B, I think US fatigue will set in faster than you seem to-- and meanwhile other Asian actors with considerably more at stake than any NATO members will be increasing their involvement in Afghanistan a lot...

Meanwhile, you omitted the all-important hyphen that Al Kamen used in the CAEWWT-DUH acronym, which handily highlights the 'duh' nature of the whole concept.

Posted by: Helena | Mar 27 2009 19:11 utc | 1

The Obama Administration and Congress are taking the easy way out; doubling down in Afghanistan and Wall Street.

Paul Krugman in the New York Times and Simon Johnson in the Atlantic both lay out the facts. If the 40 trillion dollars of toxic waste and the derivative insurance were wiped off the books, the USA will be a much poorer place. The Giants of Finance would be wiped out. The value of our homes and pensions would decline farther. The Military Industrial Complex would fizzle away.

Rather than ending the long wars, closing insolvent banks and facing the resulting malaise, now is time for happy talk and denial.

Not noticed in the media, the GWOT death toll is now up to 5381.

Debt, causalities and death will sooner or later end it all.

Posted by: VietnamVet | Mar 27 2009 19:25 utc | 2

retreat will become inevitable.

You said the same thing about Iraq. The reason you're wrong about these matters is your unflinching devotion to "the US must be brought to its knees" or "US army encircled and destroyed" sentiments. These sentiments are the only things animating you political "philosophy," even as your philosophy insinuates the doom of your own rotten country.

NATO ought to leave. But not even the pusillanimous Germans like the Pashtun. There's no chance in hell NATO will leave Afghanistan. No way.

But dream on, b.

Posted by: slothrop | Mar 27 2009 19:52 utc | 3

the point slothrop, is, who will pay for the war and why.

Posted by: outsider | Mar 27 2009 20:01 utc | 4

actually, my take is that blowing Pakistan up is intentional. Like in Ex-Yugoslavia.

Posted by: outsider | Mar 27 2009 20:03 utc | 5

killin' is fun slothrop. how many people have you killed? or do you simply masturbate while watching others do it?

you are pathetic.

Posted by: dan of steele | Mar 27 2009 20:23 utc | 6

NPR (the only mainstream news I can stand, only because it lacks commercials) reported that Obama has a clear vision of what the objectives of this conflict are. Obama said,:

The situation is increasingly perilous. It’s been more than seven years since the Taliban was removed from power, yet war rages on, and insurgents control parts of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Attacks against our troops, our NATO allies, and the Afghan government have risen steadily. And most painfully, 2008 was the deadliest year of the war for American forces.

Many people in the United States—and many in partner countries that have sacrificed so much—have a simple question: What is our purpose in Afghanistan? After so many years, they ask, why do our men and women still fight and die there? And they deserve a straightforward answer.

So let me be clear: Al Qaeda and its allies—the terrorists who planned and supported the 9/11 attacks—are in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Multiple intelligence estimates have warned that al Qaeda is actively planning attacks on the United States homeland from its safe haven in Pakistan. And if the Afghan government falls to the Taliban—or allows al Qaeda to go unchallenged—that country will again be a base for terrorists who want to kill as many of our people as they possibly can.

So I want the American people to understand that we have a clear and focused goal: to disrupt, dismantle and defeat al Qaeda in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and to prevent their return to either country in the future. That’s the goal that must be achieved. That is a cause that could not be more just. And to the terrorists who oppose us, my message is the same: We will defeat you.

Some of George W's words;

Our mission in Iraq is clear. We're hunting down the terrorists. We're helping Iraqis build a free nation that is an ally in the war on terror. We're advancing freedom in the broader Middle East. We are removing a source of violence and instability, and laying the foundation of peace for our children and our grandchildren.

...Some wonder whether Iraq is a central front in the war on terror. Among the terrorists, there is no debate. Hear the words of Osama Bin Laden: "This Third World War is raging" in Iraq.¹ "The whole world is watching this war." He says it will end in "victory and glory, or misery and humiliation." The terrorists know that the outcome will leave them emboldened, or defeated. So they are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to take.

After September the 11th, 2001, I told the American people that the road ahead would be difficult, and that we would prevail. Well, it has been difficult -- and we are prevailing. Our enemies are brutal, but they are no match for the United States of America, and they are no match for the men and women of the United States military.

Rhetoric, rhetoric, don't focus on what the men behind the curtain are doing, it might make you sick.

Posted by: d.13 | Mar 27 2009 20:25 utc | 7

@outsider - my take is that blowing Pakistan up is intentional

I agree - the U.S. wants to fight China - war on Pakistan is just a proxy for that - than again war on Vietnam was proxy of that fight too - didn't end that good for the U.S.

Posted by: b | Mar 27 2009 20:26 utc | 8

it is as certain that the economy will not find its bottom that the u s empire & its unwilling allies will retreat from afghanistan - as all empires have done before them

the empire has already been de"feated in iraq & in fact their departure will be at a time of the iraq peoples choosing

i have been reading a great many monographs via b's link to rick - & even those in the warrior scholar schools see defeat before their very eyes

& unless you are keeping your lights under a bushel, sloth, i don't see any strategist military or otherwise who see anything other than doom & what they utter they utter with dread

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Mar 27 2009 20:28 utc | 9

it is as certain that the economy will not find its bottom that the u s empire & its unwilling allies will retreat from afghanistan - as all empires have done before them

the empire has already been de"feated in iraq & in fact their departure will be at a time of the iraq peoples choosing

i have been reading a great many monographs via b's link to rick - & even those in the warrior scholar schools see defeat before their very eyes

& unless you are keeping your lights under a bushel, sloth, i don't see any strategist military or otherwise who see anything other than doom & what they utter they utter with dread

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Mar 27 2009 20:28 utc | 10

blowing Pakistan up is intentional

There's no way "Taliban" insurgents threaten to take over Pakistan.

And let's not forget the real threat the "Taliban" pose to the West. They harbored al Qaeda, who with a little saudi money, blew up some boxey buildings in Manhattan. Let's not forget the Taliban decided to go to war against the US and allies. (I'm aware the temptation to find in the vast regression of causes an etiology of evil begun by the West against Afghanistan et al.But, eventually, this temptation requires the tempted to excuse any magnitude of horror because "the US must be brought to its knees")

Posted by: slothrop | Mar 27 2009 20:38 utc | 11

US will bring to their knees by themselves, if they go on like this.

Posted by: andrew | Mar 27 2009 20:42 utc | 12

i always forget its technical name in chess but yes - a self mate

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Mar 27 2009 20:44 utc | 13

the U.S. wants to fight China

Mirabile dictu! You're on a role.

But before all that, the Empire will blow up the Moon.

Posted by: slothrop | Mar 27 2009 20:46 utc | 14

@Helena @1 - I didn't knew Al Kamen used that.

@sloth @3 - you may not have noticed but the U.S. is in retreat in Iraq.

Posted by: b | Mar 27 2009 20:50 utc | 15

Automobiles - not Al Qaeda and its allies — are the real terrorists, killing 5,000 US pedestrians every year. Last year, 5,000. This year, 5,000. Next year, 5,000. 5,000 as regular as rain.

One pedestrian is run down by an automobile in the US every 2 hours. Bu-bump bu-bump.

There's nothing in these three links of b's to comment on. Pepe is pimping books. Time is a Pravdan propagandchik of the Politburo. That white paper is typical Beltway Merc politic-babble Crusader choss. Yawn... wonder if Dancing with the Stars is on tonight?

What ever happened to Malooga? Did s(he) pop a blood vessel?

Posted by: Peristroika | Mar 27 2009 20:57 utc | 16

b, I'd say you've run pretty fast and far away from the starting point of your version of US "defeat."

The plain fact is, the US "won," if by "win" is meant:

-the murder of a million Iraqisd
-the "wreck and ruin" of Iraq as a country
-the defeat of sadaam
-permanent military presence in Iraq
-access to western development of natural resources
-the development of Iraq as an economic vassal to global accumulation

You're wrong, and you've been wrong all along.

Posted by: slothrop | Mar 27 2009 21:04 utc | 17

actually I thought they were after Iran, sloth, there is a lot of diversity in the region that can be exploited in a not so neo colonial game
b, the US cannot afford to piss off China
but probably this does not have anything to do with any reality and they are just trying to be too clever on a green Washington table to try to make Obama look tough.

Posted by: outsider | Mar 27 2009 21:06 utc | 18

actually I thought they were after Iran, sloth, there is a lot of diversity in the region that can be exploited in a not so neo colonial game
b, the US cannot afford to piss off China
but probably this does not have anything to do with any reality and they are just trying to be too clever on a green Washington table to try to make Obama look tough.

Posted by: outsider | Mar 27 2009 21:06 utc | 19

If hostilities in Pakistan start to look the least little bit like a proxy war with China, keep your eye on the bouncing balls. You'll see how fast the US can be brought to its knees.

Posted by: ...---... | Mar 27 2009 21:20 utc | 20

-- 20) you're reading way, way too much into AfPak™. Mil.gov is out of work in Iraq!
They need to move their war factory east, even if they have to break it down and fly it in piece by piece, gotta get the War in EurAsia going full swing again, for their quarterly $100B loot fest, "emergency funding for Afghanistan, Pakistan and other undisclosed national security purposes," that, on top of the $118B in DOD funding for salaries and benefits for active duty troops, which pencils out to like $3M per ADT.

Reminding you all that Reagan gave CIA freedom for domestic espionage and Bush gave CIA freedom for domestic propaganda, which is still in full swing in Alexandria, all the merc Pharoahs' Helpers licking the Master's staff with this kind of trype:

"If we don't find ways to spread our prosperity around the World, the have-nots will come and take it away from us with guns and bombs and box cutters. All of the walls and fences cannot protect the United States, Europe, and Saudi Arabia from overwhelming illegal immigration. Weapons and fences doom us, like the Texans at the Alamo. Eventually they will be overrun by 3 billion human beings living in abject poverty, but with access to the latest episodes of "24" and "Sleeper Cell," unless we help the Mexicans achieve their dreams of Texas in Mexico."

Whiskey for my men, beer for my horses. Man!

Posted by: | Mar 27 2009 21:46 utc | 21

"There's no chance in hell NATO will leave Afghanistan. No way."

sloth, you've made the same emphatic assertion about Iraq a million times - an yet the U.S. IS on its way out of Iraq. And WITHOUT the last 3 conditions of "winning", I might add. Defeat has many different personifications, especially considering "war is politics by other means", and the political objectives have not been met.

Posted by: anna missed | Mar 27 2009 22:44 utc | 22

Slothrop, if this is winning in Iraq, I'm sure glad we didn't lose, 'cause I don't think I could afford it!

The only people who win in a war are the profiteers... everyone else suffers; either from the effects of weapons or of the increased taxes. I suppose the reason people pay the taxes is because they're so overjoyed to not have been the targets of the weapons.

"Kill whomever, we'll pay for it, just don't do it here at home. No more of that 9/11 bullshit, stick to screwing the brown people and we'll suck it up and work six jobs to pay for it." We say each April...

Why am I feeling more and more like the ever-suffering redneck wife, married an alcoholic with a gambling problem who comes home to the trailer from the speakeasy reeking of whisky and looking for some unnatural love?

This may explain why my ass hurts. The government's phallus has been lodged in my backside for so long it's become a permanent part of my anatomy. The guy wearing it changes, but the phallus remains stuck, and feels as though its forced-in further each year I'm alive. Surly this isn't what america's founding fathers had in mind.

Posted by: d.13 | Mar 27 2009 23:09 utc | 23

I don't think the US will be brought to it's knees by these wars, but Iraq sure as hell was brought to it's knees and then knocked on it's back. This should be a source of intense, mind-numbing, suicidal shame for any decent American - that we destroyed a country that never attacked or threatened us.

Now they are going to wreck Afghanistan and Pakistan. It is sickening. Bombing and invading Afghanistan to get some mass murderers makes as much sense as bombing Murphy NC to get Eric Rudolph.

Say what you will about Israel and the IDF, but at least someone was firing at them before they started their massacre. Not true for the USA in Iraq, and not true for the Nazis when they went into Poland and various other countries.

Posted by: Susan | Mar 28 2009 0:36 utc | 24

The hacks and whoors are coming out of the woodwork on AfPak™, but what the Hilo is a "CNN National Security Analyst"? Is that scatology?

Posted by: | Mar 28 2009 3:39 utc | 25

language as its own war theatre: i heard a phrase the other day on NPR: a component of the new AfPak strategy to incorporate civilian wooing backed by the big guns: a granule understanding the public radio friendly military soothsayer said.

finally, good paying jobs for anthropologists.

Posted by: Lizard | Mar 28 2009 5:05 utc | 26

Interesting comments, nice to see Mz. Cobban droppin in with her thoughts.

I gotta admit I'm disappointed in a LOT of things the Obama Admin (hell, the appointments to date greatly disappoint me) has put to motion, speak, or intent.

Still, it's better n the past gulag.

And this admin has its hands full trying to govern effectively in any manner, fashion or form given the HUGE pressures on it, or any US Admin anymore, from the MIC, big biz, bankers/financial industry/Wall St, progressives, left wing nutz, right wing nutz, churches, GOP, conservative loons and more.

Almost IMPOSSIBLE to move a Senate OR a House to your positions to reshape what is, and the pork and personal goodies that corrupt our country from top to bottom.

So as a progressive, mostly anti-war kinda ex long haired hippie . . . I'm disappointed.

I want more, SO much more. And I'm buying into the centrist memes that we CAN'T change TOO much or it will all come crashing down.

And I think we're doomed, and it WILL all come crashing down, anyways, because the entire system is fucked up, like Warren Zevon penned 'My Shit's Fucked Up' . . . our shit's fucked up.

It can only play out to its end. We can't sustain the way we've existed as a nation, we are broke getting broker so we can't EXPAND the way we've existed, we can't afford the overseas interventions, the homeland scene is gonna get poor, poorer, and uglier.

Food, housing/shelter, transportation is goin in the toilet as jobs disappear.

And there are some astute comments above, from Sloth, from RemGiap (I remember Na Trong, Dalat), from B of course, Helena, #20 makes a VERY good point about why we are NOT really looking to go to war with China, not now, not ever. No more than we are looking to war with Russia, now, or ever.

Summing up? It's too fuckin early people. In AF-PAK, Iraq, or anywhere else.

Obama could be the progressive deliverance, he could be the conservative messiah.

It's too early to call.

Any and EVERY thing overseas is anti-climatic to us, we the people, and to the planet for that matter, until we resolve our economic issues, find jobs for our people, feed and shelter our own.

Cuz if we can't do that, then it's gonna mean a harsh, heavy and weapons based hand coming down here at home on us all, and the same abroad.

But it's too early, people. It's too early to predict outcomes. We are lucky we have an idea as to what tomorrow brings . . . .

And in Obama's Admin, in Washington, on Wall Street . . . it's day by day.

It's early. It's critical, critical as hell OF COURSE. We are THIS close to complete system failure in the USA, IMHO.

But it's early to predict shit in AFPAK.

Good to dialogue about it all, though.

Rap on, all you soothsayers, doomsdayers, prophets and learned peoples.

Rap on.

But please, spare me the predilictions of the predications of your predictions. All of you.

It's too fuckin early to call yer shots. Yer blowin yer wads and the director has NOT called for the money shot.

Yer all killin me.

-Harumph ;-)

Posted by: Larue | Mar 28 2009 5:25 utc | 27

...oh, another thing i heard on NPR. they, being the local govt' backed by The Terminator Guvna' in California, are going to "close down" one of the tent cities, this one outside Sacramento. the option, for those who choose the only alternative, is to move into a fair ground converted for temporary shelter that will itself close down at the end of June. and you have to be locked in at night, you know, for safety.

tent cities are potent, emerging symbols of the fiscal malaise, and in more temperate climates the possibility of some locations becoming actual destinations is probably making local pols nervous.

what will the summer bring?

Larue: I want more, SO much more. And I'm buying into the centrist memes that we CAN'T change TOO much or it will all come crashing down.

i've been arguing lately with quite a few people who have adopted that mode of thinking, and i really don't think it's accurate. it's yet to be proven how spiteful the fallen masters of their little universes will be when their toys are taken from them and they get the spanking they deserve. BAD BANKERS!

obviously i don't think that will happen, but one can still freely dream, right?

Posted by: Lizard | Mar 28 2009 5:46 utc | 28

winning post # 13

The government's phallus has been lodged in my backside for so long it's become a permanent part of my anatomy. The guy wearing it changes, but the phallus remains stuck, and feels as though its forced-in further each year I'm alive. Surly this isn't what america's founding fathers had in mind.

say it girl

susan, Say what you will about Israel and the IDF, but at least someone was firing at them before they started their massacre.

according to their own intelligence hamas didn't start the rockets up til after the idf invasion (pretense: an alleged soon to be imminent kidnapping) nov 4. previous attacks were some unknown islamic militant group w/an unheard of name. given the idf 6 month plus war preparations and the timing of the event (last of chenyco, pre O) the 'least' of someone attacking them could have been themselves, especially given the one death by fire and the pr impact of schoolyard(s), albeit empty ones. just sayin'.

Posted by: annie | Mar 28 2009 6:44 utc | 29

according to their own intelligence

that would be israeli intelligence, as reported on their official website. i could find the link as i have already posted it, in the archives here.

Posted by: annie | Mar 28 2009 6:47 utc | 30

February 22, 2006 - Blast Destroys Shrine in Iraq, Setting Off Sectarian Fury. BAGHDAD, Iraq, Feb. 22 — A powerful explosion shattered the golden dome of one of Iraq's most revered Shiite shrines this morning, setting off a day of almost unparalleled sectarian fury in cities and towns across Iraq as protesting mobs took to the streets to chant for revenge and set fire to dozens of Sunni mosques. The bombing of the Golden Mosque in Samarra, 60 miles north of Baghdad, left its famous golden dome in ruins but injured no one, and only a handful of people appear to have been killed in the widespread street protests and violence that ensued. President Bush issued a statement today extending his sympathy to Iraqis for the bombing. "The United States condemns this cowardly act in the strongest possible terms," Mr. Bush said in Washington.

The logical question asked is who are trying to provoke the Iraqi civil war? And who benefits from such a vicious attack on the foundation of Islamic identity and culture? Neo-cons and the editorials will say its Al-Qaeda or Sunni insurgents. However, bombing of the Golden Domed Mosques twice within eighteen months is the work of specialist and highly trained saboteurs and bomb-expert that were executing destruction to incite sectarian violence. The blast bears all the characteristics of a covert intelligence-agency operation. It reminds me of French OAS in Algeria in 1962, setting off bombs among France’s Muslim community in an effort to set Muslims against Muslims, Arabs against Arabs which led to half million civilian dead.

March 27, 2008 - 'Suicide attack' on Pakistan mosque kills dozens. PESHAWAR, Pakistan - A 'suicide bomber' [no evidence whatsoever] demolished a mosque packed with hundreds of worshippers attending Friday prayers near the Afghan border. "As the prayer leader said 'God is Great', the 'bomb went off' with a big bang," said Nadir Shah, a local paramilitary soldier [COUNTER-INTEL who magically survived] attending the mosque. The 'blast' which 'caved in' the mosques's roof [much as a UAV-fired GPS-aimed Hellfire missile would] came hours before President Barack Obama unveiled a revised strategy to "disrupt, defeat and dismantle" the al-Qaida terrorist organization.

The logical question asked is who are trying to provoke a Pakistani civil war?
Who sent Benazir Bhutto to her death on December 27, 2007? Then what followed?
The New York Times reported February 15, 2008 that the Bush administration was considering expanding covert operations [UAV death from above border incursions] in the western part of Pakistan to 'shore up support for Musharraf's government' and to 'find bin Laden and his second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri'. A Pashtu-language Pakistani television channel reported that deputy al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri was killed in a July 28, 2008 by a U.S. airstrike on a madrassa in the Pakistani tribal belt 'along the Afghan border'.

Posted by: Dribble Cup | Mar 28 2009 6:50 utc | 31

Slothrop, before you continue with your asinine comments you might wish to read "The Devil We Know" by ex-CIA operative Robert Baer who explains in excruciating detail how U.S. stupidity has handed the entire region, including Iraq, to Iran on a plate.

I write "asinine comments", because your second comment was about b´s "rotten country" which just happens to be a lot more civilized than yours that is plagued by ´rotten´ infrastructure, a ´rotten´ wealth gap, a ´rotten´ economy, ´rotten´ 25 % unemployment, ´rotten´ rifle/armaments/WMD/pharma/tobacco/Zionist lobbies, 50 million 3rd class citizens without healthcare and a rotten foreign policy that has not only supported Israeli genocide of Palestine but made my damned Mullahs richer and more powerful than in their wildest dreams. Thank you, America, for empowering the most corrupt and hypocritical regime my nation has ever had. Now the U.S.A. and Iran finally have something in common .....

My only relief is in finding such intelligent, humble and self-critical (obviously excluding you) intellectuals on this Blog, even if I find most of the comments too defeatist at times.

Posted by: Parviz | Mar 28 2009 7:41 utc | 32

Sarah Chayes runs the Arghand Cooperative in Kandahar and advises the commander of NATO troops in Afghanistan.

'Lower your sights' is the wrong vision for Afghanistan

As U.S. officials talk down our goals, Afghans are listening and wondering what happened to our promises.

To pursue its anti-terrorism goals, the U.S. military relied on Afghan proxies it recruited from the ranks of warlords the Taliban had driven from the country in 1994. ... What ensued has been a free-for-all of corruption and abuse of power, with ordinary citizens paying the price. Our cooperative, for example, recently imported some solar energy equipment, which we needed because of the ongoing lack of electricity in Kandahar. We had to pay about $1,200 in bribes at seven different checkpoints on the road from the Pakistani border and at the Kandahar customs house. Judicial decisions are bought and sold, as is public office. Driver's licenses, death certificates and electricity meters come with a heavy surcharge. Lucrative contracts are monopolized by power brokers. The corruption infuriates ordinary Afghans, who do not see such abuses as part of their culture.

The result has been that a country that in 2002 enthusiastically welcomed the young government of Karzai and the international presence is now turning back to the Taliban. This is not out of affinity or ideological bent but because -- as was the case in 1994, when the Taliban first arrived on the scene -- it represents a practical alternative to the reigning chaos.
...

Posted by: b | Mar 28 2009 10:39 utc | 33

Today Karzai was smiling like a Cheshire cat at the new U.S. initiative, possibly because his brother is amassing gigantic wealth in cahoots with the Taleban. I hope Karzai gets his share of the loot.

Posted by: Parviz | Mar 28 2009 14:29 utc | 34

suppose that there's really no intention to (quote-unquote) win any so-called war in the sense of walking away w/ a victory, whatever that would entail. suppose instead that, as a geopolitical strategy, the objective is to keep the region destabilized enough so that puppets can retain a semblance of contractual authority. Also, to keep external adversaries distracted toward specific perceived threats, forced now to shift finite time, strategies & military expenditures in this area at the cost of other endeavors, such as coalition building that doesn't serve the interests of western powers, primarily the u.s.

and there are, of course, economic incentives in war, as the entire history of the u.s. reveals

Posted by: b real | Mar 28 2009 20:38 utc | 35

@ 25 bergen is a fraud. frauds being employed by cnn is nothing new - he writes in the tradition of richard quest who was charged with tying a rope between his neck & balls in central park

at all these 'information' channels - by fuck they love their names - chief political coirrespondant , chief this & that as if they were actually delivering news & not their supermarket of slosh

in any case whatever a scholar is - bergen is the opposite - he has turned one interview into his life's work - intelligence analyst - they still don't know their heads from their ass

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Mar 28 2009 21:27 utc | 36

The US has achieved some medium-term "stability" to advance the obvious objectives.

As for the managed chaos thing, that would suppose the US could manage some semblance of order imposed somewhere, on someone.

Posted by: slothrop | Mar 28 2009 21:48 utc | 37

managed chaos

your words, not mine, for i don't presuppose any ongoing mgmt is necessary. merely the introduction of chaos is a tactic unto itself. in the u.s. global war on islam we can see that divisions of many sorts are picked up on & used to set muslim against muslim. and not even necessarily to conquer, ala divide et impera, but to keep them from unifying & challenging the hegemony of western powers

as for "some semblance of order imposed somewhere, on someone" - you're soaking in it

Posted by: b real | Mar 28 2009 22:31 utc | 38

@25 murdoch does it better than us

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Mar 28 2009 22:50 utc | 39

you got that right

Posted by: slothrop | Mar 29 2009 2:09 utc | 40

I wonder why don't so many intelligent people in the American and western intelligentia as well as US, NATO administration understand that the roots of extremism and terrorism lie somewhere in the power corridors of Islamabad and Rawalpindi and the war against extremism can not be won by bombing and annahilating the hamlets and villages of the Pakhtuns. They should instead compell the Pakistani establishment and ISI to stop considering the extremists as their strategic assets to be used as proxies in its wars against its neighbours. The day the Pakistani government and security apparatus accepts and actively pursues this fact, the US and NATO would have won the war. Moreover, the nurseries of extremism donot lie in the North West Frontier only, in fact bulk of them are in the central and southern Punjab. This huge terrorist training infrastructure in cities like Lahore, Muredke, Jhang, Bahawalpur and Multan is producing thousands of hardline extremists by the day, who then find their way to the tribal areas. Pashtuns are just an unfortunate people who happen to be victims of the US/NATO forces, Taliban and AlQaeeda, and Pakistani security forces alike. Let me give you an example. In SWAT district to which I belong, all the national and provincial assembly seats were won overwhelmingly won by the candidates belonging to the secular and liberal party ANP in the elections held in Feb 08. Yet the Security forces and Government, to appease the few Taliban; have imposed Sharia laws in the region. Isn't that proof enough, where the problem is and where the solution lies?

Posted by: Fatima Ahmed | Mar 29 2009 19:28 utc | 41

Dissecting the Anti-Pakistan Psyop
By: Peter Chamberlin
Another anomaly in the “war of [mistakes] terror” may have been solved. The unfolding story about the anti-Pakistan psyop revolves around Britain’s MI6 and the “Pakistani Taliban.”
What exactly were Mervyn Patterson and Michael Semple doing in Helmand? At the end of December, 2007 the European diplomats were arrested and evicted from Afghanistan for “talking to the Taliban.” News reports after the fact reveal that the two diplomats were actually agents of British MI6 secret service, sent to strike a bargain with top Taliban leader Mullah Dadullah or his younger half-brother Mansoor. The negotiations are alleged to have begun in early summer, according to the British press.
But the operation began much earlier than that, in March, when Mansoor Dadullah was released on March 19 in a prisoner exchange for Italian journalist Daniele Mastrogiacomo, who was being held by feared Taliban leader Mullah Dadullah.

Again, according to the British press, the whole attempt at turning Mansoor began in an operation to kill his brother. The recruiting attempt began with that prisoner exchange which freed Mansoor. He was tracked from Quetta back to Helmand where British Special Forces killed Mullah Dadullah on May12, 2007, using the latest technology (Predators) to follow his satellite phone signal. Either they supplied him the phone or they simply tailed him from Helmand to Quetta, where they managed to pick-out his the satellite phone.
The evidence that the operation began with the prison release of Mansoor is only circumstantial, that being that it was the Western negotiators who introduced him into the equation (the Taliban leader didn’t mention Mansoor in the initial contact, naming only Taliban spokesmen Mohammad Hanif and Abdul Latif Hakimi) and the British press admits that Mullah was killed by successfully following Mansoor.
A voice recording of a man claiming to be top Taliban commander Mullah Dadullah has said an Italian journalist captured by the militants has confessed to spying for the British military…Apparently referring to the detentions of two Taliban spokesmen, the man in the recording also accused the Western media of bias.

"They give one-sided freedom to media. We don't give a one-sided freedom to media. The media should be all free or should be banned totally.

"No one can accept ... that the Taliban journalists be in prisons and their journalists be free."

The hold-up to introduce the Mansoor operation into play cost Daniele Mastrogiacomo’s driver, Sayed Agha his head.
RAI-1 channel beamed images of Italian journalist Daniele Mastrogiacomo, his driver Sayed Agha and his interpreter Ajmal Naqshbandi, kneeling blindfolded before gun-wielding militants.
It then showed Agha being beheaded

Ajmal Naqshbandi worked as a guide for visiting reporters

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Mastrogiacomo was freed to celebrate his life and mourn the brutal death of his friend. The American and British military geniuses who conceived the Dadullah ploy rejoiced at the success of their devious diversion and celebrated before the fact the coming fate of Mullah Dadullah.
On May 10 2007 , Tony Blair announced that he will formally step down from his post on June 27; no reason is given.
On or about May. 11, British military begins talks with Afghan “civilians” (read:Taliban).
Dadullah was killed by a British commando attack two days later, on 13 May 2007.
The British were arrogantly intent on reviving their colonial skills at dealing with and against the local tribes (See The Legendary Fighters of Waziristan), so they apparently sought-out Mullah Dadullah in an attempt to replicate his successful negotiations with Pakistan. The Taliban chieftain must have balked at negotiations with “slaves of America,” (meaning the British or the Afghan puppet regime), since he termed such negotiations as “impossible” in an interview with Al Jazeera given at about that time. Even though negotiations with the Taliban’s old friends in Pakistan was acceptable to him, it was beyond the pale to suggest to the old mujahedeen veteran negotiating with the back-stabbing Americans and Brits.
Even though he was known as a ruthless killer and a charismatic militant leader, reaching Dadullah seemed feasible to the Brits, after all, he had just signed a truce on September 24, 2006 between the Pakistani Army and the local Taliban. Mullah Omar had sent one of his most trusted and feared commanders, Mullah Dadullah, to ask local militants to sign the truce.
"Had they been not asked by Mullah Omar, none of them were willing to sign an agreement," said Lateef Afridi, a tribal elder and former national assembly member. "This is no peace agreement, it is accepting Taliban rule in Pakistan's territory."

“An Interior Ministry statement said Dadullah was killed in fighting with security forces in Helmand's Girishk district on Saturday night.”
The Western powers missed a grand opportunity to excise the real “al Qaida” Wahabbi fighters from Pakistani territory, when they failed to see the significance of the Pakistani/Taliban accord created by Mullah Omar. Thousands of “al Qaida” Uzbeks were entrenched in Waziristan, waging war against the local populace to enforce their version of “Shariah” law, and instigating war against the Pakistani Army. The treaty signed by Dadullah stopped the anti-government warfare and later inspired local tribal leaders to raise “Lashkars” (militia forces) to fight against the “al Qaida” and to expel them from the region.
Instead of supporting Pakistan’s efforts and bringing peace to the Afghan Taliban’s troublesome rear areas by building on the division that was opening-up between the actual “al Qaida” terrorists and the local Pashtun tribal militias, Bush and Cheney chose to use the Predator and terrorist attacks as a tool for closing the gap between the battling groups, in order to wage war upon the Pakistani government for defying their orders.
On the night that Dadullah was killed, May 13, 2007, fierce fighting broke-out between the Pakistani and Afghan (or coalition) forces:
“early Sunday when the Pakistani army attempted to position their forces in mountains in Goyee area of Jaji district of the south-eastern Paktia province, General Zahir Azimi, Afghan defence ministry spokesman told a press conference.”
This killing of Afghans by Pakistani troops outraged the local tribesmen, who began to marshal tribal defenses to defend against the aggression.
May 15 Mansoor replaces Dadullah as new Taliban commander.
Meanwhile, in Pakistan, the local “Taliban” were busily engaged in inter-tribal warfare, to expel Uzbek/”al Qaida” criminals from their midst.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS8nqBuvrBo]

On 15 May 2007 a powerful bomb ripped through a hotel Peshawar has killed at least 24 people.
“The Marhaba, is popular with tribal visitors from Afghanistan.”
On may 18, 2007 four policemen were seized in Islamabad at the Red Mosque (Lal Masjid).
The relationship between the European spies and Mansoor Dadullah developed throughout the year.
On July 24, Abdullah Mehsud was killed near Quetta.
On Oct. 18, 2007 Benazir Bhutto returned to Karachi, to be greeted with a massive suicide bomb attempt on her life. “Al Qaida” was blamed for the blast.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eawcajsIr1I&feature=player_embedded]
November 3, 2007, President Musharref declares a national emergency in Pakistan.
On 13 Dec 2007 Britain is understood to have given the green light to President Hamid Karzai to undertake talks with Taliban militants as part of a long-term strategy to bring peace in Afghanistan..
December 14, 2007, the formation of the Taliban Movement of Pakistan (TTP).
December 16, Musharref lifts the state of emergency declared on Nov. 3.
On 26 Dec 2007 Karzai orders the arrest of the British agents.
On December 27 Benazir Bhutto was killed,
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_vXFN3SViY]
Dec. 29, 2007, Taleban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahed read to AFP over the telephone a statement issued by Omar that said Mullah Mansoor Dadullah was sacked
“because he disobeyed orders of the Islamic Emirate’ of Taleban.”
What was the order that Mansoor failed to follow? Was he cast-out for dealing with the Brits, or for blowing the deal with the Brits? Or was he shunned because he ordered the assassination of the popular female Pakistani politician on orders from some shady higher authority?
Riots and killing broke-out across Pakistan after the murder of Bhutto, turning into an opportunity for the British-influenced TTP to begin a new wider campaign of terror in FATA and North West Frontier Province.
7 January 2008:
“Gunmen stormed the office of Taleban commander Maulavi Nazir in Wana on Sunday night and killed three of his supporters and wounded four others, officials said.
They said five people were killed in the nearby Shkai area in another attack on the office of Commander Khanan, who is loyal to Mullah Nazir.
Officials say they suspect the attackers to be Uzbek militants, who are opposed to Mullah Nazir”.
The wave of terror expanded to the major cities:

10 January 2008 “A suicide bomber killed at least 22 people and wounded another 60 when he hurled himself at policemen standing outside the high court in the eastern Pakistani city of Lahore this morning.”
The Sararogha Fort raid occurred on 15-16 January 2008 when several dozen Islamic militants overrun a paramilitary fort in South Waziristan,
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[The last half of the video discusses the economic problems, “less than dollar a day wages,” that drive desperate people into seeking radical, non-conventional solutions to their lives, such as joining militant groups. Here is where Obama’s plan of economic pay-offs and incentives might find a lot of “reconcilables.”]
On Jan. 29 the CIA launched its Predator war upon Pakistan.

Feb. 11, 2008 Mullah Mansoor Dadullah, a senior Taliban figure, has been wounded and captured along with five lieutenants by Pakistan's Frontier Corps, the Pakistani military reported.

Mansoor Dadullah arrested near Quetta Feb. 12, 2008
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d7-e4PvF9A]

It is thought Mansoor may have been double-crossed as part of a deal between the hardline "neo" Taleban in Pakistan, and local security forces.

“[Semple] had become close to tribes in northern Afghanistan during the Taliban's rule in the late 1990s. Semple has a Muslim Pakistani wife.” This places him in a good place to recruit Northern Alliance and Uzbek fighters for a destabilizing mission into Pakistan, under the guise of a new insurgent group like the TTP (Tehreek e-Taliban Pakistan), which formed later in December. Mullah Dadullah had attended the promotion ceremony of Baitullah Mehsud to Taliban commander and brokered the truce between Mehsud and the Army September 24, 2006.
The deal that the British were offering was to employ Dadullah and all 2500 of his fighters, some as militia-type forces, others for honest labor on non-opium projects. While this was going on the British were waging a psyop to disorient the local Taliban and to turn them against each other, through hired spies, they were devastating the local cadres, causing everyone to mistrust their comrades. Were Dadullah’s fighters being sent into Waziristan to target Pakistani leaders, to start the same process of sowing mistrust? Had the Brits hired these guys as an army of mercenary spies?
Are the Brits part of the same coalition who is funding the TTP? Did the TTP launch its offensive in reaction to British treachery, or led into the escalation by British influence? Considering the long-range meddling that preceded Bhutto’s assassination, it is probable that the offensive was just another manipulation by the Brits and their financial backers (the invisible financiers who produce the whole show).
In most cases of recent Sunni militant groups associated with the name “al Qaida,” the Saudis and their Gulf State friends have proven to be the secret sources of operational funds, command and control, just as it has been since the jihad in Afghanistan began in 1979. Between the radical militant groups linked to “al Qaida,” and the radical Wahabbi madrassas that pump-out new “Taliban,” Saudi Arabia (Pakistan’s other “best friend”) is also slowly cutting the Nation’s throat. Pakistan’s “friends” will be the death of her yet.
Was the Taliban split that was being staged a mirror image of the British/American “split” over Afghan policy that initiated the whole process of revelation and shakedown in late December. Was Mansoor busted by Mullah Omar on December 29 because the operation was exposed, or because of the assassination of Benizir Bhutto on the 27th? The idea of exposing the plot to the media told the Taliban that they could not even trust their leaders.
June 10, 2008, American Predator attacks Pakistani outpost at Gora Prai, resulting in the deaths of 11 paramilitary troops of the Frontier Corps.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcPfmHhPB1E]
July 8, 2008, the Indian embassy in Kabul is bombed, killing the military attaché, Pakistan is blamed for the attack.
July 11, 2008, Nine Pakistanis hurt in fire from Afghanistan

WANA, Pakistan (Reuters) - Seven Pakistani soldiers and two civilians have been wounded by firing from inside Afghanistan in the latest incident along the border between the uneasy U.S. allies… "About 60 rounds fell in Angoor Adda,"
On July 12, 2008, after a strategic meeting between US and Pakistan military leaders, an open rift was exposed between the two sides for all the world to see, at that time, the Predator war against Pakistan went into high gear (See: US/Pakistan Showdown/Throwdown July12).
August 18, 2008, Musharref’s resignation is accepted by the National Assembly.
Sep 6, 2008, the scandal-ridden widower of Benazir Bhutto, Asif Zardari (“Mr. Ten Percent”) is given the job of playing Pakistan's president, for the next act of the deadly psycho-drama.
The war being waged against the Pakistani government since then is an even greater staged event. Pakistan is being dismembered by the concentrated application of fear and tension through repeated Predator and terror attacks upon groups of citizens, local madrassas and government forces. The people doing this in Pakistan are the same people who were doing it in Afghanistan. Whether this dismemberment, primarily by way of the TTP movement, is a product of a British psyop or a combination of US and British spies carrying-out a great play act together is immaterial; the important thing for Pakistanis to realize is that their so-called “friends” have built a hostile force in their midst. Cooperation with America or Britain, to eliminate the terror that so many people have worked so hard to create is suicidal.
President Obama claims to want to turn the situation around in “Af-Pak.” If he is serious about this claim then the first thing he will do is put an end to the ongoing psyop against Pakistan and take control of targeting for the Predator flights away from the CIA, or any other western agency and offer it to Pakistani Army Gen. Kayani. If Pakistan wants to use these air assets in a war against the militant network, then that should be their decision to make, not ours.
Last Friday, President Obama basically embraced the British plan for negotiating with the Taliban, which basically entails bribing them into “reconciliation” (the latest euphemism for ceasing hostilities). The process is focused on finding the reconcilables and separating them from the unreconcilables, in order to totally eliminate the uncooperative groups. The American counter-insurgency tactics rely on proxy forces to carry-out the violent prodding that is meant to discover the true natures of the targeted leaders, the “tickling” referred to by previous CIA captain Michael Hayden. It is the underhanded spy agency tactics chosen by the previous administration which have prolonged both the Iraq and the Afghan wars; why should the goons they placed in charge now be trusted to run the new front in Pakistan? This can no longer be the CIA’s war.
Asia Times senior correspondent Syed Saleem Shahzad gives the following assessment of the British plan of divide, buy and conquer, and the resultant US/NATO “split” over the issue:
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The process described in the video could possibly work, if the underhanded moves are stopped and Pakistan and the Western powers are on the same page. If NATO honors the “red line” commitment made by Ambassador Holbrooke, to not send NATO troops across the Durand Line and lets Pakistan call the shots for where and when American airpower will be brought to bear, then the war in Pakistan might be won, as a realistic first step towards halting Afghanistan’s downhill slide. But winning this war by anyone’s measure first requires a complete break with the Bush/Cheney policies that wrecked it.
The Taliban ruse is based on the “Al Qaida” ploy, set in stone at the beginning of the “war on terror” (which has now allegedly been downgraded). “Al Qaida” is an invention of the Bush/Cheney cabal. It never existed before 1999-2000. The bin Laden group, which has been dubbed “al Qaida” is a CIA fabrication, used as a conflict generator/force multiplier. The incident that began Bush’s terror war was also a manufactured event.
The purpose for creating this international militant army was to bring-about the “clash of civilizations. It was to serve as a self-perpetuating recruitment mechanism, funded by international trafficking in weapons and drugs. By perpetuating a false version of Islam based upon a worship of violence and jihad, then committing widespread violence, atrocities and crimes against the human race, the “Islamic” terror generator seduced thousands of young Muslim men into serving Shaitan.
May Allah guide you, Pakistan, in this hour of temptation. If you accept America’s billions to fulfill the contract of waging total war upon the Pakistani citizens of the Frontier Region then you will be selling your souls to Shaitan, while cutting your own throats. But if you choose to wage war against the “epicenter of terrorism” that you have allowed the United States to create in your western regions, then you will have no choice but to accept a gracious hand if it is offered, especially if it is overflowing with the overwhelming technological force that you will need for the task.
It’s Pakistan’s call to make.
[email protected]

this works better with videos and links: http://therearenosunglasses.wordpress.com/2009/03/29/dissecting-the-anti-pakistan-psyop/

Posted by: Peter Chamberlin | Mar 29 2009 20:35 utc | 42

Fatima@41,
Thanks for your input. I had never heard of ANP and the info you provided is very revealing. And after some thought, what you describe looks very much like "divide & rule"

Posted by: jony_b_cool | Mar 29 2009 22:41 utc | 43