Yesterday someone from the Third Reich (must be another of those ironies of history for the current colony in Palestina to be have been called the Third Kingdom) was saying that Hamas was hit heavily because most of those 400 killed were from Hamas (never mind the 100 or so policeman unrelated to Hamas hit the first day and most of the other 300 being civilians hit in the bombings with 25-30% being small children and women).

In any case their expectations seems to be so low that they will be able to pass anything as 'victory' this time. Late yesterday some were even talking about Hamas reducing their demands for a truce, or read the other way, they are begging to be stopped before actually getting involved in something that they don't want to pay the price for.

The military hard-on of some people due to the operations is incredible. From what AFCEA Nightwath writes you would think that the undefeated third reich army is advancing fast into the european mainlands, not surrounding and bombing from the air or far a small ghetto just a few miles away from their capital city. The guy is even boosting about a 500 (civilian) to 1 (terrorist) kill ratio as a measure of their 'success'. I don't even want to guess what it's being said in other cruder right wing forums.

It would be laughable if it wasn't so depressing.

Posted by: ThePaper | Jan 5 2009 7:49 utc | 1

Ban Ki Wimp's organizations says "a quarter of those killed are civilians"

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSLS69391620090105

But that surely beats this idiot's "Beirut over the Atlantic ocean" remark in the summer of 2006'.

Posted by: GPC | Jan 5 2009 8:42 utc | 2

Michel Chossudovsky at Global Research
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11606
claims that, quite simply, this whole planned event is designed primarily to kill civilians, purposely to engender terror.

Sounds about spot-on to me.

Posted by: Fred | Jan 5 2009 9:26 utc | 3

whatever they planned, the repercussions will be to big for them.

they have lost the PR war already - images of dead children and phosphor wounds against Israelis complaining of stress because of homemade rockets.

they tried to insist yesterday that people should not mention Israel and Hamas in one sentence implying equal footing - they lost that, journalists cram Israel and Hamas into one sentence.

is Turkey important for NATO and Israel? read up what they are saying about the conflict. to them Hamas is legitimate.

will the US continue to help Israel? sure. that slogan "yes we can" is dangerous though, same applies for civil liberties, same applies for liberal US Jewish Democrats who find Israeli policies repulsive.

will the Egyptian regime survive? the US civil liberation movement and "yes we can" might inspire here too.

what will be the conclusions of Middle Eastern young masses glued to the television screens watching Al Jazeera. you figure. they are the future.

Posted by: outsider | Jan 5 2009 10:57 utc | 4

From another board...

Zionazi Weapons and Palestinian Flesh

[The news videos of the Palestinian wounded in this latest massacre show some strange injuries, including large areas of blackened flesh and a disproportionate number of amputated limbs, particularly feet and hands. I haven't seen any explanation for this unusual type of damage, but if Israel's earlier behaviour is anything to go by, they are using "experimental" weapons against the trapped civilians of Gaza - Alice]

Summer Rains and Saad

Friday, 08 December 2006

Gaza - Autumn 2006 --- The thin and limpid crescent lies on its back in a clear sky. If it does not reappear tomorrow then Ramadan will end. A 'drone' can be heard above the amplified recitations of the Quran, but it cannot be seen.

On the third floor of the battered and very busy Shifa hospital here in Gaza city lies a 9 yr old boy in his fourth month of recovery. Saad is a sad and frightened boy. He has lost all the muscle from the front of his left thigh. The shape of his femur can be seen in its entirety beneath the skillful skin grafting. There is just a twitch of motion in the foot. Most parts of his young body are scarred. There are many of punctate type, including on his face. There is a colostomy which will probably be permanent because his bowels were badly damaged. The tracheostomy has healed, and the pleural fistula is well on that way.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jan 5 2009 12:50 utc | 5

Not sure about any new weapons testing, but white phosphorus bombing is quite clear, by now. That's not the best way to keep an equal footing with a handful of homemade Hamas rockets. The PR war is far from won for the IDF.

Posted by: CluelessJoe | Jan 5 2009 13:21 utc | 6

I read yesterday that the UN is only counting women and children as civilians. All members of the male sex of any age are considered Hamas terrorists for the count. I understand about 100 police officers had been killed during the bombing of the 30+ police stations; surely they are considered civilians in every other country.

Posted by: Ensley | Jan 5 2009 15:29 utc | 7

Sorry, The Paper #1, for the poor duplication. That will teach me to finish at least one cup of coffee and read each post in its entirety before commenting.

Posted by: Ensley | Jan 5 2009 17:36 utc | 8

ensley - ahem ! (..and the orig post pointing this out was on dec 30th)

Posted by: b real | Jan 5 2009 17:54 utc | 9

b real, my memory doesn't go back that far. It's hell getting old.

Posted by: Ensley | Jan 5 2009 18:15 utc | 10

URGENT!!

please visit Gaza Siege -- urgent updates there about the situation -- please try and alert anyone you can -- spread this on as many blogs as you can.

Thank you.

Posted by: | Jan 5 2009 18:17 utc | 11

"How is this, in their view, supposed to end?"

Hopefully it will end with the surrender of the Palestinians, and the recognition of Israel. That can be accomplished by Israel keeping up the pressure and not letting the Palestinians have any room to breathe. The Israelis need to make it absolutely clear to even the dumbest Palestinian that there simply is no way they can continue their illegal war, that their only choice is recognition or death, and that they must surrender once and for all.

Remember, folks, this is a WAR. Wars end when one party wins, and the other party surrenders. That's the only possible outcome for this conflict. Delaying surrender can only bring the Palestinians more suffering. They've lost. They have no more military power, they have no international support, they are considered criminals by virtually everyone in the world, except for a lunatic fringe, and have no hope left. Time to surrender.

Posted by: mike | Jan 5 2009 19:17 utc | 12

Please read - please watch the reports. Then pass it on.

Coverage of Gaza War

Posted by: bea | Jan 5 2009 19:19 utc | 13

Read back to the Hamas-Fatah battle for Gaza. The numbers talked about then seemed fairly credible (since the big propaganda machines were not cranked up), and I remember that total numbers were in the low thousands. Remember, the actual trigger for that battle was Dahlan moving in his special US-trained "guard" force numbering about 1,000. The fact that this force (as poorly trained as it turned out to be) was strategically meaningful shows the kind of numbers you were dealing with.

Posted by: Bill | Jan 5 2009 19:22 utc | 14

the dumbest Palestinian

Perhaps you will need re-education camps for the mentally retarded and those with Downs Syndrome, Aspergers, etc.

Mike, slothrop has been active on the other thread. Perhaps the two of you can form a tag team to figure out how to slaughter or transfer 5.5 Million people in the name of Jehovah.

More seriously, I lot of analysts are giving the endgame some serious thought, and what the long-term ramifications will be. I can't quite bring myself around to writing anymore lately.

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 5 2009 19:29 utc | 15

The Israelis need to make it absolutely clear to even the dumbest Palestinian that there simply is no way they can continue their illegal war, that their only choice is recognition or death, and that they must surrender once and for all.

Perhaps I don't need to point out that, among other things, "illegal" means different things to different people. A four Israeli man incursion into Gaza to assassinate leadership is considered, by intelligent folk, to be illegal.

Most important, your comment has all the thought out features that a naive fifteen year old boy's comments would have, as historically, your assertion has never resulted in what you say it will, serving only to seed future (and likely more violent), terrorist activities. It has become a mantra of "law and order" political parties that has never been shown to be true except in certain Hollywood scripts.

Posted by: IntelVet | Jan 5 2009 20:05 utc | 16

Zionist propaganda counts on there being no memory of the past several years. Zionists want to deal with the corrupt PA, Abbas, and not the democratically elected govt of Palestine. Fact.

The Zionist blockade of Gaza was to pressure, via the criminal collective punishment, the overthrow of the elected govt. of Palestine. Fact.

Time is not on the Zinonist Entity's side. Who knows what Hillary will bring, so...better have the weak and corrupt across the table. Fact.

The rest is the usual Zionist victim pimp bullshit. Few other than the corrupt, the bought, and the idiot are buying any more. Fact.

Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jan 5 2009 20:18 utc | 17

Not so well written, my post, but fuck it, you get the drift.

Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jan 5 2009 20:20 utc | 18

Delaying surrender can only bring the Palestinians more suffering. They've lost.
Fair enough.
Then, according to your own reasoning, the Jews have no claim at all to these lands, because, you know, actually, they've already lost, big time, and even twice, when they tried to revolt against the Romans. Romans which, indeed, acted like you advise Israelis to do, by expelling the bulk of the Jews out of the whole province, making the Jewish people a tiny minority in the whole of Israel/Palestina for nearly two thousands years.
So, which one is the correct reasoning, the "might is right", or the "our ancestors lived here for centuries, so we have a right to live here as well"? Because, surely, you can't have it both ways here.

Posted by: CluelessJoe | Jan 5 2009 20:21 utc | 19

I read stupidities like the one above advocating surrender for the prisoners of Gaza and wonder whether all amerikans are this dumb or if it is just cruelty pretending to be stupid. How can already trapped people surrender any more. The only surrender the zionists will accept is the Palestinians to give up their right to breathe they have given up everything else and that has been insufficient for the thugs of israel.
As for the alleged rocket attacks well even discounting Israel's deliberate provocations, such as the breach of the ceasefire incursion which allegedly stirred up rocket attacks, most of which appear to have come from the paid and blackmailed mossad stooges in Gaza (those given permission to smuggle a few pitiful commodities into Gaza in return for following orders)the numbers of people killed by rockets don't even amount to 10% of the Israeli road toll, yet no israeli pol is talking of blowing up all the cars. In fact more israelis die in IDF training exercises than are killed by 'enemy' contact.

It's summer here and when I flicked on the vid tube to provide background to my morning cup of coffee, I hurriedly flicked off most news channels - watching the deliberate slaughter of a population does nothing for me and feels like watching porn, I came across the sort of cheap reality TV they show in the summer. Today some local channel was broadcasting a crappy piece of TV called "Animal Extractors". I thought this is how it is amerikans can think that all the Gazains need to do is surrender, they watch these shows and believe the fiction that animals are being 'saved'.

The show is about the contractors called in to exterminate young animal families when young human families in Arizona, Florida, Nevada or New Mexico who have moved into their cardboard subdivisions in what until the year before was a wilderness, actually come face to face with that wildlife. We get great drama when rattlesnakes, alligators or bears are trapped but equally most of the 'relocations' are skunks and other small harmless beasts who have been living in the area long before any human came around.
In order to sell the idea of living in the wilderness 'close to nature' amerikans are persuaded that these animals aren't being killed they are being relocated.
The great unspoken truth is that relocation amounts to extermination. Sure the 'animal agent' moves the captured rattlesnake or skunk to beyond the newly expanded city limits then releases it but even if the agent doesn't actually execute the beast what he/she has done amounts to execution.
Since only x numbers of snakes can successfully exist in y area; a concentration achieved long before, the arrival of a new beast means that one animal must die, either the new arrival (most likely in unfamiliar surroundings, stressed by the shift) or the aged relative whom it is about to replace.

One of the Florida agents nearly let the cat outta the back so to speak. He showed the scars on the captured alligator, scars from a fight with a bigger alligator and commented that that was most likely why the huge lizard had ended up so close to the artificial lake behind the ugly stucco clad tract homes, the lizard had been chased there by a bigger lizard - as more and more alligators compete for less and less space. Embarrassed silence, moving right along, nothing to see here folks.

All of these god fearing folks (some otherwise intelligent middle class woman had told us straight-faced that 'god' had got her up to find the bear in her kitchen rather than her 7 year old daughter) must realise that there is only one future confronting the animals whose habitat they have chosen to occupy yet they convince themselves that this just isn't so.
In the past most humans could differentiate between animals and fellow humans but the deluge of racist anti-arab propaganda has done it's work. And idiots like Mike can straightfacedly say that all the people of Gaza need to do is 'surrender' - that will fix the problem. "Wait there is more" as they say on Mike's TV. They also need to kowtow to the state of israel thereby acknowledging they have no future in the land their families have lived in for thousands of years. That's all they need to do.
What then Mike? Will you help with the extermination or will you just stand idly by as disease and social decay destroy the Palestinians trapped into overcrowded ghettos with no escape, no future and no hope?

Take your murdering racist rhetoric out of here you ignorant unthinking creep! One of these days you will have this happen to you and then we'll see what you think of surrender. Actually a weak stupid person like you would probably surrender, you wouldn't want to miss the next episode of "C.O.P.S." that the gestapo told you was going to be screened at your new camp.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Jan 5 2009 20:22 utc | 20

Lol! The American Zionists are into their black boot and power whip mode on behalf of the welfare state object of religious fanaticism.

How the mighty have fallen.

Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jan 5 2009 20:26 utc | 21

headline from the BBC:
"What is a civilian?"

most of the time i have words to express my feelings (at least verbally), but now there aren't words strong enough.

Am I a civilian?
Are you?
Them?

Posted by: sabine | Jan 5 2009 20:35 utc | 22

Finally re. fringe beliefs.

American polls are not so favorable for the Zionists, that is, Americans, by a large majority, want an "even handed" policy vis a vis the Palestinians and the colonial entity. The bought and paid for American politicos, plus the Zionist owned media don't want to deal with this but eventually they will have to, as the US is led from one disaster to the next by the Zionist amen corner.

Buber or no Buber, look for more and more spasms of psychotic violence.

Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jan 5 2009 20:42 utc | 23

i have no idea why garbage like mike even come here to spew their filth

& that filth takes on such a pornographic tone in this particular moment when the palestinian people are being massacred whil we speak

as troubling for me -, is the indecency of slothrop's mentioning of the the thinkers walter benjamin & martin buber - as if their is a lineage of jewish thinkers who would support either the occupation or of the criminal means used to maintain that occupation

i'd suggest that there are no great jewish thinkers who support this criminality - on the contrary the ' thinkers' who do lend it support are of the 5th rank - they are not thinker per se but apologists, pamphleteerists like finklekraut & bh levy here - in essence the same gang that have been right behind bush from the beginning. all put together they are not capable of original thought & that is one of the revelations of the world since 2001 in france - how for a long time there were giants across all fields of intellectual enquiry

now at the public level at least - there are only small & hollow men

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 5 2009 21:00 utc | 24

Delaying surrender can only bring the Palestinians more suffering. They've lost.

You know, the afrikaners used to say more or less the same s**t about the black peoples of South Africa.

Posted by: C.A. | Jan 5 2009 21:02 utc | 25

The european and american colonizers in Palestina should start going to 'Anonymous Colonizers' reunions with old colonizer fellows like the argelian and vietnamese french, the britisn from Zimbabwe, the russians in Afghanistan and similar tribes.

They will need their help in the future to get decolonized and to try to understand why in the real world (not their sick fantasies) colonization died in the 20th century.

The palestinian on the other hand don't need to learn again the lessons from argelians, vietnamese and lebanease know so well.

Posted by: ThePaper | Jan 5 2009 21:17 utc | 26

I've been waiting to find out what the Israelis really intend to do in Gaza. Many blogs have correctly said that there's no future in military action, and that is true: Hamas will not be eliminated, and will not surrender. Nevertheless, there are also many reports which say that this operation has been in preparation for six months, or two years in other versions. A game-plan must exist, and it must take account of the possibility that Hamas will not surrender.

I would have thought that the solution, for the militarists that the Israelis are, would be to grind through Gaza, in the fashion of Falluja, until there is no resistance left, and then replace Hamas with Fatah. The pictures of heavy artillery firing, already a non-precise weapon, belies their claim of precise targetting. That would correspond to their mentality. A quasi-political solution of compromise is unlikely.

Of course there are some differences from Falluja. First is that images and reports are continuing to get out from inside Gaza. The Israelis don't seem to mind about the consequences. Secondly, the civilian population is trapped and cannot escape. I wouldn't be surprised to hear in the near future that Israel has opened the borders in order to allow Gazan refugees to flee into Egypt. Naturally they won't be allowed to return. Never mind what Egypt thinks.

I don't know whether this sort of strategy will succeed. It seems to me desperate, without regard for the future. But ethnic cleansing must be part of the game. The Serbs in Bosnia did it without thinking of the consequences. I doubt if the Israelis are much more advanced in their thinking.

Posted by: Alex | Jan 5 2009 21:44 utc | 27

The Israelis need to make it absolutely clear to even the dumbest Palestinian that there simply is no way they can continue their illegal war, that their only choice is recognition or death, and that they must surrender once and for all.

Perhaps I don't need to point out that, among other things, "illegal" means different things to different people. A four Israeli man incursion into Gaza to assassinate leadership is considered, by intelligent folk, to be illegal.

Most important, your comment has all the thought out features that a naive fifteen year old boy's comments would have, as historically, your assertion has never resulted in what you say it will, serving only to seed future (and likely more violent), terrorist activities. It has become a mantra of "law and order" political parties that has never been shown to be true except in certain Hollywood scripts.

Posted by: IntelVet | Jan 5 2009 21:44 utc | 28

& in any case mike would be far more welcome at dailykos where silence reigns over gaza - a place where the apologists for the worst excesses of the state of israel find their natural habitat

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 5 2009 21:45 utc | 29

Israel has taken a crowbar to their relationship with Turkey. Zippy Livni just dressed down the Turkish FM over statements by Turkish President Erdogan.

If this were wrestling, I'd say Israel is embracing the role of the heel.

-GSD

Posted by: GSD | Jan 5 2009 22:07 utc | 30

Following my 27, I forgot to add that the other point which differentiates Gaza from Falluja, is the size of the city. A city of a million or so is a different matter from a provincial city like Falluja (but the Israelis, having been inspired by US operations in Falluja may not have noticed the difference).

I doubt b's update figure that there are only two to four hundred active Hamas fighters. Hamas should have been able to recruit more than that, given the desperate nature of the situation. The position is not like that of Hizbullah. Hamas is increasingly identified with the defence of Gaza, and I should think more young men are coming forward.

Posted by: Alex | Jan 5 2009 22:10 utc | 31

bea 13, thank you for the download.

Posted by: annie | Jan 5 2009 22:30 utc | 32

@Alex:

The Serbs in Bosnia did it without thinking of the consequences.

Actually, the vast majority of ethnic cleansing was caused by allied response.

A city of a million or so is a different matter from a provincial city like Falluja

Actually, the cities are the exact same size -- 400,000 or about the size of Pittsburgh.

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 5 2009 22:31 utc | 33

here is my prediction. the will try to evict the people of gaza except for the males which they will them try to kill off a bunch of them and then turn the control over to fatah, but there will still be the rockets into israel, but this time they will be identified (more pointedly) as coming from the islamic jhiad group, the same ones that have been calling for israel to invade gaza so IJ can celebrate their death or something.

this IJ group is the same one that has been launching rockets, supposedly. these guys:

Sun, 12 Oct 2008

The Hamas rulers of Gaza Strip on Tuesday lashed out at gunners who fire rockets at Israel from the Palestinian territory in violation of a seven-week-old calm, calling them Israeli collaborators. "About the rocket-firing, I think those who are responsible are those who collaborate with Israel because there is a consensus by all Palestinian groups to respect the truce," said Dr. Mahmud Zahar, a senior leader of the Hamas movement.

On Monday, a rocket fired from the Gaza Strip landed in an empty field outside the southern Israeli city of Sderot, causing no casualty or damage.

According to AFP, Zahar told a Gaza radio station that the party which fired the rocket was "linked to Israel as they provide a pretext to exercise pressure on the Palestinian people."

After the latest incident, Israel on Tuesday closed the Nahal Oz crossing to Gaza Strip that is used to ferry in fuel and the Sufa passage for food deliveries to the impoverished and blockaded territory. On his part, MP Jamal Al-Khudari, the head of the popular committee against the siege, strongly denounced Tuesday the Israeli decision to close the crossings, noting that the Gaza commercial crossings are already paralyzed despite the calm.

also these guys

Islamic Jihad - the extremist group behind many of the rocket attacks on Israeli towns - has got the war it wished for at least. Amid reports of heavy losses among their allies in Hamas as Israeli troops poured in Gaza, the question is whether they have bitten off more than they can chew.

It was over a year ago, in an interview with The Observer, that Abu Hamza, the head of Islamic Jihad's rocket programme, explained that the goal was to draw Israel into a ground conflict inside the Gaza Strip so that his men would have the chance to "kill as many Zionists as possible".

hamas is simply not evil enough to sway world opinion, but the idea of israel fighting a wacko group called 'Islamic Jhiad' ! this reminds me very much of the cia inspired group run by the al baghdadi guy in iraq, what were they called ? the islmiac state of iraq or something? the one that existed and then didn't exist, who ended up fighting the sunnis so the US didn't have to. i love the way they name themselves such easily identifiable 'bad' names.

anyway..same game that happened w/the secular PLO when israel impowered hamas to begin with.

and then this will provide even a more convincing reason why the palestinians are (supposedly) extremists. IJ is probably mossad anyway.

Posted by: annie | Jan 5 2009 23:24 utc | 34

"Remember, folks, this is a WAR. Wars end when one party wins, and the other party surrenders."

No, the war was in 1948 and the Palestinians lost. Here is the rub. The Germans and Japanese lost in 1945 and they got to stay in their homes. Never lost their land and got their government back. It was war but it was no conquering of territory. Nobody tries to conquer territory any more. Back in the old days Rome or the Mongols and even the Israelite conquered territories and then did what they had to do. Killed the losers.

There is no modern historical model for an established political culture being evicted from their homeland. There are always going to be bitter resentful Palestinians. So what is needed is a final solution. Killing a few hundred here and a few dozen there is absolutely silly and pointless strategically. It isn't going to solve a thing, except in this case get some 'moderates' elected. Any hawk on these matters who does not embrace a final solution is a pussy.

Posted by: rapier | Jan 5 2009 23:28 utc | 35

The Guys with the 'funny scary name' keep getting assassinated
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1041622.html

Posted by: drunk as a rule | Jan 5 2009 23:50 utc | 36

end game?

Just watched Shihab Ratansi on Al-Jazeera/English discuss this with an analyst, who's been on all day - can't remember his name.

The question was: What does Israel want vis-à-vis Gaza?

The answer: maximum control and minimum responsibility. They will turn it over to Egypt, making sure there is no freedom of movement of people or goods into and out of Gaza.

The absence of international/western condemnation of this slaughter is beyond an outrage. I'm jumping out of my skin with rage towards the US, EU so-called leaders, the indifference of the rich arabs. Can Turkey be effective? Twist some arms? How can there not be terrific blowback to Israel or escalation to something even worse from this? Murder and suicide. Does Obama really think he can survive 2 more weeks of this genocide saying nothing?

Posted by: Hamburger | Jan 6 2009 0:19 utc | 37

a very great poet has left us - adrian mitchell - i knew him a long time ago - he fought all his life against power - two poems - that resonate

Posted by: | Jan 6 2009 0:46 utc | 38

me evidently

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 6 2009 0:48 utc | 39

Hold Israel to the same standard of conduct as other lands - by the editor of South Africa's largest weekly newspaper.

....The Israeli government claimed it was just targeting Hamas bases and strategic installations, but in reality it was sowing terror among all Gaza’s inhabitants.

It’s part of the “collective punishment” that Israel has meted out to Palestinians in response to attacks.

This “collective punishment” often takes the form of bulldozing the homes of bombers, razing entire neighbourhoods, cutting a city off from the world (never mind all the attendant humanitarian risks) and indiscriminately blasting suburbs.

Should we have been surprised by this week’s events?

Of course not.

This story has been playing out like this for decades.

It’s just the brutishness and the brazen arrogance with which Israel carries out its terror that has become worse.

And Israel has every right to be brazen and arrogant about the inhumane manner in which it treats Palestinians.

It knows it has the world powers on its side and, no matter how low it sinks in its immorality, it will always be protected by the major powers.

I was unfortunate (it’s definitely not fortunate to witness horror) to have seen the raw work of the Israeli state first hand during a visit to the region during the middle of 2008.

The group that I was part of visited many parts of the country and saw advanced apartheid at work.

I remember thinking then that not in their worst hour of depravity could the Nats have been so vile. So vile that it has traumatised and disgusted many of those military conscripts and officers who are meant to enforce Israel’s authority over the Palestinians.....

Obama will look the other way and find all manner of justifications for Israel’s brutality.

The victim will continue to be seen as the aggressor.

The Western world’s unquestioning loyalty to the state of Israel will ensure that the world’s most oppressive state will continue to behave in an inhumane manner for decades to come.

For only when the powers that really matter tell Israel in unequivocal terms that the evil that it perpetrates is unacceptable will Tel Aviv wake up and realise that it has to behave in a manner expected of those who live in this century.

Israel is part of the global community and is a signatory to many of the conventions that govern human conduct in the modern era.

We should abhor what it does in exactly the same way that we abhor Russia’s terrorism in Chechnya and its aggression in Georgia, Robert Mugabe’s violation of human rights and his deliberate starvation of his people, China’s jackboot treatment of Tibetans, and the Burmese junta’s oppression of that country’s people.

In our country, we have many apologists for the Israeli state who treat any criticism of Israel as anti-Semitic diatribe.

That it certainly isn’t.

It’s about expecting a modern state in the modern era to behave in a civilised manner.

The state of Israel has every right to defend itself against aggression and to secure its citizens.

But no state has the right to do that at the expense of the human rights and right to life of innocent civilians.

Posted by: bea | Jan 6 2009 1:58 utc | 40

Resisting to Protect Our Own

Safa Joudeh, writing from Gaza:

All Palestinian factions have united and are out facing the enemy, using all of their military capabilities that they collectively have. Although these capabilities are incomparable to the military strength exerted by Israel, yet it has made us more certain than ever that Palestinians will fight to the very end to protect their own. It has shown us that resistance, courage and love are an integral part of the Palestinian identity that will never change despite all the hardships we endure. It has given us a moral boost, which comes at a time when we need it most.

The Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades of The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the al-Quds Brigades of the Islamic Jihad movement, The Izzedin al-Qassam brigades of Hamas, the Salah al-Din Brigades of the Popular Resistance Committees, the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades of Fatah have all come together as one united front and at a high, almost affirmed risk of peril, are out protecting our streets and our homes, ready to die if that means preventing the death of one more helpless child. We are united and we have accepted our fate recurrently, but the people of Gaza -- almost 80 percent of them refugees -- will not be massacred and displaced yet again by people from the outside guided by tyranny and greed.

There are estimations out there as to the collective count of the united military resistance fighters from the Palestinian factions, the number is thought to be a few thousand. The Israeli troops within and around Gaza at this moment are approximately 33,000, with more reservists being called in within the next day. The disparity is not only in troop numbers, however. The Israeli forces are supported by the Israeli navy and the Israeli air force. The ground forces include artillery, tanks, engineering forces and intelligence agency support. The Israeli soldiers are equipped with the most modern weaponry and intelligence devices.

Posted by: bea | Jan 6 2009 2:09 utc | 41

Well, by the calculation that has been used lately--i.e. counting all "military age" males in Gaza as "Hamas fighters," the final number will be about 750,000, I'd guess. Something tells me that, in the end, we will eventually hear of comparable numbers to justify what Israel will have wrought.

Posted by: kao_hsien_chih | Jan 6 2009 2:59 utc | 42

Jesus! 33,000 + navy and air force. And, as the Zionists claim, all for a few petty bottle rockets. Now, how is this not like Warsaw? This is really unprecedented. By going for broke like this, they expose themselves to everything backfiring big-time.

I should say that someone mentioned here -- I think to a Zio-troll -- that we were all into nonviolence around here. Well, for the record, I never have been. I think its a great first option, even a second and a third. But I believe that oppressed people have the right to protect and defend themselves.

Certainly, Jews have never had a problem cheering all the films which show Jews defending themselves in WWII.

I think what Safa Joudeh wrote is very moving.

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 6 2009 6:29 utc | 43

By the way, Mike #12 states, "Remember, folks, this is a WAR."

As defined by Wikipedia, WAR is the reciprocal and violent application of force between hostile political entities.

Most of the violence in Gaza has not been reciprocal in any way, certainly not during this last ceasefire, which Israel continually and provocatively violated attempting to goad the Gazans.

When the Palestinians started actively resisting, it often took the form of children -- hardly what I would refer to as a "political entity" --throwing rocks at tanks. The Zionists, by intentionally targeting families with young children, turn these feshly murdered innocents into "political entities" as faithfully as a priest might turn a wafer into the body of Christ.

Zionists always betray their hand by first equating the power dynamics of the two sides (before denying the humanity of the "other").

Less Orwellianly, and more accurately, I would refer to what we are seeing as an occupation and a resistance. I believe those would be the correct legal terms, also.

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 6 2009 6:56 utc | 44

Loefing has posted on ET a map of Israel/Palestine that needs no words and tells it all.

Posted by: Fran | Jan 6 2009 7:33 utc | 45

Sorry, should have tested the linken before hitting the post button.

Loefing has posted on ET a map of Israel/Palestine that needs no words and tells it all.

Posted by: Fran | Jan 6 2009 7:37 utc | 46

I think you are mistaken.

a) Gaza youth has had nothing elese to do for a long time.

b) they had the Israelis to practise for a long time.

c) the fittest and most intelligent leave Israel. the fittest and most intelligent are stuck in Gaza.

d) define fighter in this context of assymetric war. anybody can fire a rocket, especially now they have become more intelligent in setting them up.

e) what they seem to have done is they got themselves really organised and learnt a few tricks that are working from house to house.

Posted by: outsider | Jan 6 2009 11:38 utc | 47

I think you are mistaken.

a) Gaza youth has had nothing elese to do for a long time.

b) they had the Israelis to practise for a long time.

c) the fittest and most intelligent leave Israel. the fittest and most intelligent are stuck in Gaza.

d) define fighter in this context of assymetric war. anybody can fire a rocket, especially now they have become more intelligent in setting them up.

e) what they seem to have done is they got themselves really organised and learnt a few tricks that are working from house to house.

Posted by: outsider | Jan 6 2009 11:38 utc | 48

That may be true if the palestinian had something to fight with. This is not Iraq where you could find tons of weapons everywhere. Even if they were willing to die they are unlikely to have received much real training (not going to waste the scarce munition on much training) and even if they are trained I doubt they have enough munition, explosives or rockets.

Gaza is a closed ghetto and the palestinian militias can hardly get any better armament smuggled that what a ghetto band in the US could get to fight some rival band or police.

In any case even with such limited resources they may try to inflict some casualties in close contact through guerrilla tactics and pre placed explosives. Already the terrorists are starting to sound really pathetic with the 'friendly fire' excuses.

Posted by: ThePaper | Jan 6 2009 13:00 utc | 49

That may be true if the palestinian had something to fight with. This is not Iraq where you could find tons of weapons everywhere. Even if they were willing to die they are unlikely to have received much real training (not going to waste the scarce munition on much training) and even if they are trained I doubt they have enough munition, explosives or rockets.

Gaza is a closed ghetto and the palestinian militias can hardly get any better armament smuggled that what a ghetto band in the US could get to fight some rival band or police.

In any case even with such limited resources they may try to inflict some casualties in close contact through guerrilla tactics and pre placed explosives. Already the terrorists are starting to sound really pathetic with the 'friendly fire' excuses.

Posted by: ThePaper | Jan 6 2009 13:03 utc | 50

The intention is obvious, namely the forced removal of the Palestians for the second time. Apparently, 13,000 have already fled, tho god knows where to!

Bill

Posted by: William Bowles | Jan 6 2009 15:23 utc | 51

The cycle seems to go like this:

Oppress the palestinians to the point some will break and start acting-out violently, then use this as the israeli excuse for violence, pointing out how violent the palestinians are, ignoring israeli actions that ignited the violence in the first place. The beauty of this is that the israelis don't even need any violent palestinians to act out, they only need to create the conditions so the world at large would believe the palestinians would be willing to fire a few rockets. When the rockets come, nobody is surprised because look at how those poor, violent palestinians are living.

If you have ever watch police break-up a demonstrations it is very similar, but on a smaller scale. First the police create an atmosphere of oppression, forcing the protesters into confrontational situations (bringing horses through crowds which is dangerous, physically pushing people back, ect) and when protesters (usually the young and hot-headed or a better word, more passionate) of the group start to resist the cop's tactics the cops use this as an excuse to break heads. The government resorting to violence against protesters does two important things: Authority is able to find and label the most passionate citizens who resist, and it sends a very powerful message to the rest of the citizens to get with the group-think of the oppressors or face personal attacks at the hand of the government.

In almost every horrible, violent public vs police confrontation we've seen, it is the authorities that are the aggressors. The power structure loves this, because it reminds problem-makers they can be physically harmed by the police and usually without any recourse. If, by a one-in-a-hundred chance, the victim is able to file charges and wins, it is the individual cops that get in trouble and the taxpayer who pays all the cost.

This is what has happened with all the war crimes in iraq and will be the outcome of any war crimes that are brought against israel too. The powerful never pay for their crimes. They will let the small-fry be tried instead.

Violence will always beget violence. Even Judo requires an attack to defend against and those who turn the other cheek too much end-up bloody or dead. The laws of nature are that if you are attacked you should defend yourself with what ever is available. To not do so is silly and a sure sign of mental illness. This is the law of the jungle.

Israel is like a cat sitting on a palestinian mouse, playing with their food before they finish killing it. They should not be surprised when the mouse tries to bite and defend itself.

dave

Posted by: David | Jan 6 2009 15:30 utc | 52

Good to see you over here, Bill. I read you regularly.

Dave: Until activists understand this mechanism they cannot successfully confront power.

It is the general public's belief in the goodness of government, hammered into us from day 1, that interferes with them being able to believe that the government would ever do such a thing. So, to effect change, one must spend a good deal of time waking people up, or wait until the government does something so unbelievably cruel as to break through the veil of cognitive dissonance.

Which could be happening now in Palestine.

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 6 2009 16:06 utc | 53

Malooga@53

I agree,

The palestinians are "lucky" that they are being oppressed by israel because their plight receives a bit of media attention, usually bad, but they aren't suffering in a compete vacuum like so many other oppressed peoples. I doubt that changes how being killed and maimed feels, but like south africa, there is a chance the average joe will be sick and tired of seeing the obvious abuse and they might do something. But it's doubtful.

More likely is that with the economy contracting, most people will be too worried about feeding their babies to worry about what is going on in palestine. looking through photographs of a NY city protest, there was one of an arab girl holding a sign that said "we'll never give up" which seems an odd phrase for a sign-holder in NY to have...her family has already given-up and moved away. Smart people if you ask me, but kind of hypocritical too.

Maybe the war with iran will be a mercenary affair with israel paying soldiers minimum-wage out of Barney's billions to fight against their enemies. Turn the middle east into a giant arena with robot cameras documenting the deaths for those of us back home...

Dave

Posted by: David | Jan 6 2009 16:31 utc | 54

Clearly every battleground these days is also a testing ground for the use a "new and improved" generation of "humane" weapons. The developers of these objects of forcible coercion sit watching before video screens in a frenzy masturbating at the grim effects of their sadistic imaginations.

The ultimate goal, of course, is war by robot from a distance, so that the killing is abstract as possible. Some human beings are still believed to have a vestigial mental organ: their morality.

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 6 2009 17:07 utc | 55