Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 3, 2011
Open Questions On The Alleged Bin Laden Kill

There are a lot of open questions about the recent U.S. operation in Pakistan.

Politico notes that the administration is already changing significant parts on the story for example about the involvement of women as "human shields" (a phrase which is usually a hint to propaganda nonsense): White House modifies Osama bin Laden account.

At least four involved helicopters starting in the official account from Jalalabad in Afghanistan to fly to Abbottabad in Pakistan with at least the two backups hovering for 40 minutes and then to fly back does not fit the fuel capacity of any known helicopters. It is more likely, as The Atlantic's Marc Ambinder claims, that those helos started the operation from Pakistani ground.

The extraordinary electricity outage in Abbottabad just during the operation also points to significant Pakistani involvement. The Pakistani government would of course like to keep any involvement secret as cooperation with the U.S. in such an operation would diminish its domestic standing.

Those pictured parts of a downed helicopter do not fit any known helicopter type. What is it? How was it downed? Some reports said "mechanical failure", others claimed "shot down". 

The administration's counterterrorism adviser John Brennan claimed that they would have captured Bin Laden alive it that would have been possible. That does not fit to what Attorney General Eric Holder told Congress just six weeks ago:

"Let's deal with reality," Holder said. Bin Laden "will never appear in an American courtroom."

Pressed further on that point, Holder said: "The possibility of catching him alive is infinitesimal. He will be killed by us or he will be killed by his own people so he can't be captured by us."

It also doesn't fit to what an anonymous U.S. national security official told Reuters:

"This was a kill operation," the official said, making clear there was no desire to try to capture bin Laden alive in Pakistan.

If this operation killed Osama Bin Laden it was an extrajudicial killing in breach of public international law.

There is also a lot of administration fed right wing chatter on how some Guantanamo torture confessions led to the necessary hints to find Bin Laden. That is likely just an attempt to justify such torture. The capture of the alleged Bali bomber Umar Patek in the same city, Abbottabad, in early April is much more likely to have given a lead to some hideout.

Then of course there is not even the slightest tiny bit of proof, not even an attempt to produce pictures, that Bin Laden was actually captured or killed in this operation, or was converted to crab food. Looking at the distances and the time needed to verify that the alleged dead person has been Bin Laden, how did the  alleged burying at sea happen so fast?

This whole operation seems to be more designed to create conspiracy theories than to reveal what really happened.

While I do not agree with Malooga's comment here, I concur that this was likely an operation to retire the "Bin Laden" marketing campaign which has helped to promote divisive U.S. war of terror policies over the last decade.

That does not mean that the "product" that encompasses those policies is now finished. Why should it be when it is still very profitable? A new theme will be found for a new campaign to promote exactly the same product and policy program.

There are more confusing holes in this story. Please document those and possible explanations in the comments.

Comments

The consensus reality of schadenfreude of the American people, is sickening.
The transformation of human society needed for the coming aeon must go hand-in-glove with the transformation of individual human consciousness. And vice versa. ~Buzzy krongard

Posted by: Uncle $cam | May 3 2011 19:50 utc | 1

Media Matters reports on right-wing doubts about Osama’s death, particularly on FAUX Business “Freedom Watch” with Andrew Napolitano. Similar questions, different spin.
I’m trying to stay out of the fray of the conversations spinning around me amongst my friends. The scripts have been written and executed, and are now in re-writes after opening out-of-town. Even if they release video, allegedly watched by His Hopiness, how can we know it’s not just one more action-adventure flick? I just feel sad and vaguely irritated, and I want to save my energy to develop my little garden.

Posted by: catlady | May 3 2011 20:34 utc | 2

The storyline is already changing:
Bin Laden unarmed when killed: White House | The Raw Story

WASHINGTON — Al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden was unarmed when he was shot dead by US special forces, but he tried to resist and there was a “volatile firefight,” the White House said Tuesday.

The revelation, likely to stoke anger in parts of the Muslim world, came from President Barack Obama’s spokesman Jay Carney as he provided the most detailed account yet of the Sunday night raid in Abbottabad, Pakistan.

“In the room with bin Laden, a women — bin Laden?s wife — rushed the US assaulter and was shot in the leg but not killed. Bin Laden was then shot and killed. He was not armed,” Carney said.

Posted by: Fran | May 3 2011 21:01 utc | 3

If the killing violated international law; any chance someone will charge Obama someday like Spain did with that South American dictator?

Posted by: Joseph | May 3 2011 21:45 utc | 4

Said to be the real corpse photo, not the fake photoshopped one that’s been around for a while –
http://www.tediosity.com/2011/05/03/the-real-osama-bin-laden-dead-photo/

Posted by: mistah charley, ph.d. | May 3 2011 22:01 utc | 5

There is no other way to think about all of this except as a tactic. A methodical tactic. A form of controlled collective cognitive dissonance, Edward Louis Bernays style. These psychopaths are using the chaos as a form of control, where the masses surrender and become numb so as not to give a fuck. Controlled collective anhedonia. Mass mind control.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | May 3 2011 22:26 utc | 6

skinner operant conditioning
Professor Hall Beck shows Michael Mosley how he tracked down Little Albert.

BBC The Brain A Secret History
In a compelling and at times disturbing series, Dr Michael Mosley explores the brutal history of experimental psychology.
Part 1. Mind Control
To begin, Michael traces the sinister ways this science has been used to try to control our minds.He finds that the pursuit of mind control has led to some truly horrific experiments and left many casualties in its wake. Extraordinary archive captures what happened – scientists systematically change the behaviour of children; law abiding citizens give fatal electric shocks; a gay man has electrodes implanted in his head in an attempt to turn his sexuality. Michael takes a hallucinogenic drug as part of a controlled experiment to try to understand how its mind-bending properties can change the brain. This is a scientific journey goes to the very heart of what we hold most dear – our free will, and our ability to control our own destiny.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | May 3 2011 22:36 utc | 7

eyewitness doubts Bin Laden was in his home town
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/asia/2011/05/201152161017456791.html
of course hes right

Posted by: brian | May 3 2011 22:36 utc | 8

LAST WORD on it…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | May 3 2011 22:40 utc | 9

IMHO this will join the ranks of the “dramatic rescue” of Lyndie England or of the “Iraqi masses” toppling the statue of Saddam…the real event being considerably less heroic than the made-for-media version. And the military is now bathed in glory, something that has been desperately wanted after years of unfruitful campaigns.
Pakistani involvement was almost certain. If fact, I think the US and Pakistan did a deal. Pakistan was probably holding Bin Laden as the ultimate bargaining chip. But for a long time, the US wasn’t particularly interested, because Bin Laden was more valuable alive than dead as the justification for vast military expenditures. So Pakistan just kept him until the appropriate time, which is now.
Obama knows he needs to show some significant troop reduction, or his electoral base will desert him. To achieve this, he had to deal a pre-emptive blow to the bloodthirsty right wing media narrative. Eliminating Bin Laden as an issue reduces the effectiveness of the screamers’ message of fear. You can already hear Fox trying to recalibrate its paranoia.
So Obama did a deal. Negotiations with the Taliban will proceed. Troop reductions will occur, starting this summer, in quantities large enough to satisfy the base while minimizing the overreaction of the rabid militarists.
The question here is, what did Pakistan get? Guarantees that Afghanistan will not align with India? A strategic partnership with the US, replacing the lackey status?

Posted by: JohnH | May 3 2011 22:54 utc | 10

U$–
Yup.

Posted by: DaveS | May 3 2011 23:24 utc | 11

@JohnH, you mean the rescue of Jessica Lynch. Lyndie England was the thumbs-up Abu Ghraib woman.

Posted by: bokonon | May 3 2011 23:27 utc | 12

Probably as simple as; they flew in and landed with no opposition at all. They found OBL being woken up by all the noise and commotion. The wife jumped out of bed first and started screaming at the troops and was shot in the leg. An unarmed OBL sat up in bed and they shot him in the face. Then an aid of OBL tried to come to a rescue and was shot. They loaded the body and other principals and whatever intel was lying around into the bird and flew off. An ok was given to the Pakistani troops and they came in and arrested all the rest.
All very droll and anti-climatic, sort of like a run of the mill Mafia hit in a neighborhood restaurant.

Posted by: anna missed | May 4 2011 0:52 utc | 13

Oh, and since there were apparently no wooded or vacant lots available they flew the body out to sea and deep six’d it – probably with cement shoes.

Posted by: anna missed | May 4 2011 0:56 utc | 14

Nowadays I lack the time & energy to get into lengthy debates on the minutiae of what and why the elites do what they do. I have always found that if I absorb sufficient facts from a range of sources, digest em and ruminate a little; what I end up with mostly turns out to be close to what happens. I suspect that is what most of us do but we cloak it in logic which the process frequently is – nevertheless many of the ‘facts’ are not that easy to rake through because they are so intangible. Debating all of that which is frequently based on the unsaid & unwritten signals people send out – euphemistically called ‘body language’ if only it were that simple – is no easy task because it takes more than time to go back work through thought process, ya have to recreate the process simultaneously making ‘logic jumps’ whilst recording the logic jump. The second time thru there isn’t any reward, no ‘tingling’ at the recognition of making a new connection.
Which is why I left the gwot is working point of view unanswered yesterday or Monday (It is Wednesday morning here being in a different time zone than others also means my debating clock is outta sync with just about everyone – but you get that). However Malooga stepped in to make a similar point & I thought I would support that point.
I don’t dispute that the old arms bizness is booming I may even have pointed out in that post that amerika spends more on guns n killing other humans than all the rest of the world put together a well known fact but one that bears repeating until all humans stop accepting that as an unchangeable reality- anyway gwot has never been a strategy for the elites – the amerikan arms bizness is fine it will continue to eat up all available resources, well into the foreseeable future – with or without gwot. In fact there is a strong argument that the military and their co-conspirators in the defense industry are becoming concerned that money is getting wasted on shit-kicking soldiers. Feeding em, housing em, patching em up in hospitals etc that would be better off just going straight home to daddy warbucks without the lower classes getting a bite off it. Easy enough to knock up a bit off hi-tech tatt that will kill without having to use lotsa expensive sacks of meat. That way the money can be grabbed straight off in the ‘intellectual property’ rort. Much simpler and much more profitable. That is the war that amerika is waging in Libya and it is likely to be the way all amerikan wars will be waged in future if possible.
Certainly Pakistan is the proving ground for that sort of imperial conflict but Afghanistan is not. Yeah we know there are lotsa kickbacks etc but really alla those soldiers and weensy programs in every shithole in the ghan are a fucking inefficient way of grabbing all the cash.
GWOT is PR never was a ‘strategy’ except for speechwriters, and as Malooga said it is time to retire the brand it is all downhill from here. The invasion of Afghanistan can never be won in the traditional sense and there was no way amerika could crank down the ‘surge’ in the ghan while OBL was still kicking. Gwot has always been for the voters but we are past that now, this post 911 horror show has become a total reality, it doesn’t require reinforcement it just is, and won’t change for a long time – well not until oblamblam and co get kicked outta their beds to cop a double tap and that is still a way off – so now that humans have come to accept the unacceptable as the new norm why waste money on gwot bullshit – boots on the ground – and whining ‘veterans’ – Cindy Sheehan and all that.
More money than ever will be spent on ‘weapons systems’ but a whole lot less is gonna ‘trickle down’ – just watch.
There are problems but mostly they will only come to the fore when a prez from the rethug half of the empire party was in power. Not everyone will be on board with this and already those with a heavy investment in gwot (mainly in the boots on the ground side of the military) are alleging that ‘the terrorists are gonna kick back’ but the bulk of smart opposition to empire is concentrating on matters closer to home so in all likelihood all we are gonna see is another moronic ‘shoe bomber’ type or perhaps a somewhat more effective false flag attempt.
Natch oblam & co are having two bob each way by goin along with the ‘possibility’ of retaliation -in Pakistan or the ME and these blokes don’t care about that anyhow. Most Pakis and cookies don’t vote in amerika.
The militarist boots on ground types do need watching though because they know that there is one country that joe fuckhead can be persuaded needs invading – Pakistan – peeps can be cranked that Muslims have nukes and that would be the exits strategy peeps keep whining about too. Grab the nukes and go. Altho that is a risky strategy because even after assassinations and bribes galore Pakistanis of all stripes have shown little inclination towards handing over the keys to their nukes. Meaning an invasion of Pakistan could cause exactly what they would be claiming they were invading to prevent. We need to keep as close an eye on em as the assholes planning the paradigm shift will be, cause an invasion of Pakistan or the ancillary, Pakistan’s reduction to the status of a failed state will have much worse consequences than just its obvious and immediate inhumanity – it will wreak misery on people across a wide arc encompassing all of South Asia and most of the ME. We already know that post 911 horror show assholes are capable of any inhumanity they believe necessary to keep their snouts in trough.
This gwot post 911 horror show carries with it so much cognitive dissonance that it is tough to come up with a point of view that is internally consistent. The most obvious example of this is with the amerikans, where the types cheering the loudest about the unjustifiable and plain illegal murder of Osama bin-Laden today are the very same people who have been calling 911 an elite manufactured conspiracy last Friday.
they will get called out for this & pretty soon they will decide that OBL wasn’t murdered. It will be just like the moon landing on a hollywood back lot “conspiracy” or whats the name of that place the loony toons are always on about? Roswell yeah like Roswell, which is why oblamblam is about to make the unconscionable play of releasing a snuff movie of a bunch of isolated, totally outta the loop geriatrics getting machine gunned to death – nice one asshole.
Me – I have no doubt that Osama was murdered on Sunday night (well that is my time prolly Saturday morning amerika time) it is just too big a lie not to be true – in the basics IE Osama died – the rest well. I still don’t reckon he had any involvement in the WTC and Pentagon actions. Maybe and this is a big maybe he chucked a couple dollars in the pot to help get it done, but I even doubt that because by the time 911 rolled around Osama already had a big target on his back and had been thoroughly penetrated by most of the usual players.
Apart from which the attacks against the WTC and the Pentagon were too well planned. OBL’s work was always pretty haphazard using naive kids not the sort of disciplined soldiers who did those two jobs. For all the talk about the Bali bombings and the Malay bomb builder Bali was a fuck-up from beginning to end. The targets were not well selected either in the first attack or the second and it didn’t take much to round them up – that stuff prolly was done by associates or followers of OBL. Even so proof would have been good proof and due process otherwise this is just murder.
The fact there has been nothing as effective as 911 since 911 points towards a reality that the organisers died on the day.
BushCo knew that and likely did a deal with the Saudis which included OBL being allowed to escape and live unharassed as long as he ‘retired’ and didn’t object to his role being played by an amerikan employed actor.
Note I wrote BushCo not amerika because that would have been a ‘private’ deal reasonably off the books negotiated at a much higher level than mere prez’s or generals can get to. One general general Mush was probably involved in the arrangement to stash OBL, but I strongly doubt anyone in the PPP administration was across this -not because they are too honest – the opposite – Zardari woulda milked that cow for all it was worth and they would have gossiped.
People will be people of course some woulda wondered who lived in the big house on the hill and bin-Laden’s name prolly copped a mention, but lets remember the monstrosities that have been created by GWOT. Apparently most locals though that the person living there was a big time drug dealer god knows enough of them have sprung up in the region since the Taliban’s policy against opium cultivation has been trashed by the invasion. Maybe a gun runner, maybe an independent ‘intelligence contractor’ all of those and more even dodgier, have become the noveau riche of ‘afpak’ in the last decade. Good job amerika nothing like civilising the unwhites – bringing em the joys of contemporary amerika. That is what people do and as much as peeps wondered who lived there and speculated it was OBL they also woulda dismissed the notion as too fantastic.
Once Oblam’s crew came in they likely had no knowledge of the deal and Bush power has prolly been on the wane among elites anyhow (It will likely be a generation before a Bush gets meaningful political power again)so when Oblam instructed that the stops be pulled out to find OBL, it didn’t take too long. He was in the bag and photographed by August or September 2010.
All that was left was to pick a time. I have no doubt special forces have been on standby to do this gig for at least 6 months. I still think that the proximity to the failed Ghadaffi attempt (I gotta disagree on the Saif point Malooga) was more than serendipity altho maybe oblam was goin for a double header but realised that children would probably die during the Ghadaffi hit so the OBL hit was gonna go forward whatever the outcome of the Ghadaffi murder attempt.
All this to say that GWOT is over as a vehicle for stealing resources from other nations and as a conduit for shifting what amerikan wealth was left in health education and welfare across into assholes pockets via weapons and killing.
Weapons and killing will continue of course but more efficiently HEW is over – deader than FDR or my man Debs – the only thing need concern us about this is what will replace gwot as a means of persuading voters that obama/bush/mccain/palin/ biden cares about them. It won’t be a pretty strategy that would be too inefficient.

Posted by: Debs is dead | May 4 2011 0:59 utc | 15

1)

The Pakistani government would of course like to keep any involvement secret as cooperation with the U.S. in such an operation would diminish its domestic standing.

Well, admission that the Us operates freely and without authorization in its territory doesn’t enhance its domestic standing, either
If the Us says that the Pakistani were kept in the dark; it must be true! it’s a grave accusation, a humiliating declaration of mistrust and an indictment; it will bring consequences in the relationship between the two countries, in a volatile situation with an ongoing war in Afghanistan – way too dangerous a thing to do, for both the Us and Pakistan, if it weren’t true
But indeed there are signs of cooperation (electricity outage, use of an airbase in Pakistani ground), for which the only plausible explanation I read somewhere (sorry, no link) is that the Pakistani knew of, and aided, some “high profile” operation, but did not know it was specifically directed at OBL; btw, this would entail that the Pakistani didn’t know the precise whereabouts of OBL
2) Brennan “corrections” regarding the action inside the compound are of two kinds; one concerns mix-ups (which son was killed, which woman was his wife) which might be attributed to hastiness; the other concerns decisive details of the dynamics: the use of women as human shields and OBL’s “armed” (maybe) “reaction” (maybe);
there was an about turn in the WH account: on day two, there were no reaction and no women shields;
this is really intriguing, and I offer my guess: clearly it was a kill operation, no witnesses left behind, the same propagandist explanation as usual (killed because he reacted, women killed because he used them as human shields), but something went wrong;
don’t know how it could happen, but maybe an unexpected witness turned out, maybe the same wounded woman now in Pakistani custody, that was hurt in the same “crossfire” that killed OBL, and this forced the WH to “correct” the nice fable
3) I fully agree with b regarding Guantanamo torture confessions; as I already said: shame on who “extracts” confessions, shame on who uses them, shame on who believes them;
4)

there is not even the slightest tiny bit of proof, not even an attempt to produce pictures, that Bin Laden was actually captured or killed

they finally released a photo; maybe hesitation in publishing it is comprehensible; OBL is horribly disfigured, and it’s not something anybody would want to be associated with; consider that war is always sanitized in the Us; and many people around the world will feel pity for OBL, and rage towards the Us
5)

this was likely an operation to retire the “Bin Laden” marketing campaign which has helped to promote divisive U.S. war of terror policies over the last decade.

A simpler and less conspiratorial way of saying it, is that Obama set the killing of OBL as a top priority of his presidency, whereas Bush probably had an “understanding” with his neocon advisers and Musharraf that OBL could be “forgotten” (many of those who in the past years tried to convince us that OBL was dead were neocons, or people involved in 911 investigations)
same idea as DiD, on this point; not so sure of the “strategic” considerations (end of GWOT marketing campaign) related to such a decision, exposed by Malooga, b and DiD; getting reelected for a second term is already enough incentive to go to war with Pakistan; and the GWOT rhetoric was already sidelined in favor of the “export of democracy” at the beginning of Bush’s second term (then 2006 saw the rise of Hamas and Hezbollah and al-Sadr in free elections …); the democrats never really liked the GWOT rhetoric (too politically incorrect), but a bomb will always help to advance a police state and permanent war when necessary, even under a different rhetoric

Posted by: claudio | May 4 2011 1:47 utc | 16

I should, of course, just digest this crap passively without comment. It was just rammed home to me today, however, that until three years ago, my refusal to embrace extrajudicial state-sanctioned murder got me tarred with the label “Leftist Moonbat” and cost me the goodwill of many of my former friends and acquaintances. Today, that same position is getting me tarred with the label “Right-Wing Troll” and is costing me the goodwill of most of the remaining friends and acquaintances.
I’ve apparently changed my entire political worldview 180 degrees by simply remaining consistent. I should carry a change of clothes with me… not going anywhere is really taking me all over the place.

Posted by: Monolycus | May 4 2011 2:33 utc | 17

I can’t help but wonder if the sea burial is an admission of guilt while assuring there is no crime. Isn’t it quite difficult to convict someone for extrajudicial murder if there is no body?

Posted by: Eureka Springs | May 4 2011 2:55 utc | 18

Here’s a supposed insider account of how the OBL hit happened, differing from the official story only in the role attributed to Obama. He is depicted here as very reluctant to authorize the hit, and being forced into it by Panetta et al. It might be true in part, or complete bullshit. It is intended to reinforce the “Obama as wimp” meme which would otherwise crumple under the current conventional wisdom of “determined and clever killer of the mastermind of 9/11”.
http://socyberty.com/issues/white-house-insider-obama-hesitated-panetta-issued-order-to-kill-osama-bin-laden/

Posted by: mistah charley, ph.d. | May 4 2011 3:11 utc | 19

“Burial at sea” implies a ceremony. So does the supposed sensitivity over muslim burial practises. Neither seems likely to me-tossing a weighted carcase into the water would seem a more likely possibility. But in all likelihood, and according to Claude Cockburn’s theory, since the government tells us these things the truth must be somnething different.
There’s a Libyan/Suleyman angle too in the claim that Sheikh al Libi (or whatever)- tortured all over and personally delivered, by Obama’s favourite to succeed Mubarak, to Ghadaffi’s care before his sudden and unexpected ‘suicide’- was said to have been the head of the courier network which, according to the script, was cleverly traced back to Bin Laden’s refuge.
Does anyone believe that the location has not been known of for months? Or that the Petraeus/Panetta/Gates shuffle was unconnected to the timing of this killing?
What the deeper significance is, it will take time to work out. In the meantime the message is very clear: the Nobel Peace laureate has the same horror of Courts of Law that Dracula had of garlic. Horror but no fear of them: extra judicial killings now outnumber legally sanctioned executions by thousands to one.
As someone, very presciently, remarked at Counterpunch, the politicos in Washington are all devotees of movies like The Godfather. They model themselves on the tawdry cartoon villains from Hollywood. One must imagine the shades of mafia bosses, or rather the actors who played them, as Presidential companions in front of the big screen watching private movies, where W used to lap up waterboarding videos and Wilson screened The Birth of a Nation.

Posted by: bevin | May 4 2011 3:42 utc | 20

It’s all extra-judicial slaying, sure. Let’s just be glad on this one, the asshole’s presumably dead.

Posted by: slothrop | May 4 2011 4:04 utc | 21

The elites are not in consensus on GWOT or on all the money being ladled out to military contracts. Let’s not forget that Bush had to bribe them–enormous tax cuts in return for not opposing a little war in Iraq. The elites were damned if they were going to pay for that stupid war!
The problem now is that another gigantic American industry–health care–is getting threatened with cuts. Medicare is on the chopping block. And the financial beneficiaries of ObamaCare are seeing their projected profits annihilated by ever increasing “defense” spending. And they are not at all happy about it.
Also, despite record profits in the financial sector and in the oil industry, business sucks for much of main street, and prospects are looking worse. Business will continue to suck as long as the feds continue to pour money into things, like the military, that are destructive and not pro-growth.
Bottom line here is that there may be major rumblings of discontent among increasing segments of the elites. Problem is that only Republicans can cut “defense” spending. Only Democrats can cut Social Security, which has no supporters among the elites, because there’s no money to be made…unless is gets privatized.

Posted by: JohnH | May 4 2011 4:42 utc | 22

what this is about:
http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/05/bigger-2012-issue-osama-or-libya

Posted by: somebody | May 4 2011 5:52 utc | 23

OT – some time ago b asked “What will the mafia Don do next?”, that is, how could the Us force the iraqi government to ask them to please postpone troop withdrawal

Posted by: claudio | May 4 2011 6:38 utc | 24

somebody, the first part seems right the second not so much. Obama gets a double whammy by whacking OBL, poll #’s go up and the albatross of the dem’s weak on defense meme is also kaput. My guess is that that the notion that Libya will come back to haunt the bump because of high gas prices is unlikely because demand will deflate as the economy continues to get worse. And with the economy continuing to bust, ending the Iraq and Afghanistan occupations will be interpreted as being penny wise and hung on 43 via republican foreign policy incompetence, further de-arming the weak on defense thing. Libya will continue to fester in stalemate even after Gaddafi if/is eventually gone, so maximizing a U.S. major roll is a no-win politically, outside of Obama whacking him like OBL.
One interesting thing Obama has done is to capitalize on the republican predilection for fear mongering and bare knuckle Randian economics. By moving rightward on domestic issues he has pushed the republicans even further rightward and into mainstreaming the lunatic fringe. The current front runner Donald Trump has a must see recent speech in Las Vegas (youtube, Trump Las Vegas speech, 3 parts) where he presents himself as a perfect American character of Benito Mussolini. Braggadocio par excellent, full of profanity (probably the first presidential hopeful to use the word mother-fucker in a speech, for a womans group no less), and aggression (pointing his finger unmistakeably like a gun every time he mentions China, OPEC, or Iraq if they should fail to heed his warnings). I guess they forgot how easy LBJ womped Goldwater with images of a nuclear war.

Posted by: anna missed | May 4 2011 7:44 utc | 25

Looks like helicopter fell of the sky rather then “refused to take off” as the WH statement
Make your own mind

Posted by: hans | May 4 2011 9:41 utc | 26

A new line in the sand on which you will be judged. It’s kind of like the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. You better rejoice, or face ostracization and banishment.
http://news.antiwar.com/2011/05/03/outrage-as-steelers-running-back-insufficiently-happy-with-bin-ladens-death/

Outrage as Steelers’ Running Back Insufficiently Happy With Bin Laden’s Death
Steelers’ President Terms Comments Incomprehensible

Popular outrage is swelling tonight against Pittsburgh Steelers running back Rashard Mendenhall following the star’s tweets about the slaying of Osama bin Laden.
Mendenhall, whose previous tweets about the merits of the NFL Draft came under scrutiny, caused quite a stir when, citing the Christian principle “those who judge others, will also be judged themselves,” wondered whether it was appropriate to “celebrate” the death of anyone.
Mendenhall’s comments were quick to spawn a flurry of controversy and public condemnation. Steelers owner Art Rooney II termed Mendenhall’s lack of joy incomprehensible in an official response, saying that the “entire Steelers’ organization” is officially very proud of the killing.

Mercy me…..mercy me.

Posted by: Morocco Bama | May 4 2011 11:09 utc | 27

Monolycus @17, you’ve just explained my very same plight. I’ve been labeled a Teabagger in some circles, and a Marxist/Communist in others…..and all in the same day sometimes, and not just for this, but for many things.
I’m not sure why I bother……and increasingly I don’t….especially because of this. I mean, what’s the point. It’s the only reaction of which they are now capable. To paint you as their apparent antithesis, when they are so much closer to their antithesis than they will ever realize.

Posted by: Morocco Bama | May 4 2011 11:14 utc | 28

He is depicted here as very reluctant to authorize the hit, and being forced into it by Panetta et al. It might be true in part, or complete bullshit. It is intended to reinforce the “Obama as wimp” meme which would otherwise crumple under the current conventional wisdom of “determined and clever killer of the mastermind of 9/11”.
Or, it could be intelligent caution on the part of the Puppet in Chief, considering what I posited a few fays prior about OBL possibly residing in Iran. If Iran within the next several weeks or months trots OBL out for a press conference, the Chief Cheerleader’s caution will have been warranted.
Just a hypothesis….feeling around here in the dark….as we all are. Is this hypothesis likely….not very, but neither are the other hypothesis being bandied about here, because most of them are some subtle permutation of what is on offer from the MSM, and sorry, but the MSM isn’t going to give the true accounting of things because they don’t even know themselves, or care to know at this point. They’re handed a description of events and print/broadcast it without question.

Posted by: Morocco Bama | May 4 2011 11:44 utc | 29

This looks like the chopper

Posted by: Cloned Poster | May 4 2011 12:18 utc | 30

Here’s the video of the Celebration again. Compare and Contrast with the Hitler Nazi Youth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kI8EUqbWdM

Posted by: Morocco Bama | May 4 2011 12:20 utc | 31

U$ @ 9: “bout says it all. Picture worth a thousand word.
MB @ 27: Mendenhall’s stock just went up, in my eyes.

Posted by: ben | May 4 2011 13:45 utc | 32

@Morocco Bama – Looking at RT’s video of the street celebration in front of the White House – although cheerful and sincere, it pales compared to the Hitler Youth of my imagination – uniformed, in orderly ranks, disciplined, synchronized chanting and saluting – nowadays the best example of that kind of mass display would probably be North Korea.
Those of us capable of laughing out loud at the absurdities of the lies about mass murder (those of us who have that as one of the items in our behavioral repertoire, not necessarily our only or even our usual response) may well enjoy Jeff Huber’s recent column. The nickname he uses for our President is new to me, and seems apt: Barry “The Rock” Warbomber, portrayed by actor Dwayne Johnson.
There’s much, much more.
http://zenhuber.blogspot.com/2011/05/tuesday-preview-hang-em-high-comedy.html

Posted by: mistah charley, ph.d. | May 4 2011 13:55 utc | 33

Now taking bets on how long it’ll take before “the compound” becomes a shrine, and destination for tourists of every stripe?
Disney better hurry.

Posted by: ben | May 4 2011 14:08 utc | 34

I’m curious about why b is appealing to us to document facts in this thread. Get with the times. Facts don’t matter. They don’t change the narrative at all, and clinging obstinately to facts paints you as more than just hopelessly old-fashioned; it makes you an obstructionist in today’s fast-paced, fact-free, user-friendly world.
Reliance on facts to form opinions would lead to a media dominated by qualified experts. Do you know what those guys charge for their services? It’s blackmail, plain and simple. There are only a finite number of facts to go around, and in today’s marketplace, there is nearly infinite space for opinion. With demand running so high and supply running low, we couldn’t afford to keep the lights on if we only relied on qualified fact-brokers. This isn’t the kind of global economy in which we can afford to rely only on fossil facts. We need sources of renewable realities, and god damn it if it hasn’t been provided for you.
Anyway, it’s just elitist to only listen to a select few people who have actually studied an issue, anyway. Even if you don’t support the basic economic sense behind eliminating facts, you must surely balk at the notion of an elite minority jealously hoarding their facts from a hungry populace. We’ve finally got a system in place which levels the playing field. So the narrative we’ve been given is filled with logical and ethical inconsistencies? What do you want? What did you pay for it? Everyone, regardless of qualification, race, creed, color or social class can participate equally as long as they don’t deviate from the consensus. That’s democratic, buddy. Why do you hate democracy?

Posted by: Monolycus | May 4 2011 14:16 utc | 35

monolycus @ 35: Yep, create your own reality, fuck the facts. That’s the PNAC battle plan, and it’s working.

Posted by: ben | May 4 2011 14:33 utc | 36

I don’t know about you all, but I miss OBL already. Well, it’s the third day, so if he’s going to rise, he better shake a leg.
@35, especially in regards to OBL, what the hell is a fact? Seriously, the only “facts” that have been presented are those proffered from obscure and indirect sources that are more often than not, if not always, unverifiable. The entire construct that is OBL is a vast accumulation of unverifiable “facts” and here we have the dopes running around arguing about these alleged “facts.” When enough unverifiable “facts” converge to form a narrative and a resulting perception, I call it a fabrication, so in my opinion, OBL and everything associated with him and his merry men, will be a fabrication until proven otherwise.
In the meantime, that fabrication for me will be subject to my derisive, irreverent ridicule.
OBL is the Anti Claus, and that celebration outside of the Whitehouse and at “Ground Less Than Zero” was likened to a Christmas celebration by the target market for the GWOT. Look at the Believers in the crowd. They were merely babes when 911 went down…..not too far out of diapers, unable to grok the events of that day and its implications. Their brains were washed, and the display we saw Sunday night was spectacular in its success. Those neural pathways were washed so thoroughly, they sparkled in the fluorescent glow of the Shining City On The Hill.
God Bless America!!

Posted by: Morocco Bama | May 4 2011 14:36 utc | 37

In Pakistan, the bodyguard did it

World’s most wanted al-Qaeda Chief Osama bin Laden was not killed by the US special forces during a predawn raid at his compound in Abbottabad on late Sunday night, home to Pakistan Army’s military academy and less than two hours drive form Islamabad, instead his body guard killed him to save him from arrested alive, a Pakistani television quoted sources as saying on Tuesday

Posted by: bokonon | May 4 2011 14:54 utc | 38

Osama, Geronimo, and the scalp of our enemy.

Colonial leaders who fought against Tecumseh, Metacom, or the Natchez not only feared dying in battle but also depended on their Indian foes for political survival. They needed to consolidate and demonize the threat of native rebellion into the figure of its leader, because they wanted to receive the power and support to do battle with this enemy.

It’s worth remembering OBL was a CIA ‘asset’, remained so through the Bush Admin (remember how “Terror Alerts” coincided with political troubles and OBL audio tapes?), and dead or alive, remains one to this day.

Posted by: Jeremiah | May 4 2011 15:54 utc | 40

repression is getting orwellian in Bahrein:
Justice and Health Ministers Reveal Doctors’ Crimes During Recent Unrest
(sorry for the second OT in a row, but the open thread is closed – hey, MoA getting orwellian, too?)

Posted by: claudio | May 4 2011 15:57 utc | 41

somehow I think this – for all kinds of reasons – is likely
http://www.counterpunch.org/shamir05042011.html
US (and Pakistan) knew where Osama was since 2005
and I find the most revealing lie (with photographs) of all is this:
from the Guardian:
Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and senior White House officials watched the raid unfold live on monitors
Brennan said on Monday: “We were able to monitor in a real-time basis the progress of the operation from its commencement to its time on target to the extraction of the remains and to then the egress off of the target… we were able to monitor the situation in real time and were able to have regular updates and to ensure that we had real-time visibility into the progress of the operation. I’m not going to go into details about what type of visuals we had or what type of feeds that were there, but it was – it gave us the ability to actually track it on an ongoing basis.”
How the story changed
Carney said on Tuesday the updates were “minute-by-minute” and “they were looking at and listening to those updates”. CIA director Leon Panetta told PBS on Tuesday: “Once those teams went into the compound, I can tell you that there was a time period of almost 20 or 25 minutes that we really didn’t know just exactly what was going on.”

Posted by: somebody | May 4 2011 16:06 utc | 42

For those of you having difficulty determining how to talk to your children about the alleged death of OBL, this is highly informative and helpful. It’s nice to know we have people who can help us through these trying times.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/42895587#42895587

Posted by: Morocco Bama | May 4 2011 16:22 utc | 43

When Obama pronounced Osama Bin Laden dead in a televised announcement heard round the world last night, he was at least the ninth major head of state or high-ranking government official to have done so.
from the corbett report:
http://tinyurl.com/634qxzy
Bush approval ratings (poll of polls) from 01 to 08:
http://www.hist.umn.edu/%7Eruggles/Approval.htm
> Entirely dependent on 9/11, iraq war, murdering Saddam.
As for the boost for Obama, one article says 11% (!) boost in approval ratings (poll by CBS-NYT), another states, poll shows no big Osama bump due to the economy. Whatever, any bump up will be very short-lived. (goog: *Obama polls*, those were the top two today.)
The election is too far in the future for it to help Obama, as Osama is stale news – OBL has been out of mainstream media for 9 years, and been deemed irrelevant (most famously by Bush) or announced as deceased with clockwork regularity. A has-been, hyped mythical media figure now well past the sell date, like soggy mildewed cornflakes.
All this shows lack of planning, lack of coordination, different factions with different agendas, confusion, lack of control from the top, muddling about, as well as crass stupidity and the usual ‘gung ho’ attitude lower level ppl who have some power. (Leaving morality aside.)
If Obama was hesitant (see Morocco Bama at 29) his instincts were right on this one. Most likely he had no say.

Posted by: Noirette | May 4 2011 17:40 utc | 44

Based on Morocco Bama @43 then the following scenario is plausible
Bodyguard gets a tip off that some kind of mission to capture or kill is being carried out. OBL as he has always said requested that he should be shot. The body is then taken from the home and hidden before the attack. The USAF attack but soon realise that OBL is not there and has probably been killed and body hidden. Hence the story about body buried at sea!

Posted by: hans | May 4 2011 17:41 utc | 45

Doesn’t the fact that the story keep changing make the best case these events actually occurred? If they were lying, the story would be solid from day one…
..just a thought.

Posted by: Jeremiah | May 4 2011 17:59 utc | 46

Let’s just be glad on this one, the asshole’s presumably dead.
That’s being a bit harsh, wouldn’t you say? Such language! What has he ever done to you for you to call him such a nasty, foul pejorative? I think someone hasn’t had their Jimmy Dean Breakfast this morning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvHj0vovQHI

Posted by: Morocco Bama | May 4 2011 18:29 utc | 47

what do you know about Audrey Tomason, the girl in the photos of situation room.?
some people speaks about her thesis in Tuft o kennedy school.

Posted by: an idiot | May 4 2011 18:31 utc | 48

Another entertaining conspiracy theory I’d like to offer up: perhaps the events occurred more or less as described, but it is a deliberate strategy of the Obama administration to do things in a shifty way (dispose of the body instantly, change their story a lot) so as to intentionally foster more conspiracy theories. They got lots of mileage out of the whole “birther” thing, getting people who want to seem “reasonable” to side with Obama in contrast to all those conspiracy loons. Show the birth certificate, then instantly pull out the bin Laden kill as a source of more conspiracy theories that splits the country between kooky people who believe in conspiracies, vs reasonable people who support Obama.

Posted by: Quin | May 4 2011 19:59 utc | 49

During the Vietnam War we ran a thing called the Phoenix Program where upwards of 20,000 suspected Vietcong leaders and cadre were assassinated. It didn’t seem to help us much at winning the war against Sino-Soviet communism.
And I must say that gunning down someone who is abruptly awoken from a sleep or who is leisurely eating a meal in the privacy of their own home is about the easiest job in the military. Contrast that with assaulting a fortified position on a dug in hilltop and even a non-military type can get a sense of how hard this is to do without also getting killed. Giving an order to assassinate may be politically risky but it sure as hell does not prove that you are exceptionally skilled at overseeing a military operation. Nor does it prove that you have exceptionally large amounts of testosterone running through your bloodstream. And you certainly don’t deserve a medal of honor or a military promotion for assassinating an unarmed man in his pajamas, even if he is the world’s most wanted terrorist.
Obama will get my vote when he “kills” high unemployment, stops outsourcing jobs, stops importing cheap labor both legal and illegal, renegotiates NAFTA and kills other similar sorts of free trade agreements with countries like South Korea and Colombia. He can also shut down his secret prisons and tell his brownshirts at Homeland Security to stop spying on us and stop being a stooge to Wall Street. Until this happens, I’ll continue to see Obama as nothing more than a war criminal who’s out to impoverish what’s left of our middle class and put our land of the free behind bars.

Posted by: Cynthia | May 4 2011 23:42 utc | 50

Quin 49,
Yes. The more Obama can radicalize the right by feeding them all the crazy they can swallow – the more unelectable they become and the more rational he looks. This new found popularity makes up for the old popularity (that got him elected) that’s been lost. Pretty clever, in that it puts him in a perfect position for expanding and normalizing the corporatist agenda, while continuing to neglect all social programs that people expected.
Some kind of weird new triangulation, as far as I can see.

Posted by: anna missed | May 5 2011 1:46 utc | 51

It is common knowledge that Pakistan is a puppet state of the American Empire. So if Pakistan is a terrorist state, as Salman Rushdie claims it is, then this makes the US the puppet master behind this terrorist state. It is also common knowledge that the US is conducting a covert war against Taliban and al-Qaeda forces in Pakistan. And this covert war is under the command and control of the CIA.
And since Pakistan is crawling with CIA agents, it should make us wonder how they could be so incompetent as to not know that bin Laden was living right under their noses. I suppose that there is a pretty good chance that they were being complicit in this.
It’s hard to tell whether the CIA was being incompetent or complicit in its dealings with bin Laden. But one thing is for certain: the American Empire has jumped off of a very steep cliff and is in free fall with a faulty parachute strapped to its back. And we can all thank Emperor Obama for this.

Posted by: Cynthia | May 5 2011 3:36 utc | 52

It is not the first time seal team six did the world a service of getting rid of one who boasted of killings, plots, and, made a formal declaration of war versus.
“Jews, Christians, and, Americans” per his fatwah he issued in 1995. As manuel noriaga learned. Declaring war on a soveriegn nation – has consequences.
Perhaps, it would have been better had he been captured alive to some, but think of the consequences? How many hijackings, kidnappings, terror plots would we have seen?
As to releasing a picture? I think it will be saves for when Donald Thrump or others make too much noise. It’s already floating around – even the funeral pictures. The Sun, Sunday Mirror, or some Pakistani or Indian or Israeli paper will publish it at some point. Or maybe wikileaks? Obama’s rating dip – the picture comes out.
Also more than his picture I think the world would like to know whose phone numbrs were stitched into his clothing? Even the area or country code would be interesting to learn.
Who would he call? Kim Jung ILL? Qadaffi? a leader in some Arab or middle eastern state? Nancy Polosi? TMZ? Letterman? the Civil liberties union? OPEC? his family in KSA? Hugo Chavez or Fidel? Beck or Limbuagh? Comedy central?
I mean who does the worlds most wanted man call when he’s in a jam?
more on this eventually on my site… Nice discussion you have here.
ciao – mikeinmanila

Posted by: MikeinManila | May 6 2011 0:50 utc | 53

As manuel noriaga learned. Declaring war on a soveriegn nation – has consequences.
But the International Plutocracy, via the International Banks have done just that, and yet the consequences for them have all been positive, so I guess your assertion is still correct, because you never mentioned whether, or not, the accrued consequences were positive or negative.
OBL was, and is, nothing more than a fabricated perception, something on which clueless masses in the West could hang every dirty deed. Even those this fabrication denied involvement in 911 immediately subsequent to that event, the deed was attributed to this fabrication and fabricated organization to which he was associated. It was a propaganda success, and that Golden Goose that laid so many golden eggs will not only lay more golden eggs regardless if it allegedly draws breath, or not. Also, those Golden Eggs have hatched and some of them were yet more Golden Gooses that are now laying more Golden Eggs.
Here’s OBL’s theme song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBtEBj3UVto
How many hijackings, kidnappings, terror plots would we have seen?
Just as many. If it wasn’t the construct of OBL, another suitable pretext would have been inculcated…..and another will be inculcated….just you wait and see…it’s coming, and OBL will pale in comparison.

Posted by: Morocco Bama | May 6 2011 13:04 utc | 54

@53

did the world a service of getting rid of one who boasted of killings, plots […] formal declaration of war […]

are you talking about Cheney’s description of the GWOT, endless, secret, without rules?

Who would he call? Kim Jung ILL? Qadaffi? a leader in some Arab or middle eastern state? Nancy Polosi? TMZ? Letterman? the Civil liberties union? OPEC? his family in KSA? Hugo Chavez or Fidel? Beck or Limbuagh? Comedy central?
I mean who does the worlds most wanted man call when he’s in a jam?

you’re off track, I’ll help you; try: Manucher Ghorbanifar (iranian-contras arms dealer)? Oliver North? Musharraf? Dale Watson (head of the FBI’s counterterrorism unit, responsible for 911 investigations)? Hamid Karzai? Mike Leeden?
mostly a restricted cabal of black ops / neocons has insisted, over the past years, that OBL ws dead; someone of the Bush administration probably told Musharraf to take care of him;

Posted by: claudio | May 6 2011 15:29 utc | 55

One question I keep asking myself is: why did the Us find themselves in the necessity to give different, conflicting and unsatisfying versions of what happened inside the compound?
I propose the following starting points as uncontroversial:
1) it’s been a strange kill operation with many witnesses;
2) the many versions hurt the propaganda effect of the blitz, turning a clear success (from their point of view) to a murky affair; and the possibility of a cold-blooded assassination of OBL is scandalous (outside of the US);
3) Obama’s team had plans in place regarding the way to “sell” the blitz to Us, Muslim and world public opinion
From this, I deduce:
– the first version was the prepared one (Navy Seals encountered fierce resistance, OBL was armed and used women as human shields)
– they then realized that there were witnesses who could contradict this version, and hurriedly made up corrections according to the facts that emerged or they feared would emerge (a wounded woman was inside the room with Obama; a 12 year girl was inside or just outside the door! they had to know)
Question:
– if Obama’s team was aware of events (watching in real time or high definition, or not, it doesn’t matter) as they were unfolding, how could they not notice the existence of witnesses?
Hypothesis (the only one I was able to imagine)
– as someone insinuated, Obama wasn’t aware of what was happening until briefed from someone on the ground; this guy gave insufficient/misleading information regarding the blitz, and euphoria caused the WH to release the prepared version; a huge blunder in the political handling of the operation!
the alternative is that some other blunder was committed during the blitz, or some unanticipated accident occurred, but I can’t imagine what

Posted by: claudio | May 6 2011 20:45 utc | 56

Pakistan newspaper reports that AQ confirms OBL’s death.
http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/06/al-qaeda-confirms-osama-bin-ladens-death.html

Posted by: ab initio | May 6 2011 23:49 utc | 57

the blitz on OBL is an example of one reason why I don’t believe in conspiracies: they are simply impossible
conspiracies in the sense that a restricted group not only secretly executes some complex action involving coordination of different subjects, but manipulates the people’s thinking by anticipating possible reactions, and inhibiting or enhancing them through appropriate psychological techniques;
even a “simple” action as the killing of OBL is, when scrutinized, extremely complex, and the effective development difficult or impossible to foresee, and even more to handle at the propaganda level;
real world is complex, unpredictable, and chance and luck do exist;
if you think of it, the propaganda that is fed us every day by MSM is quite gross, and it’s easy to recognize with a little training; what makes it effective is the fact that is grounded on a dominating ideology that paralyzes alternative thought, so that even if people recognize propaganda as such, they still lend consensus to the “system” because what happens it’s felt as ineluctable, and / or “the lesser evil”;
if we could succeed in challenging this cultural hegemony, suddenly all this powerful propaganda and brain-washing machine would become ineffective

Posted by: claudio | May 7 2011 11:56 utc | 58