Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 26, 2011
Libyans Asked For No Foreign Intervention


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This picture was published on March 1 in a Guardian blog and elsewhere.

The demonstrators in the picture asked for "no foreign intervention". But their movement was already being captured by foreigners.

Go read Craig Murray on the currently ongoing attack on Sirte. Excerpt: Sirte – the Apotheosis of “Liberal Intervention”

The “rebels” are actively hitting Sirte with heavy artillery and Stalin’s organs; they are transporting tanks openly to attack Sirte. Yet any movement of tanks or artillery by the population of Sirte brings immediate death from NATO air strike.

What exactly is the reason that Sirte’s defenders are threatening civilians but the artillery of their attackers – and the bombings themselves – are not? Plainly this is a nonsense. People in foreign ministries, NATO, the BBC and other media are well aware that it is the starkest lie and propaganda, to say the assault on Sirte is protecting civilians. But does knowledge of the truth prevent them from peddling a lie? No.

It is worth reminding everyone something never mentioned, that UNSCR 1973 which established the no fly zone and mandate to protect civilians had

“the aim of facilitating dialogue to lead to the political reforms necessary to find a peaceful and sustainable solution;”

That is in Operative Para 2 of the Resolution

Plainly the people of Sirte hold a different view to the “rebels” as to who should run the country. NATO have in effect declared being in Gadaffi’s political camp a capital offence. There is no way the massive assault on Sirte is “facilitating dialogue”. it is rather killing those who do not hold the NATO approved opinion. That is the actual truth. It is extremely plain.

“Liberal intervention” does not exist. What we have is the opposite; highly selective neo-imperial wars aimed at ensuring politically client control of key physical resources.

Comments

yes we know all that, what can anyone do about it? See SA agreed to release the funds. The AU is uncle tom’s organisation. The only person is Chavez who is leading South America against the TNC recognition.

Posted by: hans | Aug 26 2011 13:06 utc | 1

Hey, I remember that photo. I posted it in this thread, and there was an ensuing discussion about it.
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2011/04/the-three-stooges-go-to-war.html#c6a00d8341c640e53ef014e87dab7fd970d

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Aug 26 2011 13:26 utc | 2

yeah, it is completely amoral. Wikileaks has a new bunch of cables out, McCain and Liebermann promised to arm Libya in 2009
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/24/1010162/-Wikileaks:-Sens-McCain,-Lieberman-and-Graham-promised-to-help-arm-Libya-in2009

Posted by: somebody | Aug 26 2011 13:44 utc | 3

MB @ 2: Yes, as I recall, anyone who posted against the so called “liberation” of the Libyan people, were dumped on. You, b, brian, and others turned out to be right. This gig in Libya is nothing more than a resource grab of epic proportion.

Posted by: ben | Aug 26 2011 14:02 utc | 4

“…This gig in Libya is nothing more than a resource grab of epic proportion.”
It isn’t as simple as that. There are certainly powerful interests, with influence in Washington, drooling over the money to be made from Libya’s resources. But they are only one of many interest groups promoting war. There are Zionists dedicated to keeping the entire region embroiled in wars for eternity. There is the Military which says very little but it is clearly pursuing a long term policy of establishing its control over the entire planet. They are coolly rational whilst being terminally insane, the heirs to the NAZI geo-strategists.
Then of course there is the, largely distinct, Military Industrial Complex which is a congeries of log rolling, rentier, labour and other interests united around the importance of keeping production up.
The media also has interests in warmongering. So, as Professor Cole has very kindly shown us, do individuals with careers to advance for whom a little war promotion and military apology can go a long way.
Then there is the entire NATO complex, which over sixty years has become dominant in the militaries of member nations: keeping NATO going, and supplying it with live victims to feed on, is a matter of vital importance to whole layers of professional soldiers, civil servants and diplomats who sense that there really is no justification for continued military expenditure in a world where the “west” faces no military threats.
Then there are the political parties, all founded (or profoundly re-shaped) in the Cold War. They are vehicles which must keep going in the same direction or the wheels will come off. They are built for war and the narrow urgency that it implies, they could not survive in a world in which people calmly evaluated the possibilities and priorities which would allow humanity to cash its peace dividend.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 26 2011 14:49 utc | 5

Iraq was socialist – Baath, Saddam – plus nationalist. Afgh was communist, or ex-communist, and the Taliban (Pashtun peasants) were highly distributive, tribes tend to be that way. Lybia was socialist with a vengeance – with strong tinges of the USSR in its political structure and control cum distribution high on the agenda, plus pan-African-Arab of some kind… Yugoslavia..fill it in. And that is just recently, 10 years (minus Yugoslavia)!
Long parag deleted here (outlining why the US is against such regimes, heartfelt, boring, etc.) was prompted by the question I can’t answer – looking for possible relevant arguments – what happened between Jan – Feb of this year and March to lead NATO (dominated by the US..) to attack?
Attack it was, all the stuff about protection and air space was mealy mouthed sh*t.
Could the answer be that simple: Some outside- central-region rebel and/or plus contra-K faction was inspired by the Arab Spring and began making very serious moves, and thus an opportunity presented itself? Is that it? Is that all?
I remember Kadafi’s capitulation on Lockerbie, which was imho a mistake. it presented a submissive and over-friendly face to the West and a traitorous, smarmy leader to the inside. Abysmal.
His management of children’s AIDS – Bulgarian nurses crises was ludicrous, although it’s possible that public sentiment in Lybia was on his side on that one – but even if so, it was a misguided, minor yet noisy, and self-defeating attack on foreignors. (K could have paid compensation to the families from the State, and said, never happen again. I’m sure Lybian nurses didn’t like this story at all.)
His opening up of the ‘economy’ under W pressure was clumsy (?), and certainly riled many Lybians, as state stipends were lowered/cancelled and employment, self-realisation, was a problem – there the devil is in the details, and without on the ground knowledge and a lot of serious numbers it is really impossible to judge. My own opinion of his actions in this area is negative, not on the opening/closing matter which was an internal Lybia affair and all situations differ – but his handling seemed off.
His giving up WMD (a euphemism for an efficient, standing large army, ready to defend, as i see it) was commendable within a larger frame, but also naive, and probably again a bad decision as seen from the inside.
Is K just another case of pandering to the West until it is not enough and you get blasted and killed (if possible, certainly bomb your family..) ?
add:: thx to all psters w nws frm lybia, story is byond my comprehension for the mo.

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 26 2011 15:32 utc | 6

Alex Thomson (UK’s Channel 4 News journalist) is in Tripoli’s Abu Salim district. He went to the areas hospital 5 hours ago says the hospital has become a morgue with almost no medical supplies and no more room for the dead.
He also tweeted 4 hours ago that the water supply to most of Tripoli had just been cut off and taps were not working.
http://blogs.channel4.com/world-news-blog/the-horror-of-abu-salim/18014
Also while South Africa has agreed to release funds, the African Union (AU) has just voted to not recognise the Rebel Council without peace talks. Last night Algeria which borders Libya refused to recognise the Rebel government.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2011/08/algeria-not-recognizing-libyan-rebel-government-fears-al-qaeda-ties.html
Also yesterday a UN Security Council meeting on Syria to discuss sanctions didn’t go well with Russia and China refusing to even take part. “The Russian and Chinese seats were empty. They sent no one.” said one UN diplomat.
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world/russia-china-boycott-syria-sanction-talks-at-un-security-council/story-e6frfkui-1226122604525

Posted by: Colm O’ Toole | Aug 26 2011 16:25 utc | 7

by the way, the rebels now are about to kill their own people in Sirte …

Posted by: somebody | Aug 26 2011 18:04 utc | 8

You have to love the double-speak terminology, don’t ya? One person’s Rebel is another person’s Terrorist. Insurgent and Freedom Fighter are juxtaposed in much the same way. If you’re “With Us,” you’re either a Rebel or a Freedom Fighter, and if you’re “Against Us,” you’re either an Insurgent or a Terrorist. Funny how that works, and who gets to choose the terms and why.
And Bevin, yes, of course, it’s more complex than just saying it’s about resources, but it’s impracticable to cart out your complex explanation every time a war breaks out to describe its ultimate motivation. If you are at Sea Level, your explanation is an appropriate observation of the detail, but when you’re flying at 50,000 feet, it’s all about the resources, one way or another, in a general sense. Every dimension of complexity you provided can be traced back to the rubric of “resource expropriation.” It is the Hallmark of Civilization.

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Aug 26 2011 19:18 utc | 9

Yes, Morocco, so true about the labeling and who controls it. And let’s not forget the time-honored “guerilla” and “militant” terms for the ones we (i.e. USG and allies) don’t like.

Posted by: Maxcrat | Aug 27 2011 2:04 utc | 10

it is complete criminal idiocy. NATO seems to have opened the can on an Arab/African tribal/country conflict on oil resources. expect this to be a 100 year war.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 27 2011 7:16 utc | 11

Indeed Maxcrat, @#10
“The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words.”
–Philip K. Dick
Welcome to Post-Legal America.

Is the Libyan war legal? Was Bin Laden’s killing legal? Is it legal for the president of the United States to target an American citizen for assassination? Were those “enhanced interrogation techniques” legal? These are all questions raised in recent weeks. Each seems to call out for debate, for answers. Or does it?
… “Is it legal?” is the wrong question to be asking,..

Another mass use of the ‘Delphi Technique’ is to get em to ask the wrong questions…
Note: Look up my archived explanation of the Delphi Technique here @ MOA specifically, not googles explanation of it. Also, Googles MOA archive search engine is blocking my quarries, yet again so I can’t link to it.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Aug 27 2011 7:21 utc | 12

Uncle $cam: try this google search query – or paste in a google search: “Delphi Technique” site:moonofalabama.org.
(that is basically the same as the MoA search box, but the MoA search box returns a Google error page:

We’re sorry…
… but your computer or network may be sending automated queries. To protect our users, we can’t process your request right now.

Posted by: philippe | Aug 27 2011 7:47 utc | 13

ahem, try 2: google search query

Posted by: philippe | Aug 27 2011 7:49 utc | 14

Thanks, philippe…
The Delphi Technique and consensus building

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Aug 27 2011 8:00 utc | 15

Hana Kadafi, toddler, daughter, was killed “by Reagan” in the bombing of Bab-al-Zayiya, 1986. An important part of the history of US-Lybia relations.
Not true.
I’ve known this for a while, but wasn’t 100% certain. During the two Swiss hostages story (goog: Max Goldi) CH blocked entry into CH (and thus all of the EU, Schengen accords) of all K’s family, the ministers in his Gvmt., and various hangers on, about 50 ppl in all. Hana was on that list. The reporting journalist made a one sentence comment; Hana is, according to the Swiss authorities, alive. Some months later, CH blocked a whole bunch of Lybian bank accounts – all this is well before the events of 2011 – and Hana had a bank account in CH. Or several, I forget now.
Hana is the Director General of Tripoli’s main hospital. She disappeared some days ago, according to Swiss press.

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 27 2011 8:29 utc | 16

somewhere in the papers Noirette, it was said that it was a well known fact in Libya that Gaddafi adopted a second daughter after the first one’s death and called her Hana. they are bound to be stupid propagandists but not that stupid. it still can be one and the same Hana of course.
the water in Tripoli comes from Sebha? Good luck.
http://www.frontiermea.com/comment-details.php?id=30

Posted by: somebody | Aug 27 2011 8:57 utc | 17

I see H. Irene is coming to the rescue, I hope it does unto America what they have done to the people of Libya.

Posted by: hans | Aug 27 2011 9:09 utc | 18

hans you are a fundamentalist. Christians are supposed to wish well for everybody including their enemies.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 27 2011 10:15 utc | 19

Libyan rebels prepare to attack Sirte after Nato raids
Tanks, heavy artillery and rocket launchers abandoned by fleeing Gaddafi forces are being assembled for attack

Rebel units were massing for an attack on Sirte, Muammar Gaddafi’s birthplace, on Friday after Nato warplanes conducted intensive bombing raids to weaken one of the last major redoubts controlled by the ousted regime.
On the road to Sirte from Misrata, tanks, heavy artillery and rocket launchers abandoned by fleeing government forces were being assembled for the attack.
Rebels said a British and French special forces team was helping co-ordinate the assault, in which Misrata-based units will push eastwards to meet forces from Benghazi fighting their way westwards.

Protecting civilians ….

Posted by: b | Aug 27 2011 10:40 utc | 20

Christians are supposed to wish well for everybody including their enemies.

Tell that to the Vietnamese, Afghans and millions others who died.

Posted by: hans | Aug 27 2011 10:41 utc | 21

I said, “are supposed to” Hans …
this water thing
http://www.emirates247.com/news/world/rebels-deny-tripoli-water-supply-cut-despite-shortages-2011-08-27-1.415311
ceasefire anyone?

Posted by: somebody | Aug 27 2011 11:13 utc | 22

nato killers have carpet bombed the city of Sirte: killing 37 civilians

Posted by: brian | Aug 27 2011 13:58 utc | 23

cdoebbler curtis doebbler
by SydWalker
#Libya: US says it will block any attempt to investigate it or NATO for the widespread violations of international law they are accused of.
16 hours ago
Syd Walker
SydWalker Syd Walker
@
@abcnews PLEASE publicize dire fate of genuine independent journalists stranded in Tripoli, now threatened by ‘rebels’ @jonaholmesMW #auspol
12 hours ago

Posted by: brian | Aug 27 2011 14:00 utc | 24

I’ll never forget, being raised a Catholic, the choir singing the following in Mass. Of course, I’m a strong Agnostic now, and anti-religious at this point, but I’ll never cease to throw this up in the “Christians” faces when they Warmonger….which is pretty much always these days, and all days, for that matter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq1nmMOzjSs&feature=related
It should read, “They Will Know We Are Christians By Our Bombs, By Our Bombs.”
Or, “They Will Know We Are Christians By Our Occupations, By Our Occupations.”
Or, “They Will Know We Are Christians By Our Militant Resource Expropriations, By Our Militant Resource Expropriations.”
Obviously, the majority don’t even get it when I do this, or if they do, they try to rationalize and justify the Militancy.

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Aug 27 2011 14:13 utc | 25

> somebody, afaik, the original Hana was adopted in any case, and there is/was only one. But who knows.

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 27 2011 16:56 utc | 26

morocco bama that is not a catholic song you are linking to, that is from one of the nicer protestant sects, who had to leave Europe.
Catholics would have burnt you on the stakes for heresy in the Middle Ages, if you maintained you and god were one.
Catholicism is about authority, there is priest, bishop and pope between you and god, so catholic songs would praise the lord, wish for redemption and so on …
a 30 years war was fought devastating the whole of central Europe because of this …

Posted by: somebody | Aug 27 2011 20:15 utc | 27

somebody, it may not have been a “Catholic” song, but they were singing it in the Catholic Church, and either way, it’s a song about Christians, regardless of sect. If I recollect, the Puritans who burned all those “Evil” witches weren’t Catholic, but their Love was surely on display, as it was on display in their actions towards the Spawn of Satan, Savage Indians.

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Aug 27 2011 20:49 utc | 28

oh Morocco Bama where to start …
there is a huge difference between Catholics and Protestants in their outlook on life, and some sociologists connect capitalism with protestantism …
anyway talking of a different religion
the New York Times quotes the new membership list of the TNC like this
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/28/world/africa/28benghazi.html
“The list released Saturday, of a council expanded to 40 members, did not appear to support that concern. Most of its members were relative unknowns. The only known Islamist on the list is Lamin Bel Haj, described by politicians in Benghazi as a member of the previously banned Muslim Brotherhood, which most Libyans regard as moderates. Mr. Bel Haj was described as taking charge of Tripoli for the rebels, and was one of five Tripoli names on the new council.”
I am pretty sure the guy is Abdelhakim Belhaj (alias Abu Abdallah Al Sadek) leader of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group as described here
http://www.pvtr.org/pdf/Report/RSIS_Libya.pdf
the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group and their complex relationship with Al Queida, the US, Britain, London and Manchester, is described here
http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=308
so why does the New York Times a) change the name, so that he cannot be googled, b) does not check?

Posted by: somebody | Aug 27 2011 21:56 utc | 29

god damn all these motherfucking war lovers and blood drinkers to hell……….. Obama most of all.
I am so sick of seeing the US massacre innocent people year after year after year.

Posted by: Susan | Aug 28 2011 2:07 utc | 30

@Susan | Aug 27, 2011 10:07:25 PM
H. Irene is just the beginning, this year is slated to be the most destructive hurricane season ever, coupled with many economic woes soon to hit the land of the free your wish will be granted sooner then you expected. Have faith, what goes round comes around.

Posted by: hans | Aug 28 2011 4:24 utc | 31

“The American government, for its part, officially designated LIFG as a terrorist organization. Although LIFG does not have a presence in the United States, the Bush administration’s designation is not merely symbolic. For starters, it means that any state providing assistance to LIFG can potentially be designated a state sponsor of terrorism by the U.S. State Department. More importantly, it means that any member of LIFG living in undemocratic countries backed by the United States (e.g. Pakistan, Egypt) runs the risk of arrest and “rendition” back to Libya.
That Britain has not designated LIFG a terrorist organization is significant, as several prominent leaders of the group continue to live in London and Manchester. All of them strongly deny any affiliation with al-Qaeda and are keen to emphasize that LIFG has never carried out an attack outside Libya or against civilians. [7] This may be technically true. One member of LIFG living in Britain was jailed for sixteen months without charge after he allegedly sent money to a suspected al-Qaeda member, but was eventually released because the government failed to present concrete evidence of criminal activity in court. According to the U.S. State Department, LIFG was “involved in planning and facilitating” the May 2003 bombings in Casablanca, but the suspects in this case were non-Libyan members of the Fighting Islamic Group in Morocco (FIGM). Although the two groups are almost certainly linked by more than ideological affinity, the U.S. government has never released information clarifying their relationship. ”
http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=308

Posted by: somebody | Aug 28 2011 6:41 utc | 32

not so, somebody: LIFG HAS been designated by the UK as a terrorist organisation
and also in US!
Terrorist Groups
The United States designated the LIFG a Foreign Terrorist Organization in
December 2004. …
http://www.jerusalemonmymind.com/terrorist%20groups.html
so, somebody, take that back to your insurgent buddies!

Posted by: brian | Aug 28 2011 22:08 utc | 33