Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 06, 2012

Syria: NATO Smacks Turkey And Other News

Continuing its current offensive the Syrian army took control of the rebel stronghold of Khan Sheikhoun in northern Idlib province. Throughout the last weeks the insurgents have lost ground wherever the army went. It is likely that they will now try to capture some other town and for the chase to continue for a while.

Hillary Clinton is ignoring the sorry state her mercenaries are in and tried to push the other participants of today's "enemies of Syria" conference to make Russia and China "pay a price" for not agreeing to her imperial project in Syria. Those other will nod and silently agree that to ask for 5 cents might be sufficient.

The Syrian brigade general Manaf Tlass has left the country. He has been under the Syrian governments scrutiny for some time and had lost his command in May 2011. His first cousin, Abdul Razak Tlass, is the leader of the infamous Al Farouq brigade in Rastan/Homs. As Manaf Tlass is a former regime stalwart he may not be welcomed by the exile opposition.

In other news:

The Iraqi foreign minister warned that further Al-Qaeda fighters are infiltrating into Syria.

It appears that Turkey had indeed asked for NATO to create a contingency plan for a no-fly zone over Syria after its reconnaissance jet was shot down by the Syrian air-defense. The request was turned down. This NATO smackdown news is another loss of face for Erdogan.

Bashar Assad appears self confident and straight in his interview with the Turkish daily Cumhurieyt: Part 1, 2, 3 and 4.

A new UN Secretary General report on the UN mission and the situation in Syria was published today. The observer mission is currently unable to work and is likely to be downsized. Some details from the report confirm aspects of the opposition that are missing in western reporting:

15. From 8 June, coinciding with the Free Syrian Army’s withdrawal of commitment to the six-point plan, citing lack of progress in its implementation, UNSMIS noted the intensification of armed conflict. The armed opposition and at least some elements of the political opposition, as well as the Government had, it appeared, determined to pursue a military strategy.
The opposition escalated and intensified its attacks on Government checkpoints and positions in proximity to opposition locations, bombing of critical infrastructure, and assassinations of Government officials and senior officers.
22. Daily shelling of Homs has continued since 25 May. The evacuation of civilians has not yet been possible, as armed opposition groups have not yet agreed to observe the necessary humanitarian pause, despite UNSMIS facilitation.
29. UNSMIS also received reports from members of the public as well as of the Government of persons deprived of liberty by armed opposition groups. In most cases, these groups denied to UNSMIS that they had any persons in their custody. In several cases, opposition contacts confirmed to UNSMIS that such persons were in their custody. UNSMIS received reports from pro-Government individuals of demands for payment or ammunition in exchange for release of abductees held by armed opposition groups. Though not able to verify the claim, one reliable source informed UNSMIS that persons deprived of liberty by armed groups are frequently subjected to a quick “trial”, followed by arbitrary executions.

How can anyone suggest it would good for the Syrians to hand over their country to these folks?

Posted by b on July 6, 2012 at 16:42 UTC | Permalink

next page »

1-) On 21st june,a Sryian Pilot escaped from Syria to Jordan with his JET FIGHTER..Because Israel,Erdogan and Jordan gave him money and he stayed in a Hotel in Amman.There are sheets that proves he stayed there in 19th June..

2-) After Syrian pilot escaped to Jordan,Mossad took password codes and flight codes from fighter.And bring them to Incirlik Base(American base in Adana,Turkey) they took codes to Malatya and put them in this Turkish jet fighter,Erdoğan gave the order.

3-) on 22nd June 2 jets (one of them had Syrian flight codes) entered in Syrian air field to understand whether they recognize it or not! Assad knew that they(Israel) stole flight codes so they fired flight but they thought that it was an ISRAELI JET FIGHTER...

4-) thats why Assad said " even it was a Syrian jet we were going to shot it down " because he knew the codes was stolen..But interesting part is Syria thought that Israel will do it on 22nd June but it was Turkish. Erdogan stabbed Assad's back because of orders from Clinton and Tptb...

Posted by: nikon | Jul 6 2012 16:53 utc | 1

That NATO smack down also means that the campaign by the West to turn Syria into a failed state will not proceed in exactly the same manner as the NATO campaign against Libya. It will be up to the proxies of the proxies.....meaning aid will continue to be given to the "Rebels" via Saudi Arabia, and therefore Saudi Arabia is the first proxy and the "Rebels" are the second proxy. Proxy derivatives. You gotta love it.

If the West were to succeed to dethrone Assad after a long and bloody slog, I wonder if they'll manage to install a NASA rocket scientist as the next president like they did in Egypt?

Posted by: pl | Jul 6 2012 17:18 utc | 2

yes, yes. It seems that each day, now, for the last 15 months, Assad is poised for a decisive victory.

you're like the Press Secretary for van Bock during the siege of Stalingrad, vigilantly reporting that every day, pockets of local resistance are being swept away.

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 6 2012 17:30 utc | 3

slothrop, I guess they have been waiting with the heavy stuff until they could be sure there will be no intervention ...

Russia today does some real reporting with a clearly horrified reporter showing the two different parts of Homs

b. I do not think there can be reconciliation after something like this, they just prolonged the fight into another generation.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 6 2012 17:41 utc | 4

Although, the NATO smack down could also be interpreted to mean that the Plutocrats wouldn't mind Turkey and Syria going at each other. Maybe their thinking is, both would be weakened, plenty of money can be made off the arms sales, and Syria will still fail in the end. Of course, doing that could end up giving too many spoils to Turkey if it proved to be victorious, but then again, if Turkey went that route, ultimately they would have to borrow, and when they borrow, they let the wolves in to divide and conquer.

Posted by: pl | Jul 6 2012 18:03 utc | 5

Slutthrob, you are right. The parallel between the NAZI invaders in Soviet Russia and the Free Surreal Army is striking.

Posted by: m_s | Jul 6 2012 19:01 utc | 6

I am much less sanguine than b about the success of Syria's security apparatus. The task that they face is almost impossible so long as the surrounding states allow NATO/Terrorist bases to feed men and munitions into the country. What NATO wants is chaos, what Assad wants is order and calm. With each passing month of attacks and upheaval the government's grip on the silent majority will loosen.

On the other hand NATO and its reactionary allies are playing a very dangerous game, it is difficult to see what advantage there is for any of those facilitating attacks on Syria, except that, by doing so, they ingratiate themselves with the rulers of the US Empire and their euro-puppets.
In the meantime it is becoming increasingly clear, throughout the Arab world and beyond, that the monarchists are hand in glove not only with Anglo-America but with their military colony "Israel."
In the past three decades the Saudi regime and the Gulf emirs have assisted the United States in wars and other campaigns which have killed millions of Iranians, Iraqis, Lebanese, Palestinians, Yemeni, Libyans and Algerians.
The price that they will pay for these crimes, against their own, muslim and (largely) Arab people can only be imagined.

Posted by: bevin | Jul 6 2012 19:03 utc | 7

Bevin, I do not think Assad needs calm. A terrorist threat is good for power.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 6 2012 19:13 utc | 8

Since there is definitely an invasion of the country going on, sponsored by foreigners, and some very vicious elements indeed; it seems that most people would close ranks with the government. But this is up to the Syrians themselves to decide.

Posted by: Copeland | Jul 6 2012 20:06 utc | 9

now let's talk about real issues

The loss of Syria as a transit country has pushed Turkish transporters to seek alternative routes. One of them is using Syrian intermediaries.
Serdar Yilmaz Sarac, the secretary-general of the Antakya Chamber of Commerce and Industry, told SES Türkiye that transporters have started to use their Syrian counterparts to carry their goods to designated Middle Eastern markets.
"The Cilvegozlu border gate [on the Turkey-Syria border] is closed. However, there is a 2km buffer zone. Our transporters carry the load to the gate and they switch the goods to a Syrian truck," Sarac explained.
However, Syrian transporters take a high commission which cuts into Turkish transporters' profit margin. Sarac said this process is unsustainable as truckers struggle to pay back loans.
Hatay, the Turkish border province, harbours the country’s second biggest transportation fleet with more than 10,000 trucks. Sarac said companies are trying to focus more on European markets, even if it stands to be less profitable.
To get around Syria, last month the Turkish Ministry of Economy started running ships that carry trucks -- so called Roll-on/Roll-off or Ro-Ro shipments -- from the southeastern Turkish port city of Mersin to Port Said in Egypt.
Currently, there are two shipments a week, but interest from transporters has not been strong. According to data from the Mersin Port Authority, Ro-Ro shipments are not operating at full capacity. Only around 25 trucks are carried per shipment.
Adnan Ersoy Ulubas, co-ordinating deputy president of the Mediterranean Exporters Association of Turkey, says Ro-Ro shipments will become more effective in the coming months.
Meanwhile, the Turkish Customs and Trade Ministry is working on a scheme to provide incentives to each truck carried by Ro-Ro shipments.
But Sarac says that the details of the incentives need to be revealed as soon as possible because Ro-Ro shipments cost transporters $4,000 per truck -- a price few can afford.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 6 2012 20:46 utc | 10

@8, and a leader who remains calm in the face of a terrorist threat deserves power.

Posted by: ruralito | Jul 6 2012 21:37 utc | 11

The Australian ABC (Australian Government funded broadcaster) called the defection of the Syrian general yesterday "Good news" in its morning radio news (yes news not comment) today. So much for its lack of bias in reporting!

Posted by: Pseud | Jul 6 2012 23:54 utc | 12

Swiss freeze arms exports to U.A.E.

...The decision comes in the wake of grenades allegedly found in Syria that originally constituted part of a munitions shipment by the state-owned Swiss arms manufacturer Ruag to the United Arab Emirates....

..Swiss authorities say the grenade shown in the picture was part of a shipment by the state-owned Ruag arms manufacturing company to the United Arab Emirates in 2003. As a condition of sale, a senior U.A.E. official signed a declaration not to re-export any of the 225,160 Ruag manufactured grenades.

Looks like atleast one european country is still playing by international norms.
Let's hear it for the swiss - Hoorah!

Posted by: KenM | Jul 7 2012 6:15 utc | 13

The reason the US and her tag-alongs are pushing their failed policies in Syria with such vigour now than ever is because they've invested so much in it and can't afford to let it go that easily..Something's gotta give. Either they accept their humiliating defeat or topple Assad(very unlikely).

One thing's clear though, when Russia and China decide not to play ball, all bets are off. One should also to look at things from Russia/China point of view. They've calculated that what the West(US and tag-alongs) is doing to Syria today could be applied to them tomorrow with the same dubious "international" institutions and "activist groups". The US is already looking at fomenting unrest in China's Xingiang region with the goal of internal destabilization - dito Tibet. What if tomorrow there's a friends of Tibet or friends of Xingiang or in Russia's case, friends of Chechnya or Dagastan?

As for Turkey, the least said about them, the better..Russia knows Turkey's been supporting Chechen rebels and causing havoc in the Caucasus..Chechen leaders find refuge in Turkey, just like Syrian fsa find refuge in Turkey.But the Russians have decided to deal with things "diplomatically" with Turkey. This could change. I really hope Erdogan knows the limit to his stupidity. He may not like what's coming his way.

Posted by: Zico | Jul 7 2012 6:35 utc | 14

The "West" is self-destructing - sanctions on Iran necessitate good relations/secure oil delivery of Saudi Arabia and Quatar to China, India and Russia ...

Qatar seeks $5bn investment in China's capital market

Saudi Arabia And China Team Up To Build A Gigantic New Oil Refinery - Is This The Beginning Of The End For The Petrodollar?

Role of Saudi Arabia in Supporting West's Oil Sanctions Policy against Iran

Posted by: somebody | Jul 7 2012 7:34 utc | 15

shame on the UN orchestrated new Libya:

imagine what a new syria would be like!

Posted by: brian | Jul 7 2012 7:54 utc | 16

more on the West is self-destructing

U.S. and Iranian Strategic Competition: The Impact of China and Russia

"Leaders in Moscow and Beijing focus on the security and prosperity of their respective nations,
and pursue international relationships from that standpoint. At the present, external pressure from
the US and its allies is not yet significant enough to make either China or Russia give up all ties
to Iran, and they manipulate such ties to Iran as a bargaining chip in dealing with the US,
European, and the Arab Gulf states. If the US is to be more successful in isolating Iran, it will
need to convince both countries that Iran poses a greater threat to their interests than they now
perceive, seek the help of the Arab Gulf states and other powers to influence China and Russia,
and develop a more powerful mix of incentives and penalties to encourage Chinese and Russian

Posted by: somebody | Jul 7 2012 10:15 utc | 17

"Soldiers and police officers must not abandon their own judgement, even if it means they sometimes have to disobey the ill conceived or mad orders of their political commanders." -- Sun Tsu

Posted by: brian | Jul 7 2012 10:48 utc | 18

Syria's crisis is leading us to unlikely bedfellows

Think about it. Ten years ago, in the wake of the destruction of the Twin Towers, we invaded Afghanistan to eliminate al-Qaeda. Now the world’s most notorious terror organisation wants to join a new “coalition of the willing” in Syria (not just al-Qaeda: yesterday the Muslim group Hizb ut-Tahrir staged a march through west London in support of their Syrian brothers and the establishment of the Khilafah state).

This may be the most profound turnaround in global politics since the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact of 1939 converted Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany from bitter enemies into allies – and it is important to understand that the affinity of interests between al-Qaeda and the West extends far beyond Syria. Britain, the United States and al-Qaeda also have a deep, structural hostility to President Assad’s biggest sponsor, Iran.

Posted by: Antifo | Jul 7 2012 11:55 utc | 19

@ Antifo

Just got a link to a 2007 piece by Seymour Hersh called "The Redirection" which predicts the US working with the Jihadists-Muslim Brotherhood against Iran-Syria-Hezbollah, its explosive stuff. Looks like the policy was made by Neo-Cons Elliott Abrams, Zalmay Khalilzad, and Prince Bandar bin Sultan.

Remember Hersh wrote this back in '07.

To undermine Iran, which is predominantly Shiite, the Bush Administration has decided, in effect, to reconfigure its priorities in the Middle East. In Lebanon, the Administration has coöperated with Saudi Arabia’s government, which is Sunni, in clandestine operations that are intended to weaken Hezbollah, the Shiite organization that is backed by Iran. The U.S. has also taken part in clandestine operations aimed at Iran and its ally Syria. A by-product of these activities has been the bolstering of Sunni extremist groups that espouse a militant vision of Islam.
Some of the core tactics of the redirection are not public, however. The clandestine operations have been kept secret, in some cases, by leaving the execution or the funding to the Saudis, or by finding other ways to work around the normal congressional appropriations process, current and former officials close to the Administration said.
The Saudis have considerable financial means, and have deep relations with the Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafis”—Sunni extremists who view Shiites as apostates. “The last time Iran was a threat, the Saudis were able to mobilize the worst kinds of Islamic radicals. Once you get them out of the box, you can’t put them back.”
This time, the U.S. government consultant told me, Bandar and other Saudis have assured the White House that “they will keep a very close eye on the religious fundamentalists. Their message to us was ‘We’ve created this movement, and we can control it.’ It’s not that we don’t want the Salafis to throw bombs; it’s who they throw them at—Hezbollah, Moqtada al-Sadr, Iran, and at the Syrians.


Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Jul 7 2012 13:09 utc | 20

>>>shame on the UN orchestrated new Libya:

imagine what a new syria would be like!>>>

Libya is having its first elections in 50 years today. Syria, although it was having elections during the last 50 years, it was not free to elect a majority party other than the Baath socialist party. Also after 50 years, the state of emergency law that had suspended some constitutional freedoms was ended in April 2011. But now things should be much better in Syria.

Posted by: www | Jul 7 2012 14:13 utc | 21

>>> Looks like atleast one european country is still playing by international norms.
Let's hear it for the swiss - Hoorah! >>>

Not so fast with the flowers, Ken, it's been only 4 or 5 weeks that Switzerland unjustly booted out the Syrian ambassador, supposedly for the Syrian Government's massacre at Houla. Since it's still unproven who committed it, Switzerland probably did it to kiss American or Israeli ass.

Posted by: www | Jul 7 2012 14:36 utc | 22

>>> Role of Saudi Arabia in Supporting West's Oil Sanctions Policy against Iran >>>

Somebody, Saudia is doing it mostly to support Saudia; it needs the extra cash from the extra oil because it has lots of committments to meet with the promises it made to its restless people, $140 billion in in social goodies.

Posted by: www | Jul 7 2012 14:44 utc | 23

Never in modern history have such evil twits of civilian chickenhawk cadres controlled such lethality and communication facilities of brainwashing their citizens in approving policies of idiocy exposed as such by recent history,and now they double down in the face of American opinion.
Freakin amazing,and an expose of the power of the Zionists who feed off our nation like piranhas,and alCIAda is their boytoy of malignant divide and conquer.
Boycott is our only hope in combating these monsters to whom mammon is everything.

Posted by: dahoit | Jul 7 2012 16:12 utc | 24

Posted by: bevin | Jul 6, 2012 3:03:27 PM | 7

Good comment. My only quibble is that you are over-emphasizing the middle man.

The regional players and the people doing the killing are not acting independently--hoping to ingratiate themselves to the west if their plans succeed--they are acting under direction of the west. Plus, this would never succeed without the big boys agreeing to it.

Posted by: Walter Wit Man | Jul 7 2012 17:15 utc | 25

"Bevin, I do not think Assad needs calm. A terrorist threat is good for power.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 6, 2012 3:13:15 PM | 8"

Wrong. Assad needs calm right now. He needs to keep his society together since they are facing a very strong and ruthless foe. Syria being cohesive is what has protected it this long and made it a hard nut to crack.

Planned chaos, as we are experiencing on a smaller scale in the U.S. with the fake terror attacks and fearmongering, only works in places where the government has complete control and the next biggest guy on the street can easily be dealt with. What internal or external threat does the U.S. face? Do you really think the government is existentially concerned with the "sovereign man" movement, for instance, or environmental terrorism?

How many police officers got injured from Occupy protests last year? I think one or two heroes may have gotten scratches on their faces from scuffling with women protesters or something . . . and in return they dealt out massive violence and massive false arrests and of course now the police are getting half million dollar battle tanks to crush the skulls of the slaves in the future.

Anyhoo . . . the U.S. faces no real threat. And Assad faced no real internal threat. It's ridiculous to think peaceful Syria protesters went from waving signs one day to shooting RPGs and making sophisticated media-supported terror attacks the next day so that they had killed THOUSANDS of police and army within the year. Obviously this was the work of strong external foes. If the U.S. faced this threat it would have reacted 10 times more brutally than Syria did.

So no government stokes the flames of chaos when a stronger external foe is attacking. Syria and Assad need peace. They need the terror to stop. Terrorism like this seems to be really effective. It's frightening. Look how brutal these terrorists are. The government needs the ethnic and religious cleansing to stop. They need to stop the propaganda. The U.S. has already threatened to hijack the airwaves and we have already seen terrorism beamed into Syria via calls to assassinate Allawite women and children. This stuff is extremely destabilizing which is why it is a favored tactic to attack a country.

So far it seems to be getting worse and worse for Syria and the government. I see this ending like in Libya. Total war. Terrorism. And chaos.

Thanks to the U.S. and the west (including Israel!).

Posted by: Walter Wit Man | Jul 7 2012 17:30 utc | 26

Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Jul 7, 2012 9:09:45 AM | 20

Great catch finding Seymour Hersh's column. I actually was thinking about Seymour Hersh's reporting the other day when I was called a "dingbat" for thinking the *CIA* was involved in Syrian affairs. Even back then they reported hundreds of millions of dollars going into secret operations.

Does www Debs is Dead and gang want to tell me none of this money ended up influencing events in Syria?

Plus, since then Obama has gone on to expand the secret wars way beyond what Bush ever did. The legal justification and the tactics used in the Global War on Terror (even though the term is sort of dropped) are expanded. And who knows what's done in secret.

Then Obama signs what some say is a secret order for war against Iran:

I think it's crazy NOT to suspect U.S. involvement in Syria and the region.

Posted by: Walter Wit Man | Jul 7 2012 17:46 utc | 27

Of course, the US have their hands in (democracy-) protest movements allaround the world, from Syria, China and Russia to South-America and Africa.

Posted by: Alexander | Jul 7 2012 17:54 utc | 28

Look Walter Wit Man, the technique of staying in power by fighting exterior enemies is as old as the French revolution.

When people feel they have to unite against outside power, nobody challenges your authority.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 7 2012 18:32 utc | 29

Kofi Annan: “Sur la Syrie, à l’évidence, nous n’avons pas réussi”

It would be good to have a complete translation of that interview.

It's being cited everywhere, but everyone cites only the statements he likes ...

Posted by: Antifo | Jul 7 2012 18:36 utc | 30

He is saying

a) Iran should be part of the solution
b) expects the "friends" of Syria to get the opposition to follow the Annan plan they suscribed to in Geneva
e) explains that Russia and China felt duped by what happened in Libya and will not support anything like that ever again
f) says that the ceasefire did hold for one day and does not understand why that was possible for one day but not longer
g) explains that all players either work together or lose together

Posted by: somebody | Jul 7 2012 19:03 utc | 31


Turkey to hold off on missile-defense choice

ANKARA - Hürriyet Daily News
Following the downing of a Turkish jet by Syria, Turkey’s top decision making body on arms procurement is likely to delay a decision on its much awaited choice for a new missile-defense system

Posted by: somebody | Jul 7 2012 19:50 utc | 32

Antifo, you can get a complete translation but there is nothing worthwhile in most of the Q&A between Le Monde and Annan. There was one answer by Annan that had some meat on it that was encapsulated by "somebody" in #31 above:

Annan: "Iran is a main player; it should be part of the solution. It is influential and we can't ignore it.(the Western countries had refused to let Iran participate in the action group that convened on June 30th.)

But what impresses on me most is how so much is said about Russia, while Iran is hardly mentioned, and how mostly few things are mentioned about other countries that are sending arms and money and that are influencing facts on the ground. All these countries are pretending they want a peaceful solution but there are individual and collective efforts being made that undermine the very intent of the Security Council resolutions. Keeping the focus on Russia is irritating the Russians."

Posted by: www | Jul 7 2012 19:56 utc | 33

Flood in Baath Land, 2003, by Omar Amiralay (1944 - 2011) about Syria.

On You Tube, in one piece, with acceptable subtitles in Eng.

Has a lot of content about education in Syria, which is why I watched it.

Documentary, slanted. He was arrested for it. see here, one article:

On a day or ordinary violence by Amiralay is also on Youtube, in parts, in french. part 1:

The man with the Golden soles which is about Rafik Hariri is also on YouTube, but w out subtitles as far as I saw. (goog.)

Amiralay was one of the well know signatories of the “Statement of the 99”, in 2000,

- that was my dissidents in Syria post for the day.

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 7 2012 20:59 utc | 34

Famed Syrian cartoonist Ali Ferzat had both hands broken lsast year:

Posted by: www | Jul 7 2012 21:26 utc | 35

I would be interested to see the dingbat go back to the thread and extract the sentence where he alleges I claimed that the CIA wasn't involved in Syria.

If the wit man dingbat interpreted my comments on his unsustainable claims about Assange being a CIA agent as actually saying "The CIA has no involvement in Syria" all he has succeeded in doing is demonstrating to all that he is a dingbat one incapable of objectively gathering and assessing information in order to arrive at the opinion which most closely matches the facts.

He would also be wise to go further back and dig out the post I made in the days after the Turkish plane was shot down pointing out it was only a short time after a Syrian Air Force pilot's defection to Turkey with a plane and that in all likelihood codes had been grabbed to test Syrian air defenses. No one imagines Turkey did that unaided by fukasi. sorry "The CIA" (boom bom boom! bogey man theme plays in the background) completely ignoring that Bush's boys neutered the CIA and handed most of the dirty tricks stuff over to the pentagon back in the noughties.
From here I have no idea which arms of intellegence amerika has active in Syria, but if the witless one had been around here more than five minutes he would know I have posted many pieces on amerikan intelligence's involvement in every ME nation including Syria.

Sorry to bring this up in this thread but whoever the witman dick is he has dragged what should have been a dead debate over here and compounded this by lying about what was posted in the other thread. Maybe what we can deduce from all this is that one of the primary indicators of a dingbat is someone who has an innate ability to sort through diverse data and only remember the bits which suit his/her previously held idiocies, & if there is nothing of that kind available the dingbat simply makes it up.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Jul 8 2012 0:11 utc | 36


Since you want to wallow in the gutter here's the first comment you posted on this subject:

"What is it with dingbats like the latest 'cia is everywhere' turkey . . . "

The "dingbat" "turkey" (and now "dick") is me, and that's you right off the bat making fun of the idea that the *CIA* is in Syria. It's quite ironic that you claim I misinterpreted your previous statements when your very first statement, quoted above, was an obvious exaggeration of what I said (I never said the CIA was "everywhere"--and by *CIA* I meant intelligence services more broadly).

You are still making fun of the idea that Assange is a perp so you are not interested in an objective look at the facts . . . you're just coming with all this heat defending Wikileaks before you even see the purported evidence.

Then throw in your classic disruptive (and dickish) behavior and I see all the signs of someone who is purposely muddying the water. You certainly aren't as smart as you think you are.

Posted by: Walter Wit Man | Jul 8 2012 0:50 utc | 37

"Turkish officers trained us on using weapons in the Turkish Camps" Terrorist Mustafa Sharouf admits. #Syria #Turkey

Linda Juniper @LindaJuniper
Breaking: Terrorists threw a bomb close to a car wash in ElSaliheen #Aleppo, the explosion killed 1 & injured 19. #Syria
Linda Juniper @LindaJuniper
Re bombing in ElSaliheen, other reports claim the source of the explosion was a booby-trapped bus. #Aleppo
Linda Juniper @LindaJuniper
The terrorist group that was working on bombing the railway between Ory & Edawan was killed. #Idleb #Syria

Terrorists in a pickup truck & 2 motorcycles shot at a security checkpoint at ElSakhour roundabout, 1 terrorist was injured. #Aleppo #

10 traffic policeman, who work on #Idleb - #Latakia road, were kidnapped.
The authorities faced a terrorist group in Sheikh Maskin, arrested & killed many of them, & confiscated their weapons. #Daraa
Among the arrested in Sheik Maskin is notorious terrorist "Fadhil Aoudh ElHusain" who had killed & kidnapped many innocents. #Daraa

The Security arrested the terrorists responsible for the explosion close to the Military Security Dep. this evening in Idleb

Barza, Qabon, Bebela, Juber, Yabrod, ElKaswa were forced to close shops by #FSA.
Distributed leaflets ordered 3days strike. Damascus

Security foiled a booby-trapped car bombing by shooting the driver before arriving to his target on ElSina'ah roundabout. #DeirEzzor

Eight terrorists killed in Mo'arat ElNoman, three of them are Libyans. #Idleb

Eight terrorists killed when the explosive device they were planting close to Cinema ElZahra'a exploded. #DeirEzzo

Authorities pursued a terrorist group in Kafer Nubel, killed a foreign terrorist & arrested 2, one of them is Ahmad Zatour. #Idleb

The authorities faced a terrorist group in Ezaz, destroyed 6 cars with heavey & light weapons on & killed many of them

Posted by: brian | Jul 8 2012 0:52 utc | 38

Anybody catch the wild Jordan talk show? Syria on the agenda.

Posted by: JL | Jul 8 2012 1:07 utc | 39

More on Russia siding with Syria (against the zionists and its American puppet):

Posted by: JL | Jul 8 2012 1:35 utc | 40

@ witless
So as I thought, you cannot support your contention that I argued that the CIA wasn't present in Syria. If you want to know why I called you names, it is because conspiracists who do little other here than make outrageous and insupportable claims that only serve to make rational and supportable claims less credible to ordinary humans, have taken it upon themselves to call Julian Assange a traitor and cia puppet. Just as you did.
You have no evidence to support this. I cannot prove he is not since as I said in my posts proving a negative is impossible.

My support for Assange doesn't stem from any silly binary belief that he is all good or perfect, in fact Assange has demonstrated he suffers from a range of human characteristics many of which don't make him a hero of the godlike perfection type the simple minded like to imagine exists. My continued support for the man stems from people I know and trust, who know and trust him and who are appalled at the way idiots have depicted him without a skerrick of evidence apart from "there was not enough about israel", or "of course he is a cia plant" etc.

The bloke has demonstrated courage which you mob wouldn't ever be called on to find, while his life falls apart around him. It is bad enough when the world's rapists and murderers denigrate him and/or WL with lies; but when fuck-wits who know nothing about the man or his circumstances, let their prejudices and poorly formed notions of what the world is deceive themselves into doing the same, they should expect to get sledged.

You allege a bloke you don't have any idea about is a 'cia agent' because your flawed logic informs you that it is possible he isn't what you want him to be then whinge when others call you out for not being able to support your slanders.
Go away and learn how to analyse the information others sweat blood to get to you.

I really enjoy your egocentricity. You took all the stuff I posted in the other thread and claimed it was aimed at you even though I had no idea of your existence until you screamed "bullshit" in a mob of repetitive spam posts at anyone who argued Assange wasn't a cia plant.

Plus in a classic demonstration of your ability to misunderstand the simplest contentions you ignored my original post which said:

"Undoubtedly the leakers of these docs are no friends of the Assad administration, nor Julian Assange but that can never be a reason for wikileaks not to publish. If the documents are genuine the only thing a decision not to publish could have done would have been to show wikileaks to have bias and made it very easy for mainstream media to allege that everything else WL has published is therefore suspect. If wikileaks had refused to publish the documents would have been given to others, they would have leaked anyway but WL would have been shown to be partial."

There I was conceding the posts could have been posted by foreign intelligence services, but that the issue for WL wouldn't have been what is the motive for dumping these? It would have been "Are they genuine?"

The docs were gonna come out anyway, if assange's decision to put em up on WL was influenced by his desire to get himself outta amerika's sights, who can blame him?

Oh that means he isn't a 'hero' that he is a human being if a particularly brave one. Do you really think Assange didn't know he was gonna be declared public enemy number one after he put out the cables? Of course he did, of course the idea scared him but he did it anyway. Now that he isn't demonstrating some silly Hollywood ideal of 'grace under fire' the types of people who see things in simplistic terms have turned on him. All they are doing is revealing their own feet of clay.

Now before beginning some assertion that posting these docs makes Assange a cia agent think about what that means for any reporter who gets info from all sorts of sources. Are they all kgb, cia agents, policemen simultaneously with being child molesters, career crims, pr flacks n drug dealers? Those are just a few of the sources reporters use.

The name calling and shouting began with your spams just as the discussion has been dragged over here by you.
You accuse me of muddying the waters but it was you who began this same garbage in this thread with your lie that I said the CIA were not in Syria.
As I said before - learn how to comprehend information before you jump to half-assed, prejudice-driven conclusions.

But go for it walter mitty - the forum is open for you to continue your misrepresentations, I won't continue this discussion here because it is annoying and pitiful to those who couldn't give a flying fuck about who said what to whom when, and who want to ponder on Syria.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Jul 8 2012 3:38 utc | 41


You got offended that I questioned the veracity of the ongoing Wikileaks document dump, the "Syria Files." I expressed my skepticism by writing, "bullshit, bullshit, bullshit." But I fail to see how that is spamming.

I have logical reasons for this skepticism. We went through it in a bit in that thread. For instance, many of the Wikileaks leaks help the U.S./West more than hurt them. And it's a huge opportunity for the U.S. (be it the *CIA* or whoever) to write a story about pretty much anything it wants under cover of the 'cables.'

You took my skepticism of a public figure, Assange, personally, and then attacked me personally by calling me "dick", "dingbat", "turkey", and "witless." Unless now you are denying that the quote above was directed at me? But your comment came after my comments in the thread and it sure seems like it was directed to me. And it's consistent with the word choice you've used toward me since then.

Plus, this is not "slander" of Assange when I'm simply expressing skepticism. I am skeptical of all sources--especially when they dump a bunch of documents that serve the most powerful at a crucial time. I once admired what Assange was doing but now I suspect I was duped. My suspicions are based on circumstantial evidence and the logic I've applied to the facts I know. I've looked at the revelations from the cables and other leaks with these suspicions in mind. I don't have direct evidence or a confession but that's a ridiculous standard to meet for this type of analysis.

The cumulative facts around Assange are suspicious and it's not crazy to ask questions about him and Wikileaks. You, Debs, are trying to shut down conversation on it by calling names and otherwise being a bully.

Also, Debs, when you say it's paranoid to suspect western intelligence involvement (the *CIA*) in the Wikileaks document dumps you're saying that western intelligence is not involved in Syrian affairs. Don't you see how one can come to this conclusion based on your position? You think it's crazy to suspect western intelligence being involved in faking documents regarding Syria. If you suspect western intelligence of being involved in Syrian affairs then it's NOT CRAZY to suspect that they also doctored the "Syria File" documents.

So you see how I came to the conclusion that you don't believe western intelligence is involved in Syrian affairs? To the extent you say you suspect *CIA* involvement in Syrian affairs too . . . well, thanks for proving my point it's not crazy to suspect this. You'd be an idiot not too. Except, that's the position you take when it come to the Wikileaks document. D'oh!

Posted by: Walter Wit Man | Jul 8 2012 6:00 utc | 42

Syria 24 English
5 hours ago
#Syria #RealSyria - Ju’ara: Manaf Tlas did NOT defect and what happened was a media trap only

Breaking News

Posted by: brian | Jul 8 2012 6:17 utc | 43

the last time we fought Iran

"By 1987 America was engaged in a bloody naval and air war against Iran, undeclared of course, while Iraq fought a brutal land war. The lessons of our first war with Iran should be carefully considered before we embark hastily on a second.

The Iran-Iraq War was devastating—the largest and longest conventional interstate war since the Korean conflict ended in 1953. A half-million lives were lost, perhaps another million were injured and the economic cost was over a trillion dollars. One index of the scale of the tragedy is that the battle lines at the end of the war were almost exactly where they were at the beginning of hostilities. It was also the only war in modern times in which chemical weapons were used on a massive scale. Iraq gassed the Iranian army repeatedly and then turned the weapons on its own Kurdish population. No comparable use of weapons of mass destruction had occurred since 1918.

The 1980-1988 war led, in addition, to other disasters: the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990, the liberation of Kuwait a year later and the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003. The bloody U.S. war just ended in Iraq last year by President Obama was the finale in this march of folly. The seeds of multigenerational tragedy were planted in the Iran-Iraq war. We will live with its consequences for decades, perhaps longer."

Posted by: somebody | Jul 8 2012 6:39 utc | 44

turkish plane incident : what really happened:

'What NATO would do to get detailled information on Syria’s air defense, was explained in an aviation forum by a former German F4 pilot:

You take a reconnaissance jet and fly slowly closer and closer to the assumed location of the enemy position, watch the activation of the enemy’s search radar and when the enemy’s target radar is activated you turn away. So know you kno how the enemy’s air defense system looks on your own warning systems, for example the newly delivered Russian one. That information can be used then to develop new counter-measures and tactics. Of course for such an avtivity is used only a single reconnaissance jet and not a squadron, because when the targetted country protests one wants to claim that the trespassing happened accidentally.

For NATO’s gathering of information about the Syrian air defense to detail it’s attack plans against Syria Erdogan offered NATO a supersonic Turkish RF-4E Phantom II jet capable of flying with a speed of more than Mach II. The reconnaissance mission was flown on Friday, 22nd of June 2012. On the first round the Turkish Phantom trespassed a corner of Syrian airspace on the sea flying low as 60 meters for five minutes. On the second round it flew off Syrian airspace until it was in a position 13 nautical miles off the Syrian coast and then flew in a height of less than 100 meters and with a speed of 800 kph directly towards the Syrian coastline.

Because the Turkish Phantom was flying low the Syrian air defence didn’t see it on radar and didn’t activate any search or target radar. Instead of the expected behaviour of activating a search and target radar the Phantom triggered an optically working a Syrian air defense system when it was less than two kilometers off the Syrian coast. That system autimaticially started firing artillery rounds with a maximum reach of 2.5 killometers on the Phantom and hit it. The Turkish phantom managed to fly back some seconds onto the sea before it crashed about 10 kilometers off the Syian coastline due to the damage done to it by the Syrian air defense artillery. To see what happened to it’s Phantom on it’s reconnaisance mission off the Syrian coast Turkey sent the CASA military plane – which was already in the air to coordinate the Phantom’s mock attack on Syria – to the site of the assumed crash. Because the Turkey CASA plane also flew to the Syrian coast protected by the automatically working Syrian air defense artillery system it was also targeted but as it flew high and was seen in time it managed to turn away from the coast before being hit. After communication with Syria the Syrian air defense system was deactivated and both, Syria and Turkey, searched for the Phantom, it’s pilot and it’s navigation officer off the Syrian coast.

Posted by: brian | Jul 8 2012 7:48 utc | 45

@ brian, post # 45

The account of the German pilot is interesting. However, he cannot explain all aspects of the incident. The pilots did not eject. Why?

As an aside, Turkish Staff has published some photos of the wreckage. Note the intact jet engine. Perhaps, the possibility of heat seeking missiles can be dismissed. Note that the front panels survived quite clean, free from signs of melting. Note the canvas pilot cap, in new condition.

Posted by: e1542675 | Jul 8 2012 8:43 utc | 46

Syrian naval war-drills..

Again, does NATO really need a war at this point?

Posted by: Zico | Jul 8 2012 8:57 utc | 47

>>> The seeds of multigenerational tragedy were planted in the Iran-Iraq war. >>>

Planted by the US, as was the initial Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. You mentioned Saddam's gassing of Iranians and of his Kurds; those chemicals had been supplied to him by the US. These are most probably what the US were looking for when it kept insisting that Saddam had WMDs; from the History News Network about the US supplying the biological agents including anthrax, bubonic plague and many others to Saddam:

"Last year, Senator Robert Byrd discussed the Reagan Administration's transfer to Iraq of biological agents including anthrax, bubonic plague and many others, and placed supporting documentation in the Congressional Record. He recalled an exchange he had at a hearing before the Senate Armed Services Committee on September 19, 2002:

I asked Secretary Rumsfeld:

Mr. Secretary, to your knowledge, did the United States help Iraq to acquire the building blocks of biological weapons during the Iran-Iraq war? Are we in fact now facing the possibility of reaping what we have sewn?

The Secretary quickly and flatly denied any knowledge but said he would review Pentagon records. I suggest that the administration speed up that review. My concerns and the concerns of others have grown. A letter from the Centers For Disease Control and Prevention, which I shall submit for the Record, shows very clearly that the United States is, in fact, preparing to reap what it has sewn. A letter written in 1995 by former CDC Director David Satcher to former Senator Donald W. Riegle, Jr., points out that the U.S. Government provided nearly two dozen viral and bacterial samples to Iraqi scientists in 1985--samples that included the plague, botulism, and anthrax, among other deadly diseases. According to the letter from Dr. Satcher to former Senator Donald Riegle, many of the materials were hand carried by an Iraqi scientist to Iraq after he had spent 3 months training in the CDC laboratory. The Armed Services Committee is requesting information from the Departments of Commerce, State, and Defense on the history of the United States, providing the building blocks for weapons of mass destruction to Iraq. I recommend that the Department of Health and Human Services also be included in that request. The American people do not need obfuscation and denial. The American people need the truth. The American people need to know whether the United States is in large part responsible for the very Iraqi weapons of mass destruction which the administration now seeks to destroy. We may very well have created the monster that we seek to eliminate. The Senate deserves to know the whole story. The American people deserve answers to the whole story."

Posted by: www | Jul 8 2012 9:47 utc | 48

interesting fact in Wiki about chemicals weapons and which 8 countries are not part of the chemicals weapons convention:

"Almost all countries in the world have joined the Chemical Weapons Convention. Currently 188 of the 196 states recognized by the United Nations are party to the CWC. Of the eight states that are not, two have signed but not yet ratified the treaty (Burma and Israel) and six states have not signed the treaty (Angola, North Korea, Egypt, Somalia, South Sudan and Syria).

Posted by: www | Jul 8 2012 9:57 utc | 49

"You have no evidence to support this. I cannot prove he is not since as I said in my posts proving a negative is impossible."

I have not read every post on this subject, buat as far as I can tell no one is asking you to "prove a negative" - that appears to be just a strawman argument you made up all by yourself bec ause you refuse to address the majoriity of the points raised regarding Assange

Me? I much prefer you to "prove a positive" -

What's your proof that Assange and his info are genuine?

What's your proof that the person supplying him with this info is a credible whistleblower - it certainly is NOT Bradley Manning that supplied him with a lot of the latest dis-info dump - Manning 's been incarcerated for quite a while now.

IMO the default position should be that who ever is supplying the dis-info Assange is pimping is NOT credible, is in fact a NATO-Gov't actor of some sort - you can choose whatever 3-letter acronym you like, from whatever NATO/US Ally - Austraila for instance - since Assange was nabbed as a teenager for hacking-related offences in OZ and given a very light sentence -

Just like Adrain Lamo was - those two have that in common as well - both were nabbed as Teenagers - and many people suspecrt that that is when Lamo started to work for the US Gov't - so I see no reason NOT to suspect that that is when Assange too started to work with/for some Secret Service related Gov't agency

So just where the hell is Assange getting all of this dis-info?

"won't continue this discussion here because it is annoying and pitiful to those who couldn't give a flying fuck about who said what to whom when, and who want to ponder on Syria."

a Hit-&-Run job again Debs? - you seem to make a habit of that

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 8 2012 10:24 utc | 50

I can understand Israel, Burma, Egypt, Angola, South Sudan, Somalia and North Korea having tons of chemicals, but what's a nice country like Syria doing with chemicals?

Posted by: www | Jul 8 2012 10:25 utc | 51

Posted in another thread - but STILL unanswered and STILL highly relevant :

So just where the hell is Assange getting all of this dis-info?

None of you fan-bois seem to have thought about THAT part of the question, from what I can see - certainly to my knowlkedge none of you have satisfactorily addressed that so far in this (or ANY other ) thread

Do you people seriously really think that behind Assange is an Army of 'Hacker Heroes' busting into US Gov't servers and grabbing everything they can find?

Or maybe you geniuses think that some intrepid hacker has managed to tap into whatever transport method is used to move these cables about (electronic or otherwise)and have then managed to kick the crap out of the US Gov't State of the Art Encryption with a couple of souped-up laptops?

Or Maybe you cutting-edge brain-Sturmers think he has a whole line of willing 'whistleblowers/Snitches' inside the US Defence/Diplomatic establishment just queing up to hand him juicy bundles of classified material, dating right up to 2012?

Seriosuly I'd LOVE to hear how you guys think he gets his hands on this stuff, cos it really is really really really really really really really really really really really reallyreally really really really really really really really unlikely to be ANY of the above.

And as for the Syrian Gov't communications - I'm fairly sure they ain't using Gmail or Facebook or twitter to keep in touch with each other, so someone must be exploiting their comms network, which would most likely be encrypted - (Maybe they all have blackberry's? If so then how is it ending in Assange's hands? )

Military-grade encryption is fairly easy to obtain these days,

Soooooooo, unless you Fan-Bois are going to argue that the Syrian Gov't are not using ANY encryption at all ( and I doubt even Debs it THAT stupid) , then it really is VERY unlikely that anyone but a State Security Service is cracking Syrian Gov't encryption, and then feeding that stuff straight to little old boy-wonder Julian

SO how does he get it?

When he first hit the World Stage he initially claimed that he'd just been lucky and managed to snatch it all while running a TOR-Exit-Node of his own - that was obviously complete and utter balderdash (to try and put it somewhat politely) - yet to my knowledge few if any people bothered to question even that much.

And to this day I have seen few poeple wondering about that - certainly none of his Fan-bois could be bothered talking or even thinking about that part of it all.

The most straight-forward, LEAST complicated answer is that the US Gov't (or an Ally - OZ for instance) feeds it to him themsleves -

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 8 2012 10:34 utc | 52


Posted by: Alexander | Jul 8 2012 10:36 utc | 53

but what's a nice country like Syria doing with chemicals?

Well their neighbour to the immediate South-East IS loaded to the gills with that stuff - so why should the Syrians NOT have it?

With Neighbours like that the Syrians would actually be mad NOT to have Chem-Bio Weapons

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 8 2012 10:36 utc | 54


yeah - cos these are such inconsequential questions after all for a suppossed "Intrepid Champion of Truth"™ to have levelled at them - I know I know - always with the minute utterly unimportant deatils, eh? :-p

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 8 2012 10:41 utc | 55

"The defection by a Syrian pilot with his MiG-21 to Jordan was an opportunity for the west to test how far Russia has gone in arming Syria, and the quality of Syria’s air defenses. Meanwhile, the downing of a Turkish Phantom-4 by the Syrians, besides being a response to the defection of the Syrian pilot, was a test of Syria’s Russian-provided air defense system. It was also a Russian message to the Turks, and behind them NATO, about Russia’s insistence on confronting the plan to establish a missile defense shield and involve Turkey in this plan, by setting up missile radars on its territory. Iran’s concern with the presence of its advisors and some key military leaders on Syrian territory, as Tehran is determined to head off any encirclement of Iran via Turkey (a NATO member), is just as important as Russia’s determination to have a back-up plan with regard to the extension of Turkey’s regional influence, as the Syrian regime erodes.

The Great Powers and regional axes are waging a war of weapons and intelligence on Syrian soil and in the surrounding area as part of the competition over the region’s political geography."

Posted by: somebody | Jul 8 2012 10:47 utc | 56

I've said this many times and will say it again..Julian Assange is an unwitting/witting accomplice is a massive CIA disinformation campaign meant to sow discord and chaos all over the world. The guy fits the bill.

We're somehow meant to believe that Bradley Manning(bless him) managed to get his hands on all that data ALONE and passed it on to Assange to be published for all the world to see. For me, much of what Wikileaks publishes is nothing new under the sun.Most serious governments know that already.Are we to believe that the Russian government doesn't know what the US government thinks of them? Or any other country for that matter? Are we also the believe that if the US wanted Assange dead they wouldn't have got to him long time ago? I mean, it's not as if Assange is some superhuman or something, right??? He goes about holding press conferences and interview wide in the open that Osama could've imagined. And also, do we need Assange to tell us the US wars in the region have caused massive loss of human lives and that US marines are ruthless killers who laugh at their victims as they shoot them? This is public knowledge- dammit!!!

Assange's latest stunt is taking refuge in a South American embassy in London..How he managed to get there under the noses of UK's MI5/6 whatever is beyond a joke. This is coming at a time when the CIA is busily looking for any pretext to overthrow another South American government.They've already done it twice in a space of two years - Honduras and Paraguay??? Assange hiding in this South American country's embassy is a clear invitation of carnage in that country..I call BS!!!

Posted by: Zico | Jul 8 2012 11:38 utc | 57

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 8, 2012 6:34:40 AM | 52

this has been broached and discussed- Assange is obviously an intelligence asset. the msm has almost no credibility anymore, so theyset up a 'whistblower' to disseminate their garbage posing as a defiant renegade against tptb- when he is actually their own product.
move on please...

Posted by: JL | Jul 8 2012 11:38 utc | 58

Ch.. even if Assange were an XXX government asset, and Wikileaks publications were all concocted by 2048 Hollywood writers and 4096 historian consultants, however you want to read it, it still is informative information, if not exposing how the government works, then at least exposing how the governments wants us to think they work. It's still informative, though you would have to be quite daft not to see how you are better advised to interpret the information passed on by Wikileaks.

Posted by: Alexander | Jul 8 2012 12:05 utc | 59

Well yes ~JL - but to be honest it's quite amusing watching the All-Knowing and apparently immensely wise Debs run away every time any pertinent questions are asked about Assange's sources - questions the Fan-bois should have asked themsleves a looooooooooooong time ago, but didn't bother

It seerms that they'd much rather indulge themsleves in a little bit of worship at the Altar of St Julian - essentially I get the impression that the answer to the question of what lies at the root the Fanbois worship of Assange is merely a 'Belief' in his truthiness -

It basically seems to come down to a question of faith -

'Faith' and 'Belief' are generally associated with Religious fervour - so the Fanbois are merely followers of the new secular religion of Wiki-Truthiness.

Ironic that many of Pontiff Julianus' most ferverent followers are usually the first to sneer at the gullibility of others regarding their faith and beliefs, yet can't seem recognise their own gullibilty in the case of the Church of Julian

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 8 2012 12:13 utc | 60

"however you want to read it, it still is informative information, "

In what way?

How is it 'informative' if it's unreliable?

due to the fact that no one but Julian seems to know anything about how it's collected, and more importantly by whom, to describe it as anything but 'unreliable' seems seriously misguided.

'Unreliable' info is just 'unreliable' not 'informative'

Unless by 'informative' you mean that by looking at what Assange is pimping and it's main themes, one might be able to decide which subjects and memes, being disseminated in the near future by the Western/Nato propaganda machine, are complete bullshit

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 8 2012 12:24 utc | 61

"Assange's latest stunt is taking refuge in a South American embassy in London"

yeah real genius that,

of course he's probably under orders from his handlers to cause as many problems as possible for the Ecuadorian Gov't

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 8 2012 12:27 utc | 62

A lot of the diplomatic cables were apparently embarressing, and when people in the system try to undercut the leaks importance, it can very well be an indication of their authenticity. I find it hard to believe an abundace of writers are producing these leaked material, without it leaking out that they are fabrications. Because that would be a massive operation.

Posted by: Alexander | Jul 8 2012 12:34 utc | 63

As for the helicopter gunning down civilians video, it's hard to see how that fits in the manufactured material-by the US regime released by Pentagon front Wiki.. I just don't see it. And as for Assange, he was just the unlucky symbolic target for the vengeful US, who genuinely goes quite some way in their fight against freedom of expression. Nothing special about Assange, except he was part of the crew who set up a drop-box and distribution system for leaks. More curageous and productive than most. And I don't see his life being cushy, he genuinely has paid the price of his life being turned to crud by the US.

Posted by: Alexander | Jul 8 2012 13:02 utc | 64

As for the helicopter gunning down civilians video, it's hard to see how that fits in the manufactured material-by the US regime released by Pentagon front Wiki.

Alexander, helicopter gunning people is nothing new to the people in the region.Everybody in the ME know US and their allies are murderers - they don't need wikileaks to tell them that. They experience it on a daily basis.It was people in the West that didn't know what their soldiers were up to in Iraq..But they've been told their soldiers have to kill/murder Arabs because they hate them for their freedom.. Somehow, the people believe their government and believe it's justified to mow down Arabs who stand up to US demands. It's all part of the war on terra!!!

Don't get me wrong..But wikileaks is designed to capture weak minds..It's a disinformation campaign using half truths and whole lies..You believe what you want but it doesn't make wikileaks any better than hearings from the good ol Baghdad taxi driver who told the CIA about Saddam wmd. We simply have no way of proving the source of information being dished out by Assange other than what he says it's from "whistle blowers"....I'll blow my own whistle, thank you very much. I don't need anybody to tell me a particular government is good or bad..I can find out for myself by their actions.

Posted by: Zico | Jul 8 2012 14:10 utc | 65

the real amerika: 'U.S. Embassy security tried to destroy all its secret documents by shredding them, but the students, over months, patiently sewed the bits and pieces together and published them, exposing their nefarious tactics in books that U.S. Customs would not allow Americans to see. (Friends of mine had their copies seized when they returned from a reporting trip to Iran in that period.)'....seizing books? crushing dissent, concealing information...this is what the real amerika is and you wont see this in any hollywood movie.

Posted by: brian | Jul 8 2012 14:28 utc | 66

Former U.S. Foreign Minister James Baker criticizes Hillary Clinton's Syria Politics

"Everybody ... would have difficulty saying no, we’re not going to go for an election, particularly if you let Bashar run. Let him run. Make sure you have a lot of observers in there. Make sure they can’t fix the election. Why not try that?"

Clinton had no answer and did not reject the suggestion to let President Assad be reelected.

Posted by: Antifo | Jul 8 2012 14:40 utc | 67

"I think it's crazy NOT to suspect U.S. involvement in Syria and the region."

Just one of the simple truths written here.

The articulate and well written give and take between parties here, is a joy to read, regardless of position.

Posted by: ben | Jul 8 2012 14:51 utc | 68

'The Syrian army is defending itself with heavy machine guns, grenade launchers and Kalashnikovs, and conquered foot by foot the floor of the insurgents. Among themselves they call this city already “Stalingrad”.'

Posted by: brian | Jul 8 2012 15:29 utc | 69

wiki is a one hit wonder
ever since its debut *block buster* video, which is second hand stuff
it hasnt produced anything worth listening
the most *damning* stuff are mostly inconsequential gossips which
supposedly *embarras* the amerikkans, lol
im sure that'd teach the gringos to stop their pax amerikka pnac juggernaut, ;-)

after the formality of getting its *street cred* is dispensed with,
wiki got down to its real biz
viz, attacking the worlds *oppressive regimes*, represented by china
[dont take my word for it , read the wiki mission statement]
no wonder,
practically every accusation levelled at the *axis of evil* from amerikka,
there's a wiki leak to back it up
if u dont trust the pentagoon/state dept
surely u trust wiki ? ;-)

if u think wiki the whistleblower would give u deeper insight about
amerikkan skullduggery in tibet, afpak, xinjiang, me, sa etc
intel that u wouldnt get in moa, globalresearch, voltaire, landdestroyer etc
forget it, there's zero, nein, nada, zilch,

here's that mission statement again
[see that time endorstment ? ;-)
wiki's obcession is *oppressive regimes* represented by china
i'm sure time, or for that matter forbes, wsj , economists would nod their
approval in unision
does anybody think these establishment mouthpiece would lend their
platform to someone like jp, for example ?

if assange had vowed to bring down the evil empire,
i dont think these empire sycophants would want to touch him with a ten feet pole !!

is wiki an empire buster or enabler ?
read the wiki manisfesto
read the messiah's interview with the war street journal
about the *leaks*, ask just one question, *cui bono ?*
case closed

Posted by: denk | Jul 8 2012 16:35 utc | 70

>>>Among themselves they call this city already “Stalingrad”.>>>

"Stalingrad" with only a couple of neighborhoods destroyed? Aren't they getting carried away with themselves? Contrary to what was done to Stalingrad, it's the home team that's destroying Homs. It's more like a repeat of Hamma.

Posted by: www | Jul 8 2012 16:47 utc | 71

Hu Bris is on to something here; Global Research article also saying Assange is a CIA plant out to do a number on Assad by embarrasing him and his government with the e-mails to be released along the lines of those that revealed Assad's wife's extravagant shopping sprees.

Posted by: www | Jul 8 2012 17:09 utc | 72

@67 Jim Baker is a true diplomat. Nothing personal or paternalistic.

Posted by: dh | Jul 8 2012 17:13 utc | 73

"along the lines of those that revealed Assad's wife's extravagant shopping sprees."

I am SHOCKED! totally shocked, to finally discover the TRUTH™ about Assad's wife's shopping habits.

ALL my illusions have been shattered, torn limb form metaphorical limb, no less!

My view of the world will never be the same again!

Oh the humanity!!!

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 8 2012 17:21 utc | 74

Indeed Hu Bris. She goes to Paris to shop!!! Maybe she would be more acceptable in a burqa.

Posted by: dh | Jul 8 2012 17:45 utc | 75

It's almost cute. Compared to the other autocrat-wives of the middle east and arab peninsula it's not very extravagant at all, is it.

Posted by: Alexander | Jul 8 2012 17:47 utc | 76

"Assange is a CIA plant..."

This blog has become a kind of conspiracy-addled, libertarian boy's club. Just hilarious! Keep up the good work, b.

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 8 2012 17:55 utc | 77

German TV interview (in English) with Bashar Assad

Posted by: b | Jul 8 2012 18:12 utc | 78

>>>I think it's crazy NOT to suspect U.S. involvement in Syria and the region.>>>

In Syria and with Syria and with Israel's complicity.

Posted by: www | Jul 8 2012 18:22 utc | 79

Hey guys, relax, I wasn't being critical of Assad's wife or her shopping habits. It doesn't bother me what she buys. I wrote what they said about her. Lots of jealous wowmen don't like her but I think she looks great.

Posted by: www | Jul 8 2012 18:42 utc | 80

She does look great, that's not opinion, that's fact.

Posted by: Alexander | Jul 8 2012 18:46 utc | 81

It's a shame a hatchet job was downe own her image and the Vogue article abowut her retracted. Vogue had written:

"Asma al-Assad is glamorous, young, and very chic—the freshest and most magnetic of first ladies. Her style is not the couture-and-bling dazzle of Middle Eastern power but a deliberate lack of adornment. She’s a rare combination: a thin, long-limbed beauty with a trained analytic mind who dresses with cunning understatement. Paris Match calls her “the element of light in a country full of shadow zones.” She is the first lady of Syria."

Posted by: www | Jul 8 2012 19:04 utc | 82

@72, "...Hu Bris is onto something..." Fine. Does he have to crow so hard about it? He's not the only one on this site skeptical of Assange's "accomplishments".

Posted by: ruralito | Jul 8 2012 19:11 utc | 83

It's not crowing; he's the only one that has taken a 2X4 to hit unbelievers between the eyes to make them see it. Shock therapy that some need to understand.

Posted by: www | Jul 8 2012 19:17 utc | 84

www @ 84
I rather than shock therapy find the link @ 72 quite persuasive.

Posted by: Alexander | Jul 8 2012 19:22 utc | 85

"It's a shame a hatchet job was downe own her image and the Vogue article abowut her retracted."

It does seem a little catty. I thought modern women were above that sort of thing. ;)

Posted by: dh | Jul 8 2012 19:43 utc | 86

more wiki skanks back story. odd how hezbollah fell for their line! that group's political 'saavy' has proven to be very over rated on a number of occasions. anyway-

Posted by: JL | Jul 8 2012 20:47 utc | 87

Posted by: brian | Jul 8, 2012 10:28:01 AM | 66

the iranians should put those docs out on the internet. that would be the way to go!

Posted by: JL | Jul 9 2012 2:19 utc | 88

b @ 78

BBC News are airing the interview now. Nice.

Posted by: Alexander | Jul 9 2012 3:08 utc | 89

@dh #73

"Jim Baker is a true diplomat. Nothing personal or paternalistic."

Good god, you said this and stay alive. I think You are true an idiot?

"Lord, what fools these mortals be!" Shakespeare

You are hiding behind that obscure two-letter nickname and you post is equally idiotic and obscure, I wonder what your memory span is? How do you judge people, and what is your basis for ir? inquiring mind want to know?

Posted by: neretva'43 | Jul 9 2012 3:12 utc | 90

No need to fly off the handle neretva. My observation about James Baker's diplomatic skills was based on his recent performance with Hillary Clinton. (see Antifo's post #67)

Posted by: dh | Jul 9 2012 3:23 utc | 91

Global Research article also saying Assange is a CIA plant out to do a number on Assad by embarrasing him and his government with the e-mails to be released along the lines of those that revealed Assad's wife's extravagant shopping sprees.

ehmmmm . . . okaaaaaaay

but I see it's written by one Suzanne Posel - Who she?

Well she's got something to do with the rather ridiculous 'Occupy' movement (Which died not with a BANG but with a whimper!! just as it was designed to do) - a 'movement' that was doomed to failure from the very start IMHO. Most of the criticisms I could level at anyone taking 'anonymous' for anything other than a wonderful method for fooling most of the paople most of the time I would also level at 'Occupy'

Here's a chant I'd like to hear at the next street-protest:

What did Occupy achieve? Absolutley nothing

when did they achieve it? NOW!!!

anyhoo here's a decent enough run down of Anon and Occupy and the ridiculously titled 'Arab Spring' - the author sees all 3 as being merely different faces of the same nefarious BS used to co-opt any upswell of discontent so that it can be nullified ASAP -

Personally I find that idea so ridiculous as to not really be worhty of much comment -- other than to say that it conveniently lets Assange off the hook on the complicity charge - she likes to portray him as an "Innocent (but well-mreaning) Dupe" - IMHO he is anything BUT that - he knows damn well what he's doing and it's intended effect and he's quite happy to keep on doing it

IMHO Suzanne Posel is PART of the problem and not part of the solution

As for her article being some sort of an answer to my question regarding where Assange is getting his propaganda from? No sorry - Posel can F-off and find some other sucker for that bullshit.

She's IS right on anonymous being a wonderful vehicle for propaganda promotion and malicious attacks , but the rest of what she says is total bullshit as far as I can see - awake readers might have noticed that Posel offers a BIG FAT NOTHING in the way of evidence to back up her assertions -

The LEAST nefarious explanation I can offer is that Posel's article is just some Occupy chick trying to make a name for herself by being 'controversial' - a more accusatory one would be that she is part of the Damage control team that seeks to preserve Assange's Sainthood in an effort to fend-off the suspicion that Assange is knowingly getting his Dis-Info Direct from some Gov't security Service - something that appears to be slowly becoming obvious to the more intelligent

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 9 2012 12:22 utc | 92

Somehow my paragrahs are a little messed up and a sentence or tow seems out of place - just ignore the sentence "Personally I find that idea so ridiculous as to not really be worhty of much comment -- " and then, the paragraph it appears in makes more sense -

I really should stop typing comments direct into the comment box and hitting 'post' asap

oh well

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 9 2012 12:26 utc | 93

How can anyone check the veracity of ANY of Posel's claims about Anonymous and FLAME

Well we can't cos it's Anonymous see?

Oh Suzanne, how very very convenient for you, eh?

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 9 2012 12:31 utc | 94

Ok - perhaps I've been a little unfair on Ms Posel - apparently her info comes from - get this - an Anonymous (in EVERY sense of the word) Press Release on the internet

so why should anyone pay any attention to an anonymous Press Release ( a rather amusing concept in itself)

Even RT is reporting this stuff as if it were a reliable source of 'news' - - but essentially their reportage is little more than a Copy&paste of an Anonymous (in EVERY sense of the word) 'Press Release' on the internet

Other than that minor error on my part the rest of my criticism of Posel, Occupy and Anonymous remains as before

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 9 2012 13:39 utc | 95

Hu Bris,

I too share your suspicions about Susanne Posel. It's funny but just yesterday I saw a post by her at Activistpost, a website that is new to me like the global research site is. I've been curious about both sites because I've found some good stuff there and found both via (but now it's not as good of a source as it once was).

Anyway, here is Posel's post advocating violence toward children and using a bunch of right-wing terminology:

Posted by: Walter Wit Man | Jul 9 2012 14:35 utc | 96

>>>Anyway, here is Posel's post advocating violence toward children and using a bunch of right-wing terminology: >>>

Walter, Posel's article is advocating the very opposite. It's saying physical violence during childhood such as with spanking may lead to mental health problems in adulthood.

Hu Bris, on Posel, take a valium or something and drop the sour grapes. When was the last time you read a revealing article on something or other and the source was actually named? You're bitching about her for sake of bitching.

Posted by: www | Jul 9 2012 15:23 utc | 97

You're entitled to your opinion 3w - but both you and Posel appear to be suffering form a complete inbability to understand the nature of 'Anonymous' - it is not so mucgh a 'movemnet' as an 'anti-Movement' -

Anyone, even (or especially a Gov't Security Service) could attack a nations/Orgs servers and claim "This was done by 'Anonymous'" and a whole bunch of people would presume that the same or similar people that launched a DDOS on Mastercard in defence of Assange, were responsible for breaking Syrian Gov't encryption - a highly dubious notion, at best

Prior to this the majority of Anon 'missions' were simple DDOS attacks - anyone can do that, no skills required - all you need is the numbers to make it possible

But what Posel,and the ANON 'Press Release', are alleging here is something completely different - essentially it's at the compelte opposite end of the spectrum from a simple DDOS

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 9 2012 15:39 utc | 98

www at 97,

Wrong again. Jeez, were you sent here just to antagonize me? You've done nothing but come at me with a ton of wrongness.

Clearly, for people with advanced reading skills, it's obvious Posel is criticizing the "globalist" scientists that want to tell families how to discipline their children. She clearly defines the research as "biased" and the whole article is a scare article about the dangers of a runaway UN and the "feminazi" agenda (as one of the comments puts it).

She's making fun of the idea that violence against children has psychological effects. She offers no scientific rebuttal and engages in cheap right-wing talking points.

Doesn't surprise me you get this totally wrong.

And how funny that you've now reversed course and are congratulating Hu Bris for making the same statement you were jumping on me for making.

Posted by: Walter Wit Man | Jul 9 2012 15:46 utc | 99

>>>And how funny that you've now reversed course and are congratulating Hu Bris for making the same statement you were jumping on me for making. >>>

Walter, that was Debs jumping on you for the CIA-Assage connection; sorry I couldn't spot all those skeletons and rabbits that you saw running around in the article. It's unfair to be critiquing an article based on talkbackers as you evidently did. On which line in the article does Posel "defines the research as "biased" and the whole article is a scare article about the dangers of a runaway UN and the "feminazi" agenda (as one of the comments puts it)."?

Posted by: www | Jul 9 2012 16:21 utc | 100

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