Oops - Paulson Bailout Stopped in House - Updated
HR-3997, the Paulson bailout, just failed to pass the House.
via CSPAN life stream
Dems - 140 Yea, 95 Nay
Reps - 65 Yea, 133 Nay, 1 Not Voting
Total - 205 Yea, 228 Nay, 1 Not Voting
Paulson, we have a problem ...
adding on the fly:
Where does it go from here? I have no idea but would bet that everything financial will now go down hard - that includes oil and even gold - the system is deleveraging.
Roubini wrote shortly before the vote took place that the Paulson bill wouldn't matter much anyway - the markets say the 'Mother of All Bailouts' is the wrong bill.
It is obvious that the current financial crisis is becoming more severe in spite of the Treasury rescue plan (or maybe because of it as this plan it totally flawed). The severe strains in financial markets (money markets, credit markets, stock markets, CDS and derivative markets) are becoming more severe rather than less severe ...
...
The next step of this panic could become the mother of all bank runs, i.e. a run on the trillion dollar plus of the cross border short-term interbank liabilities of the US banking and financial system as foreign banks as starting to worry about the safety of their liquid exposures to US financial institutions; such a silent cross border bank run has already started as foreign banks are worried about the solvency of US banks and are starting to reduce their exposure. And if this run accelerates - as it may now - a total meltdown of the US financial system could occur. We are thus now in a generalized panic mode and back to the risk of a systemic meltdown of the entire financial system. And US and foreign policy authorities seem to be clueless about what needs to be done next. Maybe they should today start with a coordinated 100 bps reduction in policy rates in all the major economies in the world to show that they are starting to seriously recognize and address this rapidly worsening financial crisis.
I don't agree on the panic policy rate reduction - it would only reduce trust in the central banks' abilities without having any meaningful economic relevance right now. Otherwise, Roubini is correct.
Last thought for now: 9/29 will be a marked day for historians - maybe even as big (bigger?) than 9/11. Osama Bin Laden's goal to bankrupt the U.S. was achieved without him doing anything remarkable. The U.S. did it on its own.
An end of an era. As said in earlier comments, the end of the quarter tomorrow will be devastating for lots of financial entities. They will have to report real numbers instead of made up stuff because the Paulson bill, which gave the authority to fake balance sheets by 'mark to fantasy', was rejected. The Paulson bill could probably have helped to make the dive smoother.
Many hedge funds will be slaughtered as redemptions will come in at an unprecedented scale. All of the capital they have and which will now be redrawn is highly leveraged in risky bets on all kind of financial 'products'. They will have to sell, sell and sell everything.
With those leveraged bets unwinding, the post WWII credit super cycle may end. The natural result would be deflation and a Greater Depression.
I am not sure that's going to happen, but if it does, the experience will be quite extreme for all of us.
Posted by b on September 29, 2008 at 17:58 UTC | Permalink
I sent my congressperson the following letter by fax. There were millions of us.
___________________________
To put it bluntly: NO CASH FOR TRASH!
I'm against giving money to bankers for their toxic waste. This plan was devised by, and is for the benefit of, the same people who got us into this situation.
There are other alternatives. Congress needs to hold hearings and listen to economists who saw this coming – for example, Nouriel Roubini, Robert Kuttner, and Dean Baker. It may take a couple of weeks longer, but this is a time to do what is NECESSARY, not what is convenient.
The fear-based stampede that the Bush Gang is trying to provoke is a giant rip-off. Although it is merely robbery, instead of mass murder (wars of choice against nations that never harmed us), it is yet another crime. I hope to live long enough to see fair trials for the lot of them.
Posted by: mistah charley, ph.d. | Sep 29 2008 18:23 utc | 2
This had to happen, and not for "ideological" reasons--for material reasons.
As I mentioned a few posts ago, this bill posed unacceptable threats to smaller, local bankers throughout the country--bankers who fund their congressmen, and to whom their congressmen listen.
I oversimplify because the details are completely beyond me. But the big picture? No, not at all.
To put it another way: Senator Shelby and Congressman Bachus (representing my part of the country) never make mistakes that might cost them their office.
Posted by: alabama | Sep 29 2008 18:26 utc | 3
mistah charley, ph.d. ,
Thank you, I hope you don't mind. I copied your letter as contents for two emails I just sent to Boxer and Obama.
Posted by: Iron Butterfly | Sep 29 2008 18:41 utc | 4
just wanna see the whole f***ing PONZI scheme just f***ing implode.
and then i wanna see the rank and file amerikan sheeple finally, finally wake the funk up and start tearing the wall street bastards limb from limb. then they head to washington dc and take matters into their own hands.
and then reshape this country into something to be proud of once again.
Posted by: On My Way To Dien Bien Phu | Sep 29 2008 18:51 utc | 5
I'd hate to see the entire American economy collapse, but if that's what it takes to bring down the American war machine then it's a good thing. That's all that really counts, at least to me.
Posted by: mike | Sep 29 2008 19:08 utc | 6
Comment from another board I visit, and if there was any real justice it would be so...
I say pass anything that allows the government to profit from the buyout and mandates some congressional oversight. There's no time to do the bill right, it's too complex and too massive to slap together even in a week.So we need to elect Obama. After watching the debates, I'm convinced that McCain is arrogant and incompetent enough to fuck this up catastrophically. If you don't want to vote for Obama because he's black or muslim, here's a deal. Vote for him anyway, and you can just direct all your racist hate at me by proxy.
The day after the inauguration, convene a panel to completely rewrite the whole goddamn thing from start to finish, with gruesome limits on CEO bonuses, mandating market transparency, new accounting rules, etc. This will take months. Get the people who disagree the most, get them in a room, and set them arguing. Publish the arguments in Congressional reporter or federal register so we can get everyone who's anyone on the record. Addd to the bill a provision that if the govt loses money on these assets, a tax on banks and their CEO's will be levied until the govt is made whole.
Simultaneously with convening this panel, launch SEC, IRS, and FBI investigations of every single trader or lawyer who ever touched a CDO, credit default swap, or mortgage derivative. Investigate them as if they were al qaeda. Prohibit any travel outside of the U.S. for all of these people. Audit the current and former CEO, CFO and board member of every one of the thirty largest banks from 2002 to the present, including an audit of their family members. I'm convinced that most of these people had no fucking idea what they were trading or whether the thing they were trading was real or fraudulent.
All trials should be broadcast on television, and all documents posted to the internet.
it terrifies me that this isn't the norm...
Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 29 2008 19:24 utc | 7
"Last thought for now: 29/11 will be a marked day for historians - maybe even as big (bigger?) as 9/11."
I super hate to nit-pick, but 9/29 was meant here? Americans snicker at the English for driving on the "wrong side of the road" -- but are non-conscious to the fact that the way they number dates is ass-backwards.
Umn, now that I think about it, I guess Americans are non-conscious about a lot of things -- not that they are the only people with a disorder of this sort.
Posted by: Chuck Cliff | Sep 29 2008 19:25 utc | 8
Being as the house.gov
website is slammed... here's another
I'm really glad McCain rushed back to DC to make sure something would get done.
Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 29 2008 19:36 utc | 9
Excerpts:
What is an 'Economic Emergency':
For the most pertinent example, a statute recognizes and provides for the possibility, if not the likelihood, of a recurrence of what happened in 1929-1933:
[D]uring such [financial] emergency period as the President * * * by proclamation may prescribe, no member bank of the Federal reserve system shall transact any banking business except to such extent and subject to such regulations, limitations and restrictions as may be prescribed by the Secretary of the Treasury, with the approval of the President.
Title 12, United States Code, Section 95(a).
As this statute proves, the political and economic Establishment is prepared for banking and currency crises so severe that a national financial dictatorship will be necessary to deal with them.
The Federal Reserve System is a confidence game, not only domestically, but on a global scale as well, because of the status of Federal Reserve Notes as the premier world reserve currency and preferred medium of exchange in international trade. This status, however, is becoming increasingly tenuous--as even a cursory study of today's financial media will disclose.
Far more dangerous than these possibilities is the call by radical intellectuals in the Islamic world for more than a billion Muslims to reject all forms of Western fiat currency, and adopt instead the Islamic gold dinar and silver dirhem coins as their exclusive media of exchange, both perforce of their religious duties under Islam and as a means to strike at the Great Satan's greatest vulnerability.
Such an eventuality could presage the beginning of the end, not only for irredeemable Federal Reserve Notes, but also for all fiat currencies, and even for fractional-reserve central banking (which is prohibited under Islamic law).
Posted by: Benjamin Martin | Sep 29 2008 19:41 utc | 10
@Chuck @ 8 I super hate to nit-pick, but 9/29 was meant here? Americans snicker at the English for driving on the "wrong side of the road" -- but are non-conscious to the fact that the way they number dates is ass-backwards.
sorry - my sole (as a foreigner) mistake - corrected that to 9/29 - which I meant anyway.
Benjamin Martin: Would be interesting, but then it would doom the whole lot of Gulf monarchies, because it's quite obvious that their own wealth isn't based on an existing pile of actual gold and paper-money, but on fiat currency and fractional-reserve.
Uncle -7: In my opinion, the whole system must undergo a process of trial, prosecution, jailtime and reprogramming be similar to the post-1945 dezanification of Germany - on a global scale, this time, not limited to a handful of countries. The whole economic apparatus is discredited and must now pay for its century-long crimes. And we must make sure that not any one of these scum manage to slip through.
Posted by: CluelessJoe | Sep 29 2008 19:56 utc | 12
@BM - Far more dangerous than these possibilities is the call by radical intellectuals in the Islamic world for more than a billion Muslims to reject all forms of Western fiat currency, and adopt instead the Islamic gold dinar and silver dirhem coins as their exclusive media of exchange, both perforce of their religious duties under Islam and as a means to strike at the Great Satan's greatest vulnerability.
That's extreme race baiting or religion baiting you are doing there. Lunatic.
The folks in such business are still quite rational actors. The most U.S. debt is held in Chinese and Japanese accounts, none of them Islamic in any way and none of the opposed to central banking.
The Saudis and any other Islamic state entity aren't either by the way.
The Gold Dinar is talked about a lot for at least 8 years - it may one day appear but will not change much of the business. The Saudi and other oil billionaires are quite flexible in where to put their wealth. There isn't anything principled or religious in their actions.
"You shall not steal" is the 8th Christian commandment - how many on Wall Street have followed that one.
Iron Butterfly - You (and everyone) are quite welcome to copy the language. May I just suggest that I've seen an argument, which I find convincing, that by far the best way to convey an opinion to a Congressperson (unless you know them personally and they are willing to talk to you on the phone)is by FAX (not email, or message box on their web page, and certainly not by snailmail) -
http://tinyurl.com/46xpnf
Posted by: mistah charley, ph.d. | Sep 29 2008 20:15 utc | 14
what is happenning is a quickly unravelling catastrophe & one from which the empire will not survive. & b you are quite correct - it didn't taken any utside intervention for that to happen - those united states performed a self-mate all by themselves
it is going to get extreme but it has been so even in the west for significant numbers of the population
i'm with mike tho - if it also brings down the war machine then it has brought light into the world & the imagined threats to democracy are neither threatening or constitute a present menace.
the menace to america is america
& the threats that do exist in this world are largely created directly from washington & its agencies - whether it is radical islam or the bankruptcy of nations
the coming fires of pakistan & egypt have been directed from meeting rooms of those who rule from the roll of dollars. they imagined themselves as masters of the universe but in fact they are ants. their lives less meaningless than those of ants
from some straussian script they saw themselves as great actors on the world stage - except they have only been able to perform a vulgar burlesque which they have performed without any talent whatsoever - & it is the people who have had to do the slapstick & the pratfalls
these are going to be hard times but hard times is not a stranger to us at all
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 29 2008 20:23 utc | 15
If only Paulson would have promised to resign if the bill failed...
A little good news- NY Sun to stop publishing:
"The 6 1/2-year-old paper, known for a conservative, pro-Israel editorial slant and distinguished arts and culture coverage, had never posted a profit.
It had been estimated to be losing about $1 million a month, and a souring economy and rising printing and distribution costs caused those losses to accelerate.
Its backers had initially included now imprisoned Canadian press baron Conrad Black. The most recent angel investor was venture capitalist Tom Tisch. " -NY Post
Posted by: biklett | Sep 29 2008 20:25 utc | 16
First time in my life I ever have to thank a Rethug for anything with their voting down this odious measure. I was denied effective Congressional representation when NY-26 was gerrymandered for R-scumbag Tom Reynolds. I emailed Hillary(D-Likud) and Schumer (D_Likud) last week urging a no vote. I called their offices and the upstate Democratic representatives, Higgins and Slaughter's, offices this morning again urging an no vote. One office lackey seemed to listen to me as I explained to him what was up. I see that Higgins and Slaughter voted yeah along with Reynolds. What craven shitbirds.
Buzz Meeks
Posted by: Buzz Meeks | Sep 29 2008 20:30 utc | 17
Too bad our elected officials fell for Bush's fear mongering by passing a Package of Shock & Awe to Iraq. But at least they failed to fall for this fear-based rhetoric of his by killing the no-shadowy-banker-left-behind Bill!
And I can't think of a more apropos moment than now to savor these words by Abraham Lincoln:
"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."
Posted by: Cynthia | Sep 29 2008 20:31 utc | 18
Well I hope you all are right that this is the beginning of the end. There is an alternative outcome which may yet come to pass.
The bill is resurrected and put through the house in more at a more 'measured' (ie opportunistic timeliness) pace. Then every fat assed, shiny suited combed over professional liar sticks their special piece of paper to it. A bridge here, a bomb factory there, a prayer progam for pregnant prostitutes or two then with every possible snout firmly in the trough the bill passes unanimously.
As long as some of the selfish pricks can say no, most will because otherwise their 'opponent' this November will gain undue advantage.
The bit that has reduced this entire exercise in petty politicking to the level of farce is that, the house is taking a break claiming that 'jewish holidays' reconsider this for some time.
So even though there is alleged to be a terminal emergency of the most dire kind, a superstition held by approx 1.9% of the population will delay resolution. Jewish readers may be angered by that but considering as far as I can tell a higher percentage of amerikans (approx 2.4%)subscribe to the islamic superstitions, how would it be if an allegedly important matter was delayed so that congressmen/women could be with their families for Ramadan? Or Hindu holidays; anyone who has been to Bali can attest that Hindus have made the saying every day is a holiday, into fact. Good on them but the shiny suits would never go for it so why go for the jewish superstition?
A quick diversion - because amerika like so many other 'western' societies attaches xtian superstitions to the well deserved holiday time together that families get, there seems to be a move to mainstream other favoured superstitions by celebrating their important dates as holy days as well. Only if you're middle class or better - the poor rarely get much benefit ffrrom the xtian festivals much less any others.
I would have thought the way through this would have been to select 20 days across the year that provide regular breaks of 2 to 4 days and attach some amerikan or humanist tradition, make them the holidays and get rid of the xtian ones. Otherwise the result is what we see here. Certain superstitions favoured over others in a completely arbitrary way that leaves the holiday ripe for abuse by greedy pols seeking time to auction their vote.
From my rather remote perspective it becomes interesting to try and guess whether the bill will come back in similar form to the way it left, just with all of the pork chops stuck to it, or whether they will pretend that the bail out is a dead duck and skin this skunk differently but just the same.
I'm gonna try not to think about this farce for a while because there are much more important issues afoot deserving attention. The first is that the Pakistan military claimed on the BBC last night that they had killed over 1000 'terrorists' in the last week. This in the tribal areas where a crew was taken through towns which have been devastated by house to house fighting. Is it true? (I hope not) Or is it just a piece of spin to get USuk et al offa Pakistan's back and outta their country.
The other saga which I have been keeping an eye on since last week when it first happened, is the now ready for public consumption story of the the pirates. Real pirates for a change not teenagers standing up to the greed of the publishing combines.
The pirates who grabbed the boat load of mainly russian expensive hi tech weapons platforms on a Ukrainian boat paid for with amerikan dollars.
There is an unsigned post in the other active thread, but there are a lot of issues raised by this affair. issues that will embarrass a number of 'great powers;' as they used to be called.
Originally the wire story said the ship was carrying 80 russian tanks now reduced to 33 tanks. New tanks for Kenya. Is that true? If amerika and russia and the Ukraine aren't friends anymore what's the deal on this african co-operation? Or are they just pretending to be angry with each other? Most importantly why does Kenya need tanks?
Is it true they will be used in Somalia to to murder the citizens resisting foreign occupation? If it is then the whole affair is ripe with karmic justice since it is the anarchic breakdown of society caused by the destruction of the Islamic Courts Union infrastructure, that has allowed 'pirates' to flourish on the Somali coast.
What other weapons are on board? What assholes imagine that sending a boatload of mass murdering machines to africa is aid? how fucking dare whitey send more weapons to a continent whose problem is a shortage of food, education and healthcare.
The story may just be one of those two par flash-in-the-pan yarns quickly covered over by intelligence organisations or maybe it could put egg on a lotta dials.
Posted by: Debs is dead | Sep 29 2008 20:38 utc | 19
Here's am opportunity for Obama to really show his strips. Can he see this moment as pivotal. That historical forces have positioned him to break free of his constraints. Here is the moment he can tell his supporters that drastic "contrary-action" is needed. Contrary that is to the accepted norm to date ($700 billion dollar bailout). We will see if he's got the right stuff. The ball is in his court. All McCain and the republicans are doing is pointing fingers. Where is the huge "Obama on the Economy" speech? Why is he silent?
Cheers,
Posted by: Iron Butterfly | Sep 29 2008 22:07 utc | 20
We have the money - Asia Times Online :: Middle East News, Iraq, Iran current affairs
There has been much moaning, air-sucking and outrage about the US$700 billion that the US government is throwing away on rich New York bankers who have been ripping us off for the past few years and then letting greed drive their businesses into a variety of ditches. In fact, we dole out similar amounts of money every year in the form of payoffs to the armed services, the military-industrial complex, and powerful senators and representatives allied with the Pentagon.
On Wednesday, September 24, right in the middle of the fight over billions of taxpayer dollars slated to bail out Wall Street, the House of Representatives passed a $612 billion defense authorization bill for 2009 without a murmur of public protest or any meaningful press comment at all. (The New York Times gave the matter only three short paragraphs buried in a story about another appropriations measure.)
Posted by: Fran | Sep 29 2008 23:31 utc | 21
b,
@BM - Far more dangerous than these possibilities is the call by radical intellectuals in the Islamic world for more than a billion Muslims to reject all forms of Western fiat currency, and adopt instead the Islamic gold dinar and silver dirhem coins as their exclusive media of exchange, both perforce of their religious duties under Islam and as a means to strike at the Great Satan's greatest vulnerability.
That's extreme race baiting or religion baiting you are doing there. Lunatic.
My apologies your opinion considers the excerpt I posted as race baiting or religion baiting.
I guess being of the John Maher school of thought and personal experience on religious and ethnic issues, with ultra white Afrikaner family and friends, and a Black Panther husband and friends, not to mention a Muslim former Mujahadin friend; you could say I have close friends who are all radical religious and radical ethnically proud. I doubt any of them would share your opinion that I was race-baiting or religious baiting.
I imagine the only people who would find themselves 'baited' would be those who are psychologically, emotionally and spiritually insecure in their religious or ethnic convictions.
However you are entitled to your opinion that I am, as you say, a 'lunatic'. Interesting how you managed to come to such a conclusion, without much further enquiry. Anyway, no big deal; if it makes you happy to consider me a 'lunatic'; I'll consider it my good deed for the day! ;-)
PS: If Interested: My school of thought is that you cannot resolve any problem, within the conventional bandaids to braintumour politically correct paradigm, whether the problem is financial, spiritual, ethnic or whatever. The Politically Correct Thought Police are of the following varieties: (1) those who use PC thought policing, because they DO NOT WANT THE REAL ISSUES ADDRESSED AND EXPOSED (whether it is the Fed. Reserve, 9/11 or AIDS as a black depopulation virus, or whatever); and (2) those who are aware they are being manipulated by the former, but are too afraid to be politically incorrect, so as to get to the heart of issues, for resolution; and (3) those who ain't aware they are being manipulated by the former, nor of the latters cowardice..; the automatonic zombie sheeple.
Posted by: Benjamin Martin | Sep 29 2008 23:41 utc | 22
BM/b suppress people and their identity becomes all the more important to them so that in the end they come to suppress each other and off course try to silence all dissident voices while scapegoats are sacrificed (scapegoat = a goat upon whose head are symbolically placed the sins of the people after which he is sent into the wilderness in the biblical ceremony for Yom Kippur, Webster's 9th NCD)
currency (runs and circulates) can become anything, something in circulation as a medium of exchange
thus I welcome the islamic gold dinar as long as I don't have to invoke the common satan
(imagery and the expression of it is culturally and politically bound and is to be translated even if it is written in English/American/English 2nd language)
Posted by: constant | Sep 30 2008 1:28 utc | 23
With All Eyes on the Bailout, House Passes Trillion-Dollar Defense Bill
What's that? You want health care, education, affordable housing, 21st-century infrastructure?
Sorry, we've got other priorities.
THE WARFARE STATE
Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 30 2008 1:28 utc | 24
debs @19 - re pirate story - might want to check out the current open thread for several days of running commentary on that very story
Posted by: b real | Sep 30 2008 1:58 utc | 25
@Alabama
looks like Bachus (my rep too) did vote aye for this travesty.
I once wrote the worthless tool about the Iraq war. you can imagine the response.
Posted by: ran | Sep 30 2008 2:29 utc | 26
At the risk of being deontological...lol
YOUR CASH AINT NOTHING BUT TRASH
Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 30 2008 2:39 utc | 27
Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008
Uh-oh, there's that'er Def.con 1 "E" word again!
Financial Stability Oversight Board
Uh-oh, you know for sure some SOB's on that joint!
Conflicts of interest
Ahh,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha. Hank Paulson in chief, with his GS:AIG plays!
Special Inspector General for the Troubled Asset Relief Program
"You want a loan for how much?!"
HOPE for Homeowners amendments
Hyperbole ... of ... the ... Century!
Study on mark-to-market accounting
The 111th Congress Special Finance Committee is "moving forward" on this!
SEC. 131. LIMITATION OF AUTHORITY.
{See Sec. 135.}
SEC. 135. PRESERVATION OF AUTHORITY.
With the exception of section 131, nothing in this Act
may be construed to limit the authority of the Secretary
or the Board under any other provision of law.
SEC. 136. EXPANSION OF AUTHORITY.
Under this authority, the Secretary may from time to time seek
additional funding in any amount by submitting a request to the
Board for special Senate finance committee approval, in closed-
session hearings to minimize market gaming. These additional
funds may be applied by the Secretary to past troubled assets,
present troubled assets or as yet to become troubled assets,
of any type or kind as the Secretary and the Fed may determine.
SEC. 137. SUNSET TERMINATION OF AUTHORITY.
With the exception of nuclear war, the cataclysmic
inversion of the earth's poles, or the Rapture and
2nd Coming of Christ, nothing shall sunset this Act.
.
.
.
SEC. 666. PENALTIES FOR OPPOSING THE ACT.
Opposition to the Act shall be considered a terrorist
act under the Uniting and Strengthening America by
Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and
Obstruct Terrorism (USA PATRIOT ACT) Act of 2001.
When the Congress of the United States shall oppose
this Act in defiance of the Executive, the Secretary
may bring on whatever level of market crash the
Secretary and his masters desire.
--
This is, after all, just business.
We won, you lost. Now get over it!
Posted by: Geomo Rphology | Sep 30 2008 3:57 utc | 28
Treasury Dept Conference Call Suggest Collusion
Treasury Department Conference Call Suggests Collusion With Brokerages
Written by Gene Gaudette
Monday, 29 September 2008
Courtesy of Digby, we learn of a conference call held late Sunday night between Treasury Department officials and some of the most powerful players in the financial services industry about the House bailout bill that they assumed was about to be passed – a call that they never imagined would be leaked to the public. More below the fold...
As Naked Capitalism's Yves Smith notes:This is simply scandalous. To have a group of interested parties get a privileged briefing by government officials on a matter of keen public interest flies in the face of what a democracy is supposed to be about. The proper method would either be a published FAQ on the Treasury website or a briefing with the media included. But why should I be surprised? Favoritism has been a staple of the Bush Administration.
And this is indeed favoritism. Look at the major points touched upon during the call:As Smith notes, "The exec comp provisions sound like a joke, They DO NOT affect existing contracts, they affect only contracts entered into during the two years of the authority of this program and then affect only golden parachutes."
Naked Capitalism contributor Lune notes, "[A]ll their doomsday scenarios about Black Monday were B.S. They screamed the check had to be written by Monday, but now they're saying they actually have a few weeks before they need to cash it."
Lune: "Ridiculously overpriced asset sales can be hidden in the details."
Lune: Treasury admitted they "need[ed] to sweeten the pot to encourage banks to come 'voluntarily.'"
Another commenter fires off more sales points:
"Draft bill is very positive for both markets and our companies"
Much explanation of Executive Comp
Residential and commercial mortgages. But very importantly, it can be any asset.
Excited about ability to guarantee assets in exchange for a guarantee fee.
Sought as much authority and as much flexibility as possible.
Eligibility: as broad participation by institutions as possible. The more participation, the more effective it will be. Want banks of all sizes or any financial institution that has a meaningful presence in the US to be interested and enthusiastic.
Purpose is to help private sector clean up their balance sheets.
Highest priority: make sure it works, will attract companies to participate. Warrants and exec comp. were very highly negotiated.Bottom line: it looks as if Treasury had gotten the big investment banks a very sweet deal. In fact, it smacks of outright collusion. So what if the bailout bill got creamed in the House today? The call was trumpeting a tectonic shift toward socialism for the investor class – a de facto symptom of emerging fascism.
It's high time for Congress to get off their butts, drag Paulson and his cronies in front of Congress, and explain this call.
This is, after all, just business.
Indeed...
Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 30 2008 5:08 utc | 29
ran@26: that's beyond strange, and thanks for the note. I have some homework to do (and I'm out of the country).
Posted by: alabama | Sep 30 2008 8:13 utc | 30
@ Bernjamin Martin
I realise that it has become de rigeur amongst the closet racist types to say that they weren't being racist, but the accuser was being too PC, as if the repetition of that phrase makes your generalisation about "radical intellectuals in the Islamic world for more than a billion Muslims to reject all forms of Western fiat currency" without naming the intellectuals or defining what you mean by radical, (after all one man's radical is another's conservative) or offering any evidence at all that your collection of hackneyed cliches rolled up into an unsupported slander is anything other than a variation on the old 'scare the locals about evil n....rs' or to encourage hatred. About the same as coming in here and saying "old jewish men want to torture our children" no evidence, but it sounds good and would always get a pogrom off the ground.
Pretty damn racist from where normal humans sit.
Posted by: Debs is dead | Sep 30 2008 8:15 utc | 31
with ultra white Afrikaner family and friends, and a Black Panther husband and friends, not to mention a Muslim former Mujahadin friend; you could say I have close friends who are all radical religious and radical ethnically proud. I doubt any of them would share your opinion that I was race-baiting or religious baiting.
sorry, internet claims of associates don't do squat for me.
I imagine the only people who would find themselves 'baited' would be those who are psychologically, emotionally and spiritually insecure in their religious or ethnic convictions.
sorry, ad hominem attacks are not a defense.
here's your defense, more ad hominem. basically you criticize b's right to critcize you based on a PC attack
. The Politically Correct Thought Police are of the following varieties:
(1) those who use PC thought policing, because they DO NOT WANT THE REAL ISSUES ADDRESSED AND EXPOSED
so you get to be a racist baiter because you allege your assertions are 'the real issues' ie (" possibilities is the call by radical intellectuals in the Islamic world for more than a billion Muslims to reject all forms of Western fiat currency")
(2) those who are aware they are being manipulated by the former, but are too afraid to be politically incorrect, so as to get to the heart of issues, for resolution; and
(3) those who ain't aware they are being manipulated by the former, nor of the latters cowardice..; the automatonic zombie sheeple.
ah, did you address the point of the criticism? no, just speculation why anyone wouldn't persue your high falluten charges you assert are 'real issues', with NO supporting evidence. you completely ignored b's rebuttal. did not address it period, nada zilch beyond this..
Interesting how you managed to come to such a conclusion, without much further enquiry.
from who? you? is there some deeper implication that further enquiry would produce ANY evidence of this 'possibility'.
Far more dangerous than these possibilities is the call by radical intellectuals in the christianista world (james dobson etc) world for more than a billion christians to reject all forms of Western fiat currency, and adopt instead gold bars as their exclusive media of exchange, both perforce of their religious duties under biblical law and as a means to strike at the Great Satan's greatest vulnerability.
Biblical GoldKing James Bible Investments was established as a place for family, friends, acquaintances and other Christians to be informed about world market conditions and as a place to preserve their capital by investing in the only form of real money, gold and silver.
Biblical records show that gold and silver are the first and oldest form of money, the only money that has not failed, and a source of notable value for over 5000 years! Can you name one fiat currency that has lasted through even a few centuries let alone a few millennia like gold and silver? We think not!
Biblical reasons why real money and wealth is gold and silver
* The Hebrew word for money is “keceph”, which is translated to mean “silver.”
* The King James Bible mentions gold 417 times, silver 320 times, and money, which is mentioned 140 times, refers to physical silver and gold. Not once does it mention a paper currency.
* Gold and silver are mentioned all through the bible as real wealth, even through the end of Revelation.
* From Genesis to Revelation, gold and silver are the only God-ordained monetary assets that will maintain their purchasing power until the day of the Lord’s wrath.
now, if someone suggests my NOT considering this as far more dangerous (than say....giving 700 billion dollars to the same bankers that got us into this mess, who last i heard were not for the most part of the islamic persuasion but in fact overly represented by another ethnic grouping here in the US) shall i say to them, as a defense..?
bwaaahhhhhh.. the thought police are out to stifle me.
benjamin, enjoy your good deed for the day! ;-) w/ your alleged black panther husband. but please don't expect this sort of wacko unsupported islam baiting crap to fly here. and if you decide to respond further, perhaps you could address b's rebuttal in post #13.
constantly making an ass of himself @23,
BM/b suppress people and their identity becomes all the more important to them so that in the end they come to suppress each other and off course try to silence all dissident voices while scapegoats are sacrificed (scapegoat = a goat upon whose head are symbolically placed the sins of the people after which he is sent into the wilderness in the biblical ceremony for Yom Kippur, Webster's 9th NCD)
then why do you come here? go away you trolls
Posted by: annie | Sep 30 2008 18:07 utc | 32
The only racist I have witnessed around here is you, Annie. Are you sure your name isn't Sarah? There's a Sarah in every crowd, and this crowd is no different.
Posted by: Barney's Frank | Sep 30 2008 22:22 utc | 33
Frozen Desire: an Inquiry into the Meaning of Money (1997)
James Buchan
Synopsis
This text argues that money has brought the world to a condition of unprecedented instability. In the book, the author examines money from a psychological perspective - how men and women feel about money, about its acquisition, possession, loss and absence. Ranging across literature, finance, painting, business and philosophy, he shows how money has colonized the world in both its forms, as coin, banknote or electronic book entry, as well as an idea of happiness in the minds of men and women.
Frozen Desire: The Meaning of Money is in many ways a brilliant book, filled with horror at money's brutal capacity to rend society asunder. "This yellow slave," Buchan quotes Timon of Athens, "will knit and break religions; bless th'accurs'd;/Make the hoar leprosy ador'd; place thieves,/And give them title, knee, and approbation/With senators on the bench." Money is promiscuous -- "it will just as happily serve a tyranny as guarantee liberty" -- and immoral. Economics is a pseudoscience which has degraded into futile and pettifogging scholasticism, as a result of which, says Buchan, "the world is reduced to a scorching slum, its women to whores, its men to murderers."
Characterizing money as ``incarnate desire'' (in the sense that takes individual wishes and transmits them to the wider world), he compares the dichotomous teachings of Jesus with those of Muslim prophets, who viewed the religious and socioeconomic spheres as an indivisible whole. Buchan goes on to assess the varied implications of coinage, the just-price construct of medieval theologians, the invention of double-entry bookkeeping by Fra Luca Pacioli, Europe's lust for precious metals in the Age of Discovery, and the emergence of bank notes (which undermined the sovereignty of monarchs). Covered as well are the fiscal discipline a gold standard imposes on spendthrift governments, the sundry roles played by money in Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice, the latter-day ascendancy of creditors (including junk-bond king Michael Milken) over borrowers, and capital as the sine qua non of belligerencies ranging from revolutions through wars of conquest.
Posted by: constant | Sep 30 2008 23:14 utc | 34
http://www.amazon.com/Economy-Literature-Marc-Shell/dp/0801846943>This is another great resource on the weirdness of money.
Posted by: slothrop | Oct 1 2008 0:05 utc | 35
annie
i don't know why - but you appear to be a lightning rod for trolls on their occasion to visit our home here
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 1 2008 0:13 utc | 36
Yves Smith of nakedcapitalism.com led the crusade against TARP, now her blog is offline, redirects to Google.
Bad. Very bad.
Posted by: Wolf DeVoon | Oct 1 2008 6:37 utc | 37
Wolf, it is still there
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com
Posted by: dan of steele | Oct 1 2008 8:12 utc | 38
i sent you an email r'giap. think delphi method, they work in teams, gov trolls.
Posted by: annie | Oct 1 2008 18:22 utc | 39
The comments to this entry are closed.
Mike Whitney at Counterpunch already has analysis up.
Posted by: catlady | Sep 29 2008 18:22 utc | 1