Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 21, 2011

WaPo Pulls Number Of Dead From Hot Air

At least 32 killed as Syrian troops open fire headlines the Washington Post:

BEIRUT — Defying a stern warning from President Obama, Syrian forces opened fire on protesters after Friday prayers, killing at least 32 people as the regime led by President Bashar al-Assad showed no sign of easing its military crackdown.

But the piece does not explain when, where and under what circumstances those 32 have supposedly died. There is not one bit of information in the piece about this. In which cities did this happen? Who opened fire? When was this? Where is that number coming from?

In addition to the 32 deaths, about 200 people were injured by gunfire aimed at protesters, and the toll could rise, said Tarif, the human rights activist.

That would be one "Wissam Tarif of the human rights group Insan". Insan is an organization in Spain with a website that does not say much about the group. There is especially no say who is funding it. The FAQ on the side only has this:

[S]ince 2009 INSAN has re-strategized its approach, turning, instead to project partners and funding institutions for support.

No project partner or institution is listed. This organization could be a front for about anything. I have no idea why any decent journalist would trust it especially when it throws out numbers without any factual backing.

The group claims to have grown out of other organisations:

INSAN began in 2001 as an awareness and educational project in Syria under the name ‘LCCI.’

and

The lobbying and opinion-forming organization which was born from this endeavor was to be called ‘FDPOC’ (Foundation for the Defense of Prisoners of Conscience).

There is no trace on the Internets of LCCI and an FDPOC link to FDPOC.com in an Wikipedia article is dead. The current nameserver for FDPOC.com is NS1.SUSPENDED-FOR.SPAM-AND-ABUSE.COM. I find one Syria bashing piece from 2008 that mentions FDPOC and Wissam Tarif.

My hunch is that Wissan Tarif and INSAN are front for some intelligence service.

But the Post doesn't bother. Some numbers thrown around of some people killed in Syria, no matter from where, seems to be enough for a big headline and a piece which doesn't back it up.

Posted by b on May 21, 2011 at 6:22 UTC | Permalink

Comments

Tarif also seems to appear on CNN and youtube.

Posted by: Jaundist | May 21 2011 9:31 utc | 1

That's very true. The factual basis for reports of what's happening in Syria is very weak, and drawn by all the media entirely from the claims of the opposition, who are obviously going to inflate the figures.

It's not only the WaPo, all the western media are doing the same thing. The level of analysis is extremely poor, let alone the facts.

Personally, I would doubt that INSAN is a front, it's just part of the opposition in exile. Though it may be being funded by the US in one way or another. It is pretending to be a human rights group (INSAN means 'Man' in Arabic), but it isn't.

The only real facts you get out are what you see on video. And that is considerably less dramatic than the reports. In my case, I also get information from a stack of Syrian students here, though what they say also has to be interpreted, as they have scholarships from the Syrian government.

Posted by: alexno | May 21 2011 10:37 utc | 2

Its posts like this that made your earlier "retirement" such a loss.

Posted by: mo | May 21 2011 15:34 utc | 3

Amazing how Media spreads propaganda.....todays headline in the New Jersey Record "Israeli Leader Calls Peace Terms 'Indefensible'" and below a picture (almost a half page in size) of Israeli troops patrolling along the border between Israel and Syria in full battle gear, clustered together - breaking every military patrol rule, with high barbed wire fences which no human could scale. And in the local section a featured article with photos extolling the virtues of visiting Israeli army veterans visiting a local high school.....?????

Posted by: georgeg | May 21 2011 15:59 utc | 4

Anthony Shadid in the New York Times:

Wissam Tarif, executive director of Insan, a Syrian human rights group, said he had interviewed young men tortured just days ago. One of them, who had his fingernails pulled out, had taken a lead in the protests on Friday in Baniyas.

Posted by: Frank | May 21 2011 22:20 utc | 5

Please b, do not comment on what you do not know about. You are out of your league when talking about Syria.

You say that there is no info about wissam, but a simple google search found the wiki link and it WORKS. How come it works now and it did not work when you searched for it? Did you really search for it. Here it is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wissam_Tarif

It tells you everything about Wissam. He has been interrogated 17 times by Syrian Mukhabart. Have you ever been interrogated by them, b? I have and it is not fun. You would probably shit your pants if you were ever interrogated by them.

Please stop posting on this issue. You are losing your credibility, FAST.

Posted by: ndahi | May 22 2011 1:36 utc | 6

more on the fdpoc that you could not find info on

http://lobbying-fdpoc.blogspot.com/
http://reformsyria.org/ngos/fdpoc-accuses-eu-commissioner-of-abandoning-conscience

Two article mentioning fdpoc and no mention of US govt funding or support.

Posted by: ndahi | May 22 2011 1:43 utc | 7

Wissam's associates are Samir Kassir who was a LEFTIST until he was killed.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=ie7&q=samir+kassir&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7ACAW

another associate of Wissam is in a Syrian prison

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=ie7&q=Kamal+al-Labwani&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7ACAW

Wissam does not sound to me as a CIA stooge as your hunch suggests.

Posted by: ndahi | May 22 2011 1:52 utc | 8

So Wissam is NOT Syrian. Born in Lebanon, raised in South America and then goes back and is involved in democracy movement. I did not see any mention of source of funding on the links given by ndahi. Could be he is legit, could be he is a stooge for CIA or some right-wing group. There is no way to tell.

As mentioned in the article above:BEIRUT — Defying a stern warning from President Obama, Syrian forces opened fire on protesters after Friday prayers, killing at least 32 people as the regime led by President Bashar al-Assad showed no sign of easing its military crackdown.
But the piece does not explain when, where and under what circumstances those 32 have supposedly died. There is not one bit of information in the piece about this. In which cities did this happen? Who opened fire? When was this? Where is that number coming from?

This is at best (at best) very shoddy reporting. What, when, where these are basic questions that aren't answered. So at best Wissam is a very shoddy reporter. When you add to it that the Western powers have an axe to grind and he happens to be giving them the right political ammunition (anyone remember Chalabi? ) it smells bad and none of the links you give help answer the question about his source of funding (as someone said 'follow the money'). Chalabi btw was on the US payroll when he just happened to be giving all the right 'made up' dirt on Saddam and we all know how that turned out.

Posted by: Khalid | May 22 2011 4:57 utc | 9

@ndahi


Please stop posting on this issue. You are losing your credibility, FAST.

Let us readers make our own judgement, or do you want to pay me to think like you I can send a paypal account if you want!

Posted by: hans | May 22 2011 7:14 utc | 10

@ndahi

some of us look at the company people keep when forming an opinion or guessing where they stand on issues. looking at the reformsyria site I see right off the bat two well known writers with very well known neocon positions...i.e., Judith Miller and Michael Ladeen.

the old saying of birds of feather flock together is correct more often than not.

though I try not to let it influence my outlook, it is hard to believe that enemy of my enemy is also my enemy. I am not saying that he is necessarily my friend, but not having anything else to dislike or hate him for than the written word of an opposition group to an established state is an impediment to some people. others, like yourself are happy to hear what you want to hear from corporate media.

are you helping hasbara in their task of forming public opinion?

Posted by: dan of steele | May 22 2011 10:20 utc | 11

Yeah, reformsyria.org has a special section of MEMRI links in its right column. Automatically untrustworthy, MEMRI having done so much to publish deliberately mistranslated Arabic materials.

Posted by: alexno | May 22 2011 14:05 utc | 12

hans @ 10 :"Let us readers make our own judgement"

Yes!

ndahi, thanks for the links.

Posted by: ben | May 22 2011 15:35 utc | 13

"But the piece does not explain when, where and under what circumstances those 32 have supposedly died."

Exactly, b

Posted by: ben | May 22 2011 15:39 utc | 14

"ndahi" you need to go back and read what b actually wrote, because it ain't what you are claiming he wrote

You said

You say that there is no info about wissam, but a simple google search found the wiki link and it WORKS. How come it works now and it did not work when you searched for it? Did you really search for it.

but what b actually wrote is

There is no trace on the Internets of LCCI and an FDPOC link to FDPOC.com in an Wikipedia article is dead. The current nameserver for FDPOC.com is NS1.SUSPENDED-FOR.SPAM-AND-ABUSE.COM. I find one Syria bashing piece from 2008 that mentions FDPOC and Wissam Tarif.

as I read it, b is commenting on the lack of info relating to LCCI, FDPOC and INSAN, and NOT on any lack of info relating to Wassam Tarif alone.

So rather than commenting on what you think b said, it would probably be best if you just tried to stick to commenting on what b actually said, and that way you'd look less of an intemperate trigger-happy ass

Posted by: Hu Bris | May 23 2011 10:22 utc | 15

@ dan of steel. What about the company that Wissam keeps? Since you seem to judge people/org. by the company they keep, then what about Samir Kassir and Labwani? One of them was assasinated and the other is roting in a Syrian jail? Does that not give him and his organization INSAN credibility?

Posted by: ndahi | May 23 2011 15:49 utc | 16

@ Hu Bris. You are corrrect, but I did follow it up with a link about fdpoc which b said does not exist on the net. Apparently you missed that post. Thanks for calling me an ass. Your name fits.

Posted by: ndahi | May 23 2011 15:53 utc | 17

http://maidhcocathail.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/if-arab-spring-threatens-israel-why-does-saban-support-it/
EXCERPT:
US State Dept Middle East Partnership Initiative (MEPI)

"According to a Mar 12 report in the WaPo detailing US support for Arab democrats, USAID grants “proved vital to activists in a half-dozen Arab lands,” financing, for example, the training by groups such as the National Democratic Institute (NDI), the International Republican Institute (IRI) and Freedom House of up to 80% of the leaders of the Egyptian uprising.

MEPI, according to an Apr 18 WaPo report, has funneled up to $6m to Syrian opposition groups since 2006.


MEPI is currently headed by Tamara Wittes, formerly director of the Haim Saban Center’s Middle East Democracy and Development (MEDD) Project."


btw: - Haim Saban cares deeply about Israel. After all, the Egyptian-born Israeli-US media mogul has admitted to the NYT, “I’m a one-issue guy and my issue is Israel.” A New Yorker profile last year elaborated:

His greatest concern, he says, is to protect Israel, by strengthening the US-Israel relationship. At a conference last fall in Israel, Saban described his formula. His “three ways to be influential in US politics,” he said, were: make donations to political parties, establish think tanks, and control media outlets.

"ndahi" but I did follow it up with a link about fdpoc . . . . .

b's comment related to FDPOC and it's backers, who provides FUNDING - he specifically mentioned that the link on Wiki leading to FDPOC is a dead-link - http://www.fdpoc.com/ - you can try it for yourself, if you can spare the time from posting press releases which are utterly irrelevant to the subject matter and which prove absolutely nothing

since you seem to be struggling to understand this fairly simple point I'll elaborate - the phrase "FDPOC funding" refers to the thorny question of "Who Provides FDPOC with the money to do what they do?" - Your link does not provide any information concerning the source of FDPOC financing for their activities.

My link, posted above, on the other hand, while not specifically naming FDPOC, does give some indication as to the sort of people who might be funding FDPOC - whereas your FDPOCc link leads to a site which references a whole host of Neo-Con/ZioCon blood-thirsty racist nutjobs such as:

Caroline Glick - Racist zionist Jerusalem Post editor

Michael Ledeen - Racist zionist NeoCon liar and nutjob

Prof. Bernard Lewis - racist Zionist 'Clash of Civilisations' nutjob

Judith Miller - disgraced & discredited ex-NYTimes fellatial-stenographer & Proven liar


Posted by: Hu Bris | May 23 2011 17:23 utc | 18

ndahi,

it seems to me that the people Wissam associates with lead quite dangerous lives. They apparently were leftists and/or communists. to use those people now to somehow legitimize Wissam is really grasping for straws.

I hate to break it to you, but the US government and most western european governments have treated commies and lefties pretty harshly in the last 60 to 70 years. the list is a long one of populists who have died while speaking out or writing about established authoritarian regimes.

so you seem to want it both ways, we should accept the story that Wissam is a good guy speaking out about the Syrian regime AND we should trust WAPO to report the truth based on word of well known opponent of the regime. Would you not agree that Wissam is biased in his reporting and that WAPO is also biased in its reporting? How are you to determine what is really happening when you already know the information is slanted in one direction or the other?

let's see some other sources for these stories. maybe some Arabic papers or at least a non european news source. then, maybe one can get a better understanding of what is going on.

Posted by: dan of steele | May 23 2011 17:35 utc | 19

Hu Bris,

The first part of your post does NOT relate to what I posted about. Still, I will comment about the Syrian opposition groups getting money from the US. In another article simiar to the telegragh that you posted, it is mentioned that none of the opposition groups INSIDE Syria took money from the US. This is from Common Dreams a progressive website:

But no dissidents inside Syria were willing to take the money, for fear it would lead to their arrest or execution for treason, according to a 2006 cable from the U.S. Embassy, which reported that “no bona fide opposition member will be courageous enough to accept funding.”

I think you are the one that needs to read better and not me. Here is a quote from b's post:

[quote]There is no trace on the Internets of LCCI and an FDPOC link to FDPOC.com in an Wikipedia article is dead. The current nameserver for FDPOC.com is NS1.SUSPENDED-FOR.SPAM-AND-ABUSE.COM. I find one Syria bashing piece from 2008 that mentions FDPOC and Wissam Tarif.[/quote]

The word funding (which you type in bold for effect) is not even mentioned in the quote. notice he mentions FDPOC but he does not mention FUNDING for it. Funding is used, however, in conjunction with INSAN. FDPOC and INSAN are not one and the same. They are related, but not the same.

Reformsyria.org only provided the link to the FDPOC article. I agree with you that the reform party of syria is an expat right wing organization. But let us say I linked to an article that was ONLY found on reformsyria.org, does that mean that FDPOC is endorsed by reformsyria.org. Hardly? I was just responding to what b said about the lack of info about FDPOC. Obviously, there is info but he did not take the time to find it.

The first link that I posted about fdpoc shows the organizations that fdpoc lobbies. They seem to lobby EVERYONE, Democrat and Republican, Amnesty, HRW, etc... It is hardly a front organization for the CIA. http://lobbying-fdpoc.blogspot.com/

Posted by: ndahi | May 24 2011 15:33 utc | 20

Here is the link to the article that says that no groups in Syria got money from the US

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/04/18-0

Posted by: ndahi | May 24 2011 15:34 utc | 21

dan of steele,

I am perfectly aware about the US govt's record, so there is really no need to go there. your preaching to the choir.

B's reproting on this issue seems to be slanted against the protestors in Syria. In one post he mentions that the protestors are somehow Islamists in orientation or driven by Rifaat (Hafiz a-Asad brother) and Khaddam (former PM under the elder Asad) and what does he site as evidence, A blog post from a blogger specializing in Chinese issues. Give me a break!!! Come on B, you are better than that. Next he will be citing the official Govt. owned al-Thawra and Tishreen newspapers!!! If you read these papers (and I do), they are pretty much in line to what b is saying. They run stories about foreign conspiracies and Islamists trying to destabilize Syria. According to these papers, it is the demonstrators that aare doing the killing and shooting at the police and the army.

He repeats the same pattern in other posts on Syria. This post is part of a pattern. IMO, b is not simply criticizing wapo, he is also casting doubt on the demonstrators and their legitimacy. This is probabbly the third post that he has done that. He is, unwittingly, repeating the Syrian govt. line about these demonstrators.

Posted by: ndahi | May 24 2011 15:50 utc | 22

"The word funding (which you type in bold for effect) is not even mentioned in the quote. notice he mentions FDPOC but he does not mention FUNDING for it."

oh dear, oh dear.. . . .

Since b's comment regarding these groups all relate to their provenience, I can't say for sure, but I suppose he presumed that readers were smart enough to work out for themselves that that would of course include funding, without him having to explicitly say so - seems he was wrong to assume that all of his readership were smart enough to work that out for themselves, if your reaction is anything to go by.

bad b, bad.

"the first link that I posted about fdpoc shows the organizations that fdpoc lobbies. They seem to lobby EVERYONE, Democrat and Republican, Amnesty, HRW, etc... It is hardly a front organization for the CIA. ">http://lobbying-fdpoc.blogspot.com/"

this is nothing but ridiculously circular pseudo-logic - since they lobby everyone they couldn't be a CIA-funded front organisation lobbying for regime-change in Syria? . . . . . . seriously, that's a retarded argument.

Posted by: Hu Bris | May 24 2011 16:15 utc | 23

Here is the link to the article that says that no groups in Syria got money from the US

That is a rather incomplete summary of the contents of that article - the article actually goes on to say:

" . . . according to a 2006 cable from the U.S. Embassy"

So that statement of yours refers only to events up to 2006.

In fact the article goes on to say:

"It is unclear whether the State Department is still funding Syrian opposition groups, but the cables indicate money was set aside at least through September 2010. While some of that money has also supported programs and dissidents inside Syria, The Washington Post is withholding certain names and program details at the request of the State Department, which said disclosure could endanger the recipients’ personal safety."

now an un-biased and honest person would note that money was still being set aside for Pro-US/Anti-Syrian groups up to September 2010 - it is not very likely that they would still keep doing that if no Syrian group were willing to take the money - and that the article clearly states that

"It is unclear whether the State Department is still funding Syrian opposition groups, "
and makes no distinction after that statement relating to groups in Syria or groups outside of Syria, so your rather concrete-sounding assertion that
"no groups in Syria got money from the US"
is not in anyway an honest summary of the contents of that CommonDreams article.

And you call b 'biased'?

Posted by: Hu Bris | May 24 2011 17:57 utc | 24

There's a lack of logic here: ndahi gives us a link saying that groups inside Syria would not accept money, up to 2006 (I can believe that). But Wissam Tarif is not in Syria, nor are any of the activists who are making so much noise at present. So they could well be being financed. Indeed it seems to me quite likely. If they can send all that stuff into Syria.

Posted by: alexno | May 24 2011 21:19 utc | 25

the same link also clearly says

"While some of that money has also supported programs and dissidents inside Syria,"

Posted by: Hu Bris | May 24 2011 22:06 utc | 26

Hu Bris,

b's reproting on this issue has problems:

He supports the demonstrators in Tunis and Egypt, but not in Syria. Why? I would like to know? Wouldn't you? He seems to think that Syria is a bulwark against US/Israeli imperialism. I assure you that Syria is NOT. The Baath regime in Syria is a minority based sectarian regime that has ZERO interest in confronting the US or Israel. The Golan heights front has been the quietest front since the 1973 Arab-Israeli war. Rami Makhlouf, who is a brother in-law of Asad's was interviewed in the NY times and said point blank that the secuirty of Israel is part of the secuirty of Syria.

“If there is no stability here, there’s no way there will be stability in Israel,” he said in an interview Monday that lasted more than three hours. “No way, and nobody can guarantee what will happen after, God forbid, anything happens to this regime.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/world/middleeast/11makhlouf.html

Does that sound like a regime that has even the slightest interest in confronting Israel? Does it? Really? Makhlouf is telling the US not to pressure the Asad regime since doing so would destabilize Israel. Fuck that, I WANT Israel to be DESTABILIZED. And I want a regime that seeks instability in that apartheid state. Why are you and b and some others defending a regime that wants to accomodate Israel is beyond me!!!

The Syrian Baath regime did its utmost to undermine the Lebanese National Movement in Lebanon. This was a progressive multi-confessional secular movement that was about to win the civil war in Lebanon. And what does the Asad regime do? It enters Lebanon's civil war on the side of the most regressive right wing elements, the Christian Phalangist (Kataeb and Ahrar Party). It attacks the Palestinians in Lebanon and destroys the last hope for a secular Lebanon.

I do not understand why a progressivve like b is supporting the regressive baath regime of Syria. Is the Baath regime in Syria a democracy? No. Does the Baath regime have elements of democracy in it that are worth defending like in Iran? No. Is Syria confronting Israel and standing up to its bullying? No. Did the Syrian Baath regime retalliate against Israel when Israeli fighter planes attacked an alleged Nuclear power plant in Syria? No.

Is the Syrian Baath regime still following the original socialist principles of the Baath Part? No. They have given up on these principles and are implementing neo-liberal economic reforms. Reforms that have impoverished the Arab people in almost every country they were applied. Here is some data to chew on:

Govt. consumption as a share of GDP fell from 24.5% to 13.5% (1984 to 2009)
Egyptian youth unemployment in 2009 was 26%.
Poverty in Syria is increasing rapidly as the neo-liberal reforms bite into people's eraning http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/jul2010/soci-j13.shtml This is from the World Socialist Web Site.
The cost of living is sky high especially in real estate making Damascus number 8 in the list of most expensive cities in the World.
Food and fuel subsidies have been rolled back as a result of neo-liberal economic reforms.

I can go on and on and on....but you get the idea. This is a repressive, kleptocratic regime that is NOT confronting Imperialism and has no interest in promoting the well being of the Syrian people.

So I ask b and you and everyone else, why are you defending the Baath regime?

Posted by: ndahi | May 24 2011 23:01 utc | 27

I mean to say Syrian youth unemployment. Typing too fast.

Posted by: ndahi | May 24 2011 23:03 utc | 28

Alexano,

Would you stay in Syria if you were interrogated 17 times by Syrian intelligence?

Here is my little story:

My dad passed away in Lebanon and he was buried in his home village in Syria. I have a Syrian passport and i went back to visit his grave in Syria. Syria being the repressive society that its is, you are not allowed to leave w/o an exit visa from the govt. (BTW, b would you like to be treated like that in Germany? Do you need an exit visa to leave? Why not come and try it in Syria?)

The govt refused to give me an exit visa. They dragged me in to the Mukhabarat (intelligence services) to interrogate me and they did that for a few days. I was not beaten or harmed, but they were asking me all kind of stupid questions. What was my CRIME? I was studying Political Science for my PhD at USC in the US. That was my crime!!! They wanted to know if I engaged in any subversive activities in the US against Syria. Really!!! Seriously!!! They finally gave me the visa and told me to leave Syria (my COUNTRY) in 15 days.

I felt so belittled and humiliated. The average Syrian has to deal with this SHIT EVERY FUCKING DAY OF HIS LIFE.

Do any of you who are defending the regime have to deal with such SHIT in your life? Do you alexano? How about Hu Bris? How about you b?

It is very easy to pontificate on the web w/o spending ONE day in the life of a humiliated Syrian.

Posted by: ndahi | May 24 2011 23:16 utc | 29

your

1)unwillingness to address the points made by both myself and Dan, and alexno

2)ridiculous assertion that b pointing out probable US/CIA setting-up and financing of Anti-Assad Front-groups makes b 'Pro-Assad',

3)use of what amounts to 'emotion-laden hearsay' (it's the intarwebs, none of what you say can be verified) in an pretty lame attempt to provide a smokescreen for your unwillingness to respond rationally when others have pointed out glaring holes in the 'logic' of your arguments,


are all duly noted

Posted by: hu bris | May 26 2011 11:55 utc | 30

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/05/seige-of-syria.html

"The coverage by the corporate-owned Western media exclusively relies on “activists inside and outside the country,” eg:

the London-based “Syrian Human Rights Monitoring Centre”, which apparently has no web presence,

the Damascus Center for Human Rights, which boasts memberships with the National Endowment for Democracy and Tides Foundation-funded International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH) and the Coalition for the International Criminal Court, funded by the EU, the Ford Foundation, the MacArthur Foundation, the Open Society Institute, the Sigrid Rausing Trust, and Humanity United...........

.......These so-called “human rights activists” are entirely funded by, and predominantly based in London and Washington. It would be an understatement to say the “Syrian opposition” has the backing of the very corporations that have been striving for regime change in Syria for at least two decades. These are the same corporations and foundations behind the various think-tanks that are the true architects of Western foreign policy. It should be no surprise then that these “activists,” or more accurately, these “agents” behind the Syrian unrest are providing the precise narrative and pretext required to implement increased Western involvement toward the goal of regime change, at the expense of many unwitting, well intentioned people’s lives. .........

........NED-funded Reporters Without Borders recently compiled a list of "Journalists targeted by governments desperate to control news," which included Syria, citing the mysterious London-based Syrian Human Rights Monitoring Centre, while the Soros/Ford Foundation-funded Human Rights Watch cited the above mentioned Damascus Center for Human Rights regarding "alleged deaths." And it is these "activists" that are cited by not only by globalist-funded organizations but also the majority of the corporate-owned media, where each sentence is punctuated by "activists say," or the very groups above are mentioned by name."

Loads of Links in the source document

Posted by: hu bris | May 26 2011 14:42 utc | 31

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