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Another Iran Election Thread
These have been so far intersting discussions. Let's continue them.
Here is a transcript of Khamenei's speech today, though I am unsure if line 177 is really the exact translation.
Three main points he made:
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He alleges outer (media-)interference.
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He criticizes Ahmadinejad a bit and highly lauds Rafsanjani as a pillar of the revolution.
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He insist that the candidates follow the legal way and stop illegal activities.
I interpret that as an offer to Rafsanjani and a warning to Mousavi. Look for a compromise solution but within the existing system and rules. The ball is now back in the Mousavi/Rafsanjani camp. If they decide of further street confrontation it might well get very bloody.
The best I can tink of now is to really follow the legal procedures but to do so very publicly and openly. Only when most people agree on the facts and realities can further strife be avoided.
Debs: “Unless humans can suspend judgement and support a comrade regardless, they end up stuck with the same assholes wreaking the same havoc on the world. Because sowing the seeds of dissension is an oldie but a goodie.”
Like Debs, Friday night gives me a little time to comment also. First off, I hope no one here supports a comrade’s position if he/she believe it to be untrue. Of course, defending against personal insults is another matter.
I wish to thank b for being such a gracious host, but more importantly, I wish to thank him for presenting us, as usual, with a different point of view than that which we find in the major media outlets, whether liberal or conservative, left or right. And I agree with b, rgiap, annie et al. Not because I consider them to be my friends, although I do, but because they make sense. Heaven knows I will argue to the point of being insulting, as I have in the past with each of these friends, so anyone here can be certain I speak what I believe to be true or in this case, highly possible, regardless of defending a friend or fighting an enemy. And for those who desire this “revolution”, all I can say is they should be careful what they wish for. I repeat here what rgiap said in a most recent post:
sadly, it is a win win for imperialism – if there is a delegitimised state under ahmedinejad – all the better for the preparations for war at a future date, if it all collapses in the streets & it falls apart – you can be sure imperialism in all its horrible forms will penetrate further in iran like a rat up a drainpipe – a weak iran is exactly what they want to confront the consolidation of its power in the larger middle east – in iraq, lebanon & the occupied territories
if there is blood in the streets of iran tomorrow or in the immediate future – there will be much celebration in the dining rooms of washington, tel aviv, & london because blood on the streets will not only signal the failure of the iranian state but it will indicate the success of the imperialist usurpers
Those who have read my previous posts on other threads also know that I try to be pro-American where possible, though such a position has always been difficult and becomes harder and harder with each passing day. My personal life and upbringing could not be more different than rgiap’s, annie’s or even b’s. Yet, I usually agree with them even though I approach things from the right-political perspective, and they from the left. It only takes an arsonist with a few matches to start a fire that becomes out of control. In a not totally dissimilar manner, I am sure that an even greater effort for disruption has been made by U.S./U.K./Israel interests in Iran.
In that respect, it is interesting that U.S. Congress person Ron Paul was the lone dissenter on the U.S. vote today:
Statement of Congressman Ron Paul
United States House of Representatives
Statement Opposing Resolution on Iran
June 19, 2009
Ron Paul: I rise in reluctant opposition to H Res 560, which condemns the Iranian government for its recent actions during the unrest in that country. While I never condone violence, much less the violence that governments are only too willing to mete out to their own citizens, I am always very cautious about “condemning” the actions of governments overseas. As an elected member of the United States House of Representatives, I have always questioned our constitutional authority to sit in judgment of the actions of foreign governments of which we are not representatives. I have always hesitated when my colleagues rush to pronounce final judgment on events thousands of miles away about which we know very little. And we know very little beyond limited press reports about what is happening in Iran.
Of course I do not support attempts by foreign governments to suppress the democratic aspirations of their people, but when is the last time we condemned Saudi Arabia or Egypt or the many other countries where unlike in Iran there is no opportunity to exercise any substantial vote on political leadership? It seems our criticism is selective and applied when there are political points to be made. I have admired President Obama’s cautious approach to the situation in Iran and I would have preferred that we in the House had acted similarly.
Posted by: Rick | Jun 20 2009 2:54 utc | 56
@DoS – or do the losers merely want to keep voting until they win?
I assume that is the plan.
@jbc – Also, each ballot should have a serial number.
I am not aware of any election where ballots have a serial number and for obvious reasons I would not vote in an election where that is the case.
How the Iranian elections are done: Iran’s Presidential Election Day Primer
The polling stations will be open Friday, June 12, from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. The Interior Minister Sadeq Mahsouli announced, however, that if the polling stations are busy, the hours allocated to vote could be extended. There are 45,713 voting centers, including 3,200 in Tehran and vicinity alone. There are an additional 162 polling stations for Iranians living outside the country, including 32 in the United States.
Every polling station will have at least six people administering the election including a chief, a deputy, three secretaries and a member assigned by the governor. These administrators will ensure voters are eligible to vote and that election procedures are followed. To cast a ballot, voters must be over 18 years of age, be mentally sane and provide national identification cards that certify the voter is an Iranian citizen. Once the voter’s ballot is cast and sealed, the election administration stamps the voter’s identity card to eliminate the possibility of voting twice.
The elections will be monitored by the Central Supervisory Committee, established by the Guardian Council and made up of two members of the Guardian Council and five individuals chosen by consensus by the council. They will monitor their local supervisory boards appointed at the local district level. The Guardian Council, in addition to monitoring the election, reviews candidate nominations and approves the final slate of candidates.
The candidates can personally or collectively introduce supervising representative(s) at the polling stations. Candidate representatives can be present at all polling stations for the balloting, counting and transfer process. Those monitors can report any violations to the Supervisory Committee in writing.
The Judiciary also gave Iran’s General Inspection Organization, a government oversight body, the authorization to observe the election, despite opposition by incumbent Ahmadinejad.
Once a polling station is closed, the counting process begins. Polling station officials first count the ballot stubs, followed by the ballots. Ballots will be considered null and void with the verification of the local district Supervisory Board if the ballot is illegible, contains names other than the approved candidates, lacks election seals or is a nonstandard ballot. If the number of stubs and ballots are equal, then the actual vote count begins. If there are more votes than ballots, then the difference is randomly selected from the ballot box and the votes cancelled, then the ballots are counted. In cases where there are more stubs than ballots, the discrepancy is reported and the votes are counted.
Once the votes are counted and results tallied, the official results are certified, and all ballots are returned to the ballot box, which is then sealed and officially transferred to the Executive Committee. Results will be announced within 24 hours.
Think of it 45,000 polling stations with 6 officials each – how come nor witness of voting fraud came from these? Also the number explains a relative fast count. 1,000 votes per station is easy to count and recount with 6 people.
A Primer on Iran’s Presidential Election System
Voting in Iran
In Iran, there is no voter registration or roll. Iranians can vote anywhere as long as they present their national identification book, or Shenasnameh. The system is set up to prevent fraud at a number of levels, starting with voting procedures.
Iran has a two-part ballot – the ballot itself and a stub portion. When a voter enters the polling station, there is a check of their shenasnameh for authenticity to ensure the voter is eligible to vote (the voting age in Iran is 16) and that the voter has not already voted in the election. For every election in Iran, there is a unique ink stamp which is stamped into a voter’s shenasnameh. This latter check is based on an examination of the shenasnameh to ensure there is not already a stamp from the current election in the booklet.
The voter’s information, consisting of basic biographical data, is then entered onto the stub portion of the ballot. It is important to note that the stub, once detached from the ballot, cannot be matched to the ballot. There are no serial numbers or any other markings that tie the two parts together. Thus, it is realistically impossible to know for whom a voter cast a ballot.
Once the stub portion of the ballot is completed and the shenasnameh stamped, the stub is separated from the ballot and deposited into a box where all the stubs are collected. The voter then proceeds to the voting station, fills in the name of their desired candidate, folds the ballot in half and casts their ballot in a ballot box.
The Count
Polling stations in Iran are typically open from 8am to 8pm. These hours can be extended by the MoI if the turnout warrants it.
Once the polling station is closed, the counting process begins. Polling station officials first count the ballot stubs, followed by the ballots. If the number of stubs and ballots are equal, then the actual vote count begins. If there are more votes than ballots, then the difference is randomly selected from the ballot box and the votes cancelled, then the ballots are counted. In cases where there are more stubs than ballots, the discrepancy is reported and the votes are counted.
Once the votes are counted and results tallied, the official results are certified, all ballots are returned to the ballot box, which is then sealed and officially transferred to the Executive Committee.
It is important to note that neither the general public nor outside entities are permitted to officially monitor the elections. However, candidate agents may be present at every polling station during the voting hours and during the vote count. Additionally, they may attend every Election Executive Committee meeting during the election period.
Posted by: b | Jun 20 2009 13:53 utc | 70
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