Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 12, 2009
The Real Middle East Nuclear Missile Threat

Despite the 2007 National Intelligence Estimate that said Iran has no nuclear weapon program, the Obama administration is reviving the old and false claim that it has such:

U.S. officials said that although no new evidence had surfaced to undercut the findings of the 2007 estimate, there was growing consensus that it provided a misleading picture and that the country was poised to reach crucial bomb-making milestones this year.


Often overlooked in the NIE, officials said, was that Iran had not stopped its work on other crucial fronts, including missile design and uranium enrichment. Many experts contend that these are more difficult than building a bomb.

Uranium enrichment has of course a perfect civilian application and a missile program is needed if one intends to send a man into space by 2021 as Iran does.

What is always missing in these discussion though is another likely nuclear power with ballistic missiles in the Middle East.

No, I am not talking about Israel.

At the end of the 1980's Saudi Arabia bought some 120 intermediate-range ballistic missile (IRBM) from China. These were modifications of the Chinese nuclear armed DF-3A, but, the Saudis say, only for use with conventional warheads. As these missiles are quite imprecise and two tons of TNT thrown against a big city to possibly hit anywhere in it will not cause much damage, one wonders if that claim is really true.

At the same time Saudi Arabia acquired those missiles Pakistan achieved the capability to detonate a nuclear weapon.

Up to 1991 Saudi Arabia financed the Iraki nuclear program and probably also the Pakistani nuclear weapon program. It is not proven that Saudi Arabia really has nuclear warheads for its missiles, but so far it has not allowed any foreigner or the IAEA to inspect the relevant bases.Even if such inspections would be allowed, nuclear war heads made elsewhere would be hard to detect.

The existence of huge missile bases and launch areas for these missiles in Saudi Arabia is publicly known at least since 2002 when it was reported in Yediot Ahronot.

Sean O'Connor recently published new research based on satellite imagery of the bases in Saudi Arabia where these missiles are hosted.

The picture by O'Conner shows the likely range of these DF-3A missile when fired from those Saudi bases with 2 tons of deadly payload.

With a lighter than 2 tons warhead those missiles could reach half of Europe.

So why do we constantly hear of a nuclear ballistic missile threat from Iran which has neither missiles of intermediate range nor any nuclear weapon program nor financed foreign nuclear programs, while Saudi Arabia has a significant missile capacity and probably (likely) also the nuclear warheads for them?

Why is the relative free Islamic Republic seen as more dangerous than the strict Wahhabi dictatorship on the west side of the Gulf from where 9/11 was financed and staffed?

Comments

Saudi Arabia doesn’t really face any external threats that might justify their development of a nuclear deterrent. Their threats are internal, where of course all the nuclear weaponry in the world isn’t going to help.

Posted by: Peter | Feb 12 2009 19:50 utc | 1

b, when I read your caption of the ‘real’ threat I assumed you were referring only to Pakistan which has already stockpiled nuclear weapons and has the delivery systems in place to reach Western Europe. Your focus on Saudi ASrabia is an eye-opener.
But, of course, the BM defence system in the Czech Republic is supposed to protect Europe ONLY from non-existent Iranian missiles and not from existing Pakistani and Saudi ones. Brilliant strategic thinking. I wonder how much those people get paid.

Posted by: Parviz | Feb 12 2009 20:01 utc | 2

At least Sean O’Connor’s research is more convincing than the Syrian Box-on-the-Euphrates.
However, those missiles were bought a long time ago, around 20 years ago. You have to ask the question: how many are still in working order? The al-Sulayyil base is presented by O’Conner as not changing between 2003 and 2007. Sounds like these bases were built long ago, and perhaps the system is longer really functional. That would be typical in Saudi.

Posted by: Alex | Feb 12 2009 20:02 utc | 3

But Alex, is it worth the risk of ignoring the Saudi missiles? I mean, people are scared out of their pants about an Iranian threat but don’t give a damn about the possibility that the very real Saudi arsenal may still be in good working condition?

Posted by: Parviz | Feb 12 2009 20:09 utc | 4

@Parviz @2 – the “European ballistic missile defense” is solely directed against Russia.
@Alex – @3 – the majority of the missiles were installed in the mid/late 90s and (some sources say) updated with a new guidance package around 2005. They are perfectly operable for another 20 years. Scud missiles still in use around the world are much older. The base workers will mostly not be Saudi but, as usual there, foreign (Chinese) personal but with Saudis in control.
What U.S. strategic missile site changed between 2003 and 2007? Does that make the U.S. less dangerous?

Posted by: b | Feb 12 2009 20:24 utc | 5

‘real’ threat
Well ‘real’ means ‘royal’ in Spanish. So the title actually means “The Royal Middle East Nuclear Missile Threat”. This is another one of your jokes, b, isn’t it?
More seriously, b, you are not thinking how Saudi operates. They buy a load of stuff off the shelf, and then it deteriorates because it’s not maintained properly. If you look at that base at Sulayyil in Google Earth, you’ll see there’s a lot of activity at the ‘administrative centre’, and virtually nothing at the sharp end. That’s because they’re all dressed in white dishdashas drinking tea in their offices. Only one of the two ‘sharp end’ bases is still functional, the north one. The other has zero activity, and looks abandoned.
There’s also a question of who thought up the idea. Could be a prince long dead, and nobody really cares any more, except it gives employment to x number of Saudis, who can continue drawing their pay. I’m sure the Amir of Sulayyil had a lot to say about it, pork, as they say in the US.

Posted by: Alex | Feb 12 2009 20:54 utc | 6

Saudi threats!! LOL
Saudi corrupt and puppet rulers are not in position to threat anyone except Iran. Saudi puppets are controlled by US/rael unable to fly an airplane without permission from Masters. They are no threat to the West.
Main reason USrael fear Iran is because IRI leadership fight back and punch back regardless of consequence and size of enemy. USrael never fight a fair fight, they had to disarm opponent before the fight. Capable strong Iran will end USrael aggression and war crimes.
Fascist regime in Israel will use all resources including influence & control in USA to destabilize, weaken IRI because their short life existence depend on that.
Satanic state of Israel as Finkelstein called it it’s not merely an artificial state but staging ground for missives of Zionist cabal for domination and control in the world. They were instrumental in immigration policies in USA, in Wars in Middle East and incurrent financial control and fiasco. They were instrument in breaking up Yugoslavia, Soviet Union, and hard to imagine but yes to break down of USA. That is how they operate, control and divide or divide and control. Zionists are in control of financial, cultural centers of USA and they only understand force and power they have turn good people of America to sheeple…
As Hillary said USA will obliterate Iran in event of Israel-Iran conflict….
Hillary, Barak, Bill and Gorge…. They are coward and lowlife individuals who sold their soul to Zionists for personal gains otherwise they won’t put interest of Israel ahead of their own country, they will not send their young countryman fight and die for criminal fascist Israelis , they will not spend American financial resources to help war crimes by Zionist state.
All these talk about Fear of Nuclear program by Iran it’s just an excuse and ploy to fool American … continue brainwash….

Posted by: Loyal | Feb 12 2009 21:11 utc | 7

Saudi threats!! LOL
Saudi corrupt and puppet rulers are not in position to threat anyone except Iran. Saudi puppets are controlled by US/rael unable to fly an airplane without permission from Masters. They are no threat to the West.
Main reason USrael fear Iran is because IRI leadership fight back and punch back regardless of consequence and size of enemy. USrael never fight a fair fight, they had to disarm opponent before the fight. Capable strong Iran will end USrael aggression and war crimes.
Fascist regime in Israel will use all resources including influence & control in USA to destabilize, weaken IRI because their short life existence depend on that.
Satanic state of Israel as Finkelstein called it it’s not merely an artificial state but staging ground for missives of Zionist cabal for domination and control in the world. They were instrumental in immigration policies in USA, in Wars in Middle East and incurrent financial control and fiasco. They were instrument in breaking up Yugoslavia, Soviet Union, and hard to imagine but yes to break down of USA. That is how they operate, control and divide or divide and control. Zionists are in control of financial, cultural centers of USA and they only understand force and power they have turn good people of America to sheeple…
As Hillary said USA will obliterate Iran in event of Israel-Iran conflict….
Hillary, Barak, Bill and Gorge…. They are coward and lowlife individuals who sold their soul to Zionists for personal gains otherwise they won’t put interest of Israel ahead of their own country, they will not send their young countryman fight and die for criminal fascist Israelis , they will not spend American financial resources to help war crimes by Zionist state.
All these talk about Fear of Nuclear program by Iran it’s just an excuse and ploy to fool American … continue brainwash….

Posted by: Loyal | Feb 12 2009 21:25 utc | 8

I have to agree that the Saudis are both pathetic and firmly in power, so there is not much risk that any nationalist movement will ever get control over any weapons in Saudi possession.
A democratic and/or nationalist Saudi government would be a major force in the region, but instead Saudi Arabia has a royal family that likes to play dress-up.
It is hypocritical but eminently understandable that Westerners ignore any military threat the Saudis might pose.
My favorite Saudi anecdote:

Similarly, I recall when Prince Fahd bin Abdal Aziz called me to a meeting very late one evening in the early days of the 1973 war and asked me to send an urgent personal message from him to Richard Nixon informing the president that he had felt obliged to contribute a brigade of Saudi troops to the Golan front to support the Syrian offensive there, but that he had personally instructed the commander of the unit not to fire a single shot. That, Fahd told me with considerable emotion and obvious sincerity, was his solemn promise to his American friend.

These are the most pathetic people in the world and a true disgrace to their religion.

Posted by: Arnold Evans | Feb 12 2009 22:11 utc | 9

the problem with Saudi is not the weapons they possess but what they finance …

Posted by: outsider | Feb 12 2009 22:22 utc | 10

I am born and grown up in what was Yugoslavia, looking back, it was modern country with relatively high standard. With independent internal and foreign policy. And it was big problem for primarily US and German gov. Today it is just bunch of “independent states” lead by retarded tribal gangsters.
“Liberators” had come and they’ve liberated as from everything, from the future primarily. IMF, WB, EU, and variety of NGOs totally devastated whole region.
This is what they’ve done in Iraq, western predators firstly exhaust you economically, and then topple the legal government. That is what they want to do with Iran. If I were Iranian I’ll do everything possible to obtain nuclear technology. That’s is the only language that western politicians understand.

Posted by: Balkanac | Feb 12 2009 22:36 utc | 11

balkanac
that is exactly how it goes & the weaker the empire becomes the more ravenous will be its behaviour

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Feb 13 2009 0:23 utc | 12

Who might think it a good idea to smuggle a missile, even a nuclear one, into Iran to fire at Tel Aviv…?

Posted by: maff | Feb 13 2009 0:33 utc | 13

We (the US) used to rationalize our gigantic nuclear arsenal on the grounds of deterrence. We claimed deterrence was a kind of stability. Why not, on the same grounds, give a couple of nuclear weapons to Iran, to deter Israel from any foolish attempts to exploit its nuclear superiority? Obviously, Israel’s military might is a source of great instability in the ME.

Posted by: seneca | Feb 13 2009 2:08 utc | 14

b, when you say “where 9/11 was financed and staffed” you are discrediting yourself in the eyes of so many. Please man, do your homework on 911 and do read Webster Tarpley’s book “911 Synthetic terror”, David Ray Griffin’s books, do watch all these documentaries about the 911 coup d’etat, they are easy to find on peer to peer networks.

Posted by: Stephane | Feb 13 2009 8:55 utc | 15

when you say “where 9/11 was financed and staffed” you are discrediting yourself in the eyes of so many
*many*? Really?

Posted by: CluelessJoe | Feb 13 2009 10:50 utc | 16

Not so CluelessJoe wrote in response to Stephane…
when you say “where 9/11 was financed and staffed” you are discrediting yourself in the eyes of so many
*many*? Really?

Yet another case where we have the mis- use of General semantics
Back to the topic at hand…
69 Computers Missing from Nuclear Weapons Lab

The Los Alamos nuclear weapons laboratory in New Mexico is missing 69 computers, including at least a dozen that were stolen last year, a lab spokesman said. No classified information has been lost, spokesman Kevin Roark said.

Spaghetti Monster forbid…
Maybe they’re with the missing VX
Perhaps, I should post this again:
See next post…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Feb 13 2009 12:07 utc | 17

The Flexible Floor Doctrine: ( Thermal Nuclear Monarchy).

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Feb 13 2009 12:08 utc | 18

Judah Grunstein notes that the new DNI Adm Blair this week confirmed the 2007 Iran NIE.
So Obama and others disregarding it in the LAT piece linked above might be onto a clash with the intelligence community.

Posted by: b | Feb 13 2009 13:51 utc | 20

Well, I agree with Stephane.
The evidence the US government has presented in this matter is about as convincing as the evidence they presented of Iraq’s WMDs: that is to say, extraordinarily limited, cherry-picked, contradictory, and often, downright false.
I tend to agree with the opinion that the Saudis are only a threat to their own citizens — but that could change at another point in history.
Of course, there are many ways of viewing reality, of organizing our conceptual perception, and hence our response/resistance.
We can see countries as threats, or we can see non-democratic processses as threats. We can see weaponry as threats, or we can see lack of focus upon universal needs as threats. We can see pathological leaders as threats, or financial imperatives. etc, etc, etc. There are really many options.
And, we can see all of these things as opportunies instead of threats. Not that I do often; it is hard to tell the starving man, the mother who has just witnessed her children being blown to bits, that these are “opportunities”… — for spiritual growth, positive change, or anything else.

Posted by: Malooga | Feb 13 2009 15:05 utc | 21

I agree with Steph and Malooga.
*holding my hand high*
But I don’t think 9-11 was a foreign terrorist act. More than likely it was neo-con inspired and zionist execution.
‘Ats my opinion and I’m sticking by it!

Posted by: Jake | Feb 13 2009 17:09 utc | 22

Middle east Peace will never come UNTIL Iran or some other sworn enemy of Israel has nuclear weapons (Saudia Arabia doesn’t quality). Peace only comes through military stalemate and mutual fear of unacceptable losses in case of war. Right now no one has the power to inflict unacceptable losses on Israel. Hence, the Israelis have no incentive to negotiate in good faith, and actually I don’t blame them for not negotiating in good faith– were I in their shoes I wouldn’t negotiate either, given the present balance of forces.

Posted by: the exile | Feb 17 2009 18:28 utc | 23

No one has the power to inflict unacceptable losses on Israel? You are telling me that the entire Arab world could not take out a tiny little country like Israel without Iran having nukes. Everyone knows most of the muslim world hates Israel, so Pakistan could take out that tiny thing with their nukes if all muslims united. So all of you think everyone should just allow the state that sponsors more terror than any other to have the deadliest weapon in the world? It doesn’t take an intelligent person to understand that if you give two belligerent guys a gun, they are probably going to shoot each other. US and Russia came so close that it is scary to think that one misinterpreted move and none of us would be here today. Even if they don’t use it on each other, the real fear is that they will pass it along to a terrorist group and allow fundamentalists to do their dirty work. It is amazing how most of you seem to support Iran yet not dispute that their program is for weaponization. Peaceful purposes, bullshit. I can’t believe anyone would think it to be good for a radical regime with fundamentalist ties to have nuclear weapons. Also, I’ll take this “opportunity” to let Malooga know that 95% of people see weaponry as a threat. If you see them as an opportunity, that probably means you are a sick motherfucker. Oh yeah, the “Capable strong Iran” will never have a nuke, count on that. Have a nice day from the US of A

Posted by: ATLCT | Feb 26 2009 4:16 utc | 24

ATLCT-So all of you think everyone should just allow the state that sponsors more terror than any other to have the deadliest weapon in the world?
I hate to break this to ya’ man. but they already do:
Terriblist
How will you sleep at night?

Posted by: David | Feb 26 2009 4:46 utc | 25