Re: “nationalising” the American banking system, who would have thought George W. Bush would leave office a “socialist”?!

Posted by: Spyware | Oct 18 2008 17:13 utc | 4

The auto loan industry is gearing up to get the Fed to buy up bad auto loans.
Beyond that, likely before Christmas, we will be hitting the Appliance Default Crisis of 2008, as people default on their Sears iceboxes, WalMart toasters, and those K-Mart microwaves.
But we have got to draw the line at letting any Americans go see a doctor. We aren’t Communists.

Posted by: Antifa | Oct 18 2008 17:36 utc | 6

From Gail Collins at the NY Times: Is Anybody Happy?
George W. Bush showed up on TV Friday morning to reassure the nation. What could possibly be worse?
Everybody knows that anything our president says is very likely wrong, and certainly won’t happen. If he announced: “I’m sending government agents to Spokane to arrest the looters,” we would expect that the officials would get lost, nobody would be arrested, and the looters probably never existed in the first place.
So hearts sunk throughout the nation when Bush appeared at a Chamber of Commerce gathering to say that the economy would recover.
“America is the most attractive destination for investors around the globe. America is the home of the most talented and enterprising and creative workers in the world,” said the president, who also insisted that “democratic capitalism remains the greatest system ever devised.”
Which translates into: all the money is going to Asia, nobody will ever get a job again and Karl Marx was right after all.
Bummer.

Posted by: Spyware | Oct 18 2008 18:06 utc | 8

I don’t think it’s as bad, or will be as bad as everyone’s making it out to be. In my neck of the woods people are still consuming like there’s no tomorrow, just as they have for the last 25 years, or more. I know this news is disheartening to folks like Bernhard and Remembererererergiap and Mapooba, but it’s not the end. Besides, it’s rather contradictory for them to cheer on a possible meltdown when you consider the people who always get hurt in such a crisis are the poor. Kind of sick to be cheering it on with delight when you consider that inconvenient fact. Of course, when did Communists ever think of people as anything more than objects to use in perpetuating their power, much like the Capitalists?

Posted by: Yuri Andropov | Oct 18 2008 18:51 utc | 10

I don’t think that is fair Yuri. I have met Bernhardt, spoken to r’giap, and read the writings of Malooga for many years now. I assure you that they are not cheering on a meltdown. It is probably a curse to be able to predict certain bad things and have the clarity of thought to observe them taking place. They are no more responsible for the current and upcoming crisis in the US than an astronomer is responsible for predicting a solar eclipse.
Sometimes people here say things that need a bit more thought but overall the observations are heartfelt and offered up with a great deal of sadness, sadness that the beacon shining up on the hill has lured a quarter billion into a fearful existence who somehow insist that they are the most privileged, greatest, smartest, and most capable people to have ever walked on this earth.
Though my life is very comfortable right now and I am extraordinarily fortunate to have a great family it was not always so and I know it can go away in an instant. I just finished watching SiCKO and it made me so angry I had to get up a couple of times and walk away from the teevee. I know we can do better than what are doing now and I am greatly irritated by twits who insist it is the best it can be and I need to shut up.
No, you STFU!
I was chatting with a friend of my wife last night who is solid republican, married to a senior Air Force officer making darn good money. They have been saving money for their children to go to college and doing all the right things. They moved to Virginia a few years ago and bought a huge house with no money down. She was dumbstruck that things had got so bad. They lost a great deal of money on the college fund for their son who will graduate high school this year and their house is now worth considerably less than what they paid for it though the taxes continue to go up. She feels cheated though still believes that the financial crisis was caused by stupid brown people who won’t pay their bills. I got the impression that she believed her investments had to pay good returns, there should be risk involved.
She is a college graduate and has lived in Europe and Asia with her husband, they traveled to China from Korea and have had the opportunity to observe many different cultures yet she makes the same mistakes and every other US citizen. Why is that? Is it not because of the very powerful imprint of exceptionalism?
sorry for rambling, still kinda upset from Sicko.

Posted by: dan of steele | Oct 18 2008 19:27 utc | 12

b, i don’t know what their obsession w/moon is lately.

Posted by: annie | Oct 18 2008 19:59 utc | 14

I assure you that they are not cheering on a meltdown.
They come across as mean-spirited, arrogant and taunting. They appear deeply insecure as is witnessed by their vitriolic reaction to anyone with whom they don’t agree.
Dan, I agree with most everything you said, and I also enjoyed the movie Sicko, and am sickened by the state of our healthcare system, but I certainly cannot find it in me to cheer on a further decline in those standards from what we have now, and that’s exactly what will happen with a meltdown. If America goes down, so too does the world…that’s how influential its presence has been for the past half century. I’m not saying that in a positive manner, but it’s silly to refute that it is now truly a global economy, and if the ringleader perishes, so do all of the circus animals. I find it sick that anyone could cheer and jeer at the awful suffering that will ensue if what they believe is happening..is actually happening. I’ll say it again. The people who will be hurt the most, not just in the U.S., but all over the world, will be the poor. Starvation rates will go through the roof. Chavez will be overthrown by his military when his oil revenues decline precipitously, and his constituents don’t get their stipends. And, finally, as Spyware mentioned, what do you really think is going to happen if the shit really hits the fan here in the USA. The Rednecks are going to make war on the Blacks, the Hispanics and the Liberals…and they’re going to have the weapons to do it. How could anyone cheer for such an outcome? It’s like cheering the Nazi’s on in their attempted extermination of the Jews. Anyway, like I said, I don’t think it’s as bad, or will be as bad…at least, not because of this crisis. It will get bad in the next twenty to thirty years because of Peak So Many Things and Global Warming, but Capitalism will, unfortunately, find a way to survive until the very bitter end, exploiting every crisis on the way to human extinction. Hell, Rememgeringinginggiap quoted Lenin about late stage Capitalism, and that was at least 80 years prior, and here we are, still, with Capitalism flourishing.

Posted by: Yuri Andropov | Oct 18 2008 20:54 utc | 16

If Keynes were alive today, he’d be quoted as saying, “in the long run, we’re all dead as long as we’ve got the Bushies in Power.”

Posted by: Cynthia | Oct 18 2008 21:05 utc | 18

Spyware,
It is my experience that every citizen of every nation believes theirs to be the best. I never intended to imply that it was a uniquely US thing. What I see to be different is the incredible military might that backs that belief up. What does it matter to the world if the citizens of Ghana believe their nation to be the best in the world? They can hardly force their views on others. The US on the other hand possesses an awesome nuclear arsenal along with very sophisticated killing machines and the mindset that it is perfectly normal to kill indescriminately. That view may have been shared by other previous colonial powers but it certainly does not make it acceptable to the US. We were all taught in school that those things were despicable and grew up believing the US would never do such things.
To see that as the norm and worse to be cheered by a great percentage of the populace is a fairly recent development. How can we regain our innocence?

Posted by: dan of steele | Oct 18 2008 21:25 utc | 20

Yuri Andropov @16
“ . . . but Capitalism will, unfortunately, find a way to survive until the very bitter end,
exploiting every crisis on the way to human extinction. Hell, Rememgeringinginggiap quoted Lenin about late stage Capitalism, and that was at least 80 years prior, and here we are, still, with Capitalism flourishing.
Andropov makes some very telling points, but let me add the following:
There is so much obscure nomenclature invested in any discussion of the economy that it is often more than difficult to tease out what it is the speaker is speaking about in any discussion there of and this blog is hardly an exception. Without adding to that dilemma let me simply opine that capitalism is not an evil that must be seen in centuries to come to have finally like Tyrannosaurus Rex to have outlive its usefulness and to have died out completely to the jubilation of all the newly arrived rodents scurrying about in the leafy undergrowth of the economy. In essence a return to a Puritan ethic where the evil of capitalism is consigned to the very hell it hath made of life upon this earth. Capitalism’s existence is a consequence of long and highly complex supply chains and until said chains can be made shorter and less complex it will remain as the most efficient system for the supply of goods and services within the social fabric generally. Just by comparison, in the medieval epoch you live a mile from the nearest market you hump your produce there on your back and barter it off to whomever will bargain with you. It’s the exchange of goods and/or services but it ain’t capitalism.

Posted by: Spyware | Oct 18 2008 22:00 utc | 22

Failed authoritarian movements needs scapegoats the way fecal coliform bacteria need a steady supply of raw sewage
billmon

Posted by: annie | Oct 18 2008 22:16 utc | 24

W: “When it’s History we will all be dead.”
Well, I’m not sure it was in an interview, but he’s on record having said years ago something close to: “I don’t know how history will judge us (probably meaning I don’t care as well), because History, in the long run we’ll all be dead”.
Annie: b, i don’t know what their obsession w/moon is lately.
Not sure “their” is necessary, could be “his/her” in fact.
the United States differs qualitatively from other developed nations, because of its national credo, historical evolution, or distinctive political and religious institutions.
Which is precisely what the British and the French believed about themselves in their periods of great colonial expansion
The Romens of the late Republic and early empire thought so as well, actually.
Yuri: Like Dan said, I bet that some here, just like me, would like to be wrong, sometimes, instead of seeing sh-t happening again and again as feared.
What’s ironical is that you actually had the explanation of what you seem to blame in your second post. The collapse is coming, there will be, on a global scale, blood, death, mayhem on a scale unseen since a very long time. No one will cheer this up for the sake of it, but we can’t escape it, it’s way too late, and the lower classes suffer now, and will suffer even more massively when all will go down – we know it, it’s not as if there was any way to avoid it. As far as I’m concerned, I’m of the opinion that the longer we go “business as usual” with an insane capitalism raping the planet and every possible natural resource, the worst the catastrophe will be, and the less we’ll have to rebuild a new world with after the collapse. So, if it’s indeed pleasant to live a not-too-awful Westerner life with West lifestyle and comfort, I’m aware that each passing year without a crash as the one we see – actually, without a far bigger collapse of the top dogs, global economy and the like – means that we’ll suffer even more when bad things will really begin – and each passing year without such a downfall means that more poor people will be wiped out and annihilated by the coming storm; and if we wait long enough and manage to let this system go on for a few more decades, when it’ll self-destruct, there won’t be anything left to make a new society, and we risk a real game over for the species. It’s not as if we have the choice, it’s not as if collapse, deaths on a massive scale, overall destruction are an option, or would happen just because I’m a sadist and want them to happen; they will, and I’m just aware of this.
Dan: To follow up on Spyware, Innocence is too risky in my opinion, not because of purity, but because it means ignorance. We’re slowly becoming aware, right now. What we need, I think, is full knowledge of the dark places of the human mind, and once we have knowledge and experience of it, we absolutely need to attain wisdom, which is the only thing that could make us avoid some future tragedies.

Posted by: CluelessJoe | Oct 18 2008 22:25 utc | 26

@25 anna missed
Interesting argument anna and probably well founded in historical fact but I don’t think the former “exceptionalism” as you state it stands a cat’s chance in hell in either the present or the foreseeable future America.

Posted by: Spyware | Oct 18 2008 22:32 utc | 28

@27 ralphieboy
“…and I thought that the Hebrews were God’s Chosen People…”
We are, only we’d like him to choose somebody else for a change.

Posted by: Spyware | Oct 18 2008 22:38 utc | 30

how is this neo freudian?

Posted by: annie | Oct 18 2008 22:48 utc | 32

US to host global finance summit

Standing alongside Mr Sarkozy and Mr Barroso, Mr Bush said it was “essential” to preserve the commitment to “free enterprise, free markets and free trade”.
Mr Sarkozy said the world must move beyond the “hateful practices” that prompted the current financial crisis.
He said that he and Mr Barroso came with a mandate from the 27 nations of the European Union, adding that the crisis could offer a “great opportunity” to redraft the rules of international finance.
He warned against the lure of protectionism and the temptations to individual nations to turn their backs on international systems, saying such a trend would lead to “catastrophe”.
Mr Barroso, the European Commission chief, said European nations had taken swift and concerted action to tackle the squeeze in the financial markets, but stronger and more effective global action was now required.
“We need a new global financial order,” Mr Barroso told reporters.

Posted by: annie | Oct 18 2008 22:54 utc | 34

Mazal tov. No more. Enough already. After midnight here in the U.K. and I’m beginning to feel it’s time for bed. Shalom everybody.

Posted by: Spyware | Oct 18 2008 23:10 utc | 36

please ignore the errant d. slip of the finger.

Posted by: sharon | Oct 18 2008 23:26 utc | 38

Though not his biggest fan, he paints a resonate picture of, ‘the long run’…

Here’s the thing about Americans. You can send their kids off by the thousands to get their balls blown off in foreign lands for no reason at all, saddle them with billions in debt year after congressional year while they spend their winters cheerfully watching game shows and football, pull the rug out from under their mortgages, and leave them living off their credit cards and their Wal-Mart salaries while you move their jobs to China and Bangalore.
And none of it matters, so long as you remember a few months before Election Day to offer them a two-bit caricature culled from some cutting-room-floor episode of Roseanne as part of your presidential ticket

. Matt Taibbi

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Oct 19 2008 4:01 utc | 40

estouxim, thank you very much for your thoughts. i read the summary you posted above earlier today and agree that they seem to have been “right on the money”. i also read a post on china today suggesting that it is crashing as well so it looks like geab got it right there too. if you follow the link i left above it should take you to the summary of the current bulletin which concludes that the us will default in summer of 2009 and the dollar may very well be replaced by another currency leaving the dollar we now know worth $.10.
can’t help but wonder if they have factored into the $300 subscription fee the possibility that some might pool their monies and share a subscription?

Posted by: sharon | Oct 19 2008 5:01 utc | 42

sharon, there is some weird stuff on your site. check out the pdf
Partner Info – An Inclusive World in which the West, Islam and the Rest have a stake, a Strategic Foresight Group report
i’m curious was you think of this report.

Posted by: annie | Oct 19 2008 6:30 utc | 44

annie, not sure where the doc is. is it on the leap2020 site or the economicpopulist site? if it’s on the economicpopulist site, that site is a compendium of economists’ points of view. some are more liberal than others. i like that the folks who created the site don’t discriminate re pov.
debs, i agree with you about china slowing down and that it could be for the better. there are so many ways to think about it and what it can mean for the u.s. – what will the american market, accustomed to acquiring cheap chinese stuff do, particularly when folks are holding onto their dollars more and finding they are worth less? i am not an economist and do not have the chops to sort it all out, but seeing china falter too points towards worldwide systemic collapse.
to be honest, the site that intrigues me most right now is the geab and the predictions they are making. the summary estouxim wrote about is report no. 18 and a link to it in english is on the site if anyone cares to read that bulletin and the most recent no. 28.

Posted by: sharon | Oct 19 2008 7:06 utc | 46

good to see you again sharon, thanks for the geab link. now I have something else to worry about. though I live in europe I am paid in US dollars….how is that going to work next year?
I would also like to ask some of the regulars here to go easy on the troll label. There has been some damn fine commentary from newcomers who got shouted down way too quickly. Even slothrop has an interesting thought now and then, if they truly only want to disrupt b can quite easily delete their comments but vaudois and yuri andropov do not qualify as trolls imho.
since it is b’s blog, why not let him make the call? His judgement has been very sound.
thanks

Posted by: dan of steele | Oct 19 2008 8:55 utc | 48

Some times it feels that the basis for the oft observed bourgeois resentment of the poor is the fact that when times get tough a sizeable chunk of those who should be suffering the most cause they seem to have the least, (from the point of view of a middle class person anyhow) aren’t sitting around all woe is me, they are still trying to enjoy life and make the best of a bad situation.
Until leftist or humanist political movements get back into the spirit of having fun while they plot the revolution, they will be doomed to be dilettante’s hangouts for the overeducated and underemployed.
I know we’ve spoken about this before but that is why may day was such an important date on the old lefties’ calendar. For some may day was about remembering the martyrs or whaling on past injustices, but for most ordinary working peeps it was the one holiday of the year where festivities could be revelled in without consideration of the hairy eyeball from a strait-laced god or the conservative captains of industry who had allowed the day off work.
In the long run if the peeps’ leadership doesn’t rediscover the fun side of being alive, they’ll be pissing in the wind for a very long time.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Oct 19 2008 9:18 utc | 50

What Debs said. Because its the culture wars, or better yet the war on culture, that the world is up against. And fear is anti-culture.

Posted by: anna missed | Oct 19 2008 9:44 utc | 52

sharon, I just managed to dl geab’s september bulletin (nr 27) and am trying to get nr 28. I can send you the ed2k links to the copies I found or, if you don’t know what an ed2k link is and have a big mailbox – each nr is about 4-5 MB – I can mail them to you. Bellow is the summary for 27, this time in english.
1- Perspective
Why LEAP/E2020 maintain their anticipation of a 1.75 EURUSD exchange rate at the end of 2008
Contrary to what the dollar’s staggering upturn against nearly all currencies since the beginning of July 2008 suggests, LEAP/E2020 sees no reason to modify its anticipation about the EURUSD exchange rate at the end of this year… (page 2)
2- Telescope
How the US Treasury department, with the complicity of Chinese authorities, manipulated the dollar-index during summer 2008 to avoid the nationalisation of Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac
A manipulation has indeed been orchestrated by the US Treasury department, by means of the Exchange Stabilization Fund (ESF), characterised by the sale of 6-billion worth of Euros during the third week of June2008… (page 7)
Why the manipulation is failing and how it is now contributing to accelerate the rupture of the dollar system
As end result of the operation, in less than eight weeks, the US find themselves with an even greater debt because of the real cost of the nationalisation of Freddy Mac et Fanny Mae (probably thousands of billions of USD, instead of the 200-billions Hank Paulson claimed)… (page 13)
How the British pound and economy are being sacrificed in the process
As part of this rupture, and accelerated by this summer’s manipulation of the dollar rate, the Sterling pound is currently disappearing from the very exclusive club of reserve currencies… (page 15)
Operational advice and strategic recommendations
The LEAP/E2020 team wishes here to recapitulate a series of operational advice and strategic recommendations for the months to come, in the field of currencies, commodities and energy, stock markets, real estate, gold (and silver), banks and inflation… (page 16)
3- Focus
US presidential election 2008: The winner is already programmed
The examination of seven decisive electoral factors ranging from the configuration of the US presidential campaign, to the history of the “putting into presidential orbit” of both candidates and to the state of malfunctioning of the US electoral machinery, has led LEAP/E2020 to estimate that there was no significant uncertainty left regarding the name of the next US president who will be elected in November 2008… (page 18)
4- The GlobalEurometre
Results & Analyses
A large majority of Europeans (64 percent) estimate that today’s Russia is not a power of the same kind as
yesterday’s USSR… (page 25)

Posted by: estouxim | Oct 19 2008 15:56 utc | 54

estouxim, i very much appreciate your generous offer. you are indeed correct, i do not know what and ed2k link is – how did you guess? – but my email addy is sharon dot lynch at verizon dot net. thank you also for passing on the summary to no. 27 in english. if you have a sec, i am wondering – what is an ed2k link?
dan of steele, sorry to add another thing to the list to worry about. hope sarah is doing well in new york and enjoying her graduate program. i believe there is a sublet available in my building for what will most likely be very, very reasonable rent. by now she is most likely settled into her apartment in lic, but if she is curious, please tell her to get in touch and i will contact my friend who seems to have moved to texas to find out if her subletter has left for good.

Posted by: sharon | Oct 19 2008 19:11 utc | 56