Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 15, 2010
WikiLeaks: Observing The Effects II

The more secretive or unjust an organization is, the more leaks induce fear and paranoia in its leadership and planning coterie. This must result in minimization of efficient internal communications mechanisms (an increase in cognitive “secrecy tax”) and consequent system-wide cognitive decline resulting in decreased ability to hold onto power as the environment demands adaption.
Julian Assange: The non linear effects of leaks on unjust systems of governance, Dec 31, 2006 (pdf) via

The U.S. Air Force just cyber-defeated itself by falling into the trap andby decreasing the information available for its operators:

The Air Force is blocking computer access to The New York Times and other media sites that published sensitive diplomatic documents released by the Internet site WikiLeaks, a spokeswoman said Tuesday.

Tones said the New York Times is the only major U.S. newspaper included in the ban. Others include Der Spiegel in Germany, the Guardian in Britain and Le Monde in France.

Tones said that the 24th Air Force routinely blocks network access to websites that host inappropriate material, including classified information such as that released by WikiLeaks. Any computer on the Air Force network is now unable to link to the sites.

Without access to major world media the Air Force will be unable to assess the political implication of its operations. Air Force actors in contact with allies as well as adversaries will now have less knowledge then their contacts. This will lead to misjudgments. It also allows foreign actors to manipulate Air Force personal.

Fine with me. Such utter silliness requires punishment.

Comments

that’s nuts. i wonder if they will monitor their emails too in case anyone from home should send them reports.

Posted by: annie | Dec 15 2010 16:42 utc | 1

i wonder if they will monitor their emails too in case anyone from home should send them reports.
If they do, lots of people would have fun mass emailing those cables to Air Force addresses. It would devastate their information infrastructure …

Posted by: b | Dec 15 2010 17:04 utc | 2

the main reason for blocking NYT is because there is classified information that is being published in wikileaks. Once classified information is introduced into the unclassified network there are a lot of things that have to be done and it is a major pain. So to avoid that the sites that host that information are blocked. many other sites are blocked as well…even lespeakeasy.
and yes Annie, the mail is checked too. Spam is nothing new either, the majority of email received is spam and filtered out.

Posted by: dan of steele | Dec 15 2010 17:58 utc | 3

@dos – Once classified information is introduced into the unclassified network there are a lot of things that have to be done and it is a major pain.
Then there is something serious wrong with handling this. It is nearly impossible to keep the unclassified network untainted from the cables. I could just send a mail to any af.mil address with a cable attached or some “interesting links” included to cable sites to “infect” that network. Using a bot net this can easily be done in mass. If the air-force does not have any better concept to tackle the problem than to prohibit visits to major news sites it opens itself to a multitude of cheap “attack” concepts that will give it a major headache like the need to shut down all email access from the outside.
And those are the folks that wanted to be the major “cyber” force … idiots that didn’t even get the most basic concepts.

Posted by: b | Dec 15 2010 18:47 utc | 4

The Addictive Organization: Why We Overwork, Cover Up, Pick Up the Pieces, Please the Boss, and Perpetuate Sick Organizations

Schaef and Fassel show how managers, workers, and organization members exhibit the classic symptoms of addiction: denying and avoiding problems, assuming that there is no other way of acting, and manipulating events to maintain the status quo.

Posted by: . | Dec 15 2010 20:28 utc | 5

not trying to defend the air force but as you know the biggest threat to network security is from inside. education continues in that respect and everyone has been made aware of the danger of introducing classified onto the network. for those who can’t hear or do not understand, the added precaution of blocking potentially dangerous sites is done as well.
reading the NYT or not will not affect the mission of the USAF. for those who need to know there are other networks that can safely handle classified info.
this is not something that only the US military does, many private companies restrict internet use to official business only.

Posted by: dan of steele | Dec 15 2010 21:17 utc | 6

http://cryptome.org/0003/wikileaks-amok.htm
Wikileaks Cables Amok
A sends:
In the last days I have been following the release of a bunch of US diplomatic cables from W-i-k-i-l-e-a-k-s. All of them were initially released uncensored but as you might know some of them have been removed, others have been partially redacted (a.k.a. censored) without any kind of prior notice.
The people from WL said that they will redact some of the names in order to remove personal identifiable information but in fact they have removed full paragraphs that although they could be a little bit embarrassing for US diplomacy they do not put anybody at risk.
For example:
– There were 13 cables deleted from WL cablegate site (e.g.: #09LONDON1385).
– At least 11 cables were slightly redacted (e.g.: #07PARIS322).
– 138 cables published by Lebanese Al-Akhbar paper but not yet put into WL.
– 33 cables disclosed by the British paper The Guardian but not yet in WL.
I have not seen or read any news regarding this strange change of policy in any media so this is the reason I think you might be interested to know about it and maybe publish it in your site for public scrutiny.
You can check the differences with the uncensored cables at:
* http://leakager742hufco.onion (with tor as its a hidden service)
* http://www.mein-parteibuch.org.nyud.net/cablegate/

Posted by: Anthony | Dec 16 2010 1:51 utc | 7

Slightly on-topic and very under-reported:
the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that the government must have a search warrant before it can secretly seize and search emails stored by email service providers.
Regarding WL, my sense, based on my informal survey of otherwise conscious friends and acquaintances, is that relatively very few people are eagerly searching for new releases. Most are either passively waiting for the MSM to process, package and spin the info into tasty morsels like so many cans of dog food with pre-digested protein. Not the game-changer we hoped it would be, at least not in the near term.

Posted by: Biklett | Dec 16 2010 5:55 utc | 8

As expected: U.S. Tries to Build Case for Conspiracy by WikiLeaks – NYT

Posted by: b | Dec 16 2010 7:13 utc | 9

#7 ? I have just spent a great deal of time trying to track down the alleged changes that the second link page tossed on about with the wikileaks cables. The first link doesn’t work. The second to a bloke or site, calling itself privet_bank reckoned wikileaks had censored some of the cables, in particular that telaviv one 05TELAVIV1580 and 09BAGHDAD3195
THe tel aviv cable is just the Dagan one Annie and I were discussing the other day and it is word for word identical across all iterations. Early versions appeared word wrapped and later versions were not this seems to vary the character count slightly I think because the carriage return counts as 1 character. As already discussed the hashes for these files and the file sizes vary incredibly, while the content remains the same.
privet_bank (sounds like the worst sort of englander, a petty pedant, to me) says this about 09BAGHDAD3195 “Recent change from December 5, 19:45 is content removal from 09BAGHDAD3195”
Aha something to get my teeth into actual ‘content removal’ which turned out to be no more than cutting the names of the informants out, as WL said they would do after NYT Guardian et al did their sensible parent act. Those names which all the same WL critics were hauling Assange over the coals for on the grounds he was endangering lives. (I had a debate with one months ago after the afghani thing he was some bullshit baby boomer academic whose idea of sorting someone out was to threaten not to send any more cheques. I wonder if it works with his kids.
Anyway that debate quickly boiled down to him patronisingly redefining my phrases without ever actually discussing the point. Two weeks later he ran another column the substance of which was exactly what I had been saying all along, that the name redaction thing was a distraction an attempt by actual murderers to blame imaginary murders on Assange I guess he mist have discoverd that it was OK on campus to be pro Wikileaks LOL I tell ya these now aged types who advocated ‘changing the system from within’ all those years ago, are the biggest hinderance to progressive resistance of the lot. They can’t face the reality of having been used and tossed aside by those in power, so they attack those who are actually doing something now (as opposed to ‘back in the 70’s) out of some mixture of envy & guilt)
There seems to be a lot, and I mean really a lot of venom directed at Assange and WL by others who thought of the WL idea but whose implementation was sadly lacking, for mine, John Young at cryptome is one of those.
I have watched Young’s attacks on WikiLeaks in general and Julian Assange in particular get more hysterical as WikiLeaks public profile has become more reknown.
Some of his babbling seems positively foaming at the mouth, especially when he accuses WL of being a sell-out after he publishes the WikiLeaks mailing list on crytome. See if sense can be made of this it looks to me as if the green eyed monster has Young by the balls, Assange seems aware of this that every little hint about how many documents he has waiting to be released will drive Young into a further paroxym of rage and paranoia, so he tweaks him a couple times for fun until he realises that Young actually does intend publishing the WL mailing list, then he tries reason and politeness which didn’t work.
WL would be mad not to take money from the newspapers who they gave access, got to pay for the servers somehow, but it is entirely likely they have been caught in some situation where they have to publish cables as redacted by the media outlets, so that is what happens.
As for the ‘missing’ cables the fact that they go missing for a while then resurface, pretty much supports what was discussed in another thread, that there are so many mirrors and everything has become complicated especially with the bit of having to release cables as the newspapers do, that mistakes are happening.
I was pissed off that some NZ cables appeared in the media and not on the WL site and this meant the govt and the crooked journos who had been taking free trips courtesy of the amerikan govt, had their stories straight before the cables were published.
The guy who released the story (bloke by the name of Nicky Hager) fancies himself as a bit of a cypherpunk himself so it is entirely likely that some of the peeps WL released all the cables to, many of whom seem to be acquaintances of Assange’s from back then) are running their own agendas of “WikiLeaks has sold out, I’m the genuine article. Make me a celebrity – even though I will hide behind a nym” without understanding the dichotomy caused by that position.
So maybe the NZ cables weren’t an official WL release more of an angry white ant. The fact the opportunity to hold the journos accountable has been lost is sacrificed for the greater good; anonymous self promotion. Even worse the fishwrap which ran the story last Sunday has deleted the guts of the story which names the journalists from it’s website, along with the six cables now found here . Now that is censorship, not wikileaks though just the dodgy media here and their equally dodgy pseudo-lefty journos.
I’m almost scared to mention his name lest it start it all up again, but the way that other lefty commentators treated Michael Moore when he became well known outside of political circles, is what makes me truly despair about the future of progressive movements.
D’ya reckon the powerful and the asshole suckup media who support them haven’t noticed that the best way to deal with someone who has become a major pain, is to promote him/her up, not squish ’em down. Make em famous and knee jerks will turn on them and deal to them nuch better than any beat-up sexual charges could.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Dec 16 2010 8:35 utc | 10

As suspected: Julian Assange bail decision made by UK authorities, not Sweden.
Some pressure from across the pond (as the British say) ?

Posted by: philippe | Dec 16 2010 9:03 utc | 11

Uncanny…as I was just thinking about the surreality of blocking the NYT and had read that quote of Assange’s some time back.
Now visible is the reaction to publishing of WL diplo cables, which is:
1) bureaucratic, rule and procedure driven, in an automatic, empty way. Huge top-down organizations tend to behave this way, the rules themselves become their own justification. Followed they must be, as they have become the backbone or the heart (not the brain) of the activity itself. At a lower level (e.g. business, small Gvmt. agency, etc.) it is bureaucratic creep, and has to be watched and guarded against, ultimately, fought. In some situations no review, task force, strategic planning or outside hand, can halt it, and the only outcome is implosion caused by outside forces. The system can’t survive with its rules but can’t abandon them either.
2) vicious, and extra-judicial. (E.g. Obama’s signing on to extra-judicial assassination, Assange’s arrest, detention, CIA renditions, etc.) This is typical as well. When the rule of law (international agreements or local byelaws, so any level) no longer functions, has been corrupted by dismantling an independent judiciary, or has devolved into a slave-labor system that benefits some actors (US), or leaves too many with no redress, recognition, or is in the hands of a corrupt police, or simply makes a mockery of common sense and dearly held principles, then, it becomes necessary to act outside of the rule of law and instituted principles. For all parties – the powerful of course have an easier time of it!
3) slow, clumsy and bumbling, because the contradictions between 1 and 2 are almost impossible to overcome except with jackboots. Ineffective, ultimately, as well.

Posted by: Noirette | Dec 16 2010 16:42 utc | 12

I think what motivated Julian Assange more than anything else to release damning evidence on the American Empire is the fact that the spineless Democrats let the sociopathic Bushies get away with lying us into war with Iraq and engaging in illegal torture and other crimes against humanity. Then again, my thoughts on this may indeed have little if anything to do with his thoughts on this.

Posted by: Cynthia | Dec 16 2010 20:55 utc | 13

Fascism: to seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy.
snip
Via Dissident Voice:

Leaked Cable: Hike Food Prices To Boost GM Crop Approval In Europe
In a January 2008 meeting, US and Spain trade officials strategized how to increase acceptance of genetically modified foods in Europe, including inflating food prices on the commodities market, according to a leaked US diplomatic cable released by WikiLeaks.
During the meeting, Secretary of State for International Trade, Pedro Mejia, and Secretary General, Alfredo Bonet “noted that commodity price hikes might spur greater liberalization on biotech imports.”
It seems Wall Street traders got the word. By June 2008, food prices had spiked so severely that “The Economist announced that the real price of food had reached its highest level since 1845, the year the magazine first calculated the number,” reports Fred Kaufman in The Food Bubble: How Wall Street starved millions and got away with it.
The unprecedented high in food prices in 2008 caused an additional 250 million people to go hungry, pushing the global number to over a billion. 2008 is also the first year “since such statistics have been kept, that the proportion of the world’s population without enough to eat ratcheted upward,” said Kaufman.
All to boost acceptance of GM foods, and done via a trading scheme on which Wall Street speculators profited enormously. […]

Conclusion: The US is no doubt run by fascists.

Posted by: Juan Moment | Dec 17 2010 11:22 utc | 14

Good to see Assange out on bail, and I hear he’ll be staying for a while at a friends place called Ellingham Hall, happy days. But the man who we actually have to thank for, the real hero in this tragic comedy, is having a x-mas of a different kind.

The inhumane conditions of Bradley Manning’s detention
By Glenn Greenwald
Bradley Manning, the 22-year-old U.S. Army Private accused of leaking classified documents to WikiLeaks, has never been convicted of that crime, nor of any other crime. Despite that, he has been detained at the U.S. Marine brig in Quantico, Virginia for five months — and for two months before that in a military jail in Kuwait — under conditions that constitute cruel and inhumane treatment and, by the standards of many nations, even torture. Interviews with several people directly familiar with the conditions of Manning’s detention, ultimately including a Quantico brig official (Lt. Brian Villiard) who confirmed much of what they conveyed, establishes that the accused leaker is subjected to detention conditions likely to create long-term psychological injuries.
Since his arrest in May, Manning has been a model detainee, without any episodes of violence or disciplinary problems. He nonetheless was declared from the start to be a “Maximum Custody Detainee,” the highest and most repressive level of military detention, which then became the basis for the series of inhumane measures imposed on him.
From the beginning of his detention, Manning has been held in intensive solitary confinement. For 23 out of 24 hours every day — for seven straight months and counting — he sits completely alone in his cell. Even inside his cell, his activities are heavily restricted; he’s barred even from exercising and is under constant surveillance to enforce those restrictions. For reasons that appear completely punitive, he’s being denied many of the most basic attributes of civilized imprisonment, including even a pillow or sheets for his bed (he is not and never has been on suicide watch). For the one hour per day when he is freed from this isolation, he is barred from accessing any news or current events programs. Lt. Villiard protested that the conditions are not “like jail movies where someone gets thrown into the hole,” but confirmed that he is in solitary confinement, entirely alone in his cell except for the one hour per day he is taken out.
In sum, Manning has been subjected for many months without pause to inhumane, personality-erasing, soul-destroying, insanity-inducing conditions of isolation similar to those perfected at America’s Supermax prison in Florence, Colorado: all without so much as having been convicted of anything. And as is true of many prisoners subjected to warped treatment of this sort, the brig’s medical personnel now administer regular doses of anti-depressants to Manning to prevent his brain from snapping from the effects of this isolation. […]

Someone should seriously consider building Bradley a monument. If it weren’t for people of his conviction and stature, Wikileaks would be still in its infancy.

Posted by: Juan Moment | Dec 17 2010 11:47 utc | 15

Juan Moment #14,
That is a logical conclusion that Americans need to face.
To quote a preacher: If you can face it, God can fix it.

Posted by: Rick Happ | Dec 17 2010 12:54 utc | 16

On Bradley Manning, Assange, (all political prisoners?) further insight into the debilitating affects of solitary confinement
If GE is imagination at work then whose imagination is most important here

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 17 2010 13:50 utc | 17

I haven’t found anything as good as Gabriel’s “Biko” for Bradley Manning yet, but this will suffice for the time being.

Posted by: catlady | Dec 18 2010 3:22 utc | 18

Trying to put a positive spin on the Greenwald piece here. Another young amerikan convicted of espionage whom many Australians consider to be a hero, Christopher Boyce was paroled in 2003 even though he escaped just a few years into his sentence, staying on the run for 19 months & robbing 17 banks.
It was Boyce who whilst working for CIA communications contractor TRW, discovered several cables discussing the plan by the US et al to overthrow the elected government of Australia, which they did. Back in the early 70’s there was no internet and Boyce foolishly imagined that if he got the cables to the Russians they would expose the subversion by amerika of an ally.
His friend decided to make some money and sold the information to the russians, then got caught & gave up Boyce as well (nice fella).
At first I thought that Boyce got out early cause his dad was part of the intelligence community, but Boyce’s former partner had been paroled in the 90’s, and I doubt Boyce Snr would have greased those rails.
What does that mean? Maybe Manning will see the world again. Well maybe – but sentences appear to be much heavier now in this world of govts scaring the shit outta citizens so they can pretend their interdiction and imprisonments are keeping citizens safe.
It is worth noting that Lee & Boyce won parole after a lot of campaigning by people who cared inside and outside amerika.
There is a small trap created by the all too human act of comparing Manning’s situation with Assange’s. Both are now caught up in dramas outside of their control and there is nothing that the imperial forces would prefer than creating a schism between Manning & Assange or Manning’s supporters & Assange’s supporters.
As I understand it, the only hope the forces of darkness have of even getting an indictment against Assange out of the grand jury, much less a conviction in a courtroom is if they can prove Assange had direct personal involvement in the purloining of the information which they allege Manning ‘stole’ from the empire’s servers. If that is the case they will be drawing a bloody long bow to prove that his involvement which at worst, if even correct, was only a general morale boosting sort of “well done” form of encouragement, assisted in the acquisition of the data.
At the moment all they have is what Manning IRC’d to Adrian Lamo, which is likely to be considered hearsay unless the jury hears whatever was said, directly from Manning.
So the empire is pressuring Manning using torture such as rendition to Kuwait, solitary confinement and who knows what other nastiness, in the hope they can turn him against Assange and get him to testify against Assange, in return for a deal.
Hopefully Manning is getting advice which he also agrees with, that any testimony from him would serve to strengthen the rather weak case the empire has against Bradley Manning.
All they really have is the testimony of a convicted and self-confessed felon, who gave up Manning to endear himself to the empire. From the few excerpts of chat that wired ‘allowed’ us to see, there weren’t a lot of specifics about what Manning claimed to have got anyway. Maybe he was just a lonely gay man stuck in the desert with a bunch of don’t ask don’t tell drongos, and he lied to a famous hacker by pretending to be a hacker himself, so he had someone to talk to. . . If so it certainly wouldn’t be the first time someone has claimed to be a bandit in order to impress someone they admire.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Dec 18 2010 5:10 utc | 19

Accused soldier offered plea bargain if he names WikiLeaks founder

Posted by: ThePaper | Dec 18 2010 8:48 utc | 20

one thing to remember is that manning, if indeed it was him to send the cables to wikileaks, has committed treason. whether his intentions were noble or not is a different story. releasing information that will cause serious or grave damage to one’s nation is no small matter.
assange on the other hand does not have that problem and as far as I can tell has acted very responsibly in protecting those named in the secret documents. he and his organization have done what the free press should have done all along and are now reluctantly doing.
so, hold your sympathy for manning. I do not agree with the death penalty but am willing to consider it when it comes to traitors…the only thing that tempers that stand in manning’s case is that he apparently did not do it for monetary gain.

Posted by: dan of steele | Dec 18 2010 9:15 utc | 21

i have my doubts manning even exists.

Posted by: annie | Dec 18 2010 11:05 utc | 22

@DoS – manning, if indeed it was him to send the cables to wikileaks, has committed treason
Legally Manning has certainly has not committed treason.
US soldier charged over Apache Wikileaks video

The statement said the first charge against Manning, 22, is for violating army regulations by “transferring classified data onto his personal computer and adding unauthorised software to a classified computer system”.
He is accused in a second charge of “communicating, transmitting and delivering national defence information to an unauthorised source”.

There is also no “serious or grave damage” for the U.S. – that at least if you believe the Vice President and the Sec.Def.
Biden: no ‘substantive’ damage from Wikileaks
Gates on Leaks, Wiki and Otherwise

“Is this embarrassing? Yes. Is it awkward? Yes. Consequences for U.S. foreign policy? I think fairly modest.’’

This is indeed a minor offense and leaking secret stuff to journalists is what is done in Washington on a daily base.
How do we know that the recent NIE on Afghanistan is pessimistic? Well, it was leaked by “officials” to the NYT and the LAT. It is still not declassified. So whoever leaked that has committed treason? Anyone screaming for those peoples head?

Posted by: b | Dec 18 2010 11:24 utc | 23

b,
what I am referring to is what Secret and Top Secret mean as defined by the USG. see wikipedia for definitions.
whether other people say the information released is damaging or not, what manning saw was either a S, TS, or C on the documents he released. He knew what that meant and gave them away anyway. this is at the very least a huge betrayal of trust and at worst treason. Leave aside the moral righteousness of his action.
I see how people howl about Jonathan Pollard, whom I think should be drawn and quartered, and find sympathy for Manning. they are comparable even though pollard did it for the money and sold far more damaging information.
manning could have done this better and gave himself away. no one ever needed to know as the onion routers available to upload to wikileaks are virtually untraceable. with all the people who had access to those cables it would have taken a very long time to find him and then there was no proof, only his confession could out him. it seems as though he sees himself as some kind of folk hero, albeit a foolish one who will spend a lot of time behind bars.
as for others leaking information, if those people decide to unclassify something, that is what happens. they have the power to make those decisions. I may not agree with that either but that is the way it is done. who should decide when something is no longer classified? elected officials responsible for the subject or someone who does not have access to all the information available and is unable to make an informed decision?
manning is toast, we need to focus on assange. he is the one who will be punished for doing the right thing.

Posted by: dan of steele | Dec 18 2010 12:47 utc | 24

Is it treason to do what Manning did when the government he was employed by was (and is) operating illegally? Can a criminal commit a crime against another criminal? Or vise versa?
I’m surprised by both debs and dan’s comments… hasn’t the american empire been operating illegally since we invaded Iraq? Isn’t that enough reason to stop living by the warmonger’s rules? Technically, Manning may be guilty of treason, but I believe his intentions weren’t to harm America… I think he wanted to help wake his fellow countrymen up to the lies they’re being told. Is that treason? Pollard; treason, cut and dried, but Manning?
Personally (since I’m not in government) I can’t even understand why we have ‘state secrets’? How does such a policy keep up safer? Mostly state secrets seem to be all the illegal and immoral activities engaged in by the government, and such actions would be much more difficult to hide if the public were allowed to know what was being done with their tax moneys, and in their name. And for what ends are such cloak and dagger secrets utilized? Usually just to enrich the already rich corporations who are really running (ruining) America…
Sometimes I feel like a guest at a mob wedding living in the U.S.A.. Oodles of flowers, happy smiling guest, but somewhere down in the basement one of the ‘guest’ is being slowly murdered by the bridegroom who slips down between dances telling his bride he has to make a ‘business call. Know what I mean? State secrets are creepy, and anyone who has looked at them can see the PTB only worry about keeping the stuff that embarrasses them out of the public’s view. At the moment most of the secret material is only secret from the public… our politicians don’t care what the enemy knows, because there are no enemies. Everyone in power is working for the same boss: Greed.
They create illusionary enemies to steal their constituents freedoms and money… laughing together at the big think tank parties over how easily they again pulled the wool over the sheep’s eyes. Fuckers.
Sigh,
Peace

Posted by: DaveS | Dec 18 2010 13:47 utc | 25

Dave S, your comments echo my thoughts. I too am surprised by what I am reading, specifically the comments by dos. Most of the time I agree with dos’ comments but here with regard to freedom of speech and Manning I must disagree.
Is life so not precious that dos might consider the death penalty for treason here?
Treason:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.
First off, anyone held in the U.S. justice system should be presumed innocent until proven guilty by an open trial. Why the solitary confinement and coercion of Manning to help convict Assange?
Second, our U.S. Federal Justice system and the U.S. Intelligence agencies, especially the Dept. of Homeland Security, are out of control. Probably no need to elaborate here.
Third, just because documents are officially labeled as secret, the real crime is labeling a document secret just to cover up embarrassing situations or to MISLEAD the public.
We have been fighting in Afghanistan for nearly 10 years – maybe America’s longest war. In a more general sense, who exactly is the U.S. at war with? I haven’t figured that out yet. The U.S. Congress has the sole authority to declare war. Who, what group, or what nation state, have they declared war against?

Posted by: Rick Happ | Dec 18 2010 15:06 utc | 26

Wikileaks removed six Tel Aviv cables yesterday. No new Tel Aviv cable has been released in ten days and it’s a bit surprising that they need to censor names so long after the first release.
It’s a also bit stupid/pointless as the already censored cables are already wide spread (in the privet bank page pass the cursor over the cable name and click on cablesearch on the pop-up window that appears to read them) and have been already read by most people who cares. I reread a couple of them and are high level contacts between US and Israeli officials (just as I remembered). Highly unlikely you would still need to remove names for ‘protection’ in the unlikely case there was a name to protect (high level officials of two western countries need protection from what?).
07TELAVIV2652 09TELAVIV1184 09TELAVIV1688 09TELAVIV2482 09TELAVIV2500 09TELAVIV936
Source: Privet Bank
Also no new release since two days ago.

Posted by: ThePaper | Dec 18 2010 15:44 utc | 27

if manning is eventually executed for treason, well, then i think people like Jane Harman and Karl Rove and a whole host of others should be tried and, if found guilty, executed as well, and if the USG refuses to exert justice on these treasonous individuals, maybe justice should be taken up by forces outside the USG.

Posted by: lizard | Dec 18 2010 16:13 utc | 28

The US State Dep and Pentagon are responsible for countless thousands of unnecessary deaths, every year. With 261 millionaires in Congress, any more or less interested observer had a fair idea anyway of the dark philosophy eminent amongst the inbred US gov circles and the military tools used to impose their imperial wet dreams. For someone to one day copy their cards and lay them on the table for us to see was only a matter of time.
Manning might technically be guilty of treason, just as much as the Crazy Horse 18 chopper crew indiscriminately slaughtering unarmed civilians in Baghdad is technically guilty of war crimes.
By getting the video of this collateral murder out in the open, Manning, a young guy barely out of his teens, in my mind showed enormous courage, following Jefferson’s idea of “When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.” I applaud and support any efforts designed to help him and wish him all the strength needed to pull through.

Leave aside the moral righteousness of his action.

Why? Leaving moral righteousness aside, Sophie Scholl was also guilty of high treason. In a case like this, where the whistle blower’s action has unearthed the grubby and sometimes downright disgusting actions and intentions of the US gov, he has done the USA a massive service. The US public ought to be congratulating the soldier for his bravery, analyse the information released, take stock and then kick out that gang of morally bankrupt fat cats running the racket.

Posted by: Juan Moment | Dec 18 2010 16:25 utc | 29

rick I am sorry to seem so callous about this but anyone who has held a security clearance knows the importance of not giving away secrets. it is the same for industry as it is for the military and government. if you have a trade secret and your fortune is based on that, you would be mighty pissed if someone you trusted to keep that secret went and blabbed it to your competitors. that is in essence what state secrets are about as well. our betters are competing with the betters of other lands and need to keep certain things close hold. so, a system of classification was developed and the guidelines are those in the wiki article I linked to before. people who classify data try to do the right thing but there are always those who are lazy and overclassify and the worst thing is of course to under classify as you can get into serious trouble for that whereas nothing will happen if you err on the side of caution and classify even if you are not sure.
and yes human life is precious and the more human lives that are stake the more precious they become. if a traitor sells information to my enemy that will then result in the deaths of tens, hundreds, thousands of my fellow citizens then I am pissed. I can think of nothing more vile than someone who sells out his fellow citizens for a handful of cash and a hooker or two.
but I do agree with all of you that Assange is doing a great thing exposing the duplicity and dishonesty that is so rampant everywhere. and a real democracy is not afraid of the truth. sadly I don’t think we have much of a democracy anymore and the best we can hope for is for a respect for law. That is being flaunted and shat upon by way too many rich and powerful but once the common folk take the law into their own hands, then we have some serious trouble and I doubt that anyone wants to see that.
the system is as it is, it will take time to fix it and above all the desire to do so. so far, from what I see most people really don’t give a shit so long as they have their big flat screen teevee and a regular dose of mind numbing entertainment. how else can you possibly explain putting the republicans back in power after they had bankrupted the country? what thinking person could have done that? of course the democrats are no better but there are other choices such as third party.
please, I am not a war monger and defender of the status quo. I really don’t like what is happening but do not yet see any way out. I am afraid it will have to run its course and get really really bad before it gets better.

Posted by: dan of steele | Dec 18 2010 17:14 utc | 30

but I do agree with all of you that Assange is doing a great thing exposing the duplicity and dishonesty that is so rampant everywhere. and a real democracy is not afraid of the truth. sadly I don’t think we have much of a democracy anymore and the best we can hope for is for a respect for law. That is being flaunted and shat upon by way too many rich and powerful but once the common folk take the law into their own hands, then we have some serious trouble and I doubt that anyone wants to see that.

dan, i find your thinking here troubling. when have those with wealth and power ever refrained from flaunting their abilities to remain above laws used to keep the screws turning against the poor and disempowered? are you, dan, as afraid of the lowly common folks rising up as the wealthy are?
what about soldiers?
with the recent protests and arrests of veterans who are courageously standing up against being cannon fodder to expand empire and enrich corporations, there is a chance, with vets taking the forefront of resistance, that broader coalitions against insane US foreign policy could again begin to gain the kind of momentum we saw against globalization that culminated in late November, 1999, in Seattle.
in the past two years at the local blog, i have gone from an annoying cynical commenter pointing out all the failures of Obama to local progressive dems, to a featured contributor with a perspective that can no longer be comfortably dismissed. and now with wikileaks providing even more proof of what many of us here already know, i am witnessing once ardent dem supporters finally beginning to come to terms with how broken our political system has become. the ground is fertile for a third path to once again try to rattle the two party plutocratic cage.
if vengeance demands blood for Manning’s alleged treason, then they’ll get blood, but it won’t stop with Manning. i think there is a boiling insurrection within our military infrastructure waiting for some catalyst to vent the exhaustion of a decade of warfare. if the right event of personality comes along, watch out. it won’t just be prisoners in Georgia and students in Berkley and Santa Cruz organizing; it could be all kinds of well-trained veterans joining forces with us common folk in realizing that, collectively, we have the power to scare the tippy-top to stop their lustful power-grab for full spectrum dominance.

Posted by: lizard | Dec 18 2010 19:06 utc | 31

Wikileaks published new cables for Dec 16, 17 and 18. The usual bunch from Madrid, Havana, a few about the Honduras coup, a bunch from New Delhi, one from Jerusalem (with the Palestine Authority from 2006 on Gaza crossing arrangements) and other miscellaneous stuff related with the last days media releases.
Four of the removed Tel Aviv cables were restored:
09TELAVIV1184 09TELAVIV2482 09TELAVIV2500 09TELAVIV936
I performed a diff with a previous version and there is no change on the cable content. All the changes are on the surrounding html (webpage framework, links to the different sort categories: embassies, tags).
So it seems like some (most?) of the temporary removals may be related with the process of adding new cables and updating the webpage framework. A bit odd but not worth a conspiracy theory.

Posted by: ThePaper | Dec 18 2010 21:39 utc | 32

I had prepared a more lengthy response to Lizard and lost it because I got sidetracked with something else. the main point of my reply was to suggest that waiting for the masses to rise up is futile and any insurrection will be dealt with harshly. I had just read some american history starting with the 1930s and was shocked to read about the bonus marchers. Douglas McArthur was the man in charge of routing these down and outers from DC and did so with great gusto. The senate had overruled the house on payment of the bonuses….no surprise there, same as it ever was. I read that the young troops on active duty took great pleasure in bashing in the heads of decorated war veterans who had fought in WW1. don’t think it would happen today? think again.
as for dissention in the ranks, I don’t see it. and I am around folks who are living through deployments. not that many people are dying anymore so it is a bit of an annoyance for most and great fun for those who get off on killing. plus the money is good. go away for 6 months or so and you can make a good sized payment on a new car.
we may think we are brave and proud but it is my experience that when the tough gets going, you will find yourself all alone…just like Cpl Manning. He is being harshly punished because he broke the law and embarrassed a lot of people. I suspect the embarrassment is what stings the most and that is why he is in solitary confinement.
I suspect there may be a lot of tough talk up there in Montana. certainly you all have a bit of history with being proud and freedom loving. it did not end well for Weaver on Ruby Ridge and I am pretty sure that is what will happen the next time it is tried as well. Hell, Reno burned all those people to death at Waco and everyone cheered. This is Rome at the end of the empire, when we elect Sarah Palin as president (and that is a very strong possiblity) we will be that much closer to the collapse. We have a plutocracy of the worst kind coupled with some very effective opinion control that has the masses cheering and protected the very beings who will rob us of our last penny and then throw us to the dogs for sport.
no, I am not very optimistic.

Posted by: dan of steele | Dec 18 2010 22:16 utc | 33

Firstly @ThePaper, you certainly seem to be a person who has a good grasp on what happens in the world so may I suggest you refrain from reading privet bank’s distortions. The cables you mention are still available on many WikiLeaks sites including the most recent release dated 18th December. Although it is the 19th where I live just west of the dateline, as I write this, I am sure the bulk of the world is still enjoying the 18th.
I do not know privet bank & therefore have no more insight into motivations for this continuous blackening of Assange by him but I suspect it is that he/she has a little professional envy, commonly held by some of those who tried and failed against those who tried and succeeded. I rambled on about it in another WikiLeaks thread.
In short there are so many sites some actual ‘mirrors’ and others maybe not. Different newspapers are putting out different cables and the reality that the archive situation has slipped quite out of control during Assange’s incarceration, seems to me to be more likely due to chaos than conspiracy. After all the TelAVIV cables are still available despite privet bank’s bullshit.
However there is no doubt that a new strategy is being employed by the empire in conjunction with some elements of the media. Just as Assange has all copies of the cables, so it appears do some media outlets.
Now we don’t know the exact details of the arrangement but it seems that Assange may have foolishly agreed not to publish cables at WikiLeaks which hadn’t been released according to some prior agreement of a timetable.
Maybe that deal is binding both ways but if it is someone in the media is definitely breaking the agreement. I wrote earlier in the week about how one of the Sunday Newspapers here (A Fairfax paper meaningless label outside Australia, but inside Australia Fairfax has always been regarded as far worse than Murdoch in its willingness to perjure, blackmail and conspire with extreme conservative elements most NZers are unaware of this history or even that since the early 90’s Fairfax have acquired the bulk of NZ’s print media, along with the busiest website in NZ) published a chunk of cables about NZ that hadn’t been included in any of the 5 outlets’ bundles, or on any of the Wikileaks archives. The journo who obtained the cables has a somewhat chequered career, of leaking embarrassing security intelligence.
Now today the Sunday Herald (Sunday edition of The New Zealand Herald, a sister of the english Independent, both owned by 35% Aeroflot stockholder & russian oligarch Alexander Lebedev ) has published all of the cables which refer to NZ, some 250,000 words they claim. I have been extremely busy grabbing them all; they weren’t available in an archive and were only thrown up as an html page. If that process follows that of the Sunday Star Times last week we know that by mid Monday all the links and the pages will have disappeared. So I vacuumed them all up.
These cables may not even have come from WikiLeaks after all the empire knows exactly which cables that WikiLeaks has and may have decided to pre-empt the WikiLeaks release by pushing them all out at once with spin by a friendly media accomplice making light of the content. Check out the cable in the list above (sorry limit on links) called ‘WikiLeaks cable: No quick fix for pharmaceutical market’ which although it is spun differently is basically an open admission by the amerikan embassy that it has conspired with big pharma to turn citizens against PHARMAC the state owned drug purchasing authority which decides whether to fund drugs on the basis of independent cost benefit analysis by physicians.
Those expensive drugs which claim to give terminal cancer patients an extra week or month for a mere $100,000 didn’t get a look in until pharmac was pressured by a well organised campaign which mobilised citizens.
It has been alleged a number of patients were given free or reduced rate access to the expensive treatment in return for their support.
A big deal here just another day in the empire everywhere else But that is just one of many cables that show the empire’s meddling in our nation.
The media outlets can now regard everything about WL cables and NZ as ‘old news’ even if the cables are unavailable on the Herald site after tomorrow.
Maybe other Sunday papers about the globe will have their nations’ cables, or maybe as with so many things and I think the ambassador mentions this in the Pharmac cable, NZ’s small size allegedly western orientation and distance from other nations has made it an ideal testing ground, once again.
Don’t be tricked into accepting this is all just one huge action against the citizens from beginning to end. What we are witnessing is an information battle and much of the information used may not come from the source it claims to be from.
It is time to remember what some commentator (Greenwald?) said at the start of this, which I have paraphrased as :< I> “don’t be making the error of criticising Wikileaks for not being perfect. Let’s celebrate the Wikileaks we have and not the one we would like to have in a perfect world.”

Posted by: Debs is dead | Dec 18 2010 23:22 utc | 34

Here is the link to the Pharmac cable I mentioned above.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Dec 18 2010 23:24 utc | 35

@the Paper sorry I just noticed your later post. As I said Privet Bank seems to have an agenda.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Dec 18 2010 23:25 utc | 36

One more thing best put in another topic I’m not quite sure what I wrote that surprised DaveS. I have a lot of respect for Badley Manning, and if I attributed any human qualities to him they were born out of that respect. Other than that I don’t see how reporting on my belief of the most likely outcome for him will be can be in any way surprising. Of course it would be great if he were released, but who really thinks that will happen? If he can get out after 20 years that would be bad but not as bad as either jail for life or a lethal injection, so I consider it as the best, possible, option.
As for insurrection, that won’t happen until enough people get massively shat upon & don’t have enough to feed cloth and house their families. At the moment those people are an easily indentifiable, & easily (for assholes) disparaged mob. Later when the rich become as complacent about us as we did about them (20 years or so ago) they will ‘forget’ that you can’t shit on too many at once as they always do, THEN the people will strike, but I am no longer hopeful that will be in my lifetime.
I had started writing a piece about that in response to another comment in another thread when the WL issue got me again.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Dec 18 2010 23:36 utc | 37

i’m not very optimistic either, dan, but i’m also not an aging ex-pat making my comments from across the pond.
i also have no doubt i’m playing up something (dissent in the ranks) that might not exist in the numbers that would effect change, but i work with vets every day at the shelter, and they tend to be pretty critical and cynical about the people making the decisions with soldiers lives. and now we’re starting to see some of the younger vets on the streets.
it’s a fact there are huge numbers of wounded coming home. because of injuries, many won’t or can’t work, and will receive compensation. they will have a lot of free time to join up resistance groups if that is their inclination. and when soldiers protest, they can’t be derided by the media the way lefty peaceniks can.
personally, i’m going to latch on to any glimmer of resistance i can find, and try to amplify it. lot’s of folks seem like they’re just giving up. fuck that. as things get worse, the dominant narrative flickers like the hologram it is. when it blinks out, folks like me have the opportunity to fill the void with our alternative understanding of how we have gotten to this point in our country’s brief history. i’m going to take every opportunity to do just that. and, as i’ve said, in the past two years at the little virtual backwater i’ve been drinking at, i have had some small successes in arguing my points of view. it might not amount to much, but it sure as hell is better than doing nothing.

Posted by: lizard | Dec 18 2010 23:50 utc | 38

As for insurrection, that won’t happen until enough people get massively shat upon & don’t have enough to feed cloth and house their families.
That will never come about in todays world, while they spend billions on Social Engineering, keeping the masses fighting amongst themselves is a relatively low cost benefit analysis. And the least of their expenditure.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 19 2010 0:22 utc | 39

Addendum:
‘Martial law’ imposed during summit: Ombudsman
G20 Toronto- Police surround and attack small group of protesters at Queen and Spadina.flv
Nice snatch and grab at the end…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 19 2010 0:56 utc | 40

lizard please don’t mistake ‘keeping alive the flame’ with giving up. I fully intend to keep on agitating about those things around me which I consider to be wrong/unjust, but I also intend to be practical and consider the longer arc of history, because living off the sustenance of change being “just around the corner”, has a major problem. If that change doesn’t come, it eventually becomes difficult to sustain the energy required to agitate. Many such people do surrender.
The cost of social engineering may seem minimal to you Uncle, and there was a time when I agreed. For example when my job was working with people who, for one reason or another, didn’t have any paid employment, I firmly believed that the elites recognised that paying out some sort of minimal income support to people without an income would be the least expensive way of dealing with those people. I still believe that to be true, though the elites do not.
Otherwise a sizeable chunk of those in need, will help themselves and then society incurs the cost; eg every dollar a thief may get for his/her work costs approx 8 dollars. Hot items sell for substantially less than they are ‘worth’ and considerable collateral damage occurs during a theft/burlary.
That is no longer the case (that the elites consider the cost affordable) – as you have seen in amerika and now europe, the welfare system is being dismantled.
The rich have decided that most of the cost of crimes committed by the poor are actually born by the slightly less poor, & so are now agitating to get rid of welfare payments entirely.
National indebtedness is used as the excuse but of course that is only a facade.
For example:
Somewhere in the swathe of NZ cables is one highly critical of the last Prime Minister Helen Clark. It damns with faint praise when it criticises Helen for “having a Presbyterian outlook borne of a frugal upbringing, which has led her to believe that the budget should always be balanced”.
During the entire term of the Clark Labour government (10 years) the govt always ran a surplus. That became an issue during the last election with the conservattives insisting NZers were being ripped off and should get a tax cut.
The mugs fell for it, and elected Key & co whereupon huge tax cuts were given to the rich; and tiny, (average $6 per week) given to ordinary citizens.
The government then began borrowing at 240 million a week to fund the cuts. There were also increases in consumption tax (those always hit the lower income earners worse) and cuts in education, health and welfare expenditure. Some of us shouted “OI! yer being sucked in here” &were ignored & now we get this from the tory treasurer

The amount the Government has to borrow each week has jumped from $250 million a week to $300 million a week, to cover the blowout in the cash deficit to $15.6 billion.

He goes on to make excuses about earthquakes, that it will end soon and such but that will change too just as the undertaking that the $240 mill a week didn’t matter, which they made at the time of the cuts has changed.
By this time next year, NZ’s indebtedness will be used as an excuse to slash and burn exactly as it has been used in Greece, Ireland, England & France. The reality – that it was calculated indebtedness which could easily have been avoided, will be ignored.
For me this has meant a major change in my life. I have mentioned before about having a child that is disabled. I bought the home where we are currently living, precisely because I wanted to make sure my son would always have somewhere to live, away from urban chaos, so that whatever happened in the future, he would have a domicile.
Of course I have made it plain to my daughter that the house is for her too, should she need it. She is out there in the world slogging at the books, hoping to get a decent degree, so in her words “She doesn’t have to rely on any bloke, including her father, for any thing”.
The home plan was predicated on my son always having some sort of income even if there were times when his disability prevented him from getting paid employment.
Of course I hope to leave this joint with more than a pile of bills for my kids, but I had always considered our society to be one where people looked after each other should “The best laid schemes o’ Mice an’ Men,
Gang aft agley,”

This current mob of assholes have been having a “Welfare Review” which annoys me considerably not least because we never used to call our society’s insistence that no member be destitute “welfare”. . . . until quite recently. Like liberal and charity, the definition of the term ‘welfare’ has been turned around to invoke the negative concepts which once only the amerikan culture laid upon it.
The review has recommended that citizens only be able to access income support for 30 months of their entire working life.
I have always done whatever needed to be done to keep body and soul and family together, without being parasitical or mercenary, but now I find I cannot sacrifice my sons’ future to his father’s principles and have embarked on a late life foray into capitalism.
I dunno how this is going to go, as previous attempts (a very long time ago) foundered on a refusal to be completely 100% prepared to do anything to get going and stay afloat.
My observations over the years have led me to believe that the early stages of any capitalist enterprise do require a certain, shall we say; ‘callous indifference to the fortunes of some other citizens’.
And before anyone says it. Yes I do know by signing up to capitalism, even this late in my life, I am in a sense doing exactly what those who conceived this strategy want me to do.
I am quite prepared to sacrifice myself on my ideals, and have done so in the past, but I defy most people to do the same when it is their child whose life is being sacrificed for their principles.
Somehow I have to accumulate enough in the next 10 years to support the young fella for the next 50 years.
I am not particularly optimistic about my success, but I know I must try, and also, that confidence will play a major role in any success.
Hopefully I will find some interesting paradoxes during this episode of ‘Did, the entrepreneur’. Ones that can amuse fellow travellers. Goodness knows I have found any number of ironies already, altho most are too minor to provide more than brief amusement.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Dec 19 2010 3:04 utc | 41

I don’t think Privet Bank has more of an agenda than WikiLeaks and even if any of them have such thing I just use the available information and make my own judgments. Like with all other sources of information.
As far as I see they are basically taking torrents (or magnet links) from the source, downloading the new cableleaks mirror archive and using a script or something to perform a comparison against the previous version.
The cables were actually removed from the site and the mirror archive (I checked). You can download the torrent for that day and they are gone and the three still missing are not in the site. Why? Well it’s seems for no good or bad reason that we know or can prove as my little experiment demonstrated. In fact I could have checked Privet Bank automatic diffs and got the same result so they don’t seem to be lying either.
It may be fun to see hidden intentions and conspiracies everywhere but that doesn’t means they exists or that you get any more value out of basing your vision of the world on them existing. For most topics I don’t and won’t know but I want to know about all the possibilities.
About Manning and treason I have way too much contempt for the elites and their selective and favorable application of ‘law’ to even bother discussing if he deserves punishment or not. You won’t see anyone in the jail for ‘leaking’ ‘confidential’ or ‘secret’ true or false information pushing the government or elite agenda (see all the run up to the Iraq war).
About changes, revolutions and such they will happen eventually as no system stays unchanged for ever. Another matter is what comes out of the change. The western population is starting to feel some pain but most still has more to lose than to win and people may act out of principles only if the cost seems low. Say for example if they see a clear way out the mess just by voting someone or holding protests. Or until they see a lot of more people acting like they want.
Still discussing about how the world works and alternatives has value. Promoting change even if it can’t be achieved has also a value, offers options to people who may not know about them. The world changes quite fast lately (or so they say) and I’m not known by my optimism so my guess is it may get worse rather than better but I don’t know for sure and that won’t prevent me from discussing or defending what I thing is right, with the proper balance given a self-preservation desire (I doubt I would be able to stand at the position Assange seem to be for example).

Posted by: ThePaper | Dec 19 2010 8:42 utc | 42

Debs, I am moved by your narrative about your son and your own ‘decent’ into capitalism. And I just wanted to share that with you. I can’t help but feel and think that putting your progeny ahead of your own interests and ideals is paramount to being fully human. There are dilemmas that we face throughout life that defy our cognitive capabilities and create paradoxes insoluble. I have come to believe that this is an integral part of our material lives and part of it’s mysteries. I draw spiritual sustenance from the sage’s pronouncement that “life is not a problem to be solved but a mystery to be lived.” I could pour out my own dilemmas to you but I’d rather just absorb yours into my psyche and know that we share equally in our attempts to deal with their manifestations in our individual but somehow interconnected lives. I am richer for your sharing. Thank you.

Posted by: juannie | Dec 19 2010 10:42 utc | 43

to put it simply regarding Manning and the law, George Carlin said it very succinctly when he stated “there is a club and you aint in it”
of course people with cover will leak secrets, they also leak complete lies and fabrications. it is what they do to accomplish their agenda. there are different rules for those people and no amount of hand wringing and righteous indignation will change that. it is the golden rule, those with the gold make the rules.
that is why I believe we must be a nation of laws and not a nation of men. corporate media has been very successful in making all things about individuals. for example Obama now and GW Bush before him, as if either of those men could have acted any differently from how they did or do. Why does Obama have to make all those visits to the Council for Foreign Relations, AIPAC, and now a small group of industrial tycoons? If he is in charge they would find out about his decisions the same time the rest of us would. It is easier for all of us fox news viewers to boo or cheer for a single human than to see the real power in this country. So, I believe we must fight for good laws and then insist that they be enforced. That takes a lot of time and effort and there is no reward for any single person and that makes it so much harder to pass. everyone is selfish in that regard so why bother fighting for something that will not help you except in an ideological way?
btw, the aging remark was kind of a low blow lizard. the ex-pat part is correct though I must tell you that I work with US citizens every day and they are from everywhere in the US…not just Montana or ND and I think I may have a better view than you do. they are from mostly lower class though the officers are also from middle class. most are bewildered and chant the whatever is written on Fox News’ barn wall. they are all carrying a lot of debt and are not even concerned with it.

Posted by: dan of steele | Dec 19 2010 11:06 utc | 44

sorry dan if you think the aging remark was a low blow, but your seemingly disdain for “the common folk” and implying that this is just some “tough talk from Montana” got me a little miffed, and i responded in kind.
Debs: i wasn’t implying you are giving up. we all are going to do what we have to do. for me i guess that means remaining a bit delusional in my hope that some form of resistance is still possible in the states, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Posted by: lizard | Dec 19 2010 14:07 utc | 45

I believe we must be a nation of laws and not a nation of men.

Agreed. The US is however not a nation of laws, otherwise the last god knows how many US Presidents would be in jail. When the law affords impunity to people in power, or in uniforms following the master’s order, and lets them get away with nearly anything, from cold blooded murder to food price manipulation, you name it, then it takes men of Manning’s caliber to say screw the law, it isn’t any good.
A cable speaks a thousand words, 3 minutes of footage taken from a US attack helicopter in action says more than what can be said. When I try to put myself in Manning’s position, having just come across this material, stunned by the contemptuous attitude with which US chopper crews and diplomats regard human suffering, what would I have done? Would I have had the guts to download the documents and videos and forward them to a site like Wikileaks? He probably knew deep down that taking action will spell doom for his personal future, because it is against the law, the same law that allows for this murdering to go unpunished.

Posted by: Juan Moment | Dec 20 2010 6:21 utc | 46

Debs, you didn’t actually mention what type of capitalist venture you are embarking on, if you simply bought shares, started a small business or are growing some wacky baccy. Don’t give yourself a hard time for trying to make some money. As my economy teacher used to say, money in itself is neither good nor bad, it’s what is being done with it, or in many cases not done, that matters. And building up a survival fund for your son sounds like a decent cause to me.

Posted by: Juan Moment | Dec 20 2010 11:22 utc | 47