Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 7, 2012
Open Thread 2012-13

News & views …

Comments

Shock tactics: Treatment or torture?

“the Boston school that uses electric shock as a treatment for children and adults with severe autism or emotional problems
Residents at the school carry small rucksacks, trailing wires that lead under their clothes and end in electrodes attached to their skin. Each rucksack contains a box, operated by staff members via remote control. When a button on the controller is pressed, a signal is sent generating a charge that delivers an electric shock to the skin. The teachers regularly inflict electric shocks on students, some as young as eight, zapping them for up to two seconds on their legs, arms or stomach.”

What sort of a sick society could possibly sanction this?

Posted by: Marmite | May 7 2012 19:45 utc | 1

the same sick society that says everything is OK in Fukushima…
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31263.htm
The Worst Yet to Come? Why Nuclear Experts Are Calling Fukushima a Ticking Time-Bomb
By Brad Jacobson
May 07, 2012 “AlterNet” — More than a year after the triple meltdown at the Fukushima Daiichi power plant, …
[Comment cut. Linking is fine, copying whole pieces into a comment is disrespecting the pieces authors as well as the readers here. Stop it – b]

Posted by: lotsofnoise | May 7 2012 22:38 utc | 2

lotsofnoise: another guy that thinks we can’t follow a link

Posted by: claudio | May 7 2012 23:10 utc | 3

I think he’s POA in disguise

Posted by: Marmite | May 7 2012 23:11 utc | 4

very interesting article on developments in Afpak, by Bhadrakumar at ATOL:
Obama has an Afghan game plan
concerning the New Silk Road, at the center of the Us strategy, an older article by Bhadrakumar: Pipeline project a new Silk Road
yes, it really seems there’s a strategy there, beyond drones, body counts, etc
at the decisive moment, the Chinese (and the Russians, I’d add) chickened out; Pakistan will be induced, by carrot and by stick, to accept; will the Taliban continue to oppose Us bases and a SOFA, without a reliable ally in the region?

Posted by: claudio | May 7 2012 23:21 utc | 5

lotsofnoise #2
you sure live up to your handle.
the link and one paragraph would get more attention than having to scroll fifteen pages to get to the next coherent post.
and I’m anti-nuke. I’ll read the link but not a-lot-of-your-noise.

Posted by: juannie | May 7 2012 23:36 utc | 6

@ Claudio
Maybe the US will have its pipeline silk road built in time for the Taliban takeover. I don’t think China and Russia chickened out. It’s the bleeding strategy. China and Russia know the longer America stays in Afghanistan, throwing good money after bad and weakening its military the better it will be for them. Why insist on a 12 year disaster when they can accept a 14 year or more disaster. Russia has agreed to be more active in the Northern supply route in exchange for a further 250 million/per year. Why refuse?
As for China it is already locking down most of the mineral mines in Afghanistan for itself. Why not let the US stay longer guarding those mines at no cost to the Chinese. As for Pakistan they might be persuaded to play ball with the US again. But not without another nice bribe to sweeten the deal like a 10% tax on all US supplies that transit their country (as has been suggested in the Pakistani parliment).
Everyone knows the US has lost the war… except for the US itself. Now all that is left is for the regional countries to milk the US empire for all the cash it can get. China and Russia would never have just agreed to let the US Military stay after 2014, so close to their nations.

Posted by: Colm O’ Toole | May 7 2012 23:51 utc | 7

@1 – Marmite
not sure what i think of it. i didn’t read the entire article, but from the sound of it, it seems these are not the high-functioning autists most of us are familiar with. rather, these kids would in the past have been restrained either physically or chemically. some would have ended up like that Kennedy sister.
i don’t think it’s quite the same thing as these schools that call the cops to taser tantrum-throwing tykes. but it does give me an uneasy feeling as i recall Charlotte Iserbyt’s interview where she talks about how the current education model was based on Wundt (preceded Skinner), and has the aims of training children, not educating them.

Posted by: Proton Soup | May 7 2012 23:52 utc | 8

“i don’t think it’s quite the same thing as these schools that call the cops to taser tantrum-throwing tykes.”
Proton it’s far far worse – the arresting of children could be said to be simply the immediate result of bad descisions being made by bad decision makers , people that will always take the route ‘safest’ for THEM (covering their asses) – but what goes on in that school is tortue – plain and simple – officially sanctioned torture, built-in to the school ethos.
Underground History of American Education
“Our official assumptions about the nature of modern childhood are dead wrong. Children allowed to take responsibility and given a serious part in the larger world are always superior to those merely permitted to play and be passive.”

Posted by: Marmite | May 8 2012 0:18 utc | 9

Unmanned vessel could soon be working for Navy

Technology that sent unmanned aircraft over Iraq and Afghanistan soon could be steering unstaffed naval boats for such dangerous tasks as minesweeping, submarine detection, intelligence gathering and approaching hostile vessels.

Et tu, Bluto?
(h/t Bruce Schneier’s Blog)

Posted by: Dr. Wellington Yueh | May 8 2012 0:33 utc | 10

Marmite @#1 asked: “What sort of a sick society could possibly sanction this?”
The US isn’t the only culture that seems to be wallowing in the Dark Ages. Institutionalized barbarism is the norm and not the exception these days.
However, to answer your direct question, at least according to Fareed Zakaria, we’re talking about a culture of “…scared, fearful losers.”

Posted by: Monolycus | May 8 2012 0:48 utc | 11

as long as they are not actually killing the babies to make the powder (i.e: the babies die of natural causes etc) then there’s no way I’d claim that simply powdering the bodies of dead babies is near as bad as deliberately torturing live humans

Posted by: Marmite | May 8 2012 1:56 utc | 12

@Marmite #12:
It might be comforting to imagine that we live in a world of vultures who merely exploit the corpses that nature so bountifully provides, but between the historical examples of burking“>http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/burke”>burking when there is profit to be had and the very well-acknowledged endemic rates of deliberate infanticide in Northern Asia, I think such a view borders on the willfully naive.
Still, we are discussing apples and oranges here, and if you assess one particular culture to be the less enlightened, then that is a subjective judgement call that does not bear debate. Your opinion has been noted.

Posted by: Monolycus | May 8 2012 2:35 utc | 13

US’ Silk Road strategy–part of the global plan to insert itself between the producer and the consumer of energy. The only plausible reason for US involvement is to offer “protection services.” Kosovo “protects” the supply line to Europe. Afghanistan “protects” the supply line from the Caspian basin to the Indian Ocean and to China.
I can’t believe Europe tolerates this nonsense, though most of European “leaders” seem to love being American lapdogs. China and India make think otherwise, which will make things interesting.

Posted by: JohnH | May 8 2012 4:17 utc | 14

Monolycus @ 11: Thanks for the Salon article,(second link) Greenwald has it nailed…..again.

Posted by: ben | May 8 2012 4:19 utc | 15

same sick society sanctions this
http://www.leninology.com/2012/05/syriza.html
“The neo-Nazis should not be ignored. Their emergence, almost out of nowhere, as a mass fascist organisation with actual Third Reich-style paraphernalia, shows how perilous the terrain is, and how much danger awaits Greece’s most vulnerable communities.Recently, the state has been stoking up racism toward immigrants and planning a crackdown on the grounds that they ‘spread diseases’.
further on Greek Govt moves to test illegal immigrants
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/europe/120403/greece-plans-test-illegal-immigrants-diseases-detain-sick-ones-indefinitely
(hows that 3rd 4th & 6th posters)

Posted by: lotsofnoise | May 8 2012 5:32 utc | 16

muuuuuuch better 😉

Posted by: Marmite | May 8 2012 5:55 utc | 17

” Kosovo “protects” the supply line to Europe. Afghanistan “protects” the supply line
Kosovo also ‘protects’ the supplylines from Afghanistan

Posted by: Marmite | May 8 2012 5:59 utc | 18

As the parent of an autistic human I have to say the notion of subjecting anybody to electric shocks is barbaric and inhumane, but when it goes beyond that to juvenile humans who have a permanent chronic disability which causes them to struggle to understand how humans are meant to behave and who are frequently unable communicate anything accurate about their circumstance, including pain and/or distress, the behaviour transcends barbarism & becomes more self indulgent, a form of sadism as practiced by perverts.
The staff at that school need to be in the cell adjacent to the scum who torture Muslims because they’re all terrorists; just down from the political leaders who launch drone attacks on population centers in order to get re-elected. How? Because it’s cheaper to scare the bejesus outta citizens by beating up terror attacks with propaganda, then bombing a mob of innocent foreigners, than it is to ‘bribe’ voters by creating programs to assist the impoverished, homeless or ill.
In fact that is prolly how the ‘school’ got to torturing people with disabilities. We are already at blaming poor people for being poor, and unemployed people for not having a job despite the reality that most of the jobs have long gone offshore to societies where a living wage is deemed to be about 5 cents/month; so what is more natural than punishing humans with disabilities who have the brazen gall to keep breathing?

Posted by: Debs is dead | May 8 2012 7:04 utc | 19

China and Russia would never have just agreed to let the US Military stay after 2014, so close to their nations.
we’re staying in afghanistan until 2024.

Posted by: omen | May 8 2012 7:14 utc | 20

The Judge Rotenberg Centre comes down to the absolute power parents have over their children’s destiny
http://www.science20.com/countering_tackling_woo/judge_rotenberg_trial_ends_settlement_nothing_changes_jrc_though-89394
“If you think shutting this place down will be easy–remember that it’s been operating for over 39 years, and that as of 2007, it brought in $56 million dollars and employed 900 people. That would be a big hit in terms of employment and the benefits to the local economy derives from the JRC.
The Mother Jones article noted, and how does read this and not be horrified: “The Rotenberg Center is the only facility in the country that disciplines students by shocking them, a form of punishment not inflicted on serial killers or child molesters or any of the 2.2 million inmates now incarcerated in U.S. jails and prisons.” Why is the Massachusetts legislature protecting the JRC? Why hasn’t the DOJ stepped in and shut them down? One answer is the parents. Yes, the parents: “Massachusetts officials have twice tried to shut the Rotenberg Center down—once in the 1980s and again in the 1990s. Both times parents rallied to its defense, and both times it prevailed in court. (See “Why Can’t Massachusetts Shut Matthew Israel Down?” page 44.)”
What matters most to these parents isn’t that their children are being protected, but that they are controllable–parents are sent home with the shocking device so that they can administer the shocks when their children come home for a visit.”

Posted by: somebody | May 8 2012 7:17 utc | 21

Yeah, lotsofnoise #16. Appreciate your listening and btw, I found the read at your #2 link appropriate and valuable. I live in the shadow of VT Yankee, an aging GE reactor which has been granted an extension to run for another 20 years with the disapproval of the majority of people int VT, our legislature and governor. Their spent fuel rods are accumulating in a pool about 100 ft. above the ground, same as Fukushima’s #4. The article gives insight into the thinking of the NRC in not insisting on dry cask storage; i.e. the owners don’t want to pay the price. The owner, in this case Entergy has been continually irresponsible, lied to our Public Service Board, reneged on it’s original contract and not fulfilled it’s obligation to put money into a decommissioning fund. And yet a federal judge ruled in their favor to keep operating past the design life of the plant and at 20% over design load. VT is now involved in a federal lawsuit to close the plant. And so it goes.

Posted by: juannie | May 8 2012 10:53 utc | 22

A shocker (well, perhaps not, since they were heading in this direction long ago…)

Posted by: Maracatu | May 8 2012 11:34 utc | 23

but juannie, there no chance of a tsunami in Vermont (laughs because there isn’t any other option)

Posted by: heathroi | May 8 2012 13:04 utc | 24

From Krugman on the elections across the pond:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/07/opinion/krugman-those-revolting-europeans.html?_r=1

Posted by: ben | May 8 2012 14:01 utc | 25

AIPAC. How this small nation of almost 6 million people managed to control the world’s most powerful nation and got away with stealing a whole country and killing thousands of people over the past several decades with impunity. The roots of this organization and its incredible influence on the US Govt are being revealed in many declassified documents. Apart from many other horrific stories, the documents reveal how Israel stole American Nuclear products, leaving the Americans to clean up after it and, got away with it.
http://www.irmep.org/

Posted by: ana souri | May 8 2012 14:03 utc | 26

A good start for Hollande?
hehill.com/blogs/global-affairs/terrorism/225845-new-french-president-to-announce-afghanistan-withdrawal-despite-concerns-from-obama

Posted by: ben | May 8 2012 14:28 utc | 27

Sorry, link didn’t work.

Posted by: ben | May 8 2012 14:29 utc | 28

“Stocks and the euro fell in Europe on Tuesday.” Yes, Big Finance’s reaction has started. Look for a big rise in interest rates on French debt and a downgrade by Moody’s. They will tame Hollande, although he probably won’t prove to that difficult to bring in line (a la Clinton, Blair, Obama.)
Big Finance has a proven track record breaking the French Left, so they’ll most certainly follow the same script:
http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/2012/05/HALIMI/47666

Posted by: JohnH | May 8 2012 15:13 utc | 30

“The neo-Nazis should not be ignored. Their emergence, almost out of nowhere, as a mass fascist organisation with actual Third Reich-style paraphernalia, shows how perilous the terrain is, and how much danger awaits Greece’s most vulnerable communities. Recently, the state has been stoking up racism toward immigrants and planning a crackdown on the grounds that they ‘spread diseases’.
Richard Seymour at Lenin’s Tomb is a bad guide on this matter. The SWP, in Britain has been obsessing about neo-nazis throughout its long plunge into irrelevance. While doing so it has become part of the liberal left establishment, very soft on NATO and imperialist interventions supporting what it calls revolutionaries in the pay of the Turks and Sauds.
The truth is that, in the circumstances, the neo-nazis did not do at all well in Greece. As to France: Le Pen was the candidate of a current two centuries old in French politics, the same current that threw up the anti-Dreyfusards, Action Francaise and a very solid base for Petainism. One would have expected her to do better, given that the policies she put forward were a deal more popular than the neo-liberal bromides Hollande was peddling: she was against the EU Treaty, against austerity, for social services and for national sovereignty (as opposed to licking Uncle Sam’s boots-see Hollande above).
The story is not of neo-nazis on the rise but of a swelling tide of resentment as living standards plunge, bleak prospects replace hope for the future and all the “left” has to offer is gay marriage rites, re-runs of the Battle of Cable Street and sitings (and citings) of Hitler every time an angry voice calling for the energetic exercise of the sovereign power in Parliament is heard.
It is no accident that George Galloway’s triumph in Bradford was preceded by the SWP departure from RESPECT, that Lenin’s Tomb is now a regular feature of The Guardian or that Seymour was among those urging Gilad Atzmon’s publisher to pulp The Wandering Who.
The truth is that the only parties that the people need to fear are the centrists in power or acting as false “alternatives.” The electorate is waking up and is much more worthy of our trust than any of the politicians who have been part of the same world as Rupert Murdoch and his media have been in: just about anything is better than the current slide into authoritarian tyranny behind the pied pipers of Obama and Sarkozy, Hollande and Cameron, Goldman Sachs and the Pentagon.

Posted by: bevin | May 8 2012 16:09 utc | 31

“I think he’s POA in disguise”
Certainly, b could put an end to such presumptive horseshit by checking on his end.
Marmite just can’t resist this kinda shit, despite the fact, by choice, I have taken my Fukushima “obsession” elswhere.
I have no need of “disguises”, or trolling by the use of multiple screen names.
Stop making an ass of yourself, Marmite. Its not good enough for you that I voluntarily removed myself from posting here?

Posted by: PissedOffAmerican | May 8 2012 18:32 utc | 32

as @ 29: Thanks!

Posted by: ben | May 8 2012 18:46 utc | 33

marmite 1:
the sort of society that is ruled by those who create autism thru their vaccinations and refuse to acknowledge it:
http://www.ageofautism.com/

Posted by: brian | May 8 2012 19:06 utc | 34

I knew I should have put a smiley on the end of comment #4
Egads, Some people are very quick to go into full-attack mode. Perhaps the individual in question might consider getting out more? for example a good stroll in the fresh air might take the completely unecessary and rather childish abrupt-edge off of one’s discourse

Posted by: Marmite | May 8 2012 19:11 utc | 35

You can shove your smiley up your ass.

Posted by: PissedOffAmerican | May 8 2012 19:14 utc | 36

Oh well – if I had to guess I’d say somewhere between 12 and 14 yrs old

Posted by: Marmite | May 8 2012 20:05 utc | 37

@31 – it’s either soft authoritarianism, or hard authoritarianism. paper or plastic. ketchup or mustard. there will be no neither. it will be one or the other. if one fails, the other steps in. it’s good cop, bad cop. it’s tails you lose and heads you lose.

Posted by: wenis | May 8 2012 20:40 utc | 38

turning a blind eye to the results in France and Greece will come to no good..regardless of the percentages there is in some ways something chillingly familiar historically about the circumstances of these minor gains
http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/greece-elects-neo-nazis-amid-new-fears-for-euro-and-europe/
http://www.theweek.co.uk/europe/euro-debt-crisis/46728/greece-elects-neo-nazis-amid-new-fears-euro-and-europe
and as Nicolas Lebourg, an authority on the far right at the University of Perpignan, was yesterday quoted as saying: “Europe is a dry prairie waiting for someone to light amatch.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10804213

Posted by: lotsofnoise | May 8 2012 20:48 utc | 39

add this to #39 and the petri dish that holds europes still undigested past
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/may2012/ukec-m05.shtml
i just believe to deny the threat from the far right is akin to pouring petrol on that ‘dry prairie’

Posted by: lotsofnoise | May 8 2012 21:03 utc | 40

If you look at most of the opinions blogged by readers in columns on the results in europe last weekend, you will see the familiar meme of circle jerk politics in most of em.
By circle jerk politics I mean those ninnies, assisted by paid sock-puppets, who claim that the ‘hard’ left and the extreme right join up somewhere round the back beyond the edge of reason.
Virtually every post will refer to the german nazi party as the National Socialist Party with the emphasis on socialist as if just by putting the word in there the Nazis have proven they love Karl Marx.
This is a complete furphy as there is a very simple test which sorts the left from the right every time.
That is the left right across the spectrum are lovers and the right across their spectrum are haters. Lefties basically enjoy humanity in all its forms shapes, colours and sizes, while the right hates anything pretty much that doesn’t fit the mould they stepped out of.
So on the left we hate zionism but don’t give a flying fuck if the person who we are marching to the barricades with is a jew, ‘self-hating’ or otherwise. On the right they would not only bash any jews among em before they left home to go to the barricades, they would bash anyone who looked like a jew or unwhite, or ‘retarded’ or in any way different from themselves.
Ordinary peeps sense this – that leftist belief is an expression of love for humanity whilst right-wing claptrap is comes from ugliness & fear turned into hatred.
This means that for the extreme right to appeal to sufficient humans to gain power generally one of two things happens and in the case of the nazis both instances were apparent.
the first is that the left pays too much attention to the right, and wastes valuable energy and resources arguing with them instead of working directly with the people. The reasons this occurred in germany are complex partially related to the newness of the rise of fascism, people were unsure how to behave, and partially related to Russian imperialist control of a big section of the german left and stalin’s incipient paranoia.
But even before the right gets large enough to upset leftists who want to take their eyes off the ball another condition also must prevail. That is for the right to attract the support of the ruling elite and receive the sorts of resources from the rich and powerful that leftist movements must sweat blood to get their hands on.
As far as the situation in europe at the moment goes, powerful people still eschew the right because they found out in Italy Spain & Germany that a successful defeat of the left by the right often doesn’t advance their interests. Sure some will do OK but the creation of a fascist state is indeed a ‘new world order’ that does down many within the ruling elite.
Of course that will change eventually and the extreme right in europe will become accepted members of the mainstream just as they have done in amerika. It is worth noting though that even in amerika where one half of the amerikan imperial party apparatus has been taken over entirely by the hard right – the haters; professional politicians and their elite backers routinely reject most of the haters’ extreme positions in order to get the support of the people.
In fact amerika is an ideal subject for examining why it is vital that humanist political movements reject attempts to make them engage with the haters.
The reason that the left has become mired in irrelevance in amerika is precisely because the cynical professional pols and the elites who fund them can create these contrived ‘schisms’ of gay marriage, prayers in the classroom and all the rest of the irrelevant or minor issues that prevent the left from concentrating on the basic issues. basic issues like insufficiently available human needs of food, shelter, and healthcare.
That shit rarely gets talked about in any meaningful way likely to result in a worthy outcome at a national level. The pols are too busy re-litigating abortion every four years or stating their position on gay marriage or some such.
Before I get jumped on let me say I understand the concern about abortion rights but I also believe the sole reason it has become a perennial target is because humanists have taken the bait at the first sign of repeal. In doing so they have unintentionally created the ‘battle-space’ haters so enjoy blathering about.
Xtian looniness thrives when the xtians can claim they are under attack so why give the loonies any help?
European humanists would be better served if they refrained from fighting the small percentage of genuine haters in their society and instead expended that energy in working with the targets of fascist hate. Like xtianity, islam has elements of humanism contained within it and leftists would do more to advance their cause if their contact with Islamic communities encouraged followers of islam to look to those elements of their superstition than if they argue with the national front fascists or try to force Muslims to reject their customs.
George Galloway’s success in Bradford underlines the failure of most english humanist movements in this regard.

Posted by: Debs is dead | May 8 2012 22:56 utc | 41

ABC national evening news: Diane Sawyer in explaining the backstory of a photo of a little girl on a tricycle riding toward riot defense clad policemen. Turns out it was in Moscow during Sunday’s protests, and viewers were not to worry about the little girl because her parents close behind her in the crowd.
But that’s not why I’m writing about this; what caught my attention was Sawyer’s description of Putin.
Diane Sawyer said the little girl was standing up to “strongman Putin’s police.”
Yup, at ABC, Putin is now officially a “strongman,” not a president.
I will be watching to see when they talk about “strongman Bloomberg’s police.” Or maybe they’ll call the NYPD “strongman Bloomberg’s army.”
Somehow I don’t think this wording would be used without encouragement from the Obama administration…. Make that from “strongman Obama’s administration.”

Posted by: jawbone | May 8 2012 23:03 utc | 42

“We should not forget that we live in a world ruled by capitalist culture and our young people know about capitalism by the things we tell them, and we did not know it either. Our enemy knows it well. This is a war of axiology, a war that takes place in the minds of men. If they succeed in changing our thinking, if they succeed in conveying the values ​​of capitalist culture in the new generations of Cuban, then they will have won the battle. This Cuban struggle against demons is the greatest challenge of youth nowadays.”
Little fresh air

Posted by: ruralito | May 8 2012 23:03 utc | 43

neofascists and neonazis are dangerous only inasmuch as they are, generally, tools of the plutocracy (but that might become difficult to control), and particularly, tools for police intimidation and provocations against strikes and protests (and immigrants); in the Greek Nazis’ program (which I couldn’t find online, Italian TV showed a leaflet) there is the prohibition of labor unions … a neolib’s wet dream;
residual anti-Israel and anti-Jew rhetoric is overshadowed by hatred of Muslims and Arabs
generally, I’d say that this kind of radical right is a reaction to national humiliation and demotion (real or perceived), so they are here to stay if policies don’t change, but this doesn’t make them the No. 1 Enemy

Posted by: claudio | May 8 2012 23:15 utc | 44

@DiD #41: I agree; I’d stress that the left didn’t get “distracted”, it was all too happy to divert attention from issues of peace and social inequality and insulate itself from the nefarious influence of radicals and liberals while it was fighting for the “center” in our ever emptier democracies
pro-choice stances would flow naturally from a more general humanistic and tolerant approach to reality, instead of as a stand-alone issue regarding “individuals” and their “freedoms” and “duties” and “values” and other abstractions

Posted by: claudio | May 8 2012 23:26 utc | 45

The reason that the left has become mired in irrelevance in amerika is precisely because the cynical professional pols and the elites who fund them can create these contrived ‘schisms’ of gay marriage, prayers in the classroom and all the rest of the irrelevant or minor issues that prevent the left from concentrating on the basic issues. basic issues like insufficiently available human needs of food, shelter, and healthcare.
nonsense. the reason there is no “left” in the U.S. is because it sold out for the good life thanks to fdr throwing a few crumbs to save capitalism. there’s no chance of getting t back now. same goes for europe. you can’t “produce” your way out of this with a proletariat of “workers”.

Posted by: wenis | May 8 2012 23:38 utc | 46

@ruralito #43:
Thanks! That reminds me…



Willow sky, whoa, I walk and wonder why,
They say love your brother, but you will catch it when you try.


(From “Unbroken Chain” – Grateful Dead)

Posted by: Dr. Wellington Yueh | May 9 2012 0:55 utc | 47

debs #41,
you present an interesting theory. I’m wondering if you have any published research or literature to support your thesis.
I personally tend to agree with your assessment. I have no research or data to point to but the impression I am left with from being politically interested and involved for many years is that the right leaning individuals tend to be more mean spirited than the left leaning ones. I’ve also observed that the lefter the more open to discussion, compromise and even sometimes change, while the righter, the more set in one’s ideological proclivities and hardening of the orthodoxies. Having personally gravitated from far left (teens) to far right (Rand in twenties to forties) and slowly back left since, I think I have a pretty good perspective although I don’t think I was ever mean spirited or a “hater”.
I haven’t read it yet but have been tempted to order Chris Mooney’s “The Republican Brain: The Science of Why They Don’t Believe in Science (or Many Other Inconvenient Truths)” The link is to Chris’ own introduction to his book but here is an independent review by James Wilsdon, professor of science and democracy at the University of Sussex
If you could point to any other sources of interest to this idea I’d appreciate it.

Posted by: juannie | May 9 2012 1:20 utc | 48

@juannie like yours my experience of the underlying attitudes motivating political belief is strictly personal – anecdotal evidence only. Insofar as you state you spent time adhering to the beliefs of Ayn Rand, I don’t think that really equates with the fascists I was trying to identify in my post.
Ayn Rand struck me as being an enabler of the elites, rather than a motivator of the masses and therefore she might advocate that neo-fascist followers be used to try and negate the effects of an organised leftist political movement; but that would not mean she agreed with their claptrap, just that she believed it should be exploited.
I would posit that deep down all conservatives are haters to some degree; the fact that you are not Juannie, reflects your return to a humanist perspective.
Just as some humanists are found wanting when they are called on to take a risk for the common good, all conservatives eventually arrive at a point ‘where the rubber meets the road’ /cliché at which they have to decide to either be a willing participant in some egregious act against others, or to forgo their belief system.
Of course back in the days before academia shunned those who considered the world from a so-called ‘marxist perspective any number of studies will have been done on the behaviours and personal belief systems of people who hold various political views but I’m not in the habit of reading such studies. One of my personal prejudices is that the odds are high that such studies would be written in impenetrably turgid prose.
Other braver souls may choose to steel themselves against contaminants and read such studies altho I reckon that it would be difficult to research this and not have yer personal political beliefs reflect in the result.
As for the weird “you can’t “produce” your way out of this with a proletariat of “workers” since at no time did I commend such an anodyne and clichéd solution to 21st century issues, I ‘m at a loss to understand why anyone would make such a vacuous remark.

Posted by: Debs is dead | May 9 2012 3:00 utc | 49

on more general terms, there is a legitimate and “structural” dialectic, in the political space, between the imperatives of “order and stability” on one hand, and of “social justice” on the other
conservatives and progressives are just one of the many incarnations of this dialectic
order can be associated with fear, and justice with love, but with generalizing and taking it too far

Posted by: claudio | May 9 2012 5:42 utc | 50

@ DID & Claudio:
The last 3 election-cycles in the US have been full of diversions from real issues.
In both elections where Bush suppossedly ‘won’, one of the MAJOR wedge issues was ‘gay marraige’.
‘gay marraige’ also featured promenently during Obombers election campaign, and it’s rearing it’s moronic head in the current election-cycle too.
As a non-USer I found this hilarious.
Your country’s economy is going down the toilet due to the enormous financial burden of several foreign wars (all beneficial to a certtain ‘shitty little country’) and what are the fools arguing about?
Gay F’n Marraige!
seriously, the stupidity of the average US voter is beyond parody – and IMHO the ‘progressives’ are as bad as, if not worse than, the reactionary right-wingers

Posted by: Marmite | May 9 2012 10:31 utc | 51

“I would posit that deep down all conservatives are haters to some degree;”
With all due respect, This is nonsense, DID
Having spent a good deal of my politically active life around ‘progressives’ and Leftists in general, I can assure you that quite often the average Lefty is every bit as hate-filled as the average righty.
Both groups just find different targets for their hate.
But in my experience, gained in 4 different Euro-nations, they are still both as hate-filled as each other.
To claim what you are claiming is in fact to allocate a ‘moral high ground’ specifically for leftists only. This is dangerously simplistic reasoning.
No such moral high ground exists, outside the minds of leftists themselves.
Such binary thinking eventually leads to ‘the end justifies the means’ – based on the perception that YOU ( or the average ‘progressive’/leftist) are the only Moral actor in the debate.
This is very dangerous thinking indeed – and in fact, to me, it is indistinguishable from the same sort of ‘Moral-imperative’ mindset found in the worst of right-wing reactionaries.
The ‘Noble Cause’ fallacy is THE most dangerous idea known to man – and it is found equally on all sides of the political landscape – indeed you yourself have amply demonstrayted it’s existance in the Leftist political sphere, in your original comment.
At the risk of being Godwin’d 🙂 : Adolf, too, was convinced that he alone held the ‘Moral High-ground’
I’m not calling you a Nazi btw – just pointing out where your ‘Moral High Ground’ nonsense will inevitably bring you.

Posted by: Marmite | May 9 2012 10:45 utc | 52

A TED talk/video from Jonathan Haidt on the moral roots of liberals and conservatives. (Unfortunately he kinda ruins it all by quoting the excerable Samantha Power.)
“Psychologist Jonathan Haidt studies the five moral values that form the basis of our political choices, whether we’re left, right or center. In this eye-opening talk, he pinpoints the moral values that liberals and conservatives tend to honor most.”
These are ideas that Haidt develops at greater length in his new book, “The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion.”
Judging from the TED Talk, above, Haidt seems to essentially conclude that Right Wingers are in fact as moral and possibly even more moral than Liberals/Left-wingers
Anyone interested in this topic would be far better off reading the book above rather than the obviously politically-motivated book by Chris Mooney, mentioned by juannie earlier.
Mooney writes for a publication which is clearly a paid PR-shill website: DeSmog blog, which is a Pro-AGW blog run by a private professional Marketing Agency.
IMHO ‘Science’ and paid PR-shilling are a bad mix.
This is the kind of thing Pro-AGW folks like to highlight when the right does it, but for some strange reason they ignore it when their own side does it – so much for myth of Left-wing/Liberal ‘morality’, eh?
Mooney is trying to be a left-wing Ann Coulter. The Coulter/Mooney formulation is simple, direct, and lucrative. You can sell a lot of books by providing a suppossedly-reasoned, but deliciously and ridiculously, hyperbolic rant about why the other half are idiots and/or crooks.

Posted by: Marmite | May 9 2012 14:00 utc | 53

Posted on another blog by Hu Bris….
“The blog-owner in question was also a Nuclear ALarmist, like POA – and eventually banned me, for IMHO, actually knowing something about the subject, and making chicken-little alarmists like POA look like the clueless fools they so very obviously are”
“POA only returned to the blog in question once he was sure that I had no right of reply on the blog it was all posted to – and then only to crow in triumph at the silencing of an opponent – like the fine upstanding cowardly sleezebag that he is”
Funny, I guess b banned him because “actually knowing something about the subject”, (fukushima). Golly, who coulda guessed. I guess the ‘ol anti-semitism accusation was just an excuse, eh?
http://atomicinsights.com/2012/05/adam-curry-exposes-robert-alvarezs-fukushima-spent-fuel-pool-fable-on-no-agenda.html#comment-17702

Posted by: PissedOffAmerican | May 9 2012 14:02 utc | 54

“Other braver souls may choose to steel themselves against contaminants and read such studies altho I reckon that it would be difficult to research this and not have yer personal political beliefs reflect in the result.”
That’s one of the weirdest statements I’ve yet read on this blog.
Essentially you appear to be saying that reading studies such as the ones you mentioned might actually cause one to change one’s mind – that one’s ideological ‘purity’ might be ‘tainted’ by reading such studies.
Sounds, to me at least, more like a rallying call in favour of willful ignorance than anything else.

Posted by: Marmite | May 9 2012 14:06 utc | 55

Quite intense reporting from Libya: In Libya, the Captors Have Become the Captive
Reminds me on Orwell’s Animal Farm

Posted by: b | May 9 2012 15:48 utc | 56

@ b
A direct result of the Liberal/progressive love-affair with ‘Humanitarian Intervention’.
A finer example of the perfidy of the so-called ‘Moral High-ground’ lately so beloved of the ‘official/mainstream’ Left.
Another arrow in the corpse of the ridiculous notion of a (self-constructed) ‘Moral High-ground’ being the natural home of the Left

Posted by: Marmite | May 9 2012 17:03 utc | 57

Other braver souls may choose to steel themselves against contaminants and read such studies altho I reckon that it would be difficult to research this and not have yer personal political beliefs reflect in the result.

I have no problem with that statement. There is a growing body of research that not only our conscious minds but our unconscious preconceptions affect both our emotional response to and our beliefs about sensory input. Our perceptions are erroneous probably all of the time. They are only approximations of objective reality. One can predict with a high degree of accuracy just what a person’s response to a contentious subject (such as global climate change of nuclear dangers for example) will be by knowing their ideological beliefs. I have been aware of this since earlier life studies in psychology and later inner explorations but Leonard Mlodinow’s book Subliminal: How Your Unconscious Mind Rules Your Behavior [REVIEW] surprised me by how much all of our perceptions are in error so much of the time.
An aside to POA,
A mild form of denial to these ego disturbing psychological findings is arrogance and rock hard certainty in one’s beliefs and opinions. A stronger one, and one that I would suggest is pathological, is hubris. There is no possibility of civil and rational discussions with such individuals. You’re just beating your head against a bolder much larger and harder than your flesh and bone. I did however enjoy reading your rejoinders over there.

Posted by: juannie | May 9 2012 21:32 utc | 58

it’s almost as if you lot have never even heard of the Freudian notion of ‘projection’.
highly amuzing to watch
I have no problem with that statement.
No – and I doubt anyone here ever thought you would have a problem with it. That you’re comfortable enough publicly admitting your determination to keep a firmly closed mind is a little surprising though.
No doubt many people feel as you do, but few a foolish enough to actually admit it in public.
It’s fairly obvious by now that you live in terror of reading anything with which you might disagree, or that might challange your certainties.

Posted by: Marmite | May 9 2012 23:27 utc | 59

On the one hand you say that Liberal/Leftists such as yourself are ‘open to new experiences’ and then immediately prove that the opposite is in fact true, by declaring that merely reading something that would challange your beliefs is anathema to you.
Juannie – have you ever heard of Irony?

Posted by: Marmite | May 9 2012 23:30 utc | 60

Irony or not my statement obviously wasn’t articulated clearly enough, I was trying to say that the findings in such ‘research’ would merely inform us of the researcher’s own political beliefs. I didn’t say I wouldn’t want to read something which challenged my own beliefs. As it happens I enjoy reading well-argued contrary points of view, altho like others I don’t derive pleasure from reading hateful and/or fraudulent claptrap.
I wrote upthread I believe studies on the character of persons of particular political beliefs would most likely have been written ‘back in the day’ when left wing researchers were tolerated in academia. In other words the odds are high that the research would come from a leftist perspective, but I wouldn’t wanna read the stuff because I think it would likely be badly constructed dialectic which wouldn’t inform beyond alerting readers to the political proclivities of the author/s.
That is harsh and probably unreasonable, but life is short & I prefer laughing to wallowing. Which is why this debate won’t go further. On my part at least.
The original post was made in the hope we could stimulate a bit of discussion about the nature of political involvement and hopefully come up with some viable ideas about instituting real & lasting change to a corrupt & inhumane society. Yet here we are again – just a few wrestling over a side issue.
I realise it seems strange to advocate a form of humanism, & not believe that most of the disciplines that are corralled under the subject heading “Humanities” can ever be studied using the sort of scientific rigour that need be applied to most of the disciplines that corral under the “Sciences” heading.
Yes I’m being deliberately vague here, altho boxes, phials of poison and cats are items that come to the forefront of consciousness when considering this.
One reason for equivocation is to avoid affront to anyone who believes their humanity’s objectivity has been called into question. I was trying to make broad observations based on what I’ve experienced. Another reason is there are a few areas of study in humanities-type subjects where scientific method can be objectively applied.
As for the contention that rightists believe in what they are doing I don’t believe I ever said they didn’t. What I said was pretty self-evident really; that humanists (which is my preferred term for those who want to live in an inclusive and tolerant society where the wealth is shared) are people who feel affection for other humans, enjoy human company regardless of the person’s character, gender, race or other specificity, at least until a particular human shows him/herself to be completely unworthy of that admiration.
Rightists or conservatives on the other hand are happier in a society where sections of humanity are left out of the community because of some perceived failing of the particular group those peeps are believed to belong to. To do that conservatives have to be able to hate a group for what they believe they are; for my mind making the conservatives intolerant haters.
However when it comes down to professional pols – for wont of a better term, I’d reckon that group were comprised almost entirely of ‘haters’ or at the very least sociopaths incapable of feeling love or hate no matter which side they claim to be on.

Posted by: Debs is dead | May 10 2012 2:05 utc | 61

I guess some sort of apology for misconstruing the intent of your earlier post is in order.
Thank you for your attempt at further clarification.

Posted by: Marmite | May 10 2012 13:36 utc | 62

I seem to be always late. Anyway.
About analyses like Haidt’s above, 52, Marmite.
All these kinds of attempts at understanding political attitudes, beliefs, opinions, voting etc. etc. are all basically individualistic in nature, and follow Anglo-Saxon empiricism and a model of man as ‘an island’ (in a sea-scape, OK.)
So they go on to conclude that Republicans have stiffer lips and Democrats eat more ‘adventurous’ food, to be really trivial. It is men are from Mars and women from Venus kind of stuff. I’m not dismissing it entirely, but it seems to feed more into group differences than anything, and can’t possibly illuminate political attitudes. (Marmite goes on to contest, just to be clear, I’m not dissing a poster.)
This approach completely ignores group belonging (which might be anything, e.g. Black, young, rich, State worker, immigrant, etc. and crossed and multiple), group cohesion, and so on, which is the no. 1 driver. Ppl are not alone, ever, they have roots, they have friends, they occupy a position in society.
Second, left aside (and possibly the no 2 driver) is family tradition (mingles with group cohesion), family structure and interaction. For ex. ppl in nuclear families (even if truncated) and ppl growing up in extended families develop different pol. attitudes on the left-right spectrum. This last clearly accounts for the Greek vote, skewed to the ‘left’, with (say?) lonely male voters going for Golden Dawn. It also accounts for Sarkozy conserving support in regions (east and south-east) that are trad. more ‘Northern’, more individualistic, have less supportive families, push and demand individual success, etc. This is just one example, there are *many* others.
Moral values are elaborated in childhood, they are not some arcane, mysterious property of the ‘brain’ of the individual.

Posted by: Noirette | May 10 2012 18:30 utc | 63

Marmite,
I was initially not going to respond to your #59-60 because originally my perception was that you were a belligerent shit disturber who neither wanted to understand what I was trying to convey in my post nor would you honestly evaluate anything further I had to say. However your “sort of” gracious apology to debs gave me the hope that I had evaluated you wrongly and you might indeed be sincere and interested in more than further reinforcing a bloated ego. So I will try to elucidate just what I was trying to say and reply to some of the points that I think you were trying to make.
Not only have I heard of projection but I have studied in a Freudian psychology course in graduate school and have been involved in both group and individual therapy to try to understand and be able to identify it in myself and others. That doesn’t mean that I am “cured” from the mechanism of projection, it just means that I have some limited insight into the psychology of projection and try to be alert for it occurrence, especially in myself. Not always an easy accomplishment.
Quite to the contrary of what you state, I am openly admitting that I do not have all the answers and am willing to examine and question my opinions and beliefs. And like debs I fully enjoy reading or hearing opposing points of view as long as they aren’t being preached or shoved down my throat. Interestingly, debs has, to a large extent been instrumental in my exploration of leftist/socialist thinking. My first such exploration was into the non-culturally acceptable history of Eugene Debs. An enlightening partial awakening. Others old patrons of this bar similarly stimulated my thinking into areas where I was culturally blind. And I heartily and even fondly include slothrop in this category. No, I do not live in terror of reading or hearing anything of which I might disagree, but I consider it a potential learning opportunity. You see, my primary motivation in life is to learn and to grow and to hopefully eventually transcend my frailties and errors. Which brings me to your second post where you say “Liberal/Leftists such as yourself are ‘open to new experiences’ and then immediately prove that the opposite is in fact true, by declaring that merely reading something that would challenge your beliefs is anathema to you.”
I don’t believe I ever either stated or implied either of the quotes you attribute to me. If you think I did, please point it out to me. I am not and have never considered myself a “Liberal/Leftist”. My main ideological orientation is rightish conservative with a leftish civil liberties bent. I have never been able to find a political label which I have been comfortable with although Libertarian came closer than any. Notice I say “came” past tense. Yes, I have heard of irony but if your insinuation was anywhere near correct, I would have used the word hypocrisy, not irony. And although I am sure I have been hypocritical at times in my life I do my honest utmost to avoid that unsavory characteristic.
Going back to the statement that I didn’t have a problem with: “Other braver souls may choose to steel themselves against contaminants and read such studies altho I reckon that it would be difficult to research this and not have yer personal political beliefs reflect in the result”, I think you and I read (preceived) it in an entirely different way. I read it as not one of us has the ability to not have our personal beliefs and biases influence how we perceive and interpret information. And I definitely include myself. I know I am as susceptible as any other human, however I do recognize that and try to moderate my readings accordingly. I don’t believe most humans are aware of this well established psychological proclivity and accordingly go into denial. If you would carefully reread my #58 you will notice that I state “…how much all of our perceptions are in error so much of the time”. Again, I included myself quite explicitly by my use of the word “all”.
Marmite, I hope you can find it in your heart and psyche to understand where I am coming form. I consider this blog a exceptionally rare opportunity for meaningful cyber communication where, in debs words, “…hope we could stimulate a bit of discussion about the nature of political involvement and hopefully come up with some viable ideas about instituting real & lasting change to a corrupt & inhumane society.” Hurray debs!! I just hope we of sincerity here who appreciate that sentiment, can mostly avoid “wrestling over side issues.”

Posted by: juannie | May 10 2012 21:00 utc | 64

“No, I do not live in terror of reading or hearing anything of which I might disagree, but I consider it a potential learning opportunity. You see, my primary motivation in life is to learn and to grow and to hopefully eventually transcend my frailties and errors.”
recent behaviour by you in relation to certain side-issues would suggest otherwise, but nonetheless I’ll accept your explanation as is and accept that it was offered sincerely. It’s personally been my experience that on ceretain subjects you have a closed mind. It’s actually been my experience that rather than read and respond rationally to opposing views, for which there is supporting evidence, you’d much rather run around making silly and completely unproavable accusations. But then all of us have blind-spots – perhaps that just happens to yours?

Posted by: Marmite | May 11 2012 4:39 utc | 65

@ Noirette
Generally I’m not given to posting simplistic ‘Men are from mars . . . ” shit, but juannies post of a politically motivated version of the same, by an author who is essentially nothing but a paid-PR-Shill, required a counter, in my opinion
Haidt’s thesis is definitely simplistic and possibly just down right stupid but it’s still infinitely more complicated than Mooney’s moronic purely political crap

Posted by: Marmite | May 11 2012 4:45 utc | 66

cobweb
four grey women
Need Poverty Worry Guilt
lie in wait far away
a person is born
grows up
starts a family
builds a home
these four phantoms
lie in wait
hidden in the foundation
they build
a second home for him
a labyrinth
in a blind alley
he lives loves
prays and works
fills the home with hope
tears laughter
and fright
the four grey women
play hide-and-seek
with him
they lurk in chests
closets bookcases
they feed on gloves dust
mothballs swampy ground
eat books
fade mousegrey
in the icy moonlight
sit on paper flowers
the children clap their hands
trying to kill a cloths moth and some other moth
but the moths turn in silence
silence into music
the four grey women lie in wait
the person invites
other people
to christenings funerals
weddings and wakes
silver and gold anniversaries
uninvited
through the keyhole
enter the four grey women
first to appear is Guilt
behind her looms Worry
slowly Need grows
Poverty bares her teeth
the home turns into a cobweb
voices groans
gnashing of teeth
and rattling can be heard
awakened gods
drive off
pesky humans
and yawn
written by Tadeusz Rozewicz from ‘grey area’ 2002
included in ‘Sobbing Superpower’ translated by
Joanna Trzeciak, published Norton & Co.
ISBN 978 0 393 06779 8, 2011

Posted by: lotsofnoise | May 11 2012 13:20 utc | 67

Alabama’s shakin Hold On

Posted by: Debs is dead | May 12 2012 3:53 utc | 68

Tweet from a Yemeni
BaFana3 For the 1st time. | #Yemen : Air force planes drop leaflets in Abyan – ask citizens to stay away from ALL Al Qaeda-held locations.
Mass bombing will begin in 3, 2, 1, —

Posted by: b | May 12 2012 17:38 utc | 69

Great song DiD!
We just discovered them a few months ago. The singer is a powerhouse In the Tina Turner/Janis Joplin tradition. Former mail carrier. And they’re based just an hour north of us.

Posted by: ran | May 12 2012 17:49 utc | 70

My hit, before I read your post ran, was Janis. She really rocks with an exuberance that is reminiscent of Janice. Never heard of them before but now I’m aware.
Salute did!

Posted by: juannie | May 12 2012 20:55 utc | 71

re@69 Yemen – U.S. Drone Strikes Kill 10 Suspected Militants in Yemen
Militant = anyone killed in a drone strike

Two air strikes destroyed three vehicles and killed 10 militants in the eastern oil-producing Maarib province and near the border of the southeastern Shabwa province, the Defense Ministry website said, without elaborating.
Yemen and Washington do not acknowledge U.S. drone attacks.
Local officials told Reuters the strikes were believed to have been carried out by U.S. drones and up to 12 militants were killed, including an Egyptian and two Saudis.

Residents said Yemeni air force planes dropped leaflets on Saturday urging civilians to leave areas held by militants targeted by the army offensive, prompting a mass exodus from parts of Abyan.
Fifteen insurgents as well as five soldiers and an army officer were killed in fighting on Saturday, a military official who did not want to be identified told Reuters.

But tribal leaders in parts of Yemen where drone attacks aimed at AQAP have killed civilians say the air strikes are turning more and more people against the government and the United States.

In March, the United Nations refugee agency UNHCR warned that Yemen was facing a new wave of internal displacement as tens of thousands of civilians fled tribal clashes in the north and fighting with militants in the south.

They are turning Yemen into a new Somalia or Waziristan.

Posted by: b | May 13 2012 6:39 utc | 72

The Golden Boys Mondo Bossa -una outra vez

Posted by: wenis | May 13 2012 15:09 utc | 73

Warpaint – Majesty

Posted by: wenis | May 14 2012 17:02 utc | 74

This is what passes for ‘economic analysis’ now in Germany.
Greece Can No Longer Delay Euro Zone Exit
The conclusion of the article are a joke. There is nothing to save Spain and Italy after a Greek forced exit. Both will be obliterated on the debt markets the second that happen. Both will see a run from their banks. Then France and other countries with similar debt ratings will replace Spain and Italy as the next on target.
And of course the implicit racism on the whole article is a ‘bit’ distasteful. Even when around the third part they start to blame the politicians, even as those are the main allies of the ‘good paying europeans’, but keep asking to punish even more the citizens.

Posted by: ThePaper | May 14 2012 17:16 utc | 75

Re The Paper 75
I doubt that a Greek forced exit will necessarily lead to a collapse of the European economy. There may be repercussions in southern Europe, but the more one moves north, the more the economies are balanced, with strength in production (except of course in UK, which risks collapse at any moment).
The essential problem is of course global, production is in the East, finance finds its hidey-holes in any country with less tax.
World government is the only solution in the end. That will come but who knows when?

Posted by: alexno | May 14 2012 19:40 utc | 76

I assume that b and others will have interesting input regarding this bit of good news from Macedonia, with detailed links.

Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | May 15 2012 5:33 utc | 77

Crazy thug rougue mafia governments..

Posted by: Alexander | May 15 2012 8:43 utc | 78

Whocouldhaveknown: Concern grows over jihadist numbers in eastern Libya

Posted by: b | May 15 2012 19:23 utc | 79

The west (France, UK and even Quatar) were even at the planning of the revolution in Libya working with jihadis and Al-Quaida. And they were claiming not to know that the jihadists had a islamist agenda, saying they had agreed to the democratic rules. Profile: Libyan rebel commander Abdel Hakim Belhadj

Posted by: Alexander | May 15 2012 21:14 utc | 80

Statens Straalevaern, in Norway, have many places in Norwegian mountains, Jotunheimen, recently measured 70 kilobequerel/m2, which is higher than allowed for grassing in meatproduction. Apparently, more places in Norway still has too high levels for foodproduction 26 years after Chernobyl, and as measurements progress, warnings for more areas will be issued.

Posted by: Alexander | May 18 2012 17:04 utc | 81

70 Kbq/m2 cecium that is

Posted by: Alexander | May 19 2012 8:34 utc | 82

I’m tuned in to the SpaceX web site to watch the launch of the Dragon cargo craft, which should take place in about 15 minutes. Here’s the link:
SpaceX WebCast
It’s not terribly spectacular, but it’s a significant turning point in which space travel is switching over from government agency to private enterprise. This will be a good thing and a bad thing. I’m optimistic that the good will be a more permanent presence in space, without the petulant budgetary axe hanging overhead. The bad…don’t wanna think about that right now! 🙂

Posted by: Dr. Wellington Yueh | May 19 2012 8:44 utc | 83

No launch! Engines shut down right at the zero mark. They’ll try again in a few days, I suppose.

Posted by: Dr. Wellington Yueh | May 19 2012 9:01 utc | 84

The Total gas blowout from Elgin platform in the Nort-sea has been stopped by injecting mud into the leak. Total started the operation succeded with the operation two days ago, after the leak had dropped from 200 000 M3/day to 50 000 M3/day. Luckily the pressure of the leaking gas had been subsiding, and the injection of mud seem to have successfully stopped the remaining leak. The Planned drilling of two releaf-wells has been canceled, though one of the two had got well underway, but thankfully were not needed.

Posted by: Alexander | May 19 2012 10:53 utc | 85

If true, this dispatch (picked up from a comment at Pat Lang’s SST site) regarding possible Israeli deployment of commandos in Cyprus is just what is needed to calm nerves regarding the stability of Greece and Turkey’s possible future membership in the EC.

Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | May 21 2012 5:24 utc | 86

@Hannah – the Turks will be steaming about that …

Posted by: b | May 21 2012 17:41 utc | 87