Libyan Salafis Killed In Syria
Borzou Daragahi is the Middle East and North Africa correspondent for the Financial Times. He just tweeted:
borzou Borzou Daragahi
Wow - Misurata revolutionaries announce combat deaths of three #Libyan fighters in #Syria on.fb.me/z8a6kV
This is the first confirmation of what former CIA agent Philip Giraldi reported back in December:
Unmarked NATO warplanes are arriving at Turkish military bases close to Iskenderum on the Syrian border, delivering weapons from the late Muammar Gaddafi’s arsenals as well as volunteers from the Libyan Transitional National Council who are experienced in pitting local volunteers against trained soldiers, a skill they acquired confronting Gaddafi’s army.
Giraldi, without naming any sources, also claimed:
French and British special forces trainers are on the ground, assisting the Syrian rebels while the CIA and U.S. Spec Ops are providing communications equipment and intelligence to assist the rebel cause, enabling the fighters to avoid concentrations of Syrian soldiers.
The obvious attempt of regime-change the U.S., its European followers and its Arab stooges are engineering in their service to Israel, could eventually push Syria into the direction of a civil war. The Israelis believe that a weakened Syria will be good for them.
But, like nearly always, the blowback of such a campaign is likely larger than the gain and in the end will disappoint the instigators.
Posted by b on February 6, 2012 at 17:56 UTC | Permalink
Yeah I read about 600 Libyan rebels sent via Turkey back in Nov so this news is not surprising.
Nov 29th 2011:
The Libyan government apparently wants to share its successful experience of overthrowing the Gaddafi regime with like-minded Syrians. It has sent 600 of its troops to support local militants against the Assad regime, according to media reports. The fighters have joined the Free Syria Army, the militant group carrying out attacks on government forces in Syria, reports the Egyptian news website Al-Ray Al-Arabi citing its sources. The report says the troops entered Syria through Turkish territory.
Source: http://rt.com/news/libya-syria-fighters-smuggled-475/
Also it has been the Misurata rebels that have been causing trouble in Tripoli clashing with the local Tripoli-based militias on and off. So likely the coup leaders in Libya are quiet happy to let these rebels be shipped over to Syria so they don't have to deal with them.
Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Feb 6 2012 18:44 utc | 2
No real shock, there. And at this point, civil war and/or foreign intervention is pretty much inevitable. Obama's even reviving George W. Bush's "coalition of the willing."
@1:
A variety of blowback isn't hard to imagine. For Israel, the first and most obvious blowback is that the Syrian border becomes free group for Islamist or Palestinians groups to mount raise or rocket attacks on Israeli position. For Jordan, the destabilization is likely to spread there and prompt US/Saudi/Israeli intervention to prevent governmental collapse. For Iraq, who can even guess the consequences. For Turkey, the consequences will be costs, refugees, and an effective free operation zone for Kurds in northern Syria to organize.
Posted by: Bill | Feb 6 2012 19:19 utc | 4
Unknown Unknowns Care to elaborate, b? - As you name says, there are unknown unknowns :-).
Revolutionary situations, if it comes to that in Syria, are not controllable. Assad may well win (my guess) and be stronger after it. Other folks may win. Some we do not yet expect. Who knows how they will react towards Israel? The insurgency may "spill". Jordan is especially in danger but so is Turkey. Turkey has some 3+ million Alewis - how will the react when the MB or Salafists threaten to take over Syria? What will they do if Assad calls on them for help?
If Assad is really endangered Hizbullah will get involved. Those guys have shown that they know how to fight.
The aim of Israel is a weakened Syria busy with itself. They may achieve the weakened part. The busy with itself will be an illusion. Anyone new who wants to rule Syria will need some national credit which will come from re-wining the Golan heights. Assad may go for that as may anyone else if he really gets kicked out.
There are so many things that could get "wrong" with this that some of them are very likely to occur. None of them in Israel's favor.
Now who is the dog and what is the tail? never mind a head?
Is Pakistan an ally of the US and of the Taliban? Does that mean the US is allied to the Taliban?
Is Saudia Arabia an ally of the US or of China?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204468004577164742025285500.html
"RIYADH, Saudi Arabia—Top oil exporter Saudi Arabia said Monday it inked an agreement with China to enhance cooperation between the two countries in the development and use of atomic energy for peaceful purposes.
The deal, signed Sunday, sets a legal framework that strengthens scientific, technological and economic cooperation between Riyadh and Beijing, according to a joint statement. It seeks to enable cooperation in areas like maintenance and development of nuclear power plants and research reactors, manufacturing and supply of nuclear fuel elements."
and ... are rising oil prices good for the US economy?
no the outcome is completely unknown. the only certainty is that it will be not in the interest of the people who are going to die in this conflict.
Posted by: somebody | Feb 6 2012 20:29 utc | 6
I suppose the many thousands of supporters of the insurgency who make up rank-and-file of middling sorts of Syrian citizens don't really count as it's the appearance of six Libyan "salafis" who are moving the country towards "Civil War."
b's current favorite Arab fascist dictator won't survive this one. Pity.
Posted by: slothrop | Feb 6 2012 21:19 utc | 7
Slops:
'I suppose the many thousands of supporters of the insurgency who make up rank-and-file of middling sorts of Syrian citizens don't really count as it's the appearance of six Libyan "salafis" who are moving the country towards "Civil War."
as opposed to the millions of rank-and-file supporters of the syrian govt...as with Libya, and its 'rats', your syrian rats needs outside aid to pursue their goal of turning a secular state into an islamic theocracy, led by the sinister Muslim brotherhood.
Posted by: brian | Feb 6 2012 21:30 utc | 8
there's only one reason why b is making an issue out of the Syrian crisis: Assad & assorted baath party adherents oppose the US.
One must always remember that b is above all else an apologist for totalitarian dictatorships opposing "Empire." b is also a weird russophile which also figures into the "analysis." Add it all up. You pretty much get a picture of the Arab world through b's eyes which is ruthlessly contemptuous of brave persons who stand up to political tyranny.
Posted by: slothrop | Feb 6 2012 22:18 utc | 9
Also, need to remember that b is almost always wrong about the outcomes of this long revolution in the Arab diaspora. According to b the US supply lines in Iraq were supposed to be cut off, and the US would suffer a terrible military defeat. Qaddafi is also supposed to remain alive. Syria was never supposed to enjoy a an "Arab Spring." According to b!and the elections in Iran were of course fair, even though the mullahs would never allow themselves to be unseated popular election. Etc. and etc.
Also, my favorite b misfire is his prediction that the regional economies would decouple and the US would essentially be isolated in its own interminable recession. Hallelujah!
Posted by: slothrop | Feb 6 2012 22:24 utc | 10
"You pretty much get a picture of the Arab world through b's eyes which is ruthlessly contemptuous of brave persons who stand up to political tyranny."
Except of course to the brave persons who stand up to tyranny in Oman, Yemen, the Gulf Emirates,notably Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and Jordan where the US and its satraps back the most ruthless rulers in the Arab world. And have done so for many years. These are countries in which chattel slavery still exists and millions of immigrant workers live in the most appalling conditions, without rights and subject to extreme cruelty.
Opposing the worst elements in international relations, responsible for the great majority of violent deaths suffered, for massacres in Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq and many other places, needs no apology. Bad though the Syrian regime may be it is a monument to virtue by comparison with Murder Inc headquartered in Washington. And most of the world knows it.
Posted by: bevin | Feb 6 2012 22:31 utc | 11
I said "russophile" which doesn't really capture the essence of b's political ideology, given his bizarre defenses in the past of Stalin.
Probably the best way to characterize b: a German nationalist & him anti-globalist anti-humanitarian economic libertarian, anti-US, neo-Stalinist cargo-ship fetishist. His blog is probably paid for by Somali pirates.
Posted by: slothrop | Feb 6 2012 22:39 utc | 12
And who are you paid by to bash b, sloth? That's all you post here anymore. You got a dementia which inhibits you from even trying to post anything of value? Just attacks on b? And why do you even bother? Do you really believe anyone here gives a rat's ass what you say? I'm glad b doesn't just trash your posts because it gives us insight into how pathetic the assholes in the world, which you exemplify, really are.
Posted by: juannie | Feb 6 2012 23:13 utc | 13
#5: good comments regarding Alevis in Turkey, but one must be careful here. The much larger community called Alevis, who are secular, follow a heterodox version of islam which is sufi-influenced, must be distinguished with the much smaller [possibly less than 3 million but not much less] "Nusayri"s who are ethnically Arab or mixed and live in the border areas close to Syria.
I really don't think Turkey wants to get involved militarily but Erdogan and Davutoglu's previous actions and words have led to a very uncomfortable dilemma for Turkey as the conflict escalates.
#10: long revolution in the Arab "diaspora"? The lands you are talking about have been Arab majority for more than 1000 years!
Posted by: kodlu | Feb 6 2012 23:32 utc | 14
slothrop,
You're every resentful, spoiled rotten, self indulgent adolescent's picture of himself.
Except you're insane while they're just mostly confused by their rampaging hormones.
Posted by: arthurdecco | Feb 7 2012 1:45 utc | 16
slops claims B is almost always wrong..when its the reverse...
===========
Borzou Daraghi is supposed to be a correspondant for the Financial Times, yet he hardly read as an objective journalist:
borzou #Libyans heading to #Syria out of passionate pan-Arab hatred 4 Bashar (& yeah, continuing war addiction) not because of payments from Qatar
30 minutes ago
borzou In Tripoli, hard to overstate level of passionate #Libya support for #Syria uprising & hatred for Bashar, who coddled Gaddafi til last sec
30 minutes ago
======
This pan-arab hatred for Assad is not true…But it is interesting that the usual dynamic of conquest is at work yet again: the conquerors get drunk with power and a sense of invincibility…even if they are unwittingly aiding Great Satan.Its not 'pan-arabs' who are out to destroy syrias secular state…its fundamentalist Sunni salafis. Clearly Daraghi is siding with the Salafis ie with fundamentalist islamic terrorists, one of whos formulators is the man behind Saudi Arabia: Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab (of Wahabism infamy)
Many Salafis today point also to Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab as the first figure in the modern era to push for a return to the religious practices of the salaf as-salih or "righteous predecessors".[25] His evangelizing in 18th century Saudi Arabia was a call to return to what were the practices of the early generations of Muslims.
His works, especially Kitab at-Tawhid, are still widely read by Salafis around the world today, and the majority of Salafi scholars still reference his works frequently.[26] After his death, his views flourished under his descendants, the Al ash-Sheikh, and the generous financing of the House of Saud and initiated the current worldwide Salafi movement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafi
NOTE the very same salafis being promoted and coddled by the Financial Times' correspondant and the US, is opposed elsewhere in Islam:
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-11-27/lucknow/30446920_1_india-ulama-indian-muslims-madrassas
So we have another link to saudi arabia, and thence to great Satan, as the forces behind the war on Syria….This is being ignored by the Financial times
Posted by: brian | Feb 7 2012 2:43 utc | 17
'there's only one reason why b is making an issue out of the Syrian crisis: Assad & assorted baath party adherents oppose the US.
One must always remember that b is above all else an apologist for totalitarian dictatorships opposing "Empire."'
trust slops to turn things upside down... he means "totalitarian dictatorships" (syria and Libya are secular people centered states) and US is an Empire..no rabbit ears!
why is slops always defendnig imperial aggression, AND totalitarian dictators that hand from US private parts?
US friendly Totalitarian dictatorships:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2844.htm
Posted by: brian | Feb 7 2012 2:55 utc | 18
b,
Thanks for your response.
I guess you have your own resident troll here too :)
Means you're doing something right. (I love the way he puts Empire in quotes.)
Keep up the excellent work.
Posted by: Unknown Unknowns | Feb 7 2012 3:04 utc | 19
this here sums it all up in a cynical way...
Russians believe that the Saudis have “duped” Americans into supporting Islamist-influenced uprisings, Mark Katz, a Russia and Middle East expert at George Mason University, said in a recent interview.
Russian anger at the United States is further rooted in the belief that once the Americans pull out of Afghanistan, Russia will be at far greater risk from an upheaval there than the United States, because of its proximity.
This is not the first last-ditch effort by Moscow to head off Western intervention. In 1990, Yevgeny Primakov met with then-Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein in an effort to forestall Operation Desert Storm. In 1999, Primakov went to Belgrade to meet with Slobodan Milosevic on the same errand, as NATO was preparing the air war over Kosovo. Neither effort succeeded. This time, writes Dmitry Trenin of the Moscow Carnegie Center, in Foreign Affairs, Russia might have gotten results — if it hadn’t waited so long to get interested in Syria’s problems.
Posted by: somebody | Feb 7 2012 6:55 utc | 20
the saudis havent duped the americans....the israelis have...yet again
Posted by: brian | Feb 7 2012 13:33 utc | 21
"You pretty much get a picture of the Arab world through b's eyes which is ruthlessly contemptuous of brave persons who stand up to political tyranny."
Just like the Taliban in Afghnistan standing up to fascist dictator Hamid Karzai installed by the US government. Have you heard that the civilian death toll of the afghan rebellion is reaching an all time high and that the Hamid Karzai regime will collpase once US troops pulls out?
Posted by: nikon | Feb 7 2012 14:01 utc | 22
"There's a lot of money to be made supplying uncle sam with the tools of the 'trade'." Country Joe
Following the money, I suppose the big winners here are those who sell warplanes, bombs, guns, ammo--maybe even replacement aircraft carriers. I suppose darth cheney wasn't lying when he spoke of war for the next hundred years. Sad... especially when far too many keep paying taxes to the warmonger gubbermints and banking with the 'too big to bail' banksters.
"Also, my favorite b misfire is his prediction that the regional economies would decouple and the US would essentially be isolated in its own interminable recession. Hallelujah!"
Us economy will experience a lost decade, the recent positive economic indicator was juiced up by 1 trillion dollar of stimulus spending.
Posted by: nikon | Feb 7 2012 14:24 utc | 24
brian @ 18: "why is slops always defendnig imperial aggression, AND totalitarian dictators that hand from US private parts?"
Because he/she is paid to do so.
Posted by: ben | Feb 7 2012 14:51 utc | 25
I am most intrigued by remembering that we sent many people to Syria to be tortured. The operational cooperation between the Assad Regime and us to do that is high. As was hinted, Assad has kept Syria a peaceful, and quiet neighbor. (an Iraqi friend reports that even in Syria's mosques, women are allowed to fully intermingle with men until the very moment of prayer--a fairly liberal position for observant Muslims)
But, through the decades we've always had the Syrians sold to us as dangerous, untrustworthy and hostile to Israel. I think the reality was known and closely held. But in Israel it seems we see a real divide. I figured cooler heads would prevail relative to Iran and to a lesser extent, Syria. And, perhaps we should keep the two countries coupled in our minds. But, we've seen many high level Israeli officials speaking out publicly against the hostile position towards IRan. Are they speaking up, cause they fear matters are spinning out of control? How strong is our command and control--it's one thing to think of "black flag" operations being ordered from on high; but why do we assume everything is so ordered?
In college, for the Peace and Justice people, we'd build a shanty in the quad to raise awareness for homelessness. The rednecks at our school would defile if not set fire to the shanty, cause that's what passes for humor in Texas. Anyway, after we built this years model, we were drinking a couple of beers, and got to thinking. Why should we wait for idiot rednecks to come mark that thing up? We should beat em to the punch. So, we wrote the most callous, redneck inspired ideas we could think of. Nothing particularly inflammatory, but you know, we needed to stir the drink. That wasn't ordered, it was our own doing.
Now, could it be that Israel is spit, not in regular troops, hell, they don't even have to be affiliated with the gov't or military to spark a fire. I mean, it's not radically ambitious to send Syrians some guns, some training or handy maps, radios, and other encrypted communications equipment is still easily done beneath the radar. Sheldon Adelson has given Newt $10 million, what kind of army of mercenaries could he wrangle together?
We may be containing a hydra headed monster that no one actually controls, but many can disrupt.
Posted by: scottindallas | Feb 7 2012 16:12 utc | 26
people are beginning to think of the many unknowns ...
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israeli-officials-terrorists-may-get-syria-s-weapons-1.411439#.TzFSWyhV21I.blogger
I suppose Hezbollah already got what the want, however ...
Posted by: somebody | Feb 7 2012 16:50 utc | 27
Assad is shelling his own people with bombs. And the response from the halfwits here is that the Syrian people deserve the treatment because they watch too much al Jazeera. Or something.
Not to mention the staggering stupidity in the claim that the US somehow prefers pro-Iran Islamists to the usual status quo dictators. for once, US foreign policy in the region is in an incompetently semi-consistent way in support of Arab democracy.
Here is the world according to b: Saddam forever! Qaddafi forever! Putin forever! Medieval theocratic mullahs forever! Boots stomping human faces. This is b's preferred order of global humanity, evidently.
Posted by: slothrop | Feb 7 2012 18:09 utc | 28
Does anybody ever asked themselves why an intermittently unemployed engineer from Hamburg devotes so much of his time obsessing over banal trajectories of American life and politics? What a big waste of energy. And he's doing this as his own country proceeds to rip Europe apart and send the rest of the globe hurtling into irremediable economic collapse.
Pretty weird.
Posted by: slothrop | Feb 7 2012 18:14 utc | 29
slothrop, are you serious?
Assad is shelling his own people with bombs
All modern states were build against part of the population's will; then whoever wins is expected to set the rules of the game and everyone (except in Israel) is a citizen with equal rights, except for separatists and opponents of the fundamental pact around which the powers that be constituted the state: such elements are considered foreign-sponsored terrorists for the state (any state), and "freedom fighters" for that state's enemies;
And the response from the halfwits here is that the Syrian people deserve the treatment because they watch too much al Jazeera. Or something.
You should come at the bar to have a drink, instead you come here already drunk
Not to mention the staggering stupidity in the claim that the US somehow prefers pro-Iran Islamists to the usual status quo dictators
That's the infallible rule by which the British, the French and the Us have always abided. The *only* exception were the Talibans.
for once, US foreign policy in the region is in an incompetently semi-consistent way in support of Arab democracy
You will be able to say that when the Us will support an insurgency in Bahrein, Saudi Arabia or Jordan (and respect the Palestinians' democratic vote, which Hamas won)
Here is the world according to b: Saddam forever! Qaddafi forever! Putin forever! Medieval theocratic mullahs forever! Boots stomping human faces. This is b's preferred order of global humanity, evidently.
You need therapy
Posted by: claudio | Feb 7 2012 19:01 utc | 30
it's nowhere near as weird as a slothrop obsessed by the posts of an "intermittently unemployed engineer". At least that engineer provides us food for thought, when all you can provide is terribly repetitive & useless rants against one person you seem obsessed with...
that being said, the part about ripping europe apart makes a bit of sense at least. While there are military occupations and invasions, we have now in europe another kind of occupation with what happens to Greece and I read on greekcrisis blog there's alread some kind of sub-minister in germany ready to take over business for good... ("secretariat d'état aux affaires grecques." dunno how it's called in german) can you believe an european nation with a minister dedicated to rule over another sovereign european nation in times of peace ??)
http://greekcrisisnow.blogspot.com/
Posted by: rototo | Feb 7 2012 19:02 utc | 31
@rototo
no, it's not Germany taking over the rest of Europe, it's the financial lobby that has taken over Germany (and the rest of Europe, and the Us, etc etc)
what German politics is adding to the destructive mix neoliberal policies is prejudice towards the "lazy" southern European peoples, which gives the few remaining rational politicians (if any) no room for manoeuvering
from his few hints, I think b is becoming less optimistic about the evolution of the situation; I hope he will dedicate some analysis to this
Posted by: claudio | Feb 7 2012 19:20 utc | 32
I hope he will dedicate some analysis to this
that's bound to fuck up the USuk thesis entirely. you better not go there.
Posted by: slothrop | Feb 7 2012 19:39 utc | 33
@claudio, yeah I'm not especially smart & fast thinker, but I had all the time these last years to notice who's ruling the show everywhere :) But then, we're really entering another age now, where those banksters don't even need politician puppets and are directly operating within state institutions and soon enough it seems they won't even need the non-productive people either.
Did someone watch Torchwood season 4 btw ? For all its flaws & crappy Us-UK crossover, it's more relevant than ever today...
It's only some months old, still looked like science fiction, but hardly anymore...
Posted by: rototo | Feb 7 2012 19:46 utc | 34
slops:
'Assad is shelling his own people with bombs. And the response from the halfwits here is that the Syrian people deserve the treatment because they watch too much al Jazeera. Or something.'
Assad is not shelling his own people...you are shelling this board with lies. But a technique of Colorur Revolution is the real bad guys have to demonise or trick/force the good guys into taking action to justify their very real and very murderous armed 'intervention'. This is how the Empire now conducts its politics.
Posted by: brian | Feb 7 2012 20:55 utc | 35
@rototo - ok, sorry, I didn't mean to correct you, just wanted to quickly point out something actually quite obvious; but the fact is that many think Germany is finally on its way to build that great sphere of influence it has sought for more than a century; whereas I think that fundamentally it's still a colony of Us financial and military imperialism, like the sanctions on Iran and its policy toward the EU prove; it wriggles searching for breathing space, but its choices are constrained within a very a narrow range
it seems that half the world is playing along the Us diktats, patiently waiting for the Us to gracefully collapse, as the Ussr once did, and leave the scene, but that won't happen before they drag us into some global disaster, if politicians don't start to show attributes, as unexpectedly Russia and China did over the Syrian UNSC resolution
Posted by: claudio | Feb 7 2012 23:53 utc | 36
"(Slothrop), You need therapy. Posted by: claudio"
I posted earlier that Slothrop was beyond therapy, claudio. Slothrop is I.N.S.A.N.E.
And judging from his later postings, he is also a murderous, delusional, serial-lying Zionist, which is kind of the same thing...
By the way, that last phrase really should be all one word but the world's online vocabulary hasn't caught up with reality yet.
Posted by: arthurdecco | Feb 8 2012 4:06 utc | 37
Just a reminder to those who may have forgotten or to those that are too
young and don't know some USA history. I hope that you will find this list
of Friends of the USA enlightening.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2844.htm
Slothrop has been swallowing up all that Propaganda from the right and the
Zionist. It sure is sad that a multitude of others suck up all that Propaganda
just as they did with Iraq. Not many search for the TRUTH they only regurgitate that which they have swallowed.
Posted by: Oldman | Feb 8 2012 7:53 utc | 38
meet R2P and see how they are aiding the terrorists and dictators of the GCC against Syrias legitimate govt.Their FB page..go have your say
Posted by: brian | Feb 8 2012 7:53 utc | 39
"semi-consistent way in support of Arab democracy."
Except all the Arab absolute monarchs are supported by US. Most arabs can see this.
Posted by: nikon | Feb 9 2012 3:09 utc | 40
So what??? They all look the same, anyway. Get with the program, b.
Posted by: PissedOffAmerican | Feb 9 2012 4:00 utc | 41
The comments to this entry are closed.
b says, "But, like nearly always, the blowback of such a campaign is likely larger than the gain and in the end will disappoint the instigators."
Care to elaborate, b? The Israel/Saudi/US axis has deep pockets and if the US chooses not to initiate direct military intervention (which is up in the air), they will surely continue their mischief. I'm curious to know what kind of blowback you had in mind?
Posted by: Unknown Unknowns | Feb 6 2012 18:22 utc | 1