Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 13, 2009
Billmon: Flushing the Cheney Administration Down the Memory Hole

Billmon: Flushing the Cheney Administration Down the Memory Hole

I have a strong hunch the political-media complex (i.e. the Village) is going to want to move fairly quickly to the post-Soviet solution I described earlier — skipping right over the perestroika and glasnost to get directly to the willful amnesia and live-in-the-moment materialism of mid-1990s Russia.

Which means, in turn, that Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Feith and the whole noxious crew are about to get flushed straight down the memory hole: banished fairly quickly from public discussion and corporate media coverage — in much the way the Iran-Contra scandal (go ahead, Wiki it) was almost immediately forgotten or ignored once it became clear that the fix was in. America apparently had its big experiment with truthtelling and reform in the post-Watergate era, and the experience was so unpleasant that nobody (or nobody who counts) is willing to go there again.

Comments

Maybe. I’m sure the Village (a branch of the MICFiC) would prefer this collective forgetfulness. If, on the other hand, we are heading for the Greater Depression, conditions might lead to major instability and a turning point. A charismatic leader with an understandable story of how a great nation was stabbed in the back might gain a following.
Depending on who was blamed for the stabbing, and the theory of how it was done, and the proposed remedies, it might even be progress.

Posted by: mistah charley, ph.d. | Jan 13 2009 15:05 utc | 1

I’m already mad enough as it is that the Bushies committed a plethora of crimes here and abroad, but I’m even more mad that Team Obama isn’t uttering a word about wanting to prosecute any of the Bushies for any of their various crimes. As to why this is so, all I can figure is that if the Obamaites successfully convict any of the Bushies for their crimes, then they themselves will no longer be free to get away with committing Bush-league crimes as well.

Posted by: Cynthia | Jan 13 2009 16:05 utc | 2

Billmon rather ignores the way stories are generated by competition between the blogosphere and the Village, this very post being one example of such a story.
Lots of stories will rocket all over the place, but whether they rise to the level of legal action is another question entirely. And though I’d be surprised if the hundreds of billions squandered in Iraq ever caught on with the public–even if elements in the government pursue them forever–I bet the Plame story, and the torture stories, are here to stay.
Does Billmon watch too much television?

Posted by: alabama | Jan 13 2009 16:20 utc | 3

one way to keep it alive is for the arrest of anyone from the administration for war crimes when they travel overseas. Can’t really understand why it did not yet happen to Blair the criminal.. so perhaps the Bushies will get away with it cause the “change” dude ain’t gonna do anything.
Still the laws in europe are a bit different where a citizen can initiate an arrest warrant. I hear this why Henry the K does not go to europe and perhaps we need to put the bush/neocon crowd on that arrest list.. and lets not forget the enablers (both the Dems and Repugs) in congress as well.
so the only place they will be able to travel to is Israel and and the Saudi kingdom without getting arrested

Posted by: sam | Jan 13 2009 16:28 utc | 4

listening to the deluded worldviews, nat’l security outlook, and foreign policy agendae presented @ h. clinton’s hearing today is yet more confirmation that there is no hope from w/i the establishment

Posted by: b real | Jan 13 2009 16:34 utc | 5

there will be loads of material to work w/ for awhile from the transcript of this hearing once it gets published, if one can stomach getting through it

Posted by: b real | Jan 13 2009 17:03 utc | 6

Uh,
The Democrats are as culpable as Bush/Cheney/Feith/Wolfowitz/Libby. Please get a grip on reality. Nothing achieved by the Bush/Cheney Crime Syndicate could have been done without their fake-opposition assistants in the Democratic Party. NONE of it.
Please get a grip.

Posted by: micah pyre | Jan 13 2009 17:53 utc | 7

listening to the deluded worldviews, nat’l security outlook, and foreign policy agendae presented @ h. clinton’s hearing today is yet more confirmation that there is no hope from w/i the establishment
That’s a little late-coming, isn’t it? There was never ANY hope that the “establishment” could or would fix anything. Certainly not from the Democratic Party, anyway. Not from anyone who currently sits in the US Congress. Not from our POTUS-elect.
Where was this “hope from within the establishment” coming from, can you tell us? If you can’t spot the problems and their causes, how can you have any “hope”?

Posted by: micah pyre | Jan 13 2009 17:56 utc | 8

“Obushma” …
Prof. Willem Buiter blogs at the Financial Times site: Spineless in Washington: Obama and Guantánamo Bay

Barack Obama’s lack of moral fibre on this issue is manifest from his own words.
“It is more difficult than I think a lot of people realise”. Indeed, doing the right thing is often difficult and can be personally or politically costly. Difficult decisions should not come as a surprise to the president-elect. It’s what you expect to get on your plate when you run for president of the United States of America, rather than for dog catcher.

Obama also appears to have adopted the Bush argument that Britain and other European countries should take some of the remaining GTMO inmates (other than their own nationals). In his final White House press conference, Bush said: “I understand that Gitmo has created controversies. But when it cam time for those countries that were criticising America to take some of those detainees they weren’t willing to help out”. No they won’t and why should they? Bush obviously hasn’t been in a china shop recently, and appears unfamiliar with the expression: “You break it, you own it”. I can understand the desire of Bushama and Obushma to externalise this internality, but this is a US problem that requires a US solution.

now we witness this dark act being tolerated and continued because of the moral cowardice of the incoming Obama administration. This opportunistic, spineless behaviour is a huge blow to all those who hoped that the new president, unlike his predecessor, would be able to spell the word ‘decency’. It is also a major missed opportunity to restore America’s standing in the world.

Posted by: b | Jan 13 2009 18:12 utc | 9

O is also a liar. He’s picked one of Hilary Rosen’s RIAA suckups for a top doj position. And Little Lawrence Lessig is now backpeddling from net-neutrality. I assume he wants the FCC job.
Charlatans. And I’m a fool for voting for this liar.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 13 2009 18:36 utc | 10

In general, a better written, more entertaining post than his last.
But Billmon still distorts the actual record with a slippery liberal narrative far too much.
This was not exactly a whopping big surprise — it seems to be the way most societies cope, consciously or unconsciously, with the aftermath of a trip through the totalitarian funhouse
No, it is the way most societies cope with Jeffrey Sach’s neo-liberal, “Shock Therapy” economic restructuring, which was designed to plunge populations into poverty and despair so that the West can control all the wealth through corrupt proxies. Almost worked too. Shame on you, Billmon, for eliding the US’s role in a tragedy of epic human proportions. (But then, we don’t really care about those Russians anyway.)
To call this “candor” is either a baldfaced lie — or an admission that you are completely incapable of recognizing the difference between a lie and a truth. And while ABC (like Bush himself) may only be guilty of the latter, not the former, the fact that this produces reporting that is functionally indistinguishable from a lie is telling. It shows just how far the system — specificially, in this case, the Beltway political press — has wandered from reality.
Bush knows when he is lying. Why are you absolving him while pretending you are not?
The system has not “wandered” from reality. It has always functioned this way. Chomsky has spent his entire career documenting this — specifics and theory, perhaps 50 or more books — but who cares about knowledge when making a breezy point on the web? If you don’t like Chomsky — the most respected and quoted intellectual dissident in modern times — go back and read historical US press coverage of slavery and the Indian Wars. That will show anyone that reality has always been “what we say it is.” We wouldn’t have needed a Mark Twain, Ambrose Bierce, Kurt Vonnegut, or Joseph Heller had the system not “wandered from reality.”
There is just a yawning disconnect between the nature of the crimes allegedly committed (and, in many cases, essentially admitted): waging aggressive war, torture, secret prisons, illegal wiretapping on a massive scale, obstruction of justice, perjury, conspiracy — to the point where it would probably take an army of Patrick Fitzgeralds and a full-time war crimes tribunal a year just to catalogue them all — and how the story is being treated in the corporate media.
A clear distortion, or at least mis-reading, of who Patrick Fitzgerald — arch-conservative hero of liberals, burier of official malfeasance — really is, and the function he played for the ruling class.
Give Obama two weeeks and he will have committed every crime you mention above, as have all Presidents before him. The one he will address is the one you don’t mention: open prisons.
It’s not quite Pravda — at least some of the hard questions are being asked, if only half-heartedly
The official narrative of “The War on Terror,” and all of its battlefields, is never questioned in the corporate media; only the “judgement” of individuals.
As to whether we live in a system as lockstep secretive and inhumane as you imply the Soviet Union was, clearly we have been reduced to the Sovietologist’s game of discerning who is standing next to whom to figure out what the next war, attempted coup, purge, bubble collapse, or asset give-away is going to be. A congress where only five are brave enough to protest the massacre in Gaza is a government which doesn’t diverge in any fundamental way from the Politiburo. The same can be said for all of the votes — with Democratic complicity — which preceded and enabled the abovementioned crimes.
And, as in late Soviet times, the absurdity of the official story line is only reinforced by the other systemic failures that surround it: in our case, financial collapse, plunging asset prices, massive fraud and a corrupt, sclerotic political system that may be incapable of doing even the most simple, obvious things (like printing and spending sufficient quantities of fiat money) to stave off an deeper downward spiral.
Just as you refuse to recognize that “Shock Therapy” was intentionally applied to the Soviet Union for political purposes despite their obvious destructive effects to humans — the hundreds of books and studies by respected scholars and the actors themselves, apparently having little effect on you — it appears verboten to ask whether the same “Shock Therapy” might now be intentionally applied by our ruling class to ourselves for the same political purposes.
What you mystify by calling “incapability” is actually a systematic program of asset and pension-fleecing of the middle class and the redistribution of wealth upwards to the ultra-wealthy. Ah well, books will be written about this too in twenty years, and if we are still alive we may read them and reminisce.
What we need now is reporters who are brave and perceptive enough to put the facts together before it is a fait accompli, a historical artifact constructed upon the gravestones of millions, not reporters who lull us to sleep with non-controversial stories of how bad Bush and the press are.
This being the case, I have a strong hunch the political-media complex (i.e. the Village) is going to want to move fairly quickly to the post-Soviet solution I described earlier — skipping right over the perestroika and glasnost to get directly to the willful amnesia and live-in-the-moment materialism of mid-1990s Russia.
Which means, in turn, that Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Feith and the whole noxious crew are about to get flushed straight down the memory hole

Gee, ya really think so, Billmon? See my last sentence above.
All in all, just more entertaining but useless verbiage to fill up the web, our time, and attention span, while leading us astray in our thinking with a few judicious lies larded between the stale truisms.

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 13 2009 18:44 utc | 11

Gee, slothrop, I am agreeing with you more and more these days;-)

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 13 2009 18:46 utc | 12

micah – that eagerness to display your aggressive lack of interpersonal skills, matched only by an apparent dogmatic uber-cynicism, is going to continue to burn you. several of us here have for years argued the case of abolition rather than reform, having long ago understood the institutional & structural limitations inherent in the way our societies have been organized. rather than try to use the words i wrote against me, or whatever strawman you may choose to conjure up, i would suggest that everyone would benefit more by using the very words of the establishment against them. this is what you evidently did not gain from my comment, no matter how quickly tapped out it was.

Posted by: b real | Jan 13 2009 19:15 utc | 13

@Malooga Sigh we have to take the billmons of this world when they are on offer and of use to use, specifically when the ‘enemy’ ie rethug administrations are in power. It became apparent to me during the 04 election that billmon was a partisan, more interested in having his team win than changing the game.
Oh I’m sure he will be critical of the Obama administration, but only within the proscribed boundaries of ‘in the tent criticism’ ie it is difficult to imagine a billmon campaigning for the impeachment of obama when it becomes apparent that the gitmo chamber of horrors will continue or that the wiretapping fisa end run wont be stopped, or that the CIA will continue to torture humans – you know alla the stuff he was so down on shrub about.
The trick is to use these types when they are on offer during a rethug administration without allowing what has happened to too many opponents of empire for too long, that is allowing the dems or their equivalent labour and social democrat parties, to use and abuse us – the ultra leftists, or extremists, or looney brigade or whatever nasty little epithet some junior under-assistant Obama speechwriter is already dreaming up to label us with.
We all know what the Obama myth is planned to be. How amerikans by electing their first african american prez, saved the image of amerika whilst enjoying the benefit of the sort of caring but responsible administration that the usually individualistic amerikans feel a need for from time to time.
For us the interest in the billmons of this world during such a time must be observing the contortions they have to put themselves through to preserve that myth. We all know that there will come a time when they will fail and the carefully constructed edifice of bullshit and mirrors will collapse in front of amerikans.
After all the soviet union didn’t crumble under tough nut Yuri Andropov (funny how nobody remembers that guy now. I actually quite liked the prick) It was post Andropov under the ‘liberal’ Gorbachev that the wheels really fell off. This is what terrifies the hard core rethugs most of all about a dem administration and why Obama is trying to be anything but liberal. Unfortunately for him it is likely to be the dissonance between what he says and what he actually does that brings the empire down, if it is to come down this time. That was certainly the case with ‘Gorby’ whose reforms were mainly window dressing. Gorbachev did nothing to curb the repressive nature of the corrupt infrastructure either.
I have no interest in Dkos it is the natural environment of self serving pricks and their moronic camp followers, at least Billmon saw that and left albeit only for a while.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Jan 13 2009 20:17 utc | 14

Politicians lie?
Who knew?
Next you guys will tell me that Chicago pols teach Sunday school.

Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jan 13 2009 21:05 utc | 15

Sorry, wrong thread.
Btw, the NYT has already inched towards calling Obama a failure. A couple of wrong moves in the ME, and Obama will be Lewinskyed faster than you can say Jeremiah Rezko and Tony Wright.

Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jan 13 2009 21:20 utc | 16

At a discussion at Brad DeLong’s blog, of the impunity of the criminals who rule us, Maynard Handley of blog99 gives the realpolitik explanation of why officials are above the law:

The argument is a pragmatic one, and this discussion is all too moralistic.
Any prosecution would distract attention from Obama’s agenda. It could backfire and hurt his popularity as well as his ability to gain Republican votes. I doubt an American jury convicts elected officers for war crimes, especially given the difficulty of proof and the defense lawyers’ ability to play the threat to America card (and “no attacks since 9-11”!) An acquittal seriously backfires on the Obama administration, making it look vindictive.
The only thing to be gained is a feeling of self righteousness, and there is much policy to be lost.

My own opinion is different.

Posted by: mistah charley, ph.d. | Jan 13 2009 21:40 utc | 17

Mine is too. But that quote above shown by mistah charlie serves to confirm that “we” are locked up in a no-win knot. That is if winning means taking the high moral ground and keeping it.
It has been made very clear lately that the moral ground is soup to be fed to the poor to keep them somewhat satiated, while the bizness of state is done with little reference to right or wrong; only power. Fairness and democracy are so 1990s. Or 80s. Or 60s. But not now. Certainly not now.
It appears that Obama has gone through the little private initiation session given to all new presidents, where he is apprised of who has the power here and what exactly his limits are. (I doubt that session was very difficult for GWBush since all he really wanted was the title.)
Has anyone else noticed that suddenly all the talk about accountability, and what we’re going to do after the new admin is seated, has been muted down to sound like, “Make yourself heard. Write your congressmen. Join our group…” No more expectation that the govt is gonna change all by itself; not the congress, not the executive, judicial, nuthin. Not even the voters since real reform, of the kind necessary to fix things, is way too scary & disruptive of our smooth comfortable day-to-day routine. Nobody really wants it THAT bad.
Don’t worry – the reform will come anyway, and drag the ppl and their crooked rulers kicking and screaming on into the future. Doctor said, “There may be a little pain, but you’ll survive.” If you’re lucky.
disclaimer: this rant was totally off the top of my head. hair is still standing on end.

Posted by: rapt | Jan 13 2009 22:35 utc | 18

O is not going after war criminals. Sure, check.
His betrayal is his defense, econ and doj picks.
He fucking lied.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 14 2009 0:59 utc | 19

Billmon probably regrets that he let some of you sorry asses in the front door of bar. I would not have thought that some would turn like jackels on the original barkeep. O tempora! O mores!.
I can’t get the bad taste out of my mouth.
Who can have forgotten when Billmon was the voice crying in the wilderness? Well memories like these seem to be the ones being flushed down the memory hole. A real commentary craptacular here, of one upmanship and pettiness. Who can have forgotten that Billmon pushed himself to the brink of a nervous breakdown for the sake of a bunch of ingrates and crabapples like yourselves.

Posted by: Copeland | Jan 14 2009 2:34 utc | 20

Micah, by attacking b real you are barking up the totally wrong tree. May I recommend you read more of (I assume) his comments before you pass judgement, there is lots to be learned and many insights to be gained.
I do however agree with your sentiment:

The Democrats are as culpable as Bush/Cheney/Feith/Wolfowitz/Libby… Nothing achieved by the Bush/Cheney Crime Syndicate could have been done without their fake-opposition assistants in the Democratic Party. NONE of it.

I do enjoy reading Billmon’s posts, however his deficiancy is his blindness on the Democrat eye. This post of his being no different. Not a single word about how complicit and compliant the Democratic congress was/is in many of the crimes committed by the Bush/Cheney admin.
Let me quote the way Jurrasicpork at Pottersville sees it.

[…]And Democrats on Capitol Hill are continuing that yellow-legged tradition of spineless capitulation even after two successive elections that gave them, then widened, a Congressional majority. One gets the impression that if the neocons shrank down to Karl Rove and Rush Limbaugh, Democrats would still grab their ankles and look forward to lubrication.
As Glenn Greenwald stated recently, Democrats in this generation have made it almost a religious mantra to capitulate and appease a rabid right wing base that is plainly not interested in cooperating, even when real American jobs and homes are at stake, and brand it as compromise, “reaching across the aisle” and bipartisanship. Unfortunately, the “compromise” that still doesn’t seem to get shit done involves leaving behind a continually disillusioned liberal voter bloc that cannot be reasonably expected to keep voting back into incumbency Democratic politicians that immediately forget them on Election Night. “Reaching across the aisle” has given us foul, corrupt, self-centered ogres such as Max Baucus, Chuck Schumer, Dianne Feinstein, David Obey, Nancy Pelosi and Joe Lieberman. To exasperated liberals, “reaching across the aisle” is a synonym for “reacharound.”
We’re seeing the same thing happening before our increasingly jaundiced eyes with Barack Obama, who may go down in history as being “the whitest black president ever.”
Think about the most vulnerable part of Obama’s campaign, which was at the beginning when Hillary Clinton was crowned the inevitable President-Elect. Remember those dark days when it looked as if we’d have to settle for either Hillary the Goldwater Girl or John “Czech-mate” McCain? Now suppose Obama had said in his stump speeches,
“My fellow Americans, I vow to capitulate to the right wing by immediately diluting my message of tax breaks for poorer Americans, to reinstall the Republican seat warmer at the Pentagon appointed by President Bush, to keep us in Iraq for as long as it takes, to move further away from a single payer health care plan, to keep the Director of National Intelligence in place, to appoint a man with absolutely no intelligence experience whatsoever to head up the CIA and to otherwise capitulate to the crippled right wing in the interests of bipartisanship, impose a loyalty litmus test for anyone wishing to work in my administration…”
…do you honestly think he would’ve gotten almost 72,000,000 votes? No, we’d be looking at President-Elect Hillary, minus 18,000,000 cracks in the glass ceiling and plus 18,000,000 lobbyists in the government.
Yet ceaseless capitulation and Clintonian triangulation is what we’re seeing from the President-Elect and, as Greenwald points out, is old, browned meat being sprayed red and repackaged as something fresh, new and exciting.
The problem with this is that appeasement to the rapidly shrinking right wing of Congress and wringing from it (minus a veto-proof majority in either chamber) watery concessions will look like a smashing success compared to the Hindenberg/Titanic administration of George W. Bush. Now imagine a Jeb Bush presidency in 2016 and before W’s chowderheaded brother is sworn in masons will be blasting out Obama’s spot on Mt. Rushmore….

Amen.

Posted by: Juan Moment | Jan 14 2009 4:26 utc | 21

heh.
We’re seeing the same thing happening before our increasingly jaundiced eyes with Barack Obama, who may go down in history as being “the whitest black president ever.”
Perhaps I shall refer to him, ala Clinton, as “our first truly White President.” After all, running on a campaign platform of promising to “Take Up The White Man’s Burden” in Afghanistan and Pakistan is about as white as you can get short of re-instituting slavery. He hasn’t gone that far yet. (He might if he gets his universal service pushed through.) But he was clear in admonishing Blacks to stop carping about it.

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 14 2009 4:45 utc | 22

there will be loads of material to work w/ for awhile from the transcript of this hearing once it gets published, if one can stomach getting through it

one can’t. I can take about two seconds of listening to this belligerent, clueless, hectoring mediocrity before I lunge for the dial.
I weep for the future.

Posted by: ran | Jan 14 2009 5:10 utc | 23

“he fucking lied”
yep, pretty much whenever his lips move.
another motherfucker in a motorcade (Sisters of Mercy lyrics but it applies)

Posted by: ran | Jan 14 2009 5:15 utc | 24

full transcript for the confirmation hearings today
some excerpts:
on latin america

we want to seize the opportunities in Latin America, which is why the energy partnership that the president- elect has suggested that’s so much potential.
The countries of Latin America are really our closest allies. If you look at trade, if you look at familial relationships, you can see all of these connections. And I think that we’re going to put a new face on American diplomacy as we reach out to Latin America.

on a broader coalition-of-the-killing re iran

we’re going to be looking broadly, but in consultation. And I want to underscore that, because it’s very important that those who have to live in the region, many of whom are allies, Israel and others who have a legitimate set of concerns about Iran’s growing power and its use of that power, should know that the Obama administration will be consulting broadly and deeply.
So that when we move, we will move in concert insofar as possible.

on image-building

The United States is uniquely situated to help the world feed itself and has the opportunities to recast its image by making the eradication of hunger a centerpiece of United States foreign policy.

on vanguards

With smart power, diplomacy will be the vanguard of our foreign policy.

on gaza

I think on Israel, you cannot negotiate with Hamas until it renounces violence, recognizes Israel and agrees to abide by past agreements. That is just, for me, a — you know, an absolute. You know, that is the United States government’s position. That is the president-elect’s position.

“number one threat” “our very highest priority”

The recent commission on WMD chaired by former Senators Graham and Talent was very sobering. Basically, they concluded that the evidence points to our seeing a terrorist attack using nuclear or biological materials some time in the next four years.
You add to that the growing threat of cyber terrorism, which has the potential of disrupting the networks we rely on for all kinds of things, like traffic signals and electric grids and the like, which would be incredibly disruptive and dangerous — I mean, this is the number one threat we face, there’s no doubt in my mind. So we’re going to start calling it such. We’re going to reorganize the department to be better prepared to deal with nonproliferation, arms control and these new threats.
I look forward to working closely with this committee to get the best people we can into the State Department, to work with our partners across the United States government, and to send out a message loudly and clearly that the United States wants to be a leader once again, to control arms, particularly with Russia, and that’s what the START talks will be aimed at doing, and to be much more aggressive in going after nonproliferation.
So this is our — our very highest priority, because the consequences are so devastating.

Posted by: b real | Jan 14 2009 5:27 utc | 25

I’m sorry I should have posted this over here on this thread-oops
This is a mean rant. Not much new in it, probably not even any truth, just my crazy views on life at the moment Obama and bad things. I had to spew this somewhere–try not to get any on you and remember to flush when finished.
The news has me in a funk.
Listening to Democracy Now! Driving home from a buddy’s house and hearing pro-israel supporters at a rally talking about killing Palestinians and sounding exactly like rednecks, but with funny, whiny accents. They were vomiting hate and shitting-out horror fantasies of what needed to be done to Gaza. After about three minutes of their racist anger, the program switched to a group of jewish folks condeming israel’s actions, and voicing their support for the Gazaans.
This group, by design or luck sounded like scholars compared to the hate mongers, when discussing the plight of Gaza and the horrors caused by the IDF. The contrast between how both groups sounded when talking got me thinking, and then I started to feel even worse as I realized I was hearing the voice of typical political thuggery from one group and the voice of the soon-to-be disappeared intellectuals out of the other.
I felt a darker sadness wash over me as I thought about what is about to happen in the world… And I’d suggest you find extra copies of the books you care about, and hide them someplace very, very safe.
History is the same tired, three-act play preformed over and over. The script doesn’t change; the leading actors spend most of their time lying and seeing who can bugger the most extras before the curtains close. Think Caligula, the movie, and the moment his lard-covered fist…Which shows how things have gotten worse, as they don’t even bother with the lard these days.
I’ve read too many books, too much about history to see any quiet future left for me. Instead I see but a bunch of those “interesting times” the Chinese like to curse others to enjoy.
I think reading Bradbury’s Fahrenheit 451 and Fitzgerald’s, A Diamond as Big as the Ritz would show you some of the possible futures we might experience. But there is also part of me that could be convinced of a future earth as seen though the eyes of Douglas Adams
I feel like I’m viewing the past through a stained-glass window; the exact same scene, but a different color and shade, depending upon which pane you choose to look through. Looking out my magical multicolored window at the Obama moment and I can see many different possibilities through the slices of tinted glass.
I have the most unpleasant feeling come over me while thinking about what the next months of Obama’s administration are likely to bring. The sensation is similar to food poisoning in that I don’t know if I want to puke, shit or both.
It isn’t that Obama himself makes me sick. He is just another in a long list of actors who play their part with enthusiasm and gusto on the public stage. He’s done a damn fine job of saying his lines and making his audience believe he is the second coming of both dead Kennedys, and the Black Jesus, all rolled-up into one.
America’s Summer-of-Love-Woodstock-hippies let Nixon walk and ended up voting Reagan into office after tiring of the touchy-feely former nuclear submarine commander called Carter.
They did this while snorting coke in urban hot tubs and proclaiming that, “Greed was good!” which they have continued to shout loudly for 29 years, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
The Baby Boomers, which are a mighty generation of massive, mindless, television worshiping degenerates who have, though laziness and ignorance, squandered the country their parents and grandparents saved pennies to buy–while fighting two terrible world wars to protect (well, at least this is what they thought they were fighting for.)
Voting Obama into office is a wishful, wistful way the spoiled generation of Boomers is hoping to prove they didn’t really sell-out and the “justice” they fought for was finally realized. This, they think, will be their legacy when like Bush’s, it’s just more of the same old crap, repackaged all nice and touchy-feely.
“Oooh, we’s finally gots us one of them colored fellows elected president, damn ain’t we progressive?”
Obama will do to and for the average black dude, what the typical white politician does, and that’s screw him. Just like what happens to the average white dude and average Hispanic dude, ect. I just wonder how hard a screwing the middle class will take before they wake-up and realize their poopers hurt even worse than before.
The reason for their rectal pain is easy to understand, what will happen because of it is another thing.
I’d venture to guess the voting-block that brought Obama to the white house will refuse to see the obvious, like the emperor who’d heavily invested in a new set of clothes. This combined with their increased chance of age-related dementia, prescription drug use and general grumpiness will give the State an endless army of rats, informers and willing prison guards who all vote Democrat, so they can’t be evil? Can they?
I don’t want to believe that a society that can give us Dunkin’ Donuts, the Internet and Madonna is but inches away from stepping right back into some backwoods bullshit past. But from where I sit it looks like it wouldn’t take a very big, or very slippery, banana peel to cause us to slip right back into some feudal freak show with thumb screws and hot irons.
Them good old Inquisition dayz are here again, Dawg.

Posted by: David | Jan 14 2009 5:28 utc | 26

Dinner party with George Will, William Kristol, David Brooks aaannnddd OBAMA!

Posted by: b | Jan 14 2009 5:56 utc | 27

Copeland @ 20: I doubt that gaseous assholes like Malooga ever heard of Billmon back in the good old days. They’re just crashing the bar–and trashing it in the process–out of ignorance and preening malice.
This is easy enough to do, given the disappearance of folks who were hereabouts back when. More puzzling, to my mind, is b’s apparent indifference to it all: perhaps he no longer thinks of this place as a bar, or of his role as that of a bartender. He just lets these characters state the obvious in an endlessly solemn way, as if no one had a clue as to what’s been going on.
They are of interest, though, as specimens of rhetorical flimsiness, feebleness, and decay. Candidates for Pope’s Dunciad :
Silence, ye wolves, while Ralph to Cynthia howls,
And makes night hideous–answer him, ye owls!

Posted by: alabama | Jan 14 2009 7:36 utc | 28

I did have something of substance to add to the discussion, it is billmon’s comment to the Jay Rosen Presslink article about how journalism acts as a gatekeeper for what is allowed to be discussed.
In essence the article boils down to the fact that there are three areas of discourse: understood truths (US is good, support of Isreal, the Constitution allows free speech) which are undisputed, an area of debate (more vs. less support for the welfare state, abortion etc.) where journalism can advocate or engage, and finally the fringe opinion which gets no traction or mention whatsoever (Us imperialism, the sameness of the two major US political parties).
It is a good article and well-argued in my opinion. Reading the comments there are the usual trolls and fakers, and others who try to bend the discussion towards their own agenda, but also some quality same-level responses that engender a response from the author.
One of these is from our man billmon, with the response quoted below.
Note that the “donut” is a diagram used by Daniel Halin as quoted by Jay Rosen as the source of his piece:
“It’s easily the most useful diagram I’ve found for understanding the practice of journalism in the United States, and the hidden politics of that practice. You can draw it by hand right now. Take a sheet of paper and make a big circle in the middle. In the center of that circle draw a smaller one to create a doughnut shape. Label the doughnut hole “sphere of consensus.” Call the middle region “sphere of legitimate debate,” and the outer region “sphere of deviance.””

Jay’s doughnut analogy accurately describes the mechanics of how consensus is manufactured, but I don’t think it really captures the intentionality in the process.
The established media — particularly the Washington-based political media — are not passive agents here. They have an overt bias for consensus and against “deviancy”, which means they want the doughnut hole to be as big as possible and they want to exclude as much “deviancy” as possible from admission to the sphere of “legitimate” debate.
The result is that the doughnut itself keeps getting thinner. Issues, particularly big issues, tend to migrate inward, into the sphere of conventional wisdom (the intelligence proves there are WMDs in Iraq; financial deregulation promotes economic growth; the Social Security system is going bankrupt) while alternative — or even worse, radical — points of view, which might enliven the sphere of “legitimate” debate are consistently excluded.
But the gatekeepers are hardly value neutral. As Jay notes, they largely reflect the biases of their sources — but they also tend to share those same biases, the common denominator of which is the need to preserve the power and privilege of the status quo, of which the gatekeepers are themselves a part, and not a trivial one.
Even the exceptions to the rule tend to prove the larger point. Based solely on the evidence, for example, the issue of global climate change should have long since migrated inward to the sphere of consensus. But the establishment media, by and large, stubbornly preserves the fiction that there is a legitimate scientific debate — much as an earlier generation of journalists (their salaries partially funded by the Marborough Man) helped drag out the “debate” over the health hazards of smoking.
It’s hard to overlook the pattern here: Issues or ideas that pose a threat to powerful interest groups (sometimes based on voting power, as in Jay’s example of David Brody being admitted to the Meet the Press charmed circle, but more often based on financial or bureacratic power) get treated one way by the gatekeepers; issues or ideas that benefit those same groups are handled another way.
I know it sounds shrill, but instead of a doughnut I’m sort of reminded of Hannah Arendt’s totalitarian onion, in which each layer shields the one underneath from contact with external reality, creating a perfectly self-contained pseudoreality in which the party (and/or The Leader) can always be right.
Fortunately, we don’t live in a totalitarian society, so there are inherent limits on the gatekeepers’ ability to follow their own biases to such extreme ends (one of those limits, thank God, being the rise of interconnected media). Still, Big Media had its dysfunctional way in the public forum for many years, the result being that we now find ourselves and our democracy (such as it is) in a pretty big hole.

I’m posting this to further the discussion but also in the hope that Alabama, who I respect, will not piss off Malooga, and vice versa, who I also respect. Your differences may be over religious or sanctity issues, or Malooga’s outspoken criticism of Israel and US leaders, or what else I don’t know. You both have enlightened me and I appreciate that.
But Alabama, as far as I know he has been a member of this audience for years, just as you and I have been. So his attacks on the guy who first got me interested in the relationship of politics and economics are at the least well informed.
I have to say that I too find the writings of Malooga bitter fruit but all the same he brings valuable focus to our discussions here.

Posted by: jonku | Jan 14 2009 8:15 utc | 29

The point is that we want Cheney and his cronies to just go away and no longer trouble us with their presence. That’ how we dealt with they while they were still in office, just keep them out of sight at some Undisclosed Location.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Jan 14 2009 8:17 utc | 30

Billmon is a gifted writer and has great insights but I don’t know anyone here or back at the original bar who agreed with him about everything. I value his perspective but I also value the perspective of Malooga, Alabama and a majority of the people here. The chasm of ignorance is a terrible thing to spelunk alone. Shall we rage upon raw meat?
Billmon’s pieces were never all masterpieces but his occasional hits that brought it all into sharp focus were great. While his past prodigious output was too taxing to last, he did seem to have a flow that produced more pearls for us swine. Billmon doesn’t need groupies or defenders. I use to think he may need a bodyguard. Maybe he did too.
And if that isn’t love,
it’ll have to do
until the real thing comes along.

Posted by: biklett | Jan 14 2009 9:22 utc | 31

@Copeland #20, alabama #28:
Who can have forgotten when Billmon was the voice crying in the wilderness?
I can’t speak for others, but I certainly don’t.
Billmon was like magic for me. He taught me and he entertained me. He woke me up to the potential of writing and the web. And he attracted a brilliant stable of commenters — the core of which remains to this day. Truly, I wouldn’t be who I am, if not for him. I still remember the night when I, recovering from surgery and unable to sleep from the pain, read him and his commenters with a fervor verging on prayer… until the rosy fingers of dawn appeared through the window behind the wan screen, and I realized that I had — in an intellectual way — fallen in love.
I went back about a year and a half ago and downloaded what I could find of his website and spent about four hours poking through the booty, re-reading some of my favorite pieces and tracing the emergence of different of my favorite commenters.
His economics pieces were great, and many still hold up very well. My favorite piece was the one where he traced the Presidents – the ideas they and their parties stood for — and their opponents as a Hegelian thesis, antithesis, synthesis continuum: I learned — and understood — more about American history in one hour than I had in twelve years of school. In a word, the man was simply brilliant.
Later, he moved from deep analysis to short, pithy, often humorous feuilleton, which I also enjoyed, but did not find incomparable, as his previous posts had been. Others could also pen them, and to me, some of his uniqueness and the sheer sustained depth of his insight had been lost. His method of exposing ripe hypocrisy by juxtaposing a set of quotes over time has been adopted by many on the web, most notably our very own b, right here at the new bar. (By the way, b has proven himself far less petulant and reactive to criticism over time, and a far better investigative reporter, if not his equal in style, which no one was or is. Of course b is writing is his second language, but then so was Isak Dinesen.)
But the goal of the student is not to apotheosize the teacher and stagnate, but to truly honor that teacher by growing beyond him. I did that with my childhood hero, my Uncle, who taught me about baseball and the world with love and tenderness. One day I woke up and realized that he revered Nixon, and supported the war in Vietnam. I shed a tear and moved on in my intellectual journey, with respect for what I had learned — especially in baseball, where I was taught as a batter to really get into the pitcher’s head and suss out what he was thinking. I had learned the greatest lessons: to think for myself, and to put myself in another’s place.
And I continued on my journey with Billmon. I learned from him, and I learned to think about Politics from him. One mustn’t forget Billmon at his best: How his coruscatingly bitter cynicism, albeit always couched in a velvet glove of irony and humor, encapsulated a wise worldview of how the motley crew of weak and tragic humans, whose pretense it is to lead us, really operated. Billmon, at his best, had the rare ability to channel the sarcasm of Swift, the humor of Twain, the irony of Bierce, and the sociological insight of Mencken. It was an unparalleled gift.
I’ll never forget one night, having spent three hours fully digesting “The Best Billmon Ever” and the three hundred comments which followed (I was far too shy and insecure to comment myself in those days), that I introduced my brother, also a big-time financial reporter, to Billmon. I sat impatiently, reading the post for a second time over my brother’s shoulder as it glowed in the Netscape browser on the dusty 15″ cathode ray tube barely visible through the forest of post-it notes sprouting like an invasive cancer from the periphery and threatening to take over the whole screen. Finally, he stirred. “What do you think,” I asked apprehensively. “He needs an editor,” was my brother’s entire laconic response. Clearly, I learned, Billmon was an acquired taste.
So what happened, you may ask. Simply put, I grew and Billmon shrank.
In a better world, I would have no interest in politics whatsoever, but would spend my days making art. A dozen years ago, I was rebuilding a life which had completely fallen apart. I needed faith, and part of that faith was a naive faith in the system, in the essential justice of our society. After all, we finally had a Democrat, Clinton, in office. He might not be perfect, but surely things were getting better.
Then came that ridiculous exercise in impeachment, along with that sanctimonious prig of a Grand Inquisitor, Ken Starr. The whole thing stunk so bad I could not ignore it. As I was working as a computer programmer, I had discovered the web, and I began reading about politics and listening to NPR. I thanked God Clinton was bombing the hell out of Milosevic. (Well, you can see that my political views have evolved!)
Anyway, I thought of the whole affair as an odd one-offer, an inexplicably unique event, until the first stolen election. I followed that campaign very closely; Gore wasn’t perfect, but I liked him. And I simply could not believe what was happening. When I wasn’t reading every Democratic blog and website I could find, I was glued to NPR. I still remember sitting in my car in Chinatown, waiting for my meal-to-go to be ready, when I heard the Supreme Court’s decision reported. This, to me, was like the second plane hitting the WTC. A pattern was becoming apparent. The aftermath was even more strange to me. Gore conceding. NPR’s swift change of gears, “Move along folks. Nothing to see here. Nothing to see here. Move along.”
I was raised to be a scientist when I grew up (very useful in my counter-culture days), and parts of my mind still work that way. I knew that I needed to collect more data, and I knew that I needed to find theories which could account for the events and behavior I was witnessing. I continued reading on the web.
But I still had a strong liberal faith in the essential goodness of the system, and the possibility of reform – a faith that shattered unexpectedly a year later when the two planes crashed into the WTC. A decade earlier, my father had worked in Building Two on the 95th floor, the very spot where the first plane entered the North Tower. I could envision what the person sitting at that desk must have seen coming at him through the window. I remembered those buildings being built; my father and I used to go to the site weekly and watch the progress; they were almost a part of me. And, because my father had been an engineer, I had gotten a structural tour of the building before the floors were built out; I had seen every single girder and rivet that NIST later wrote about, and even have a core of the concrete flooring as a paperweight. I was no longer just a spectator to history.
In the ensuing years I continued to learn slowly and grow. I discovered Daily Kos soon after its inception, and don’t want to really admit how many hours I frittered plowing through many swamps of comments. And I discovered Billmon, and the late great Steve Gilliard, within a month of them starting their blogs.
But the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq forced me to grow in different ways, too. It wasn’t until I discovered Chomsky’s pre-invasion talk on “US Grand Imperial Strategy” that I began to look beneath the surface politics of the corporate media and understand the interests and motivations of Nations. When I read “Manufacturing Consent” I felt as if the veil had been lifted from my eyes, and I could finally decode events. I listened to NPR manipulate the public into accepting what was essentially the West’s imposition of Karzai. Zinn’s “People’s History of the United States” taught me that Nations are not monolithic – that my interests and George Bush’s were not the same. The short comic book, “Addicted To War,” along with Blum, Churchill, and Parenti gave me a concise understanding of war and the US’s actual record.
I had begun doing Radio – hosting a weekly four hour political program. My work often involved up to forty hours a week of interviewing and listening to tape of every single intellectual, analyst, writer, and commenter who interested me as I planned programming. I attended the Boston Social Forum and developed another set of contacts and ideas. And I discovered more subversive, less mainstream sources. Wade Frazier’s amazing website was very influential in getting me to contextualize politics within the development of mankind, as well as to understand the small-minded conspiratorial and vindictive nature of government power. So was Ken Knabb’s – who bravely continues to attempt to fuse radical politics with Buddhism; it was he who introduced me to the Situationists and Debord. Another veil falling. And another. And another, yet.
By now, of course, I was also reading Billmon, and then MOA, and following every link and reference I could: learning from the wisdom of so many posters; ferreting through Uncle $cam’s thousand and one Alice in Wonderland-like rabbit holes, never sure where I will end up when I finally poke my head to the surface; and researching every text and author that r’giap, with his prodigious mix of praxis, learning and sensitivity, and others, cited: Benjamin, Althusser, Bourdieu, Foucault, Baudrillard, Gramsci, Frank, Wallerstein, Smith, Ricardo, Ronald Wright, Roy, Said, Fuller, and Marx, of course, among many others.
The point here is not to present a complete history of my intellectual development; that would be impossible even if I had wanted to. The point is that I was constantly growing, thinking, refining fresh ideas, testing out new theories, and yes, making mistakes and getting lost in cul-de-sacs, too – but I was thinking critically, and I was taking information from as many different fields of intellectual inquiry as possible in order to build up as syncretic and humanistic a world-view as possible.
Meanwhile, over all these years I had been attending a monthly poker game along with my brother, attended by all of the big-shot financial reporters in the city I was living in. All of these reporters were liberal Democrats, and thought of themselves as unusually savvy and knowledgeable because of their profession. Every one of them could have argued the relative merits of CDSs until the cows came home. But they could not understand world events, and they were as easily mislead and swayed by blatant propaganda as the average voter.
Surely, Billmon is more than a cut above these people; insight like his can only come from the highest tranche. And he possesses a wealth of knowledge, especially about American history, economics, and politics. And yet, he does suffer from the limits of his profession.
So while I was growing, Billmon was shrinking. No one can fault a man for putting his family ahead of his blogging. But we can fault him for his increasingly blind and ahistorical partisanship – which was not nearly as evident at the Whiskey Bar. And we can fault him for the lazy use of cliché, which he never would have fallen to in his heyday. We can blame him when his writing is not particularly insightful or entertaining, since those qualities were his hallmark.
Sometimes, I wonder why he is still writing. After all, Billmon is Billmon, cited in wikipedia, winner of numerous awards, and known throughout the world, because of the unparalleled excellence of his writing. Go back and do as I did if you don’t believe me: Read his greatest posts from Whiskey Bar, the ones that ran pages upon pages, which you never wanted to end, the ones that set the entire blogosphere atwitter. If he was still writing like that, I would be his biggest fan. But he is not. He is more like a washed-up athlete taking batting practice and missing more balls than he hits.
I will never be the writer Billmon once was; to my mind, nobody is. Chris Floyd has been a journalist for decades; his insight shines for me like Billmon’s once did. But he will never be the writer, the stylist, that Billmon was. And nobody has to agree with me, but I do feel that I, the student, have, in many ways, surpassed my teacher, my guru, in insight and knowledge, if not in style. But that’s just my opinion.
I have no problem with anyone enjoying Billmon’s latest writing – we all have different tastes – but it simply doesn’t compare with his earlier work. It is hack writing. If it didn’t have Billmon’s moniker at the top, if it was one of a thousand posts to Daily Kos every 24 hours, no one would be reading this article and no one would be talking about it. Obama is not going to prosecute Bush? After saying that he wasn’t going to during his campaign… Well, as Gomer Pyle used to say, surprise, surprise!
If people choose to believe that I never heard of Billmon, and don’t remember the “good old days,” (as if this is some fundamentalist religion that must never change) that is their right. If they feel that I am crashing, and trashing, the Holy Bar, they can petition b to have me “dis-barred.” (Bad pun.) I intentionally attempt to challenge people’s thinking, but I have no great need to post here if people feel that I am upsetting them.

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 14 2009 9:28 utc | 32

“Fortunately, we don’t live in a totalitarian society, so there are inherent limits on the gatekeepers’ ability to follow their own biases to such extreme ends (one of those limits, thank God, being the rise of interconnected media)”
This statement of billmons sounds a bit backwards to me. It is because of the “interconnected media” that there is such a problem getting varied opinions from the mainstream media. But maybe our ideas of interconnected media are different.
I do know that since 1990, when media ownership rules first started being gutted, the number of locally-owned publications has declined every year since. I worked in newspapers and watched newsrooms downsized so profits could keep the corporate management class in champaign and caviar. This is what happened to media in america and is why it is so hard to find any mainstream publications that will publish much conflicting national news.
The corporate fucks knew what they were doing every time they eliminated a reporter or photographer from the budget. They were eliminating the very people who would have been able to write stories telling the world what a bunch of dickheads the corporations are being run by. With every paper the corporation would buy a town would watch as their proud/loud local voice became a sqeak.
A recent experience I had dealing with the Contra Costa Times, in California’s Bay Area tells the tale.
I know a lady whose father worked as a reporter for the CCT up through the late 70’s. When he died she ended up with all his old clippings which she thought I might like to look though and find anything I thought might be worth publishing in my little publication.
Her son had found a folder with a really cool story that his grandfather wrote about building alcohol-powered staff cars for the paper during the gas crunch of the 70’s. There was a ton of research into all sorts of wacky alternative powered vehicles, but the neatest part was that they drove one of the cars all the way to Washington D.C. to show congress (I don’t have the story in front of me right now, hence the vagueness of details) but there were photos and notes and clippings from the paper.
This was last Feb or March and I am more of a photographer than a reporter so I thought I’d see if the CCT would be interested in doing a retrospective story using all the information from the files and bringing it up to date with modern examples of flex-fuel cars and maybe use it to show just how much didn’t get done between when the old stories were written and now. Regardless of the angle, it was pretty cool and shows the depth of reporting that was happening at many successful newspapers before they were all closed or ruined.
I have contacts at the CCT and so I was able to talk to the editor of the paper. The paper is part of a chain now and the editor answers to the publisher who now answers to someone in corporate. The original publisher sold-out long ago and I guess I shouldn’t have been surprised when the editor couldn’t understand why this was suppose to be worth doing a story on. I figured in today’s news environment, where staffs are continually reduced and the remaining few are asked to write more, that having a story that’s basically already written would be a good thing.
The editor couldn’t see a news angle for it, even though it was a story done by the paper years ago and could have just been a simple look back. It wasn’t as if I was trying to pimp the story for money, I would have liked the option of buying the rights to publish the story and connect it to my friend locally. But I would have been just as happy to have seen it published in the CCT, for no other reason than it was interesting and it was about an earlier challenging time for energy supplies that I felt would resonate today.
Since it didn’t come from one of the wire services, she didn’t think it could have been worth doing a story on. At least this was my take on it. I could be wrong.
To summarize; We have less media, less distinct voices and more and more McNews because corporations have been able to gut the fourth estate by buying and gutting news outlet after news outlet. By the time the Internet news services have as many readers at the major papers do now, the internet will be under some corporate control so it won’t matter much to them what we think, because we’ll be shut out of this arena too.

Posted by: David | Jan 14 2009 10:08 utc | 33

Thank you Malooga for saying that. I’m inclined to agree. Billmon and a whole host of other popular progressive bloggers have never been able to reconcile themselves away from American exceptionalism, as much of their original appeal was in many ways tethered to the aloof vestiges of it. As is self evident in the current silence (by many of them) over the Gaza slaughter, or the non-criticism of sending 30 thousand more troops to Afghanistan. Their analysis as a result suffers, in not being equally or fairly applied, and not grounded in truly objective presuppositions. The problem of having shed the exceptionalist rose colored glasses is that the bright light of the material truth web is so very dark and daunting, that only an ogre would embrace it. So so ogre on comrade, I got you’re back.

Posted by: anna missed | Jan 14 2009 10:40 utc | 34

So while I was growing, Billmon was shrinking. No one can fault a man for putting his family ahead of his blogging. But we can fault him for his increasingly blind and ahistorical partisanship – which was not nearly as evident at the Whiskey Bar. And we can fault him for the lazy use of cliché, which he never would have fallen to in his heyday. We can blame him when his writing is not particularly insightful or entertaining, since those qualities were his hallmark.
Indeed, and before I go on, Malooga, your#32 was beautiful, I was half way through it, nodding in agreement before I got a clue as to whom may have wrote it, then was not surprised.
The reason I italicized the above is because, Billmon himself has said as much on occasion, and Indeed, who can blame anyone, for looking out for their family, what with dental bills, mortgages, keeping peace with the spouse by keeping food on the table etc, I never ever saw him as a gatekeeper, he had an exceptional way of letting you know when he was risking and tempting his bread and butter. That’s why I respected him so, even in his moodiness, but mostly his honesty in sharing his internal conflicts. David at #33 shines the light on the meta of it. And you are right malooga, before Billmon quit writing this last time, he was as you say, simply brilliant in his ability to suss out the bullshit and further, as you say, “Billmon, at his best, had the rare ability to channel the sarcasm of Swift, the humor of Twain, the irony of Bierce, and the sociological insight of Mencken. It was an unparalleled gift.” But then something happened, I remember thinking, ‘they got to him’ someone replaced him, this of course may or may not have happened, but that’s honesty what I thought. Before the second time he quit writing he toned down his razor sharpened analysis, even his humor waned, when he closed the bar, I was devastated, but knew he had to do what he had to do. He was true to himself, and one has to respect that.
I even remember his (Billmon’s)defending some of my posts, when others weren’t able to believe in the depths these jackals have gone and would go to. But something changed, he began attacking his commentator’s then closed the comment section, I was personally offended when he singled r’giap out calling him a Marxist fruitcake, I was deeply shocked, by that, none the less continued to read him, all the while knowing regulars like annie and others still believed in him, I did too, but never got over his attacking his audience, but, sometimes abruptly but mostly slowly and surely he backed away from his Lazar beam hit’s on the powers that be, and since he’s been back at Dkos, his writing has been watered down to a large degree for me. And like jonku, I value both Alabama and Copeland, but do not agree with their reactions here thus far in this thread.
As most of you know, I eat sacred cow, , no one in my moral and value system is above criticism myself included. Finally, I wouldn’t say I have out grown billmon, he just stopped writing.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jan 14 2009 13:24 utc | 35

Ditto anna missed and thanks, Juan Moment for #21 and thanks each and everyone, whether I agree or not, we all have the right to our experiences and thought’s, opinions etc…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jan 14 2009 13:32 utc | 36

to be honest, i have not read billmon for some time & the only time i wander to dkos is to see how that community is not reacting to this or that event – of watching that old sickness where blindness is seen as a cure
i too value the interventions of copeland & alabama but i will say this outright – i feel a special kinship with malooga & with debs. i think my own sickness has limited my force & range & these two posters amongst many others – give a broader aspect & a deeper truth to what i am sensing. i read their work as if for oxygen
& there is the widening also in the way b has covered far greater areas – literally & theoretically. i know the great majority of our posters do so from the belly pf the beast – but if there is something i am most happy with here – is that the world is taken into view – the u s is not the centre of it & for example b’s work on georgia were breathtaking & breathtakingly quick
where alabama may see gas – i see passion – passion twisted by the darkness of our times & it is not for nothing that brecht should be one of our unacknowledged fathers here – because he was faced with that problematic – how to write in the dark times. & that is what my friend malooga is doing – writing in the dark time. he is not an evangalist nor seeks to be. he offers fruit for us to take & to work with & for that i thank him
style has not counted for much with me – because if you do not have a voice, your own voice – then all the style in the world is not going to help you. in the language i work with mostly – it is often sd that style is all – proust, celine, cioran – but i think the opposite is true – i am much more deeply touched by those who see through other realities & who record & write them. jean genet & juan goyitsolo come to mind or the unparalleled tenderness & toughness of john berger
there are no godheads & once respect has been paid as it must be paid you move on & that is precisely what has happened here & we are the healthier for it
if that sometimes means we lean to a kind of hysteria – then all i ask is too look out the windo, listen to the people you work with, watch how the medias make perverse this wondrous & multiplicitous world & understand that our emotional reactions are normal given the catastrophe(s) we & the world are living through
& what seems most offensive to some people i cherish like sharon or copeland & some others – is that we are saying what is patently obvious – that the democrats will not bring change – how could they & i suggest to these friends that they look to latina america for thier light & now greece because that is where the real hope is being constituted by the only force that can do so – the people

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 14 2009 14:22 utc | 37

Let’s not forget Rumania, rememembereringgiap, which gave us “Four Months, Three Weeks and Two Days”. And as for “voice” and “style”…. How is it that I hear Proust, Celine and Cioran when I read them? Or that I hear you when I read you? How can I not think of you as a writer with an indelible (unforgettable) style ?

Posted by: alabama | Jan 14 2009 16:07 utc | 38

b real —
micah – that eagerness to display your aggressive lack of interpersonal skills, matched only by an apparent dogmatic uber-cynicism, is going to continue to burn you.
I’m afraid I don’t follow you here. So my legitimate criticism of Obama, the Democratic Party, and the need to stop the partisan pissing… that’s attributable to what you say in the above quote, and not to legitimate observations of factual reality?
It looks like you’re the hate-bringer. And on that point — I don’t mind you tossing adjectives and adverbs my way. I just don’t follow your argument, because it’s seeking to distract by focusing on your hypothesis re. my personality. How about you offer criticism of the content next time?

Posted by: micah pyre | Jan 14 2009 18:08 utc | 39

Juan Moment —
Micah, by attacking b real you are barking up the totally wrong tree.
I haven’t attacked anyone. I didn’t even say anything to or about “b real,” but apparently you and he think I did, and you both are assuming that I’m boiling over with vengeful anger toward b real. Hell, I don’t even know what b real thinks. I was commenting on the billmon stuff. I’m talking about billmon.
And no, I don’t recall billmon EVER being a voice in the wilderness. I’ve always seen more reality than billmon. I’ve never seen anything from him that taught me anything new. But then, that’s how I feel about most everyone at Daily Kos, or at Huffington Post, or at firedoglake, or at Salon (i.e. Glenn Greenwald). They’re all fools who are trapped in a static, partisan, puerile feud with “ReThugs.” It’s extremely childish.

Posted by: micah pyre | Jan 14 2009 18:15 utc | 40

i wonder, alabama, if that is why i prefer ‘unfinished’ work as is much of dostoyevsky, mayakovsky, benjamin, hikmet, althusser & genet. edward said too & yes, yes derrida alos has what for me are polyphonic voices where their tone is singular but i do not see an i but many.
it seems especially true in cinema & painting – especially of the last century; i love me my poussin but i would trade all of him for a momentary rothko & in the most potent of his work rothko is absent, in a way the ‘artist’ has rarely been except perhaps the great el greco
alabama, your posts have always been marked by attention, mine unfortunately less so. i hope it is not because i am inattentive or am not conscious of the detail but i know the we is very present, practically & theoretically
there is something that micah has brought & perhaps i have mentioned it before – but i cannot bear the infantilism of firedoglake for example because they are in love with a jurisprudence that simply doesn’ exist, does not even provisionally exist – if there is an enormous hole in civil societies it is that there is no jurisprudence, just the legislation of power – & so there can be no justice. nothing worthy of that name. justice, even as a notion has seemed to dissapear entirel from our world & thus makes possible the horror of gaza

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 14 2009 22:21 utc | 41

I didn’t even say anything to or about “b real,” but apparently you and he think I did
erm, fraudulent misrepresentation
permit me to direct attention to the document of public record — comment #8 — above as primary evidence, proving, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the party’s assertions exhibit a reckless disregard for the truth & stand in contempt of the spirit of this forum
i move that we strike this line of digression now and any forthcoming compensatory damages manifest themselves in the form of substantive contributions that promote a useful exchange of information & communication of ideas and which foster, if not solidarity, that of cogent & congenial critical enquiry

Posted by: b real | Jan 15 2009 0:10 utc | 42

Sustained. Next case please bailiff…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jan 15 2009 0:22 utc | 43

Opp’s I meant, ‘case dismissed’, I just like uttering out loud, in a firm voice, Sustained!…lol

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jan 15 2009 0:27 utc | 44

Western media politicizes information four ways, each addressing a particular modality.
1. agenda (salience)
2. frame (context)
3. teflon (inoculation)
4. consensus (ideology)
Learn their synerby, voila! you’ll never be fooled again, least of all by yourself.

Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jan 15 2009 3:44 utc | 45

PS
I admire Billmon (and b) very much, not least because of the writers he attracted to this site. I admire them all, also, even those with whom I disagree, and who I tweak now and then.

Posted by: Thrasyboulos | Jan 15 2009 3:47 utc | 46

there are no godheads & once respect has been paid as it must be paid you move on & that is precisely what has happened here & we are the healthier for it
if that sometimes means we lean to a kind of hysteria – then all i ask is too look out the windo, listen to the people you work with, watch how the medias make perverse this wondrous & multiplicitous world & understand that our emotional reactions are normal given the catastrophe(s) we & the world are living through

r’giap, you are right and speak justly when you write this. I react abrasively to Malooga to some extent, and debs’ comment was a painful surprise. I know I’ve been flacking Malooga lately for some comments; but I find his tone overly bitter sometimes and the analysis uneven, owing to bitterness. And I don’t see our country through the same lens that he seems to, nor do I believe the country is thoroughly rotten. But perhaps I can’t accept the kind of fatalism that seems to be promoted by Malooga.
I thank r’giap, who I have come to cherish from reading him for years at MoA. And I want to say that Billmon’s former attacks on him were hurtful. But Billmon’s reactions, occasions of attacking the commenters, and shutting down the comment section, were the result of an increasing pressure brought to bear on him, a pressure which at some point he could no longer sustain. I admire b, and I agree that in some respects the experience we have at MoA is broader and more inclusive of the world and is not so parochial.
But on the other hand, b is German; by which I mean there is a difference inherent in perspective, when it is your country that has gone into the shitter for 8 years. And r’giap, my friend, I share you disquiet over the discourse at the partisan blogs, but I do not fully share your conclusion that US jurisprudence is DOA. The United States is still a complex polity built on a constitutional framework, and it is separation of power and pockets of justice, and a number of honorable people, activists, and even some judges, who occasionally surprise us–and prove sometimes tentatively–that there is still some life in our civic values and institutions, a life that pushes back, and I hope will not be put down.
I reacted explosively to what I saw as the gratuitous nature of Malooga’s deconstruction–not just of Billmon’s acticle at KOS–but of Billmon himself.
I bristled at what, rightly or wrongly, I saw as exhibitionism with a patina of snobbery in Malooga. Is it to imply that Billmon is slumming over at KOS, he’s the philosopher who has left the higher world (as in Plato’s allegory) and gone down into the Cave, to dispute with the denizens of the lower world about the shadows of justice and the divine things? So are we to conclude that the man who has “stopped writing” is no longer a worthy, as he no longer associates with the eminences here at MoA?
Malooga can write beautifully and coherently, as he does in the biographical post above, about his intellectual development over time, and the influence Billmon had on him. But I’m upset when people seem disparage not merely the writer to whom we owe so much, but someone who suffered an ordeal on our behalf, an attrition of self, as he struggled with the tragedy of his country.

Posted by: Copeland | Jan 15 2009 5:43 utc | 47

I mostly try to keep quiet in my corner and listen, not only because I lack the mastery of language and the depth of knowledge you all exhibit but also because I lost faith and have nothing useful to contribute. (In a way, perplexity has made me happier: I now care only for what I can change directly.) But this must be said: if you just take a step back and look, this is a beautiful thread, sharp and passionate, with the sort of ruthless yet precise exchange complex minds can afford & which, seen from the right angle, looks a lot like generosity.
My dad used to enjoy listening to soccer games on the radio instead of watching them on TV because, as he explained, it allowed him to follow events by the rising and falling of pitch without paying any attention to the words. In a way, it’s what I do here: even when the ideas don’t move me, I keep coming back for the music. Intelligence is hard to find, you know.
This is very good music. Thanks. Back to my corner now.

Posted by: Pedro | Jan 15 2009 7:08 utc | 48

Just like Pedro said, real good thread.
I too have been coming to this watering hole for years, posting only very occasionally – initially came for Billmon, stayed on (and followed the crowd here) to read the regulars.
On the issue of Billmon – although his most recent writing is now lukewarm, not white hot as it once was, we wouldn’t be in this community of discourse without him.
Our current host, b, deserves our heartfelt thanks as well. Although I disagreed with him on the issue of Tibet, I value his pointing out that the Dalai Lama has taken the CIA’s money – although I offer in H.H.’s defense the Swiss saying (and it goes back to the time of real money – i.e. gold coins – not pieces of paper or entries in electronic accounts) “The blood washes off.” I had already read Willem Buiter’s critique of Obama’s spinelessness on following the law with regard to prisoners, but didn’t notice Buiter’s scathing use of “Obushma” – as Fafblog (like Billmon, a now burnt-out Supernova of the internets) put it several months ago, Obama is “change you can suspend your disbelief in.”
Last month I thought I’d go to Vienna, for the first time in four decades, with missus charley, m.d. this time, instead of the parental units. Although it didn’t happen, because of circumstances beyond my control, in preparation I read and viewed travel and historical material, with a focus on the 20th century. In case anyone missed it in comment #1 supra, I was referring to a certain German-speaking political leader of Austrian origin. Our host is German, and the Germans differ from the Austrians and Japanese because they have intentionally learned from World War II, rather than repressing it. [See an excellent documentary video, Watermarks, about the Viennese Jewish swim team of the 1930s and their reunion in the 21st century.] I hope to live long enough to see the U.S. of A. have a change of heart about its own war crimes – but the disinformation machinery and the collective trance seem far too strong for that right now.
Reading Malooga‘s moving account of the development of his political awareness reminded me that I’d like to have a collection of Billmon’s old posts and the comments on them. Can someone point me in the right direction?
Finally, biklett‘s quote from a song Sinatra sang reminded me of one of my favorites from Randy Newman:

They say money won’t buy you love in this world
But it will get you half a pound of cocaine and two 15 year old girls
And an air-conditioned limousine on a hot September night
And that may not be love – but it’s alright

May the Creative Forces of the Universe stand beside us, and guide us, through the Night with the Light from Above [speaking metaphorically] – and have mercy on our souls, if any.

Posted by: mistah charley, ph.d. | Jan 15 2009 15:30 utc | 49

pedri
i have to differ with you. i have always, always found your posts thoughtfull even when i disagreed strongly as in your last post about the left in latin america. i write like the mad dog i am with typing errors to boot
i supose in a way i am turning in on myself on the style versus voice question but your writing has a color that added greatly
i too am as perplexed as the philosopher, parmenides & don’t feel guilty for that but unlike you pedro i feel the dialogues/commentaries here aid me through the day to day practice feeling sometimes i could drown in detail. i’ve been doing what i’ve been doing in france for nearly 20 years about& i am less certain than at the beginning. on a bad day i think i am just a band aid – on a good day – i think i open up the route for my communites to communicate & possibly love. who knows
wanted you to know that i miss your interventions, really, vraiement & send my fraternal greetings as this old communist is wont to do

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 15 2009 16:41 utc | 50

pedro
i have to differ with you. i have always, always found your posts thoughtfull even when i disagreed strongly as in your last post about the left in latin america. i write like the mad dog i am with typing errors to boot
i supose in a way i am turning in on myself on the style versus voice question but your writing has a color that added greatly
i too am as perplexed as the philosopher, parmenides & don’t feel guilty for that but unlike you pedro i feel the dialogues/commentaries here aid me through the day to day practice feeling sometimes i could drown in detail. i’ve been doing what i’ve been doing in france for nearly 20 years about& i am less certain than at the beginning. on a bad day i think i am just a band aid – on a good day – i think i open up the route for my communites to communicate & possibly love. who knows
wanted you to know that i miss your interventions, really, vraiement & send my fraternal greetings as this old communist is wont to do

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 15 2009 16:44 utc | 51

First another big thank you to all the denizens of MOA- I think I’d have went crazy if it wasn’t for stumbling upon this site and finally finding people who want to engage in dialog and not just throw insults at each other.
This space reminds of talking to the rest of the newsroom staff after deadline while working at my first newspaper job. This was right after graduating from high school when I was still an impressionable seventeen-year-old. The thoughtful writing and the individuality of each poster is so refreshing to find in these days of McNews and I’ll admit I enjoy reading even the darkest post to contrast/compare with my own feelings.
I can’t comment on Billmon, I haven’t read much of his work, certainly didn’t have the pleasure of finding his old blog that everyone raves about or I probably would have been here sooner. Naw, back then I was too busy chasing girls and bad habits to have had the focus for this level of debate.
I’m an opinionated person. I’ve read a lot a lot of different books, some trash, some thoughtful, but all better than watching tv. For ten years I shot photos for daily newspapers and during those years I realized power and money run the show… Man’s laws and god’s commandments are nothing more than words the elite pay lip-service to because it looks good. When you’ve experienced thuggery at the hands of police officers, school officials and other minor players; and have witnessed the Teflon ease they deflect criticisms, it makes you bitter and also want to question if everything learned is nothing but shadows.
I watched my parents fight the system when I was growing-up. I took great interest in my high school government class, even joining the young republicans and wearing a tie and collar-pin to my public high school like some wanabe Alex Keton. How else does the kid of hippy parents rebel? A funny side-note to those young republican days is that the president of the chapter, who was the Big Man on campus, is now living in California’s Bay Area, dresses like a nun and is supporting a bunch of anarchist by cooking acid in his basement. Sounds like fiction, but you know how truth can be. And if he could change for the better, by god anyone can change.
I’d be willing to bet that most of the kids from that chapter are fighting the system now, at least the ones that didn’t outright join-up. At least I hope this is true.
Putting my words into an orbit in cyberspace is a way for me (and probably many of you also) to pull strands of cancer out of the brain. Once out it can be sniffed, touched, examined and dissected, but most importantly, it’s no longer a festering tumor, polluting my psyche. Doing so publicly is a form of group therapy, and here at MOA there are many other “doctors” that can examine the tumor and decide the proper treatment.
I’d ignored the cancer of 9/11 on the day of the event, and for a whole year afterwards. It’s true there was no way to miss all the coverage, but I did a good job of it. Even ignoring it as religiously as I did, a whiff of it would occasionally foul the air near me and it always reeked of something rotten. Then I started surfing the internet, and well I’m sure you can figure out what happened between that moment and now.
It is hard to find a group of people willing to discuss politics who don’t respond to every post with knee-jerk retorts and the tired cliches of party rhetoric debating their every point. The whole “us vs them” political meme most people argue from does nothing to further debate. Someone who is obviously writing from the small platform of their group’s belief doesn’t have as much room to maneuver as a person flying upon the winds of every belief. This is why I hate, hate, hate, groups (but mostly hate-groups :)) because the minute you say you’re with one person, you’ve started being against someone else.
Any fool can have an opinion–I’ve proved this again and again. But finding people who will support their opinion with fact and figures is a rare commodity. And rarer still are people who can admit they’re wrong when presented with better facts and better arguments.
Here I’ve found all three, but mostly the latter two. And the MOA writers aren’t regurgitating the same old tired american world view, but have focused on a much broader expanse of the political horizon in their discussions. This is my drug, this is what had kept me coming back to read more and more and more…
b-you’re a good dealer, the best I’ve found in the neighborhood, so as long as you keep posting dime-bags, I’ll keep showing up for my fix.

Posted by: David | Jan 15 2009 16:48 utc | 52

b real @ 42 —
I thought you were talking about post #7. As to #8, I wasn’t even remotely angry, so I don’t see why anyone saw me “attacking” anything. If you want to read #8 as angry and hostile, that’s your prerogative — but it’s not how I was feeling or thinking, and it’s not what my post was offering.
You’re free to disagree of course, and free to paint my posts with whatever bias and coloration you desire.

Posted by: micah pyre | Jan 15 2009 16:58 utc | 53

@mistah charley:
Somehow this got posted on the wrong thread, by myself I suppose(|-0)
There is a list of links at Billmon’s wikipedia entry. I thought b had a collection somewhere, too.
viz. Tibet: I’m sure you have read Parenti’s Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth and Shamir’s Buddha Nativity.
All in all, judging by the historical record, the Dalai Lama could not have done a worse job of preserving the geographic integrity and religious continuity of his people. He has done on admirable job of scattering them around the globe in positions of influence. In truth, he is following the post-Holocaust Jewish model, and we can see where that type of thinking leads.

Posted by: Malooga | Jan 16 2009 0:32 utc | 54