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January 16, 2009
No Miracle Here

A plane went down on the Hudson river after losing power due to bird strike.

The cabin air intake and outlet valves closed and prevented a premature sinking. The emergency exits opened. The rescue slides inflated and functioned as rescue rafts as they are supposed to do.  All passengers could escape.

The pilot did as he was trained to do in many simulator sessions of emergency landing on water. The conditions for that were near perfect. There were lots of rescue staff nearby.

The technology worked as it was supposed to do. The pilot and crew did what they had been trained to do. The condition were in favor of a fast and easy rescue.

But the Globe & Mail is headlining 'A miracle on the Hudson'. The BBC has a
Tale of miraculous airline escape. Bloomberg says US Airways Pilot Averts Tragedy With ‘Miracle’ New York Landing. Sky News believes the Crash Pilot Is Hero Of The Hudson

Some machine just provided me hot coffee. Is that miraculous too and the operator a hero?

Posted by b on January 16, 2009 at 10:38 UTC | Permalink
Comments

Bravo again, b, precisely my sentiments expressed on another thread. In order to be a hero, one has to risk one’s life against one’s better instincts, as that anonymous hero did some years ago when a plane went down in a Washington river and a man kept selflessly pushing survivors onto a helicopter winch and dying in the attempt.
Or ‘Médecins sans Frontières’who risk their lives daily ………
The pilot didn’t do anything heroic. He demonstrated ‘great skill’ and probably sound ‘management’, nothing more, nothing less. Most importantly, he didn’t have a choice, unlike the genuine heroes I mentioned above. I was once involved in an ‘incident’ on a German autobahn, doing 250 km/hour (150 MPH) with a car (‘Ghost Rider’) coming the other way on the same lane. I swerved like crazy, causing other cars to swerve, and came to a hault about 30 seconds later (which seemed like 30 minutes). My passengers were ‘saved’ by some skilful driving and loads of luck, certainly not by any ‘heroics’ on my part or by the other drivers, as my reactions were instinctively geared towards self-preservation.
The U.S.A. is so desperate to get Israei atrocities off the front page that it will stoop to anything. Reminds me of ‘hero’ Pat Tilman (who better fits my definition of a hero, as he gave up an incredibly lucrative sports career to die for what he believed in –even if it was misguided).

Posted by: Parviz | Jan 16 2009 11:08 utc | 1

I think it’s more a matter of thinking what could’ve happened if…

Posted by: ralphieboy | Jan 16 2009 11:15 utc | 2

Fer Chrissake, b, have you not looked at the pictures?!
If you stare at the ripples in the water behind the left wing for a bit, you can see Jesus — beard and all. He’s obviously sticking around to hold the plane up so all those poor souls can live another day.
Need more proof? A bunch of the passenger report that they felt closer to God during the incident, and many report feeling blessed afterwards. They are variously thanking God or Jesus for pulling them through.
Now have to do what they promised The Man Upstairs during the crash landing — like light some candles, stop kicking the dog or the children, leave off the Jim Beam, put the money back, quit crack, meth, investment banking, and so forth.
Also, geese are Satan.

Posted by: Antifa | Jan 16 2009 11:15 utc | 3

Thank Jesus he’s a gentile.

Posted by: CP | Jan 16 2009 12:07 utc | 4

nothing on the news last night about the idfs attacks on the UN or the attacks on the hospital. gross. just nonstop airplane in water.

Posted by: annie | Jan 16 2009 12:47 utc | 5

c’mon, give the guy some credit.
ditchings are not as fatal as some think but people do die often enough. here are some stats on water “landings”.
as far as I am concerned, that is the kind of pilot I want driving me around. I have had my share of rookies and appreciate a cool hand on the stick.
besides, don’t we need some good news every now and then? are we all addicted to horror?

Posted by: dan of steele | Jan 16 2009 13:28 utc | 6

Don’t be a drip, b. The pilot brought the ‘plane down precisely where there were the most boats available for rescue (due to the location of the ferry terminals on both sides of the Hudson at that point) and not a single person suffered a serious injury in the rescue, which took place in subzero cold. Even in minor airline accidents, elderly passengers can have fatal heart attacks. I’d say it was an excellent job on the part of the aircrew and the boat captains (who don’t train for this sort of rescue mission.)
I agree with you on the subject of the hyperbolic media coverage, but so what, if they didn’t have this they would probably run stories about stupid pet tricks rather than Gaza.

Posted by: slim | Jan 16 2009 13:29 utc | 7

I just tolerated, out of morbid curiosity, a whole hour of Zionist Larry King who portrayed the pilot as if he had run across a minefield under heavy artillery fire and rescued 5 wounded soldiers. Most convenient, don’t you think? What next? The White House, medals, honours, more publicity and whatever it takes to divert attention ………….
They haven’t just lowered the bar for national heroes, they’ve removed it altogether in the interests of “the greater good” …….

Posted by: Parviz | Jan 16 2009 13:30 utc | 8

You guys, wanna see the real American Jesus, want to see the real deal, the films description states, If your looking for the essential truth of the American South, and I’d interject the Nixon Southern strategy, do yourself a favor and rent,
Searching for the Wrong Eyed Jesus
But be warned, have your therapist on speed dial or lots and lots of booze…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jan 16 2009 13:32 utc | 9

i didn’t mean to imply it wasn’t a great story dos. of course they should give the guy big credit and cover it. but there’s a friggin war going on for gods sake. bombing the hell out of the UN? since when does this go unnoticed? don’t we still have a place for world news when we have domestic stories, or is this landing world news?

Posted by: annie | Jan 16 2009 13:43 utc | 10

The media blows up a good news story and you spend your time grousing about it, as if this is the first time this ever happened? Sound like a bunch of old farts.

Posted by: anon | Jan 16 2009 14:04 utc | 11

I’d call the pilot a hero. I don’t know if any of you have ever been responsible for the lives of other humans, the stress can be crazy. True, the pilot did just what he was supposed to, but it isn’t like the guy has spent hours ditching planes in major population centers. He could have easily freaked-out and crashed the plane into a building. I guess this is why they put the pilots in the front… motivation!
This is exactly the sort of story media types have orgasms over, like starving dogs they’ll attack the meat of it and tear it to pieces until there is nothing left. It gets the bad news off the front page and it gives writers and commentators a nice, easy to package, black&white story to cover without any fear of pissing power off.
What I want to know is, what was the nationality of those birds?

Posted by: David | Jan 16 2009 14:14 utc | 12

Of course there is a need to separate out even-handed reporting on world events from emotional manipulation used for propaganda purposes.
If a Palestinian “miraculously” saves three children from a burning building just hit by Israeli rocket fire, is he not equally heroic and worthy of media time and attention?

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 16 2009 14:16 utc | 13

Uncle @9
That is one hallucinatory, strange-ass movie. Extremely creepy.

Posted by: Tantalus | Jan 16 2009 14:20 utc | 14

Not to belabor the obvious, that the term “hero” is bandied about far too much.
But, just because things work as they are supposed to–and no, your comparison to a cup of coffee is a little too facile–doesn’t diminish what happened.
It seems nowadays that things in fact do not work as they are supposed to since much of what we experience as Americans is built on dissembling, dishonesty, and outright fraud. Let’s just take Katrina as one of many possible examples.
So perhaps, since something finally worked it does seem indeed “miraculous”.
And, yes, I recognize that this story is “feel good”, with far more major events remaining undiscussed and underreported.

Posted by: Steve | Jan 16 2009 14:21 utc | 15

I guess so many viewers were watching the airplane story that they just done gone missed George Bush and his final ‘speech’ (which I expect that media to replay over and over today to make sure we hear all his excuses for his disastrous presidency). That almost makes up for the lack of coverage of Gaza.

Posted by: Ensley | Jan 16 2009 14:24 utc | 16

to be frank dan, i couldn’t give a flying fuck whether these stories are created from fluff or fact – their purpose as ‘news stories’ is to efface others & yesterday the historic meeting at the un of the general assembly for example which to my understanding is a very very rare event is completely efface precisely because it represents the actual life of the people

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 16 2009 14:26 utc | 17

Pilots practice ditching in simulators, but that’s hardly the same as actually doing one in real life. “Hero” is an overused word, but certainly he displayed a very high degree of skill under pressure. Whether that deserves the hero moniker is a hard question to answer.

Posted by: Peter | Jan 16 2009 14:46 utc | 18

Ah, that explains NASA’s LIFE ON MARS!!!!! extravaganza. I figured some more domestic perfidy was coming to light.

Posted by: …—… | Jan 16 2009 14:54 utc | 19

r’giap @ 17
bread and circuses my friend, same as it ever was.
the whole “western” world is at the mercy of a couple of news agencies who decide what is “news”. they have their agendas, we have the internets. railing against them is not very productive imho. I don’t believe the journalists have any say on what is front paged, the editors decide this. Corporate media looks out for corporate assets, if they can throw us a bone every now and then at no cost to themselves they will, bottom line is always on top however.

Posted by: dan of steele | Jan 16 2009 14:56 utc | 20

My definition of a hero: a person who, from a position of safety, risks his or her life by entering a dangerous situation to save the lives of persons other than family members, when he or she is under no obligation or expectation to do so.

Posted by: Peter | Jan 16 2009 15:13 utc | 21

Am I the only one who sees the irony of this thread being the “hottest” for commentary today?
As much as some people would like to see 24/7 Gaza horror TV, think of all the other horrors which are being missed as we wallow in the jewish/arab (or is is arab/jewish) misery.
I have been thinking of trying to find every genocide, every awful human rights violation happening right now and listing them. But I don’t think I have that much feel time; I imagine it would take days to write…
This thread is in many ways no better than the blanket coverage of the crash, in fact it is part of the coverage.
One thing I’m as guilty of as anybody is that I find I get tangle in webs of minutia and miss seeing the spider.

Posted by: David | Jan 16 2009 15:18 utc | 22

By your definition, Peter @21, the pilot is a hero. After getting out of the plane along with all of the passengers, he went not once but twice back into the sinking plane to make absolutely sure no one was still aboard. While one time might have been procedure, the second probably wasn’t. He was safe, and he went back in risking his own life. Twice.
Let’s give some credit where it is due.

Posted by: Ensley | Jan 16 2009 15:41 utc | 23

b is absolutely right:
The war crimes on Gaza didn’t happen months ago, they are not ‘yesterday’s news’, they are ongoing and I would have thought MoA bloggers would agree that the entire world should be treating this as the No. 1 priority TODAY (with the emphasis on ‘today’).
I cannot understand how the pilot story is more important than the Israeli (U.S.-supplied) white phosphorous entering children’s bodies and whose fires are unquenchable, meaning that huge amounts of human tissue have to be removed by understaffed and underequipped surgeons to eliminate the possibility of re-ignition. This is happening as I write. But, Oh, so sorry for raining on the U.S. parade of the pilot story and black-out of Israeli atrocities. I’m obviously unobjective and mean-spirited.
The Israelis are animals, because only 8 % in today’s poll voted for an immediate cease-fire and the rest voted for a continuation until HAMAS is wiped out. Hitler must be laughing in his grave.
And by the way, this is the 21st century, so imagine what the Israelis would have done if the news blackout had been TOTAL as in Nazi Germany (no internet, no blogosphere, no Al Jazeera …….!) The possibilities truly boggle even the most warped imagination.

Posted by: Parviz | Jan 16 2009 15:48 utc | 24

This is a fait divers, the sort of thing that makes a newspaper possible. And using it to fill up the newshole is what makes a tabloid possible.
So why read tabloids? Or watch them, as the case may be?

Posted by: alabama | Jan 16 2009 15:54 utc | 25

By your definition, Peter @21, the pilot is a hero. After getting out of the plane along with all of the passengers, he went not once but twice back into the sinking plane to make absolutely sure no one was still aboard. While one time might have been procedure, the second probably wasn’t. He was safe, and he went back in risking his own life. Twice.
Yes, I would agree. While his duties certainly involved helping with evacuation of an aircraft, he probably could have satisfied his obligations without going back twice.

Posted by: Peter | Jan 16 2009 16:22 utc | 26

Parviz,
Please leave the animals out of it. They’ve in enough trouble as it is without being compared to psychos.

Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jan 16 2009 17:14 utc | 27

Al Jazeera just aired an interview with British volunteer medic Sharon Locke in which she confirmed that Israeli soldiers shot Palestinian children point blank, and even shot at civilians trying to flee into her hospital, and when the doctors decided to give refuge to the shocked and traumatized civilians (including mothers clutching shot children) the Israelis bombed the hospital, setting it on fire and forcing the medical staff to evacuate IC patients onto the street.
This wasn’t some HAMAS propagandist relating the events, but someone who volunteered to enter that Hell-hole to help victims of war crimes at enormous personal danger and stress to herself. Now THAT’s what I call a ‘hero’ in the true sense of the word, not a pilot who is forced to use his skill through a freak accident. Did CNN televise the interview with Sharon Locke? No, not a word, only a phone interview with Ben Wedeman in which he mentioned ‘huge damage and destruction’ but didn’t go even remotely into any of the sickening details.

Posted by: Parviz | Jan 16 2009 17:37 utc | 28

Thrasyboulos , actually, Sharon Locke’s testimony would indeed classify the Israelis as Psychos.

Posted by: Parviz | Jan 16 2009 17:38 utc | 29

Read this: firedoglake

Posted by: Peter | Jan 16 2009 18:42 utc | 30

I liked the story and found it interesting. I fly a lot and have always figured a water landing would be certain death, so color me impressed by the crew’s actions and the plane’s engineering.
But, 15 minutes told me all I really wanted or needed to know. This type of story is what the TV news does best- people hear about it and turn on the news. Most people are not watching the news anyway. How many people watch Larry King for the news?
My father was a NYC firefighter. Like the link by Peter @30 talks about, stories that remind people that the people who will save your ass in an emergency are just like you, civil service workers and citizens that will act first, without caring if a camera or microphone is nearby.

Posted by: biklett | Jan 16 2009 19:12 utc | 31

biklett, if a 15 minute summation was all the information you wanted/needed to know about The Miracle On The Hudson, then it might be reasonable to ask why the coverage has been so ridiculously overblown.
Sadly, lots of people glean their news from mainstream outlets and hot-air personalities like Larry King. I share Parvis’ sentiment that a plane brought down by geese, where no one died, should pale in comparison to the continued escalations of the Gaza slaughter. it’s disgusting.
in a weak attempt at parody i suggested in another thread that the rest of the world practice the forgetfullness we here in the states have perfected. if we were to actually remember events like the CIA’s involvement undermining Iran in 1953, or the fact our “good friend” Israel attacked and murdered soldiers stationed on the USS Liberty, then maybe we would be less susceptible to the propagenda programming we mindlessly ingest on a daily basis.
on a totally unrelated sidenote, i am beginning to wonder if Candy Crowley, a constant CNN pundit, has any relation to good old Aleister. and every time i see David Gergen, another CNN fixture, i can’t help remembering that smirk he gave Alex Jones when Jones confronted him on camera about Bohemian Grove. creepy.

Posted by: Lizard | Jan 16 2009 20:16 utc | 32

I believe that Peter Phillips of Project Censored, who I admire a lot, did his thesis and later wrote a book about Bohemian Grove, ah, yes….

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 16 2009 20:34 utc | 33

I’m with Parviz on this one. Neither a hero nor a miracle saved any of those on this flight from injury or death. The pilot did do an outstanding job at landing his plane on the icy cold waters of the Hudson, but because he didn’t go above and beyond his duties as a pilot to do this, he doesn’t qualify as a hero. And because nothing supernatural was needed to stave off injury and death on the Hudson, no one has any business claiming that a miracle took place there.
But because this news is now being viewed as a miracle, then the next thing we’ll be hearing about is Fundies for Christ all across America coming out of their megachurches in droves demanding that airlines anoint all their planes with oil from the Holy Land. And I don’t know about anybody else here, but a few shots of WD-40 in the cockpit would suit a godless heathen like myself just fine.;~)

Posted by: Cynthia | Jan 16 2009 20:38 utc | 34

@32,
Unfortunately, what I want/need to know is not what everyone else thinks they want/need
to know 🙂
I don’t disagree that it was/is overblown. I’m just saying that given the way the news about Gaza is presented in most media, no information is not much worse than bad information/propaganda.

Posted by: biklett | Jan 16 2009 20:41 utc | 35

Longer on Bohemian Grove, by William Domhoff. All the details.

Posted by: anna missed | Jan 16 2009 21:07 utc | 36

Longer on Bohemian Grove, by William Domhoff. All the details.

Posted by: anna missed | Jan 16 2009 21:11 utc | 37

Fear sells, fear helps with authoritarianism.
Fear will help The Barockstar Obamiracle invoke dictatorship when the time comes.
Absolutely nothing extraordinary about the plane engine failure, nor about the acts of the pilot and crew. To call it heroic? Well, The Barockstar Obamiracle already has been called Our Grandest Greatest Bestest Hero Ever, and has been said to be changing the very nature of politics.
So if that’s true, I’m sure a routine emergency landing is “heroic.” Even when it’s not.

Posted by: micah pyre | Jan 16 2009 21:15 utc | 38

Read this: firedoglake
When Jane Hamsher has an insight that isn’t obvious to a comatose 5 year old, I’ll consider reading her. So, thanks — but no thanks.

Posted by: micah pyre | Jan 16 2009 21:19 utc | 39

and every time i see David Gergen, another CNN fixture, i can’t help remembering that smirk he gave Alex Jones when Jones confronted him on camera about Bohemian Grove. creepy.
While Gergen is a first-rate Massengill vinegar&water, Alex Jones isn’t exactly not creepy himself.

Posted by: micah pyre | Jan 16 2009 21:22 utc | 40

no no, micah, Alex Jones with his stupid bullhorn is not a source i trust at all.

Posted by: Lizard | Jan 16 2009 21:30 utc | 41

I dunno. Pretty amazing story about a guy who flies a engineless jet into the Hudson river, and 150 passengers survive.
Pretty cool. If it happened in Hamburg.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 16 2009 21:38 utc | 42

Lizard, that’s pretty much what I was saying. Check my double-negative!

Posted by: micah pyre | Jan 16 2009 22:24 utc | 43

@ anna missed:
I forgot about that one. You do have my back.

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 16 2009 23:25 utc | 44

what would be cool my friend slothrop is to see a b 52 bomber flying out your ass – tell me when & i will buy tickets

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 16 2009 23:31 utc | 45

slothrop, your disdain for our host is really tiring, considering you’re perfectly capable of adding to the dialogue here, but often choose not to.
this is how i interpret b’s post: a man who is forced to react to a dangerous situation, like a pilot of a damaged airplane, is being inappropriately being championed as a hero instead of, say, more arguable heroes like norwegian medics braving berserker zionist blood letting in Gaza.
i’ve been back on the satellite feed for almost a whole year, so i’ve been checking out the trifecta of corporate swill (CNN, MSNBC, FOX) and am therefore convinced the lynch pin of amerikan apathy is the media. the Blago scandal obliterated the Illinois labor sit-in, which was just starting to spark labor attention nation wide, and now a plane, which some talking head actually squeezed in a 9-11 reference to, has kicked the uncomfortable reality of the atrocities going on.
Pretty cool. If it happened in Hamburg.
maybe instead of sniping at your usual targets, you could try something else.

Posted by: Lizard | Jan 17 2009 1:38 utc | 46

Mmmm, has any of the MSM bothered to mention the miracle was because it was a European Airframe, French assembled, Airbus.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jan 17 2009 1:42 utc | 47

Do goody good bullshit…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jan 17 2009 1:50 utc | 48

O Children

Posted by: Lizard | Jan 17 2009 2:56 utc | 49

Cloned Poster,
If it turns out that the real hero in this story is Airbus and not the pilot, expect the mainstream press to report that Airbus doesn’t build French planes, instead they build freedom planes — cooked in a deep fat fryer, of course.;~)

Posted by: Cynthia | Jan 17 2009 3:16 utc | 50

Here’s the prosaic logic defended by this post: even the most quotidian event’s representation by “amurkan” media MUST serve serve as a distraction from the quotidian misdeeds of “empire.”
That’d be the shittiest thesis ever written by a freshman journalism student.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 17 2009 4:05 utc | 51

More depth on Bohemian Grove, by William Domhoff. The definitive study. I especially like the “cremation of care” ritual, if not only for their gift of language.

Posted by: anna missed | Jan 17 2009 4:46 utc | 52

MUST serve as a distraction? yeah, i think that about sums up the role of corporate media. it seems fairly logical to me, but i’m a little wary of logic. i’ve heard some very logical arguments for enacting massive eugenic programs.
anyway i don’t do logic well, sloth, i’m like our outgoing prez, speaking from my gut, and my gut tells me that if we didn’t have a MSM that churns out one-sided pro-zionist spin with no high-definition evidence of corpses charred with white phosphorous, do you really think there would be as much complacency here? some genocides at least have a few actors speaking out, but i doubt you’ll hear a peep from hollywood over this one.
honestly the plane crash i’d like to hear more about is Karl’s buddy, the IT guy, who knew a little too much about Ohio. no survivors in that crash. gee, wonder why that’s not being picked over by the journo-jackals?
as for the daily recurring (quotidian, good word) misdeeds of empire, why do they recur with such regularity that we can’t sustain our outrage beyond the next shiny object the media dangles in front of our eyes?

Posted by: Lizard | Jan 17 2009 5:07 utc | 53

thank you anna missed, that’s some good context, certainly broadens my alex-level understanding of the grove.
one of the many problems with the conspiracist culture is the unnecessary power it lends stagecraft through a sometimes dogmatic belief in a grand scheme that all too often resembles religious fundamentalism.
i know an alex jones devotee who has handed out THOUSANDS of DVDs and even though i agree with many of his points, his eyes glaze over when i show signs of not being a TRUE BELIEVER in everything AJ says.
that said, my gut still tells me Gergen eats the flesh of young children.

Posted by: Lizard | Jan 17 2009 5:31 utc | 54

DDay at Digby’s place refers to this take by EmprtyWheel, that the “miracle” is to the credit of the unions that have fought for increased safety training and rules — that and the fact that all those taking part in the landing and rescue are dues paying union members.
That includes the pilot who also happens to be not just a member but a quite active member working to improve and maintain safety and safety training.
Unions in the US are one of the groups demonized by Repugnants and are repressed in many states by so-called “right to work laws” and other, heavier measures.

Posted by: Chuck Cliff | Jan 17 2009 5:44 utc | 55

A shameless distraction offered by Israeli talkshow hosts

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 17 2009 14:43 utc | 56

@sloth @51 –
1. I cited a Canadian, two British and one U.S. source.
2. Nowhere did I claim this to be a distraction from Gaza.
3. I posted against the use of “miracle” and “hero”, highlighted in my post, where normal technology and behavior was what led to the outcome.
Your obviously fact-free allegations fail to hit for a reason. They are dumb.
—
Video of the landing and the rescue operation by NY ferries.
The ferry drivers are really good. But of course they do this all day. Dash and stop at the point.

Posted by: b | Jan 17 2009 20:03 utc | 57

I took a nice break from basking in Obama’s glorious historic Lincolnesque train ride to catch up on the miracle on 47th St. So far, I believe CNN/CNBC and the other Giants of American Journalism have interviewed what?…maybe a dozen, two dozen, passengers? Not enough. Why so penurious with the facts? I am confident that were it not for Obama’s glorious historic, Linclonesque train ride, we’d get the full picture. After all, there are 120 – 130 more miracle passengers to interview, re. the miracle, and their harrowing, heroic, miraculous miracle minutes over the Hudson recounted, in full, from all angles, leaving no stone or miracle unturned.
I am fully confident that once Obama’s glorious historic Lincolnesque train ride reaches its glorious conclusion on Tuesday, America’s Big Media will once again return to duty, informing Americans about the miracle of 47th St. I smell multiple miracle Pulitzers.
BTW, Ariel Sharon is still dead. Mayvbe.

Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jan 18 2009 1:18 utc | 58

thrasyboulos
no no sharon wanders the gelnns & dales night & day with his friends pik potha & ante pavelic communing with the mountain of corpses men create

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 18 2009 1:35 utc | 59

Pardon me, r’giap. My mistake.
By the way, you can catch the latest and greatest on Obama’s historic Lincolnesque train ride AND the Miracle on 47th Street on Huffington Post. The same that one day soon will rescue America from the depredation wrought upon the body politic by the erstwhile Giants of American Journalism via the nubile Monica Lewinsky and the mysterious Judith Miller. Or so the warbling Greek, Arriana Stasinopoulos Huffington tells us.
After this double scoop, HufPo will return to hosting Alan Dershowitz, since he and his are so badly represented, scarce as hens’ teeth, in the American traditional media at large, erstwhile Giants of Journalism , etc.

Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jan 18 2009 2:38 utc | 60

thrasyboulus
can you imagine the ether where all these fascist go – it must stink to high heaven
yes that woman brings shame to all greeks
i hope this last 8 years have made us a little harder & a little less vulnerable to the vagaries of a left that collapses in on itself – either by reformism or by retreat
here, i think the greeks have given us an idea what the next 8 years are going to be like – i feel there will be substantial resistance(s) of a kind we have not known nor that power can comprehend without its armed force

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 18 2009 2:56 utc | 61

I agree with Dan of Steele here. b, I hope the machine that provided you with hot coffee has a better performance/failure rate than the statistics of survival rates for water ditching that Dan of Steele provided us with. As an electrical engineer for a major television manufacturer many years ago, I was responsible to make sure that the TV sets worked at the end of the assembly line. With over a thousand parts/assemblies that were used, a QC incoming part failure rate of .1% would pretty well ascertain that no sets came off the line working or be acceptable to the customer. In no way should a jet passenger plane full with passengers, with no working engines, and trying to safely land in NY, be compared to the workings of a functional coffee machine.
For heaven’s sake (pun intended), the metal skin of the bottom of the fuselage was ripped open on impact. And no telling how long someone could survive in such frigid water temperatures if they were unable to climb aboard the wing.
Cynthia: ”the next thing we’ll be hearing about is Fundies for Christ all across America coming out of their megachurches in droves demanding that airlines anoint all their planes with oil from the Holy Land.” No, what we heard about next was that the wreckage was pulled and will be examined by technical people. I have waited for several days now after your post and still have not heard any “Fundies” or anyone else calling for passenger jets to be anointed with “holy oil” or, as you prefer, WD-40.
I have no problem with calling the pilot a hero. And why not a miracle? In my mind, every ripple of water, every bird in the sky. and every breath we take is a miracle. Awhile back, I criticized Billmon for having an elitist perspective. I find a similar perspective pervasive in this thread. Perhaps instead of mocking people via Uncle $cam’s link “searching for the wrong eyed jesus”, we would be better to listen to the last words of the video trailer “leave your mind at the door and enter with your heart.”

Posted by: Rick | Jan 19 2009 4:44 utc | 62

b
here is a picture of the crane used to pull the Airbus out of the water. thought you might like some info on it.

Posted by: dan of steele | Jan 20 2009 11:33 utc | 63

Rick,
Apparently, you failed to see that I was alluding to a story last week about a couple of clerics from the Christian Right who broke through the wall separating church and state in order to anoint the inaugural doorway with oil fresh from the Holy Land with the goal in mind to give Obama, The Anointed One, the power to perform miracles on our country…
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-01-14/inaugural-freak-show/full/
Unlike you, I don’t believe in divine intervention. I don’t believe that there’s any sort of supernatural being around who steps in (only when he feels up to it, of course) to save any country or any of its people from injury or death.

Posted by: Cynthia | Jan 20 2009 13:23 utc | 64

Cynthia, a loud ‘Amen’ from me, as might be expected.

Posted by: Parviz | Jan 20 2009 13:46 utc | 65

Thanks Dan

Posted by: b | Jan 20 2009 14:07 utc | 66

Cynthia,
I have not heard of the anointing of the doorway by this U.S. Congressman for Obama but this seems more of a political stunt (against Obama) than a religious one (for Obama). All of the major religions despise such pride and hypocrisy. Religion is too often used as a means or an excuse for some political end. In my opinion, an article such as you reference doesn’t help separate church and state either. I question the use of the word “painted” in the article as if the Congressman actually painted a cross on the doorway. That would be destruction of Public Property and he should be arrested. Some oil on a brass doorknob or brass frame probably is hard to charge as damage. So all in all, I see an overblown situation from both the writer and the perpetrator(s). Of all the tragedies going on in the world, there is little to complain about in these particular instances: that is, anointing a doorway or believing that this jetliner incident, ditched so successfully, can be a miracle.
I realize it is hypocritical of me to lecture here. I ridicule others, both those in the news we post about and those of us who post, all too often. However, I try not to ridicule a person’s or group’s particular religious belief. People should be able to believe as they wish without being made fun of. If someone or a group uses their religious belief as an excuse to harm another, either on a personal level, a business level, or as a means for political goals, then others should hold that person or those persons accountable.. Ridicule, though fun, is usually counterproductive in changing someone’s thinking or actions. When I ridicule, it is usually in a circumstances where someone is closed-minded, elitist, politically correct, or possesses such a hardened heart that changing their mind is near impossible. Even then, any personal satisfaction/pride/fun is overshadowed by its lack of virtue and a personal guilt. But it is my sin and my guilt.

Posted by: Rick | Jan 20 2009 15:57 utc | 67

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