Syria: Erdogan's Threat Is Already Diminishing
When the Syrian air defense shot down a Turkish reconnaissance jet, according to Pentagon officials within Syrian airspace, the Turkish prime minister Erdogan claimed the jet was downed in international air space and issued a threat:
"The rules of engagement of the Turkish Armed Forces have changed," Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said in a televised speech. "Any military element that approaches the Turkish border from Syria and poses a security risk and danger will be regarded as a threat and treated as a military target."
This led me to ask Is This Erdogan's Backdoor For Implementing Safe Zones?
What is the distance that is described with "approaches the Turkish boarder from Syria"? Is this a fifty meter no-go zone or a 100 miles deep buffer zone within which Turkey will go after any Syrian troop movement?
The answer is in:
Two F-16s took off from İncirlik air base in the southern province of Adana at 9:12 a.m. as a Syrian MI-17 approached Turkish airspace from the south of Hatay.Another alert was given at 3:05 p.m. when a Syrian MI-8 helicopter again approached Hatay and got as close as four miles. Two F-16 from the "scramble wing" took off from İncirlik air base and patrolled the border area.
The final scramble order was given at 6:05 p.m. as an MI-8 helicopter approached the border near the southeastern Mardin province. Two F-16s immediately took off from an airbase in Batman in southeastern Turkey.
No air space violations occurred in the incidents, the General Staff said.
As the Turkish journalist Mahi Zeynalov commented:
The incident shows Turkey won't allow any Syrian aircraft to approach closer than 4 miles to Turkish border, creating de facto buffer zone.
Yesterdays Syrian "action group" meeting in Geneva ended with Russia winning. None of the points Clinton would have liked in the closing document survived the negotiations. Russia again made it clear that it will not push for Assad to leave as this would likely lead to a destruction of the Syrian state as well as other severe consequences. Without Russia the UN and even NATO will not take further steps and Assad will now have lots of time to fight the insurgency down.
The one person that possibly could, and maybe still wants, to escalate is Erdogan. He certainly could provoke another incident like the jet shoot down and then declare war on Syria. But NATO is not with him and the leak by the U.S. government to the Wall Street Journal and earlier to the NYT about the correct location of the shoot down destroys Erdogan's credibility and thereby his ability to get foreign backup for further steps. The Russians added to that by offering radar data that would make Erdogan's position even more uncomfortable:
Russia possesses “objective observation data” concerning the downing of a Turkish jet off the Syrian coast one week ago and is prepared to present it, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said at a press conference in Geneva on Saturday.“We have our objective observation data and we are prepared to present it,” Lavrov said.
That was certainly meant as a Russian threat towards Erdogan and it can be added to the dicey issue of Turkish energy security which depends on natural gas delivery from Iran and Russia. Meanwhile Erdogan's political opposition is slowly waking up and infighting in Turkey about the current policies towards Syria has started.
The four mile buffer zone does matter much at the current state of the conflict in Syria. It will be again of interest once the insurgency is driven back to only hold that zone.
By then further pressure will have build up against Erdogan. His stance is already opposed by the Turkish public. His political opposition woke up. The U.S., which wants Assad weakened but not out, as well as Russia will continue their threats to uncover his claims about the jet downing as lies. As time passes his buffer zone threat will diminish.
It is always difficult to predict what Erdogan might do next. He seems to react rather spontaneously to events and then to hyperventilate over the issue. That could lead to this or that boarder clash with Syria. But for now I do not expect him, or anyone else, to launch a full blown external war.
Syria is now safe from external military intervention. If it sustains the capability to win the difficult fight against the foreign sponsored insurgency, which I think is likely, a few month from now this crisis will be over.
Posted by b on July 1, 2012 at 16:26 UTC | Permalink
« previous pageHello b
You put together an interesting read.
I just can't agree with your optimistic assessment.
"Syria is now safe from external military intervention. If it sustains the capability to win the difficult fight against the foreign sponsored insurgency, which I think is likely, a few month from now this crisis will be over."
Syria is not safe from external intervention. The intervention that has been ongoing will continue and will increase.
It has already spread into Lebanon.
At first, for the longest time, I thought this was just about Syria..
Now, I think it is about the whole area
Syria, Iran, Lebanon, Israel, Egypt
Hope I am wrong! I sure as heck want to be
Penny, your assessment is much closer to what's actually happening than b's; things in Syria will get much worse before they get any better. America doesn't walk away easily from a defeat. Problem with that is that it wouldn't budge Assad but it would still mean very heavy pains for the Syrian people in general.
Posted by: www | Jul 3 2012 14:42 utc | 103
somebody, with all due respect I don't buy the "moral" duty crap of the supposed "defected" soldiers..Every soldier IS a trained killer, whether you like it or not..If they didn't like it, they shouldn't have joined in the first place..
Why, suddenly they became angels and decided not to kill anymore? I bet these "defected" soldiers have no qualms killing their fellow soldiers after they join the fsa?
Posted by: Zico | Jul 3 2012 14:44 utc | 104
Somebody, those kids duped themselves. Of course, the Arabic news networks gave the illusion a helping hand. The Brothers used them, so did the military that wanted Mubarak and his heir-apparent son dumped, so did the West. In the end, everybody won, except the Copts and the Tahrir kids that had 800 of their own killed and hundreds injured to pave the way for a fundamentalist win in Egypt. Same disullusion in Tunisia, Libya and Yemen.
Posted by: www | Jul 3 2012 14:53 utc | 105
Somebody @96
With all due respect, I don't buy that moral duty story you're insinuating here..Every soldier IS a trained killer, whether they like it or not.They should've thought of that first before joining the army.Are you telling me these generals suddenly became angels and decided killing people is not good anymore?wth???
I bet those "defected" soldiers don't mind killing their fellow former soldier colleagues once they join the fsa?? See how hollow your argument sound?
Posted by: Zico | Jul 3 2012 14:56 utc | 106
Not necessarily, Zico. A real soldier is trained to kill an enemy, not a fellow countryman. It's said that most of the defected soldiers weren't really soldiers at all but draft dodgers that joined the opposition and are playing at being soldiers of the FSA and earning about $500 a month. Maybe for these toy soldiers, killing a countryman could be an easy task.
Posted by: www | Jul 3 2012 15:58 utc | 108
Tony Jones interviews Robert Fisk:
TONY JONES: What do we know about the Free Syrian Army whose commander, Colonel Riad al-Assad, is actually now threatening to resume attacks?Fisk also believes that the war in Syria is going to be a long and bloody one. My own feeling is that Bashar is a better guy than his father was. And President Obama and his State Secretary, Mrs. Clinton, do not qualify as "good guys"; and it would be easier to say that Fisk's description of them as "mountebanks and liars" is about right.ROBERT FISK: I wouldn't take too seriously anything he says, simply because whenever I've gone to the border and tried to see the Army, I've seen three or four different versions of it.
The fact of the matter is that the Syrian opposition, the armed opposition to Bashar al-Assad is so divided that it cannot be regarded as being a single united faction. What we've got to realise - and this is one of the reasons why Obama and Madame Clinton and all the other mountebanks and liars are saying what they're saying is that we don't know who the opposition is.
And since we don't know who the opposition is, all we can do - "we" being the West - is express our outrage against Bashar al-Assad and his Baathist regime. But we can't give too much support for the opposition, who may indeed include members of Al Qaeda, and whose members may indeed perhaps be involved in the Houla massacre. We don't know yet. I'm not saying that Bashar al-Assad is a good guy. He's not, he's a bad guy.
Posted by: somebody | Jul 3 2012 17:25 utc | 110
this why some govts officials defected:
#Assad: HUGE sums of money were offered to the Syrian officials to defect from the government. #Syria
[money always can buy politicians]
Posted by: brian | Jul 3 2012 17:26 utc | 111
The remains of the 9 dead bodies found in Karm Elzitoun, killed over 4 months ago & burnt. #Homs #Syria +18 http://pic.twitter.com/RocwaZ6N
Posted by: brian | Jul 3 2012 17:26 utc | 112
A picture from Iraqi war was posted on a "rebels" FB page, they're claiming it's of #Syria. http://twitter.com/LindaJuniper/status/220199878419161089/photo/1
A photo from a Turkish series was posted in an Egyptian FB page, they claimed it was taken in #Syria
http://twitter.com/LindaJuniper/status/219875437193609216/photo/1
Posted by: brian | Jul 3 2012 17:27 utc | 113
"80.5% of Turks do not support Erdogan's government's policies towards #Syria" - Bassam Abu Abdallah to Addounia TV #Turkey
=============================
so where is the turkish 'democracy'?
Posted by: brian | Jul 3 2012 17:27 utc | 114
Warning letter from FSA to an officer ordering hims to defect or else. That's the only way FSA can gain support. #Syria http://pic.twitter.com/4MlvFCMI
Posted by: brian | Jul 3 2012 17:29 utc | 115
Sāṭeʿ ساطع @sate3
Ba'ath Univ faculty Dr. Ahlam Imad was massacred by terrorists, along with her father, mother & three nephews. via @addouniatv #Homs #Syria
Linda Juniper @LindaJuniper
The family that was killed in #Homs was that of Ahlam Imad, a Dr. in Engineering, an activist for Woman & child rights & an inventor. #Syria
Posted by: brian | Jul 3 2012 17:37 utc | 116
Copeland, Press TV generally is a useless source of information, but here they have a very good point: UN-Navy Pillay- says the rebels are getting weapons and it is stoking the conflict - but does not name the parties that send weapons - Saudi Arabia openly says they are funding the rebels - why does Navy Pillay not single out Saudi Arabia -
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/07/03/249203/saudi-arabia-fueling-unrest-syria-abroad/
the footage is funny - Cameron and Obama in Saudi Arabia ...
what they are saying, that Saudi Arabia is sending weapons and money on the explicit direction of the US is valid, too
So what Fisk forgets to mention is that Obama and Clinton are taking a detour, so they do not have to explain to the American people why they are funding groups close to Al Queida, they did the same in Libya. To cover themselves they sent the CIA to Turkey to "monitor" who is getting money ...
Posted by: somebody | Jul 3 2012 18:28 utc | 117
sana has the complete Assad interview, it is good, it is effective. The Turkish government will have to open its records or people won't believe their story, and think they tried to lie them into a war
http://www.sana.sy/eng/21/2012/07/03/429127.htm
Journalist: If this process meant that you abandon your office in order to save your people and save Syria, would you do that?
President Assad: If the president’s departure is in the interest of Syria, the president should naturally go. This is self-evident. You should never stay in office one day if the people do not want you; and the elections are the means through which the people show whether they want you or not.
Journalist: This means that you are not thinking of staying in this office forever?
President Assad: I have just said that the office doesn’t mean anything to me. What is important is what I achieve. I am a person who likes to achieve.
Posted by: somebody | Jul 3 2012 20:04 utc | 118
al jazeera translates the Arab interview from Turkish to English
it is shortened and the political effect is taken out
I wonder if Cumhuriyet did this or Al Jazeera
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2012/07/201273142230371284.html
Posted by: somebody | Jul 3 2012 20:47 utc | 119
somebody, Assad's interview is interesting; (I tried at first to translate it with google, but the result was almost unreadable)
1) Assad has started to use the media, as many MoA readers were asking
2) no face-saving for Erdogan, Assad insists in differentiating between Erdogan's private interests and the good people of Turkey, brothers of the Syrians
3) interesting hint on the cause of US animosity:
"If I personally were interested in just holding this office, I would have implemented America’s dictates and the demands made through petrodollars ... and what’s more important, I would have accepted the installation of a missile shield in Syria."probably holds for Gaddafi, too
Posted by: claudio | Jul 3 2012 21:37 utc | 120
Yeah, Assad should do more PR-work. He is eloquent enough not to come out of it with the bad end of the deal.
Posted by: Alexander | Jul 4 2012 1:03 utc | 121
Copeland, Press TV generally is a useless source of information, but here they have a very good point: UN-Navy Pillay- says the rebels are getting weapons and it is stoking the conflict - but does not name the parties that send weapons - Saudi Arabia openly says they are funding the rebels - why does Navy Pillay not single out Saudi Arabia -
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/07/03/249203/saudi-arabia-fueling-unrest-syria-abroad/
...
Posted by: somebody | Jul 3, 2012 2:28:53 PM | 119
on Syria Press TV is good...on Libya...bad
Posted by: brian | Jul 4 2012 2:32 utc | 122
The al-Assad family has ruled for almost 42 years and by the time of the next scheduled elections in 2014, it will have ruled 44 years, 14 of them by President Bashar. The new constitution gives him the option, if elected by the people, to remain in power for an additional 14 years. If this were to happen, President Bashar will have been in office for 28 years, almost as long as his father. This is not a really big change as was promised by the new constitution. I think he should have taken the decision to step down in 2 years when his term will be up as he would have served the 2 terms of 7 years as called for by the new constitution.
Posted by: www | Jul 4 2012 3:07 utc | 123
Joud @Hey_Joud
Sham FM: Deir Ezzor - Car exploded while terrorists were planting an explosive device in it killing more than 20 terrorists. #haha #Syria
-------------
what does this say about arab terrorist competence!
===========
Two men & one woman were injured by a sniper in ElZhra'a, in Elmisherfeh terrorists broke in a house & kidnapped a man. #Homs #Syria
Today in Juber #Damascus terrorists burned a bus while the driver was still in. #Syria https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=145052218965567&set=vb.278397105582137&type=2&theater
Posted by: brian | Jul 4 2012 3:11 utc | 124
Linda Juniper @LindaJuniper
First the terrorist pointed the camera to a building then it was bombed. That's ElQusur area in #Homs #Syria
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrxab8_yyyyyy-yyyyyyy-yyyyyy-yyyyy-yyyyyyy-yyyyyy-yyyyyyy-yyyyyy-yyyyy-yyyyyy_news
the monsters then cry allah akbar to their blood thirsty god...this is not going to make islam popular in the western world...!
Posted by: brian | Jul 4 2012 3:23 utc | 125
on Facebook:
XieMing Mai
There is a German language report that a group hacked the Turkish Foreign Mnistry and discovered that they have planned to provoke war with Syria. Ask Klostermeier to clarify this with URLs, etc.
============
waiting for the info to come thru
Posted by: brian | Jul 4 2012 3:30 utc | 126
Schon am Montag hatte die Hacker-Gruppe RedHack angekündigt, „etwas Großes“ zu veröffentlichen und behauptete die Behörden könnten nichts dagegen tun. So war es dann auch (vor kurzem hatte die Gruppe die Seiten von Milch-Firmen attackiert – mehr hier). Tatsächlich veröffentlichte die Gruppe die Identitäten mehrerer ausländischer Diplomaten, die derzeit in der Türkei tätig sind. Dazu stellten sie die ID-Cards der Diplomaten ins Internet, die ihnen das türkische Außenministerium ausgestellt hatte. Dabei handele es sich nur um einige ausgewählte Personen, die Gruppe hat nach eigenen Angaben noch viel mehr Informationen. Auf ihrer eigenen Webseite erklärte die Gruppe, die Aktion sei dem türkischen und dem syrischen Volk gewidmet. Über Twitter schrieb RedHack dann auch, dass sie die Internetseite des Außenministeriums, public.mfa.gov.tr, mit der Absicht an das Sivas-Massaker (hier) zu erinnern und auf Syrien aufmerksam zu machen gehacked hätten.
Kurzzeitig waren auf der Seite Bilder des türkischen Ministerpräsidenten Erdogan gemeinsam mit Gaddafi und Assad unter dem Titel „Ministerium für Krieg und Sklaverei, nicht Auswärtige Angelegenheiten“ zu sehen. Darunter schrieben sie die Message: „Wenn ihr so sehr Krieg wollt, dann zieht eure Stiefel an und kämpft. Wir werden nicht für euch sterben, nur weil ihr von der Mehrheit gewählt wurdet.“
Das Außenministerium erklärte, der Wissenschafts- und Technologieforschungsrat der Türkei (TÜBITAK) sowie Mitarbeiter des Innenministeriums seien derzeit dabei sämtliche Schlupflöcher in der Firewall des Ministeriums zu schließen.
Posted by: brian | Jul 4 2012 3:56 utc | 127
Somebody #119, a telling part from the Press TV interview you posted that no one ever talks about, Retired General Jaber says:
"... the responsible [ones] did forget that America was behind the invasion of Kuwait by Saddam Hussein, and America was behind the war, invasion and aggression against Iran. They did forget this."
Saddam was played by the US to make war on Iran, the Gulf Arabs financed it, the US then went along with Saddam's partial invasion of Kuwait but he screwed up when he got greedy and decided to take it all of it.
Posted by: www | Jul 4 2012 4:05 utc | 128
A Lonergan @HarryOrmond
@Hey_Joud Dozens of Belgian assault rifles seized in Latakia, Syria #Belgian #Belgium
http://video.yandex.ru/users/news-anna2012/view/44/#
Belgium with memories of its former glorious empire doesnt want to miss out
Posted by: brian | Jul 4 2012 4:09 utc | 129
This ITV journalist here says on twitter he is absolutely neutral and just shows what he sees
http://www.itv.com/news/2012-07-03/syrias-war-is-swallowing-its-young/
now, how did he get those child soldier scenes in battle from the Crac des Chevaliers, when seconds afterwards he explains it is too dangerous to go there? Did he really see that himself?
Can he be sure the kid is?
Do they think people are stupid?
Posted by: somebody | Jul 4 2012 5:30 utc | 130
@brian #126
what does this say about arab terrorist competence!don't know, ask the Us in Iraq ...
Posted by: claudio | Jul 4 2012 5:58 utc | 131
Might be, I believe it could happen. These guys are fanatical enough to enlist children and women in their fight, why not. And I don't see why some kids wouldn't join.
Posted by: Alexander | Jul 4 2012 5:59 utc | 132
Assad should stay as head of state as long as his people want it and everyone else can mind their own business....so far Assad under syria has been a far better prospect than US under Reagan Bush 1 Clinton Bush 2 and Obomber
Posted by: brian | Jul 4 2012 6:38 utc | 133
time limits on a political leaders' mandate have become a serious affair since FDR
first thing the plutocrats did after he died in 1945, after 12 years of presidency (since 1932), was to impose the two 4-years terms limit
it's one the most effective measures for limiting political power; important changes need time to be implemented; all the great european rulers (dictators, we'd say today) - Louis XIV, Henry and Elizabeth Tudor, etc ruled for decades
for the last time in western history, FDR had the power and time to force changes difficult to reverse; it took 50 years for the effects to wear off and people to forget history and be manipulated to go back to the plutocrats' Golden Age
politicians aren't interchangeable; see also the effectiveness of political assassinations (Olof Palme and scores of third-world leaders); to ask a foreign leader to "step down", as the Us does ever more frequently, is an act of war and a recipe for chaos
so -- Assad should stay until he has an effective and constructive role to play in Syrian politics;
Posted by: claudio | Jul 4 2012 7:07 utc | 134
politicians aren't interchangeable; see also the effectiveness of political assassinations (Olof Palme and scores of third-world leaders); to ask a foreign leader to "step down", as the Us does ever more frequently, is an act of war and a recipe for chaos
so -- Assad should stay until he has an effective and constructive role to play in Syrian politics;
Posted by: claudio | Jul 4, 2012 3:07:11 AM | 136
yes to the first,,, Assads is most effective where he is now....if on the other hand we put any western politicians in place of assad:
'XXXXX should stay until he/she has an effective and constructive role to play in YYYY politics'
most of the current crop would be flipping burgers
Posted by: brian | Jul 4 2012 7:33 utc | 135
122 Claudio, I do not think that was the deal Assad was offered but is an aside by Assad on the deal Erdogan took, petrodollars and the missile shield in Turkey ...
Posted by: somebody | Jul 4 2012 7:51 utc | 136
>>> so -- Assad should stay until he has an effective and constructive role to play in Syrian politics; >>>
Who will decide when the constructive role has been fulfilled? Surely not the very same person that we're saying should have a set term to serve. If after 60 years the Assad family is not satisfied that it's about time to let someone else get a turn at kicking the can, do you shut up and let the dynasty go on for another 60 Years? It isn't any wonder some here don't find any fault with the current dictatorship. I'm not saying that Assad should go now but in 2 years when his term will be up as he will have already been in power for 14 years. After all, Syria is a republic, not a monarchy, but the Assad family doesn't appear to think so. If anyone believes that no one else other than Pres Assad can do the job, then Syria is in a bigger mess than anyone is imagining and all the more reason why he should leave.
Posted by: www | Jul 4 2012 8:09 utc | 137
Thierry Meyssan about the destruction of Al-Ikhbariya television June 30, 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tRXEm9LzZR0
Posted by: brian | Jul 4 2012 8:20 utc | 138
>>> most of the current crop would be flipping burgers>>>
Brian, wrong to be devalorizing the flipping of hamburgers; il n'est point de sot métier; il n’y a que des sottes gens.
Posted by: www | Jul 4 2012 8:36 utc | 139
Look www, the Syrian problem is bound to be systemic, i.e. founded in culture, not one guy or one family.
For that to change, you either need a complete defeat like in Japan or in Germany, or the economic base of power has to change, like a middle or working class getting more negotiating power, or a generational change reflecting economic changes. Everything else is pure cosmetics.
In other news Assad seems to have caused havoc in Turkey with his interview
http://twitter.com/#!/MahirZeynalov
Posted by: somebody | Jul 4 2012 9:24 utc | 140
Brian, it's a shame that among the tons of useless videos you are posting, there are a few very good ones that even you is not aware of such as the one by Thierry Meyssan in your post 140. Had you listened to all 8 minutes of it, you would have learned how propaganda is being manipulated by the West to disparage Syria, not only with international audiences but with Syrians themselves on their very own Syrian stations using counterfeit screen identification logos and filming scenes in studios that duplicate actual Syrian village squares erected in Qatar and Saudi Arabia and how the West got caught doing it. This is why it was out of vengeance of being caught at it that Ikhbaria's 4 studios were bombed by NATO-sent commandos and why 7 people that work at the studio were summarily executed. Check out the video, it's worth it. What happened to Ikhbaria is a repeat of what was done for the same reason in Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya.
Posted by: www | Jul 4 2012 9:38 utc | 141
Somebody, I've said it before, Assad is not the bad guy in this story. In fact, he has been trying to make improvements since he took over in 2000 but "they" wouldn't let him. Even before he took over, his late brother, Bassil, that had been groomed to take over the father's place and reputed to have a much more aggressive personality was talking about wanting to make necessary changes whie his father was still alive but "they" put a stop to these wild ideas. Bassil was an equestrian champion, into fast living and the complete opposite of his shy ophtalmologist brother, Bashar. Bassil died in a car crash at age 33 and why Bashar became President when the father died in 2000. "They" are the Baathist elites that are theones really running the country and even if Bashar gets removed, nothing would really change in Syria.
It's good that the interview made big waves in Turkey.
Posted by: www | Jul 4 2012 10:09 utc | 142
Destroying/bombing media centres is what NATO does..Anybody remember Libya? How NATO bombed Libyan TV stations while they were reporting live on-air? There's rumors that even the fall of Tripoli was a staged event. The UN didn't even condemn it. Much of the war against Syria is media war..I'd say 85% media and the rest is desperate moves by NATO backed agitprop launching spectacular terrorist acts and them conveniently blaming it on the government.
So far, Syrians haven't bulked at all the foreign propaganda being thrown at them constantly..Al jazeera's gone overdrive ramming through their audience with all sorts of lies.They've been caught many times from faking the news to actually "producing" the new.This has led to many of their top journalists to resign. But the criminal thani family don't care as long as their dream of dominance is achieve.
You see, the entire ME has reached a turning point and the future is now being determined by two opposing factions.It all started when the US destroyed Sunni power in Iraq.The Sunnis of the region feel they've been "robbed" of their power and dominance in the region to the Shia after the collapse/destruction of Saddam's quasi Baath/Sunni power structure.In order to regain their lost status in the Arab world, they've decided to align themselves with Turkey and even Israel and wage a massive war on anything Shia or non-Sunni. So you see daily bombardment of Shiite pilgrims in Iraq, Yemen, etc. So far, Shia leaders have decided to not to react or be drawn into such moves but it's only a matter of time before the sh*t hits the fan.It'll make the ethnic cleansing of Baghdad after the fall of Saddam look like a walk in the park.
So expect more bombing of Shiites and more jihadi elements being sent into Syria to fight the "unGodly" Assad - with full backing of Turkey, GCC monarchies and NATO.
If it had anything to do with democracy, Turkey will be equally criticizing the puppet rulers of Bahrain, Yemen, etc..It's clearly about who dominates the region after the destruction of Sunni power structure in the Levant.
Posted by: Zico | Jul 4 2012 10:32 utc | 143
Make it simple: chaos in the Middle East = no tourists there, no investement from Middle Eastern expats in US/EU.
Bingo for US/EU banks and touristic resorts.
Economy is in crisis? Ask for a war economy...
Posted by: Mina | Jul 4 2012 10:33 utc | 144
Speaking about Libya and the things NATO did, they got rid of Gaddafi, but Sarkozy is stil not out of the woods. From CNN yesterday:
"Attorney: Sarkozy's home, offices raided
By the CNN Wire Staff
July 4, 2012 -- Updated 0032 GMT (0832 HKT)
Police raided former French President Nicolas Sarkozy's home Monday in an ongoing investigation.
(CNN) -- Police on Tuesday raided the Paris home and offices of Nicolas Sarkozy, his attorney said, amid an ongoing investigation into whether the former French president received illegal campaign contributions.
Sarkozy was not present during the raid, having left Monday for a family vacation in Canada, according to his attorney, Thierry Herzog.
The investigation of the former leader has largely centered around whether L'Oréal cosmetics heiress Liliane Bettencourt and her staff illegally helped Sarkozy during his 2007 presidential campaign.
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/03/world/europe/france-sarkozy-home-raid/index.html
Posted by: www | Jul 4 2012 10:36 utc | 145
Souri
Posted July 2, 2012 at 6:46 AM
Proving that the West’s Syrian preoccupations have nothing to do with expressed noble motives of democracy and civilian welfare, the Conference of Friends (sic) of the Syrian People is preparing a plan to pillage the economy upon occupation. In grand colonial tradition, a Working Group, co-presided by the Emirates and Germany, is studying how to share the spoils after Syria is vanquished. NATO and the CCG are “counting their chickens before they’re hatched”.
http://www.voltairenet.org/The-Friends-of-Syria-divvy-up
Posted by: brian | Jul 4 2012 11:34 utc | 146
www, I did not mean that. I am saying even if the "sunni axis" as seems to be the West's strategy, removes the Baathists elites, like they did in Iraq, the result will not be a change in culture, i.e. democratic or whatever, just the alliances might change (and I am not even sure of that ...)
Posted by: somebody | Jul 4 2012 11:36 utc | 147
Posted by: www | Jul 4, 2012 5:38:36 AM | 143
care to indicate which you consider to be useless? that will help me determine which is most useful!
it may surprise you WWW but i did listen to all Meysaans video.
Posted by: brian | Jul 4 2012 11:37 utc | 148
I do not think there will be war
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/report-irans-ahmadinejad-says-eu-oil-embargo-the-strongest-sanctions-yet-against-country/2012/07/03/gJQAUFPkKW_story.html
Report: Iran’s Ahmadinejad says EU oil embargo the “strongest” sanctions yet against country
"But he added that Iran should view the EU ban “as an opportunity to wean the country’s budget off its dependence on oil revenues,” saying that would “remove the weapon of oil from the enemy’s hand forever.”
My lifestyle and my mouth would get me in deep trouble in Teheran, however, I have to admit, that they make sense.
Posted by: somebody | Jul 4 2012 11:54 utc | 149
Brian, I wasn't referring to the videos as useless since I said that some were good like the one of Meyssan you posted; there was another good one last week. I meant the dumping of link after link to demonstrate what is already known about the terrorists in the opposition.
Posted by: www | Jul 4 2012 12:54 utc | 150
>>> the result will not be a change in culture>>>
Changes are actually occurring but to the worse. It's happening in Iraq, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt and Yemen. All of them are now into alliances with the West but this doesn't necessarily make them better. Christians were much better off with the Baathists of Saddam and Assad. The Jews and womens rights were better off with Zein al-Abidine Ali, the average person better off with Gaddafi.
Posted by: www | Jul 4 2012 13:08 utc | 151
You can add Afghanistan into the mix
http://www.retronaut.co/2010/10/once-upon-a-time-in-afghanistan/
Posted by: somebody | Jul 4 2012 13:54 utc | 152
This is a warning coming from Russia who has the keys of the syrian anti aircraft defence.Its very strange that the western official narrative doesn't change, just like if they had forgotten what happened in Georgia when the russian army came out of its barracks...
Posted by: tompouce48 | Jul 4 2012 19:38 utc | 153
The comments to this entry are closed.
www, no99, ask those kids who were duped with "Hope and Change" how they feel now.
There should be a basic education in schools about scams like that.
Posted by: somebody | Jul 3 2012 12:37 utc | 101