I found Malooga’s remark not very clear what he was talking about. Perhaps he can clarify it. I didn’t pay it much attention, as its point wasn’t obvious.
I don’t hesitate to say that I think this site absolutely of the best. It is rightly run to encourage debate of a high level.I much admire your work, b.

Posted by: Alex | Feb 28 2009 22:08 utc | 4

b
it is a rich rich well here & our friend malooga knows that
i noted here some time ago that the need for this space has never been more urgent & as i have noted to you in emails – i really respect the waterfront(s) you walk – you have been committed to both passion & patience, you have welcomed intensity & have opened doors
there are some here who really want to believe that it is possible that the character of an empire can change with one man & there are thos who are unwilling to believe there has been any real change
what we all understand tho is that we are passing through the most profound crisis of capitalism has ever experience & the international situation is on a razor’s edge – for example i believe israel is capable of even greater stupidity, that pakistan could unravel within days, egypt too is capable of falling apart in a night no matter how pharonic its intentions
you perspicacity is valued beyond measure in a time when the weight is falling on top of us

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Feb 28 2009 22:25 utc | 6

The fact that someone has the ability to clearly articulate the colour smell, taste and texture of the shit in the sandwich we are being forced to eat, doesn’t necessarily mean that the person is more prescient on judging whether a new sub contains shit or spam before the first bite.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Feb 28 2009 23:50 utc | 8

b, have i told you lately how wonderful you are?

Posted by: annie | Mar 1 2009 0:53 utc | 10

2nd date, maybe.

Posted by: beq | Mar 1 2009 1:15 utc | 12

Copeland on the CinC thread (which I’m transferring to here as it’s highly relevant to this new thread):
Malooga just persists in the argument that Obama is an extension of the imperial depravity. Time will tell; but there is some chance at least that the president is slowly reworking the environment, the political environment, with a view to withdrawing from Iraq.
Thank you, Copeland, for a very sensible comment. The problem with all the cynics is that if they were President of the United States they would head blindly into WWIII. At least, as you correctly state, Obama is an ‘improvement’, and any ‘improvement’ is to be welcomed rather than automatically written off. If a new U.S. President can at the very minimum turn the doom clock back long enough to give everyone a chance to sit and ‘think’ we may avoid the Armageddon that the Neocon-Zionists have prepared for ALL of us.
AS for b’s monitoring of this fabulous Blog, the only problem appears to be his thin skin 😉
I have been described by a major Blog contributor as a “Capitalist tool … only interested in grabbing my share of consumer goods”, and my motives constantly questioned for criticizing the massive corruption and lack of ‘democracy’ in Iran. I, of all people, must have a reason for supporting rapprochement between the U.S. and Iran that isn’t motivated by personal greed. Similarly, if Malooga, r’giap and others are opposed to ANY line taken by the U.S. President I believe at least that they are being honest in their opinions and don’t simply want to encourage the Tribulations and destroy the world. So let’s debate maturely.
The key thing here is ‘honesty’. If I didn’t believe, in my short time on this Blog, that every single main contributor were completely honest in his/her opinion irrespective of the substance, I’d be outa here.
So please, my appeal to everyone on this Blog is to listen and debate but NEVER to doubt the honest motives of the contributor, and least of all the motives of our tireless b.
Sincerely yours,
Your nationalistic, anti-Imperialistic, Social-Capitalistic, anti-religion, pseudo-intellectual, alcohol-drinking (and the last is my only qualification for being on this Blog)
Parviz

Posted by: Parviz | Mar 1 2009 5:16 utc | 14

~Symptom~

Posted by: waldo | Mar 1 2009 6:54 utc | 16

@14: The problem with all the cynics is that if they were President of the United States they would head blindly into WWIII.
no, i think the problem with “the cynics” who persist in the argument that Obama is an extension of the imperial depravity is that their arguments often draw on discernible actions, while their “sensible” critics say silly things like if they were President of the United States they would head blindly into WWIII.
i appreciate your insights, Parviz, but if you value mature debate, i would suggest avoiding pointless speculation about whether Malooga as president (i’d vote for him) would cause WWIII.

Posted by: Lizard | Mar 1 2009 7:28 utc | 18

Precisely my sentiments, Chip, which Lizard misinterpreted. Maybe you express my feelings better than I can.
Obama inherited the equivalent of a nuclear economic AND political holocaust, so give the guy a break. We can deal with the “evils of Capitalism” later, that is, IF we survive the Neocon-Zionist mess long enough to be able to discuss long term remedies in the comfort of the MoA bar.
Lizard, I would fight a ‘Communist” for President anywhere in the world. You seem to forget the Communist cannibalism that occurred in the Soviet Union over a 75 year period, the Gulag, the Siberian death camps, the total bankruptcy of a nation of 300 million. China is succeeding only because it ditched the Communist model.
Capitalism is almost as bad, as we see its results today, with the people who caused the mess receiving huge bonuses and retirement guarantees. There is only one path that seems to be the lesser of all evils, and that’s the Social Democracy of Western Europe (Anglo-Saxon England excluded, except for its health care).
I complain regularly about the elitist tone of some Communist posters who belly-ache all day about EVERY nation in the world but cannot give a single example of a ‘successful’ Communist state. It’s all hypothetical nonsense, Utopian kindergarten bullshit. “Oh, wouldn’t the world be wonderful if …….” Sure, if the human genes of ambition, power, jealousy, selfishness and other human failings could be removed from humankind overnight, yes, then Communism would work. But as soon as Communists run a country they run it into the ground, nobody works because they get paid anyway, food is cheap for everyone but they have to queue for hours for bread and eggs, the Capitalist farmers are expropriated and 17 million peasants die because they don’t have “the means” to work the land.
Let’s try and improve the ‘real world’ instead of griping about those (like Obama) who are actually trying to do so.
Sorry, Lizard, if my comments seem to you immature.

Posted by: Parviz | Mar 1 2009 8:05 utc | 20

……. yes, b real, providing the ‘hard data’ is indeed ‘hard’. As Disraeli said, there are “lies, damned lies and statistics”. The notion that there is an overwhelming set of date to prove one point or another is questionable, because each ideology can produce its own ‘data’ as ‘supporting evidence’.

Posted by: Parviz | Mar 1 2009 8:38 utc | 22

b, to my thinking, is Billmon’s worthy successor in many ways, not the least of these being his highly instructive, and even clairvoyant, takes on problems I haven’t known or thought about– such as the energy picture in the former Soviet Union, derivative swaps, or the Afghan supply routes. On these many subjects I have little to contribute and much to learn. And as for the subjects that I’ve followed here for a very long time–American Evil among them–there’s little to add to what I’ve already said….
On the subject of Obama, I’m with b. Bearing in mind that there was no Obama when Billmon ran the bar, and no Obama when b took over the bar (and after he ran it for a good long while)–hell, bearing in mind that there was no Obama on my horizon just 18 months ago, and that his every move has caught me by surprise, I can only give him, and his circumstances, and his acts and words within those circumstances, the benefit of waiting and seeing. For good or ill, Obama’s every word and deed surprises me.
So the rational thing is to wait and see.
Being a rational bartender, b helps us watch the suspense of the world around us. For which, be it mentioned in passing, I am grateful.

Posted by: alabama | Mar 1 2009 12:33 utc | 24

Throughout my years of clicking through the web I have not found another site such as B’s bar, consistently offering intelligent food for thought and an educated crowd discussing the issues. Thanx to our host, and contributors like rgiap, Debs, b real, Malooga, Uncle, anna missed and Antifa, just to name a few, I have learned more about human history and psychic than in all my years of schooling. Merci bien comrades.
Politically I would categorize myself much further on the socialist side of ideas than the German SPD, and at this point would like to congratulate Hugo Chavez for threatening to nationalize the Venezuelan rice production, but still I enjoy every one of B’s columns, as he has a sense of justice I can relate to and a brilliant knack for seeing through smoke screens.

O-Team is the last, best hope of civilization?

Chip, if Obama is our best hope then good night Irene.

There is only one path that seems to be the lesser of all evils, and that’s the Social Democracy of Western Europe

Parviz, I am afraid you are dreaming. Berlusconi, Sarkozy, Blair, Balkenende, men so deep in big business’s pockets and with no qualm in invading foreign countries, the similarity to their US cousins is remarkable.
What has Europe’s style of “social” democracy given to the world? Is the percentage of GDP given as foreign aid any higher than that of the US? Have they not participated in illegal and inhumane wars of aggression over the last decades? Are they not involved up to their eyeballs in the global arms trade? Were they not complicit in extra judicial CIA renditions of their citizens who then got tortured? Are they not run by career politicians skilled in the art of talking all day while saying nothing? Are their social democratic systems ensuring that companies are not paying obscene sums to executives while the cleaners who come in at night and tidy up their offices are working $1 Euro jobs, surviving on the armutsgrenze? Are they not intrinsically based on a more or less two party system? Merkel or Steinmeier, can you see politically a significant difference? Should you, like I do, have answered the previous questions with no, then you’d arrive at a point where you see the European democracies as not the lesser evil, but part of it.

Posted by: Juan Moment | Mar 1 2009 14:36 utc | 26

especially when O-Team is the last, best hope of civilization? we only get one shot.
Meth head? that wasn’t very nice Chip. I don’t know why so may people think the O-man is the last great hope? Do they think that had McCain been (s)elected there would have been a loud “BANG” and the earth would have just disappeared?
The go-slow O-man show is more of the same shit, different pile. I can’t believe there is anyone who is actually waiting for the knock on the door and the guy standing there to say, “I’m from the government, I’m here to help.”
There is no america in the sense I grew-up believing in. For me, I see little to no hope of anything good coming from a modern nation’s government, (small town government is much more transparent and does give me hope) – because there isn’t a national government left on the planet that responds to their citizens. The governments of the world’s countries are run by greedy, manipulative people that care little for their fellow humans, but only for the corporate godheads that keep their campaign coffers full.
That said, it is also true that the citizens of the world have forgot that governments exist by the will of the people and that the people are ultimately responsible for their leaders misdeeds.
Is anyone familiar with Chaotic Theory? Chaos I have an armchair understanding of the theory and is why I feel there is an “organized” force working against humanities best interest. It isn’t organized in the sense many conspiracy kooks think, with some all-knowing leadership, but though many greedy assholes all working to achieve their personal goals. Eventually the assholes all recognize themselves, just as professional pick-pocks working a busy city street know each other. To not recognize another in the trade as a fellow grifter is to waste time targeting them, or worse yet, be taken advantage of themselves (think Dirty Rotten Scoundrels with steve martin.)
The world has got the government we deserve. And I do mean the world. The governments we watch are a bunch of petty corporate thugs fighting amongst themselves to decide who eats at the table and who gets the scraps off the floor. What they’re eating is all of us.
I find it odd that a short Malooga response to b would cause such an up-roar at the bar. Much worse is said regularly and with little response. I know my world view is dark. I don’t trust any power, electrical or human, because concentrated, either one can kill you.
I understand politics better than a post like this would suggest. I know how city hall works, I understand that we have to live in the world we have and not the world we’d like to have. But I find that the world has gone crazy, or maybe it has always been crazy and I’m just waking-up to the fact? I don’t know. I do know I didn’t give a fuck until my friends started breeding and popping out these cute kids that will eventually be living in the world we’ve screwed-up. I don’t want them feeling about me like I feel about many previous generations.
I don’t know if it was Dan of Steel or Uncle $am that liked to Edward Bernays History of propaganda but thanks and this series may help explain why I don’t trust ANYONE in government…
P.S. b you are good at running the bar. This is more of a political smorgasbord than bar, with so many spicy dishes to taste it’s surprising we don’t get more flatulence in here than we do. I love it – keep it coming. It is amazing how much this place has changed the way I think. Or at least opened me to other possibilities I hadn’t considered. A person needs to have their thinking challenged regularly to stretch it and keep it from becoming wrinkled 🙂

Posted by: David | Mar 1 2009 14:38 utc | 28

ok lets take a look.
Parviz gets profiled as a potential bourgeois because he aspires for a juster, more prosperous & less corrupt Iran. Here on this board he’s asked to forget it and just learn to deal with the mullahs & Sharia because the alternative is that the USA/Israel is either going to exploit the aspiration or simply wont let it happen.
on the other hand if Joe in Peoria is sufficiently willing to make the best of Obama that he’s not out on the boards screaming for regime-change in the USA, he’s a magical thinker.

Posted by: jony_b_cool | Mar 1 2009 17:11 utc | 30

Lizard, you’re really clutching at straws if you think that my praise of Chip referred to that his ‘Meth-Head’ epithet. I wrote 26 lines in which I expanded on Chip’s and my own comments, and you think those 26 lines referred to the single two-word insult??? I didn’t even notice the ‘meth-head’ jibe when I wrote my piece, so I think you’re playing politics here with my comments, as everyone else will also have noticed. What got into you?
jony_b_cool, thanks for your understanding, I think some people here are ‘too’ revolutionary except when it comes to maintaining the status quo in Iran. So we have bunches of ‘selective revolutionaries’ who despise dictatorships that oppose the U.S. and fully support dictatorships, no matter how evil, that oppose the U.S..
Some posters are neither logical nor consistent: If Sharia Law is so good in Iran because it keeps the people under the regime’s thumbs and prevents the slightest discourse, let alone protest, then why didn’t everyone here back the Taleban which destroyed the Twin Towers and swore eternal enmity to the U.S.A.? Why aren’t you supporting them now that they have regained the Swat valley?
Afghanistan = Too much Sharia Law, maybe? Iran = ‘not enough’ Sharia Law?
And what the fuck is Sharia Law? Can anyone, even ‘professor’ ndahi, tell me, in concrete terms, what it means before sounding off on how good it is? Should girls be whipped and doused in flames for going to school and becoming ‘independent’ of men? Should all Christians and Jews be killed on sight? (Yes, there ARE passages in the Koran that completely contradict the enlightened passages on treatment of the “the people of the Book”, and these are the passages the Wahhabi MUslims refer to when calling for the death of all ‘non-believers’).
Does Sharia Law permit the Iranian economy to be literally ‘owned’ by the Ayatollas the way that the Philippines was once ‘owned’ by the Marcoses? Does Sharia Law permit the ‘Islamic’ regime to lock up a sole brave Ministry of Justice official who publicly exposed corruption in the BILLIONS of Dollars PER AYATOLLAH and laid bare the documents in font of the Iranian TV cameras? (The TV station, and the newespaper publishing the transcript, were both closed down).
Is this what the ‘Islamic Revolution’ boils down to? = Even worse corruption than during the damned Shah’s time? (And one poster was kind enough to write a one-liner that “ndahi won the argument hands-down”).
Should the Sufi Muslims, the nicest, most harmless people in the world, be tortured and killed because they believe that Islam places Muslims directly in contact with God without the need for religious brokers (read ass-lazy Mullahs and blood-sucking Ayatollahs)? Read my posts on the latest Open Blog to see for yourselves the extraordinary oppression of my people, which some infrequent contributor to this Blog claims is what Iranians have and deserve to have because we chose a religious individual, 30 years ago, whom we mistook for Mahatma Gandhi and haven’t been able to get rid of the system since ……….
If any of you were Iranian, not one of you would tolerate or even verbally support such a religious dictatorship. You’re so blinded by your hatred of U.S. hegemony that you’ll support the Devil if necessary, as long as he’s anti-American, and all some of you (Debs) can do is attribute my criticisms to self-interest!!!
Some of the standpoints are pretty weak, if you ask me. There’s NOTHING Obama can do that would satisfy ANY of his critics.

Posted by: Parviz | Mar 1 2009 18:18 utc | 32

parviz
i am more than a little fatigued by your misreading of what i actually say. you do not know how or where i have lived & even you might be a little surprised
people who comment here cover an entire waterfront of positions & yr hpmogenising of this & that appears a crude form of rhetoric
i value your contributions but on iran & israel you are like a one trick pony. i happen to disagree with you, fundamentally & detail but i am open to learning (for exaple you speak of systematic corruption but then offer no evidence of it)
personally, you speak of communists & communism in a way i have heard since my jeunnesse & its a tired old argument – since that social experiment has never really begun – i’m surprised you don’t tell me to fo back to china
i presume that most people who comment here have arrived at their positions through struggle not in some ideated cell

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Mar 1 2009 18:56 utc | 34

i found this article from dissident voice to be intriguing. here’s a snippet:

In our addicted brainwashed state, when we are called to act, the following are our varying reactions and responses when presented with the true facts, all based on our inner fear that is usually not known or acknowledged.
* Refusal to listen or read. I will not waste my time with that crap.
* Claimed lack of time. I am too busy earning a living to keep what I have. I am doing ok right now.
* Claimed lack of intelligence. I do not have enough brains or facts to act. Those in control know far more than I do.
* Denial. Things are not really what the facts show. Our situation is not nearly as dire as you say.
* Moral Relativism. What you say is “dire” is just a matter of opinion and there are a lot of contrary opinions.
* Groundless Optimism. Things will work out alright. They always have in the past.
* Self Destruction. If it really is that bad, I will kill myself.
* Alcohol. Have a drink, fella. Relax and it will all go away and you will feel better like I do.
* God will save us. All we have to do is pray.
* Conspiracy Nut. You are a just a proponent of some crazy conspiracy theory.
* Retreat into Inner Life. Meditation, serious prayer, being in the “now,” “our survival depends only on our own inner growth,” I am saving us all by doing my inner work.
* Science will save us. I have confidence in our human ability through science to survive.
* Claim of impotence. There is nothing that I can do that will really help.
* Communism. What you propose is communistic or socialistic
* More Big Government. We need to get the government off our backs so that we can enjoy our freedom and take care of ourselves.
* Ad Hominem attack. You are a crazy grandiose zealot. What gives you the right to proclaim the truth? I too keep up with the current news. I know just as much about the truth of what s going on as you do. You are a control freak. Your proposed actions are unloving. All change must be based on love.
* That is class war. We have no classes in America. We all have the same common interests. We are all Americans, like Obama says.
* There is no alternative. For example, many will say Israel has no alternative. About the private Wall Street banks, defective that they may be, most people say they are better than any possible alternative
* Obamamania. President Obama will save us.

Posted by: Lizard | Mar 1 2009 22:07 utc | 36

As usual, I am late to catch this thread.
I just want to say that I appreciate every poster who posts here. Thank God, b has kept this site alive and available.
I am primarily a lurker, a person old enough to actually remember the Great Depression and WWII as they affected life in a small town near the West Coast of the U.S., where war in the Pacific was a bigger concern than war in Europe.
I want to hear/read a variety of opinions about today’s developments everywhere on the the globe,but especially opinions about developments in my own country, the U.S.
I admit I have some distrust of Obama, and I did not vote for him. (I was a Ralph Nader supporter). Months before November it was clear Obama would be elected and probably overwhelmingly so. Still, it was important for me to cast my own vote the way I did. Too bad we do not have a Parliamentary system or at least a fair opportunity for all to hear all points of view.
Anyway, back to Malooga. I find I tend to agree with many things he has to say. But, I also find I agree with most things others have to say. Good debate is healthy. Sharing information is healthy. Every time I come here I learn a lot of history, etc., that I either never knew or never really saw in context before. A visit here is always a learning experience.
Thank you, everyone! (and do not ban Malooga!)

Posted by: auntEm | Mar 2 2009 2:50 utc | 38

waldo, what a great commentary.
(Sorry, if by this comment, I insulted everyone else who thinks the situation is hopeless and we should jeer Obama’s efforts).
If I, as an Iranian whose nation has suffered more from U.S. misdeeds than most foreigners on this Blog, am willing to give him a chance then I don’t see why Americans are so quick to condemn his efforts.

Posted by: Parviz | Mar 2 2009 3:50 utc | 40

But boys and girls, no burning down the houses, OK?
when exactly did you start having these delusions of your own paternalism, waldo?
adults communicate w/ other adults as adults and not as an adult speaking to a child. i have no issue w/ your continual provocations at this site, infantile as they are for the most part, b/c i’m sure most readers by now have formed their own beliefs about their purpose & what they speak of your character and either find you a source of amusement or minor annoyance.
(i tend to find myself in the former category, especially given your fears now that ‘we’, the people, might be the ones destroying what passes as capitalism in this global setting. the fact is, we’re not having to do any such thing, for it is the masters & their intellectual cadre setting their own houses aflame.)
now, can tell us here at MoA, a virtual community truly international both in scope and scale, why you have such a vested interest in promoting to its patrons the worship of the president of a country that you yourself do not even reside in?

Posted by: b real | Mar 2 2009 4:04 utc | 42

#’s 39&40: bizarre synergy
But boys and girls, no burning down the houses, OK?
waldo, what a great commentary.
glug, glug, glug…

Posted by: Lizard | Mar 2 2009 4:11 utc | 44

And r’giap, Ayatollah Rafsanjani was a poor Mullah living in a simple mosque before the Revolution. He is now one of the 10 richest people in the world. And this is the system you and ‘professor’ ndahi defend so highly!

Forbes article

Millionaire Mullahs

Posted by: Parviz | Mar 2 2009 4:18 utc | 46

The negativism on this Bog by some towards Obama is really astounding. It’s almost as if some of you are fervently willing him to screw up so as to prove your point that the only salvation for the U.S. and the rest of the world is total anarchy, sequential civil wars and the complete break-down of law and order so the proletariat can take over. And r’giap, I don’t care how popular you are on this Blog, you asked me to cite a single cae of corruption in Iran, now I’m asking you to cite a simple example in 5,000 years of history when Communism has actually worked, and I mean in a real country rather than as an Utopian theory.
Better still, let’s blow up the world. Let’s start from scratch. Welcome, Planet of the Apes. Waldo, I’m with you all the way on this one.

Posted by: Parviz | Mar 2 2009 4:32 utc | 48

Parviz-
You seem angry about something none of us can do and that’s trying to change people. There are some that feel having a pollyanna view in regards to politicians is setting oneself up for a big let down. And there are those that feel being critical of such a young administration is wrong because there hasn’t been enough time to see what sort of animal it really is. Both viewpoints are valid, and both are important because the truth is hopefully somewhere in the middle ground between the two. Hopefully.
It seems odd that two poster that are furiners are so worried that americans aren’t buying into everything this new administration is promising. I do understand how you feel, and trust me, I am not near as dark and hopeless as I might seem. I actually view a challenging future as a time of opportunity for those quick on their feet and a time when some real change might be possible. But as you know from life in where you live, most people that rise to the level of national politics are corrupted. The question only remains of how corrupt and if there is the possibility the people can guide them to be less corrupt.
I understand that on the face of it, O-man seems to have an impossible job. But it isn’t a job he needs to do alone. He could fulfill his promise of bringing bottom-up change and rally the people to his side. I don’t see this as being the case though.
Nobody really seems to be taking the change thing as seriously now as they did during the election. There will be a lot of shuffling around at the top, but it’s not going to change much for those families living on the fringe.
Remember it wasn’t long ago the golden child pres-elect was on a much needed vacation in Hawaii while israel bombed the hell out of Gaza, and do you remember what his response was? Yeah, that’s change.

Posted by: David | Mar 2 2009 5:30 utc | 50

i echo david: I am not near as dark and hopeless as I might seem. I actually view a challenging future as a time of opportunity for those quick on their feet and a time when some real change might be possible.
that is where my little hope candle burns, but it’s small and you have to protect it.
no more unlimited growth without considering ecological impact is a good thing. for that to happen, the cage will be rattled hard. the question is will we tear ourselves apart like waldo imagines:
but let’s remember that ‘the masses’ are easily transformed into disorganised rabble, wailing inquisitorial religionists, riotous mobs and amoral quasi-military gangs who’ll systematically rape and butcher their fellow human beings in order to survive or dominate.
that may be a possible future, and quite a negative one for a dogged believer, but i guess it makes sense that someone who fears the unruly masses is so obsessively invested in a authoritative figure to right the wrongs of the guys who funded his ascendancy.

Posted by: Lizard | Mar 2 2009 5:52 utc | 52

Lizzard-
I think that some of the disconnect that is found between us and parviz, is the way americans tend to be more self centered and selfish (self reliant and practical?). The old world puts much more weight on solutions coming from community and groups than we do.
I forget what americans sound like to people who have lived arm to elbow amongst other humans for eons. I forget they don’t have enormous swaths of public land to get lost in and because of this are forced to get along with their numerous neighbors for more than just the practical reasons of needing to borrow tractor implements or cups of sugar.
What makes america great also makes us dangerous mavericks in the opinion of many “civilized” people of the world. 🙂 Like that’s ever stopped us.

Posted by: David | Mar 2 2009 6:13 utc | 54

fair enough. and please excuse the paranoia. it’s past my bedtime.

Posted by: Lizard | Mar 2 2009 7:26 utc | 56

Parvis@40, thanks for your kind words. I had the honour to visit your wonderfully historic country in ’76 and even though it was on the edge of revolution and there was danger in the air, many people treated me with kindness and courtesy.
Lizard and co. @ 42,44,49, way to go boys. My instant reaction was, of course, to assume my secret identity of Snarkmaster the Rhetorical Revenger and to insert exquisitely venomous barbs, but, motivated by I don’t know what, I paused and a thought came to me; ‘What would Obama do?”.
And that made me smile, really truly smile, ’cause I knew he’d use his intellect and kindness and humanity to try to find a way where dialogue could continue and progress be achieved.
So, how do we go forward?

Posted by: waldo | Mar 2 2009 9:49 utc | 58

how do we go forward?
peace

Posted by: annie | Mar 2 2009 11:27 utc | 60

Maybe it’s time we waged peace rather than war 🙂

Posted by: David | Mar 2 2009 13:39 utc | 62

remembereringgiap-
It is easy for all of us to forget how messy all forms of government are. The more people the messier the government because the more people who will complain that their particular beliefs are not properly represented.
The world is a very messy, unjust place; This is what we need to change. Or learn to live with.
If the world’s humans could only walk a mile in another persons shoes, we might at least learn to respect those who are different.
As much as I love reading the post here and imagining the possibilities of a just world, I feel the most important work is to focus on our personal communities and spend our energies helping our neighbors. Somedays I feel like I’m wasting time here in the bar when I could be out engaging my neighbors trying to make life better where I physically live. But I’m addicted to ideas and sharing them with people who can imagine a different sort of world.
I am far from being the intelligent worldly person I’d like to believe I am. I know what I know, or I think I know what I know, you know? But it seems the more I know the less I understand, or is it the more I understand the less I know?
Regardless, I am really thankful that MoA exist, and that I stumbled in here because the majority of people writing opinions have a broader world outlook than the knee-jerk nationalist who like to post at other sites. We need to continually have our beliefs questioned because otherwise we become insulated behind walls of false ideas that fall easily to an attack of logic.
Hopefully we challenge each other with arguments constructed of reason and logic rather than snarks and cheap verbal jabs. An eye for and eye leaves the whole world blind; it’s hard enough to see the world clearly through the filters we normally use, jabbing our eyes out certainly doesn’t help.
That said, I hope remembereringgiap and slothrop will still spar on occasion, sometimes their verbal battles can be fun to read from the sidelines 🙂
This is another rambling, disjointed post, sorry. To close, let me say that I’ve come to value everyone’s post even those that to me are redundant or too pollyannaish… Need to have my gray matter stretched, because at least there is one part of me getting some exercise… I’ve been stockpiling food around my gut in case times get really bad. This way I can have it with me everywhere I go, just in case mind you 🙂

Posted by: David | Mar 2 2009 15:13 utc | 64

parviz may benefit from reading r’giap circa 2005 – back to the basics

a) communist societies have never existed except perhaps in humanity’s nascence
b) communist moments have existed for very short periods of time – the commune of paris – 1917 -1919 in russia , in the yenan period in china especially during the anti japanese war, it existed for 5 minutes in hungary, another 10 minutes in certain german towns after the great war,
c) socialism in different form has existed but really much closer to social democracy with an elite
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Posted by: b real | Mar 2 2009 15:35 utc | 66