Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 8, 2011
Open Thread – Oct 8

What's one your mind?

News & views …

Comments

Watched this book discussion last night:
The Korean War, A History. By Bruce Cumings – Part 1
The Korean War: A History Part 2 – Bruce Cumings
Lots of stuff I didn’t know.

Posted by: b | Oct 9 2011 2:54 utc | 1

There’s too much stuff too many people don’t know about NK. There’s a good article based on an address delivered to the Nautilus Institute/Society by Desaix Anderson who was in charge of the program to “help” NK get 2 light water atomic power stations which ended in utter (and deliberate) disaster for the NK-ians.
Cumings is good. Greg Elich also.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 9 2011 5:49 utc | 2

Desaix Anderson is here.
Last time I looked it was hard to find. This time it was top of Google’s search list.
http://oldsite.nautilus.org/fora/security/0325A_Anderson.html

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 9 2011 6:00 utc | 3

Here’s a longish 2002 NK primer by Gregory Elich.
Targeting North Korea
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/ELI212A.html

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 9 2011 7:30 utc | 4

Pictures from various OWS protests – growing nicely …

Posted by: b | Oct 9 2011 9:18 utc | 5

I thought you might be interested in this b. I ran across this in a local paper (Burlington Free Press, VT):

US think tank hires ex-defense minister from Germany to lead a new trans-Atlantic dialogue initiative. The Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington has hired Karl Theodor zuGuttenberg to enhance the institutes analysis of Europe’s sweeping economic, political and defense transformation.

Posted by: Juannie | Oct 9 2011 11:58 utc | 6

Thanks Juannie – I am laughing here – “to enhance the institutes analysis …” – that guy will surely enhance nothing

Posted by: b | Oct 9 2011 15:59 utc | 7

@ b # 5, I think picture number 38 is a plant. it is as if someone looked at old images of hippies and then got some college republicans to dress up and go get their pictures taken at the “sit-in”
fits with the meme faux news is working on to discredit OWS

Posted by: dan of steele | Oct 9 2011 19:37 utc | 8

@DoS: Do you mean the picture of the meditation group? It’s now #32, so perhaps more photos have been added to the collection. The “hippie” garb doesn’t surprise me–looks like a yoga community, or a group of everyday people in my southeast Portland neighborhood. I can’t speak for NYC, but out here on the left coast, colorful international clothing has never gone out of style.
I spent a bit of time at the start-up of the Occupy Portland march. Fascinating and diverse group of folks-young adults, parents with kids, older folks who remember the protests of the 60s, union members, teachers, and fortunately, a group of mild-mannered bicycle cops who were chatting with the marchers. I don’t know where this will all lead, but the omnibus nature of the protest has me intrigued.
Lizard, thanks for the link to the Missoula blog on the other thread.

Posted by: catlady | Oct 9 2011 21:32 utc | 9

@DoS: Do you mean the picture of the meditation group? It’s now #32, so perhaps more photos have been added to the collection. The “hippie” garb doesn’t surprise me–looks like a yoga community, or a group of everyday people in my southeast Portland neighborhood. I can’t speak for NYC, but out here on the left coast, colorful international clothing has never gone out of style.
I spent a bit of time at the start-up of the Occupy Portland march. Fascinating and diverse group of folks-young adults, parents with kids, older folks who remember the protests of the 60s, union members, teachers, and fortunately, a group of mild-mannered bicycle cops who were chatting with the marchers. I don’t know where this will all lead, but the omnibus nature of the protest has me intrigued.
Lizard, thanks for the link to the Missoula blog on the other thread.

Posted by: catlady | Oct 9 2011 21:32 utc | 10

@ catlady, sorry, I meant 32. I had no idea people still dressed like that.
that photo does a lot of harm in my opinion. as much as we might like to think that the hippies and all the protests of the 60s made a difference, most people look upon them as a bunch of never do well dopers.
I too wish that this is the beginning of something. it gives me hope and I haven’t had much of that for a long time.

Posted by: dan of steele | Oct 9 2011 22:40 utc | 11

DoS: Speaking of doing harm to the movement, here’s an article describing the actions of Patrick Howley, assistant editor of conservative American Spectator, on his infiltration of the Occupy DC march and his aggressive moves at the Air and Space Museum.
Copy of the American Spectator article before it was pulled. (operation mindfuck: maybe FireDogLake and CommonDreams are making up fake stories about AS?)

Posted by: catlady | Oct 10 2011 1:16 utc | 12

The NYTimes which seems to be “vigorously downplaying” OWS, offers this report on the Anthrax attacks, perhaps as a “consolation”. Needless to say, the FBI dismisses the latest research as irrelevant to its case against Bruce Ivins, but in view of its earlier performance in this case, any FBI official statement has to be taken with a grain of salt (at maybe a kilo).

Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Oct 10 2011 5:12 utc | 13

Legal.
HuffPo: US Drug Policy would be Imposed Globally by New House Bill
http://tinyurl.com/3hd6xc4
Electronic Intifada: UK rewrites war crimes law at Israel’s request
http://tinyurl.com/6j6lvbp
AntiWar.com: DHS is testing “Pre-Crime” Detection system
http://tinyurl.com/6elttkx

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 10 2011 9:56 utc | 14

A little tinfoil with the morning joe…
Talking about ‘hippies’ and protest and the Sixties (8, 9, 11 above) one should recall the ‘hippies’ were actually detrimental to the aims of the antiwar movement during that time. Remember the hippy mantra, “tune in, turn on and drop out”? Just another marketing slogan and with its inception the ‘anti war movement’ was marginalized and many mainstream people who were against the war suddenly found themselves being compared to a bunch of acid heads. Pretty good way to keep the Quakers at home was to fill the streets with a bunch of drugged-up idiots who couldn’t form a coherent sentence for the TV cameras… pretty much kept everyone ‘normal’ away.
It worked great for Vietnam, and I’m sure a similar way to marginalize the OWS protest will happen soon (talk about a weak tag… OWS doesn’t do much for me, sounds more like a janitorial supply company)
For those of you who may have lived thru the ’60’s, I will be the first to admit, I wasn’t there. Too young (born in ’69) but the history of that time has fascinated me and I’ve spent much of my reading time during the past twenty years learning more and more about Vietnam and the peace, love, hippy thing. The latter seemed to spring ‘organically’ from that troubled time, but did it?
I believe the hippies were nothing more than the PTB’s way of co-opting and ruining what had previously been a much more inclusive anti war movement, and hell, did the long hairs do any good? Did protest end the war? Or did the PTB just grow tired of that conflict and decide to do something else? I’m voting for the latter considering the war didn’t end until 1975 after a good long run of what? Something like 24/25 years (if you include France’s south east asia experiment)… sigh, has anything changed politically in America since then? The same freaks are still lurking around Washington (Kissinger, GW bush, rummy, even that evil freak cheney, who came to the scene in ’69 and worked with rummy back then… talk about creepy)
As a poster noted on another thread, the OWS movement is already treading water by issuing ‘demands’ and by doing so are beginning to splinter the group. It would be enough for them to simply state that they are there until Wall Street is in jail for all the illegal and ruinous actions of the humans using corporate fronts to destroy civilization. Isn’t that ultimately what the goal of Wall Street is – to destroy anything human and replace it with herd animal consumers?
I rant… I should just be posting that I appreciate everything b is doing to keep this site current and that I would also like to thank all the people posting who are keeping me informed… I end with the latest transmission from Half Past Human’s Cliff High, whose webbots are telling him some feces are going to be flying soon…
A hearty THANKS to all ya, and Peace!

Posted by: DaveS | Oct 10 2011 12:33 utc | 15

“I believe the hippies were nothing more than the PTB’s way of co-opting and ruining what had previously been a much more inclusive anti war movement, and hell, did the long hairs do any good?”
huh?!? DaveS, surely you know plenty of grown-up elder hippies in Colorado; how did they make the 60s movements less inclusive? And do you really think they were created or supported by the PTB? Or was the time ripe for a Dionysian swing in cultural norms? Sure, it swung so far that there was a crash and burn–when Haight-Asbury residents switched from pot and acid to heroin and speed, things got ugly.
In Portland OR, post-hippie culture has given us much of what makes the city so wonderful: organic farms and gardens, attention to sustainable lifestyles, colorful international clothing styles, open attitudes about gender and sex, non-dogmatic religious practices (New Thought, Unitarian Universalist), alternative education (Waldorf, Montessori, etc) for kids, urban growth boundaries and a thriving city core, bike- and pedestrian-friendly streets, a thriving music scene.
Occupy Portland is getting organized.

Posted by: catlady | Oct 10 2011 15:14 utc | 16

Oops, let me see if I can fix my bad formatting and retrieve my links.

Posted by: catlady | Oct 10 2011 15:15 utc | 17

huh?!? DaveS, surely you know plenty of grown-up elder hippies in Colorado; how did they make the 60s movements less inclusive? And do you really think they were created or supported by the PTB? Or was the time ripe for a Dionysian swing in cultural norms? Sure, it swung so far that there was a crash–when Haight-Asbury residents switched from pot and acid to heroin and speed,things got ugly.
In Portland OR, post-hippie culture has given us much of what makes the city so wonderful: organic farms and gardens, attention to sustainable lifestyles, colorful international clothing styles, open attitudes about gender and sex, non-dogmatic religious practices( New Thought, Unitarian Universalist), alternative education (Waldorf, Montessori, etc) for kids, urban growth boundaries and a thriving city core, bike- and pedestrian-friendly streets, a thriving indy music scene.
Occupy Portland is getting organized.

Posted by: catlady | Oct 10 2011 15:25 utc | 18

The ‘hippies’ were actually detrimental to the aims of the antiwar movement during that time – DaveS
That is a great reminder, though many footnotes or arguments could be appended.
68 in France was nominally anti-imperialist, but that was about it. What is generally ignored is that 68 was in part sparked by fast rising unemployment, and the ‘state-general unemployment pay-out body’ (ANPE is the acronym) was created in 67 in part to stifle any revolt.
Salaries were going down, ppl were thrown out of work, after the period of post-war reconstruction boom. Urbanisation up, rural life down, and that is why the ‘workers’ (factory, union, Gvmt, independents) joined the students. Who by now had their own culture, music, magazines, etc. Attractive!
Calls for greater social and personal (sexual, etc.) liberty and a general anti-authoritarian or anti-Gaullist stance, as well as demands for more vacations, better pay, from the worker end, and so on, washed out war and imperialism or blithely ignored it. (For France, Africa. Domination continues to this day.)
The echoes to OWS are loud – but this is a different era.

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 10 2011 15:42 utc | 19

catlady–
While I’m sure the folks who are in Portland probably feel it was hippies that inspired all that, I think you’d find the roots for most of those activities and beliefs had been festering for decades in the good ol’ usa… I’m a too medicated to go into all the different times/groups that were inspired to live sustainably, but some predate the hippies by at least forty years. Out here in the Colorado I’m reminded of Mother Jones and the movement she helped with.
I will again probably step on some generational toes by my generalizations, but the hippies just happened to be from what to me seems to be a rather large and self absorbed generation of baby boomers… again I don’t want to paint everyone with the same brush, but there are a lot of former hippies that have done plenty to fuck up our current world. My generation is certainly not responsible for the ’80’s which did more to enable these poisonous times… shit, I can’t only blame the ’80’s, even if reagan had two terms and bushhead I lived thru a term (and a war)
The names of the assholes have remained the same for so many years now, I’m beginning to wonder if drinking children’s blood isn’t somehow prolonging these monster’s lives.
Peace

Posted by: DaveS | Oct 10 2011 16:14 utc | 20

DaveS: Yup, it was your generalization that got me writing this morning. I was a Nebraskan kid in the 60s, with Republican parents; it wasn’t until I got to grad school that I started to understand what “counter-culture” might mean. I am grateful that I live in Oregon and not Nebraska.
I think the Wikipedia article is pretty clear about the many cultural streams that came together in the movements of the 60s. Perhaps our thinking isn’t quite congruent on which of those many streams of folks should be labelled “hippie” and which shouldn’t. Sombunall hippies were druggy, lazy, and self-absorbed and sombunall hippies were creative, thoughtful, and dedicated to “being the change they wished to see in the world.” Sombunall hippies burned out; sombunall became Wall St. banksters; sombunall became the citizens who stay active to create healthy communities for their kids and grandkids. Sombunall young Occupiers today are wild-eyed dreamers with no practical solutions to suggest. Sombunall are out-of-work union members with a lot to say. Sombunall Occupiers are dedicated, peaceful, and working hard at creating a new paradigm. A Venn diagram of all these sombunalls would show some interesting intersections.
Far out. Groovy. Peace. Namaste y’all.

Posted by: catlady | Oct 10 2011 17:36 utc | 21

Phony conspiracy against Iran likely to make the way for the ‘next phase’ in the war on the world.
Ridiculous plot about bombing the Saudi ambassador

Posted by: ThePaper | Oct 11 2011 18:55 utc | 22

Just saw that item ThePaper and came here to post about it but you beat me to it. Your comment mirrors my first reaction exactly. I may be just too jaded these days and I never have proof but past history always triggers false flags flying around in my mind. I even see the officials at Huff Post DC draped in red white and blue. Arrgh!

Posted by: juannie | Oct 11 2011 23:33 utc | 23

Bibi’s decision to swap 1000 Palestinian prisoners in exchange for Gilad Shalit restates and underlines Jewish supremacism better than any non-Jew ever could.
It reminds me of an imaginary conversation blogged elsewhere a couple of years ago…
Palestinian Negotiator: “We’ll swap this Jewish eyelash for 1 of your Palestinian prisoners.”
Head Jew: “What an outrageous insult! We won’t give you less than 10!”

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 12 2011 2:38 utc | 24

FireDogLake
I will never support anything, and I mean ANYTHING, that is affiliated with that bastion of rabid Group Think. It is as anathema to me as is Glenn Beck.

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Oct 13 2011 12:04 utc | 25

More in-your-face contempt for citizens by the US police that nobody is going to care anything about:
We fabricated drug charges against innocent people to meet arrest quotas, former detective testifies

Posted by: Monolycus | Oct 14 2011 5:19 utc | 26

Anyone notes? Obama just started another war:
Obama sending combat troops to central Africa to aid fight against rebels

President Obama has deployed combat troops to central Africa to aid in the fight against the Lord’s Resistance Army. In a letter to Speaker of the House John Boehner, Obama says 12 troops with “appropriate combat equipment” were deployed on October 12 and approximately 100 in total will be deployed including a second combat team and headquarters, communications and logistics personnel. The forces will provide information and advise and assist “select partner nation forces,” Obama explains. The troops will not fight except in self-defense. The full letter is after the jump.

Posted by: b | Oct 14 2011 18:12 utc | 27

I just dropped by here to post that identical story, b.
With all of these extrajudicial assassinations that Obama keeps signing off on, I’m wondering now if the Nobel Peace Prize committee is feeling any embarrassment. They should just start handing prizes out to every mob boss to keep things fair.

Posted by: Monolycus | Oct 15 2011 2:40 utc | 28

Thomas Friedman and Tom Ricks in a conversation about Afghanistan.
Hilarious.

Posted by: b | Oct 15 2011 18:44 utc | 29

unfortunately b, the world is full of such pricks

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 15 2011 22:19 utc | 30

monolycus
you are right so i will personally be calling for posthumous nobel prizes to be given to lucky luciano, meyer lansky, to the entire genovese, & colombo clans, some form of peacekeeping prizes for carmine galante, fat tony salerno & john gotti – that seems to be fair

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 15 2011 22:22 utc | 31

Good 1st step: US:”>http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/feedarticle/9896966>US: We’re out of Iraq by January. Now vacate that monster embassy, please (thing will be home to numerous spies, ‘advisors’, and other shady characters, unfortunately).

Posted by: philippe | Oct 16 2011 4:32 utc | 32