Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 25, 2011
NYT Whitewash Of Gaddhafi Killing And Other Libya Issues

A rather weird piece in the NYT reports on earlier discussions in the White House about what to do with Gaddhafi:

Last Wednesday evening, the White House convened a 90-minute meeting to tackle a looming, delicate question: What should be done with the Libyan dictator, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, if he were captured alive, either in Libya or in a neighboring country?

Less than 24 hours later, the debate was moot. Colonel Qaddafi was dead, after being pulled alive from a drain pipe and succumbing later to gunshot wounds.

"Succumbing to gunshot wounds" is a quite evading expression for a direct pistol shot into the head and another into the heart of Gaddhafi after he was captured alive, only lightly wounded, and after he was sodomized.

There is also an issue with the timeline here. The NYT piece puts the discussion about what to do with Gaddhafi to Wednesday the 19th. But the White House decision was already announced on Tuesday the 18th by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in Tripoli:

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton encouraged the country's unsteady new leadership to commit to a democratic future free of retribution, and acknowledged in unusually blunt terms that the United States would like to see former dictator Moammar Gadhafi dead.

"We hope he can be captured or killed soon so that you don't have to fear him any longer," Clinton told students and others at a town hall-style gathering in the capital city.

Indeed the NYT piece seems to be an after-the-fact whitewash, based on the typical anonymous senior officials, of what really happened.

From the very beginning this was about regime change and the earlier attacks on Gaddhafi compounds by NATO bombers were clear attempts to kill him. Not one of the three stooges, Cameron, Sarkozy and Obama, wanted Gaddhafi to stand in court and tell about all the cooperation and money he provided to them. There never was a serious discussion about "what to do with Gaddhafi." They wanted him dead all along.

Meanwhile, as anticipated, the situation in Libya is getting worse. The revolutionaries are now doing away with their pro-western attitude, the "western" face Mahmoud Jibril resigned, and start to show their real face:

In his landmark speech on Sunday announcing the liberation of the country from the rule of Col Muammer Gaddafi, Libya’s provisional leader Mustafa Abdul-Jalil vowed to suspend the law requiring a man to obtain permission from his first wife before marrying a second one and to outlaw interest on loans in accord with fundamentalist Islamic rules.

The declarations, major legal changes which did not appear to be within his authority as leader of a self-declared government, shocked many.

Well, what did those "many" believe what those rebel fighters in Libya were about? That they were motivated by religion was visible in many of the video clips from the rebels side in which each shot was accompanied by Allahu aqbar shoutings.

[T]he statements sparked a minor furore, especially among women activists. Others considered the entire tone of the speech and the day’s ceremony a gratuitous slap in the face to women, not one of whom took to the podium to speak during the commemoration.

The women of Libya can now thank those three American feminists, Hillary Clinton, Susan Rice and Samantha Power, who launched this war on them that will now push them back into a medieval role model.

Mr Abdul-Jalil’s comments on banking also struck some as strange, given the country’s need for foreign investment. “There are good intentions to regulate all banking law,” he said. “We especially seek to establish Islamic banks that don’t deal with interest and abolish all banking interests in the future according to Islamic tradition.” Interest, he said, “creates disease and hatred among people”.

The IMF and Worldbank bankers will hate such talk. But their is no reason why they should be involved in Libya at all. Libya is rich, it does not need foreign investment. Thanks to Gaddhafi tens of billions of Libya's money are parked in its national wealth fund and can be repatriated and invested into what the country needs. Now watch how the "western" powers will try their best to prevent that. Indebted countries are easier to control than those who have lots of money available to them and controlling Libya is what they want.

The news from Tripoli isn't good either:

[T]he capital, in particular, has become a patchwork of armed fiefdoms, as wannabe power brokers backed by hometown militias made up of former clerks, students and engineers battle with each other and with natives of Tripoli for the spoils of war, a slice of the country's wealth and a share of political power – all of it, in their way of looking, up for grabs.

Kidnappings and disappearances are the new currency in the swelling conflict, with outright shootings a tactic of last resort. The creeping mayhem is fuelled by an infusion of weapons that has turned Tripoli into a virtual armoury.

Welcome to the post-revolutionary hell. If you think Baghdad 2006 was bad welcome to Tripoli 2012. It may well become worse.

Comments

oh, so many people and organizations burnt their reputation in this … what the lust of money (cake) can do …
this here is the view from Russia
http://en.ria.ru/international_affairs/20111024/168045085.html

Posted by: somebody | Oct 25 2011 14:48 utc | 1

still can’t believe we can do this and get away with it
every time we think we have reached the extreme of criminal and senseless actions, we manage to establish a new record
can you imagine a Nuremberg trial against western leaders today? how long would it last? how many men would the prosecution need? how many people could be brought to witness? how long would it take to list all the criminal offences committed?
it’s shocking; apart from some discomfort at the NTC’s obvious disregard of the script we expected them to play by, the fact is that the criminals are glowing in their “success story”: one less mad and blood-thirsty tyrant, one more liberated country, and our “responsibility” to stay in Libya to watch over those immature and fanatic arabs

Posted by: claudio | Oct 25 2011 14:54 utc | 2

no, it won’t be a success story it is going from tragedy to comedy to farce now
Al Jazeera
“Tue, 25 Oct 2011, 13:37 GMT+3 – Libya
NTC Oil and Finance Minister Ali Tarhouni has asked NATO to continue its air mission in Libya for “at least one more month,” despite earlier statements from US and European officials that the death of ousted leader Muammar Gaddafi meant the mission could come to an end, the AFP news agency reports.
NATO has said it would wind down its mission and end it by October 31, in six days.”

Posted by: somebody | Oct 25 2011 15:00 utc | 3

I don’t care if Bruce Fein is stumping for Ron Paul with this or not… he nails it here.

Posted by: Monolycus | Oct 25 2011 16:05 utc | 4

As’ad AbuKhalil writes:

Mustafa Abdul-NATO has been talking a lot about Islamic law and changes in the law of Libya. He has invoked the term “wasati Islam” (centrist Islam). You know who started invoking this term? Saudi Arabia, for potato’s sake. They consider their version of Wahhabi Bin Ladenite Islam to be wasati. Let me say this to my readers: the NATO intervention in Libya will bring you a Bin Ladenite republic the likes of which we have not seen since the overthrow of the Taliban in Afghanistan. A monster is about to be born there. And some of those armed factions will be engaging in a war against Western targets. I have seen this movie before.

Posted by: b | Oct 25 2011 17:03 utc | 5


Libyan fuel depot explosion kills dozens

Here it begins?

Posted by: nobodee | Oct 25 2011 17:57 utc | 6

monolycus @ 4: Nailed it indeed! thanks for the link.

Posted by: ben | Oct 25 2011 18:22 utc | 7

Monolycus, thanks. It nails it.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 25 2011 18:29 utc | 8

@nobodee – for now it looks like an accident, but could be Gaddhafi followers.
Sirte is fucked:

“I am from Sirte but I fought in Misrata for months. My brother was arrested because Qaddafi’s people found out about me. We haven’t heard from him since. But the Misrata rebels have destroyed whole streets.
“Most of the destruction that you see in Sirte has been caused by the rebels. They destroyed even my house. That was unnecessary. We haven’t seen our families in months; now we can’t even bring them home. No house in Sirte has been left untouched: what NATO didn’t bomb, the rebels from Misrata finished.”
“There are bad rebels. They are thieves. They have stolen everything from the cattle to the garbage trucks. We have to start from nothing.”
They have spoken to the military council in Misrata, but all they said was that they were powerless to control the brigades.
“When the revolution began many people in Sirte loved the rebels from Misrata. Today it will be very difficult to find a single person from Sirte who loves Misrata,” says Nasr.
“They can do what they want with Qaddafi and his soldiers. We have no problem with that. But if the rebels act in the same way as the Qaddafi troops then the revolution has been for nothing.”

Posted by: b | Oct 25 2011 18:46 utc | 9

I don’t see why you are all so concerned. The murder of Qaddafi was a simple lynching, unless other evidence comes out that there was pre-planning. Lynching of politicians happens, in an atmosphere of extreme hatred. The sodomisation is only a proof.
There are plenty of cases in history – Mussolini, Ceaucescu, which have been often mentioned. Also the revolution in Baghdad in 1958, when Nuri Said was strung up from a lamp-post and then dragged behind a car round Baghdad.
Regrettable but common.
If you want to make something out of the issue, you would have to show that the murderer, who has been shown on video, was pre-primed to do it. Not impossible, but it would have to be shown.

Posted by: Alexno | Oct 25 2011 19:19 utc | 10

“I don’t see why you are all so concerned.”
Well I for one was looking forward to buying a bit of beachfront somewhere near Sirte. Maybe a MacDonalds? Casinos? Playboy Club?

Posted by: dh | Oct 25 2011 19:32 utc | 11

@10, comparing Mussolini and The Mug in this case is like comparing apples and grapefruit. Mussolini and his fellow Fascists brutalized the Peasants and any organization that represented the Peasants’ interests. When the table was turned, he received his comeuppance. Do you have evidence where The Mug engaged in systematic brutalization of his Peasant class? Did The Mug even have a Peasant Class? Wasn’t his officially declared goal to end such classifications?
Anyway, that aside, I believe what many here have an issue with is the reaction of The West to these “executions” more than the act itself and who and what did it. If your official tagline is that you are the champion of democracy and human rights, this is hardly an appropriate reaction. In fact, it’s quite the opposite, and it, quite transparently, shows their true colors.

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Oct 25 2011 19:42 utc | 12

Personally I think that politicians who take extreme power run the risk of such an end. They can’t complain. Saddam Hussein knew what might be coming to him, and he went to his death with dignity.
Qaddafi doesn’t seem to have understood the hatred that he evoked. For he is reported to have said “what have I done to you?”
If you object to the lynching, you have to explain the hatred.

Posted by: Alexno | Oct 25 2011 19:44 utc | 13

alexno
i think your slavish support for a humanitarian intervention in libya has met its impoverished finale

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 25 2011 21:19 utc | 14

‘We are honored to introduce for the first time writer/investigative journalist Martin Iqbal of http://www.empirestrikesblack.com who, along with Jonathon Azaziah weighs in on the assassination of Gaddafi and the growing evidence that it was not the “freedom fighters” who killed Gaddafi but actually British SAS troops.’
http://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/the-ugly-truth-podcast-oct-24-2011/

Posted by: brian | Oct 25 2011 22:02 utc | 15

the media war
there is a disappearing article in channel 4
by Johnny McDevitt he links to it via twitter, channel4 links to it via twitter, it did exist, it disappeared
http://www.channel4.com/news/rebels-arrest-medical-staff-in-zawiya
McDevittJohnny Johnny McDevitt
Rebels arrest 70 medical staff in Zawiya for being ‘pro-Gaddafi’, sources in the city tell #c4news bit.ly/ofqVlW
24 Okt
channel4news Channel 4 News
Rebels arrest 70 medical staff in Zawiya for being ‘pro-Gaddafi’, a source in the city tells #c4news bit.ly/ofqVlW
24 Okt
Johnny McDevitt
McDevittJohnny Johnny McDevitt
von channel4news
Rebels arrest 70 medical staff in Zawiya for being ‘pro-Gaddafi’, sources in the city tell #c4news bit.ly/ofqVlW
24 Okt
the article still exists on loyalist websites only:
http://libyanfreepress.wordpress.com/2011/10/25/rebels-arrest-medical-staff-70-in-zawiya/
so, no censorship in NATO countries?

Posted by: somebody | Oct 25 2011 22:07 utc | 16

re 14 r’giap
You are quite wrong. Unusually here, I am interested in Libya, not in the interests of the western powers.
I don’t give a fuck about what the US thinks, nor NATO. I think about the reactions of Libyans.
It’s a great mistake to think that only western opinions count.
That is what happened in Iraq. Follow conspiratorial opinion and the US will never withdraw from Iraq. Mais voilà, for some strange reason, quite outside the volition of the evil western powers, the US is totally withdrawing from Iraq by 31 December. It’s a defeat for those who believe that the US will never withdraw from a foothold once gained.
The fact is that the US is losing power, and conspiratorial theories about their evil intentions have as much value as the fantasies that take place in the Pentagon.

Posted by: Alexno | Oct 25 2011 22:08 utc | 17

i think i have proven over time that i do not believe in conspiracy theories of any form, i think i have argued for a long time here that late capitalism is marked by its thoughtlessness
that this thoughtlessness is in itself ‘evil’, in following that famous phrase of a polish poet that it is more difficult to live one day decently than to create a work of art
what is happening in the middle east is far from over, & how the u s ‘s impulses will be quenched are still yet to be seen, though i follow the maoist dicton, that a beast who is dying is at its most dangerous
what i feel instinctively is the hard won independence of latin & central america came after decades of massacres, assassination & destabilisations – that the people were obliged after the chicago boys had fucked that continent into the ground, the people in effect took their destiny in their hands leading the vanguard parties instead of the other ay around
what is happening in libya is not only the usurping of the arab revolts but shows a new level of depravity of the imperialist projects
i have followed b’s writing since the beginning & they are not conspiratorial but they are instinctual, but a though out instinct, in so many ‘situations’ i have learnt from b, & taken my reading further from points he & others have suggested
in libya, the only possible position was to oppose the project of imperialism & that was clear from the very beginning & then became much clearer when it was clear the ‘rebels, possessed no popular support & that nato had to do it’s fighting for them/ that was the minimal position & the details would come from the accession to a kind of western liberalism by ghaddafi himself in the mast decade but also his continuing support by both the african people & their cadre
those who supported this ‘evil’ humanitarian intervention will live to see how poisonous it actually is

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 25 2011 22:35 utc | 18

amount of weapons collected today from civilians willing to give up arms in Tripoli in one office
http://twitpic.com/75q8rd

Posted by: somebody | Oct 25 2011 22:37 utc | 19

@Alexno #13

If you object to the lynching, you have to explain the hatred.

are you kidding?

Posted by: claudio | Oct 25 2011 22:39 utc | 20

Alexno – London Riots from Wikipedia
explain the hatred …
“Richard Mannington Bowes
A 68-year-old man, Richard Mannington Bowes, died on 11 August after he was attacked while attempting to stamp out a litter-bin fire in Ealing on the evening of 8 August.[54]
Bowes was attacked by members of a mob on 8 August 2011, while attempting to extinguish a fire that had been deliberately started in industrial bins on Spring Bridge Road. The attack inflicted severe head injuries which resulted in a coma. The assault was caught on CCTV and reportedly filmed on mobile phones by associates of the alleged assailant.[55] The attack on Bowes was witnessed by several police officers, but due to the number of rioters they were unable to come to his aid until riot squad officers pushed back the rioters while being attacked in order to reach Bowes. A line of officers then held back the rioters as paramedics arrived.[56] Bowes’s wallet and phone had been stolen, and police faced difficulty in identifying him. He died of his injuries in St Mary’s Hospital on 11 August 2011 after being removed from life support.[57][58]
Many tributes were paid to Bowes, including Ealing Council who flew the Union Flag at half-mast over its town hall and announced the launch of a relief fund in his name,[59] and London Mayor Boris Johnson, who described him as a hero.[60]
A 22-year-old man was arrested on suspicion of Bowes’ murder, rioting and committing three burglaries;[61][62] he was released on bail. A 16-year-old male who lives in Hounslow was charged with murdering Bowes, violent disorder and four burglaries.[63][64] He appeared at Croydon Magistrates’ Court on 16 August 2011, where he was remanded in custody until his appearance at the Central Criminal Court on 18 August 2011.[63] His 31 year-old mother[65] was charged with perverting the course of justice.[63]”

Posted by: somebody | Oct 25 2011 23:49 utc | 21

what I mean, alexno is the guys you see in those Libyan photos and videos are very, very young.
when you give them arms and get them excited in a group things happen. and the people who use them know things happen.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 25 2011 23:55 utc | 22

Is it a conspiracy, if greedy and avarice ridden men, think and act on the desire to control even more wealth than they already have? Even as they covet collectively, as controllers of great Empires, is that conspiratorial? If you believe not, I think you ignore the history of mankind.

Posted by: ben | Oct 26 2011 0:14 utc | 23

r’giap
Clinton, Obama, Cameron, and Sarkozy have burnt their bridges now; they join Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Tony Blair.
You have it right; this intervention will prove poisonous to those responsible for this atrocity against Libyans. I ask myself if there is a way out of his hell; if the light seen in Tahrir Square or in the Latin American country’s or Occupy Wall Street will pull us back from the brink? This is all we have to go on, as the empire lashes at its victims in hopes of forestalling its own end.
The West will have to fall to earth. I had a most vivid dream the other night; that I was in a massive civic building that began to crumble in slow motion and I was flung out the window into the branches of a tree. It reminded me of that scene when the stars come out in that Thorton Wilder play, “By the Skin of Our Teeth”, when the whole human project can be seen moving from beginnings of civilization to endings, and back to beginnings again.
A dear friend gave me a copy of “Language For A New Century” with poetry from the Middle East, Asia, and beyond.
The great Mahmoud Darwish writes “In Jerusalem”:
“…
I was walking down a slope and thinking to myself: How
do the narrators disagree over what light said about a stone?
Is it from a dimly lit stone that wars flare up?
I walk in my sleep. I stare in my sleep. I see
no one behind me. I see no one ahead of me.
All this light is for me. I walk. I become lighter. I fly
then I become another. Transfigured. Words
sprout like grass from Isaiah’s messenger
mouth: “If you don’t believe you won’t be safe.”
I walk as if I were another. And my wound a white
biblical rose. And my hands like two doves
on the cross hovering and carrying the earth.
I don’t walk, I fly, I become another,
transfigured. No place and no time. So who am I?
I am no I in ascension’s presence. But I
think to myself: Alone, the prophet Muhammad
spoke classical Arabic. “And then so what?”
Then what? A woman soldier shouted:
Is that you again? Didn’t I kill you?
I said: You killed me…and I forgot, like you, to die.”

Posted by: Copeland | Oct 26 2011 2:50 utc | 24

claudio wrote: “still can’t believe we can do this and get away with it” (Comment #2.)
The US elite create their own reality now, remember? That includes semantics.

Posted by: Monolycus | Oct 26 2011 2:52 utc | 25

“..I don’t see why you are all so concerned. The murder of Qaddafi was a simple lynching, unless other evidence comes out that there was pre-planning. Lynching of politicians happens, in an atmosphere of extreme hatred. The sodomisation is only a proof….”
The concern stems from the fact that these actions not only took place under the supervision of NATO but have been effectively endorsed by NATO leaders. This is the latest in an escalating series of brutalities by NATO: death squads, drone assassinations and industrial scale abuse of prisoners, for example.
None of these things is new but the readiness of NATO leaders to associate themselves with such brutalities- they no longer trouble to deny, plausibly or otherwise- is unusual. Vice, giddy with its own power, no longer feels that it owes impotent virtue any sort of tribute.
What we are watching is the result of fascist ethos of the Likudniks occupying the moral vacuum in heart of an Empire besides which Rome in its most debauched eras was a model of propriety and honour.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 26 2011 3:02 utc | 26

It was not a lynching, it was a lurid debauch, orchestrated by voyeurs and ghouls.

Posted by: Copeland | Oct 26 2011 3:11 utc | 27

A Command Performance.

Posted by: Copeland | Oct 26 2011 3:27 utc | 28

I do not think it is an accident the press now is full with rebel atrocities – they were there before, but underreported.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/25/opinion/hayden-libya-iraq/?hpt=wo_t2
U.S. enters Libya, leaves Iraq
By Michael V. Hayden, CNN Contributor
October 25, 2011 — Updated 2120 GMT (0520 HKT)

Posted by: somebody | Oct 26 2011 6:03 utc | 29

Here’s Steve Gowans, short and sweet, on Gaddafi’s Oppressions
(the imaginary ones)
http://gowans.wordpress.com/2011/10/21/gaddafi%e2%80%99s-oppressions/

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 26 2011 7:00 utc | 30

@Monolycus
very good article:

if the adversary cannot fight back, there is no war

there is some truth to it, though, isn’t there? if people can go along their normal lives and ignore what’s going on, it isn’t war in the usual (the last 10,000 years?) sense;
the secret of modern imperialism lies in this capability to separate distant wars from people’s daily lives, through superior technology and mercenaries (see all those foreign divisions of the British army); otherwise, war generally is a democratizing process, because it mobilizes people that then hold their leaders accountable

Posted by: claudio | Oct 26 2011 8:03 utc | 31

this in German on the cynic cruelty of humanitarian intervention
http://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2011-10/gadhafi-zynismus-westen

Posted by: somebody | Oct 26 2011 10:15 utc | 32

it is getting more silly now. Nato is supposed to stop loyalists from leaving the country
from Al jazeera
“NATO should stay involved in Libya until the end of this year to help prevent loyalists of Muammar Gaddafi from leaving the country, Mustafa Abdel Jalil, the interim leader, has said.
NATO, whose air attacks backed National Transitional Council (NTC) forces that overthrew Gaddafi in August, is to decide on Friday whether to end its mission after his death and burial in the past week and a liberation declaration by the NTC.
“We look forward to NATO continuing its operations until the end of the year,” Jalil said at a conference in Doha on Wednesday.
Stating that stopping the flight of Gaddafi supporters to other countries was a priority, he said: “We seek technical and logistics help from neighbouring and friendly countries.”

Posted by: somebody | Oct 26 2011 11:02 utc | 33

and as this time article shows – they still assume that the Ghaddafi death videos work against him, I cannot understand how people seeing a corpse on the cross almost daily somewhere can commit this fallacy
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2097783,00.html

Posted by: somebody | Oct 26 2011 11:23 utc | 34

Qatar admits it had boots on ground in Libya

DOHA: Qatar revealed for the first time Wednesday that hundreds of its soldiers had fought alongside Libyans in their battle to topple longtime despot Moammar Gadhafi.
“We were among them and the numbers of Qataris on ground were hundreds in every region,” said Qatari chief of staff Maj. Gen. Hamad bin Ali al-Atiya.
The announcement marks the first time that Qatar has acknowledged it had military boots on the ground in Libya.

Posted by: b | Oct 26 2011 12:39 utc | 35

I didn’t know Qatar had boots. You learn something new everyday. What’s next? Timor has socks?

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Oct 26 2011 13:27 utc | 36

If Gaddafi were arrested and put on trial, he would have exposed the truth about how the US is being run by a bunch of thieves and butchers, i.e., banksters and war criminals! This is why Obama had his black ops thugs kill Gaddafi, which is also why he had them kill bin Laden and al-Awlaki. What I don’t understand is why here in America there’s hardly any show of outrage over this! Don’t most Americans know that killing people before putting them on trial is something that only lawless rogue states do?
I understand that our news media is in the business of protecting our president from scrutiny, no matter what kinds of crimes that he commits, but this shouldn’t stop Americans from showing some degree of outrage over the fact that we’ve got a cold-blooded killer living in the White House. Don’t they know that once the president and his secret gang of thugs are given “carte blanche” to assassinate people living outside our borders without first putting them on trial, there is nothing to stop them from doing the same to people living here inside our borders.
And as far as I can tell, not a single soul in the mainstream media reported that al-Awlaki’s 16 year old son was killed by an American drone strike over Yemen. I think that this news was deliberately censoring by our government-controlled media, because for our government to partake in the killing of a child, especially when it appears to have been done deliberately, would spark far too much outcry among the American public. Americans can be pretty cold and heartless, but not when it involves children.

Posted by: Cynthia | Oct 26 2011 16:37 utc | 37

I imagine they would be industrial boots for walking through rubble. A humanitarian gesture.

Posted by: dh | Oct 26 2011 16:38 utc | 38

Saif al-Islam Gadaffi wants to surrender himself to ICC

Posted by: nikon | Oct 26 2011 17:10 utc | 39

If Gaddafi were arrested and put on trial, he would have exposed the truth about how the US is being run by a bunch of thieves and butchers, i.e., banksters and war criminals!
Just like Saddam did? I don’t think so. They sanctioned his murder (The Mug’s) because they could. As far as The Mug was concerned, they were beyond reproach. If it doesn’t clear to all involved that this is no different than La Cosa Nostra, then you are a person who doesn’t operate in the realm of reason. This is Gangsterism in Lipstick…..and a lousy shade of Lipstick. FYI, I hate Lipstick. I prefer au naturale.

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Oct 26 2011 17:31 utc | 40

It is interesting that the NTC wants NATO to continue its mission in Libya till the end of the year. I presume they are looking for the surveillance capability, and Special Forces support. It is significant that this request came first from Tarhouni, the NTC representative in Tripoli, and was then picked up by Jalil.
I don’t think they are worried about the remnants of Gaddafi’s supporters; rather, they want this support to deal with the other factions that are now competing with the NTC for power. I doubt if NATO would want to get involved in a potential civil war, though France and Britain would probably be happy to oblige (Tarhouni is also the Oil Minister).

Posted by: FB Ali | Oct 26 2011 17:35 utc | 41

Saif al-Islam Gadaffi wants to surrender himself to ICC
Great idea. Maybe they’ll give him Milošević’s old cell.

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Oct 26 2011 17:52 utc | 42

I imagine they would be industrial boots for walking through rubble. A humanitarian gesture.
All this boot talk conjures a vision of Max Boot singing a rendition of Nancy Sinatra’s These Boots Are Made For Walking…..dress and all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbyAZQ45uww&feature=related
http://www.cfr.org/content/bios/Boot_dl.jpg

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Oct 26 2011 17:59 utc | 43

libyans should not give up their arms…They were given them by gadafi, not to be taken away by the illegal and ilegitimate mas murdering TNC or anyone

Posted by: brian | Oct 26 2011 21:03 utc | 44

more rubbish from Morroco bama
Saif al-Islam Gadaffi wants to surrender himself to ICC
Great idea. Maybe they’ll give him Milošević’s old cell.
Posted by: Morocco Bama | Oct 26, 2011 1:52:34 PM | 42
================================
Sorry Roc but Saif has no intention of surrendnig to traitors and foreign invaders…let alone the illegitimate ICC

Posted by: brian | Oct 26 2011 21:05 utc | 45

aah, it is going to travesty now
http://counterpsyops.com/2011/10/26/dry-your-tears-and-continue-the-fight-the-one-they-showed-to-you-was-not-muammar-al-gaddafi/
if true, they know it by now, so they need more time looking for him in the sand …

Posted by: somebody | Oct 26 2011 21:06 utc | 46

No Cynthia…your naieve if you expect a fair trial from the ICC..in any case Libya justifyable does not recognise the ICC (nor does the US, but their regime dictators do act in concert with Ocampp to attack US targets),which is an instrument of the Europeans war machine…ask any african!

Posted by: brian | Oct 26 2011 21:07 utc | 47

And now the US admits, Americans got killed by people they now support
http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/10/26/controlling_libyas_weapons
“However, the worst fears about violent clashes between militias have not materialized. Rival provincial militias have so far shunned fighting. One reason for this is counter-intuitive: many of the fighters have experienced warlordism firsthand in Afghanistan, Algeria, Iraq, and elsewhere, and found the experiences horrendous. “We saw Muslims fight before…Neither Afghanistan was liberated, nor the Islamic state was established…We had enough with this. We just want to raise our kids in a safe society” said a fighter from Derna who volunteered to fight in Afghanistan multiple times.
The NTC, under Musfata Abdul Jalil, was able to maneuver through a few potential disasters, such as the Younis assassination, and is actively seeking to prevent a collapse into violence. His controversial speech on the supremacy of sharia laws was in fact an attempt to avoid a potential clash with the multiple armed Islamist brigades …”

Posted by: somebody | Oct 26 2011 21:22 utc | 48

I didn’t know Qatar had boots. You learn something new everyday. What’s next? Timor has socks?
Posted by: Morocco Bama | Oct 26, 2011 9:27:30 AM | 36
=====================
They have jackboots!

Posted by: brian | Oct 26 2011 21:57 utc | 49

Nobel peace prize shit right here:
Obama’s “recipe for success”…
Fuck Obomba and Nato…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Oct 26 2011 23:54 utc | 50

Alexno, you are not only poorly informed, you are really bad intentioned. And mentioning “Ceaucescu”, you have simply no idea what are you talking about.
Ceausescu was sentenced to death by a military court and executed by a firing squad.
Nothing at all like the barbarians we see all over the web did in Libya.

Posted by: anon | Oct 27 2011 1:57 utc | 51

Libya will be a contractor’s war, so multisided everybody will be for themselves. The protection money needed to extract oil will be immense.
Those people who know how to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan will spread that technology for sure intentionally or not.
Morocca Bama I insist on the word “stupid”. Sometimes people trying to be clever end up like that.
The gate from Africa to Europe is open now. I suggest Europeans check their humanitarian values fast, otherwise this will get very ugly politically or otherwise.
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110930/local/closure-of-lampedusa-could-undermine-rescue-operations.387115
Somehow Sarkozy and Cameron were very quiet recently …

Posted by: somebody | Oct 27 2011 8:24 utc | 52

this is the view from Nigeria
http://www.vanguardngr.com/2011/10/libya-and-nigeria-after-gaddafi/
Egypt, Tunisia, Niger, Mali, Algeria they all will be affected. France is dependant on Niger for Uranium – their electricity is mainly produced by nuclear power
http://www.examiner.com/geopolitics-in-national/france-more-worried-about-uranium-than-nigeriens-after-military-coup
I don’t see cheap oil coming out of Libya for a long time. Libyan money will stay in Western banks though – they do not seem to be able to form a government.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 27 2011 8:47 utc | 53

I don’t see cheap oil coming out of Libya for a long time.
Maybe that’s part of the strategy, just like in Iraq. Tie up the reserves and create scarcity to justify hire prices and control who gets what when and for how much.

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Oct 27 2011 15:23 utc | 54

Brian,
The point that I was trying to make, a point that Bernhard, aka b, and other great bloggers like Glenn Greenwald are much better than me at making, is that when President Obama’s only claim to fame is that he has successfully carried out extra-judicial killings on people who are a major threat to American imperial interests around the world, then you know that the US has devolved into a rogue state that has no respect for human life and the rule of law.
And I want to remind Obamabots like Rachel Maddow and Andrew Sullivan of this, whenever they and others mention that Obama has a superb foreign policy record all because he had his CIA thugs kill bin Laden, al-Awlaki, and Gaddafi back-to-back, all in less than six months.

Posted by: Cynthia | Oct 27 2011 21:12 utc | 55