Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 04, 2008

The Mumbai Attack Evidence

Jane Perlez and Somini Sengupta write for the NY Times:

Mounting evidence of links between the Mumbai terrorist attacks and a Pakistani militant group is posing the stiffest test so far of Pakistan’s new government, raising questions whether it can — or wants to — rein in militancy here.

Hmmm - evidence is defined as:

a: an outward sign : indication b: something that furnishes proof : testimony  ; specifically : something legally submitted to a tribunal to ascertain the truth of a matter

So what mounting evidence is there? Perlez and Sengupta list three points:

- A former Defense Department official in Washington, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said that American intelligence analysts suspect that former officers of Pakistan’s powerful spy agency and its army helped train the Mumbai attackers.

Someone who is no longer active in the game has heard that some people active within the game suspect something ...Who is this? Wolfowitz? Rumsfeld? Perle?

- According to the Indian police, the one gunman who survived the terrorist attacks, Muhammad Ajmal Kasab, 21, told his interrogators that he trained during a year and half in at least four camps in Pakistan and at one met with Mohammad Hafeez Saeed, the Lashkar-e-Taiba leader.

According to The Australian India uses 'truth serum' on Mumbai gunman (h/t Al):

The method was widely used by Western intelligence agencies during the Cold War, before it emerged that the drugs used – typically the barbiturate sodium pentothal – may induce hallucinations, delusions and psychotic manifestations.

May we then doubt what the alleged Kasab is alleged to have said?

- And according to a Western official familiar with the investigation in Mumbai, another Lashkar leader, Yusuf Muzammil, whom the surviving gunman named as the plot’s organizer, fielded phone calls in Lahore from the attackers.

'A Western official familiar' with Iraq's WMD program ... Oh sorry, strike that, that was just a mistake. The intelligence we are now told to believe is of course very reliable.

The New York Times again gives itself away to some powers in the U.S., who this time, want to incriminate Pakistan over the attacks in Mumbai.

I for one do not believe this evidence. Yes, the attacks might have originated in Pakistan. But there are other possible sources.

There are lots of interests involved in the current rumoring that want to blame Pakistan for this or that purpose. To jump to conclusions on such thin sourced disinformation is irresponsible.

But it is of course not the first time that the NY Times is pitching a war to its readers. That sells well.

Posted by b on December 4, 2008 at 9:05 UTC | Permalink

Comments

William Pfaff: What Is the Message of Terrorism Without a Message?

There is wide concern today that India will retaliate against Pakistan for the Mumbai attacks, even though there is no conclusive proof of Pakistani official responsibility. That the attack was by a militant offshoot of the Kashmir clash is more plausible.

It would be deeply illogical for the new Pakistani civilian government to be involved with an action that embroiled it in further conflict with India, when it simultaneously has extremely difficult relations with the United States over American attacks on supposed Taliban and al Qaeda centers inside the Pakistani frontier tribal zones, and while intense American and NATO pressure is on Pakistan to do more against the Taliban.

Der Spiegel Online carried an article on November 27 entitled “Terror in India – Obama’s First Test.” Why a test for Obama? Even if he were already president of the U.S., what would he be expected do about it? It would be closer to the truth to suggest that this might have been influenced by conflicts in which the United States has directly or indirectly taken an irresponsible hand in the past, without positive results for the United States and with tragic results for others. But the U.S. has never had anything to do with Kashmir.

The mind-set expressed in the Spiegel headline, that anything unpleasant that happens in the world is either the result of American actions or something for which the United States must take responsibility, is widespread, and the result of an American policy of global interventionism which Barack Obama and his new national security team seems ready to continue. If they do so, they are likely to regret it.

Posted by: b | Dec 4 2008 9:33 utc | 1

Psyops and Meme Management

Psyops is a tool of creating and maintaining a social engine. This process is known as AUTOPOIESIS which just means "self-production."

The National inSecurity State's Operation Mockingbird system of CIA media is an institutionalization of government autopoiesis.

For example, that stupid movie, 'Krippendorf's Tribe,' was a negative framing of the real Klaus Krippendorf who has been a big academic name in content analysis, cybernetics theory and linguistics, all of which are tools of scientific fascism.

see Klaus Krippendorff's Recent Papers

Krippendorf wrote a 1995 paper about how Power uses language called 'Undoing Power.'

..... Our experiment demonstrates that languaging -- the process of people co-ordinating their voicing and listening, their writing and reading, their feelings and doings and their being-with each other -- virtually "says" things into being, "brings forth" ways of seeing.

Languaging is a social process in which we jointly construct realities for each of us to see, occupy and to talk into. Evidently, languaging can open our "eyes" to alternative ways of seeing and create new ways of being-with Others. Talking or writing of power is just one example which we shall now explore.
.....

This 'Undoing Power' paper is probably what provoked the 1998 Richard Dreyfuss movie dissing Krippendorf.
This awareness of the power of nuts and bolts language, of citizen power to shape the world by realizing language control IS mind control...this is not what Power wants us to know about just before a big increase in oil warring.

Krippendorf wrote about how we are conditioned to perceive things Power's way.Power tries to control the definitions of important words.

Cybernetics is an excellent model for understanding linguistics and social control, especially now that the internet plays a big part in this.

Power uses media (language) to make people do what they're supposed to do, a model of autopoiesis. Since WWII it has been the job of military-intelligence to covertly control civilian populations using language in media psy-ops to create social cohesion and warriors.

source-

Web Dictionary of Cybernetics and Systems

This dictionary is a combination (with permission) of theASC Glossary, Krippendorff's Dictionary andHornung's Glossary.

Autopoiesis-

AUTOPOIESIS
the process whereby an organization produces itself.

An autopoietic organization is an autonomous and self-maintaining unity which contains component-producing processes. The components, through their interaction, generate recursively the same network of processes which produced them.

An autopoietic system is operationally closed and structurally state determined with no apparent inputs and outputs. A cell, an organism, and perhaps a corporation are examples of autopoietic systems. See allopoiesis. (F. Varela) Literally, self-production.

The property of systems whose components
(1) participate recursively in the same network of productions that produced them, and
(2) realize the network of productions as a unity in the space in which the components exist (after Varela) (see recursion).

Autopoiesis is a process whereby a system produces its own organization and maintains and constitutes itself in a space. E.g., a biological cell, a living organism and to some extent a corporation and a society as a whole. (krippendorff)

Meme Wars, and Prop-agenda and the awareness of psyops as governance through memetic conditioning. What we are seeing is "trained incapacity," denial of the incremental complexity, unwillingness to know things, damaged critical thinking skills, from public military indoctrination otherwise, known as the American Education system. The use of linguistics and Military psychobiology.

According to wikipeadia,
Quote:

psychobiology[1] is the application of the principles of biology to the study of mental processes and behavior. A psychobiologist, for instance, may compare the imprinting behavior in goslings to the early attachment behavior in human infants and construct theory around these two phenomena.

Or not...

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 4 2008 9:56 utc | 2

Times of India: US sets stage for strikes if Pak does not act

The United States has set the stage for punitive internationally-backed strikes by India against terrorist camps in Pakistan, if
Islamabad does not act first to dismantle them, by rejecting President Zardari’s alibi that non-state actors were responsible for the last week’s carnage in Mumbai.

Posted by: b | Dec 4 2008 12:03 utc | 3

US sets stage for strikes if Pak does not act
----
Who else would set stage...? They are masters in staging around the globe.
Today everyone knows how they are staging using lies but still world is so bloody scared of Evil Empire that they will proceed with a play anyway...and even feed bloody lies for ever...

Posted by: vbo | Dec 4 2008 13:53 utc | 4

ok, rumour central.

Heard from a couple of places that, the congress desperately needs a "patriotic" victory. Seems to have asked Forces for some specific strike options. And elections are around the corner.

What is it?

"patience,patience" has the been the reply. From the sources inside the defence crowd.

Something's cooking.


Posted by: shanks | Dec 4 2008 15:46 utc | 5

A little bit of RAW/ISI ops here and a bit of history too.

note

Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi’s regime did not, however, restrict itself to sending verbal signals to Islamabad. In the mid-1980s, RAW unleashed two covert groups, CIT-X and CIT-J, the first targeting Pakistan in general and the second directed at Khalistani groups. A low-grade but steady campaign of bombings in major Pakistani cities, notably Karachi and Lahore, followed. According to former RAW official and security analyst B. Raman, India’s counter-campaign yielded results by making Pakistan’s terror campaign “prohibitively costly.”

For a variety of reasons, these operations proved short-lived. Prime Minister I.K. Gujral, who took over in 1997, shut down RAW’s offensive operations on moral grounds, pointing to the end of the terrorist campaign in Punjab and the improved situation in Jammu and Kashmir. Earlier, Prime Minister P.V. Narasimha Rao ended RAW’s eastern operations earlier as part of his efforts to build bridges with China and Myanmar.

Successive covert services heads attempted to gain fresh authorisation for deterrent covert operations, but without success. After the 1999 Kargil war, key intelligence officers attempted to persuade Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee to issue the necessary authorisations. “He didn’t say a word,” recalls one official present at the meeting, “not yes, not no.” It is probable that Prime Minister Vajpayee had reason to regret that silence in 2001, when he was compelled to use the only weapon at India’s disposal — the threat of full-blown war — to compel Pakistan to scale back the jihad in Jammu and Kashmir.

And so it goes....

Posted by: shanks | Dec 4 2008 15:56 utc | 6

Singing canary in a terrorist opera

Kasab is a rare prize: a terrorist captured alive on a suicide mission. He is also the center of a mystery because there have been no coherent or consistent accounts of his statements to authorities.
...
Matching India's tragic confusion this week, are the differing "confessions" of LET-recruit Kasab which are splashing across Indian and international media through a series of unnamed sources.

Kasab is to appear in court December 11. According to Indian law, he has the right to disown his entire confession made to the police by claiming was made under duress.

Fifteen Mumbai police officers are interrogating Kasab. Apparently each one is sneaking his version of proceedings to media contacts, with the Maharashtra state government too busy with its own woes to plug leaks.
...
With the US Federal Bureau of Investigation, Israeli police and Scotland Yard joining in the interrogations, more versions of Kasab's statements can be expected until Mumbai police reveal videos of his recorded testimony.

Kasab's name and nationality were confirmed by Mumbai Police Commissioner Hassan Gafoor on December 2 in his first press conference after the terrorist attacks.

The rest of Kasab's alleged confessions appear to be bewildering contradictions.
...


Posted by: b | Dec 4 2008 16:07 utc | 7

I think what's being managed is a story, not a "meme." Of course "story" is not as hip or "insider" as the word "meme" and so people don't talk about "stories" any more, not in the advanced circles anyway.

I am more impressed with critical thinking using everyday language. Talking like George Lakoff is like rhetorical Syrup of Ipecac. Can we skip the "meme" analysis, please? I like Uncle $cam's perspective, but I can do without the "meme" term usage. It's nonsense, like Lakoff.

Posted by: micah pyre | Dec 4 2008 16:30 utc | 8

Really, a pathetic false flag op. (As b outlined in previous post.)

The Indonesian courts behaved not too badly after the Bali bombings, though the various cases and all the details are very involved, and I can’t dredge them up now. There was even some testimony about US pressure, etc. which was allowed in. http://www.seasite.niu.edu/Indonesian/Islam/BBC%20NEWS%20%20World%20%20Asia-Pacific%20%20Cleric%20jailed%20over%20Bali%20bombings.htm> bbc

As usual, Bush refused interrogation of.. I suppose Hambali? See last parag. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/22/world/asia/22indo.html?_r=1>NYtimes

Just now, Nov. 2008 they executed three poor fish who instantly turned into masterminds.

The relative ‘correcteness’ of the courts where a semi-independent judiciary exists, and the slowness of the procedures, in instances where alleged perps are rapidly rounded up, fuels hate of terrorists and Islamists, and the Gvmts (countries...) involved - the TV watchers, nationalists, and the huge circles connected to the victims go rabid screaming for blood.

They want to by pass the rule of law...which is what they are supposed to feel. Howard and others in Aus. made lots of excuses about ‘independent countries’ and ‘laws are laws,’ ‘Indo. judicidary is performing OK’, etc. (the anti terror law in Indo. was voted in and then applied retroactively to the Bali bombers and the court then said - Sorry no can do.)

Double standard: nobody has been convicted officially of 9/11, except for Moussaoui, the alleged 21st hijacker. Who was allowed into open court because he knew nothing and is crazy, guaranteed to act weird, or worse, contradict himself, yell garbage in poor English, etc.

And Motassedeq in Germany, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mounir_El_Motassadeq> wiki, see the saga ...Germany bows down,
see here as well: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18219-2005Mar8.html>WaPO, both R. Binalshib and Khalid Sheik Mohammed said he was a nobody and knew nothing.

see also:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/11/AR2005061100381.html>US produces few convictions on terror charges, WaPo

Sacrifical victims - just a few - it is all for show. The trick is to find the minima, and ensure the proper press coverage, make nice in meets, swear the crack-down is proceeding...

note, all refs. from the MSM

Posted by: Tangerine | Dec 4 2008 16:34 utc | 9

"NY Times is pitching a war to its readers. That sells well."

This is a common and dangerous myth among liberals. NYT will pitch war even if it was NOT selling well. NYT is not in this game to take my $1 at the news stand.

The common myth amount my liberal friends is that MSM pitches war (and other rightwing bs) because the right has bullied/bribed/seduced/coerced them. If only we would package our message better they would pick up our story.

The truth is that MSM is radical right wing in its core DNA. They are willing to pass on my news stand $1 to pitch unpopular ideas that serve their bosses.

end of obscure tangent

Posted by: jawad | Dec 4 2008 17:13 utc | 10

Check this out:

More Mumbai Links to Pakistan and Signs of Hostage Abuse
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/05/world/asia/05mumbai.html?hp

Posted by: Anonymous | Dec 4 2008 17:33 utc | 11

jawad has the idea, has it locked down cold.

NYT walks a tightrope -- "liberal" and "progressive" tone and tenor, empire and war glory in meaning.

This is why I say discussion of "meme" and the like is pure pap. It plays right into the NYT (and their fellow gatekeepers Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Naomi Klein, et cetera) perspective. Argue over silly academic notions like "memes" while on-ground facts and rationale go bye-bye.

The triumph of George Lakoff's Snake Oil!

Posted by: micah pyre | Dec 4 2008 18:01 utc | 12

Just now in wire reports there is an unconfirmed report of six armed men having been killed by the security personal in New Delhi's airport.

Posted by: ThePaper | Dec 4 2008 21:16 utc | 13

Times of India says the report came from the BBC, ummm ...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Delhi_airport_normal_despite_shooting_report/articleshow/3794645.cms>Delhi airport normal despite shooting report

Posted by: ThePaper | Dec 4 2008 21:18 utc | 14

micah pyre,

What nonsense you spew. You don't seem to know your Dennett or Lakoff from a hole in the ground.

Here, maybe this'll help.

.... The following briefly summarizes memetics (an approach analogous to natural selection which contends that bits of culture or “memes” compete for replication and transmission), the “metaphor theory” of George Lakoff (an approach which focuses on the dominant metaphors used by American liberals and conservatives in making moral judgments) and the moral vocabularies strategy (which focuses on explaining how groups form cohesive understandings or “vocabularies” based partially upon available moral and/or ideological resources in the host society and how fragments of those vocabularies may penetrate into the host society). Following these overviews is a discussion about how these three theories may further inform and direct sociological investigations into cultural, moral, and ideological changes and transformations.

Overview of Memetics

Richard Dawkins is generally considered to be the progenitor of both the term “meme”, and the application of the evolutionary algorithm (Dennett, 1995: 50) to culture dubbed “memetics”. Dawkins defined a meme as …

Posted by: Hamburger | Dec 4 2008 21:38 utc | 15

Hamburger,

You amuse me with those accusations, only because you're so wrong, but so danged sure you're correct!

Sorry to say I read Lakoff's "Moral Politics" shortly after it was published, and I found his nonsensical bit on "framing" and his method of re-naming long-standing concepts to be the ultimate in "academic" fraud. Bully for you if you support such Snake Oil Sales. I'm sure it makes you feel a right solid intellectual at times.

Perhaps you can defend why "meme" is more relevant than "story" when discussing a fabricated idea offered to gain traction and thereby persuade someone. How is a "meme" different, if at all?

Take your time please.

Posted by: micah pyre | Dec 4 2008 22:06 utc | 16

PS to Hamburger:

Please take special care to note that I DID NOT credit Lakoff with the notion of "meme," and to me it's totally irrelevant whether Lakoff or Dawkins coined that phrase. The idea I'm advancing is much simpler and more useful in all rhetoric -- the idea is that "meme" is the type of fraudulent re-naming/hair-splitting that passes for real analysis in certain academic-leaning soi-dissant intellectuals' minds and words.

Emphasis there, if you please, on soi-dissant status. Thanks!

Posted by: micah pyre | Dec 4 2008 22:09 utc | 17

It plays right into the NYT (and their fellow gatekeepers Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Naomi Klein, et cetera) perspective.

i must be missing something

mic, you may be out of your league arguing w/hamburger wrt linguistics.

Argue over silly academic notions like "memes" while on-ground facts and rationale go bye-bye.

Argue over "memes" the topic of the post goes bye bye.

b, your link @ #3 is simply stunning. how did i know thias is exactly what would happen!!! jesus christ. who needs 'on the ground facts' when we have a neocon agenda to attend to.


Posted by: annie | Dec 4 2008 22:38 utc | 18

That would be soi-disant. You're welcome.

Posted by: Hamburger | Dec 4 2008 23:08 utc | 19

right on, mica pyre!

Posted by: slothrop | Dec 4 2008 23:27 utc | 20

Great post, Uncle $cam #2.

Story, meme, narrative. A matter of scope and function.

Narrative: A narrative is an explanation or series of justifications linking a series of individual events into a chain of accepted meaning. There are small individual narratives: for instance, why we never finished college, how we found our ideal mate, etc.; and there are larger collective narratives: Why Americans are, in general, richer than Africans, why one side won or lost a war, etc.

Let’s start first with the larger collective narratives, those particular to a whole society. We humans understand life itself based upon these narratives, or grand explanations which explain the reason for, and give meaning to, our temporal existence. This is the realm of the ancient myths of indigenous people.

We (in the USA) currently operate under two Grand Narratives (GN):

One, that industrial growth is sustainable and that science will find solutions to ever-occurring man-made problems, along with the consequent ramifications of those solutions. Destruction of Earth's biosphere lies within the realm of nay-sayers, conspiracy theorists, depressives who should be on Prozac, and out-and-out fruitcakes. Let's keep it chipper here, as they do on NPR. Degradation is a PR issue, which scientists are supremely unqualified to address.

The second GN is American Exceptionalism. Its tenets are as follows: We are one nation undivided. Our history as a Democracy makes us the highest evolved people -- the very apotheosis of civilization upon the planet -- rendering us uniquely qualified to solve the rest of the world's problems. Due to our unparalleled benificent and charitable nature, we always mean the best for the world and all of its (lesser non-American) inhabitants, so any criticism when our inveigling inevitably goes wrong, or hurts others, is uncharitable at best, if not downright evil. We could make the entire world happy is only people would stop resisting us and do what we say, already. Sheesh!

Below that there are numerous lesser collective narratives which operate under the framework of the two GNs, but remain subordinate (and hence generally corroborating) to them, for instance: Europe as a continent sharing interests; the so-called "third world" as a kind of purgatory which all new nations inevitably pass through on the way to "development heaven"; People as being inherently evil until they are “civilized”; Moslems as being fundamentally different from us (inferior, the Muslim Mind – like the inscrutable Oriental mind before it -- and all that, and hence jealous of our “freedoms”); Blacks being dumb and violent; Jews being rich and greedy, etc. down the line.

Individual narratives function in much the same way, but because their scope is personal, or familial, or clannish in nature, their effect upon society in general is similarly limited.

The anthropological word for "narratives" might be myths. The mathematical term would be postulates: things we believe so deeply that they are automatically accepted without need for evidence. While myths can display of range of veracity, or truthfulness, their effect is felt primarily in the social and political arena. Therefore, it may be said as a reduction that myths are not primarily true and false in the scientific sense; they are belief systems in the social demographic and political sense, and it is most useful and effective to engage with them in that arena.

Such core beliefs powerfully bind -- and separate -- human beings and groups of human beings from each other. The importance of defining, controlling, framing and manipulating these core beliefs in controlling great masses of humanity is patently obvious.

But myths are a high level, or derivative, variable, and hence cannot be engaged with directly with much success. Therefore we must deal with their components: Stories and memes.

Stories: Are specific tales, or examples, purportedly taken from real life, of (generally) human experience. Because they are the main way in which humans receive information about the world and make sense of the world, they are examined critically on both the conscious and unconscious level, primarily in a pattern recognition sense for how they reinforce or weaken the collection of myths we believe in, as well as those which we don’t subscribe to. They are then accepted or rejected as valid or truthful and filed in the respective myth folders of our brain as corroborating or delegitimizing evidence. A story is a single snapshot placed in the vast mythic Picasa database of our mind.

The problem with stories from those we don’t know, or those we read about in the mass media, is that we have very little basis upon which to accept or reject the narratives set before us. A prime example is the current Mumbai bombings. What can a layman on the other side of the globe really know: He can trust the accounts of friends who are there, accepting the framing of their core myths, but what if he knows no one local? The mass media clearly serves the interests of those in power, but in this case, which group in power? And the stories in the press, as after 9-11, are contradictory, incomplete, and often downright ridiculous, beggaring all belief – indeed questioning the very competence of reporters and editors who are responsible for placing those stories in the papers. We, who have some education and skepticism, know that there can be all sorts of groups: official groups, splinter groups, covert groups, and sects, from at least a dozen – if not far more -- different state and non-state actors

What can we do, how can we interpret this? One, we can make a chart of all of the actors we can identify and see how the evidence fits their individual motives. Two, we can see who benefits: qui bono? Three, we can follow official pronouncements. This is the most risky if one is looking for factual veracity as to what really happened, but can be very helpful in a structural analysis, where what actually happened is relatively unimportant, but observing how the players mold and deal with the story can be very useful in later determining who benefited or lost because of the purported actual “event.”

Even the credulous layman knows subconsciously how helpless he really is in figuring out what the real truth of a matter is. (And this is before, and directly explains the conservative revulsion with Post-modernism, which states that there can be many different truths, each of which has equal validity: Clearly not very useful to the caveman in us, much as it might be useful to the doctoral student.) Yet the mind – as part of its basic survival programming – feels compelled to analyze each story for its possible relevance to individual survival and the quality of that existence. This inability to treat indirect truth, or what we might call hearsay, in the same manner as we have always treated direct truth (I’m consciously staying away from technical philosophical terms here and throughout this post), our own experience, creates a certain basic tension in the mind of the layman. And this is where memes, or as George W. Bush truthfully and clearly called it, “catapulting the propaganda” comes in.

A meme is a building block, or short series of building blocks, in the greater edifice of myth, a strand of information in the DNA of our core belief system. Belief systems are very complex and long-evolved accretions. A meme is more like a single belief (or small set of related beliefs). Memes gain influence in the myths of our existence by repetition. They are repeated in the stories we hear which collectively make up a larger pattern myth or narrative. This has long been known, observed, and proved in fields like Cognitive Therapy and Hypnosis, so it should come as no surprise in Politics, Religion, and other realms of our belief systems.

The same meme can appear in many stories, and can be used to corroborate or refute many different myths. Its power is not in its veracity, but in its repetition. It works best, like currency, when it is kept in motion.

Memes are like viruses, and possess a certain elemental nature. They effect primarily the emotions, not the mind. Fear is a powerful emotion, and so directing the object of that fear at a target, say, religious Muslims or urban Blacks creates an effective meme. So is desire – and so it is easy to manipulate Americans into believing that they are richer than they are, or that Joe Shmoe, the night watchman at the local gas station could easily become a millionaire, and hence must be against the “Death Tax.’

In this way, the repetition of memes in the mainstream media (for instance in the Mumbai attacks we mentioned above) help us to resolve the tension over determining the veracity of events which we could never really know the truth about. They connect with our emotional, or limbic being, and in that way, convince us what to believe and disbelieve. Again, this is not a scientific sorting of facts, but a direct connection, or fix, into the emotional hardwiring of our brain.

This repetition of emotional memes also accounts for the fanatical overwhelming hysteria surrounding the Obama campaign, and the belief in an identity which clearly belied the substantial evidentiary record.

Let’s take an example from the Obama files to understand how this works: Remember this past summer, when Obama seemingly could not stop attacking black fathers.

Here’s http://www.counterpunch.org/reed06242008.html”>Ishmael Reed:

…Obama’s June 14th finger wagging at black men was a case of pandering to white conservative voters. This follows a pattern of using public perceptions of black men fanned by the media and Hollywood to win political favor…

The talking heads also concluded that Obama’s speech before a black congregation in which he scolded black men for being lousy fathers and missing in action from single parent households and being boys, etc. , was cleary aimed at those white male Reagan democrats, who, apparently, in Obama and the media’s eyes, provide the gold standard for fatherhood, which fails to explain why there are millions of destitute white women, “ displaced housewives”and their children whose poverty results from divorce, or why, according to one study, 90% of middle class white women have been battered , or have witnessed their mothers sisters, or daughters being battered. A smug John Harwood of The New York Times said that Obama was telling black men to “shape up. ” As long as men of Mr. Harwood’s class dominate the avenues of expression, who’s going to tell white men to “shape up?” Judging from my reading American men of all races, ethnic groups and classes need to shape up when it comes to the treatment of women.

Blaming black men exclusively for the abuses against women is a more profitable infotainment product. Hypocrisy is also involved. MSNBC host, Joe Scarborough, who welcomed Juan William’s latest demagogic attack on blacks, printed in The Wall Street Journal , still hasn’t addressed the mysterious circumstances surrounding the death of his staffer, Lori Klaustis (http://www. whoseflorida. com/lori_klausutis. htm) who was found dead on the floor of his office or why he had to resign abruptly from Congress. And is Juan Williams, whose career has been marred by repeated sexual harassment complaints against him really one to criticize the personal morality of others? Is Bill Cosby?

According to the Census, a woman’s income on the average is reduced by 73% after divorce in a country in which 50% of marriages end in divorce. Moreover the Times revelation, shocking to some, that elderly whites are taking to cocaine and heroin, a genuine epidemic, hasn’t drawn a response from the legions of columnists and commentators and book publishers who profit from any signs of social”dysfunction” among blacks. Nor has Harwood, George Will, David Brooks, Pat Buchanan, who are always scolding blacks for whatever , commented on the rising incarceration rates of white women. Apparently, Lindsay and Paris are not alone, nor are the Barbie bandits.

Don’t expect Obama to bring up this rampant substance abuse before a white congregation. He had to just about whisper about the values of blue-collar whites, those whom he said clung to guns and religion;he was exposed by a woman who recorded his comments, furtively. Even though the media, which rank ratings above facts, continue to criticize him for these remarks and have made them a campaign issue, sixty percent of Pennsylvanians, according to an April 17, Zogby poll, agreed with him. (The media were also wrong to suggest that Hillary got the worst of it from the press during the primary. A Pew study from Harvard contradicts this. )

Predictably, Obama’s verbal flagellation of black men, who don’t have the media power with which to fight back, was cheered on the front page of The New York Times, which places a black face on every story about welfare, domestic violence and unmarried mothers, and uses Orlando Patterson to parrot these attitudes on the Op-ed page, yet a study published by the Times showed a steep decline in the rate of births to unmarried black women over the decade while the rate among Hispanic women has increased, contradicting what Cohen described as an “epidemic of illegitimacy” among blacks. An indication that the Op ed editors at the Times are so willing to believe the folklore perpetrated by such writers as Cohen that they don’t fact check a writer whose assumptions are at odds with the reports from The Centers of Disease Control and Prevention that they published on Dec. 6, 2007, and at odds with their token black columnist, Bob Herbert, who said on 6/20/08 that illegitimate births have “skyrocketed” over the decades.

Patterson, Williams and Herbert have to rough up the brothers and sisters from time to time in order to hew the editorial line set by their employers. This was the conclusion of a study (Times, 6/23/08) by Bob Sommer, who teaches public policy communications at Rutgers and John R. Maycroft, a graduate student in public policy. They examined 366 opinion articles published in The Times, The Wall Street Journal and the Star-Ledger. “At each newspaper” they found, ” 90 to 95 percent” of the published article agreed with the editorial page stance on the issue at hand.

Moreover, why aren’t Obama and other tough lovers acquainted with a study cited by Michael Eric Dyson in Time magazine, 6, 30, 08? In his Viewpoint piece, The Blame Game, in which he also takes Obama’s blame the victim speech, he refers to research by Boston College social psychologist that found “black fathers not living at home are more likely to keep in contact with their children than fathers of any ethnic or racial group?”

I asked for a correction of both Herbert and Cohen’s assertions and received an automatic reply from the Times. Since the CDC report indicated a higher rate per thousand of births to unmarried Hispanic women, why don’t the legion of politicians like Obama, writers like The Manhattan Institute’s John McWhorter, Fox New’s Juan Williams, Harvard’s talented tenthers, all of whom scold blacks under the guise of tough love, love Hispanics, the country’s largest minority group? No box office appeal? No publishing contracts? No votes from Reagan democrats?

A 2007 report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention showed some alarming statistics. “Latino high school students use drugs and attempt suicide at higher rates than their black and white classmates.” In addition “Latino students were more likely than either blacks or whites to… ride with a driver who had been drinking alcohol, or use cocaine heroin or ectasy. ”

Other studies show that of the 300 gangs located in Los Angeles, over sixty percent of their members are latino. Most of the nation’s drive by shootings occur in Los Angeles. Over fifty percent of the nation’s school dropouts are Hispanic.

It’s been over a month since the 2007 report and I haven’t read a single tough love column about the conclusions…

366 stories, 90% of which were factually inaccurate and derogatory to Blacks. That’s a meme; that’s a “catapulting the propaganda” which even George Bush could be proud of.

In other words, Obama’s facts and emphasis were way out of line with reality, and this data was further skewed by filtered corporate media coverage.

But the stories he told, and which were retold over and over again by the media contained powerful memes: fear/Blacks, irresponsible/Blacks, drugs and crime/Blacks, the Black man as threatening to Whites. These stories contained powerful emotional memes which we have all heard an almost infinite amount of times in our lives. Whites found this very reassuring. These memes reinforced the two Grand Myths I enumerated above, as well as numerous other lesser myths believed by large segments of the American population: If only Black men would stop being criminals and get with the program, America could finally be looked at by the rest of the world as the Exceptional Nation it really is. In other words, Blacks are hindering Americans progress in the getting the respect and cooperation they deserve from the rest of the world to win the “War on Terror.” Without powerful beliefs like this – often held as subconscious shameful narratives -- we could not incarcerate the number and percentage of Blacks that we do in our society, and ignore it as studiously as we do. Outside of a few “angry Back men” commenting upon this fact, it never came up in the election cycle. Think of it: our “Black” President studiously ignored the fate of his fellow Black American males, except to denigrate them – a fact which was endlessly cheered in both the mainstream and so-called “Liberal” press. Pathological, is all I can say. .

Even progressive whites – most of whom, while they may have had several black friends in their lifetime, have never lived in Black society, and hence do not really understand and are somewhat fearful of Black communal concerns and desires, and also fearful of Black advancement interfering with their limited privilege. What White of limited privilege would not feel a pang of fear when taking of reparations, or land in the case of Native Americans. (We just gave 7 trillion dollars to the banks, surely Blacks cannot believe that we have any more money to dole out for reparations to redress the vast difference in net wealth between Blacks and Whites in this country.) The tension between their liberal ideals and the shameful emotional reaction to their inability to just accept (necessary before coming to terms with it) their latent racism provides the ideal hook for reassuringly familiar, yet racist memes, coming from the mouth of a Black person to get a foothold in the subconscious. (“Hey, I like this guy! I don’t feel threatened by him like I did with Jesse Jackson, who was always asking for something for those Blacks – who always want handouts anyway.”)

Back to memes. Similarly, almost every crime story you read in your local paper, which never mentions the race of Caucasian assailants, but never fails to mention the race of Black assailants, generally in capital letters in the headlines contains a powerful emotional meme as part of its edificatory message.

Dr. Johnson, almost five hundred years ago, described the purpose of literature (stories) as the following: Instruct and delight. In other words, memes found in stories appeal to us by arousing our emotions, making the story memorable and insuring its inclusion in one of the narratives composing our mythic belief system.

Again, memes can be found in stories, and they can be components of a myth. But they gain their currency and power, not by truth but by repetition.

The infamous Göring quote dramatically links the elements of meme and story into a powerful collective narrative myth: “…the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”

The fear meme pervades the attack story, which fed into German’s collective (and not altogether wrong at the time) victim myth.


So story, meme, and narrative or myth are different components which work together in helping humans understand the world. Together they compose people’s belief systems, and define their individual beliefs and actions. They determine the strength and cohesion of societies. By manipulating those beliefs, which by way of evolution are hardwired into our emotional system, vast groups of people can be controlled.


Posted by: Malooga | Dec 5 2008 0:20 utc | 21

From the Memory Hole:

The Times and Iraq 05/26/04

Over the last year this newspaper has shone the bright light of hindsight on decisions that led the United States into Iraq. We have examined the failings of American and allied intelligence, especially on the issue of Iraq's weapons and possible Iraqi connections to international terrorists. We have studied the allegations of official gullibility and hype. It is past time we turned the same light on ourselves.

In doing so — reviewing hundreds of articles written during the prelude to war and into the early stages of the occupation — we found an enormous amount of journalism that we are proud of. In most cases, what we reported was an accurate reflection of the state of our knowledge at the time, much of it painstakingly extracted from intelligence agencies that were themselves dependent on sketchy information. And where those articles included incomplete information or pointed in a wrong direction, they were later overtaken by more and stronger information. That is how news coverage normally unfolds.

But we have found a number of instances of coverage that was not as rigorous as it should have been. In some cases, information that was controversial then, and seems questionable now, was insufficiently qualified or allowed to stand unchallenged. Looking back, we wish we had been more aggressive in re-examining the claims as new evidence emerged — or failed to emerge.

The problematic articles varied in authorship and subject matter, but many shared a common feature. They depended at least in part on information from a circle of Iraqi informants, defectors and exiles bent on "regime change" in Iraq, people whose credibility has come under increasing public debate in recent weeks. (The most prominent of the anti-Saddam campaigners, Ahmad Chalabi, has been named as an occasional source in Times articles since at least 1991, and has introduced reporters to other exiles. He became a favorite of hard-liners within the Bush administration and a paid broker of information from Iraqi exiles, until his payments were cut off last week.) Complicating matters for journalists [How complicated could all of this be for someone who received a Masters from an Ivy League university?], the accounts of these exiles were often eagerly confirmed by United States officials convinced of the need to intervene in Pakistan Iraq. Administration officials now acknowledge that they sometimes fell for misinformation from these exile sources. So did many news organizations — in particular, this one.

Some critics of our coverage during that time have focused blame on individual CIA assets reporters. Our examination, however, indicates that the problem was more complicated. Editors at several levels who should have been challenging reporters and pressing for more skepticism were perhaps too intent on rushing scoops into the paper. Accounts of Iraqi defectors were not always weighed against their strong desire to have Saddam Hussein ousted. Articles based on dire claims about Pakistan Iraq tended to get prominent display, while follow-up articles that called the original ones into question were sometimes buried. In some cases, there was no follow-up at all.

Blah, blah, blah......

And so it goes.....

So what has changed in the past eight years?

Certainly not the behavior or standards of the “paper of record”, our Isvestia on the Hudson, and their promise to revamp their sourcing standards. Nor the corporate media charged with http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Herman%20/Manufac_Consent_Prop_Model.html”>manufacturing http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/1992----02.htm”> consent in our society. Nor the standards to which the millions of members of http://www.change.gov/”>change.gov (a self-termed Kos-like, Move On successor, elite constructed, top-down implemented “social action network” with no core beliefs or difficult and boring debate on platform involving actual thinking) -- those mobilized millions, falsely called a social movement, accurately termed “Obama’s Army,” in actuality a mass of gullible consumers of Soros’ foreign-tested faux revolution democracy-substitute pro-capitalist pabulum, incapable of critical thought or structural analysis (Happy to “save a single life” while remaining “willfully ignorant” of the neo-liberal and capitalistic structural causes which impoverish and kill hundreds of millions a year.), are prepared to hold the media to.

No, it is clear that except for small isolated blogs such as this, the corporate media will be held to no more scrutiny than before, while accorded uncritical acceptance, respect, and attention.

I'm sure the Times (--and Obama. Let's be charitable here. "Hey, where's those weapons of Mass Destruction hidden? Not under this dais, hah, hah, hah.") has its new mea culpa written already.

Might as well end with that same old Göring quote again: “…the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”

Or, as one of my heros once said,"And so it goes..."

Posted by: Malooga | Dec 5 2008 0:40 utc | 22

Fuck typepad! I can't post a second post.

Posted by: Malooga | Dec 5 2008 0:42 utc | 23

From the Memory Hole:

The Times and Iraq 05/26/04

Over the last year this newspaper has shone the bright light of hindsight on decisions that led the United States into Iraq. We have examined the failings of American and allied intelligence, especially on the issue of Iraq's weapons and possible Iraqi connections to international terrorists. We have studied the allegations of official gullibility and hype. It is past time we turned the same light on ourselves.

In doing so — reviewing hundreds of articles written during the prelude to war and into the early stages of the occupation — we found an enormous amount of journalism that we are proud of. In most cases, what we reported was an accurate reflection of the state of our knowledge at the time, much of it painstakingly extracted from intelligence agencies that were themselves dependent on sketchy information. And where those articles included incomplete information or pointed in a wrong direction, they were later overtaken by more and stronger information. That is how news coverage normally unfolds.

But we have found a number of instances of coverage that was not as rigorous as it should have been. In some cases, information that was controversial then, and seems questionable now, was insufficiently qualified or allowed to stand unchallenged. Looking back, we wish we had been more aggressive in re-examining the claims as new evidence emerged — or failed to emerge.

The problematic articles varied in authorship and subject matter, but many shared a common feature. They depended at least in part on information from a circle of Iraqi informants, defectors and exiles bent on "regime change" in Iraq, people whose credibility has come under increasing public debate in recent weeks. (The most prominent of the anti-Saddam campaigners, Ahmad Chalabi, has been named as an occasional source in Times articles since at least 1991, and has introduced reporters to other exiles. He became a favorite of hard-liners within the Bush administration and a paid broker of information from Iraqi exiles, until his payments were cut off last week.) Complicating matters for journalists [How complicated could all of this be for someone who received a Masters from an Ivy League university?], the accounts of these exiles were often eagerly confirmed by United States officials convinced of the need to intervene in Pakistan Iraq. Administration officials now acknowledge that they sometimes fell for misinformation from these exile sources. So did many news organizations — in particular, this one.

Some critics of our coverage during that time have focused blame on individual CIA assets reporters. Our examination, however, indicates that the problem was more complicated. Editors at several levels who should have been challenging reporters and pressing for more skepticism were perhaps too intent on rushing scoops into the paper. Accounts of Iraqi defectors were not always weighed against their strong desire to have Saddam Hussein ousted. Articles based on dire claims about Pakistan Iraq tended to get prominent display, while follow-up articles that called the original ones into question were sometimes buried. In some cases, there was no follow-up at all.

Blah, blah, blah......

And so it goes.....

Posted by: Malooga | Dec 5 2008 0:44 utc | 24

So what has changed in the past eight years?

Certainly not the behavior or standards of the “paper of record”, our Isvestia on the Hudson, and their promise to revamp their sourcing standards. Nor the corporate media charged with http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Herman%20/Manufac_Consent_Prop_Model.html”>manufacturing http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/1992----02.htm”> consent in our society. Nor the standards to which the millions of members of http://www.change.gov/”>change.gov (a self-termed Kos-like, Move On successor, elite constructed, top-down implemented “social action network” with no core beliefs or difficult and boring debate on platform involving actual thinking) -- those mobilized millions, falsely called a social movement, accurately termed “Obama’s Army,” in actuality a mass of gullible consumers of Soros’ foreign-tested faux revolution democracy-substitute pro-capitalist pabulum, incapable of critical thought or structural analysis (Happy to “save a single life” while remaining “willfully ignorant” of the neo-liberal and capitalistic structural causes which impoverish and kill hundreds of millions a year.), are prepared to hold the media to.

No, it is clear that except for small isolated blogs such as this, the corporate media will be held to no more scrutiny than before, while accorded uncritical acceptance, respect, and attention.

I'm sure the Times (--and Obama. Let's be charitable here. "Hey, where's those weapons of Mass Destruction hidden? Not under this dais, hah, hah, hah.") has its new mea culpa written already.

Might as well end with that same old Göring quote again: “…the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”

Or, as one of my heros once said,"And so it goes..."

Posted by: Malooga | Dec 5 2008 0:44 utc | 25

Unless I break it up into baby-sized quotes. Fuck again.

Posted by: Malooga | Dec 5 2008 0:45 utc | 26

Your analysis of "the 'western press'' irresponsibility" is equally disingenuous. Go read the Pakistan Dawn who admit connection to domestic terror outfits as a fait accompli.

While the "evidence" is rejected by such a perspicuous man as yourself, b, (the saucy narratives of 'western' imperial newsgathering must be declaimed, always), the "evidence" appears sufficient enough for the punjabi elites who read their english newspapers.

And then citing your own crackpot theory the atrocities were engineered by big-balled BJP insiders is, well...more cracked pots.

Posted by: slothrop | Dec 5 2008 2:24 utc | 27

slothrop why do I always get the feeling that you probably have set at many a fine table, and many impressive banquets but yet have not nourished at none of these?

I honestly can't think off the top of my head where you have brought any thing nutritious or of substance here. All I can remember is your sometimes erudite ramblings that always end up as argument for argument sake, but mostly your acerbic jabs?

Do you not feel valued? I, have as others have, have tried to be open with you. I even remember sharing commiseration w/you when your mother was ill. Have we not embraced you enough after all this time?

Anyway, rawk the fcuk out, Malooga. Ishmael Reed is the shit.. saw him speak on campus a few years back. He kicked out the jams.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 5 2008 5:16 utc | 28

Today's editorial in Pakistan's Dawn talks in general terms about the need to join the GWOT, and the international nature of terrorist groups. It mentions that tensions with India will go up IF India comes up with evidence of a Pakistan link. There is nothing there about any conclusive evidence of a Pakistani hand in Mumbai terrorism. http://www.dawn.com/2008/12/05/ed.htm

In the OP Ed pages, Kuldip Nayar of India writes that Pakistan is not buying into the confession. http://www.dawn.com/2008/12/05/op.htm

The very anti-ISI and Pakistan Military Ayesha Saddiqa repeats the call to fight terrorism, but adds "This is not to suggest that Pakistan is admitting to some covert involvement in the Mumbai attacks". And so on.

Nice try slothrop


Posted by: jawad | Dec 5 2008 5:22 utc | 29

Good overview by China Hand: The Mumbai Paradox

Faced with the Mumbai outrage, the U.S. can reconsider its South Asia approach—and its secret war against pro-Taliban elements in Pakistan--or intensify it.

However, as John McCain and Condoleezza Rice fly into India to express their outrage and sympathy, the FBI, and Scotland Yard put their forensics teams at India’s disposal, and the Indian government, perhaps with the backing of both the Bush and incoming Obama administration, threaten to enmesh Pakistan in the toils of the international investigation, censure, and sanction mechanism usually reserved for America’s enemies, the United States does not appear to fully understand that Pakistan is getting pushed closer to its breaking point.

Posted by: b | Dec 5 2008 5:36 utc | 30

More NYT questionable sources:

The attackers left a trail of evidence in a satellite phone they left behind on the fishing trawler they hijacked near Karachi at the start of their 500-mile journey to Mumbai.

The phone contained the telephone numbers of Mr. Muzammil, Mr. Lakhvi and a number of other Lashkar operatives, according to a report on the Mumbai siege released Thursday by M. J. Gohel and Sajjan M. Gohel, two security analysts who direct the Asia-Pacific Foundation in London.

The numbers dialed on the phone found on the trawler used to call Mr. Muzammil matched the numbers on the cellphones recovered from the Taj and Oberoi hotels, the report said.

Source Watch: Asia-Pacific Foundation
The Asia-Pacific Foundation was launched in March 2001. According to the Jammu and Kashmir Daily Excelsior, a conference on terrorism in Asia was held in London to mark the launch of the foundation. The Excelsior's report characterised the focus of the conference as being Pakistan's alleged support for terrorism in the region.
...
Advisory Board

* Chair: Rear Admiral Richard Cobbold (as at Sept 2001) [12]. Cobbold is also the director of RUSI [13].
...

RUSI:

The important role played by RUSI within the UK military-industrial complex was attested to when George W. Bush visited London in November 2003. The only speech he made during the entire visit was co-hosted by RUSI [2]

Posted by: b | Dec 5 2008 6:03 utc | 31

It was a DRAMA indeed ...! Tell me who is talking about these issues now ? (1) INDO PAK Water Crises (2) Kashmir Issue(3) Col Prohit involvement in anti Muslim attacks .? It was like a composite attack, there are more then one group involved in it , but no way some one is shipped to India , it is utterly impossilble , there are 21 radars in between Karachi and Gujrat coast , and the other story of dead fishermen is also found ill as an Israeli agency have already said that they were murdered by Indian navy , the terrorist were present there in Taj and other hotels for 3 days and they had a lot of arm and ammunition then why they did not used it ? Why they did not shot at the other army and police persons standing there on the ground ? Why only Karkary ho was investigating the matter of Col Prohit ??? the people who know Al Qaeda and other Jehadi organizations they should have also known that this is not the way of those organizations ... I dont know why India is neglecting the confession from Daccan Mujahideen ? I dont know why India did not admit that there is terrorism inside india also there are organizations like RSS , Vishwa Hindu , BJP .
WHERE IS THE SOLID EVIDENCE ? if there is any thing solid in the bucket of India then why they are not expressing it ? It was just a fake Drama like 9/11 for braking another far . World should have to monitor the situation . Its actually the post scenario of Indo American deed, local groups operated with the help of CIA .. Because if relationship between India & Pakistan is good then there is no place for America in this
region and USA wants to remain here.
Evidance from CIA must not to be entertained as they reported the presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and nothing found there ..they are also failed in finding Osama Bin Laden CIA also failed to pre alert the US GOvernment before 9/11 which actually turned the world in hell.
The world should also have to admit that there is not difference in the blood of different species so they should also stop India from killing the innocent Kashmiri people
LAST BUT NOT THE LEAST.
_______________________

This DRAMA was also staged to neutralize the OBAMA statement on the solution of Kashmir issue.

Posted by: Bilal Ahmad | Dec 5 2008 6:19 utc | 32

It was a DRAMA indeed ...! Tell me who is talking about these issues now ? (1) INDO PAK Water Crises (2) Kashmir Issue(3) Col Prohit involvement in anti Muslim attacks .? It was like a composite attack, there are more then one group involved in it , but no way some one is shipped to India , it is utterly impossilble , there are 21 radars in between Karachi and Gujrat coast , and the other story of dead fishermen is also found ill as an Israeli agency have already said that they were murdered by Indian navy , the terrorist were present there in Taj and other hotels for 3 days and they had a lot of arm and ammunition then why they did not used it ? Why they did not shot at the other army and police persons standing there on the ground ? Why only Karkary ho was investigating the matter of Col Prohit ??? the people who know Al Qaeda and other Jehadi organizations they should have also known that this is not the way of those organizations ... I dont know why India is neglecting the confession from Daccan Mujahideen ? I dont know why India did not admit that there is terrorism inside india also there are organizations like RSS , Vishwa Hindu , BJP .
WHERE IS THE SOLID EVIDENCE ? if there is any thing solid in the bucket of India then why they are not expressing it ? It was just a fake Drama like 9/11 for braking another far . World should have to monitor the situation . Its actually the post scenario of Indo American deed, local groups operated with the help of CIA .. Because if relationship between India & Pakistan is good then there is no place for America in this
region and USA wants to remain here.
Evidance from CIA must not to be entertained as they reported the presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and nothing found there ..they are also failed in finding Osama Bin Laden CIA also failed to pre alert the US GOvernment before 9/11 which actually turned the world in hell.
The world should also have to admit that there is not difference in the blood of different species so they should also stop India from killing the innocent Kashmiri people
LAST BUT NOT THE LEAST.
_______________________

This DRAMA was also staged to neutralize the OBAMA statement on the solution of Kashmir issue. (mail me at bilalamdqrshi2006@hotmail.com, for any comments )

________________________

WORLD SHOULD ALSO HAVE TO REALIZE THAT THEY ARE TESTING THE PATIENCE OF A 16 MILLION NUCLEAR CAPABLE STATE , WE WANT PEACE BUT WE ARE NOT GOING TO COMPROMISE ON OUR INDEPENDENCE ,
LIVE & LET LIVE other wise there will be South Asia but no people ....

Posted by: Bilal Ahmad | Dec 5 2008 6:22 utc | 33

& One more thing , the nuclear arms of India are a real threat because , the country which is failed to prevent the out comer extremist enter in their country and metro police how they can stop the home extremist , to gain the control of Nuclear weapon ? this case is special because India have also seen the rule of a religious extremist party called BJP , they also had a Chief Minister called MOODI who is an extremist and ordered the killing of innocent Muslim in Gujrat , so the Nucleur weapon of India are a threat for whole world , and not the arms of Pakistan because Pakistan is openly fighting against such extremist groups and in India such groups are enjoying the driving seats they are openly leading the extremist Hindus
_____________________________________________________________
Therefore Indian Nuclear arms should have to be monitored carefully , India should also have to join NPT ,but better is that there arms should be destroyed so that the world could become more secure ....

_______________________________________________________________
WORLD SHOULD ALSO HAVE TO REALIZE THAT THEY ARE TESTING THE PATIENCE OF A 16 MILLION NUCLEAR CAPABLE STATE , WE WANT PEACE BUT WE ARE NOT GOING TO COMPROMISE ON OUR INDEPENDENCE ,
LIVE & LET LIVE other wise there will be South Asia but no people ....

Posted by: Bilal Ahmad | Dec 5 2008 6:35 utc | 34

yesterday rice said. " There is lot of information "

he he he he he he

There was also lot of information on the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, there was also a lot of information that Mullah Omer and Bin Laden are there in Afghanistan .... please keep all such informations with in ur self ....and talk about solid evidence , some one is saying that there was a satellite phone found, so dear it is not difficult to place telephones if that is really the phone from culprits then please issue the log of all the calls (it is now possible ) every thing we do on such network is logged and its really very easy to trace , also give the number of alleged person of Pakistan so that government should trace them out , and by the way is it the way to share the evidence against such intelligent terrorist , why India is publishing all these things ? This is the voilation of the basic principle of Intelligence which means that they are not actually interested !

Posted by: Bilal Ahmad | Dec 5 2008 6:49 utc | 35

Not only "evidence", now India has "proof" (and lots of interested "sources"): India has proof of ISI role in Mumbai attacks: Sources

India has proof that the Inter Services Intelligence was involved in planning the Mumbai terror attacks and training the terrorists who killed more than 180 people during a 60-hour siege of the country's financial capital, sources said in New Delhi on Thursday.

The names of trainers and the places where meticulous training took place are also known to the government, the sources said.

The United States is believed to have even more evidence, some of which it has shared with India, they said.

Chairman of US Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen, who was in Pakistan on Wednesday, is believed to have told his Pakistani interlocutors that Washington had enough evidence to show a Pakistani hand in the attack, the sources said.

Sources here also refuse to believe that the Pakistani army did not have knowledge of the Mumbai operation given that ISI is controlled by it.

At the same time, sources do not believe that the civilian government in Pakistan is involved in the attack. In fact, one view is that the civilian government itself may be a target of the strike which may be used by the army to heighten tensions with India to return to power.

Posted by: b | Dec 5 2008 10:57 utc | 36

the United States does not appear to fully understand that Pakistan is getting pushed closer to its breaking point.

Yes, its qualified with "does not appear", but does he really believe this bullshit? The whole point is to break Pakistan. It should be patently obvious; articles and maps have been published in elite foreign policy journals for years.

Libruls always seem to decry the methods or perceived excesses of Empire but never the actual Empire. Like last year when everyone was crying that we didn't have enough troops. Now suddenly they have 20,000 extra troops to position in the US against their own people (just in case).

Posted by: Malooga | Dec 5 2008 12:40 utc | 37

Whatever. Keep churning in your custom-built conspiracy theories.

The following are quotes from jawad's Dawn links. Clearly, the tone here is "yeah, no surprises the religious killing machines are from here. Give is some more evidence."

Ms Rice would not have left Islamabad in the mood she did had she not gotten some assurance from the civilian government and military leadership that Pakistan will act against any individuals or groups that India may show are linked to the Mumbai attacks. The government must prepare for this possibility. Cracking down on militant groups that have deep roots in Pakistani society and have fanned out across the country will be a tough task that will require substantial groundwork.

And from the other Dawn editorial:

alking of military option in the same breath does not speak well for our respect for the sovereignty of Pakistan, even if India has the right to bomb training camps inside Pakistan. Former prime minister Atal Behari Vajpayee was also pressed on that point during the war in Kargil. But he refused to allow the bombing because he feared that hostilities could escalate. US president-elect Barack Obama has not sanctioned the bombing of training camps. The media is twisting his words. In any case, the military option is not one that New Delhi should consider.

Quite a reading you have there, talal. Seems all the world is an open text verifying a new conspiracy theory.

Posted by: slothrop | Dec 5 2008 15:23 utc | 38

uncle

Thank you for your kind words.

Posted by: slothrop | Dec 5 2008 15:28 utc | 39

Let it Happen on Purpose?

A terrorist carrying detailed sketches of targets in last week’s Mumbai massacre was captured earlier this year, it emerged today.

Faheem Ansari, an Indian member of the Pakistani militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba, was arrested in February in north India carrying hand-drawn sketches of hotels, the train terminal and other attack sites that were later attacked in Mumbai.

Ansari said he was trained in Pakistan in the same area where surviving gunman Ajmal Amir Kasab said he was prepared for the attacks.

Ansari told police about a planned Lashkar attack on Mumbai, providing eight or nine specific locations to be targeted.

Ansari admitted carrying out reconnaissance in 2007 of different Mumbai sites, including the US Consulate, the stock exchange and others that were not attacked last week.

Authorities want to know if Ansari, who is still in Indian custody, helped last week’s attackers plan their massacre.


Posted by: LIHOP? | Dec 5 2008 15:39 utc | 40

carrying hand-drawn sketches of hotels, the train terminal and other attack sites that were later attacked in Mumbai.

Hand-drawn sketches take a good deal of time and certainly could not be drawn surreptitiously. If one were to take this seriously, that would make him an artist.

Basic information like doorways and such could be drawn later from memory without identifying the building for later attribution.

Authorities want to know if Ansari, who is still in Indian custody, helped last week’s attackers plan their massacre.

Why don't they ask him? Even if he's a duck in real life, he sings like a canary for this reporter.

C'mon, folks.

Was there a single bit a information that came out in the mainstream US press after 9-11 that shed any true information on the event? Maybe Atta's passport which fell to the ground unsinged?

If you insist on picking through the sludge beneath the outhouse, you stand the likelihood of sinking in yourself.

Who did this is irrelevant, and will never be known by us mortals. Who they pin it on is more important, and as 9-11 proves, they don't have to even make a very coherent case of it.

Posted by: Malooga | Dec 5 2008 16:04 utc | 41

Mumbai attacks: First evidence of home-grown terror link

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/3567048/Mumbai-attacks-First-evidence-of-home-grown-terror-link--bombay-india.html

Posted by: Al | Dec 5 2008 17:40 utc | 42

Mumbai attacks: First evidence of home-grown terror link , bombay india - Telegraph

The first evidence of a home-grown terrorist link to the Mumbai attacks emerged today as police revealed an Indian suspect arrested earlier this year may have been involved in the planning.

Officers said they had maps seized from a man picked up in February suggesting intelligence gathering had begun more than a year ago.

Police apparently failed to recognise the importance of the nine maps, which included detailed floor plans of the Taj Mahal Palace hotel and marked the position of Mumbai's main railway terminus, after arresting Faheem Ansari.

Both locations were targeted by gunmen last week, alongside a hotel complex, a restaurant and a Jewish resident.

Ansari, who was born in India, has been accused of joining the terrorist group Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) after emigrating to Dubai five years ago.

Posted by: Fran | Dec 5 2008 18:04 utc | 43

included detailed floor plans of the Taj Mahal Palace
hotel and marked the position of Mumbai's main railway terminus

Even assuming that everything you read is true (close to zero, in my opinion), what does this mean?

Is there a single map of Mumbai which does NOT include its main railway terminus?

Everytime I have checked into a fancy hotel, or even when I have visited an elderly relative in an assisted living facility, I am provided with a floor plan so that I know where to go.

Very recently, I stayed at a hotel directly adjacent to the "Rockefeller controlled" University of Chicago, who undoubtably provides all the business for the hotel, and the first thing I was given was a detailed floor plan. Who can I arrest for terrorism?

Posted by: Malooga | Dec 5 2008 18:51 utc | 44

Let me be more clear:

How can one be shown the emergency exits to any structure, stabile or mobile -- for safety sake -- without a detailed floor plan. Are we advocating the abolition of emergency preparedness, or are we advocating the apprehension of everyone who receives that training?

Posted by: Malooga | Dec 5 2008 18:55 utc | 45

Fucking hell the twisted little man/woman is getting desperate. Must have had to pore thru the dawn several times over to find a couple of meaningless quotes that are so ambiguous they don't mean shit.
"The government must prepare for this possibility" is hardly an admission of guilt. More like if proof is shown the government must be ready to act. So far no proof has been revealed.
If there was any we would have been told it, that we can be sure of when dealing with an empire that rules through it's media and compliant ass lickers like slothrop.

Similarly "Cracking down on militant groups that have deep roots in Pakistani society and have fanned out across the country will be a tough task that will require substantial groundwork." is no admission of guilt just an acknowledgement that the years of amerikan assisted military dictatorship in Pakistan have engendered many diverse resistance groups, that these groups are deeply entrenched in Pakistani society and cannot easily be 'rooted out'. Nowhere is there any concession that or admission that there are proven links between Pakistan's domestic activists and the attacks on Mumbai.

These second cut and paste is even more desperate.
The article describes the impact of Mumbai on the Indian electoral process and the need to assuage the Indian voters now that the BJP plans on campaigning on Mumbai whether or not there was any link between the Mumbai attack and Pakistan. Simple realpolitik to ensure that India/Pakistan relationships remain on an even keel.
At no stage has anyone in any article conceded an ISI or official Pakistani government involvement. All in fact argue the opposite but that doesn't deter slothrop's pathetic attention seeking behaviour.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Dec 5 2008 19:35 utc | 46

Stocking the fire: Three killed in suspected US missile strike in Pakistan: official

A missile strike by a suspected US drone killed at least three militants Friday in a Pakistani tribal district known to be a stronghold of Al-Qaeda and the Taliban, an official said.

"A missile fired by a suspected US drone killed three people outside the town of Mir Ali in Miranshah tribal district," a senior security official told AFP.

Local officials confirmed the strike and said it targeted the houses of a suspected Taliban militant north of Mir Ali.
...

Posted by: b | Dec 5 2008 20:00 utc | 47

You'll get your ass handed to you again, debs. This is right up there with "moqtada: greatest military strategist since mao." Or my recent favorite: "american capitalism [!] will fail when china decides not to finance american debt."

Posted by: slothrop | Dec 5 2008 20:24 utc | 48

Last time I checked Moqtada was still alive and waiting for those smelly americans to go back to their ruined country, for Sistani to finally meet Allah, for the, oh so popular US-Iran stooges, SCIRI to be wiped in the south and Maliki and what remains of his little Dawah section to be disappear from the political scene. The Bush junta has been begging for three monts for a SOFA/retreat to be signed and from his house in Najaf the cryptic Sistani is making noises about that signed SOFA being worhtless unless it's approved in a referendum. And it won't be unless it comes married with a real retreat plan. Sistani and co will make sure of that. At which point Moqtada would have been in the 'good' side since ever.

American finance scam capitalism seems to be already failing without requiring any external help so I guess that China will have better things to plan for.

Posted by: ThePaper | Dec 5 2008 21:05 utc | 49

Malooga,

Thanks for taking on typepad to post 21, 22. Interesting reads.

Posted by: Hamburger | Dec 5 2008 23:01 utc | 50

From China Hand linked to by b @ 30,

[Gul's] views probably resonate more with Pakistani public opinion than the pro-U.S./India-accommodating policies of the Zardari government.

It does not appear that anyone—inside or outside of Pakistan—can mess with the ISI or Hamid Gul lightly.


To be read against this recent newspiece over at Monsters&Critics:

Report: US in bid to declare former Pakistani spies terrorists

Islamabad - The US authorities are seeking to have four former officers of Pakistan's premier spy agency, including its former chief, declared as international terrorists, a media report claimed on Thursday.

The Foreign Ministry in Islamabad had referred the issue to the Prime Minister's Secretariat, which had yet to respond to it, English-language daily The News reported, citing a ministry insider.

It said the US had put forward to the UN Security Council names of four former officers of Pakistan's military-run Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) agency, whom it wanted to be on the list of international terrorists.

Among the nominated people was ex-ISI chief Hameed Gul, a retired lieutenant general who headed the powerful intelligence agency between 1987 and 1989, the report said.
(snip)

Gul told the private Geo news channel, a sister media outlet of the newspaper, that he learnt about the issue a few weeks ago through 'sympathetic diplomats', and Pakistan's Foreign Secretary Salman Basheer later confirmed the US move.

The report in The News said a spokesman for the ministry did not comment on the matter, while the US embassy in Islamabad also denied having any knowledge.
(snip)


I want to hope this is an 'implied threat' for political pressure, and not a real move...

Posted by: Alamet | Dec 6 2008 0:41 utc | 51

I've as good as given up on the English lang. Indian media in terms of credible info, but this is too interesting to pass:

(snip)
Even before Maharashtra police visited Leopold Cafe, the popular watering hole where the terror attacks started, a secret Australian service police agency was there. Owner of the Colaba cafe Farhang Jehani confirmed that a police agency from Australia questioned him about Wednesday night's attacks and examined the site.

The six-member team from Down Under including a woman visited the restaurant around 4pm before heading out to the Taj. Dressed in casual civilian clothes and accompanied by an Indian officer who acted as a mediator, the team inspected the cafe and surrounding vicinity.

"We are from the Australian secret police service, but we are not permitted to talk to the media,'' one of the members of the team told TOI when asked about the purpose of the visit. Two Australian nationals were among those killed in the attacks — Douglas Markelo and Brett Taylor.
(snip)

Posted by: Alamet | Dec 6 2008 0:46 utc | 52

I've as good as given up on the English lang. Indian media in terms of credible info

All media contains interests; why should something as big as this to India not invoke the same interests; the important question is, what are the interests of the Indian elite, and are they unified; if not what are the differences; and what is the populist opposition, if any?

@hamburger:

#22 is a basic structural analysis. If the press is inciting the public to war, what are its antecendents, and what does that tell us in interpreting media?

Several years ago, a post like this would have been one of the first three responses to b's story (and I wouldn't have needed to post it). But now members of the blogosphere (and this blog) seem to have forgotten all about structural analysis in favor of the great man theory of history, (Obama's gonna save us.) or worse, the canned liberal soap opera response to the international "catastrophe du jour." I wouldn't have plowed through all 426 pages of C.L.R. James' spellbinding 'The Black Jacobins," if those theories had ANY credence whatsoever:

The writing of history becomes ever more difficult. The power of God or the weakness of man, Christianity or the divine right of kings to govern wrong, can easily be made responsible for the downfall of states and the birth of new societies. Such elementary conceptions lend themselves willingly to narrative treatment and from Tacitus to Maucalay, from Thucydides to Green, the traditionally famous historians have been more artist than scientist: they wrote so well because they saw so little. To-day by a natural reaction we tend to a personification of the social forces, great men being merely or nearly instruments in the hands of economic destiny. As so often the truth does not lie in between. Great men make history, but only such history as it is possible for them to make. Their freedom of achievement is limited by the necessities of their environment. To portray the limits of those necessities and the realization, complete or partial, of all possibilities, that is the true business of the historian.

#21:

Well, if this blog could get to where it was three or four years ago, where reasoned intellectual discourse held some attraction and sway, this might have been an interesting post generating some well deserved relevant and trenchant criticism. Now, it seems ad hominems and shock therapy are the carte du jour.

I am still grateful for the deep and manifold contributions of debs is dead, r'giap. Tangerine, Uncle $cam, Monolycus when present, etc., but where is the new generation of analysts rising up to take their places?

Posted by: Malooga | Dec 6 2008 2:37 utc | 53

(cont. before Typepad overheats and begins giving me all the typing exercises I failed in High School;)

Lenin's Tomb still is capable of deep reasoned analysis and discourse; but being English, they are often way off in their reading of American Politics. Surely there are enough Americans here to provide a deeper insight than one's immediate endocrine reaction.

Ah well, that is the nature of blogs: today's post rapidly becomes as stale as yesterdays baguette. It's winter; I'm better off making soup.

Posted by: Malooga | Dec 6 2008 2:48 utc | 54

It is hard to find as many well researched, and well presented discussions like the ones I’ve found here. I am truly thankful to those posters who spend so much time developing the lengthy cut and pasted, linked arguments.
Reading these post reminds me of a roommate who’d been a lawyer before becoming a ski bum. He never read just one book alone, but would have, at the very least, an atlas out to see where things were. And often he’d have a complementary book that might have explained the important points in the actual book he was reading.
I wish I’d been educated to understand subjects that well. I waste much time on useless reading, twiddling my thumbs, licking the ice off the car windows, things like that.
I feel a definite intellectual inferiority to folks that can gather and present information like many seem to do here. When ever I find thinking people I get a little scared wondering if maybe I ended up in the wrong room.
I go on and on to friends about the time I was seated at a table with the ceos of abc, cbs, pbs and a couple other media moguls. We were seated at a table in the back of this big banquet tent for a meeting sponsored by Foresman Little. Colin Powel was doing the Macarena for some folks in the front of the room. I was thinking that if something like a bomb went off, my name wouldn’t be one that made the obits. I’d have been listed under the “innocent bystander” tag along with the waiters and hookers pretending to be the bigwigs dates.
I was there with a reporter from the local paper to do a fluff piece on the big names because the property’s owner invited us. He was no small potato, but when a ski instructor/dirt pimp at the table realized who I was he made a stink and the reporter and I were kicked-out. We were offered a sweet deal to never do a story about the mess. We didn’t do a story because there wasn’t one to do; we’d been invited by someone too low on the totem pole to invite media. We didn’t want to embarrass him anymore than he already was and we both had enough integrity not to accept the bribe, I mean gift.
That was one of those cases of being in the wrong room and it was a room full of the smart people, at least for that moment in time the world thought they were.
And now back to my thoughts on the Mumbai attacks…
This time of year gives us, at least in America, the beginning of our acceptance of being lied-to by authority.
Christmas time and the wonderful fable of Santa Claus.
This mysterious and secret, but benevolent, elf who leaves us gifts every year that have “made in china” rather than “made in the north pole” on the labels.
How hard is it to figure that trick out? But we bought into it, because if we didn’t, we might miss out on some gift we wanted. Think of the poor parents being socialized to teach their children to think of their caregivers as lying sneaks. How hard is it then to move foreword in time and convince these same people X from Y did Z?
The news punishes us with a constant barrage of lies we all want to believe and mostly do. As long as everything is covered like a sporting event we will never teach people the importance of dialogue.
It is cheaper to pay long distance charges at peak hours discussing nation’s problems them bombing the hell out of a bunch of poor folks.
Rambling too much, sorry.

dave

Posted by: david | Dec 6 2008 5:55 utc | 55

@Alamet - 52 - China Hand has an update on the pressing for Gul: Playing With Fire

In other words, Gul is proposing an alternative political and diplomatic roadmap for Pakistan. Instead of cleaving to the United States, as the Zardari government has done, and buying into the whole anti-Taliban and anti-al Qaeda strategy that is devastating Pakistan, Gul is proposing a alternate tie-up with two strategic competitors of the United States—Russia and China.

Given the fundamentals of Pakistan right now—growing dissatisfaction with the Zardari government, a dislike of the U.S. security strategy that is approaching hatred, a burgeoning economic and security crisis, and a feeling of desperation and persecution that now finds India as well as America as its focus—Gul will find fertile ground for his rhetorical seeds.


He/she is wrong on UN terrorist list process. There is no need to "prove" that someone is a terrorist tp be put on that list. Say-so by one of the permanent five is enough.

But just as China Hand I expect such a move to have an enormous backslash.

Posted by: b | Dec 6 2008 7:39 utc | 56

Posted by: Alamet | Dec 6 2008 18:12 utc | 57

ahhh, welcome to our little bar david interesting post @56
thanks for sharing it. That's a might stout drink.

B, I want to apologize for my short temper earlier, and I will as Did suggests take my concerns to the ot because, their are still some gripes I have, but I felt I needed to make amends for my harsh reaction here.


Malooga to your #54

Wow! I'm going to have to process that one, before I speak to it. However, I for one am so glad to have you here and posting somewhat consistently of late and welcome you for as long as you will drink with us. I consider you one of the many hard hitters here, and always enjoy how you seem to articulate things that I often don't have the energy to express. I admire that in most MOA's here too. But you and Monolycus especially, always seem to ping my synapses, perhaps because of my own ethnocentrism of being an American, I don't know. Around for the house! Pour yourself one to b, you deserve it.

I'll end with this, the way things are looking with the greatest robbery in history in full swing, I still get substantive food here, but have also seen the collective analysis wane, out of what I suspect is collective regression, due in part to the abyss we are on the brink of. Finally, without any shame of being alarmist, I can foresee a time when out of hunger, death or laojiao will be life's greatest gift to the future for many of us in the lower caste.

/derail

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 6 2008 18:19 utc | 58

This will be significant if true:

Obama transition team member Sonal Shah may resign over VHP ties

It's rumor so far, but the links the post includes are interesting.

Posted by: Alamet | Dec 6 2008 18:25 utc | 59

Chidanand Rajghatta alert. this is the same journalist from timesofindia who brought us the kagan quotes and other blatherings lately sited here titled Pak on track to being named terrorist state, and
US, UK, Israel ramp up intelligence aid to India.

the new article titled Pak on track to being named terrorist state doesn't disappoint.

Washington: The United States is dusting off a long-discarded proposal to declare Pakistan a state sponsor of terrorism. But with the Bush administration now in its final six weeks in office, a decision in this regard is being left to the incoming Obama government, sources said, contingent on corrective actions taken in the meantime by Islamabad to the satisfaction of India, US and other countries affected by Pakistan's toxic export of death.

US intelligence circles are now re-evaluating Pakistan's contribution to the war on terror, and the ISI's dominant role in the country and its ties with jihadi outfits, at the behest of the Bush administration. The White House itself lost faith in the Pakistan Army's bonafides several months ago which led to Washington's decision to withdraw support to military ruler Pervez Musharraf and back a new civilian government, officials and congressional aides who spoke on background explained. The decision to dump Musharraf was taken at vice-president Dick Cheney recommendation, they added, because of evidence that Pakistan was continuing to help Taliban elements attacking Nato forces.

....

But it now appears that the ISI has cranked up its policy from mere infiltration and support to outright commando style attacks.

Despite a soft-line adopted by Bush administration in public to the benefit of doubt to Pakistan's civilian government and spur it into action, Washington has little doubt that the terrorist attack on Mumbai was sponsored and planned with state support, US officials are saying privately. One things is certain; this was not a run-of-the mill LeT operation.

"I think this event looks a lot more like a classical Special Forces or commando-style raid than it does like any terrorist attack we've seen before," David Kilcullen, a counter insurgency military analyst who served as an advisor to Gen. Davis Petraeus tells Fareed Zakaria in the upcoming edition of his program GPS, articulating what US officials are saying in private. "No al-Qaida-linked terrorist group and certainly never Lashkar-e-Taiba has mounted a maritime raid of this type or complexity."

The US intelligence community believes that hijacking a fishing vessel, infiltrating via the sea, via inflatable boat, launching diversionary attacks designed to pull the first responders out of the way of the subsequent follow on groups that struck the Oberoi and the Taj Mahal, the Nariman Center and the equipment the terrorists carried and their attire were all in the vein of a covert special-forces raid rather than a traditional terrorist attack.

it's not like they waste any time w/the narrative. and naturally they publish this outside the country first , as per most of the overt destructive propaganda.

Posted by: annie | Dec 6 2008 20:13 utc | 60

(Found via The Newshoggers)

Wow... Just wow!

Arrested man undercover Special Police Officer

One of the two Indian men arrested for illegally buying mobile phone cards used by the gunmen in the Mumbai attacks was a counterinsurgency police officer who may have been on an undercover mission, security officials said Saturday, demanding his release.
(snip)

Earlier Saturday, Calcutta police announced the arrests of Ahmed and Tauseef Rahman, who allegedly bought SIM cards by using fake documents, including identification cards of dead people. The cards allow users switch their cellular service to phones other than their own.

Rahman, of West Bengal state, later sold them to Ahmed, said Rajeev Kumar a senior Calcutta police officer.

Both men were arrested Friday and charged with fraud and criminal conspiracy, Kumar said, adding that police were still investigating how the 10 gunmen obtained the SIM cards.

But the announcement had police in Srinagar, the main city in Indian-controlled Kashmir, fuming.

We have told Calcutta police that Ahmed is "our man and it's now up to them how to facilitate his release," said one senior officer speaking on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the information. Other police officials in Kashmir supported his account.

The officer said Ahmed was a Special Police Officer, part of a semiofficial counterinsurgency network whose members are usually drawn from former militants. The force is run on a special funding from the federal Ministry of Home Affairs.
(snip)


Why am I reminded of the Madrid bombings?..

Posted by: Alamet | Dec 6 2008 20:52 utc | 61

wow is right.

Posted by: annie | Dec 6 2008 22:35 utc | 62

Malooga #21--

Very nice overview.

Malooga #41--

Yes: While whodunit is fascinating, who successfully gets blamed is what is strategically important. What comes out of USuk, and its media, will surely be lies, and yet hold important clues to actual strategic objectives.

Yes: Amazing: After seven years we still know NOTHING of substance about 9/11. Unless you think 9/11 really was run out of the White House like those tin-foil hat looneys think: Then its not amazing at all.

At this point, it would seem the Pakistani war is on, and I suppose we will start seeing real action (as opposed to rocket attacks from drones) this spring.

Having said that, could it fizzle, just as the re-match of Georgia with Russia fizzled? But I don't think so.

Who will fight it? Still an open question: Plainly, the US is trying to get India to do the work, but success in this is not sure.

Posted by: Gaianne | Dec 7 2008 3:08 utc | 63

Remember, the ruling class (of all countries) do not care about people. No one (not even our own Gandhi of Gab, Baby Buddha 'Bam Bam' himself, despite what the addle-brained liberals on this blog and elsewhere believe -- or "hope") cares about the people of Pakistan.

(Or as Louie from the movie Casabanca might say, "I'm shocked, shocked, that the man we chose to run our Empire is behaving like an Emperor!")

This conflict (Pakistan) essentially is composed of five primary objectives:

1) The push to control Central Asian oil resources.
2) The aim to neutralize Russian power and influence by surrounding it, and breaking its energy-supply network.
3) A proxy war with China, which includes surrounding it (remember Afghanistan shares a critical border with China, through which CIA/Soros/Gene Sharp Einstein Institute trained manufactured ethnic "independence" movements, similar to Tibet, can be infiltrated), and gaining control of the China-developed deep-water port and oil and gas transportation network.
4) The drive to gain control of Pakistan's nukes, and put an end to semi-peripheral state defensive nuclear proliferation as a protective national strategy.
5) The long-term push to control world food supplies through GMO/terminator technology. Put in place last decade in South America (mainly Soya and Corn) during its engineered "financial crisis", extended to Iraq recently, control of Pakistan's wheat crop would put further leverage on the peripheral world, especially Africa (again working hand-in-hand with Africom).

It is important to point out that implementing Geo-Political strategy is a long-term process with many short-term gains and loses. Sometimes this is overlooked here, and on many liberal and progressive websites, where the outrage-du-jour takes precedence, or the Progressive approach is merely to run the Empire more efficiently (Kerry, Obama): the million articles over the last few years that we don't have enough troops, or we have the wrong weapons, or we have "lost" Iraq or Afghanistan.

This is not to say that short-term tactics and current events are not important (the latest resistance movement, Afriscam basing, etc.), but to bear foremost in mind when making geo-political pronouncements that State planner horizons extend at least fifty years into the future.

For instance, the ubiquitous American Myth that "we lost Vietnam." Nothing could be further from the truth. The goals in Vietnam were two-fold: To prevent the emergence of a successful redistributive example, and to open the country to foreign investment and markets. The first goal was achieved militarily before the US left: The country -- and surrounding countries were completely destroyed. The second goal took an additional 15 or so years of IMF/World Bank shenanigans and core country unified trade policy to prize open the oyster. But the goals were, of course, achieved.

Similarly, both Bush and Rumsfeld spoke early on about 15-20 year counter-insurgency horizons. Why so long? CI, or "pacification" essentially means ending all "terrorism", which is code for resistance, i.e. State-monoploy of power. This involves largely destroying an entire generation and starving the population, then providing limited opportunity to the next generation to co-opt them into the Imperial project. The jury will be out on the success or failure of this strategy in Iraq and Afghanistan for a long time to come.

While I'm on the topic of Emperor 'Bam Bam', it is noteworthy to observe the the world's most heinous living war criminal, Henry Kissinger himself, believes that the young tyro "has appointed an extraordinary team for national security policy," a real "Team of Heavyweights."(No more links because of typepad, its in the Wash Post) It just warms the cockles of my heart to hear this and gives me hope that those who spent time and money campaigning for our new Emperor weren't "identifying more with the guards than with the other inmates." Oh yeah, Dr. K is not an inmate yet....

It should also be remarked upon that when our new "Disembler-in-Chief" talks tough about terrorism, considering the laws and precedents of the Bush regime, that means all opposition to State policy, including but not limited to: the grandmothers who were recently jailed for contributing to a charity, hippies against logging out west, my teenage friends in Boston who are against vivisection and are now spending 20 years to life in jail, etc. For them, for Leonard and Mumia, and for countless others, the new Emporer brings in no "Change" or "Hope;" merely the sternly articulated threat of escalation. All of these who I mention above are far more clear than starry-eyed liberals of privilege about the difference between guards and inmates in this society.

There is no meaningful Hope without true wisdom and incisive knowledge of the machinations of capitalism, and no chance of positive Change without confrontation. Power concedes nothing. Read your Howard Zinn and Michael Parenti.

Since you mentioned 9-11, Gaianne, for those who missed it, last month Alternet carried a three-part 14,000 word debate between liberal reporter icon Matt Taibi and David Ray Griffin. Highly recommended, if you are to read anything about 9-11, this is it. DRG just shredded Taibi to pieces with his rapier logic, masterful grasp of detail, and unshakeable composure. If ever there was an advertisment for the importance of studying logic and philosophy as an aid to developing critical thinking, DRG's incisive, shall I say, bravado, performance was it.

Gaianne-

By the way, I will be in Hartford at the rally tomorrow.

Posted by: Malooga | Dec 7 2008 6:35 utc | 64

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