shooting down 1 Turkish pilot, who had clearly violated Syrian airspace.

Posted by: Cynthia | Aug 9 2012 22:20 utc | 106

A recent Turk battle against the PKK was in Şemdinli, in Hakkâri Province in the extreme SE corner of Turkey, which has Iraq on its south and Iran east. Şemdinli is only ten miles from the Iran border and then it’s only about twenty miles to the Iran city Urmia, 577,000 people. It’s ‘way out there, relative to Ankara for example.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 9 2012 22:33 utc | 107

Interesting questions and issues:
1. What happened to the rebel “supply chain” from the turkish border to Aleppos east, which the rebels had “created” after capturing all border passings between Turkey and Syria?
I cannot imagine that the syrian army has done nothing with regards to that development. It would make sense that they either bomb the border checkpoints or the roads from there to Aleppo to interrupt rebel supply and reinforcement lines.
2. What is going on on the other “frontlines”? E.g. Homs, Hama, Idlib, Deir al Zour, etc.?
According to media claims that syrian army has been redeploying troops from other areas to “save” Damascus and Aleppo, one could assume this would give rebels a major boost especially in the countrysides, but judging from the website below it seems the syrian army is even on the offensive in these areas?
http://documents.sy/newsletter.php?action=download&id=328&lang=en

Posted by: KerKaraje | Aug 9 2012 22:45 utc | 108

@105 Check the date brian. That PKK flushing was supposed to happen in 2008.

Posted by: dh | Aug 9 2012 22:49 utc | 109

KerKaraje @ 108
it seems the syrian army is even on the offensive in these areas?
The Syrian Army has lots of reserve capacity, they don’t have to redirect troops from other areas, capacitywise they have abundance, except for moving expertice from different areas, othervise those are rumors without merit in reality.

Posted by: Alexander | Aug 9 2012 23:27 utc | 110

The US and its puppet master, Israel, will create a no-fly zone over the Kurdish population inside Turkey like they did in Iraq after using Saddam against Iran. This will enable the US and Israel to hit two targets with one bullet, which will eventually harm Turkey in the end, as it did to their previous Muslim ally and friend, Iraq. Saddam’s history of Iraq and Iran war is being repeated in case of Turkey and Syria war. Hate to say it, Erdogan, but you have set yourself up to be on the wrong side of history!

Posted by: Cynthia | Aug 9 2012 23:30 utc | 111

Regarding the olympics, Iran wins it’s 9th medal, a silver in Taekwando.
Ironically, he lost the gold to a Turkish Athlete, so I guess Turkey has won two.

Posted by: Lysander | Aug 9 2012 23:51 utc | 112

Erdogan got persuaded and set up by his foreign minister Davutoglu, hwo got carried away with his hubris, and now they realise they have stepped in a hole of quicksand in a bog. This surely will have a political cost for both Davutoglu and Erdogan.

Posted by: Alexander | Aug 9 2012 23:54 utc | 113

Stepping up the pressure…
The White House refused to comment Thursday on a bombshell Israeli media report that President Barack Obama recently received an updated intelligence assessment that Iran has made surprising strides towards being able to build a nuclear weapon.
The Haaretz newspaper reported that Obama had received a new National Intelligence Estimate (NIE)—the consensus assessment of the American intelligence community—that “Iran has made surprising, notable progress in the research and development of key components of its military nuclear program.” The daily cited unnamed “Western diplomats and Israeli officials.”
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/white-house-mum-reported-iran-nukes-warning-203039311.html

Posted by: dh | Aug 10 2012 0:18 utc | 114

The BBC TV news-channes report the Syrian rebels are being chased out of neighbourhoods in Aleppo, and may tactically withdraw. Tactically withdraw indeed, a schwerpunkt Aleppo indeed. Heh.. when will the rebels concede and engage in political negotiations?

Posted by: Alexander | Aug 10 2012 0:19 utc | 115

Political negotiations? It isn’t like they’re the CSA — Confederate States of America — with any political backing, they’re just roving gangs of terrorists and opportunists, so there will be no negotiations, just a lingering criminal problem, and a lot of eggs on the faces of their Friends of Syria supporters.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 10 2012 1:13 utc | 116

Or, as Ventrell said in yesterday’s State presser:
MR. VENTRELL: Well, I mean, we talk about it sometimes politically, Arshad, in terms of them becoming more united in terms of this broad group of opposition leaders, but we talk about it also on the ground in terms of their ability to communicate, which is something we’ve helped facilitate – their ability to have greater command and control over the various components, so it’s an evolving situation. But that’s the trend line.
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2012/08/196242.htm
They can communicate, thanks to the Friends Of Syria. Like: I said pull the hell out! Now!!
By the way, the State Dept daily briefings have some super journalist attendees, like Said and Arshad. I’m been a student of Defense and State press conferences for years now and I’ve never seen anything like it before. Said is a particular thorn in State’s side. You go, Said and Arshad.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 10 2012 1:23 utc | 117

Alexander @ 110
The Syrian Army has lots of reserve capacity, they don’t have to redirect troops from other areas, capacitywise they have abundance, except for moving expertice from different areas, othervise those are rumors without merit in reality.
That’s not true..Syria has an army of over 300 – 400 thousand active duty personnel and many more in reserve..The Allepo operation required a few thousand men (20+ thousand) to finish the job..The rebels, who number in a few thousands (5 – 10 thousand in total) didn’t stand a chance…That much is clear..

Posted by: Zico | Aug 10 2012 6:30 utc | 118

I guess, Azerbajan is next.
Human rights problems? Never mind.
Not that Baku has any illusions.
“Methods of geopolitical struggle have changed in the world, Gurbanli said.
The MP said the course of events in the Arab world shows that it is geopolitical interests that are behind all of this, and not democratic transformation, noble aims, or desire to overthrow the power which has been for a long time in power.
In particular, control over world regions advantageous from the geographical point of view is behind this and amidst this is control of energy, whereby the hegemonic countries express their interests, Gurbanli said.
“From an outsider’s viewpoint it seems that the forces fighting for power want to bring the country to a new stage, to introduce a new system. But this is not a struggle for a new system. If those who support the forces opposing the Syrian government are really against human rights violations, why they show indifference to the fate of hundreds of thousands of people expelled from their native lands as a result of aggression?” he added.
In his view, the purpose of these processes is not to introduce a democratic system in Arab countries. These are totally different purpose – self-assertion in the fight to control the world’s energy resources, and geopolitical interests.”

Posted by: somebody | Aug 10 2012 6:53 utc | 119

Western leaders slip back into their childhood
Western leaders slip back into their childhood
by Thierry Meyssan
The slogan “Bashar must go!” was supposed to be chanted by crowds of protesters in Damascus and Aleppo. In the absence of such demonstrations, it has been taken over by Western leaders themselves even though it goes against all the conventional rules of diplomacy. Why?
Voltaire Network | Damascus (Syria) | 8 August 2012
http://www.voltairenet.org/Western-leaders-slip-back-into
“Bashar al-Assad must go!”
In 1985, a social scientist, Gene Sharp, published a study commissioned by NATO on Making Europe Unconquerable. He pointed out that ultimately a government only exists because people agree to obey it. The USSR could never control Western Europe if people refused to obey Communist governments.
A few years later, in 1989, Sharp was tasked by the CIA with conducting the practical application of his theoretical research in China. The United States wanted to topple Deng Xiaoping in favor of Zhao Ziyang. The intention was to stage a coup with a veneer of legitimacy by organizing street protests, in much the same way as the CIA had given a popular facade to the overthrow of Mohammed Mossadegh by hiring Tehran demonstrators (Operation Ajax, 1953). The difference here is that Gene Sharp had to rely on a mix of pro-Zhao and pro-US youth to make the coup look like a revolution. But Deng had Sharp arrested in Tiananmen Square and expelled from the country. The coup failed, but not before the CIA spurred the youth groups into a vain attack to discredit Deng through the crackdown that followed. The failure of the operation was attributed to the difficulties of mobilizing young activists in the desired direction.
Ever since the work of French sociologist Gustave Le Bon in the late nineteenth century, we know that adults behave like children when they are in the throes of collective emotion. They become susceptible, even if for just a critical fleeting moment, to the suggestions of a leader-of-men who for them embodies a father figure. In 1990, Sharp got close to Colonel Reuven Gal, then chief psychologist of the Israeli Army (he later became deputy national security adviser to Ariel Sharon and now runs operations designed to manipulate young Israeli non-Jews). Combining the discoveries of Le Bon and Sigmund Freud, Gal reached the conclusion that it was also possible to exploit the “Oedipus complex” in adolescents and steer a crowd of young people to oppose a head of state, as a symbolic father figure.
On this basis, Sharp and Gal set up training programs for young activists with the objective of organizing coups. After a few successes in Russia and the Baltics, it was in 1998 that Gene Sharp perfected the method of “color revolutions” with the overthrow of Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic.
After President Hugo Chavez foiled a coup in Venezuela on the basis of one of my investigations revealing the role and method of Gene Sharp, the latter suspended the activities of the Albert Einstein Institute which served as a cover and went on to create new structures (CANVAS in Belgrade, the Academy of Change in London, Vienna and Doha). We saw them at work the world over, especially in Lebanon (Cedar Revolution), Iran (Green Revolution), Tunisia (Jasmine Revolution) and Egypt (Lotus Revolution). The principle is simple: exacerbate all underlying frustrations, blame the political apparatus for all the problems, manipulate the youth according to the Freudian “patricidal” scenario, organize a coup, and then propagandize that the government was brought down by the “street.”
International public opinion easily swallowed these stage settings: first, because of a confusion between a crowd and the people. Thus, the “Lotus Revolution” actually boiled down to a show on Tahrir Square in Cairo, mobilizing a crowd of tens of thousands, while the near totality of the Egyptian people abstained from taking part in the event; and second, because there is a lack of clarity with regard to the word “revolution”. A genuine revolution entails an upheaval in social structures that takes place over several years, while a “color revolution” is a regime change that occurs within weeks. The other term for a forced change of leadership without social transformation is a “coup d’état”. In Egypt, for example, it is clearly not the people who pushed Hosni Mubarak to resign, but U.S. Ambassador Frank Wisner who gave him the order.
The slogan of the “color revolutions” harks back to an infantile perspective; What matters is to overthrow the head of state without consideration of the consequences—“Don’t worry about your future, Washington will take care of everything for you.” By the time people wake up, it’s too late; the government has been usurped by individuals not of their choosing. At the outset though, there are cries of “Down with Shevardnadze!” Or “Ben Ali, get out!” The latest version was launched at the third conference of “Friends” of Syria (Paris, July 6): “Bashar must go!”
A strange anomaly can be detected with regard to Syria. The CIA did not locate groups of young Syrians willing to chant this slogan in the streets of Damascus and Aleppo. So it is Barack Obama, François Hollande, David Cameron and Angela Merkel themselves who repeat the slogan in chorus from their respective foreign offices. Washington and its allies are trying out the methods of Gene Sharp on the “international community”. It is a risky bet to imagine that foreign ministries can be as easy to manipulate as youth groups! At the moment, the result is simply ridiculous: the leaders of the colonial powers have been stomping their feet like angry, frustrated children over a desired object that the Russian and Chinese adults won’t let them have while ceaselessly wailing “Bashar must go!”.

Posted by: brian | Aug 10 2012 8:17 utc | 120

Ahhh..The stupidity that keep giving…
UK has now decided to donate £5 Million to the fsa..Seems NATO have now adopted “war on the cheap” strategy to achieve their objectives..
Can this public declaration be now considered State sponsors of terror? Where is the UN to condemn this? The world is really f*cked with leaders like the once currently ruling the west..
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/britain-to-give-5-mln-to-syria-rebels.aspx?pageID=238&nID=27496&NewsCatID=351

Posted by: Zico | Aug 10 2012 9:06 utc | 121

Our leaders are indeed infantile.. not fit to rule, no wonder the world is going tits up. Brian @ 121, Gene Sharp’s recipy of regime-change has been extremely successful, hopefully people will wake up to the fact that these revoultions lack legitimacy in the form of democratic foundation, popular support.

Posted by: Alexander | Aug 10 2012 11:14 utc | 122

Syria: There Goes the Neighborhood
As fighting intensifies in Syria, three fragile states next door are being drawn toward the war
“We have to set very clear expectations about avoiding sectarian warfare,” said U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton as she prepared to attend an emergency conference in Turkey on Saturday to address the Syrian crisis. “Those who are attempting to exploit the situation by sending in proxies or terrorist fighters must realize that will not be tolerated, first and foremost by the Syrian people.” Clinton didn’t elaborate, but such is the state of the fighting that American allies like Saudi Arabia and Qatar might have been the target of her remarks, and not just adversaries like Iran and Hezbollah.
“According to a source with close ties to the palace in Amman, the Saudis have been pressuring the king to allow arms and soldiers to move through Jordan’s northern border into Syria, but the Americans have pushed back, not least to try to protect the teetering monarchy. Doubtless Abdullah would like to do the bidding of the Gulf, which literally underwrites his regime, and the United States, which has been Jordan’s protector, but they are not bidding him to do the same thing. The king “doesn’t have the strength on the inside to maneuver his way through difficult allies,” according to this source.”
end quote
as a matter of fact Jordan seems to have taken part in Iran’s Friends of Syria meeting

Posted by: somebody | Aug 10 2012 12:04 utc | 123

The next time the US and her allies make any statement on fighting terrorism, the whole world will laugh..They have totally destroyed the international order where respect for a country’s sovereignty was the redline..
Now they’ve taken it upon themselves to be the bearers and imposers of the “ultimate good”(aka freedom and democracy) on mankind and deciders of the fate and destiny of other states..All empires throughout history fell due to this hubris and flawed way of thinking..They won’t be any different.
The shock the financial crisis has caused their economies/societies is making them do a lot of stupid things abroad to salvage their global standing.But what goes up must definitely come down..Game over!!!

Posted by: Zico | Aug 10 2012 12:32 utc | 124

How the British FM lies about his country’s donation to terrorists in Syria with a straight face is just breathtaking…He want’s us to believe this money will ONLY be used to buy medicine? Yeah right..More like black market arms purchase to me..And we all know most black market arms merchants have connections to many western politicians..Won’t be surprise if this Hague guys gets his cut from the £5 million..Imagine Syria announcing they’ll donate £5 million to the London rioters earlier this year to effectively communicate? The outrage!!!
The UN is effectively dead as of today..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19207895

Posted by: Zico | Aug 10 2012 13:10 utc | 125

I bet a part of that money will be exchanged to currencies which allow them to be used for wages for the mercenaries and defectors, as well as weapons.

Posted by: Alexander | Aug 10 2012 13:24 utc | 126

Hague (and US) are spending money on something they no longer control politically
This here is from Hague’s conservative constituency
Political correctness is trumping reality in the West’s approach to Syria
it is very reactionary but that’s what British conservatives are …
“This is not the case. Has no one noticed that there is a fundamentalist, violent Islamist insurgency all across North Africa and the Middle East, extolled by the blissfully ignorant as “the Arab Spring”? Libya and Egypt are in chaos and darker forces than any imagined by the BBC and The Guardian are seizing the reins of power and will, given time, pose a more perilous threat to world peace than that exercised by such as Gaddafi or Assad.
Moreover, the revolution is not confined to North Africa and the Middle East. We must observe also what is going on in Sudan and Somalia, Mali, Yemen, Nigeria and half a dozen other loci of instability.
The fact is that every few hundred years there is a militant Islamist insurgency. It has to be defeated. It was defeated at the Battle of Tours, at Lepanto, in Malta. Only a few centuries ago, they were at gates of Vienna. And if we don’t take decisive action, they will soon be there again.
These are, as Miss Austen would say, truths universally acknowledged. Only freedom of speech and the insistence on the reality quotient is trumped by abject political correctness every time. This political-correctness will be the death of us.”
Someone will have to fund the humanitarian crisis they sparked, too …
The UN states now that “the conflict engulfing Syria would have no winner”
That means negotions …

Posted by: somebody | Aug 10 2012 14:01 utc | 127

It’s become somewhat quiet on Syria over the last few days, at least in german newspapers. My guess is that the syrian army has shut down Aleppo and going down on the “rebels”.

Posted by: peter radiator | Aug 10 2012 14:20 utc | 128

I wouldn’t be too concerned about aid money because if history is a guide most if not all of it will be pocketed by people who are far removed from the action, if the money is actually disbursed in the first place. In Haque’s case he’s just doing what he’s told to do by his Washington masters who have to appear as if they’re “doing something.” It’s been a subject of discussion at the State Dept. press conferences, how many million were sent when and why and for what and the State spokesperson generally never has a clue — they mainly focus on the numbers of millions of dollars, as if it really means anything.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 10 2012 14:41 utc | 129

2127 Nobody in the West wants to be seen as pro-Assad. That’s how demonization works. So stressing the Islamic threat may be the most effective way to combat this stupidity.

Posted by: dh | Aug 10 2012 14:58 utc | 130

The UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon couldn’t attend the recent meeting in Tehran of course, his US minders wouldn’t let him. But Ban did have a statement read on the US — er, UN — position which promises more of the same.
“The Action Group agreed that any transition in Syria should include a transitional governing body, which can establish a neutral environment in which the transition can take place, and which would exercise full executive powers.”
In plain English — the US wants Assad outa there, so let’s get with the program.
“However, since then, there has been no follow-through. Instead, the situation has worsened. Now the international community must again find common ground. The important work that Joint Special Envoy, Mr. Kofi Annan, has undertaken must continue.”
Actually Kofi Annan was ordered to Syria only to observe but — surprise! — his mandate was expanded to include prattling about a Washington-written six-point plan for curtailing the Syria military and changing the government. Ban:
” We must use all of the peaceful means in the UN Charter to help them unite around a Syrian-led transition process that is based on dialogue and compromise by all sides on the ground, not bullets, arrests, abductions and intimidation. This process should also preserve Syria’s unity and territorial integrity.”
The UN Charter includes no such authority for the UN.
#All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.
#Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter VII. [Chap VII not invoked in Syria]

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 10 2012 15:02 utc | 131

dh, I agree, that is presumably the reason everybody talks about the Islamist threat now.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 10 2012 15:23 utc | 132

@132 those videos of ‘young activists’ executing ‘regime sympathizers’ may have been the tipping point.

Posted by: dh | Aug 10 2012 15:26 utc | 133

so it seems Aleppo was a schwerpunkt after all, judging from the silences of the MSM
if so, the West is momentarily out of options, until it manages a new build up of “controllable” rebel forces
maybe the Us were ready to exert pressure on the Turks to intervene (and we’ll never know if successfully or not) if the rebels had managed to entrench in Aleppo, but in the present circumstances a Turkish lonely aggression is outlandish
taken for granted that the Empire won’t back down, what can the alternatives be?
if the Turks insist in their belligerent attitude towards Assad, their own “regime change” scenario described by b in his post will become very probable (on the other hand, if the Turks rethink their stance towards the Syrian crisis, all the western strategy and rhetoric crumbles, and we might witness “regime change” in the Us!)
the Turks now appear to be tinkering with alliances with Kurdish tribes interested in the promise of autonomy from the Syrian state after the fall of Assad, maybe with the idea of weakening the position of the stronger tribes in Turkish territory
meanwhile, while the next folly is being prepared, the usual vendettas (read: aid to terrorists) will be taken against Syria

Posted by: claudio | Aug 10 2012 15:32 utc | 134

claudio, my impression was that the Turks (et al) tried to pressure the US/Nato to intervene and that the US (Obama) very studiously did not intervene except for psychological warfare (Assad must go) and inviting the Turks (et al) to intervene, like saying “after you” all the time much to the frustration of Hillary Clinton, Mc Cain (et al) Hillary Clinton might be guilty of having promised too much
Nato very clearly stated repeatedly they would not intervene.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 10 2012 16:07 utc | 135

War Goddess Clinton visits Istanbul tomorrow and WaPo has some teasers on Clinton meeting “activists.”

Clinton has never met any of the activists she will see Saturday, two State Department officials said. She will meet no armed fighters or commanders, they said. Previous meetings with opposition groups have revolved around an umbrella group of political exiles.
Other U.S. officials said a goal of the Istanbul trip is to ensure that Clinton sees a more diverse array of opposition figures than the longtime expatriates she has met. Although U.S. officials did not provide names or significant detail about the possible participants, some are likely to be activists who recently fled Syria or who travel in and out.
The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because the list of participants is not set, and they cautioned that identifying some of some activists publicly would put them in greater danger.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 10 2012 16:20 utc | 136

Ankara (and its minders in Washington)seems to be going nuts. With SecState Clinton on her way to Istanbul regarding the hot Syria topic–
–U.S. officials said a goal of the Istanbul trip is to ensure that Clinton sees a more diverse array of opposition figures than the longtime expatriates she has met.
–A Turkish delegation led by Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu on Thursday held talks with Myanmar [Burma] leaders on boosting bilateral relations as well as the plight of Rohingya Muslims in that South Asian country.
And then there’s Iran-
— Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Bülent Arınç slammed Iran on Thursday, saying that the Turkish government is disturbed by Iran’s stance against Turkey. The Turkish minister implied that a recent surge in terror attacks in Turkey’s Southeast has the backing of Iran. “We have received information that Kurdistan Workers’ Party [PKK] terrorists infiltrated from the Iranian side of the border and that they were stationed in the Şehidan camp [in Iran] and crossed into Turkey from the region of Harkuk in northern Iraq,” he said.
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-289166-.html
Payback’s a bitch.
On the latter, from a source(?):
The report, according to intelligence reports, Iran and the PKK in the Şehidan camp, this camp is located at least 200 terrorists came and attacked especially Yüksekova’ya Semdinli and information took place.
http://www.habermonitor.com/en/haber/detay/true/214693/
Iran supporting the PKK! It wasn’t long ago that a lot of US pols were doing the same, because PKK was anti-Iran. Hah. The joke’s on them.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 10 2012 16:45 utc | 137

back to the thread title:
Could The War On Syria Create Regime Change in Ankara?
The Syria issue and its PKK component (with its attacks in Turkey stronger than first reported) have paralyzed Turkey’s government. The PM has been exiled to Burma and the Parliament is cowering.
Today’s Zaman
Parliament unlikely to hold urgent session on Aug. 14
Both the ruling Justice and Development Party (AK Party) and the opposition Nationalist Movement Party (MHP) have declared their reluctance to attend the session, saying an urgent parliamentary session would further encourage the terrorist Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) to go ahead with its terrorist activities.
Çiçek’s call for an extraordinary parliamentary session followed a request from the main opposition Republican People’s Party (CHP) to hold a session to discuss terror and Syria-related developments. The CHP’s move came in the wake of simultaneous attacks on four military outposts in the southeastern province of Hakkari by terrorists of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) on Sunday. The attacks left six soldiers and two village guards dead.
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-289189-parliament-unlikely-to-hold-urgent-session-on-aug-14.html

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 10 2012 16:57 utc | 138

@somebody #135 – I see it as a two-step process: first the Us / NATO encouraged Erdogan to take the political lead of the aggression against Assad; this was on the wake of the Libyan aggression, of which Syria should substantially have been a repetition; then, when the Syrian rebels failed to establish a “Syrian Bengazi”, Russia and China confirmed their vetoes, the assassination of top officials and the Damascus assault failed to precipitate a crisis within the regime, etc, Erdogan found himself out on a limb;
at that point my conjecture is that the Us kept pressuring the rebels and Turkey for some decisive action, and that Erdogan was all too willing to play along; the plan they devised was to create this Aleppo entrenchment, which should have been followed, at some point, by a military intervention by Turkey; one of the details that hadn’t been worked out was that Erdogan absolutely wanted NATO cover and support for this operation, but NATO denied it to him; what would have happened if the rebels had shown more resilience in Aleppo, we will never know (it could even be that, a certain point, many felt that that of the rebels “losing” Aleppo was the best option for all involved)
friends of the Empire often find themselves in embarrassing positions

Posted by: claudio | Aug 10 2012 17:23 utc | 139

There will probably be a few incidents when Hillary gets there. That’s the way messages are sent these days.

Posted by: dh | Aug 10 2012 17:25 utc | 140

They got taken in by their own “Syria is crumbling” rhetoric, and they still are.
The growing US belief in “strategic communications,” i.e. coordinated, multi-media government propaganda advancing policy strategies, works to a point until it becomes a detriment to intelligent action, especially if the strategic communications have been so effective that even the decison-makers have been taken in by it.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 10 2012 17:38 utc | 141

@Don Bacon #136 – “War Goddess Clinton” 🙂 competes with “Killery Clinton”
@Don Bacon #138 – Kurds and their tribal / political divisions are dangerous stuff to handle, it very easily explodes in your face …
yes, regime change in Turkey seems closer by the day
@Don Bacon #141 – good point on the “strategic communications” drawbacks

Posted by: claudio | Aug 10 2012 17:46 utc | 142

fsa terrorists getting decimated in Allepo..This is the army the West expect to win the battle in Syria..Return on investment? 0!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw-1RN3CgO8&feature=player_embedded

Posted by: Zico | Aug 10 2012 17:47 utc | 143

Zico, they look like young kids caught up in shit. It is like giving weapons to Paris banlieues or Hackney and Brixton, or Kreuzberg and Friedrichshain, having them called terrorists and then shot at. I am pretty sure they have very good reasons to protest, they are being used terribly.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 10 2012 18:15 utc | 144

back to Turkey
I seriously do think their foreign policy is not sustainable :-))

Posted by: somebody | Aug 10 2012 18:23 utc | 145

for techies-
Masum Türker, chairman of Turkey’s Democratic Left Party (DSP), has claimed that it was a Russian warship, and not Syria, that shot down a Turkish aircraft over the Mediterranean on June 22. According to Türker, the Turkish jet was downed by a new-generation electromagnetic missile shot from one of the Russian warships which was in the region at the time of the incident. “New-generation missiles do not explode, but block the electronic systems,” Türker told Today’s Zaman in an exclusive interview. . . On July 8, Defense Minister İsmet Yılmaz raised eyebrows when he revealed that an examination of the pieces from the wreckage of the plane showed no sign of a missile attack or anti-aircraft fire.
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-289198-dsp-leader-russia-downed-jet-with-new-generation-missile.h
EMP Systems
“Russia is among the best in the world when it comes to manufacturing this type of electronic weapon,” said Anders Kallenaas of the Swedish National Defense’s Research Institute (FOA). Quoting the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet (1-23-98), the news agency AFP said the high-power microwave bombs (“bear cans”) could be bought on the Russian market for “several hundreds of thousands kronor” (< $150,000) and had already been bought by the Australian military among others. It said the bomb was stored in a briefcase and emitted short, high-energy pulses reaching 10 gigawatts, which could destroy complex electronics systems. http://www.tfd.chalmers.se/~valeri/EMP.html
wiki
An electromagnetic pulse (sometimes abbreviated EMP) is a burst of electromagnetic radiation. The abrupt pulse of electromagnetic radiation usually results from certain types of high energy explosions, especially a nuclear explosion, or from a suddenly fluctuating magnetic field. The resulting rapidly-changing electric fields and magnetic fields may couple with electrical/electronic systems to produce damaging current and voltage surges.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 10 2012 18:47 utc | 146

Don Bacon @ 146
If that account is true, I guess we can cross NATO no-fly-zone off the list..

Posted by: Zico | Aug 10 2012 19:19 utc | 147

@Zico
Right, and it goes further, to the trillion-dollar F-35 program and such.
The Democratization of Electronic Warfare — What keeps the head of DARPA up at night? The “democratization of technology,” is what Ken Gabriel, the agency’s deputy director told lawmakers last week. He’s not just talking about hackers who can quickly develop cyber weapons capable of penetrating the Pentagons networks or terrorists using smart-phones, twitter and google earth to plot attacks and avoid government forces, he was also referring to the fact that even relatively poor nations or terrorist groups can buy 90-percent of the electronics needed to make advanced electronic warfare gear on the open commercial market.
http://defensetech.org/2012/03/05/the-democratization-of-electronic-warfare/
And then there’s complicated US military hardware the trillion-dollar F-35 Strike Fighter, which is already hampered by millions lines of software code that isn’t quite right yet plus the aircraft is not allowed within 25 nm of predicted lightning.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 10 2012 20:00 utc | 148

yep, it is on par with the kalashnikovs and ied …
that is why US/Nato is now done with conventional warfare but outsource to guerilla groups, problem is they no longer have any control of the outcome (i.e. Libya, now Syria) – not that they controlled the outcome before really …
the electromagnetic missile might have been even Syrian – Russia sold this to Syria
no, it is clear that there will be no no-fly-zone, they would have done that if it had been feasible, the “FSA” had enough countryside across the border with Turkey …

Posted by: somebody | Aug 10 2012 20:17 utc | 149

Some of the dual-purpose technology Iran are being suspected about are probably part of advanced EMP research, and there is probably some cooperation with Russia on EMP device development. Taking out civilian technology with EMP has reached a point of highly useful applications, even strictly military western technology is probably not hardened sufficiently to not be susceptible to a run-off-the-mill EMP device.

Posted by: Alexander | Aug 10 2012 20:26 utc | 150

As a sidenote, American scientists who studied the first MIG-29s for technical comparisons got huge laughs to see they were using ancient electron-tube technology instead of transistor and IC technology. However, the wiring of the Soviet MIGs were resistent to nuclear Electro-Magnetic-Pulses, whereas the US F-16s with their transistors and ICs were not.

Posted by: Alexander | Aug 10 2012 20:35 utc | 151

news report, 2009–Amid speedy relationship developments between Belarus and Iran, a report says the former Soviet state is selling Tehran the Russian-made Iskander-M tactical missile systems.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 10 2012 20:50 utc | 152

Newt Gingrich, as a recent candidate, was ridiculed for his scary talk on nuclear-explosion generated EMP. But now they can put it in a “bear can?”

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 10 2012 20:54 utc | 153

Yes-yes.. EMP-generation is basically accomplished by charging condesators with high voltage, and then using high-voltage-protection-fuses to discharge the current into a flat-spiral coil or magnetron.

Posted by: Alexander | Aug 10 2012 21:00 utc | 154

Very simple principle, and all can be done with simple and old technology. Some designs use explosives for triggering high-velocity switches.

Posted by: Alexander | Aug 10 2012 21:02 utc | 155

The Turks are not going to intervene militarily in Syria, because of the Syrian Kurd issue. I thought that the Arabs of Antakya might be a problem, but apparently not. However, the Syrian Kurds are now looking for autonomy, like their relations in Iraq, once released from the domination of Damascus. This is a big danger for Turkey – more support for the PKK.
If they have have any sense, the Turks will go back to supporting Asad. Anything else indicates new war in Eastern Anatolia.

Posted by: alexno | Aug 10 2012 21:30 utc | 156

Payback’s a bitch — Part II
Turkey: A Baffling 24 Hours
In Istanbul, it’s easier to get news from Mars than Hakkari
Claire Berlinski, August 9, 2012
I confess freely that I’m finding it difficult to make sense of recent events in Turkey, and I submit that anyone offering a confident analysis is exaggerating either his access or his analytic acumen. There is obviously a great deal happening; but the people who understand it aren’t talking, and the people who are talking don’t understand it.
*This morning, there was a terrorist attack in Izmir that claimed the life of a Turkish soldier and injured eleven more. A remotely-controlled land mine exploded as a military bus was passing on a road in the Aegean town of Foça. The attack is believed to be the work of the PKK.
*Meanwhile, there is something close to a news blackout about the battle of Şemdinli, in the Southeast. Some reports are trickling out, and while I don’t know what to make of them, I am certain the news isn’t good.
*Yesterday, the same reporter, Nilay Vardir, observed that — [t]he clashes are raging over an area 600 square kilometers wide, including Mt. Goman and Mt. Efkar across the district center. Over 500 villagers were forced to evacuate their homes in the days that followed the eruption of the conflict. The PKK (Kurdistan Workers’ Party) has run “identity checks” on many village roads, and even on the road to Yüksekova. The “identity cheks,” which are cited as the main reason that ignited the conflict, are a means for the PKK to assert its presence, according to what I have heard.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3263/turkey-a-baffling-24-hours

Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 10 2012 22:04 utc | 157

Does anyone need a good laugh?
Here excerpts of an interview with leading FSA General Mustafa al Shaikh, dated February 05, 2012:
” “The army will collapse during February,” he said. “The reasons are the shortage of Syrian army personnel, which even before March 15 last year did not exceed 65 per cent. The proportion of equipment that was combat ready did not exceed that, due to a shortage of spare parts.
“The Syrian army combat readiness I would put at 40 per cent for hardware and 32 per cent for personnel.
“They are sending in elements from the Shabiha (militia) and the Alawite sect to compensate, but this army is unable to continue more than a month.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9061432/Syrias-most-senior-defector-Assads-army-is-close-to-collapse.html

Posted by: KerKaraje | Aug 10 2012 22:16 utc | 158

I do not think the PKK can be switched on and off – likely Syrians made a deal with them and will stand by it. The significant thing is the Syrians seem to have made a deal with Barzani via the PYD and that means the Kurds got a real chance of some kind of state.
Turks do not like it, with Iraqui, Syrian and Turkish Kurds united they do not stand a chance.
Plus, Iran seems to play a complex game with the PKK.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 11 2012 6:26 utc | 159

Basically Iran made sure, Turkey would have to attack Iran in pursuit of Kurds, not Syria …

Posted by: somebody | Aug 11 2012 7:07 utc | 160

dh 130, yep, most exemplary recent exhibit: Israeli ynet linking to Russia Today interviewing Christoph Hoerstel
Christoph Hoerstel is a German journalist who forfeited his reputation as mainstream journalist by insisting obsessively that the US has a strategy of “terror management” in Afghanistan and Iraq i.e. supporting and fighting Al Queida at the same time …

Posted by: somebody | Aug 11 2012 7:15 utc | 161

somebody @ 160
Turkey has a lot of enemies in the region and they know it..From Greeks, Armenians, Kurds, Iranians, Syrians, Russians..How the f*ck do they expect to survive this?
Kurds are more in line with the Iranians than Turks..It’s easy for Iran to make a deals with the PKK than Turkey could ever do..The frantic diplomatic move by Davutoglu to bring Barzani into Turkey’s sphere of influence is a joke and weak alliance.I wouldn’t count on it so much.Remember Barzani is like the Mafia family of Iraqi Kurdistan – an opportunist looking for the easiest way to make the quickest buck.If Iran want him gone, he will.he’s already been warned by Iran on his flirting with mossad on his soil…This move will alienate Barzani among his local supporters in Arbil and give more power to the PKK and affiliates..Barzani is now seen as Erdogan stooge fighting against Kurds..This has consequences.
Iran’s problem with the PJAK was a fluke..And PJAK don’t have strong links with PKK..Last time the PJAK fought Iran, they were decimated and had to make a deal in the end.

Posted by: Zico | Aug 11 2012 7:21 utc | 162

well this is the US side
“But the White House fears that military involvement could intensify a sectarian proxy war, and it worries about divisions among world powers and war-weariness at home. Also, Syria has formidable Russian-built air defenses that are supported by Russian personnel.
Susan Rice, U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, told MSNBC on Thursday that “the reality is that a no-fly zone is not a simple proposition” and would involve putting in troops as well as destroying air defenses “that are among the most sophisticated in the world. …
Polls indicate that there is not widespread support for a majorU.S. militaryrole in Syria despite the mounting death toll.
About two-thirds of Americans say the United States is not required to intervene militarily in Syria because they believe that it is “important but not vital” to U.S. security, said Andrew Kohut, president of the Pew Research Center.”

Posted by: somebody | Aug 11 2012 7:47 utc | 163

‘”They are sending in elements from the Shabiha (militia) and the Alawite sect to compensate, but this army is unable to continue more than a month.”‘
there are no ‘shabiha’ to send. or is the fellow refering to those citizens armed by the govt to defend there regions against the insurgency?

Posted by: brian | Aug 11 2012 7:55 utc | 164

this is a joke
“In Istanbul, Clinton is expected to announce an additional $5.5 million in aid for those fleeing fighting that monitoring groups say has now claimed over 21,000 lives.
Turkey is currently home to more than 50,000 refugees living in camps along the Syrian border.”
that is $110 per person, saying at the same time that there is no known end date.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 11 2012 9:03 utc | 165

brian @ 164
The term “Shabiha” is used about many different broups not alligned with the rebels. Everything from Alawites, military intelligence, villages vith loyalty towards the government rather than rebels, secret police, mafia-style criminals, military intelligence, to civil security personnel.

Posted by: Alexander | Aug 11 2012 9:29 utc | 166

“fighting Al Queida” begins
with a comment by Anthony Cartalucci · Bangkok, Thailand
“Ask yourself this question – Where is Al Qaeda getting the weapons, cash, and support to carry out such an extensive and allegedly expanding operation?
Answer? Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Hariri in Lebanon, Qatar, Kuwait, Oman, and of course last but certainly not least, the US and UK. Go read Seymour Hersh’s 2007 article “The Redirection” published in the New Yorker where he interviews officials in both the US and Saudi Arabia who admit they were working on this even back then.
Al Qaeda isn’t independent – it is state sponsored – of course, obviously it has to be for the size of the operations it carries out. So who is funding it? The US is having a laugh trying to convince people Iran and Syria are behind these terrorists, even as they attack and ravage BOTH countries (FSA in Syria, MEK in Iran).”

Posted by: somebody | Aug 11 2012 10:47 utc | 167

Alexander#166
Not to mention the guys wearing camoflage fatigues and white shoes who commit atrocities and are identified by alleged neighbors as “shabiha.” How hard is it for anyone to procure fatigues and white sneakers in Syria?

Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Aug 12 2012 7:23 utc | 168

Post office workers thrown from window of building by the foreign backed insurgents in Syria. These are the Libyan Jordanian and gulf terrorists the US has brought Syria. These are the democratic peace loving protesters that supposed to take over power in Syria according to the US/NATO/Israel/GCC http://youtu.be/fzOfk3cdXl4

Posted by: brian | Aug 12 2012 9:45 utc | 169