Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 12, 2009
Tail, Dog, Wag

The U.S., together with France, had authored the recent UN Gaza ceasefire resolution but then, in the evening of January 8 between 9:15pm and 10:15pm, was the only one to abstain from it. How come?

Julian Berger wrote for The Guardian on January 9:

The US change of mind came at the last moment, as a result of White House intervention following a call from Olmert. Rice was overridden and in the final vote, the US abstained. In her remarks afterwards, Rice made clear she backed the resolution, saying the US "fully supports" its goals, text and objectives.

Aluf Benn for Haaretz reported yesterday:

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice supported the UN Resolution and assisted with its formulation. Livni was in contact with Rice in an attempt to soften its wording.

At the last minute, at 3:30 A.M., Prime Minister Ehud Olmert also intervened with a desperate phone call to President George W. Bush, requesting that the United States veto the resolution. Bush refused, simply instructing Rice to abstain from the vote.

Now Olmert gives his version of that day:

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was left shame-faced after President George W. Bush ordered her to abstain in a key UN vote on the Gaza war, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said on Monday.

"She was left shamed. A resolution that she prepared and arranged, and in the end she did not vote in favour," Olmert said in a speech in the southern town of Ashkelon.


The United States, Israel's main ally, had initially been expected to voted in line with the other 14 but Rice later became the sole abstention.

"In the night between Thursday and Friday, when the secretary of state wanted to lead the vote on a ceasefire at the Security Council, we did not want her to vote in favour," Olmert said

"I said 'get me President Bush on the phone'. They said he was in the middle of giving a speech in Philadelphia. I said I didn't care. 'I need to talk to him now'. He got off the podium and spoke to me.

"I told him the United States could not vote in favour. It cannot vote in favour of such a resolution. He immediately called the secretary of state and told her not to vote in favour."

Bush was in Philadelphia on January 8 talking about the no child left behind sham between 11am and 12am. The time difference between Israel and U.S. eastern is -7 hours. If Olmert called at 3:30 that would have been 8:30pm in Washington DC, not during any official speech in Philadelphia, but right before the Security Council meeting.

So Olmert is exaggerating his influence here – he did not get Bush to interrupt a speech, but he did get him to change a UN vote..

But the essence is clear. Israel called and the U.S. president did as he was told to do.

Dog, Tail, Wag, whatever …

Comments

Protocols of the Elders of Zion is proving prescient! For the zionist jews really do control the western world, by way of jewish citizens!

Posted by: brian | Jan 12 2009 20:56 utc | 1

piss off
the very last thing the palestinians need is anti semites

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 12 2009 21:09 utc | 2

i guess the interrupted speech episode can be fact checked someway… and it may surface at the internets any moment
[meanwhile,]
the next CEO of the Greatest Terror Exporter Country says in an ABC Interview:

Iran is going to be one of our biggest challenges and as I said during the campaign we have a situation in which not only is Iran exporting terrorism through Hamas, through Hezbollah but they are pursuing a nuclear weapon that could potentially trigger a nuclear arms race.

(via Glenn Greenwald / btw, nice piece he wrote sur Obama v. the National Intelligence Estimate on Iran)

Posted by: rudolf | Jan 12 2009 21:31 utc | 3

The guy’s pretending. It’s a troll.

Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jan 12 2009 22:22 utc | 4

What kind of pressure can be applied to the President of the Unites States? Shouldn’t that be explained. Is it like chantage? Are there facts buried in computer collections that might be revealed as it was at the time of the Catholic priests’ abuses? Was it a threat of dumping the dollar o moving some nuclear loaded submarines to the Atlantic. What is pressure anyway? I am completely confused. I thought that the USA applied pressure but now it is a victim of it. Are there moles in our government, are there traitors ready to sink the country? What should I think?

Posted by: jlcg | Jan 12 2009 22:37 utc | 5

@jleg, yes US govt and people in high positions are slaves of that shity little country.Serves the US right.Israel is the superpower.The rest are to do as told.

Posted by: BurgerKing | Jan 12 2009 23:05 utc | 6

Israel admits: “No Hamas rockets were fired during ceasefire” on camera:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zfFMZ7Y-s_c

Posted by: mattes | Jan 12 2009 23:20 utc | 7

i disagree w/all of you.
here is my theory. Olmert is running an election campaign and wants to brag in a speech he can get the US to do whatever he wants. i guess it also serves some nationalistic hard on in israel to be able to say FU to the UN we can fuck over who we want when we want and nobody not eevn the prez of the US can stop us.
bush could give a shits ass about gaza there is some pr/propaganda thing being played out by painting rice as some grand benevolent writer of the ceasefire and then being ‘let down’ and i don’t buy any of it for a moment.

Posted by: annie | Jan 12 2009 23:22 utc | 8

RE: What kind of pressure can be applied to the President of the Unites States?
“Arabs may have the oil, but we have the matches.” – Ariel Sharon
* source: Friedman, Robert I. Zealots for Zion: Inside Israel’s West Bank Settlement Movement (New York, New York: Random House, 1992), 132-52. See en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ariel_Sharon
“Don’t worry about American pressure, we the Jewish people control America.” – Ariel Sharon to Shimon Peres, in the Israeli Knesset
* source: I.A.P. News, Israel Radio (in Hebrew) Kol Yisrael, October 3, 2001. See http://www.mediamonitors.net/khodr49.html
“The Israelis control the policy in the congress and the senate.” – Senator Fullbright, Chair of Senate Foreign Relations Committee: 10/07/1973 on CBS’ “Face the Nation”. See http://www.mediamonitors.net/khodr49.html
– – – –
Consider, if Israel attacks Iran, the US Army is stuck in a cul-de-sac (Iraq) inside a cul-de-sac (the Persian Gulf) at the end of a 6000+ mile supply line and under the 1000s of rockets that Iran will surely launch in retaliation. An Israeli attack with US weapons and US support will be (rightly) perceived as an attack by the US upon Iran.
What if Israel says, “Do what we want you to do or we launch the attack”? An entire American army routed in Iraq would be a watershed in history and in American power. They have our asses over a barrel, and most Americans are too stupid to realize it.
Note also that the prevailing wind patterns in the Gulf would carry any radioactive fallout from Bushehr directly over Iraq, a deliberately man-made Chernobyl-like cloud of radiation raining down on our troops.
– – – –
Another interesting fact, that the highest point source of radiation in New York City is the Israeli embassy. [See http://www.nogw.com/download/_07_il_nyc_embassy_hot_spot.pdf%5D. What? A nuke cached in NY. Wouldn’t that be a source of pressure?
Any one of these might explain why Israel appears to lead the USA around like with a ring through its nose.
And all that ignoring the influence of the Zionist lobby and media monopoly.
The USA is Israel’s bitch.

Posted by: PC | Jan 12 2009 23:29 utc | 9

$3,000,000.00 goes directly to Israel and some of it comes back into Politicians back pockets.
Did you know that most Politicks after 1 1/2 terms become multi-millionair$. Do you blame them–better than written books and getting a kick back–Hello Hillary and Obamaaa :^(

Posted by: George in Toronto | Jan 12 2009 23:30 utc | 10

Jeffrey Blankfort.
http://tinyurl.com/8svenw

Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jan 12 2009 23:34 utc | 11

Good catch, b. Damn.
That the Jews exert an influence, they themselves loudly proclaim. The Jews claim, indeed, that the fundamentals of the United States are Jewish and not Christian, and that the entire history of this country should be re-written to make proper acknowledgment of the prior glory due to Judah. If the question of influence rested entirely on the Jewish claim, there would be no occasion for doubt. But it is kindness to hold them to the facts; it is also more clearly explanatory of the conditions in our country.

Posted by: Henry Ford | Jan 12 2009 23:40 utc | 12

Crafty devils.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 12 2009 23:40 utc | 13

~.23% of the world’s population is Jewish. Many Jews are not Zionist and even those who consider themselves Zionist don’t approve of the current policies.
It’s more like flea bites tail which then causes dog to jump.

Posted by: biklett | Jan 12 2009 23:45 utc | 14

can we cut w/the ‘the jews’ meme
pllllease

Posted by: annie | Jan 12 2009 23:53 utc | 15

Can we cut w/the ‘the jews’ meme
Annie, what would you suggest? I’m reminded of the Woody Allen joke about standing at the bus stop and some guy saying to him ‘when’s the next bus due’ and Woody says ‘how did he know i was Jewish?’

Posted by: theodor | Jan 13 2009 0:23 utc | 16

annie: what’s the “jews meme”?
Does that mean we can’t talk about Jews? They can label themselves as such, but us Goys can’t use the word?
Since we’re talking about the racist policies of the Jews-only state of Israel, I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with your “meme” comment.
Maybe if they’d get off their “chosen people” racist supremacist BS, they wouldn’t be a target of criticism. Really, Israel is the biggest source of anti-Semitism today. They’re hated not becuase they’re Jews, but because they’re assholes.
Nearly as many Jews live in the States as in Israel. Here, they don’t have to worry about rocket attacks, not having stolen and occupied anyone else’s land.
The “Jews meme” is the entire source of the problem in the Middle East today. If the Jewish occupants of Palestine would treat the non-Jews as equals with human rights, an entire slew of wars would have been avoided.
We can cut with the “Jews meme” when Israel is truly a democratic and open society, for Christians and Muslims as well as for Jews. Otherwise, their social model is as illegitimate as those of the masterminds of the “Aryan race”.
Besides, the European settlers in Israel are not Jews in a racial sense, they are the descendants of the Khazars, European converts. They have no valid claim to the Palestine.
“I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the Synagogue of Satan.” (Revelation 2:9) — JESUS, a Jew

Posted by: PC | Jan 13 2009 0:30 utc | 17

again the bombing is intensifying tonight – these motherfuckers – they clearly want to extinguish the palestinian people & laugh at the worlf while they are doing it
the culture that thatcher & reagan brought to us is meeting its logical conclusion in a mean & emittered nation taking out its hate not only on a people & incidentally on a group, a group – hamas – for fucks sake – it does not even possess the organisational stamina of hezbollah but tonight they are fighting fiercely
all the foundation myths of israel are being turned on their head – it is hamas who is david fighting against goiliath, it is the palestinians who have had geographical imperatives, ghettoisations, adrministrative decrees, the concentration camps in the negev desert , the extrajudicial murder soft pedalled by the goons in the western press as ‘targeted assasination’ & outright fucking murder. mass murder
israel has shown itself incapable of governing – israel makes muslim fundamentalists appear like buddha – in their dangerous & ominous temperament

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 13 2009 0:46 utc | 18

gaza city is being attacked from four different directions. this night it is unimaginable. utterly unimaginable
tho i note the intensifying of the war is being treated very differently bu different arab media , al arabiya, al jazeera & it would seem only the iranians are prepared to show this killingaktion for what it is – the replaying of the destruction of the city & ghetto of riga by the ss

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 13 2009 1:13 utc | 19

Don’t know if anyone has posted this up recently:
The Seed Keeper
Burn our land
Burn our dreams
Pour acid onto our songs
Cover with sawdust
The hood of our massacred people
Muffle with your technology
The screams of all that is free, wild and indigenous
Destroy
Destroy
Our grass and soil
Raze to the ground
Every farm and every village
Our ancestors had built
Every tree, every home
Every book, every law
And all the equity and harmony
Flatten with your bombs
Every valley
Erase with your edicts
Our past
Our literature, our metaphor
Denude the forests
And the earth
Till no insect
No bird
No word
Can find a place to hide
Do that and more
I do not fear your tyranny
I do not despair ever
For I guard one seed
A little live seed
That I shall safeguard
And plant again.
— Palestinian poem of unknown authorship

Posted by: Ensley | Jan 13 2009 1:20 utc | 20

Two words: 911 Blackmail. I’d swear it it in a court of my peers.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jan 13 2009 1:28 utc | 21

CNN is running a story saying Israel was asking for Bush’s permission to attack Iran.

President Bush rejected several Israeli requests last year for weapons and permission for a potential airstrike inside Iran, the author of an investigative report told CNN.

This seems to suggest Israel is not dictating terms. Is this story false? Will Israel claim similarly they were indeed in control of these talks, too?

Posted by: Jeremiah | Jan 13 2009 1:41 utc | 22

behold the coming of the king of israeli, ruthless and evil, lord of zion,your zionist lord the ANTI-CHRIST.
this israeli blood bath of palestinian children is just the start, your and my children are next.

Posted by: Ray O Hope | Jan 13 2009 1:47 utc | 23

Jeremiah: Maybe Bush didn’t say yes or no to Israel’s request. Maybe he just said to them, you’re on your own if you do. Short of nukes, Iran would kick Israel’s ass, were Israel to attempt to attack, and they’d kick the ass of all the US soldiers in Iraq, under the range of Iranian missiles. And besides that, Russia has stated that an attack on Iran will be considered an attack on Russia, and Iran is China’s largest energy (natural gas) supplier. Does Israel think they can defeat Iran, Russia, and China??? Does Bush think the US can??? WWIV, anyone?

Posted by: PC | Jan 13 2009 1:47 utc | 24

So, what’s the definitive document of International Jewry’s 911 blackmail?

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 13 2009 1:56 utc | 25

replaying of the destruction of the city & ghetto of riga by the ss
Stay on topic, man.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 13 2009 1:59 utc | 26

can we cut w/the ‘the jews’ meme hear hear
I dunno what time it is in the parts of the world where some of this stuff is being posted but it must be late. I actually thought the first post was a snark and am certain that some of the later anti-jewish rather than anti-zionist comments are plants to try to paint us all as being as racist as israel is.
As for the original comment – well we can be sure that Olmert did call Bush and prolly didn’t entirely get his way, that is amerika did not veto the motion so it passed.
That left Olmert looking like the cunt he is. (sorry women! I have been using male genitalia as the denigratory naming word for a while now; so in the interests of disinterest I thought I better throw in the c word for a change)
Olmert is a proven liar -remember that is why he has to resign. But since he still wants to sell himself to Israelis as a player and his party as the men in control, he probably embroidered that bit about demanding shrub front.
That doesn’t detract an iota from the dreadful reality – that Israel managed to get amerika to change it’s vote. An act that was not in the best interests of amerika. Far worse than acccepting campaign funding from chinamen – even having a lobbyist for colombian drug slug Álvaro Uribe on staff.
Why?
Because it is clear evidence of foreign policy being determined at the behest of a foreigner.
I know many of you who live in amerika, so close to where the poison is injected into the body politic and right amongst the unceasing, ubiquitous campaign of misinformation, simply don’t believe that there will be a backlash against zionist interference in the foreseeable future.
As each day passes and the bluster from Tel Aviv becomes cruder and less ‘diplomatic’, I feel more and more certain that this issue will be the xcause of a major change in the way amerikan politics are brokered.
The attack on Gaza is one more step by the zionists up the ladder to isolation. From what I can judge most amerikans are still isolationists at heart, although they did enjoy the feeling of moral superiority that went with being the global ‘cop’ – for a time.
Since the invasion of Iraq that aura of virtue has been severely damaged if popular opinion were the sole determinant amerika’s interventionist role is in real danger of being tossed aside in favour of a return to isolationist policies of the first half of the 20th century. ie only latin american interventions allowed.
Now that won’t happen – if only because as we have discussed elsewhere, too many players have too many irons in the fire – in Africa especially. But that leaves israel particularly exposed. amerikan pols are big on the sacrificial lamb, the symbolic gesture made to make it seem that they have altered their crooked ways.
If amerika’s pols believe they have other foot holds in the ME – and a big chunk of the population is pissed off with amerika’s unquestioning support for israel, the failed zionist experiment will be cut loose in a heartbeat.
Once upon a time it would have had to have been a rethug administration to do it. A lot of jews are zionist – and a lot of jews vote dem, but since the hellspawn agreement between zionists and xtian fundies, rethugs are likely to be more hurt by a Palestinian policy change than dems.
Obama, who we mustn’t forget is a politician and is therefore constricted by the contemporary ‘common meme’ may find himself having to give israel the flick whether he and his advisors like it or not.
It would be fair to say that for the next twelve months or so the horror of Gaza will remain etched in the public consciousness.
If another high placed official in either the Bush or Obama administration gets caught actively betraying amerika at the cost of amerikan lives as Jonathon Pollard was, I reckon that it would be “all over Red Rover” for the ‘special relationship’.
Further, the zionists have become so lost in the brutality of acting out on their racist beliefs, that they can no longer grasp that most people including a large chunk of israel’s supporters are appalled by the recent actions. The massacre of Lebanese civilians by bombing population centres such as Beirut or loosing off millions of ‘cluster fuckers’ stuck in many ‘previously pro israeli’ craws – but this whole Gaza thing where an imprisoned community is daily subjected to all manner of violent and unprovoked horror, has really shaken up a large chunk of israel’s supporters.
Yet the zionists just don’t seem to get it.
I’m sure that they will come up with something even worse during obama’s first term. Maybe some attacks on west bank villages that israeli property developers, already hurting from the financial meltdown, are desperate to grab and make fast money out of.
Another massacre will extend the window of no opportunity – when amerikan zionists cannot be caught in acts of betrayal out much longer than 12 months.
Of course I have no evidence to support this belief (if life were a tv show I’d call it a hunch) other than the general observation that commonly shared memes (sorry that word again) are cyclical in nature. That is what goes up must come down. These often irrational widely held suppositions are almost always subject to fashion, that is because there is little hard evidence to back up a claim such as “amerika’s destiny is irretrievably entwined with that of israel” other forces determine their viability and fashion is one of the biggest.
“Israel is a victim? That is just so last year, haven’t you been following the footage outta Gaza?”
The most sobering thought about all this is, when the worm does turn and the state of israel is no more, it will be people such as many of those here at MoA, humanists, who will be trying to get amerika and other western governments to take the zionist pricks in as refugees. Most others will be feeling too vengeful.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Jan 13 2009 2:13 utc | 27

Slothrop: RE: “Stay on topic, man.”
Why are historical analogies “off-topic”? How is the “destruction of the city & ghetto” by heavily armed, militant, racist supremacist assholes off topic?
Besides, what are you, the topic cop??? Do you have anything original to contribute, or are you just here to bust on the rest of us?
And who said anything about “International Jewry’s 911 blackmail”? The question was, “What kind of pressure can be applied to the President of the Unites States?” We’re talking about Israel, not “International Jewry”. I’m not sure why you’re trying to steer the conversation in that direction. Trolling?
The problem with Israel is not that it’s Jewish, it’s that it’s Jewish supremacist. Racism by any race, against any race, is repugnant. And so is the wholesale, state-sponsored massacre of civilians.

Posted by: PC | Jan 13 2009 2:13 utc | 28

the historical parallel is exact. this isn’t a fucking army it is a band of murderers carrying out a war of anhilation. the only historical parallel that works is that of the marauding battallions who wiped eastern europe clean of communists, jews, gypsies
i don’t think i have ever felt such disgust
what marks all war is its inhumanity
what marks the war of fascists is the perversity of its inhumanity
slothrop, tonight gaza is awash with blood while the city is being shelled & you play these senseless games
do you not feel anything for people – arte we all abstractions to you
because it seems as if the deaths of afghanis, of iraqis, of lebanese, of palestinians are complete abstractions to you

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 13 2009 2:37 utc | 29

Debs is dead: Just curious. You commented on what you perceived as “anti-jewish rather than anti-zionist” diatribe, but then you comment that, “zionists have become so lost in the brutality of acting out on their racist beliefs”, so I’m not clear what distinction you’re drawing between Judaism and Zionism, and why you consider anti-Zionist comments as racist. Zionist is not a race, it’s a racist ideology.
If we’re talking about white supremacism, we’re talking about white people. Not all of them, obviously, just the racial supremacists.
Did we fight Nazi Germany because they were Germans, or because there were Nazis? Nazis are gone, except possibly as a lunatic fringe, or agent provocateurs, or staged “anti-Semitic” hoax crimes. Germans, there are plenty of them, doing well and in partnership in many ways with the USA. We fought Naziism and didn’t annihilate the Germans, therefore we can talk about the annihilation of Zionism without considering the annihilation of “Jews”.
Anyway, it’s the Dispensationalist Rapture “meme” (since you seem to like that word) that proclaims the destruction of the Jews, along with anyone else not accepting of their warrior-Christ. Is Fundamentalist Christianity anti-Semitic?
Iranian President Ahmedinijad is widely misquoted as calling for Israel to be wiped off the map. In fact, what he said was Zionism will be erased, as a regime, as was that of the Shah’s Iran, of Nazi Germany, Communist Russia. Those nations all remain, their people still exist. The wars the US waged upon Germany and the USSR were against governments, not races of people. Why then can we not envisage an era beyond Zionist government in Israel?
Does Iran’s President Want Israel Wiped Off The Map?
Call it Is-ra-el, or Falestine, or something else. What of it? Give equal human rights and property rights to all inhabitants – Jewish, Christian, Muslim – and to the refugees of the Nakba and their descendants, regardless of race or religion. And try the war criminals, of whichever faction; none are above the law.
If only Israel were to honor UN Resolution 242. What happened to Iraq when Saddam defied the UN??? Now today the Arab nations are willing to recognize Israel as a legitimate nation if it will withdraw to the internationally recognized 1967 borders, which Israel refuses to do. As it refuses to stop the expansion of illegal settlements.
Anyway, if you thought it was late here, it’s not. Nor am I a plant. Or an anti-Semite. I could care less about “Jews” one way or the other, as long as they do unto me as they expect me to do unto them, each one, individually.
It was not my idea to establish a nation for one ethnicity on the lands of another. And I don’t like paying for it.
Peace.

Posted by: PC | Jan 13 2009 2:46 utc | 30

Hey, I’m just noting how quickly a call to Bush is transmuted here into Jewish Domination of the World.
BTW. It was b who transformed the Guardian piece into a proof of “tail wag dog.” heh.
And there is not a more obvious paradigm poseur chauvinism than the one rented by the “USuk” thesis. And “Israel” controls “Amerika” (the german spelling connotes domination to anglophones and the kafka k as subject of domination.heh) so, …well there you go.
It’s vulgar batshit crazy, that’s for sure.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 13 2009 2:47 utc | 31

the image this morning of the shellling & the call to prayer is explosive & it will remain explosive for a long time to come
tonight israel has earned the hatred of the world & as worthy of that hate as any other bloody tyranny

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 13 2009 2:48 utc | 32

There’s a difference between condemning Israel’s barbarism and the leaps into invective flirtations w/ godterms of “zionist tail wag dog.”
It’s a bit of drag for jews that as marx said, they saw their idealism expropriated from them and perfected by euro-christians, and the jews were left to practice the application of perfected christianity. A dirty, thankless job.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 13 2009 2:57 utc | 33

sorry for the cut & paste but….
Israel Is Losing This War
by Uri Avnery
NEARLY SEVENTY YEARS ago, in the course of World War II, a heinous crime was committed in the city of Leningrad. For more than a thousand days, a gang of extremists called “the Red Army” held the millions of the town’s inhabitants hostage and provoked retaliation from the German Wehrmacht from inside the population centers. The Germans had no alternative but to bomb and shell the population and to impose a total blockade, which caused the death of hundreds of thousands.
Some time before that, a similar crime was committed in England. The Churchill gang hid among the population of London, misusing the millions of citizens as a human shield. The Germans were compelled to send their Luftwaffe and reluctantly reduce the city to ruins. They called it the Blitz.
This is the description that would now appear in the history books – if the Germans had won the war.
Absurd? No more than the daily descriptions in our media, which are being repeated ad nauseam: the Hamas terrorists use the inhabitants of Gaza as “hostages” and exploit the women and children as “human shields”, they leave us no alternative but to carry out massive bombardments, in which, to our deep sorrow, thousands of women, children and unarmed men are killed and injured.
IN THIS WAR, as in any modern war, propaganda plays a major role. The disparity between the forces, between the Israeli army – with its airplanes, gunships, drones, warships, artillery and tanks – and the few thousand lightly armed Hamas fighters, is one to a thousand, perhaps one to a million. In the political arena the gap between them is even wider. But in the propaganda war, the gap is almost infinite.
Almost all the Western media initially repeated the official Israeli propaganda line. They almost entirely ignored the Palestinian side of the story, not to mention the daily demonstrations of the Israeli peace camp. The rationale of the Israeli government (“The state must defend its citizens against the Qassam rockets”) has been accepted as the whole truth. The view from the other side, that the Qassams are a retaliation for the siege that starves the one and a half million inhabitants of the Gaza Strip, was not mentioned at all.
Only when the horrible scenes from Gaza started to appear on Western TV screens, did world public opinion gradually begin to change.
True, Western and Israeli TV channels showed only a tiny fraction of the dreadful events that appear 24 hours every day on Aljazeera’s Arabic channel, but one picture of a dead baby in the arms of its terrified father is more powerful than a thousand elegantly constructed sentences from the Israeli army spokesman. And that is what is decisive, in the end.
War – every war – is the realm of lies. Whether called propaganda or psychological warfare, everybody accepts that it is right to lie for one’s country. Anyone who speaks the truth runs the risk of being branded a traitor.
The trouble is that propaganda is most convincing for the propagandist himself. And after you convince yourself that a lie is the truth and falsification reality, you can no longer make rational decisions.
An example of this process surrounds the most shocking atrocity of this war so far: the shelling of the UN Fakhura school in Jabaliya refugee camp.
Immediately after the incident became known throughout the world, the army “revealed” that Hamas fighters had been firing mortars from near the school entrance. As proof they released an aerial photo which indeed showed the school and the mortar. But within a short time the official army liar had to admit that the photo was more than a year old. In brief: a falsification.
Later the official liar claimed that “our soldiers were shot at from inside the school”. Barely a day passed before the army had to admit to UN personnel that that was a lie, too. Nobody had shot from inside the school, no Hamas fighters were inside the school, which was full of terrified refugees.
But the admission made hardly any difference anymore. By that time, the Israeli public was completely convinced that “they shot from inside the school”, and TV announcers stated this as a simple fact.
So it went with the other atrocities. Every baby metamorphosed, in the act of dying, into a Hamas terrorist. Every bombed mosque instantly became a Hamas base, every apartment building an arms cache, every school a terror command post, every civilian government building a “symbol of Hamas rule”. Thus the Israeli army retained its purity as the “most moral army in the world”.
THE TRUTH is that the atrocities are a direct result of the war plan. This reflects the personality of Ehud Barak – a man whose way of thinking and actions are clear evidence of what is called “moral insanity”, a sociopathic disorder.
The real aim (apart from gaining seats in the coming elections) is to terminate the rule of Hamas in the Gaza Strip. In the imagination of the planners, Hamas is an invader which has gained control of a foreign country. The reality is, of course, entirely different.
The Hamas movement won the majority of the votes in the eminently democratic elections that took place in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip. It won because the Palestinians had come to the conclusion that Fatah’s peaceful approach had gained precisely nothing from Israel – neither a freeze of the settlements, nor release of the prisoners, nor any significant steps toward ending the occupation and creating the Palestinian state. Hamas is deeply rooted in the population – not only as a resistance movement fighting the foreign occupier, like the Irgun and the Stern Group in the past – but also as a political and religious body that provides social, educational and medical services.
From the point of view of the population, the Hamas fighters are not a foreign body, but the sons of every family in the Strip and the other Palestinian regions. They do not “hide behind the population”, the population views them as their only defenders.
Therefore, the whole operation is based on erroneous assumptions. Turning life into living hell does not cause the population to rise up against Hamas, but on the contrary, it unites behind Hamas and reinforces its determination not to surrender. The population of Leningrad did not rise up against Stalin, any more than the Londoners rose up against Churchill.
He who gives the order for such a war with such methods in a densely populated area knows that it will cause dreadful slaughter of civilians. Apparently that did not touch him. Or he believed that “they will change their ways” and “it will sear their consciousness”, so that in future they will not dare to resist Israel.
A top priority for the planners was the need to minimize casualties among the soldiers, knowing that the mood of a large part of the pro-war public would change if reports of such casualties came in. That is what happened in Lebanon Wars I and II.
This consideration played an especially important role because the entire war is a part of the election campaign. Ehud Barak, who gained in the polls in the first days of the war, knew that his ratings would collapse if pictures of dead soldiers filled the TV screens.
Therefore, a new doctrine was applied: to avoid losses among our soldiers by the total destruction of everything in their path. The planners were not only ready to kill 80 Palestinians to save one Israeli soldier, as has happened, but also 800. The avoidance of casualties on our side is the overriding commandment, which is causing record numbers of civilian casualties on the other side.
That means the conscious choice of an especially cruel kind of warfare – and that has been its Achilles heel.
A person without imagination, like Barak (his election slogan: “Not a Nice Guy, but a Leader”) cannot imagine how decent people around the world react to actions like the killing of whole extended families, the destruction of houses over the heads of their inhabitants, the rows of boys and girls in white shrouds ready for burial, the reports about people bleeding to death over days because ambulances are not allowed to reach them, the killing of doctors and medics on their way to save lives, the killing of UN drivers bringing in food. The pictures of the hospitals, with the dead, the dying and the injured lying together on the floor for lack of space, have shocked the world. No argument has any force next to an image of a wounded little girl lying on the floor, twisting with pain and crying out: “Mama! Mama!”
The planners thought that they could stop the world from seeing these images by forcibly preventing press coverage. The Israeli journalists, to their shame, agreed to be satisfied with the reports and photos provided by the Army Spokesman, as if they were authentic news, while they themselves remained miles away from the events. Foreign journalists were not allowed in either, until they protested and were taken for quick tours in selected and supervised groups. But in a modern war, such a sterile manufactured view cannot completely exclude all others – the cameras are inside the strip, in the middle of the hell, and cannot be controlled. Aljazeera broadcasts the pictures around the clock and reaches every home.
THE BATTLE for the TV screen is one of the decisive battles of the war.
Hundreds of millions of Arabs from Mauritania to Iraq, more than a billion Muslims from Nigeria to Indonesia see the pictures and are horrified. This has a strong impact on the war. Many of the viewers see the rulers of Egypt, Jordan and the Palestinian Authority as collaborators with Israel in carrying out these atrocities against their Palestinian brothers.
The security services of the Arab regimes are registering a dangerous ferment among the peoples. Hosny Mubarak, the most exposed Arab leader because of his closing of the Rafah crossing in the face of terrified refugees, started to pressure the decision-makers in Washington, who until that time had blocked all calls for a cease-fire. These began to understand the menace to vital American interests in the Arab world and suddenly changed their attitude – causing consternation among the complacent Israeli diplomats.
People with moral insanity cannot really understand the motives of normal people and must guess their reactions. “How many divisions has the Pope?” Stalin sneered. “How many divisions have people of conscience?” Ehud Barak may well be asking.
As it turns out, they do have some. Not numerous. Not very quick to react. Not very strong and organized. But at a certain moment, when the atrocities overflow and masses of protesters come together, that can decide a war.
THE FAILURE to grasp the nature of Hamas has caused a failure to grasp the predictable results. Not only is Israel unable to win the war, Hamas cannot lose it.
Even if the Israeli army were to succeed in killing every Hamas fighter to the last man, even then Hamas would win. The Hamas fighters would be seen as the paragons of the Arab nation, the heroes of the Palestinian people, models for emulation by every youngster in the Arab world. The West Bank would fall into the hands of Hamas like a ripe fruit, Fatah would drown in a sea of contempt, the Arab regimes would be threatened with collapse.
If the war ends with Hamas still standing, bloodied but unvanquished, in face of the mighty Israeli military machine, it will look like a fantastic victory, a victory of mind over matter.
What will be seared into the consciousness of the world will be the image of Israel as a blood-stained monster, ready at any moment to commit war crimes and not prepared to abide by any moral restraints. This will have severe consequences for our long-term future, our standing in the world, our chance of achieving peace and quiet.
In the end, this war is a crime against ourselves too, a crime against the State of Israel.
© 2009 The Progressive

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 13 2009 2:59 utc | 34

USUK media does seem reluctant to report the horror in Palestine.
Of course they are.
Meanwhile, here’s Avneri.
The Blood-Stained Monster Enters Gaza
A person without imagination, like Barak (his election slogan: “Not a Nice Guy, but a Leader”) cannot imagine how decent people around the world react to actions like the killing of whole extended families, the destruction of houses over the heads of their inhabitants, the rows of boys and girls in white shrouds ready for burial, the reports about people bleeding to death over days because ambulances are not allowed to reach them, the killing of doctors and medics on their way to save lives, the killing of UN drivers bringing in food. The pictures of the hospitals, with the dead, the dying and the injured lying together on the floor for lack of space, have shocked the world…
The planners thought that they could stop the world from seeing these images by forcibly preventing press coverage. The Israeli journalists, to their shame, agreed to be satisfied with the reports and photos provided by the Army Spokesman, as if they were authentic news, while they themselves remained miles away from the events. Foreign journalists were not allowed in either, until they protested and were taken for quick tours in selected and supervised groups. But in a modern war, such a sterile manufactured view cannot completely exclude all others – the cameras are inside the strip, in the middle of the hell, and cannot be controlled. Aljazeera broadcasts the pictures around the clock and reaches every home.
http://tinyurl.com/8pjx5f

Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jan 13 2009 3:01 utc | 35

But, the courage of the gazans is terrifying.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 13 2009 3:02 utc | 36

slothrop: Please knock it off. No one is talking about “Jewish Domination of the World”. Where the hell do you come up with that? Again, we’re talking about Israel’s “special relationship” with the USA, of which there is greater evidence than a supposed phone call from Olmert to Bush.
Anyway, it was Israeli war criminal Ariel Sharon who made the comment that Jews control America, as I’ve already commented above. That does not mean all Jews are in on some big conspiracy. It means that Jewish supporters of Israel have an inordinate influence in the policies of the US government.
The real issue, as I see it, is not the insidious influence of some nefarious race, but of meddling in our domestic affairs by a foreign nation. That there are Jews like Jonathan Pollard who have sold out the US for Israel does not mean all Jews are traitors. All chihuahuas are dogs; all dogs are not chihuahuas. Check your logic.
In regard to Israeli influence in US politics, see Dual Citizenship — Should we be worried? Do some homework, see how many of these people were behind the lies that took the US to Iraq.
Again, the issue is not that they’re Jews, but that they’re citizens of a foreign state.
In regard to 911, there is a lot of evidence linking Israel to these events. See:
Note again, we’re talking about the USA and Israel, not “international Jewry” or “Jewish Domination of the World”. Are you trying to instigate something?
Maybe I’m slow. Is this what annie was talking about when she complained about the “Jews meme”? Speaking of Jews (Jewish people, whatever) categorically, rather than analyzing the historically specific actors and actions making history today.
Please, stop trying to make race the issue. It’s racism, dummy.

Posted by: PC | Jan 13 2009 3:15 utc | 37

Sorry, that last post, the latter link. Maybe it is getting late. Didn’t get the HTML right. Should’ve looked like:
– – – –
In regard to 911, there is a lot of evidence linking Israel to these events. See:
A GOOD SUMMATION OF THE CASE FOR US/ISRAEL INVOLVEMENT IN 9-11
Note again, …
Sorry ’bout that, and thanks for the stimulating discourse. Good night.

Posted by: PC | Jan 13 2009 3:18 utc | 38

Those who call for restraint on the Jewish versus zionist comments seem not to realize that this is the chickens coming home to roost after years and years of Israeli propaganda equating any criticism of Israel as anti-semitic. Very few Jews stood against that stance, or if they did they did not make their voices heard.
Now, many people that have been thus branded as anti-semites (and suffered the consequences – at least in academia) because of outspoken criticisms of Israeli land grabs feel less inclined to parse the precise difference. A sense of f… them is more realistic. This is especially the case when people like Jim Kunstler ( whose ethnicity did not concern me while enjoying his columns) now spends half his time defending the Israeli massacres and still calling critics anti-semitic. I was shocked : is Kunstler a zionist who has hidden it for years, or is he speaking as a jew?

Posted by: Fred | Jan 13 2009 3:20 utc | 39

I think you missed reading some things here, pc.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 13 2009 3:23 utc | 40

Fixing another busted link:
Dual Citizenship — Should we be worried?

Posted by: PC | Jan 13 2009 3:25 utc | 41

slothrop: Such as..?

Posted by: PC | Jan 13 2009 3:27 utc | 42

After looking at your conspiracy theory link, I must apologize for responding to you at all.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 13 2009 3:32 utc | 43

Lol a few others beat me to avnery’s great post.
@P.C. For some reason or another you seem to have gotten the wrong end of the stick. The point that most opposition to Israel is based upon opposition to zionism not opposition to Judaism or Jews is precisely the point i was trying to make.
When I wrote that “zionists have become so lost in the brutality of acting out on their racist beliefs” I meant exactly what I wrote. That zionism is a racist philosophy and as the israelis act out their zionist fantasies, they have become so lost in their twisted worldview they can’t see that others who may once have supported israel, do not share that racist viewpoint. In fact many of those former spruikers for israel are conflicted by this ugly manifestation of ethnocentricity and genocide. As in the post I made in another thread post #57.
That doesn’t apply to myself however. For what it is worth I have opposed the ersatz nation of israel pretty much since my ass began pointing downwards.
Probably for the same reasons as most others. israel is an exercise in colonialism, one that can only exist by depriving the indigenous people of the Jordan Valley. Plus that basing citizenship rights including electoral rights on ethnicity is plainly racist and therefore wrong.
I just threw a few dollars at an xtian charity something I never normally do, especially one that runs that ‘child sponsorship’ scam. This mob TearFund have been advertising on TV in NZ that they are providing relief to Palestinian families trapped in Gaza.
I dunno how they are doing it, or if other countries particularly amerika have charities providing aid to the gazaains. I would have preferred to give money directly to Hamas but it seems alla that post 911 UN treaty GWOT bullshit with proscribed groups etc, it is even illegal for NZers to give money to Hamas.
Another islamic charity would have been better on reflection but they may have a tougher time getting resources into Gaza.
As far as I can tell, tearfund are legit. About as legit as any xtian charity which is prolly not great, but they’re about the only game in town apart from red crescent/cross who are prolly too caught up in legalese to be able to provide direct assistance to the average Gazaain family at the moment.
When I researched tear fund – or tried to, all I could really find was this piece of garbage:

My family has supported a little girl through Tearfund for a decade or so and I have flown Tearfund’s flag and donated to it in various ways over the years. No more, however. I redirected our sponsorship from Tearfund to another Christian group which, I am told, will be able to continue to support our child in South America. I am grateful to Tearfund for facilitating my request. I would have hated to abandon our sponsored child, but as Tearfund now presents itself, I have lost heart to support it. I had no desire to go down this path but felt I had no choice, because of both the Desmond Tutu [right, photo from Tearfund’s site] and Cliff Richard affairs but also because of what they represent more broadly. And Tearfund does not appear to understand.
What exactly is my problem? Okay, so Desmond Tutu is one of the most vocal gay rights activists on the globe today! He did not speak about homosexuality at Tearfund’s event, but concentrated upon encouraging the church to fight poverty. Having just spent a week or so in Uganda, where some horrific instances of poverty came very close to home, I could not agree more.
However, there is far more at stake here than simple issues of joining hands to fight poverty. If Tutu were, say, a leading figure in cutting-edge responses to poverty but also a rabid racist (or publicly affirmative of some other immoral activity or belief system), would Tearfund have made the same judgment call? Would it have agreed to set the racism issue to one side and concentrate upon common ground, i.e. concern for the poor? I think not, and rightly so, because it would have known that it was tacitly condoning – or at least accepting – completely unacceptable, nonChristian views. I think the same holds true here.

That was a deal seal for me. If the angles are trying to poach charity donors by saying tear fund are too radical, are a bunch of gay loving freckle punchers then tear fund must be OK.
Probably there are local charities around the world which are trying to provide aid to the people in gaza. If so use them – but if not, this tearfund mob seem ok – for xtians.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Jan 13 2009 3:58 utc | 44

I’ll note also a grotesque silence about this slaughter from such viciously hip lefty blogs as eschaton and crooks & liars. Really gutless fuckheads, imo.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 13 2009 4:00 utc | 45

about the CNN piece –
That is an exact echo of that NYT piece which screamed “bogus” all over it. My take on this is that Israel is about to hit Iran and with the world being completely batshit over Gaza Bush is furiously backpedalling so he won’t be perceived as having authorized it. But he full well knows about it.
fuck fuck fuck fuck can one of these bastards just one get tried for war crimes?
has anyone but me noticed that israel, the us, the palestinians, egypt and lebanon at the least are no longer even pretending to act in the interests of their own peoples? have they all been hijkacked??? I just CAN’T STAND THIS THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THEY WILL INVADE GAZA CITY WITH OUT ANY RESTRAINT — THIS IS COMPLETELY INSANE.

Posted by: bea | Jan 13 2009 4:00 utc | 46

Will Obama be inhibited by his desire to maintain a working majority from making the necessary changes to his approach to the Middle East? The presence of Hillary and Rahm in his cabinet are the obvious first obstacles. He will only be able to act on a moral imperative if he first removes them.

Posted by: Robert J Molineaux | Jan 13 2009 4:13 utc | 47

Roll on the economic collapse of Amerika! How will Israel acquire WMD’s then? Don’t judge a man by the cut of his cloth – judge him by the company he keeps. Amerika + Israel = Siamese Twins. Not conjoined YET – but watch this space!

Posted by: JS | Jan 13 2009 4:15 utc | 48

Past is prologue to any future, particularly in a civilization with the postmodern luxury to renounce history. So, Molineeaux, my two bits is we know w/ great certainty that O’s presidency is abjectly a failure. He seems almost to be the final symptom of the triumph of system over agency.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 13 2009 4:21 utc | 49

Clinton was widely denounced in the American media for two transgressions against zionist propriety: when she called for the creation of a Palestinian state and when she refused to walk out during a speech by Arafat’s wife, who committed the unpardonable sin against the image of jewish idealsm by accusing Israel of poisoning Palestinian children by polluting their drinking water.
Understandable in an ambitious USUK politician, she has since taken great pains to make amends for her terrible faux pas, grabbing ankle at every opportunity, and surrounding herself with reassuring consultants, many of them, of course, veterans of her husband’s administration.
Nevertheless, the Podhoretz/Krauthammer zio wing distrust her, and imo, they are probably right to do so. Time will tell. Fascinating six months ahead of us.

Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jan 13 2009 4:41 utc | 50

According to this morning’s Independent (to be treated with caution as it usually has a fervent zionist bent) the israeli cabinet has split over the next step:
Israeli cabinet divided over fresh Gaza surge
Air strikes are halved but Palestinian death toll still climbs to 900

Meanwhile there were reports of a split within the Israeli cabinet with claims that Tzipi Livni, the Foreign Minister, and Ehud Barak, the Defence Minister, were pressing for an early end to the offensive while Ehud Olmert, Prime Minister, wanted it to continue.
Mr Olmert, who resigned as head of the Kadima party in September following corruption allegations, is said to be planning to present his case to a cabinet forum where he enjoys support.
Ms Livni, the Kadima candidate in the elections on 10 February, has indicated publicly that she is strongly opposed to any peace agreement involving Hamas. She is said to favour, instead, a unilateral halt to the offensive, in effect challenging Hamas to halt the rocket fire or face a renewed onslaught on Gaza.
Mr Barak, the Labour Party’s candidate in the election, on the other hand, is said to prefer a ceasefire indirectly agreed with Hamas through mediation by Egyptians and is said to have been privately critical that not enough was being done at peace talks in Cairo.
Ben Caspit, one of Israel’s leading newspaper commentators, reported “some sources” as claiming that Mr Olmert was seeking to prolong the war in order to postpone the elections.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Jan 13 2009 5:29 utc | 51

I am half Jewish. One half is keen to the idea’s of those who hate Jews for what has happened, the other half is a jerk.
But please, bare with me here.
I think that what America needs to understand is that you often sell yourselves short way too often. You could overthrow your government, but where would you all end up? Right back where you started, more revolutions, more civil dissent and the spilling of each others blood on your God given land.
America is not controlled by Jews, you are simply given advice.
If many intelligent and caring Jews did not help you, America would fall and you all would have no one to blame but yourselves.
Soon the Muslim lands will be cutting off oil to America (with Russia’s help, of course), then what!?
We are only trying to secure America’s future and protect our own lives from radical Muslim terrorists who will try to overthrow their own governments in the years to come. This would be a much greator crime. Besides, Muslims kill each other all the time, even when fathers burn their daughters alive for not simply wearing the proper attire.
Yes, Israel has been getting a bad rap the last couple of day’s, but that is the burden we must all carry in doing what God knows is right. Satan is blinding many, but remember that Jesus smashed market tables too. Sometimes rage is good if the end result makes us all a better people.

Posted by: Jon Brown | Jan 13 2009 8:31 utc | 52

Whew, fireworks!
Comments #1 & 13 are outright racist and suceeded in their goal of derailing any intelligent discourse.
As far as b’s post, my take is closest to annie’s, although not identical: I see Olmert’s statement as fulfilling the same function as Bush’s in calling the largest protests in the history of the world before he invaded Iraq, “a focus group.” The aim is to completely demoralize any growing opposition. The stuff with Rice is just theatre: agendas have to be pushed along at the consequence of reputation, which can be rebuilt later to the tune of $5M advances for writing memoirs. Rice will never be the “first Black President,” anyway.
As to rehashing Mearsheimer/Walt redux, but substituting emotion for evidence, here is my quick take: Zionists (I believe the proper term for what we are discussing) have vastly disproportionate but not completely dispositive influence on US government policies.
I find myself agreeing when slothrop opines pithily about Obama:
“He seems almost to be the final symptom of the triumph of system over agency.”
Avnery writes:

This consideration played an especially important role because the entire war is a part of the election campaign. Ehud Barak, who gained in the polls in the first days of the war, knew that his ratings would collapse if pictures of dead soldiers filled the TV screens.

Again, this canard raises its head. More properly, Avnery should state that the war is influencing the election campaign. But, by the way he puts it, Avnery is implying that in Israel this month, agency is triumphing over system. How can he claim that a war which, admittedly, was planned two years ago is just “part of the election campaign?” Did Israel’s military undertake an invasion to help one candidate, and if so, which one? Do all of Israel’s military leaders support that candidate? Is Israel’s military leadership prepared to damage its reputation, as it did in Lebanon, in order to throw an election? These questions (and many others) are begged by the election theorist claimants and, by right, aught to be addressed by them. Or, more likely, is Avnery — perhaps with the best of intentions — seeking to diminish, or even cover-up, the Spartan militarism upon which modern Israel rests?
The fact that an Israeli government spokesman on NPR asserted today that it would be “unseemly” to carry on a slaughter while the new Imperial Manager was being sworn in, and that the operation would be over by then, certainly indicates that the perimeters of the US election, and the opportunities posed by the interregnum were keenly understood by Israeli military planners.
Rather than believing that the past month has been an election campaign which somehow veered off into “irrational exuberance,” and despite my belief in the currency of US/Anglo/Israeli world power predominance, I do see their allied power to be rapidly waning, and I see a system in crisis responding irrationally by creating more contradictions.
I really did not understand the initial tactics used in the Iraq invasion. If they wanted to march straight into Iran, they should have used far more firepower and violence in the initial steps in Iraq, or if they wanted to establish a reliable neo-liberal outpost in the middle east they should have followed Garner’s lead in setting up a secure puppet government for a year or two before pushing neo-liberal reforms down the Iraqi’s throats. The best that can be said is that in order to build up the necessary consensus for war, Bush needed to compromise between the militarists and the neo-liberal economic camp, and yet by doing so, achieved neither of their maximal goals at far greater than expected cost.
Similarly, I am confused by Israeli actions. Clearly, they have done everything possible to avoid, derail, and even render impossible, a relatively just, mutually acceptable, peace, the general parameters of which have been limned out ages ago — only to have gathered dust for decades. The long-term plan to continually displace Arabs and seize their land seems clear. And yet, there is a minority of the Israeli elite who can clearly read the writing on the wall that this may not be possible. (This is similar to establishment figures like Paul Craig Roberts, Kevin Phillips, and Jimmy Carter speaking out in the US.)
Since the pullout from Gaza, the Israelis have done everything possible — from daily sonic booms, impoverishment and confinement, to the current campaign — in order to terrorize the Gazan population and make life unbearable. The casualties of the past month, as high as they have been (and of course as tragic), are clearly nowhere near what Israel is capable of, or what would be necessary to de-populate the strip.
What we are witnessing is not a war, or a “conflict” as the corporate media refers to it, but a counter-insurgency being waged against an occupied people. The effects are horrific to witness, but so clearly destined to fail that one might ask if that were the plan, and for what longer-term reason?
Are the Israelis, constrained by perhaps fear of inflaming Arab opinion to the point of toppling friendly puppet leaders, reduced to — as in Lebanon, with the last minute dropping of cluster bombs — simply terrorizing the population in order to mask their strategic powerlessness? Or do they have faith in an unrevealed longer-term plan? Is there a workable plan to drive the Gazans out of the strip? Or is this “Shock Doctrine and Awe” campaign merely an ad-hoc plan to steal gas and oil revenues? (Which as we read, even under the best of conditions, would only have given Palestinians 10% of the revenue. Questions of how that revenue would be divided between Gaza and the West Bank also arise.)
As I believe — with evidence — that this current attack was prepared long in advance, and unquestionably known about by the US, I would not be surprised if this is to be used to establish Obama’s power and reputation as a World Leader, in order to restore the Imperial image. We will know within several weeks if Obama puts forth a “Grand Peace Plan,” similar in scope to Oslo. Any such plan would have been a long time in the making, involving vastly complex behind the scenes negotiating — necessarily including many different centers of interest and nations — and having nothing to do with Obama himself, who (as idiotically as Bush) was busy body surfing and flashing “shaka” signs: thus giving credence to my assertion that most world events are pre-planned and staged.
If no plan appears, then we must first watch the immediate economic details outlined above.
Gaza will need a tremendous amount of rebuilding (all of which helps the world economy). Just who finances that rebuilding and what influence they seek in exchange, and what Israel will allow, will need to be watched carefully. How will the “new and improved” Gaza be constructed? Will the economy also be restructured?
(International law is clear that Israel, as the occupying power, is responsible for the welfare of the Palestinians. That they choose not to fulfill that responsibility and that other nations, such as Finland, seek to fill the needs gap, raises an important question: Are those nations aidng the people of Gaza more than they are aiding an illegal occupation? Or is the reverse true? Are they aiding or abetting? Or in seeking to do both, are they “aiding and abetting” a long-standing unresolved, deepening, war crime of masive proportions? Why?)
Finally, we will need to watch Israel closely to see whether they have an achievable, coherent, long-term strategy — just or unjust — or whether they are slowly sinking into the quicksand of incoherent contradiction as their power drains irrevocably away.
Listening to NPR while driving home this evening, I was struck to hear a story about the US military training for counter-insurgency exactly identical to one that had run five years ago — except that the word “Iraq” was replaced by “Afghanistan.” (Orwell would have been proud at the Fordism of it.) Obama ran on a platform of escalating the illegal invasion of Afghanistan and expanding it into Pakistan; now the national media is doing everything possible to prime us for it. As the US’s model for counter-insurgency is based upon the Israeli model and expertise, it behooves us to study the Israeli experience closely: They are a bellweather of our own waning power and Imperial contradictions.
The next several months will bring us “change,” to be sure, but not of the type people chose to believe in. There will be no happy dance towards a “Just World,” whatever that means — but the tired and tarnished Imperial Image will be given a lot of attention; it will be brightened and burnished, and re-branded with a shiny new logo. In some areas of the globe, wars will expand. But elsewhere we will be asked to help others by spreading the products and services of our corporations around unselfishly. At that point, we will find out how the Middle East figures into the newer “New World Order” we will be asked to support.
Back in the hauntingly beautiful land once called Palestine one thing is certain: both the Palestinians and the Zionists have shown limitless patience in realizing their aspirations. Yet today one eats while the other starves. And that cannot bode well for the future of the Middle East, or the future of man, no matter how shiny the Imperial logo, or how catchy the new Imperial motto.

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 13 2009 8:55 utc | 53

By this latest piece of simplistic philosophy the holocaust would have been fine if germans had become nicer human beings as a result.
Mr Brown would be wise to take his racist meanderings “Soon the Muslim lands will be cutting off oil to America somewhere else where people are as silly as he appears to be.
I would be interested? no interested isn’t the term, ummm perhaps surprised, yeah surprised – I would be surprised if Jon Brown could provide a cogent theory supported by checkable facts to support his outrageous assertion that Russia and the Muslims have decided they don’t want to sell their oil to anyone any more.
What the fuck has Russia done to get this rap? Insist that the Ukraine pay for their gas same as everyone else?
This is without delving into the racist claims that ‘Muslims (many of whose countries, incidentally, have far lower incidences of violent crime than so called ‘developed nations’ such as amerika) killing each other all the time’.
Go away Mr Brown, unless you can engage us with rational, fact based arguments we aren’t interested in you or your illegal state’s squalid self justification for mass murder.
If you are an israeli do yourself and your compatriots a favour and force your government to stop this murdering.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Jan 13 2009 9:01 utc | 54

But please, bare with me here.
For a minute I thought you said you were half Nudist.
Shucks, only “half-Jewish.” (Let me put my clothes on here before I respond to the rest of your post.)
Certainly couldn’t have been the top half, where the centers of intelligence are usually housed?
The rest of your ideas are equally hilarious:
America is not controlled by Jews, you are simply given advice.
Help! My friendly family doctor has turned into the Godfather: Myron Brando.
If many intelligent and caring Jews did not help you, America would fall and you all would have no one to blame but yourselves.
Anyone with a Jewish mother know how to blame themselves.
Who writes this stuff, Jackie Mason?
Besides, Muslims kill each other all the time, even when fathers burn their daughters alive for not simply wearing the proper attire.
No, due to Israel’s blockade, that’s called “dinner” these days in Gaza.
Satan is blinding many, but remember that Jesus smashed market tables too.
Imagine what he would have done with “smart weapons” and a few years training at one of our better military academies.
Which reminds me of a song: Who Would Jesus Bomb? by one of my favorite radical musicians, David Rovics.
Badda Bing, Badda Boom! I’m outta here.

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 13 2009 9:18 utc | 55

Debs is dead:
You beat me to the punch, but I beat you to the punchline;-)

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 13 2009 9:21 utc | 56

LAT: Olmert says he talked Bush out of cease-fire vote

U.S. officials have not disputed Olmert’s account. But in one inconsistency, Bush returned to the White House from Philadelphia hours before the U.N. vote, according to the president’s schedule.

A senior U.S. official said the Bush administration preferred a peace blueprint being assembled by Egypt, but didn’t want to veto the U.N. resolution by voting against it.
There had been speculation that Rice was ordered to change course, and Olmert’s version of events “seemed to make sense,” said Nathan Brown, head of Middle East studies at George Washington University.
Rice had been pushing hard for the resolution draft, then abruptly shifted ground. Several European diplomats said afterward that they were shocked by the move.
“It seemed like a strange step,” Brown said.

Posted by: b | Jan 13 2009 10:03 utc | 57

Malooga, I appreciate your thinking aloud about Israels long term “plans”. But referring to the Domhoff/Mann structure of power in such things, Israel appears to be structured differently than the U.S. – and although it could be that Israel is the “work in progress” designing future U.S. geo-strategical methodology, the U.S. unlike Israel is hampered by security council veto. Which is of course Israel’s cart-blanche in avoiding a veto and experimenting on how best to deny history. The U.S. is very interested in these experiments, and have tried to execute them in Iraq, but being tethered to international law (and possible veto) have found their effort wanting and counter productive as the neo-colonial model (witness the SOFA/oil law negotiations).
Israel is fighting on a similar ever constricting circle with ever closer enemies at the doorstep, despite the lopsided power equation that has developed as a result – a malignant military/political (silent)dictatorship with a weak economic network foundation serving an unattainable religious mandate. The U.S. finds entertainment in such a display up until it proves counterproductive to their own economic interests, which in the U.S. trump all other considerations.
(sorry if this incoherent, wine and following you’re lead in thinking aloud)

Posted by: anna missed | Jan 13 2009 10:47 utc | 58

@anna missed:
I was just thinking of you, and left you a follow-up to Domhoff/Mann you might want to explore over here.
Yes, well, one big difference is that Israel is so small that everyone knows everyone else in the power structure personally, and many are interrelated, and/or decendants of founders: kinda like the US in 1802.
One similarity is that organized religion is NOT included in the central power and planning group. However, organized religion has much more power in Israel than the US, especially in “get out the vote” efforts. And because of the nature of their coalition-style government, they are much more successful in exacting demands from politicians, hence another justification for the illegal West Bank settlements.
(As a matter of fact, it is this shot-gun marriage of necessity that quite possibly truly poses the greatest existential threat that Israel faces.)
Many ultra-orthodox do not serve in the military, creating a kind of caste system with poor Russians and Sephardics in the military defending their settlements. By and large though, the religious are handled similarly to how Bush handled the religious right: Promise them what you need to get elected and them throw them a bone or two later, then ignore them. (Which is one reason why I wasn’t worried about McCain, since foreign policies are almost identical, with members of the Brzezinski family on both sides.)
Of course, like Rodney Dangerfield, the religious never get any respect. When they get troublesome, as American gadfly Wellstone did, they are simply erased. For instance, Meir Kahane:

An Egyptian by the name El Sayyid Nosair, who was jailed in 1995 for the assassination of Rabbi Meir Kahane, leader of the Jewish Defense League, was connected to Adbel-Rahman and the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. “At his trial, Mr. Nosair claimed that the reason he had military manuals was that he was being trained by the US, not because he was intent on terrorism,” Andrew Marshall wrote for the Independent on November 1, 1998.
It is said Nosair was trained by a former Egyptian soldier named Ali Mohamed, allegedly with connections to al-Qaeda. “Yet Mr. Mohamed, it is clear from his record, was working for the US government at the time he provided the training: he was a Green Beret, part of America’s Special Forces. … [Mohamed’s recruits, under the auspices of Operation Cyclone] received brief paramilitary training and weapons instruction in the New York area, according to evidence in earlier trials, before being sent to fight with [Gulbuddin] Hekmatyar [a major CIA asset in Afghanistan]. Even Sheikh Abdel-Rahman had, apparently, entered the US with the full knowledge of the CIA in 1990.” (For more on Hekmatyar, see Gary Leupp’s Meet Mr. Blowback: Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, CIA Operative and Homicidal Thug.)

Another difference is the complete integration of the military into the power structure, much as in fascism, whereby it is only recently that politicans could get anywhere without being military heroes.
The nature of Israeli business, so much of it being high-tech and knowledge — often spying — based differs from the US. All small nations find niches to compete in. Israel is in the business of knowing everyone else’s business. IF your firm monitors high speed data transactions worldwide, you have a different relationship with your government than if your firm manufactures Dial soap.
Israel has perhaps the second most extensive spy network worldwide after the US, and so many powerful Jews worldwide (Not just in the US, but in Poland, Russia, Georgia, to name a few countries.) have dual allegiances; some could even be considered part of Israel’s power elite.
Israel’s hold on the diamond industry gives it extensive worldwide contacts, and it maintains a world-wide contact system of foreign mercenaries and organized crime syndicates.
I agree with your assertion that both countries are experimenting in pushing the boundaries of international law and independent action.
Time for bed.

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 13 2009 12:01 utc | 59

I have read many threads about Israel/Palestine but seldom one as well-informed as this.
There is a great deal of very good sense above. Thanks.

Posted by: Richard Parker | Jan 13 2009 12:26 utc | 60

thanks for clearing this up and getting it together, b.
Note: it was an *abstention*, which is less, far less, than a NO or a VETO. Quite a change from previous UN votes (not all naturally.) It is highly significant, though there is no direct benefit for the Palestinians right now. (Duh.)
*****
Of course it is legitimate to talk about ‘Jews’ when discussing Israel because the existence and functioning of Israel as a country rests, ultimately, on a distinction, accompanied by material, territorial, and political separation, between ‘Jews’ and non-Jews.
A state organized under ethnic and self-proclaimed ‘religious’ lines cannot bury this aspect or reasonably expect to coerce others into ignoring that. Within that situation, parsing the difference between ‘Zionism’, which we might call a political doctrine, and ‘being a Jew/Jewish’, as a sort of folkloric belonging, ethnic roots, sharing of old values, whatever (as, say, Catholics in Spain…) can be carried out – many Jews disapprove of, despise, the present Gaza invasion.
On the other hand, one might argue that the distinctions between different ‘strands’ of Jewish opinion are irrelevant, as long as ‘protesting’ Jews – in Israel, in the US, or elsewhere – don’t question the status quo, the core definition, and simply object to one or the other of the Isr. Gvmt’s actions.
Whether ‘Jews’ control Hollywood, international finance, etc. is a separate, distinct, can of worms.

Posted by: Tangerine | Jan 13 2009 14:35 utc | 61

Insightful – from a professor in tel Aviv: Reflections on Gaza from Tel Aviv

As such Gaza is a laboratory of catastrophization. The present assault is not a war of one army against another, neither a war of a regular army against a guerilla organization, and not even or not simply a war of a regular army against an armed militia. Notwithstanding intentions and justifications, the scope of destruction and the number of civilian casualties are first and foremost a temporary change in the mode of catastrophization: airplane bombs are added to the closure, artillery shells go hand in hand with the cutoff of electricity and the destruction of the sewage system. Catastrophization and not the infliction of a large scale disaster, because the humanitarian corridor is always open. Israel will not let a true humanitarian catastrophe happen in Gaza. There are no final solutions in this conflict, and there won’t be one here as well. Israel governs Gaza by an ongoing measured and calculated catastrophization that becomes more brutal, deadly and shameless with each wave of violence. More is yet to come.

Posted by: b | Jan 13 2009 15:34 utc | 62

As I wroe above: The long-term plan to continually displace Arabs and seize their land seems clear.
But, yes, it can be seen as a sadistic laboratory to study the control of human beings — just as the concentration camps were. The moral equivalence is irrefutable.

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 13 2009 17:15 utc | 63

As I wrote above: The long-term plan to continually displace Arabs and seize their land seems clear.
But, yes, it can be seen as a sadistic laboratory to study the control of human beings — just as the concentration camps were. The moral equivalence is irrefutable.

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 13 2009 17:15 utc | 64

I agree, Malooga, that it seems to be a sadistic lab to study the control of human beings.
Noriega would send his very best Panamanian troops to Israel for training. Training for what? Well, Panama certainly didn’t need to know how to fight in deserts and they already knew combat tactics and weaponry. While they may argue it was ‘counterinsurgency’ and/or ‘anti-terror’ training (which they could hire instructors to do), Malooga’s point above seems to fit better.
There even was a special uniform badge that Panama’s elite Israel-trained troops wore. My memory is very old on this, but I seem to remember it was an Israeli and Panamanian flag entwined.

Posted by: Ensley | Jan 13 2009 19:11 utc | 65

Thanks Malooga for responding to my query. I’d agree that the religious network in Israel functions at about the same level as in the U.S. – a relatively weak provocateur to the other networks – unlike say, Iran where the religious network dominates the others. Israel, unlike the U.S. has a very weak economic network which is (over) compensated for by strengthening the political/military nexus that is tasked with the forced extraction (by necessity?) of wealth from other sources ie solicitation, neo-colonial (regional) economic hegemony, or as you mention the trafficking a kind of intelligence hegemony. Without any of the above, Israel as a nation state would wither away in a heartbeat, having no inherent economic advantage either in resources or industry. I think the U.S. has a vested interest in this Sparta experiment of Israel for a whole host of tactical and strategic reasons, up until it becomes a threat to its own economic hegemony and political legitimacy. A point that arrives closer by the day

Posted by: anna missed | Jan 13 2009 19:23 utc | 66

There even was a special uniform badge that Panama’s elite Israel-trained troops wore.
The irony of it all is inexcusably pathetic and trafic.

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 13 2009 20:01 utc | 67

Panama wasn’t/isn’t the only recipient of Israeli military beneficence and knowledge. Along with healthy dollops of Jewish idealism, of course. Gotta keep up appearances.

Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jan 13 2009 21:23 utc | 68

You have to take into account at that period of time, the illustrious School of the Americas was right across the street in Panama. What was it these elite troops needed to learn from the Israelis that even the School of the American’s wouldn’t teach?

Posted by: Ensley | Jan 13 2009 21:47 utc | 69

greeks for gaza

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 13 2009 23:16 utc | 70

Here’s something for you, r’giap.
There was to be a transfer of 235 containers of American heavy weapons bound for Israel via the Greek port of Astakos. The govt vehemently denied this, but the plan, exposed via a Reuters story end Dec., met with widespread condemnation in Greece, with plans to blockade the port already joining widespread calls to boycott Israeli goods.
Yesterday, the Pentagon announced it had abandoned its intention to use the port, for now, leaving the lying conservative Karamanlis govt. swinging slowly in the stiff Aegean breeze, stunned by the lightning quick adverse reaction. The foreign minister of Greece and heir apparent to Costas Karamanlis, the embarrassed Dora Bakoyianni, yet another scion of a big political family, her father being ex prime minister and American bootlick, Costas Mitsotakis, is still wiping egg off her face.

Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jan 14 2009 0:29 utc | 71

Amend.
Make that 325 containers, 3,000 tons, described by ship brokers as “unusual”, in two trips, mid to end of January, reported by Reuters last Saturday.

Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jan 14 2009 0:46 utc | 72

slothrop: “triumph of system over agency.” Nicely turned. Yet don’t you feel that there are powerful agents inside the system, just not the ones that are propped up front and center?
What does it say about system, when the only major media voice taking on the obliteration of Gaza in any meaningful way is a comedy news show?
Stewart also picks up on a curious repetition in diverse politician/ pundit expressions of support for Israel, as if they all got the same talking points.
Sample:

Bloomberg: If you’re in your apartment and some emotionally disturbed person is banging on your door, screaming “I’m going to come through this door and kill you!” do you want us to respond with one police officer, which is proportional, or with all the resources at our command?
Stewart: I guess it depends if I forced that guy to live in my hallway… and go through checkpoints every time he has to take a shit! But then again, by removing him by force… I guess if you believe that there are no more crazy people in New York… oookay!

Posted by: small coke | Jan 14 2009 2:56 utc | 73

Further to my #22…
on the issue of 911 blackmail
recently James Bamford explained how Israeli companies spy on the US government and it’s citizens
However He’s fails to or forgot to mention Amdoc’s …
911 – The Israeli Connection
[quote]Since this report was first aired, AIPAC has found itself embroiled in yet another espionage case, this time involving an operative inside the very Pentagon office, from which many of the now discredited claims abut Iraq’s WMD emerged. So here it is again for those of you unaware, that on 9-11, the largest foreign spy ring ever uncovered in the US was in the process of being rounded up, and that evidence linking these arrested Israeli spies to 911 has been classified by the US Government! Part I – Evidence linking Israelis to 9/11 is classified. Part II – Israeli phone company in U.S. Part III – Israeli wiretapping potential – back door. Part IV – Conclusion of series and info on some illegal activities of Israelis. All 4 parts are joined in one file.[/quote]
Amdocs has contracts with the 25 biggest phone companies in America, and more worldwide. The White House and other secure government phone lines are protected, but it is virtually impossible to make a call on normal phones without generating an Amdocs record of it.
I blogged this back in July 20, of 2006 on American Samizdat.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jan 14 2009 3:44 utc | 74

Further to my #22…
on the issue of 911 blackmail
recently James Bamford explained how Israeli companies spy on the US government and it’s citizens
However He’s fails to or forgot to mention Amdoc’s …
911 – The Israeli Connection
[quote]Since this report was first aired, AIPAC has found itself embroiled in yet another espionage case, this time involving an operative inside the very Pentagon office, from which many of the now discredited claims abut Iraq’s WMD emerged. So here it is again for those of you unaware, that on 9-11, the largest foreign spy ring ever uncovered in the US was in the process of being rounded up, and that evidence linking these arrested Israeli spies to 911 has been classified by the US Government! Part I – Evidence linking Israelis to 9/11 is classified. Part II – Israeli phone company in U.S. Part III – Israeli wiretapping potential – back door. Part IV – Conclusion of series and info on some illegal activities of Israelis. All 4 parts are joined in one file.[/quote]
Amdocs has contracts with the 25 biggest phone companies in America, and more worldwide. The White House and other secure government phone lines are protected, but it is virtually impossible to make a call on normal phones without generating an Amdocs record of it.
I blogged this back in July 20, of 2006 on American Samizdat.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jan 14 2009 3:46 utc | 75

Yes, U$.
I was too tired last night to find those links when posting on Israel’s power structure.
Some Israeli kids, probably sons of diplomats stationed in NY or DC, were watching Rowan & Martin’s “Laugh-In” back in the seventies and decided to become Ernestine, the Telephone Operator when they grew up:

Lily’s first comedy album “This Is A Recording” (Polydor, 1971) was recorded live at the Icehouse in Pasadena. The album features bits with Ernestine dealing with problems from an “Obscene Phone Call”; mistaking a phone call from mafia boss for the Pope; calling actress Joan Crawford (then head of the Pepsi Company) to demand her dime back because the Pepsi machine didn’t dispense her pop; butting head with J. Edgar Hoover of the “F.B.I.”; and a conversation with writer Gore Vidal as Ernestine says “Mr. Veedle, you owe us a balance of $23.64. When may we expect payment? É Pardon? When what freezes over? É? I don’t see why you’re kicking up such a ruckus when according to our files your present bank balance, plus stocks, securities, and other holdings, amounts to exactly … Pardon? Privileged information? Oh! (snort, snort) Mr. Veedle, that’s so cute! No, no, no, you’re dealing with the telephone company. We are not subject to city, state, or federal legislation. We are omnipotent.”

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 14 2009 4:32 utc | 76

Trojan Horse
How Israeli Backdoor Technology Penetrated the US Government’s Telecom System and Compromised National Security
In the end, does it really matter whom is leading whom, Israel and America remind me of two bullies turned criminal that I knew in my youth, each one would egg the other on further and further pushing the boundaries of despicable and dehumanizing behavior until one day they both had crossed the line of deviancy and wound up raping and murdering someone. It started as fun and games, and grew beyond their abilities to control; a friend of a friend, later told me after a talk with one of these dinks that he admitted they became addicted to the adrenaline, power, and attention and couldn’t stop themselves.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jan 14 2009 4:42 utc | 77

israel, america
Just a couple of words, different words, different labels, same content. Maybe they should be considered synonyms…

Posted by: David | Jan 14 2009 5:19 utc | 78

Toronto Star

Canada stood alone before a United Nations human rights council yesterday, the only one among 47 nations to oppose a motion condemning the Israeli military offensive in Gaza. The vote before the Geneva-based body shows the Stephen Harper government has abandoned a more even-handed approach to the Middle East in favour of unalloyed support of Israel, according to some long-time observers.

My email:
Mr. Weston, as my representative in parliament it is your duty to honour my request.
You must announce to your caucus that this constituent demands that Canada take immediate steps to halt attacks on Gaza by Israel.
Sincerely,
[jonku]

Posted by: jonku | Jan 14 2009 11:15 utc | 79

The Israeli murderous campaign in Gaza is unspeakable and those defending it are below contempt. Trying to divert attention to past palistinian deeds is Gobbelish (apologies to Dr Goebbels). Most Germans did not know of the Camps where 10 million died of which nearly 6 million were Jews but all were held guilty and punished collectively. All Jews to-day do know about the Gaza Holocaust. Anyone defending the murders is personally responsible for every broken baby . I have seen a video of a dying girl crying mama. The UN said no one fired from the UN school where the Israelis killed all the children. It was proven that the “Proof photos” they showed were a year old. Israelis killed UN helpers trying to stop children dying of their wounds.
The Gazains just fired back a few rockets to stop their starvation and murder. What courage. Their spirit will live forever.
The Army is Jewish. The State is Jewish. 90% of Israelis support the murder. It was just cowardly Israeli Jews who fired Tank Shells, used artillery, warships, Bombs, phosphorus.
No one can stop the genocidal Arab Holocaust.
The Jewish state will only respond to pressure from Jews. We see no effective Jewish anti-murder movement anywhere . We stand by helpless while people are murdered. But there is one way we can stop it if we want to
Of course an “unfair” total boycott of the Israeli State and its defenders would be justifiable if it forced the stopping of their much more unfair mass murders.
Until Israel returns to the 67 border , gets rid of its Nuclear weapons and its leaders are brought before the world court it should be boycotted . And all its blood stained defenders in services and business. They hope this will be forgotten like when they murdered 30,000 in Lebanon. Make this different. Boycott them. It is the great weapon you have. Be brave. Be effective. Use your power. Boycott now. You are involved as a boycotter or as a silent supporter
Moshe Yaalon Israelli Chief of Staff in 2002 said “The palestinians must be forced to understand in the deepest recesses of their consciousness that they are a defeated People”
boindub

Posted by: boindub | Jan 14 2009 18:44 utc | 80

90% of Israelis support the murder
There you must have fallen for Zionist propaganda. Only 76% of Israelis are Jewish. Of those 90% are said to support the slaughter.
Or would you believe that half of the Israeli Arabs do support this?

Posted by: b | Jan 14 2009 19:01 utc | 81