Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 4, 2008
Election Results

When the results come in, I will be asleep. That is a time zone issue, but also the fact that knowing the results today or tomorrow will not change anything.

Anyway – please let us know in comments what the results are and, more importantly, what the reaction to these are. Parties in the streets?

Assessing from far away, anything but a sound Obama win would lead to serious riots. I think the elites and the media know as much and will take care that it does not happen. Obama will win and they will press him to go along with their program: Ross, Rubin and Rahm may give you an idea of what that program will be.

An Obama win will make little difference for the world. McCain would probably bomb other people than Obama will bomb. To the folks who will have their limbs teared off, to prove the U.S. president’s copulation capacities to the U.S. population, that will make no difference at all.

Sorry for such pessimism. But Obama did not beat the system – he simply was more effective using it than McCain. Maybe he will use the power he gained wisely.

But that is unlikely – and a frightening thought.

Comments

from the angry arab:
Flash: Obama won. quote:
I just ran into John Zogby of Zogby International and he tells me that based on his exit polling data, Obama has won the election although he is not sure whether it will be a landslide or not. I pressed him because he last predicted that Kerry had won in 2004, and got very nervous and cautious but said that it would be so shocking if McCain were to win. He allowed me to quote him here.
Posted by As’ad at 1:10 PM
link
Remember the confusion and obfuscations about exit polls in 2004?

Posted by: Tangerine | Nov 4 2008 21:34 utc | 1

CNN (eu) is running a ‘vote problem’ show with a call in number, even showing where most calls are coming from on a map. Heh, too funny, fraud and obstruction are just cool stuff, normal, you can get onto the Teevee if you report it! “Soggy” ballots seem to be the new thing.
The coverage is completely different from 2004. CNN shows, between their blah, Obama speaking, hugging his daughters, walking about, etc.
The True Confessions of an Election Official -Inside the machinery of the 2008 vote-
Very lowly official on the ground.
Read about candy as reward, getting course credits for voting, ppl who worry about dying after they vote, etc.
link

Posted by: Tangerine | Nov 4 2008 22:39 utc | 2

Folks might want to put this talk into your favorite audio/media player, it’s Naomi Klein talk on the Shock Doctrine, but further, with regards, the the latest financial bail-out and Obama and his circle of economic advisers. The above is a direct link to her 10/17/08 Santa Cruz Ca. talk where she emphasizes on the new appointee, “Hank” Paulson Jr. as daddy of all wealth including the dereg/privatization game post Bush. For those that have heard her before the good stuff starts about 8:34 in after formalities and a clip from the Shock Doctrine movie.
Fuck the new leaders, follow the money, watch the system, however, a caveat, It’s not [just] “follow the money” [anymore] but, rather “follow the money and the status of the [political] job or social position” and political maneuvering; the way career politicians set up scenarios to cash in at a later date, be it direct or indirect by workin’ the system with insider knowledge.
Obama may be a symbol in one aspect, but he will still represent corporate rule. NOT DEMOCRACY. Further, it’s not over yet, McPalin, could still pull of the rove playbook, remember Ohio, Florida?
Article is hyperlinked to sources at original here: Two More U.S. Military Units Assigned For Homeland Security
Two More U.S. Military Units Assigned For Homeland Security
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Tuesday, November 4, 2008
Northcom has announced that two more U.S. military units will be assigned for domestic homeland security missions, bringing the total number of combat ready service members operating inside the U.S. to around 4,700, as fears grow about the increasing militarization of law enforcement.
The announcement follows the controversy surrounding a September 8 Army Times report (revised on September 30), which revealed that the 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team, fresh from combat duties in Iraq, would be operating inside America for tasks including “civil unrest and crowd control,” a detail that was later denied by Northcom despite the concession that forces would be armed with both non-lethal and lethal weapons as well as having access to tanks.
“In the next three years the military plans to activate and train an estimated 4,700 service members for specialized domestic operations, according to Air Force Gen. Gene Renuart, commander of U.S. Northern Command, which was created in 2002 for homeland defense missions,” reports the Colorado Independent.
“It’s to help us manage the consequences of a large-scale event,” said Renuart. “We have one [unit] now trained and equipped and assigned to the Northern Command. We’ll grow a second one this calendar year of 2009 and a third one in the calendar year 2010 so we can provide the nation three sets of capabilities that could respond to an event of the size of 9/11 or larger.”
But as Mike German, national security counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union’s legislative office in Washington., D.C., points out, “This isn’t a military police brigade or a civil affairs brigade. This is actually a combat brigade being assigned a domestic mission.”
“It’s fine for the general to say that,” said counter-terrorist operations specialist German. “But we want to know what the policies actually are, what the roles are and what the regulations are to see whether this is actually complying with the law.”
TOLEDO, OHIO POLICE ISSUED RIOT GEAR…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Nov 4 2008 23:44 utc | 3

Watching CNN. Some preliminary results Kentucky Mc Cain 65% Obama 35 %. Indiana Obama 51 %, Mc Cain 48 %.
Looks like my husband was right when he said that Americans are talking publicly like they will vote for Obama but deep inside they are racists and will never vote for a black president ( until whites are outnumbered with blacks). We’ll see…I am not optimistic all though I feel about Obama totally same way as B.
Then again maybe it’s good if Mc Cain wins. USA will go down faster…I wouldn’t care too much if we are not all chained with USA…

Posted by: vbo | Nov 4 2008 23:52 utc | 4

Addendum: In case the above doesn’t work…Naomi Klein talk on “The Shock Doctrine”. The economic terrorism goes on no matter who fly’s the flag. Professors here on campus predict Montana for McPalin.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Nov 4 2008 23:55 utc | 5

Here on Australian channel 9 commentators predict landslide win for Obama looking at exit polls…Then again they said back then it also looked like Kerry will win looking at those polls…
The whole world is following this election…cause we are all so much dependant on bloody USA…Sorry guys but it makes me sick to be a part of your Empire…

Posted by: vbo | Nov 5 2008 0:28 utc | 6

vbo,
Kentucky is a rethug state – no one expects it to go to Obama.
Virginia is the state to watch and it will very likely go Dem. As will N. Carolina. Obama can win without Indiana – another traditionally rethug state – but it’s a toss up at this point. Obama has the EVotes – it’s a question of whether or not it will be a landslide. The pathetic war criminal and his creationist side-kick will be blamed for the biggest rethug loss in their sorry history and rightly blamed for it.

Posted by: Hamburger | Nov 5 2008 0:29 utc | 7

ABC USA Electoral vote : Obama 3 Mc Cain 8…

Posted by: vbo | Nov 5 2008 0:38 utc | 8

Exit polls published:
Exit Polls 2008: See The Full Results

The states looking good for Obama:

Florida: 52 percent to 44 percent
Iowa: 52 percent to 48 percent
Missouri: 52 percent to 48 percent
North Carolina: 52 percent to 48 percent
New Hampshire: 57 percent to 43 percent
Nevada: 55 percent to 45 percent
Pennsylvania: 57 percent to 42 percent
Ohio: 54 percent to 45 percent
Wisconsin: 58 percent to 42 percent
Indiana: 52 percent to 48 percent
New Mexico: 56 percent to 43 percent
Minnesota: 60 percent to 39 percent
Michigan: 60 percent to 39 percent

The states where McCain is leading in exit polls:

Georgia: 51 percent to 47 percent
West Virginia: 45 percent to 55 percent

Worrying caveat:
Exit Polls 2008: See The Full Results

Again, as a point of caution, here is what Democratic pollster Stan Greenberg said about exit polls in an interview today with the Huffington Post: “The biggest problem with exit polls is… we do know that young voters are much more likely to do an exit survey and seniors are much less likely to do an exit poll,” he said. “So exit polls are heavily waited to young people, which normal bias favors Democrats especially this year.”

Worrying, in the sense that it undermines the trust in exit polls – which remain the best indicator of election fraud. But though I think there will be some Diebold effect, I think Obama will still win the presidency.

Posted by: a swedish kind of death | Nov 5 2008 0:42 utc | 9

Virginia McCain 57% Obama 42%…

Posted by: vbo | Nov 5 2008 0:44 utc | 10

DO NOT READ THIS UNLESS YOU HAVE ALREADY VOTED
a key trend thats showing up is Obama doing significantly better than Kerry among White voters where he’s losing.

Posted by: jony_b_cool | Nov 5 2008 0:52 utc | 11

Electoral vote McCain 16 Obama 3…

Posted by: vbo | Nov 5 2008 0:57 utc | 12

EV Obama 102
McCain 34
Much better now…

Posted by: vbo | Nov 5 2008 1:11 utc | 13

Tenn. for Mcpalin, Pennsylvania for Obomba according to KPFA.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Nov 5 2008 1:15 utc | 14

SkyNews projecting Pennsylvania for Obama. If true – and and most very likely is – then it’s OVER FOR MCCAIN!
Obama is doing much better than Bush did in Indiana rural areas. Urban areas are already O’s so even Indiana could go Obama. Landslide folks – question is how far over 300 can he go??

Posted by: Hamburger | Nov 5 2008 1:32 utc | 15

my darling hamburger
when will one of those red states go blue

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 5 2008 1:47 utc | 16

Heading off to the big Backbone Campaign victory party in my neck of the woods. Got a whole bunch of mortar fireworks I’m just itching to fire off, when the moment arrives. Cheers!!

Posted by: anna missed | Nov 5 2008 1:50 utc | 17

IT’S OVER!!! (But the networks won’t tell you because CA, WA, and OR haven’t closed yet.)
CNN is projecting 199 electoral votes now. The above 3 states are “slam dunks” for Obama, which will give him more than the 270 needed.
Sleep tight!

Posted by: JohnH | Nov 5 2008 2:52 utc | 18

Assuming no one says Ohio was a mistake, the race is over, but these states matter: NC, VA, IN, MO, FL
With those it would be a real rout, which I think is an important step in the national purging of the past years that has to take place.
Obama will greatly disappoint the left, yes, this is clear, but take a look at the crowd in Chicago: young, serious (at this point – I hope they don’t later make me look bad by doing anything stupid), multi-hued. All lofty ‘hope’ rhetoric aside, that word does creep into the picture at least a little tonight.

Posted by: mats | Nov 5 2008 3:30 utc | 19

after 8 yrs of bush,it just feels so good to have a break.
for now tonight i’m smiling as my life circles the drain.couldn’t be happier.

Posted by: onzaga | Nov 5 2008 3:46 utc | 20

time to prosecute cheney, bush, et al. no excuses, barrack. no hokey appeals to unification, no calls for moving on, no more impunity.

Posted by: b real | Nov 5 2008 4:10 utc | 21

The McCain concession speech is the best he’s done throughout the campaign.

Posted by: YY | Nov 5 2008 4:24 utc | 22

Check This out.

Posted by: lurker206 | Nov 5 2008 4:34 utc | 23

i voted in philly this morning. chinatown. 15th ward, stood in line 3 hours. the line stretched 3 blocks. the vibe was something in between queueing up to kick mussolini and boarding the close encounters spaceship . its midnight now. obama at 338 electoralvotes. horns honking down vine street – calls coming in from friends astounded relieved stunned amazed and braced. gloom of alabama be damned. things have changed.

Posted by: bianco | Nov 5 2008 4:34 utc | 24

what b real sd

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 5 2008 4:50 utc | 25

Yey Prez Obama!
Mentally I was apparently prepared for some last-minute chenanigans, with McCain winning Pennsylvania despite all odds and exit polls. But that did not happen, so yey!
Though somehow I find these spambots for “WoW Gold” very approriate. Sort of a modern day version of the whispering slave at the triumph chariot. A reminder of the illusions of success and so on.

Posted by: a swedish kind of death | Nov 5 2008 4:56 utc | 26

I just had to point out this post, because it was so TOTALLY OFF:
July 10, 2008
The democratic primaries were looking quite enthusiastic with a record number of voters and plenty of small donations. Obama is doing his very best to change that for the general election. To what end I do not know.
Does he really believe to pick up more voters on the right than he is losing on the left? If so, I think he is wrong.
Prediction: Voter participation in the general election will be at a record low.
++++++++++++++++
Turn out was quite high, and Obama takes it. I think we could take bets on how long it will take for disillusionment to set in, but for the Americans who happen to be of African descent, this election was a VERY BIG DEAL and is all about HOPE for the future.

Posted by: Susan – NC | Nov 5 2008 5:07 utc | 27

Big show is over now!Let’s go back to reality…

Posted by: vbo | Nov 5 2008 5:42 utc | 28

…and reality is:
An Obama win will make little difference for the world. McCain would probably bomb other people than Obama will bomb.

Posted by: vbo | Nov 5 2008 5:43 utc | 29

NY Times Editorial for Nov 4th makes good points about what Obama may accomplish and can’t avoid. Nothing utopian here, just nuts and bolts stuff that would make life a lot better for Americans. So, although he’ll still be our own imperialist, friend of Israel, etc., a lot of Americans may be grateful for him two years from now.

Posted by: seneca | Nov 5 2008 5:49 utc | 30

in manhattan, new yorkers are elated, there is cheering in the streets, car horns honking, high fives everywhere. i know he’s not perfect but he’s a far sight better than mccain. two things are likely: money will be invested in green policies and jobs and we are more likely to have universal single payer health care. these two things alone will majorly change the fabric of u.s. society. plus this resounding rejection of the bush administration just proved that americans are not a complete lost cause. and while this may be too emotional for some, i wept tonight to see the obamas and bidens together on the stage. it was a moment of healing for this country. to think of how i would be feeling to have witnessed the same moment with the mccain/palin crew instead says it all for me. we are far from out of the woods, but i think we stand a better chance of getting there.
and yep, b real, i’m with you. let the prosecutions begin. i know that work is already being done to prevent pardons and hope that cases are being prepared to put them away. there has to be some kind of accountability. obama’s team handled this election process and was so well prepared to fight election theft and disenfranchisement, that i cannot help but think that they will be just as committed to prosecuting.

Posted by: sharon | Nov 5 2008 5:55 utc | 31

that they will be just as committed to prosecuting.

Are you people serious? I can’t see anything like that there…That would be a pleasant surprise though…But nyah…they never do that…they (politicians) spare and are actually guarding each other because they are afraid for their own skin …so they never pay for their crimes…I naively expected it in Serbia…To my amazement they (new “democratic” power) even “reconciled” lately with Milosevic’s party and made a coalition to be able to govern…My God! Lucky I am not in Serbia any more or I’ll go crazy…

Posted by: vbo | Nov 5 2008 6:55 utc | 32

Sorry for such pessimism.
When you grow up b, you’ll learn that sorry doesn’t cut it. Sorry is what teenagers say when they fuck up, repeatedly, for no reason but their own thoughtless, childish, wilful selfishness.
Sorry is what turds like Jerry Faldwell or Jimmy Bakker say when they’re finally exposed for the sneeking, lying hypocrites that they are.
Sorry is what any miscreant criminal says when he’s finally brought to justice and seeks to scam himself some mercy from the decent people he sees only as marks.
You don’t have the faintest idea what the newly elected president of the US can achieve, so all of your supposition, all of your evidence-free negative judgments, all of your predictions of carnage and brutality mean absolutely nothing except to the high-school anarchists you seek to impress.
There is only one course for anyone with an once of percipience to follow; that is, to support in every way possible the new president, using the the chimp presidency as a touchstone. Every achievment must be acknowledged, every strategy to improve the US and world society must be acclaimed and every step forward recorded in large writ.
To do less is join the ranks of mindless cretins who have perpetrated the crimes of the last 30 years. You should need no reminding that the torture of Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran and Palestine has been carried out largely under the banner of Republicanism. This era must be closed.
President Obama is the hope of not only the US but the civilised world. Propaganda will flow from all those arraigned against him and they are many. Do not make the mistake of joining them so as to posture as a intellectual realist and don’t think that meaningless apologies will suffice for your thoughless prognostications made with a total lack of responsibility.
The real work starts now. All those with an ounce of courage, get to work.

Posted by: waldo | Nov 5 2008 11:50 utc | 33

waldo-
I hope you find good employ as a speechwriter.

Posted by: Malooga | Nov 5 2008 13:15 utc | 34

@waldo – if your ad hominem attack is an example for the times to come, there is all reason to be pessimistic.
So you will shut off your brain and support whatever order might come from the white-house? Half of the U.S. did that the last eight years. The results ain’t pretty.

Posted by: b | Nov 5 2008 13:18 utc | 35

Waldo, you really are a reptile. It was always too much to ask that the dawn of November 5th would bring a new sort of dialogue, but to come here pandering your pathetic exceptionalist shite is too much.
Wait till Obama picks his cabinet. And then come here and accuse us of being high-school anarchists.
If you’re the new dawn in America I’m going back to bed, you pathetic tool.

Posted by: Tantalus | Nov 5 2008 13:31 utc | 36

“President Obama is the hope of not only the US but the civilised world.”
uau!
that scene comes with full orchestra and shining lights from the sky, right?
don’t doubt that we, the uncivilized* world, will be on our knees when the moment comes

Posted by: rudolf | Nov 5 2008 15:13 utc | 37

Classy speech, waldo, but it’s not unprecedented for musicians to make those statements. This Grand Inquisitor act of yours would only be a case study in enantiodromia if the DNC and GOP truly were opposites to begin with.
I wish the best for the new Prez and hope he’s successful at pursuing a progressive agenda for all our sakes, but he doesn’t rate automatic fellating simply because he’s not a Republican. You give your blind faith and I’ll give my loyal opposition when necessary. If the Democrat Party had given their own loyal opposition at some point in the past eight years, I’d be more inclined to give them more faith.

Posted by: Monolycus | Nov 5 2008 15:41 utc | 38

vbo, to explain my optimism about the possibility of prosecutions happening, i am posting below the contents of an email that came to me from a fellow impeachment activist. he was forwarding what had been sent to him by the folks at velvet revolution who have been focusing on election protection. it is clear from the email that obama’s team has been proactive on this. i also know from people who have been meeting with congressional members and staffs that the dems did not impeach because they wanted a dem president and a 60 seat senate majority and were not willing to risk achieving that. there are many arguments against this strategy and for the last two years many of us have been hard at work making them. there really is no reason to go into them here. at this moment we are pushing still for impeachment and prosecutions and keeping bush from issuing pardons. i am seeing situations where leaders of the impeachment movement are finally working with members of congress on this. this is not to say that i fully trust the dems, but i do know that there is seething anger and profound concern on the hill about what has gone down. also taking into account how well obama’s team has run this campaign, and because of personal history i have an awareness of what this means to the african american community – the battle that has been won and what had to be done to win it because of the race issue – i will be very surprised if accountability is not pursued. we shall see.
anyway, the email that gives a window onto the obama campaign’s approach to theft of the election:

Link to Velvet Revolution — 4 November 2008 — We’re glad when any candidate tries to make sure that an election is clean and the results are true, and we commend the Obama campaign on their upcoming election day efforts. But we urge all candidates and elected officials to be more proactive and join us in our non-partisan election integrity work before November, 2010. Making our elections clean and verifiable takes a year-round effort, and having plans in place for Election Day itself is just not enough.
VELVET REVOLUTION HAS ACQUIRED A LEAKED COPY OF THE OFFICIAL OBAMA ELECTION OBSERVER MANUAL FOR THE STATE OF OHIO.
The manual is 53 pages long. The information contained therein is quite detailed, and is an indication that the campaign has a reasonably good understanding of the threats to election security posed by electronic voting machines, the vital importance of security procedures for the machines and the chain-of-custody for paper ballots, why provisional ballots should be given to a voter only as an absolute last resort, and the importance of post-election procedures for the voting machines and the ballots, both used and unused.
We’d like to post the entire pdf for your perusal, but our source has asked us to only post excerpts, not the entire document.
The manual has practical tips like “dress comfortably in business casual attire,” “wear comfortable shoes,” “bring your cell phone and charger,” and “bring treats for the pollworkers like donuts.”
But more importantly, there is vital information about election security.
For various problems that develop, the manual recommends one of four “actions” to be taken. Those actions are:
• Default Action: Resolve Problem Yourself If Possible!
• Action 1: Log and Call: Log the event in the “Observer’s Log,” [supplied in the manual] call the Supervisor/Boiler Room, and if you cannot call them, call 1-877-OBAMA-OH (1.877.622.6264).
• Action 2: Declaration and Call. Prepare an Incident Report/Declaration, call the Supervisor/Boiler Room, and if you cannot call them, call 1-877-OBAMA-OH (1.877.622.6264).
• Action 3: Log Only. Note the incident in the Observer Log.
Here are some of the guidelines regarding security procedures:
• Arrive by 6:00 a.m. so you can witness opening procedures and observe that security seals are present on all voting equipment and supply bags.
• Observe that Poll workers record the numbers of all security seals on the proper BOE from when seals are broken for setup.
• Note any unsealed voting equipment or supply bags. Action 3, Log Only.
• Report is memory card bag or voting machines are unsealed. Action 1, Log & Call.
• … Keep an eye on supplies during the day and take action of they seem to be running low. Action 1, Log & Call.
• In DRE counties, confirm that there are back up paper ballots. If there appear to be too few paper ballots available, take Action 1, Log & Call.
• Observe “Zero Report” printing. This is the report that proves there are no votes already on the machine. Insure that the report is run for each machine, signed by the poll workers, and secured in the manner described in your county’s Pollworker manual. If a “Zero Report” isn’t run, or shows something other than zero, take Action 1, Log & Call.

Posted by: sharon | Nov 5 2008 15:46 utc | 39

vbo, to continue. not sure if anyone has posted here about what went on in ohio on monday with the connell deposition re ohio 2004, but i agree with brasscheck tv that it may have played a role in last night’s results. nothing has been released yet about connell’s deposition, but there is a good possibility that it will lead to rove being subpoenaed and more. if obama’s team was on point on fighting disenfranchisement, i have hopes they will continue the fight. i also know that a brief on connell’s role in ohio – and the fact that his company also manages the internet portal for the hjc (kind of unbelievable but sadly true) – has made its way to michelle obama. let’s see what happens next.

Posted by: Anonymous | Nov 5 2008 15:55 utc | 40

Assessing from far away
Buck up, b. Keep film in your camera. That glorious day when “america falls over the cliff” while you “take pictures” may happen.
Hope, man. Hope!

Posted by: slothrop | Nov 5 2008 16:04 utc | 41

I apologize, b, for not agreeing with you.

Posted by: slothrop | Nov 5 2008 16:11 utc | 42

But, what an amazing night!
And how nice it is to watch the knuckleheads explode.
Happy days.

Posted by: slothrop | Nov 5 2008 16:12 utc | 43

sharon
i am a bit of a maximalist on this i want public hangings of the entire bush administration
i want the supreme, federal & state court judges to be whipped in a public square
i want the scibblers & stenographers be forced to write 7 billion times – i will in the future tell the truth
i want the speculators & profiteers be forced to clean the streets of haiti forever
i wante hedge fund managers to be hung & for it to become prime time tv
i want rupert murdoch to be interned in isolation in rikers in solitary with a guard from deep in the appalachia
& these are the least of things that i want

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 5 2008 17:04 utc | 44

@ 44: I’m with you r’giap.
Meet Alan Grayson, recently elected to Congress:
Democratic Congressional Candidate Alan Grayson on Iraq Reckoning: “We’ll Put People in Prison”

Alan Grayson: We don’t need truth and reconciliation, we need punishment. We need people to be held accountable for all the mistakes that they made that have screwed us up in this war and screwed us up in this economy. The economy is falling apart, the chickens are coming home to roost. You cannot spend $10,000 for every man, woman, and child in America for a war that never should have taken place in the first place.
Matt Stoller: But be specific, what do you mean by punishment?
Alan Grayson: We’ll put people in prison. We’ll take away the thing that they care about the most, their money. They stole, they hurt the troops, they killed people, they hurt the taxpayers year after year and they’ve destroyed this economy. They’re not going to get off scot-free.
Matt Stoller: Who’s ‘they’?
Alan Grayson: The people who have been running this government and their assistants who have been running companies like Halliburton. Think about it, we have a Vice President who was the head of Hallburton, who got a $23 million parting gift from them when he became Vice President. And he was the one who instigated this war and made Halliburton the largest army contractor in existence.

Posted by: Hamburger | Nov 5 2008 17:49 utc | 45

hamburger-
Can’t you read and interpret political speech after all of your time here (MOA)?
What Grayson is doing is called demagoging; he is channeling political anger so that it might be harnessed to his advantage and safely dissipated.
He is not dumb. He knows what he is doing and therefore carefully chooses his words. I’m as angry as anyone at Halliburton and Cheney, but, while what they did reeks of crony capitalism (Structurally all capitalists seek to minimize competition and control markets, this is not unique in the least, not even unique to Republicans.), what they did was not illegal, and not a damn thing can be done about it.
What was illegal was how the US repeatedly violated the Geneva conventions. But that directly confronts empire, and so will not ever be mentioned. Instead, we get the usual “We need people to be held accountable for all the mistakes that they made that have screwed us up in this war” democratic, Kerry, “we would have won this thing long ago if we had just prosecuted the war competently” meme. Do you really think the people of Iraq care about our competence?
I’ll vote for incompetent empire over competent anyday. Seriously. Lives are at stake. I think we should honor our incompetents and give them medals, like the Jews of “Schindler’s List” who manufactured ordinance that would not explode.
Politicians are skilled in walking a razor’s edge when they speak. After all, Politics is the art of misleading others to get what you (or your benefactors) want. If it was just a matter of inferring “the will of the people,” or some other such hogwash, we wouldn’t need such a spectacle, along with professional politicians, lobbyists, and billions of campaign contributions.
We should really have a class on political speech, with historical examples, for those who insist on grafting their (quite laudable) hopes and aspirations onto others.
Why are all of those, who are so gullible when it comes to political speech, suddenly so sharp when it comes to loaning me money, or believing me when I say that I love them so much that they must come up for a drink late at night? Hmmm….
P.S. Nobody “screwed up this economy.” Rather, they intentionally transferred money from the middle class to the ultra-wealthy. They screwed us (after the Clinton Democrats repealed Glass-Steagal). The “economy” is a symbolic metaphor used to mystify people. If he wants to take tax breaks away from the rich he should say so, like David Cay Johnston.

Posted by: Malooga | Nov 5 2008 18:39 utc | 46

@45
Ah, that’s more like it.
There needs to be some serious accountability – not political score-settling but the prosecution of actual and horrific crimes against the people of the USA and the world. The Dems will move very quickly towards some sort of reconciliation/healing bullshit. We can’t allow that to happen.

Posted by: Tantalus | Nov 5 2008 18:41 utc | 47

“An Obama win will make little difference for the world.”
Tantulus, if you’re not too busy burning down houses, remember this quote because I’m going to rub your nose in it.
b, you accuse the president-elect (with every piece of real evidence indicating the contrary) of being a war mongering capitalist/fascist but I’m indulging in ad hominen attacks.
Don’t be sorry, be truthful.

Posted by: waldo | Nov 5 2008 22:16 utc | 48

“An Obama win will make little difference for the world.”
I didn’t say that and I don’t believe it, Waldo. I think it’s pathetically unrealistic to expect a US president to have no impact on the world. Obama’s going to make a difference. I just hope it’s for the better and not for the worse. Another wedding party was bombed in Afghanistan on Monday – I found the news in a UK newspaper. Obama wants to widen the conflict in Afghanistan and take it over the border into Pakistan. That will mean a lot of wasted money, some dead Americans, more international goodwill down the crapper, but most of all it will bring more murdered innocents. My hope – there’s that word again – is that Obama will turn the tide away from massacre and towards peace. But nothing – NOTHING – he has said so far leads me to believe he is a peacemaker. I very much want to be proved wrong on this. I have no ideological irons in the fire.
My 82-year-old dad over in England is impressed with Obama. He thinks he’s statesmanlike and generally a good thing. But he doesn’t have any illusions. Utopia isn’t coming overnight. It’s not coming, ever. All we can do is hope to cobble together some approximation of it. Obama might be a good person to do that. We’ll find out.
I was watching the election last night with family and friends. No real Obama fans amongst them, but they all cried. They saw something change for their country and for their culture. I’m happy for them. They don’t have any illusions about his voting record or about his advisors. They just want to believe he’s a good, decent, intelligent man. And the evidence for that, at least, seems compelling. And at the very least I’ll be able to show my son that the president is a person of colour, just like him.
And I never want to have to explain that kids who look like him are being blown to pieces on that man’s say-so. Is that really too much to ask, Waldo, on this hopeful day?

Posted by: Tantalus | Nov 5 2008 23:54 utc | 49

@46
interesting comment to make to a linguistics professor. having had the pleasure of dining with hamburger, my perception is that parsing grayson’s remarks would not pose a problem.

Posted by: Anonymous | Nov 6 2008 1:15 utc | 50

“And I never want to have to explain that kids who look like him are being blown to pieces on that man’s say-so. Is that really too much to ask, Waldo, on this hopeful day?”
Tantalus, that’s not exactly what you said earlier. Your demand was that all killing of civilians was to cease immediately or Obama was the same as chimpy and the rest.
You must know the frightening and sinister depths of the MIMC (Milit./Idust/Med/Complex.), it’s secret divisions and it’s world-wide reach. The exceptional bestiality unleashed on Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia and now echoed in the Middle East was and is not totally controlled by anybody. Once military momentum has built up no-one can stop it dead: no one can bring the dogs of war to heel at a command. One air-craft carrier takes a mile to stop even in the direst emergency. To rein in the whole US military, a whole new national economy will have to be erected.
Tasks of this magnitude do not occur overnight. This site’s constant criticism of me as “Obamamaniac, Saviour worshipper, Dem shill/hack, etc etc ” is perfectly wrong because I know how fragile human beings and their works are and how difficult it is to succeed in even the most basic of tasks.
But as has been pointed out, I’m a musician and I have shaken hands and smiled and talked with tens of thousands of people at every type of social event and when seen at their best, humanity is inspiring. People want to be good, and do good things. People want to love each other and share community spirit. All that’s required is good leadership.
Obama has said that change will not be realised in one year or even one term and there’s absolutely nothing unreasonable or unrealistic about that. The point is to believe that he wants to enact change which will translate as far-reaching positive policy, the point is to trust him for at least one term.
And everyone, please, no comparisons between this administration and the previous one. It’s not just odious, it’s ludicrous in the extreme.

Posted by: waldo | Nov 6 2008 5:01 utc | 51

@rgiap #44
I couldn’t have put it better myself.
but I don’t think we are going to get our wish list, not even for xmas.

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 6 2008 9:30 utc | 52

Good to see you deA…
Dems lower expectations

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Nov 6 2008 10:13 utc | 53

Why are all of those, who are so gullible when it comes to political speech, suddenly so sharp when it comes to loaning me money..
(wry smile:) – very well put Malooga.

Posted by: DM | Nov 6 2008 11:25 utc | 54

Yes great to see you again DeAnander!

Posted by: vbo | Nov 6 2008 11:31 utc | 55