Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 18, 2011
Cohen: “High Point Of Diplomacy Is Waging War”

Standing with the majority of the world inhabitants and with once principals and laws despite strong diplomatic pressure to do otherwise is now called being "woobly"?

Roger Cohen thinks so:

Adenauer and de Gaulle must be turning in their graves. Here was Germany standing wobbly with Brazil, Russia, India and China — and against its closest allies, France and the United States — in the U.N. vote on Libyan military action. And here was France providing America’s most vigorous NATO support.

To me it looked more like the U.S. supporting Sarkozy's personal ambitions but what do I know.

I also thought that diplomacy in a crisis is the art to achieve ones nations interests without the costs and sorrow of war. That to me is "a high point of diplomacy". But according to Cohen a high point of diplomacy is waging a war of aggression, killing people, instead of helping to achieve a peaceful outcome:

We stand at a high point in French postwar diplomacy and a nadir in German. There were strong arguments on either side of a Libyan intervention, but with a massacre looming in Benghazi, Germany had to stand with its allies. Angela Merkel has proved herself more a maneuverer than a leader. Germany often conveys the sense that it now resents the agents of its postwar rehabilitation — the European Union and NATO.

Waging a totally unnecessary war of aggression because of an assumed massacre, which was very unlikely to take place, is crime. France attacking Libya while its interest are less migration from North Africa, free flow of energy resources and fewer radical Islamists is worse. It is a blunder of Napolean proportion.

(Daniel Larison's has a longer recommandable take of the Cohen piece.)

Comments

Cameron and Sarkozy were not given the opportunity to join in on killing Afghanis and Iraqis. Now, there is a little window of oppo’ for killing yet more ‘natives’, with a UN mandate, no less!
Deploying military might, flexing the muscles, what a thrill, and a supreme distraction from problems at home. It must be glorious fun to sell arms to say Khadafi, cash in, and then set out to destroy what one has sold in good faith, presumably looking forward to the perspective of yet more sales.
The West’s ‘development’ aid is minute dust as compared to the arms sales. The former could merely be considered stipends or bribes to encourage the latter.
Like when I shop at the Coop I get ‘points’ I can only spend at the Coop.

Posted by: Noirette | Apr 18 2011 16:07 utc | 1

“according to Cohen a high point of diplomacy is waging a war of aggression, killing people, instead of helping to achieve a peaceful outcome”
actually it really seems that what Cohen is saying is that a high point of diplomacy is simply supporting the US in whatever it chooses to do.
Cohen: “Germany often conveys the sense that it now resents the agents of its postwar rehabilitation — the European Union and NATO.”
One could make the case that NATO was an agent of German ‘rehabilitation’ but with regards to the rest of Europe, whatever about German post-war ‘rehabilitation’, it would be much more accurate to say that Germany was the agent of Post-war European regeneration

Posted by: hu bris | Apr 18 2011 16:41 utc | 2

when they start making psychological analysis on you, it’s a good sign; they did it to Putin for a few years, then they have acknowledged that they simply have to put up with a stronger and more assertive Russia than they would have liked
Germany has been strongly favored by her post-war imposed low political profile; it has been forced to concentrate on real work, instead of imperial or sub-imperial destructive and self-destructive hubris
now Germany is among the few “advanced” states that the world can hope to see contribute to the establishment of a more sane and balanced world order, with China and others

Posted by: claudio | Apr 18 2011 17:00 utc | 3

now Germany is among the few “advanced” states that the world can hope to see contribute to the establishment of a more sane and balanced world order, with China and others
What? This is satire, correct?

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Apr 18 2011 17:26 utc | 4

@MB – why satire? in a world dominated by irresponsible global powers rooted in the Us, the main political lever and starting point for a better world is an alliance among strong national states capable of containing such powers
Germany is militarily occupied like the rest of the world, but has the strength to shake off the shackles whenever it decides to do so;
most important, it is (1) building strong strategic relationships with Russia and China, among others; and (2) protecting its own assets discouraging outsourcing, defending a social contract, etc
ok, maybe things seem greener when watched from Italy …

Posted by: claudio | Apr 18 2011 19:59 utc | 5

in other words, if we as individuals, or as citizens of small(er) nation-states, or as individuals concerned with how the world is being governed, MUST live in a world in which we are ruled by irresponsible global powers, then the more global powers there are, the better for the rest of us

Posted by: hu bris | Apr 18 2011 21:39 utc | 6

hu bris, presently the world isn’t governed at all, for the very reason that irresponsible global powers dominate the scene;
I hope that more responsible regional/global powers will rise and establish some rules by which the rest of the world can go by without fearing the chaos and destruction brought by the imposition of financial pyramidal schemes, ever-growing military spending, wars of aggression, Imf blackmailing etc
we’ll get rid of irresponsible global powers once the source of their power – the Us’ status of sole and unchallenged superpower – is contained and drained
smaller nations can live alongside with a number of sovereign actors or with a lone superpower – ask Cuba, Libya, Palestine, Iran for which they would prefer
a number of “secondary” powers must start acting in concert and pose limits to the lone superpower and to the irresponsible global powers: the explicit dissent (not quite opposition) of Germany, Russia, China and Turkey on Libya’s venture is quite important from this point of view
nothing to be really optimistic about; the litmus test that something is indeed changing might be Germany’s and other European countries’ refusal to finance (through Nato) the Us military-industrial complex, but that seems a long way to come
national plutocracies, that benefit from the current state of affairs, must be brought under control first, for this process to develop

Posted by: claudio | Apr 18 2011 22:18 utc | 7

Cohen is a fool. To suggest that De Gaulle, of all people, would have entangled France in this Libyan adventure is to reveal an ignorance as profound as his zionism.
De Gaulle would have rubbed his hands with glee as he watched the Anglo Saxons make fools of themselves.
It was Sarkozy, a political parvenu, who regards the US with the same awe that a provincial racketeer has for the Sicilian Mafia, who reversed De Gaulle’s decision to remove French forces from NATO command.
As to Germany’s position, since re-unification there has been a natural tendency for the Germans to knit back the old ties that their economy and culture have always had with the Russians.
What interest does Germany have in Libya?
With eastern Europe, Russia, and the great centre of the eurasian landmass, Germany’s future is enmeshed.
Sixty six years after the end of the World War it is time that journalists woke up and realised that Germany has the international responsibility of judging issues on their merits and minimising the hypocrisy in the public discourse. The idea that its governments should continue to follow Washington’s inept, intoxicated lead in international affairs implies a crippling imposition on the German people, already heavily burdened with a banking sector stumbling under the weight of Wall Street’s wastepaper.
It would be interesting to hear whether b considers the recent defenestration, of Herr Doktor von und zu (Mac)Gutenberg (etc ad nauseum), had any bearing on the government’s decision.

Posted by: bevin | Apr 18 2011 23:03 utc | 8

the world at an intensifying pace seems madder & madder to me. insufferable. it is said by some comrades here to not see incompetence where there is clear planning, i do not know. i don’t see any method. other than the empire’s real fear of the arab revolts & their contagious effect on a people fed up & tired of their bloody nonsense. other than that it seems as if the plans were drawn up in an asylum by a couple of rich & venal schoolboys. the madness is so intense & the lies so constant i think even intelligent people are forced into a kind of submission to the accumulation of stupidities. one day after another. relentless. the fools speak of democratic institutions & they are as much a laughing stock as in the 18th century. they tal of law & order while they daily practice, outrages – a lawlessness which makes a mockery of their jurisprudence, that all people are equal under the law – that notion died a century ago but now it is completely laughable, macabre

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Apr 18 2011 23:07 utc | 9

Is this the kind of leadership you’re talking about? I nice example of unity and solidarity.
http://www.ip-global.org/2011/04/14/it%E2%80%99s-germany%E2%80%99s-problem-too/

It’s Germany’s Problem Too
Italy should not be left alone to deal with the flood of North African refugees
14 April 2011
by Marie Preuß, in: Online Exclusive
Silvio Berlusconi has asked his European neighbors for help with the refugee entry point at Lampedusa, to which the German Interior Minister, Hans-Peter Friedrich, has said, “Italy must settle this problem on their own.” But we are a united Europe and should act that way in handling the current refugee crisis…..
The German government has expressed unease in regard to Italy’s new plans, as issuing refugees visas would endanger the Schengen Agreement. The Bavarian CSU party has even threatened to reinstate German border controls shortly before the Easter travel surge. The Federal Interior Minister, Hans-Peter Friedrich (CSU), has told the world, “Italy must settle its problems on its own.” It’s problem—on its own. That’s pretty clear. Germany gladly accepts a hundred refugees stranded on Malta once in a while—a pathetic symbol of solidarity—but it is not real help. Genuine European solidarity would be something else…..
But Germany is staying out of it, as Minister Friedrich has made abundantly clear. And with that, the Germans are out of the woods. We can watch the nightly news with a clear conscience, as pictures flash by of dehydrated children who, near death after a two-day journey, are lifted out of refugee boats. That is sad indeed. Luckily, it is the Italians who have to deal with the consequences.
Can one of the richest countries in the world afford to be so callous? How can we look ourselves in the mirror?
The problem remains, and a solution is not on the horizon. The fall of the North African dictators who have done Europe’s dirty work is being rightly celebrated. But the first step should have been an admission of responsibility. Covering one’s ears and eyes does nothing. The cries of the world’s poor are getting louder and more self-confident, and in a globalized world, they will continue to converge on us.

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Apr 18 2011 23:46 utc | 10

@MB
that of a multipolar world order is for me only a faint hope, and certainly not a reality
and the problem of Europe’s disarray in front of a few tens of thousands of migrants is indeed disheartening; but it was Italy who panicked first, offering itself as an easy target for the other countries’ punches; Italy should have offered adequate hospitality to all migrants, and only then maybe quietly issue a temporary permit; instead it explicitly declared that we couldn’t host them, and that the permit was the way to get rid of them in other countries! (I’m against Schengen, by the way – a piece of the Great Apartheid that is dividing the west from the rest of the world, where our weapons and capital flow freely)
the truth anyway is that Italy doesn’t count much any more on the international stage, and not only because of Berlusconi, but these incidents only increase our partners’ (?) contempt
but the whole issue is only very tangentially related to the problem of a new possible world order; only insofar as one believes that “Europe” as such should be a protagonist of such order; I’m not much convinced it’s possible, nor even desirable; European countries are – on the international stage – lawless, spoiled plutocracies that can’t operate together unless through an external leadership, which the Us long ago stopped providing;
the Libyan mess shows how far we are from abandoning our (sub)imperialistic instincts
a collection of second-tier powers must eventually get together and set new rules for the game, who’s in is in who’s out is out; you only lead those willing to follow;

Posted by: claudio | Apr 19 2011 0:39 utc | 11

@ Claudio “hu bris, presently the world isn’t governed at all, for the very reason that irresponsible global powers dominate the scene;”
ah but it IS governed, claudio – it’s just governed irresponsibly, by the sole superpower (possibly acting merely as a proxy for other more shadowy figures/entities with very great economic clout)
Were there more countries that would/could assert such power then the irresponsible superpower might (note I said might) decide to be a just a little less irresponsible.
Were there more than one world power then at the very least smaller nations might get some breathing-room by attempting to play them off against each other – I suppose in effect that is similar to what Libya was doing with it’s many contracts with Chinese businesses, but China does not seem willing to make any kind of response (military, economic or other) to this latest attack on Chinese economic expansion just yet – though it unclear just how long they will sit back and watch as the US uses it’s Military to thwart Chinese access to international sources of energy and raw materials.
it’s kinda looking very 1942 imho

Posted by: hu bris | Apr 19 2011 0:43 utc | 12

Why doesn’t Cohen just come out and say it? “The high point of civilization is the impoverishment of ordinary folks (ie. waging war.)”
Britain has instituted draconian cuts, which were advertised as covering the military, too. But military spending grows 5% per year. Britain attacks Libya. Social programs are gutted.
Sarko rolled back pensions. Now there is plenty of money for war.
American government’s discretionary, domestic spending is at its lowest level since Eisenhower. Next up are draconian cuts to Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, and other social programs. But military spending continues to grow unabated.
Warmongers are sociopaths.

Posted by: JohnH | Apr 19 2011 0:57 utc | 13

@hu bris – I agree on all you say, except one little point which I think is critical for a constructive analysis: what does it mean to govern?
I would like to save its classical meaning, and use the expressionto govern when there is a political entity that feels responsible, at least in part, for the outcomes of its actions or omissions;
within this sphere, you have politics, debates, passion, even wars and civil wars aimed at imposing one’s rules, values and interests on others
outside of this sphere, there is crude, stupid, senseless power, the one dominating today, that provokes anguish every time it manifests itself, and produces mostly failed states
I’d say that we traditionally had a mix of politics and power; then, within a few years, from the neolibs to the neocons, politics faded away, substituted by rhetoric (the empty, useless, hypocrite rhetoric of the left, or the hateful, dangerous rhetoric of the right), leaving a free hand to overgrown powers;
this process must still be adequately analyzed, especially the way that traditional democratic and “nationalistic” forces were swept away – or worse: crumbled and converted themselves to the new creeds

Posted by: claudio | Apr 19 2011 1:10 utc | 14

FROM: THE THEORY AND PRACTICE OF
OLIGARCHICAL COLLECTIVISM
by Emmanuel Goldstein

The primary aim of modern warfare …

[deleted much too long quote – b]

Posted by: hu bris | Apr 19 2011 1:14 utc | 15

That is an excellent link @16. It hits at the heart of the matter, and it’s why I recoil at the word “order.” Hierarchies seek order. Hierarchies are order, or an ordering of all things. So when you speak of replacing one world order with another, it’s replacing something with itself…..maybe with some eye shadow and lipstick applied for good measure.
What allows the Plutocratic Oligarchy to manifest? It’s the structure, and that structure is what we call Civilization. It’s a hierarchical system based on a centralized planned economy that seeks growth through the further exploitation of all resources, including human, and concentrates the wealth from the transformation of those resources into the hands of a small elite class at the top of the pyramid thus conferring upon this class the perception of great power and status that is ultimately utilized to perpetuate the system by employing a technocratic class to maintain the social order and status quo in regards to the general structure.
It’s about order….deliberate order, and to successfully combat it on every level, and to deprive it of its vitality and lifeblood, the opposite of it must be employed. Refuse, to the extent we are capable of it, to cooperate with it.

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Apr 19 2011 14:16 utc | 16

‘French want troops on ground in Libya: A senior French official says soldiers should be deployed on the ground in Libya to help guide NATO’s air strikes in support of the Libyan opposition.’
==================
Comment:
Now air strikes invariably kill civilians. This official knows that.
and for something a little more truth ful and humane:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/19/gaddafi-violence-exaggerated-british-group?CMP=twt_gu
Colour Revolution 101: Get demonstartors to agitate violently to cause govt to respond violence…media elides the protestors vioolence; this helps undermine the govts legimimacy . The implicattion is that no true democracy would crack down violently on vilent demonstrators

Posted by: brian | Apr 19 2011 21:37 utc | 17

‘They expressed sympathy for the Libyan regime’s restrictions placed on foreign media, which is not allowed to leave the Rixos without a government official and whose movements, even with minders, are highly circumscribed.
“One of the reasons you are being locked up is because your independence is being questioned,” Roberts said.
“It’s an obvious point – the [Libyan] government feels it is in a war situation, and feels the western press is facilitating this,” said another, implying that the media might call in co-ordinates for airstrikes to Nato’
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/19/gaddafi-violence-exaggerated-british-group?CMP=twt_gu
that why the french want ground troops (but media would do as well…or provocateurs like Raymond Davis)…to call in air strikes

Posted by: brian | Apr 19 2011 21:40 utc | 18

the old man must be turning in his grave
http://tinyurl.com/44p9olr
claudio
*now Germany is among the few “advanced” states that the world can hope to see contribute to the establishment of a more sane and balanced world order, with China and others*
morocco
*What? This is satire, correct?*
i thought u’re going to challenge the china angle
what gives ?
u subscribe to the theory that china n amerikka
are *partners in crimes*, dont u ?

Posted by: denk | Apr 20 2011 2:37 utc | 19

@19, yes, I do, but I didn’t have the energy. You can argue it if you like. I went to the heart of the matter, seeing that an argument of this hierarchy is better than that hierarchy is a abject lesson in futility.

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Apr 20 2011 11:28 utc | 20

no i’m just curious
thought u’ve changed ur mind after
more n more evidence are pointing to the contrary of ur theory

Posted by: denk | Apr 20 2011 16:18 utc | 21

@Mb & denk
sorry I suddenly had to interrupt that most interesting dialogue
@MB – it sounds like you are excusing yourself for being caught wandering in prohibited territory; I think the argument of different kinds of powers, and power constellations, is important; I don’t conceive a power necessarily as someone who orders you around, or pursues its interests and goals in defiance to any moral code; it might be such (and indeed it is today), but usually counterpowers exist that are strong enough to deter such behavior; I hope for a constellation of powers that accept – probably out of necessity and constriction – the principle of abiding by a set of rules, which weaker actors can rely upon; this kind of stability is not ideal nor permanent, but – as long as it lasts – it would be much better than the current state of affairs; for example, regulations on the banking and financial sector implemented by FDR after the 1929 crisis were better, for ordinary people and for social constructive forces, that the lawlessness that preceded them and that followed them thanks to the Clinton-Goldman Sachs administration;
I see two big fronts where we need to wage battle, in order to transform the national states in tools useful for the peaceful coexistence of our societies:
1) we need to wrest control of the public sphere and of governments from the national plutocracies that allied themselves with Us-rooted imperialism (rollback the neolib revolution);
2) we have to define collective identities that transcend the traditional bigotism, racism, suprematism and militarism of western societies (rollback the neocon revolution)
saying that power in general, and state power in particular, is anyways bad doesn’t help us on either front; it plays right in the hands of the neolib anti-government rhetoric, and in the hands of the neocon “democracies vs dictatorships” rhetoric, whereas we should be asking for strong governments (and not everywhere in the world today a strong government has the luxury of being also democratic) able to implement policies detrimental (or at least not totally subjugated) to plutocrats and colonialists on the internal and external fronts
@denk – what’s this thing of Usa and China being partners in crime? China has nationalistic goals, which it pursues in a somewhat selfish manner (similarly to Russia); but its strategy is clearly to gain time and strengthen itself before a showdown occurs with the Us, which might be declining but are still immensely more powerful than China, or Russia or any other country; if thing play out well, there won’t even be a showdown, because the Us will find in its better interest to cede its empire as gracefully as the soviets did; but things could play out in many different and worse ways
I mean, there are strength relations within which people and institutions are immersed, and not everyone has the inclination or can afford the luxury to just refuse to play the game because the rules are unfair and the referees are corrupt

Posted by: claudio | Apr 20 2011 17:11 utc | 22

claudio
*what’s this thing of Usa and China being partners in crime?*
well morocco has been advancing this theory in various sites
in fact he went so far as to suggest china is the new *evil empire* usurping amerikka’s rule
i issued this challenge to him about 1 yr ago….
*as for china the new “satan” taking over the reign from amerikka …….
you wanna bet ?
if ten yrs from now, i’ll make it fifty if you are game, you hear a news bulletin which announe that “200 civilians, mostly women and children, were killed in a bombing raid this morning in……[some 3 world country]“,
who’d you think the perpetrator might be, i say it would still be amerikka and its nato cohorts.*
looks like the global warlords can hardly wait to vindicate my prediction.
oh, time to call it a day
good nite/morning claudio n morocco

Posted by: denk | Apr 20 2011 17:59 utc | 23

@denk

if ten yrs from now, i’ll make it fifty if you are game, you hear a news bulletin which announe that “200 civilians, mostly women and children, were killed in a bombing raid this morning in……[some 3 world country]“,
who’d you think the perpetrator might be, i say it would still be amerikka and its nato cohorts.

may I join in on the bet?

Posted by: claudio | Apr 20 2011 18:16 utc | 24

@23, that is patently false. I never said any such thing. I do believe China and the US are Partners In Crime in the sense that they are both Hierarchical Structures that seek to protect the interests of a very few, at the expense of the many. Both employ Totalitarian methods to accomplish this….the U.S. model being a bit more sophisticated in rendering its populace impotent with education designed to destroy creative and critical thought, and bread and circuses 24/7. Otherwise, China’s goals and aspirations are the same as Civilization’s goals and aspirations, and that is to exponentially exploit and transform the resources of this planet, and the Universe if it could, until there is nothing left to exploit and consume but itself, and we are fast approaching that limit. The various regional Plutocratic Oligarchies are closer than they’ve ever been. They’re enabling each other every chance they get, and concentrating wealth concomitantly.
Here’s just one example of that partnership.
http://www.naomiklein.org/articles/2008/05/chinas-all-seeing-eye

With the help of U.S. defense contractors, China is building the prototype for a high-tech police state. It is ready for export.
he crackdown in Tibet has set off a wave of righteous rallies and boycott calls. But it sidesteps the uncomfortable fact that much of China’s powerful surveillance state is already being built with U.S. and European technology. In February 2006, a congressional subcommittee held a hearing on “The Internet in China: A Tool for Freedom or Suppression?” Called on the carpet were Google (for building a special Chinese search engine that blocked sensitive material), Cisco (for supplying hardware for China’s Great Firewall), Microsoft (for taking down political blogs at the behest of Beijing) and Yahoo (for complying with requests to hand over e-mail-account information that led to the arrest and imprisonment of a high-profile Chinese journalist, as well as a dissident who had criticized corrupt officials in online discussion groups). The issue came up again during the recent Tibet uproar when it was discovered that both MSN and Yahoo had briefly put up the mug shots of the “most wanted” Tibetan protesters on their Chinese news portals.
In all of these cases, U.S. multinationals have offered the same defense: Cooperating with draconian demands to turn in customers and censor material is, unfortunately, the price of doing business in China. Some, like Google, have argued that despite having to limit access to the Internet, they are contributing to an overall increase of freedom in China. It’s a story that glosses over the much larger scandal of what is actually taking place: Western investors stampeding into the country, possibly in violation of the law, with the sole purpose of helping the Communist Party spend billions of dollars building Police State 2.0. This isn’t an unfortunate cost of doing business in China: It’s the goal of doing business in China. “Come help us spy!” the Chinese government has said to the world. And the world’s leading technology companies are eagerly answering the call.
As The New York Times recently reported, aiding and abetting Beijing has become an investment boom for U.S. companies. Honeywell is working with Chinese police to “set up an elaborate computer monitoring system to analyze feeds from indoor and outdoor cameras in one of Beijing’s most populated districts.” General Electric is providing Beijing police with a security system that controls “thousands of video cameras simultaneously, and automatically alerts them to suspicious or fast-moving objects, like people running.” IBM, meanwhile, is installing its “Smart Surveillance System” in the capital, another system for linking video cameras and scanning for trouble, while United Technologies is in Guangzhou, helping to customize a “2,000-camera network in a single large neighborhood, the first step toward a citywide network of 250,000 cameras to be installed before the Asian Games in 2010.” By next year, the Chinese internal-security market will be worth an estimated $33 billion — around the same amount Congress has allocated for reconstructing Iraq.

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Apr 20 2011 19:36 utc | 25

Wow, if you took China out of the following article and replaced it with the U.S., it wouldn’t make a difference. One matches the other, the only difference being scale, but not to worry, China has shown that when it’s focused and dedicated to a cause, scale can be achieved in a very short time. It’s as though China is Little Sibling to the U.S……following in its footsteps. Right now its in its Gilded Age Phase, and the U.S. is returning to the Gilded Age Phase. Funny, why would that be? Meet the New World Order….same as the Old World Order, but now with 30% more for free, and a new and improved flavor.
http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?id=engasa170302006&lang=e

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Apr 20 2011 20:05 utc | 26

claudio
*may I join in on the bet?*
but mb didnt take it up, not enough conviction of his own
rhetorics perhaps ?
mb
* that is patently false.*
mb
*the two countries will partner, behind the scenes, with this
boastful rhetoric bandied about as cover.*
http://tinyurl.com/455xzku
*the crackdown in Tibet has set off a wave of righteous rallies
and boycott calls*
ah, klein the *liberal* sounds like the echo chamber for the msm here, they talked about *crackdown* but never tell u why
http://tinyurl.com/2645h9p
[from the anti china cnn, no less]
http://tinyurl.com/3zes227
the chinese police were roundly chided for their tardy reaction to
the riots, if similar violence occurs in amerikka, how long does it
take before the swat team or the national guards to swoop in n
shoot on sight , ?
n who’s behind those righteous rallies and boycotts calls ?
http://tinyurl.com/6cx8xx
who’s behind the riots ?
http://tinyurl.com/4exmzm
[some *partership* eh?]
somehow the same self righteous *hr* crusaders never call for boycotting amerikka , uk over iraq, afghpak ?
anybody hear the *ic* making a fuss over the 2012 olympics ?
*As The New York Times recently reported, aiding and abetting
Beijing has become an investment boom for U.S. companies*
so this is ur *proof* of *partership* ?
amerikkan companies were doing big biz with the libyans for the
past decade n what happens to libya now ?
mb, u just dont know how nefarious ur wall st n pentagoons are,
they have ur money but they still wanna screw u at the same
time. they even coined a special word for it, *congagement* [sic]
+u.S. big business wants it both ways with China. Boeing wants
to sell its planes there. Intel wants it to buy computer chips. Philip Morris wants to market its cigarettes. But they all want to diminish China as a world power, tear pieces off if they can, and make sure that China’s modernization does not strengthen its socialist state property. It’s the job of President Clinton and the
foreign policy establishment to facilitate commercial relations with China while also letting the Pentagon, the CIA, and the other agencies of imperialist aggression do their thing.+
http://tinyurl.com/66dur4
*Wow, if you took China out of the following article and replaced
it with the U.S., it wouldn’t make a difference*
really ? i told u before, china on its worst day is kindergarten stuff compared to amerikka.
http://tinyurl.com/3h5w94m
this is genocide in broad daylight mb, n just the tip of the iceberg
*The equipment supplied by China to armed forces and law
enforcement agencies includes major conventional weapons,
small arms and light weapons, and police and security
equipment. In conflicts worldwide the use of such equipment frequently violates human rights law and international
humanitarian law (the Geneva Conventions and other laws of war)including provisions prohibiting torture and other cruel,
inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
http://tinyurl.com/3w25bun
wow
ai the *hr* arbitrar ?
u know something mb ?
the day ai hold amerikka to account for its serial violations of
the geneva convention, may be, just may be the chinese would
take them seriously
http://tinyurl.com/dxy23z
*One matches the other, the only difference being scale, but not
to worry, China has shown that when it’s focused and dedicated
to a cause, scale can be achieved in a very short time. *
u wanna bet ?
in the next ten yrs, if u hear this news bulletin about an air raid
over some third world country, killing hundres of civilians…….

Posted by: denk | Apr 21 2011 5:02 utc | 27

Wow, denk, thanks for that tiny url link to our past debate. I knew your nic sounded familiar. No need to rehash the debate. You were thoroughly trounced in that one, so to continue it here would be redundant and wasted effort. Plus, it really was never a debate. You are incapable of honest dialogue and your English skills and grammar are atrocious. I can’t even read it, let alone follow your incoherency.
Hey, but if it makes you feel better, the U.S. is the Great Satan and it always will be because Allah has said it is so. End of discussion. Easy Peesy, Lemon Squeezy. No need to say anything further. Everybody move to China while you still have a chance. Denk will help relocate you to this veritable paradise.

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Apr 21 2011 12:21 utc | 28

mb subscribes to the conspiracy theory that china n amerikka are *partners in crimes* ?
mb
* that is patently false.*
mb
*the two countries will partner, behind the scenes, with this
boastful rhetoric bandied about as cover.*
hehehe
*Hey, but if it makes you feel better, the U.S. is the Great Satan and it always will be because Allah has said it is so.*
the international community [as differ from the *ic*, aka the anglophone] says so, now thats something
http://tinyurl.com/5mezy
why does it take all these yrs for u to see the light ?
are u kidding ?
why should i feel *better* when the criminals are holding court ?
http://tinyurl.com/3kv5llt

Posted by: denk | Apr 21 2011 15:37 utc | 29

in fact he went so far as to suggest china is the new *evil empire* usurping amerikka’s rule
The above statement of your’s is patently false. You put words in my mouth. I never said that, or implied it, and that’s why I thanked you for your link to our previous debate. If that’s what you take from that debate/discussion, then there’s no arguing with you. Your misinterpretations after numerous clarifications on my part are tedious and exasperating, not to mention I feel like I am conversing with a invalid.

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Apr 21 2011 16:24 utc | 30

*The above statement of your’s is patently false. You put words in my mouth. I never said that, or implied it*
u implied it alright
see, there’s this *power vaccum* that china is gonna exploit to become the new *top dog* ?
and if u’ve been really *connecting the dots*, u ought to have seen the pattern by now….
+Intervention will allow Western forces to control an oil rich region, and perhaps to expel the present holders of concessions. The fact that the biggest of these is China, and that America’s other foreign adventures also seem to have as their goal the control of energy supplies to that strategic rival, only adds further piquancy to what is, otherwise, an all too banal case of modern imperialistic meddling.+
http://tinyurl.com/ogtfh7
so much for ur *partners in crimes* conspiracy theory !

Posted by: denk | Apr 21 2011 16:42 utc | 31

From denk’s site where we had the quasi debate, if you call conversing with a bot a debate, or advisable.

Therese
Jun 1, 2010 at 11:11 am
Jews and their tools are scum.
Reply

This Therese would post such statements at David G’s site repeatedly, and he would never censor her. He censored me though on several occasions, and I never did such a thing, nor would I do such a thing. denk came to David G’s from ICH where the rabid jew haters congregate and that site’s alleged proprietor would allow it, while censoring anyone who called the jew haters out. I no longer visit either of those sites because I believe they are a psyops of some sort. A honey trap for the naive who are searching for easy answers on a platter and there are all too many that imply if we just exterminate a certain few, the troubles of the world will disappear. Sorry, denk, not biting. The system must be changed by all inhabitants of the globe in a united effort, otherwise, your solution, and I’m inferring it because you seem to not be able to postulate a coherent narrative except to repeat “amerikka” every other word, is to eliminate the U.S. How about several dozen nukes distributed equally across the amber waves of grain and the purple mountains majesty? Would that do it, denk? Then the world could get on with being its peaceful self now that the menace has been eliminated.
Hitler thought the same way, so you’re in good company.

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Apr 21 2011 19:59 utc | 32

Here’s another uncensored comment from one of denk’s favorite sites.

Therese
May 30, 2010 at 9:59 pm
Actually, Hitler tried, unsuccessfully, to save Germans from the Jews. Truth out!
Reply

If you review that site, these hateful racist slurs from Therese are replete and uncensored, meaning the site’s proprietor approves of them. And denk not only frequents that site, but he links to it. Like I said, I posted there for several months before putting all the dots together and noticing the pattern….it’s why I don’t visit there any longer.
denk, I’ve had enough of your propaganda and provocations. I will skip over you from here on out, because I believe you to be disingenuous and antagonistic. You have made no effort to engage in legitimate, honest dialogue with not just me, but anyone here. In deference to b, I will no longer engage you and take up unneeded bandwidth. Anyone who’s watching has seen the evidence and knows where I stand. I’ve been quite verbose about it. Some will agree with my views, others will not. Quite honestly, I don’t know what you think. You’ve really never said, so I’m not sure there’s even an argument and that only further supports my decision to look past you.

Posted by: Morocco Bama | Apr 21 2011 20:10 utc | 33

mb
i’ve rip ur *china n amerikka partners in crimes* conspiracy theory, now about this *anti semites* bs
the other day u insinuated that denk = henk , the *anti semite * poster at ich
http://tinyurl.com/44y8vce
funny u didnt notice that henk shared ur conpiracy theory , that china n amerikka are putting on a *dog n pony* show to mask their secret alliance.
i posed this question to henk one day,
+u mean china perpetrated this heinous act on its own citizens just to hookwink the world ?*
http://tinyurl.com/ykmqc4j
http://tinyurl.com/ko58au
he had no answer n neither do u
so much for ur *connecting the dots* lol
*there are all too many that imply if we just exterminate a certain few, the troubles of the world will disappear*
if u start with fukus [courtesy debs] , it’d be just about right
http://www.countercurrents.org/ulrich030407.htm
life must be tough mb
u ran away from the *antisemite* ich, dangerous creation etc, n run right into another *antisemite* denk here lol
now whats all this fuss about antisemitism ?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=anti-semite

Posted by: denk | Apr 22 2011 7:57 utc | 34

p.s.
rip = rest in peace

Posted by: denk | Apr 22 2011 8:01 utc | 35