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Juan Cole’s Warmongering
Urging the killing of Libyans Juan Cole published Top Ten Ways that Libya 2011 is Not Iraq 2003.
I'll not bother to refute all his points. For anyone halfway awake it is self evident that all the ten points he mentions are rather pointing to similarities than to differences in the arguments for both of those wars.
For example he says "The United States did not take the lead role .." on Libya while the NYT reported on the 18th of March that the relevant UN resolution was drafted by the U.S. and the U.S. obviously led the military action. He says "None of the United Nations allies envisages landing troops on the ground" while there are many reports public that British SAS special forces have been caught on the ground even before the UN resolution.
So Cole's pamphlet is just pro-war propaganda. On all ten points the War on Libya is indeed like the War on Iraq.
But there is an additional point Cole doesn't mention where the War on Libya is the same idiocity as the War on Iraq has been.
Juan Cole supported both of these wars. On March 19 2003 he wrote:
I remain convinced that, for all the concerns one might have about the aftermath, the removal of Saddam Hussein and the murderous Baath regime from power will be worth the sacrifices that are about to be made on all sides.
Since mid March 2011 Cole is obviously propagandizing for War on Libya.
His latest pamphlet An Open Letter to the Left on Libya (notice where the title puts himself) is just a stupid attack on sane thinking. Did the Koch brothers pay for that?
Since mid March 2011 Cole is obviously propagandizing for War on Libya.
Nonsense… that link says no such thing. He’s advocating nothing, rather giving a damn accurate account of things.
Cole never advocated for. Nor has he advocated invading Iran, as you’ve also said.
You linked “account” I quote above… everything @ beginning of article, is of Qaddafi’s military actions against his own people. It is also an account that (I’m sorry to say) you (b) never mentioned, that I’m aware, in your characterization of this event, your chronicling of this thing.
The US *didn’t* take the lead, none of this NATO group did… they all were way late, long after many (beyond Libyan borders) were asking for western “help”. Long after: this happened at the last minute: another day or 2, and Q would have levelled ’em, completely, as was his stated goal.
Please tell me which nations bordering or associated w/SH’s Iraq were asking for US “help”? A few exiled, US funded groups, yes… but what nations? Or groups of them?
How many million person marches has this Libyan affair generated? They were everywhere, on every continent, in protest of Iraq.
Collin Powell gave “clear and convincing” evidence, while Bush beat Security Council over the head (and lied: said there would be “no force” w/out their consent): all of Powell’s presentation… all of it, was lies.
What are the US lies behind rebel forces actions, ideas, or desires? Show me where any influence, whatsoever, was involved in this, much less worldwide propaganda on even miniscule scale, compared to Iraq.
I whole heartedly disaggree w/your assertion: this is and was nothing like Iraq.
Your not acknowledging what Q was doing to his own does not make it go away: it was part of the puzzle, and the decisive part tipping scales for this effort (however poorly executed).
You headlined when Arab league was waffling, did not say when they recommitted. On a whole host of things, I find you picking facts that suit this whole MoA meme… something I find most unlike you.
On world scale, Libian oil is small potatoes… signficant wealth for their state, but very small % of production. The most dependent western country for this goo is Italy, a willing participant. And I stress… *willing*.
World production could adjust to worst case of diminished Libyan production if needed. Libya is not a strategically significant oil producer: they could force reorganization of distribution.
Iraq has, by some estimates, largest reserves on the planet.
…
I posted my comments why Libya was not Iraq a day before Cole did: there are similarities, but I listed many more.
Bottom line: you are seeing what you want to see, not what’s there. You may be angry over Iraq, or US’ many transgressions these recent years, and I sure can’t argue against that.
But this whole thing here has taken on a cult like tone… US/mega international corp. spooks are behind it all, ya’ll just waiting for the evidence… but it’s so!!!
How many here have said ElBaradei is a US’ tool? Really, has anyone listened to him over these recent years, much less during Egypt’s event?
And France, well, they see wind/solar generators all over N. Africa, so that explains that, right?
Sheesh…
I won’t bother you all anymore, unless some sanity returns here.
You’re a very smart guy Bernard, and like I said prior, I have high respect for you: the work/time it takes, and particularly the poignant, character defining stuff you’ve dug up, over and over, on very important events. I’d ad also, almost all of what I’m thinking in this regard was stuff I didn’t see anywhere else:
* Rove’s visit to Georgia just before their “event” a couple years ago, and Israeli munitions identified on the ground… conclusively.
* All the mothballed shipping containers early on in “financial crisis”… a damn telling pre-cursor to what happened.
* Same w/BushCo alledged Iranian IED’s in early Iraq “liberation”: I don’t know where you dug up those photos, but they were conclusive.
(many, many more)
So again, I’m not trying to ream you. I’m just telling you, this has come off the rails here. You’re feeding an MofA mob right now, and there’s as much misinformation here as I’ve seen.
I know, I know, I just *must* be an agent of Empire, duped into submission, yada yada yada… whatever.
Like I said before, I hope you all can blow out the tubes… you really need a break. It’s getting ridiculous.
Posted by: jdmckay | Mar 30 2011 4:10 utc | 38
DiD @ 42:
A heap of shit is being talked about libyan oil firstly the lowball % of Libyan oil in regard to the rest of the world is far too low
Nonsense.
Libya is +/- 2% of world oil supply, prior to current event. OPEC has stated explicitly they have unused capacity capable of doubling Libya output, and could do so quickly. Factoring in Libya’s domestic consumption, they’re net exporter of around 1.3-1.5 mbd… about what’s projected should ANWAR be developed.
Libya refines around 25% of it’s production.
and could become much higher in the future,
Libyan producing fields represent +/- 60% of total reserves.
secondly little or no regard is paid the the type of oil Libya produces.
Nonsense.
This information is chronicled, available readily, and often linked by energy/oil media/bloggers etc… there is not only attention paid, it is quantified… right down to which nations get what grade of Libyan oil. It’s no secret, period.
See here (EIA), for example. Or, to out it bluntly: your not knowing, w/all due respect, is not evidence of what the rest of informed humanity knows.
Beyond that, just over 50% of their current production is “light & sweet” (eg: High API, low sulfur): remainder varies upward (less sweet… higher refining costs) in varying degrees.
Iraq reserves dwarf Libya’s… minuscule, on a ratio at least 10/1… likely much more.
Not withstanding the large volume of smoke you generate, while saying nothing explicit much less accurate, one must do substantial misrepresentation… just as you have above, in order to conclude that on this issue (same as the others, but…) Libya is Iraq.
It is not.
…
Beyond the myopic presentation of contorted made up fact here lately, as I stated w/enough links to (at minimum) consider: US (we) have paid huge price… influence, credibility, trust, as a result of Iraq.
Abundant evidence in huge shift… reorganization, wrt to global economics… anyone who things otherwise is, for whatever reasons, misinformed.
China has, in last 5 yrs, openly and massively ursurped US influence, having penned more agreements for more resources (not just oil) globally. It is, indeed, a profound shift. And this shift is not just because of their emerging clout. Rather, it is many times magnified because global trading partners, although (IMO) much too “polite” about it, simply don’t trust us anymore.
Even much evidence now that Taiwan is giving serious consideration to China as their preferred guardian angel.
While we’re using drones to shoot up wedding parties in Afghanistan, China is building their own, home grown technology and manufactured clean coal there… something US is currently politically incapable of even discussing, much less implementing.
Evidence is vast… far and wide. Things have changed. The planet has reorganized while myopia entranced US’Asians and other “westerners” were transfixed on Iraq.
Not trying to pick a fight, but really… you’re spouting nonsense, regularly.
I’ll tell you something else (I know nothing of what you do, who you are, backround or whatever): you can eat veggies, do Pilates, Yoga and whatever else New Age stuff there is to make one feel better. But I promise you, whatever level of self justified reasoning humans use… you allow an all consuming anger to rule you (rather then you it), when you get old an gray that anger will obviate whatever health conscious efforts you made over a lifetime.
Everybody gets pissed. Only fools stay that way.
Posted by: jdmckay | Mar 30 2011 12:20 utc | 44
The one heartening aspect of this attack on Libya is that it is an indication of deeply entrenched hubris, of the terminal sort.
The underlying idea is that, if the policy can be sold efficiently enough to quieten Congress and win any kind of approval in polls of the masses, nothing else matters. Nothing else including what public opinion, among those ineligible to vote in next year’s elections, thinks. How foreign governments react and what the costs, in terms of blood, treasure and the re-marshalling of forces, will be- these are all technical matters, irrelevancies which it is the job of propagandists, budget managers and transportation officers to work out.
What is forgotten is that, in real terms, there is no “War” waged by terrorists against the US. There could be. There might be. If there isn’t it won’t be America’s fault: every effort that could be made to provoke terrorism has been made. No expense has been spared. The US government craves for such a war, it lusts after terror attacks, it longs not merely for bomb plots but for bombings. Of there is one aspect of war that the US does not understand it is that of actually being under attack. Putting aside the events of 9/11 and Pearl Harbour thousands of miles away in the Pacific, it has no experience of being attacked. Perhaps this is why there is such complete insouciance in the constant provocations offered to muslims, for example.
If there were a real war all those hundreds of bases, hundreds of golf and country clubs, hundreds of High Schools and hospitals, supermarkets and shopping malls abroad, for US personnel, would be understood to be sitting targets for bombers, so many points of extreme vulnerability. But they are not. The number of bases and their cost and the complexity of, for example, the Embassies in Baghdad and Islamabad, is growing rapidly. The US seems to have no conception of its enormous vulnerability. Or perhaps it does.
There is no War of Terrorists and no foreign power is either arming or assisting those wishing to attack the US. The Taliban have none of the military or financial aid that theor predecessors in Afghanistan got from the CIA. No anti-aircraft missiles; no bribes to ‘turn’ allies of the imperialists; the helicopters lumber, with impunity over the battlefields, the star wars style gun ships hover a hundred feet or so above the ground as they pour machine gun fire into the wedding parties. The Red Army was not so lucky.
As to the moral of this story: it is simply that aggression never comes without cost. As the US has gone wild with violence, at the drop of a hat, almost for the fun of it, in the past couple of decades, it has grown, not stronger as its enemies have been liquidated, but weaker. Every victory has come at a cost. And thus it is that the state, on the eve, one supposes, of the challenges that it has thrown out, being answered, with the war that it seems to desire so much clearly bound to come, wastes its strength and substance and discredits its integrity.
Nothing more clearly demonstrates the immense power of the US, than the fact that it allows that power to be exercised by, someone as emotionally unbalanced and intellectually immature, as Hillary Clinton. And not only her, but, one might add, persons in the position of Juan Cole, publicity hounds, the polite up-market versions of Limbaugh and Savage. Up=market but catering to the same ctaste for highly spiced, manichean guides to instantly gratifying evagelicalism.
Posted by: bevin | Mar 30 2011 15:34 utc | 51
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