Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 12, 2008
Election Prediction

Pat Lang analyzes the election race and concludes:

John McCain will be the 44th president of the United States. His need to feel the equal of his "fathers" will be assuaged for at least a few months. Sarah Palin is likely to succeed him as president. He is elderly, fragile, physically much abused in life, choleric, and seemingly in decline. His belligerence grows. He is under the influence of the Jacobin neocons who know no limits to the possibility of the fulfillment of their dreams.  Who can say where that influence will take us?

Governor Palin is yet unreadable. […] She has a great deal of "catching up" to do. People spend their whole lives studying the subject matter that she must master if she is not to be a menace to the world. She needs to have someone explain the consequences implict in the acronym SIOP. Perhaps she can "catch up." 

I think his prediction is correct. Obama plays fair with McCain. That is nice, but will lose him the election. Why is he not really trying to win?

Comments

Maybe his job was to knock Clinton out, and take the dive for the NeoCons. In all sincerity, you’d have to be insane to want the presidency these next four years…or eight….or twelve….and so on. Things aren’t going to get better. It’s down hill from here on out. Prosperity was built on cheap energy in abundant supply. That’s gone now, and so is the way of life that accompanied it. There Will Be Blood.

Posted by: Artilect | Sep 12 2008 18:25 utc | 1

I have been bashed forever for saying McCain would win ever since he was candidate. (Not here, ppl are polite, but in real life..) And now that Palin is on the ticket, that opinion gets more traction, goes mainstream.
I considered Palin a mistake and a handicap. I’m still divided… Heh.
I guess it is just that, for the guy who will win, events sort of stream along and reinforce that position. With a bit of help from the focus groups, the Media massaging, packaging it all. And perhaps other actors.
Ex: the Georgia debacle favors McC. It revives the Cold War, or the New War against Russia, the needed manipulation / domination of Europe, vitality of NATO, yadda, yadda, global strategy of tension, those likable Poles, etc. etc. More menaces about! The US needs strong defense, military, experienced, etc.
Obama is not the point man here. The evil Commies (Russkies, Viets, err, Cuba, all that, they have green claws, Chavez! etc. myths and symbols..) – McC is dah man!
For Pakistan, much the same. The Taliban (poor Pashtun peasants who dislike being bombed and are the only ones who will or can take up Kalash’s) are a danger that has to fought ferociously.
The menace to the American way of life (consumption, cars, etc) in the shape of foreclosures, gas prices, rising food prices, family struggles, etc. requires a strong defense of core values, a need for a figure that can be seen as down homey and overcomes all of it by social ascension – Palin.

Posted by: Tangerine | Sep 12 2008 18:37 utc | 2

Obama is trying to win.
Obama was (sic) a neophyte. He gloried in his own glory, and concentrated on winning over his most immediate rival, Hillary, in a kind of parochial stand off. Hill had her eye on the big picture; and stood a better chance of beating McC. She positioned herself for that from the start. Obama had to first kill her off.
Obama was up against the Establishment, the Dynasties, racism, etc. and he cared only for fighting the battles as they came along.
In this way Democrat divisions were created in a narcissistic hot-house atmosphere, as if the Dem. nomination was be-all and end-all of the matter. As usual, the dems. shot themselves in the foot, or appeared to do so. Obama played to the top level, the metro types, neglecting the base, calculated the delegates, manipulated, etc. – that was the only way he could win against Hill. Not Diebold, just tearing up paper, intimidating the ppl who were socially lower than him or his team..
.
Gore did try but stayed low key, non combative, respectable. (See where he went further.) Kerry was a place holder and never, I think, believed he could win. He did his duty for the system.

Posted by: Tangerine | Sep 12 2008 19:03 utc | 3

i’ve read portions of the transcript from the palin interview. that woman is beyond clueless (other than making it clear that ‘energy is a foundation of national security’). yet there are hundreds of comments (that i’ve bothered to look thru) on the internet by individuals who think she did just fine, who have no useful basis for comprehending why her performance was so poor, and who find her responses appropriate. so very sad.
i’m not into predicting anything, but my take is this – if that ticket does get the nod come november, anything short of insurrection will be insufficient. unfortunately, nothing indicates that the country is capable of such. so very sad.

Posted by: b real | Sep 12 2008 19:07 utc | 4

Can’t judge the impact of this, but the site seems to be getting traction.
Women against Sarah Palin, link

Posted by: Tangerine | Sep 12 2008 19:16 utc | 5

The polls are oversampling repubzigheilicans. All is not lost, the degree to which voters want to boot the RNC is not being gauged by polls, purposefully. I do agree that Obama isn’t highlighting differences enough, but then again he could have been mean last night and added to the lipstick comments, made himself look scary. He also should have agreed to more debates.
Somebody needs to ask McCain if he is elected if it is possible there will be a draft. Bush had to answer the question, and I have yet to hear anyone ask it this time.

Posted by: aumana | Sep 12 2008 19:31 utc | 6

Tangerine, that website seems like a gimmick. Is there any way to determine its veracity?

Posted by: Artilect | Sep 12 2008 19:33 utc | 7

@ b real
An armed insurrection would need to be something on the scale of Kristal Nacht with National Guardsmen standing around with their hands in their pockets to have any impact. Anything less would be put down with a ruthless military brutality much as last seen in the Rape of Nanking.

Posted by: Spyware | Sep 12 2008 19:38 utc | 8

There were big Dem pols and big money behind Obama from the very beginning–that’s where the seed money came from. The question still is, for me, why? What was to be gained from running Obasma so early in his career (other than having the luxury of not having a real record), when the Dems could have had a Prez Clinton for, say, two terms, then a Prez Obama for two terms?
What was to be gained by running so early? Did Axelrod fear there would not be another good time for a Dem to run and win? Was he influenced by Rove doing so well with the barely known, other than his name, George Bush? Rove did create the candidate, the Compassionate Conservative with the Humble Foreign Policy who would Return Honor to the Oval Office image–and won with a boob. Axelrod probably figured he could run with an intelligent guy with no record and win as well or better, especially in a Dem favoring year?
But, again, there were all those Big Dems behind Obama and Obama NOW. What was really going on?
It’s a hard rain’s a gonna fall….

Posted by: jawbone | Sep 12 2008 19:42 utc | 9

BTW, karma may be a bitch, as in Obama did not play fair with Clinton….

Posted by: jawbone | Sep 12 2008 19:43 utc | 10

while my own situation is dark – i find the events passing within the empire considerably darker. we have wondered for years here at the moon how further the political culture could be degraded – & again we are witness to extraordinary excess in that defilement – we are seeing the bare bones of barbrism in the trembling lips of ms palin & the senile pauses of mccain
the world will suffer more but in this instance i think inside the belly of the beast it will becom intolerable – because that degradation will of course have very practical consequences. on the economic level & at the jurisprudential – i think you have seen nothing yet. they always talk of the muslims wanting to go back to the middle ages while the reality is that america has already made its primal impulses clear – that that is where it is heading
the o’reilly’s & the hannity’s will get the america they want but i think the greater majority of america – will plunge into a darkness from which there will be little escape

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 12 2008 19:45 utc | 11

Tangerine, that website seems like a gimmick. Is there any way to determine its veracity?
fyi, i received 2 chain emails from women i know (neither particularly political), each w/100’s of email addresses attached.

Hi, everyone. If you want your views of Sarah Palin
heard, please read on, and respond to the address provided
further on in this e-mail.

Friends, compatriots, fellow-lamenters
(insert bla bla bla)
We want to clarify that we are not against Sarah Palin as a
woman, a
mother, a governor of Alaska or, for that matter, a
parent of a pregnant teenager, but
solely as a devastating choice for Vice President. Ms.
Palin’s political views are in every way a slap in
the face to the accomplishments that our mothers and
grandmothers and
great-grandmothers so fiercely fought for, and that
we’ve so
demonstrably benefited from.
First and foremost, Ms. Palin does not represent us. She
does not
demonstrate or uphold our interests as American women. It
is presumed
that the inclusion of a woman on the Republican ticket
could win over
women voters. We want to disagree, publicly.
Therefore, we invite you to reply here with a short,
succinct message
about why you, as a woman living in this country, do not
support this
candidate as second-in-command for our nation.
Please include your name (last initial is fine), age, and
place of residence.
We will post your responses on a blog called “Women
Against Sarah
Palin,” which we intend to publicize as widely as
possible. Please
send us your reply at your earliest convenience?the
greater the volume
of responses we receive, the stronger our message will be.
Thank you for your time and action.
VIVA!
Sincerely,
Quinn Latimer and Lyra Kilston
New York , NY
womensaynopalin@gmail.com
**PLEASE FORWARD WIDELY! If you send this to 20 women in
the next
hour
, you could be blessed with a country that takes your
concerns
seriously. Stranger things have happened.

meanwhile there was no link to the blog, so i googled it and there were no comments yet. naturally i was suspicious.
on topic, everyday and everyway i prepare myself for the inevitability of a mcCain presidency. the last time around i couldn’t leave my house for 4 months i was so depressed and i am not going down that road again. sometimes i think the only way pout of this mess is for it to get so bad here (and face it, this is NOT bad compared to the people we are pulverizing) people are forced to wake up. i would love to be pleseantly surprised bu i am not holding my breath. all this anticipation for what? there’s no free will here, no democracy, just sheep led to slaughter.
i am saving acorns in my attic.
i think palin is perfect for many americans, they won’t even notice she is clueless about goriegn policy because they don’t know enough to know the difference. she is ‘just like one of them’, like bush. then there is diebold.
i am assuming obama is not going to bore us into oblivion over the next 2 months, they better as hell have something up their sleeve so we can at least watch a bloody fight about it.

Posted by: annie | Sep 12 2008 20:09 utc | 12

“I saw a newborn baby with wild wolves all around it
I saw a highway of diamonds with nobody on it,
I saw a black branch with blood that kept drippin’,
I saw a room full of men with their hammers a-bleedin’,
I saw a white ladder all covered with water,
I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken,
I saw guns and sharp swords in the hands of young children,
And it’s a hard, and it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard,
And it’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall.” bob dylan

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 12 2008 20:27 utc | 13

This has been on my mind lately:
Earth, receive an honoured guest:
William Yeats is laid to rest.
Let the Irish vessel lie
Emptied of its poetry.
In the nightmare of the dark
All the dogs of Europe bark,
And the living nations wait,
Each sequestered in its hate;
Intellectual disgrace
Stares from every human face,
And the seas of pity lie
Locked and frozen in each eye.
Follow, poet, follow right
To the bottom of the night,
With your unconstraining voice
Still persuade us to rejoice;
With the farming of a verse
Make a vineyard of the curse,
Sing of human unsuccess
In a rapture of distress;
In the deserts of the heart
Let the healing fountain start,
In the prison of his days
Teach the free man how to praise.
(WH Auden, ‘In Praise of WB Yeats,’ stanza III)
Intellectual disgrace/stares from every human face. That was 1939.

Posted by: Tantalus | Sep 12 2008 20:34 utc | 14

“Well, the last thing I remember before I stripped and kneeled
Was that trainload of fools bogged down in a magnetic field.
A gypsy with a broken flag and a flashing ring
Said, “Son, this ain’t a dream no more, it’s the real thing.”
bob dylan

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 12 2008 20:38 utc | 15

She does seem to have fans, unfortunately:
Sarah Palin fever boosts wig sales as women go for her ‘look’ – Telegraph

Sarah Palin fever has prompted a surge in sales of the shoes, spectacles and even wigs needed for her ‘look’.

he former beauty queen and prospective Republican vice-president drew accusations that she had put on glasses and tied back her hair simply so she would be taken seriously at the party’s national convention.

But, whatever the motives, her style has proved enormously popular with American women. Sales of the accessories she wears have shot up, while hairstylists and wig sellers say they have been inundated with requests from women wanting to look like her.

Amid heated internet speculation over the brand of lipstick she wore for her convention speech, some fashion experts have predicted that Mrs Palin’s fashion sense could even rival the influence exerted by Jacqueline Kennedy’s famous pill box hats in the 1960s.

After receiving a slew of requests, WigSalon.com, a US wig supplier, has been promoting a range of Palin-style wigs and hair pieces.

Posted by: Fran | Sep 12 2008 20:44 utc | 16

I woke up on the roadside, daydreamin bout the way things sometimes are
Visions of your chestnut mare shoot through my head and are makin me see stars.
You hurt the ones I love the most and cover up the truth with lies.
One day you’ll be in the ditch, flies buzzin’ around your eyes,
Blood on your saddle.
Idiot wind, blowing through the flowers on your tomb,
Blowing through the curtains in your room.
Idiot wind, blowing every time you move your teeth,
You’re an idiot, babe.
Its a wonder that you still know how to breathe.

Dylan

Posted by: Tantalus | Sep 12 2008 20:54 utc | 17

Colonel Lang shows his imperial stripes again.
His lifelong, Regular Army devotion to Cold War thinking has him evaluate everything in terms of the United States versus Them. Ideally, Them means Russia, but really Them is anyone who doesn’t welcome America’s boundless, inchoate desire to dry hump every other nation on this round planet, and bomb the ones that resist.
For lo, they have no right to resist, since our intentions are the very best. This time. Honest they are.
That’s the very business the Colonel is in. He and a few other retired spooks show American businessmen how to get in there and stick it to the nation of _________________ most efficiently. ‘Tain’t personal. Just bidness. American bidness.
Patrick offers three threadbare opinions as to why McCain must surely win, and in the same breath sees him dead and gone, with Sarah the Cypher in the sacred seat atop the greatest nation ever, proving herself eminently ‘coachable’ as she proceeds to put the Russkies in their place.
His glee at this prospect positively reeks of Buck Turgidson’s salty brow. No doubt Colonel Lang sees himself prominent among the worthies who will be coaching Madame President.
Lang’s opinions as to why McCain must win are hollow, and wrong.
1) Hillary would bring along as many negative demographics as positives. A lukewarm campaigner for Obama, she is already planning a run for President in 2012, and she and Bill are fighting to keep some control of the Democratic Party. Besides, in purely practical terms, there is no way she and Obama could ever share the White House. It would be a house divided. Such houses fall.
2) He brings up ‘quiet racism’ against uppity black men who talk real smart and somehow get a hold of more money and education than us white boys — c’mon, that has been a central part of Obama’s Electoral College calculations for years. It’s not something new and potent because Colonel Lang just thought of it. Yes, it is quite real, but it is also well measured and accounted for by the Obama campaign. Bringing this up as if it is a sudden show stopper is the logical equivalent of saying, “Ya know, them tires on your new car are going to wear out on you, brother. Nuthin’ you can do about it, either. Sixty, seventy thousand miles, and it’s over. I’m just sayin, it’s hopeless . . .” A slick bit of concern trolling on Patrick’s part.
3) Sarah Cypher attracting the votes of church-attendin’ 1950-ish apron-wearin’ well-meanin’ Plain Jane Moms by the millions is a real public response, but so is those same Moms facing their husbands and themselves out of work, the price of food, gas, clothes for the kids, mortgage, car, and college savings.
The economy has turned to shit, and it’s getting worse by the day. These same Moms are thinking to themselves that electing a well-meanin’ Church Lady who knows zip about addressing these daily financial terrors is beyond dumb. It’s too retarded even for trailer trash to swallow.
This election will hinge on the economy, not on new wars, old surges, personalities, identity politics, and not on Patrick Lang’s purblind desires for a new Cold War with Russia to make the world feel all right again. People will enter the voting booths in eight weeks with Lehman Brothers long gone, with WaMu and Wachovia and Wells Fargo sunk or sinking, and with maybe a few other national banks failed.
This means there will more than likely be a taxpayer bailout of the FDIC before Election Day, so that no American voters lose their savings accounts. That will scare the shit out the voting public, and neither John nor Sarah will have anything intelligent to offer.
The Colonel, as always, sees an America that can continue screwing over the whole planet, meaning well the whole time. He wants feel good people in the White House, people who will feel good about dictating economic surrender to other countries — or else. Patrick can identify with well meaning people like that, and get behind them. OO-rah. Go team, go.
In a nutshell, Lang is of the old school that insists on inflicting America’s domestic policies on the world, and calling it foreign policy. It worked for years — it will work forever.
If the Colonel should ever stray from the cloistered world of think tanks and consulting companies sucking on the public teat in the shadow of Washington, DC’s alphabet agencies, he will discover a very different country than the one he thinks is out here.

Posted by: Antifa | Sep 12 2008 20:55 utc | 18

antifa
you say clearly what i only whisper of these ‘refined’ barbarians like lang & bacevich

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 12 2008 21:16 utc | 19

b-real 4: Frankly, as far as I’m concerned, if McCain/Palin wins, insurrection won’t even be enough. A quarter of the whole country should be turned into soil fertilizer before the country can effectively be put on the right tracks again.
I prefer not to think too much of a McCain win, because that would definitely mean the end of the USA. Not the end of the US empire – that’s already a given, it’s obvious, and even Obama won’t be able to change this, at best he could manage the transition without much bloodshed, like Gorby did with USSR (and unlike Germany and France, both having been totally unable to let go their place of powerhouse of Europe without continental or even worldwide wars). No, a McCain/Palin presidency would spell the end of the USA as a nation (not necessrily under their term as P/VP, but still in the very near future); the self-destructive tendencies already at work would be massively increased, and these loons might well go for suicidal moves – as in nukes involved, and then more nukes, to a wide scale. The US will be left a broken, divided and ruined shell, possibly a radioactive one, and one can only ponder if the whole world will look just like this or if the failing and doomed US will take just a (quite big probably) part of it with it in the abyss.
Yeah, that sounds gloomy, but given how “maverick warmonger” McCain can be at times, given how Palin is a religious lunatic, with a solid chance of succeeding McCain 2-3 years from now, there are very substantial and solid odds that them winning could mean the end of mankind.

Posted by: CluelessJoe | Sep 12 2008 21:38 utc | 20

solid chance of succeeding McCain 2-3 years from now
or 6 months

Posted by: annie | Sep 12 2008 21:56 utc | 21

antifa: well put!
the amerikan economy is sinking fast in a pit of quicksand surrounded by wallstreet cobras. i ran across this article trying to figure out what’s behind the strange dollar rally, and the conclusion is ominous.
it’s going to be a long, cold winter. many who mistakingly assumed they were privileged insiders will find themselves upside down. whoever is cursed with the white house come January will be compelled to open new fronts in a last ditch effort to keep us from total collapse.

Posted by: Lizard | Sep 12 2008 22:56 utc | 22

why is Obama not playing hard ball to win,
sorry for being rude,
but the US are fucked. Who would want to win the mess, if not those that have created and need the mess to survive.
screwed, fucked, bankrupted, out of cash, fighting and dying for the glorious leader with no way out, laughing stock of the world,
the most powerful nation on earth, sorry mate, no more
s

Posted by: sabine | Sep 12 2008 23:14 utc | 23

Once Upon a Time…
powerofnarrative.blogspot.com
“Honestly, I feel as if this election is intentionally, malevolently designed to destroy everyone’s few remaining functioning brain cells. Leaving aside, just for the moment, that the Democrats and Republicans fundamentally agree on every issue of importance, and that they are determined to preserve and expand the identical goals — an authoritarian-corporatist state at home and endless violent interventions abroad — just on the level of political strategy, the following is obliteratingly stupid. Note the last paragraph in particular:
Democratic jitters about the US presidential race have spread to Capitol Hill, …
some straight talking
cheerio!

Posted by: constant | Sep 12 2008 23:17 utc | 24

OK folks. I just watched the Palin interview. I did not think anyone could be more ignorant and inept than Bush himself. You’re writing off Obama far too soon. The Palin bounce is built on dust. There already is buyers remorse. And Barak will hit back without climbing into the RNC sewer with her. He’s a candidate with problems, not a terminal disease. And we’ll have the clusterfuck, bumbling, self defeating, hand wringing Democrats in power again. I can’t wait for the spineless incompetence and petty corruption to replace the well oiled, militant, globally corrupt Republican administration. It will be a breath of fresh, stale air.

Posted by: diogenes | Sep 13 2008 1:53 utc | 25

Personality traits, and off the cuff statements, may decide elections, but they don’t decide national policy. McCain and Palin’s bellicosity and Obama’s suave diplomacy will add up to about the same foreign policy over the next four years.
The military and traditional elites, along with the real world, have stymied Bush and the neocon’s wild adventures, so why do we think they will change their minds because McCain wins?
It’s different with domestic policy. Any more conservative justices and we wont dig out for decades.

Posted by: plato’s cave | Sep 13 2008 1:56 utc | 26

I believe Obama will win, and it won’t make that much of a difference, but he will be more competent at running things.

Posted by: dancewater | Sep 13 2008 3:22 utc | 27

If you read Pat’s bio and study his black ops consulting business, Lang’s website is pure Rovian Troglodyte. Mentioning his name or linking his SST_Warfare-For-Welfare is giving aid to the enemy. Pandering to his rightist propaganda is letting yourself get cornholed by that spew. After the Selections, that enemy will scalp your hair, pull your gold fillings, cut off your nutsack, and dump you into general population with the rest of the tax slaves!! Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!?
This reinforces my pet theory that b is special forces operating out of Ramstein, trolling for left-wing sysop domain names, after which FBI does their search and seizure without warrant on your liberal white ass. Not the first time that an agent provocateur has trolled, like Zionazi’s do, posing as radical Muslims, look at what Mossad was able to do with a handful of disgruntled Egyptians and Saudis in 2001!

Posted by: Political Brain | Sep 13 2008 3:30 utc | 28

diogenes, what do you expect from politicians other than spineless incompetence and corruption? Only scumbags get into politics anyway, look at the crop currently serving. A decent man or woman wouldn’t possibly get involved in a cesspool like that. We need to completely clean house, and I mean completely, lifetime appointed judges and all. Look at how an elected official lives with all the graft and gratuities. They have no conception of how a common taxpayer lives. They’re too busy thieving to even read the fucking bills they vote for. The police are crooked, the local pols are either ineffective or bought off, and the national pols are angry because they can’t steal with both hands instead of just one. Our government of the people, by the people and for the people is a joke. I feel our founding fathers would expect us to rise up and overthrow the fraud that has become America. The people are too fat, lazy and ignorant for that though. Too much MSG, too much Aspartame, too much Fox “News” and too little work. It would be enough to drive me to drink, if I were a drinking man.

Posted by: JimT | Sep 13 2008 3:45 utc | 29

@Political Brain
Nice turd bomb you dropped there, of course b could be sysop (sic) hell, over half of us here could be, including your truly…
But so what, think that will stop anything? One conclusion I came to whilst watching the double feature horror show of the DNC/RNC was when the tax slave police were popping concussion grenades on the protesters, it wasn’t to get them to disperse, no, it was to get them to panic. Therefore giving them the justification to, well you know where I going w/that thought.
problem is, as I have mentioned before, When dealing w/ spy’s…The agent knows who he is spying on, but he never knows who
is spying on him. In spying-and-hiding transactions, worry leads to more worry
and suspicion leads to more suspicion. The very act of participating, however unwillingly, in the secret police game—even as victim, or citizen being monitored—will eventually produce all the classic symptoms of clinical paranoia.
Wilson calls it, Games without end:

…the peculiar nature of the game…makes it impossible for [participants] to stop the game once it is under way. Such situations
we label games without end.
— Watzlawick, Beavin, Jackson,
Pragmatics of Human Communication
SUSPICION LEADS TO MORE SUSPICION
In brief, once a government has n orders of secret police spying on each other, all are potentially suspect, and to be safe, a secret police of order n plus 1 must be created. And so on,forever.
or
THE BURDEN OF OMNISCIENCE
or: Why you can’t reach the Court
or the Castle in Kafka’s allegories
Every secret police agency must be monitored by an elite corps or secret-police-of-the-second-order. This is because
(a) infiltration of the secret police, for purposes of subversion, will always be a prime goal of both internal subversives and hostile foreign powers and (b) secret police agencies acquire fantastic capacities to blackmail and intimidate others, in and out of government. Stalin executed three chiefs of the secret police in a row because of this danger. As Nixon so wistfully said in a
Watergate transcript, Well, Hoover performed. He would have fought. That was the point. He would have defied a few people. He would have
scared them to death. He had a file on everybody. [Italics added.]
Thus, those who employ secret police agencies must monitor them, to be sure they are not acquiring too much power. Here a sinister infinite regress enters the game. Any elite second order police must be, also, subject to infiltration, or to acquiring “too much power” in the opinion of its masters. And so it, too, must be monitored, by a secret-police-of-the-third-order.
SUSPICION LEADS TO MORE SUSPICION
In brief, once a government has n orders of secret police spying on each other, all are potentially suspect, and to be safe, secret police of order n plus 1 must be created. And so on,
forever.
Thus games without end
Thus, the USSR after 62 years of Marxist secret police games reached the point where the alpha males were terrified of painters and poets.
In spying-and-hiding transactions, worry leads to more worry and suspicion leads to more suspicion. The very act of participating,however unwillingly, in the secret police game–even as victim, or citizen being monitored–will eventually produce all the classic symptoms of clinical paranoia.
The government, on discovering that growing numbers of citizens regard it with fear and loathing, will increase the size and powers of the secret police, to protect itself. The infinite regress again appears.
The only alternative was suggested sarcastically by playwright Bertolt Brecht (who was hounded by U.S. secret police as a communist and by East German secret police, later, as not sufficiently communist). “If the government doesn’t trust the
people,” Brecht asked innocently, “why doesn’t it dissolve them and elect a new people?” No way has yet been invented to elect a new people, so the government will instead spy on the existing people with increased vigor.
Every secret police organization is engaged in both the collection of information and the production of misinformation, euphemistically
called “disinformation.” That is, you score points in the secret police game both by hoarding signals (information units)–hiding facts from competitors–and by foisting false
signals (fake information units) on the other players. This creates the situation I call Optimum SNAFU, in which every player has rational (not neurotic) reasons for suspecting that each and all
may be trying to deceive him, gull him, con him, dupe him and generally misinform him. As Henry Kissinger is alleged to have said, anybody in Washington who isn’t paranoid must be crazy.
Such is the neuro-sociological “logic” of a Disinformation Matrix. It is, as Paul Watzlawik has demonstrated, the logic of schizophrenia.

the philosophical banter of a madman, but what if we are all mad?
myth baking or meme dreaming?…lol

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 13 2008 4:58 utc | 30

John McCain studies a wingless fly, crawling slowly across the studio floor while those far above his paygrade, argue over what to do with that skanke he dragged back home.

Posted by: Turd Blossom | Sep 13 2008 5:32 utc | 31

I generally have nothing to add here except to say “interesting, I agree” and so keep quiet. However in the above discussion of US decline, perhaps more attention should be paid to its decline in education, science and engineering. I suspect that such will impact on US power very directly and fairly quickly.
This article, which refers to emigration of US physicists in passing may be of interest to some here – from the Globe & Mail in Canada:
Link to Globe & Mail story on Supercollider
The largest contributor, at 20 per cent of the budget, has been Germany. Britain comes next, at 17 per cent, and France 14 per cent. The United States has contributed $531-million, only 5 per cent of the tab, and only five times more than Bulgaria. Canada has contributed $31-million and about 150 scientists.
More than 1,200 U.S. scientists worked on the project, and there is a sense that a great many of them will stay here. The American scientists were loath to comment on the record lest they jeopardize their grants, but most felt strongly that the United States is no longer a place to practise massive-scale experiments.
Some U.S. science officials have begun to speak openly of the threat posed by Europe’s funding lead.

Posted by: Owl | Sep 13 2008 5:36 utc | 32

Interesting.
I commented on Patrick Lang’s (moderated) blog in the same vein as above, and within moments received back from His Eminence a blank email with a string of attached files.
Hotmail flagged them all as either phishing or virus-infected files.
Apparently the Colonel has a script kiddie on staff — and exercise the royal right to spread digital venom unto anyone who calls him a farce to his face.
Spooks. The rules don’t apply when you believe in yourself.

Posted by: Antifa | Sep 13 2008 6:54 utc | 33

Antifa, I’m trying hard to stay out of this, but I’d like to see any evidence that would support your summation:
“In a nutshell, Lang is of the old school that insists on inflicting America’s domestic policies on the world, and calling it foreign policy. It worked for years — it will work forever.”
He has for years, pointed out the futility of such efforts, especially in the ME.

Posted by: anna missed | Sep 13 2008 7:50 utc | 34

Specifically on Russia and Georgia and SO:
Whatever ones opinion may be on this subject, the truth is that self determination as a principle matters not if it can not be defended by force of arms. History makes that very clear everywhere, including the United States. Force Majeure, force majeure…
Georgian rule is unwelcome in South Ossetia and Abkhazia. The majority of people in those regions are not Georgians. If it were not for Russia, these places would eventually have been subdued by force majeure. Would that have been better?
Are the two great powers really going to carry their quarrel over this to the brink of war? Are we really going to do that? pl

Posted by: anna missed | Sep 13 2008 8:12 utc | 35

LINK to above Pat Lang (should have been quoted) above.

Posted by: anna missed | Sep 13 2008 8:15 utc | 36

@Uncle
You should see the new Coen Bros. film, Burn After Reading. It is a riot of the absurd. Maybe you’ve see it already. Americans especially should feel its existential angst. But it will probably just confirm your suspicion that we are caught in a crushing pincier movement, between morons and spooks.

Posted by: Copeland | Sep 13 2008 11:34 utc | 37

Patrick Lang’s quote above gives his position on the South Ossetia debacle, confirming his standing disapproval of the neoconservative way of warmongering as foreign policy. Their use of force first, second, and last, followed by wondering what went wrong, followed by yet another attempt to create a new reality. That is no way to do business, and business is what America is all about, in Pat’s world view.
He views neoconservatives as dangerous amateurs on the world stage, and incompetents at domestic governance as well. Their ideological fixations are perfectly capable of provoking — or launching — a nuclear exchange with Russia, to no one’s profit.
If you wish confirmation of the Colonel’s old school views, write to him to say you feel that the goal of our war in Iraq was, and is, to get control of their oil. He hates hearing that, even though no one with two brain cells has any doubts about it. He hates it because it doesn’t fit his ideology.
Write to him, and blame oil for Iraq. He’ll call you a fool, dismiss you from any further consideration, and ban you from his moderated blog. He has never offered any of his “oil nut” readers a replacement theory or even outline as to why we invaded Iraq, nor does he like to discuss the pipeline we offered to pay the Taliban “a carpet of gold” for the right to build, back in the summer of 2001.
He publicly as well as privately dismisses and insults anyone who offers oil as a war goal, and instead hints broadly that our reasons for making war over there in the Middle East is to stop the rising menace of world domination by fascist Muslims. He sometimes hints that only people in the know — like him — are competent to judge just why Iraq was so necessary, but that’s all you’ll get (besides your pink slip) from the THE ATHENAEUM.
His world view, and indeed the founding principle of his consulting business, is Original Gangsta — pre-Clinton even. It is America as the top economy and top military rolled all into one package, wandering the world making offers smaller nations cannot refuse. Offering special access and insights and information to American businesses, letting them have their way in developing countries. We make the deals, we take the profits, and everyone else has the right to grow bananas. Peacefully. Or else.
He wants a return to how we did things under Poppy Bush. That worked well. It will work again, if we can just set up another Cold War of some kind. If some Muslims with box cutters is all we’ve got to scare the American taxpayers with, then we’ll go with that.
I’m sure the Colonel will welcome a proper Cold War with Russia when the time comes, but he is rightly afraid of letting the neocons be the authors of that new venture. They’ll use force first, second, and last, and that was never what the Cold War was for. It was for keeping oligarchs atop the Soviet Union and United States, and freezing the world in place. Mutually assured status quo.
When some sensible people can start the new standoff with Russia, the Colonel will be on board to advise them.

Posted by: Antifa | Sep 13 2008 11:43 utc | 38

I don’t agree Obama is not “trying to win.” There’s plenty re: Obama I question & wonder about, but that’s not one of ’em.
Out media has gone well beyond echoing repub/conservative meems of last 2 elections. What I’m seeing is saturation coverage here. Reports in our “paper of record” has selectively edited, replaced objective fact, omitted others… there is not even pretense towards objective reporting. It’s been this way here for a while, but this time around it’s much worse… as I said, it looks to me like saturation propoganda.
That’s hard to fight.
It’s beyond bizarre. Looking at WP’s FP this morning, Krauthhammer joins the cacophony of conservative voices give cover/excuse to Palin’s unfamiliarity with and bull-shitting through response to “Bush Doctrine” question. And everything else is just like that.
And in the midst of all this, McCain’s newly appointed transition team guru more or less sends a shiver through me… an unabashed, in your face message that it’s not just “McSame”, it BushEcon taken to the next level.
I think things are even worse than I thought they were.

Posted by: jdmckay | Sep 13 2008 12:01 utc | 39

anna missed
we rarely argue with one another – but on this i must say – that what antifa has written is the correct analysis. men like lang & bacevich – do not have an argument with the essentially anhilatory nature of the empire. they simply want it done, as of old – ‘with decency’
their agument os not fundamentally with empire – but with the cretinisation of its administration & because they understand exactly the way thier military is being dismantled by clowns who not only have no long term vision but who clearly do not understand the present
i don’t expect them to be anti imperialists – they are deeply conservative after all – even pc roberts – but they are very allusive with the fact that they want only one superposer that dominbates the worl – mostly by the threat & use of military force
in their way they are every bit as hateful as the neocon savages
the ‘other’ is completely absent form their concerns. they know that the empire is being fatally weakend by fools & that is all that they are concerned about

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 13 2008 13:24 utc | 40

@ wile i understand why you & b reference him – having tasted a little of u s power – i find general argument of a better administration of armed force, as morally offensive & morally bankrupt
he has never cared about the deaths of the other but for his own boys & the institutions of armed force that he believes need to be used more wisely to guard the empire & its interests
clearly, i don’t think the good colonel would have any problem – with his boys doing wetwork in latin america, pakistan, or africa
antifa merely points out the moral corruption of the conservative commentariat/experts/lobbyists/think tanks
they are all beasts in my book

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 13 2008 13:34 utc | 41

A russian view on why McCain-Palin possible election will be good for Russia:
Venik

Posted by: geopoliticus | Sep 13 2008 13:49 utc | 42

Artilect, I wondered too, partly why I posted it (women against sarah palin), I can’t judge (see annie further down…)
jawbone, the Dems ‘ran’ so early because they have so many internal divisions and are always mired in controversy…and it was important to ‘get’ and agree on a *winner*. It was a mistake, a predictable one.
The Dems’ problem, as the Socialist or ‘left’ problem in EU countries, is that their electorate is anti-right, or anti-establishment/conservative, for all kinds of reasons.
The precious, vegetarian, smartly suited, animal-loving green with two doctorates has little in common with black-single-mom part-time waitress or uppity gay metro who hates Bush principally because of one issue or…fill in more.
Socialists and Dems (being very broad here) will support and end to vivisection (that is a no brainer, but they never enforce it), workers in meat factories, the proletariat, or rather honest workers in today’s terms, don’t cha know, researchers who need rats (to create new drugs etc.), extra controls and tax on meat, thus killing off part of the industry, as well as subsidies for farmers or ‘nice peasants’ etc. And more!
They try to square the circle, don’t manage and can’t convince. (Swiss example.)
The Repubs, with a simpler, tribal, ancient kind of belonging mechanisms, only need a few basic principles, talking points, it doesn’t even matter much which ones, they need not be ‘true’ or ‘sensible’, to conserve adherence. Although ‘conservative’ values are involved in a vague way, which is why Bush managed to co-opt the Xtians on Rove’s advice, it is about class values, about empty principles, about snobbery and disdain (the real ingroupy thing..), about white supremacy (under the radar), etc.
As: the high-school group that melds and excludes others on crazed criteria, ticks, way of walking, color of clothing, scores on math tests, shoes, etc. and develops its own oh-so-special idiotic rituals, feeding itself with its own exclusivity, nothing else. Who gets to take over the school once the teachers leave?
Devout Muslims don’t carry on in this way (not the ones I have met or read). Nor do terrorists – these are only interested in one cause and never reject ordinary ppl.
rgiap, it is goebellish gibberish..what is going to happen when McC wins?
antifa, great on Lang.

Posted by: Tangerine | Sep 13 2008 16:28 utc | 43

Though I may be, as we say, “in denial,” I do not believe that the election of these bad Republicans would be an apocalypse, and for the following reasons: (1.) they have no credibilty, (2.) no one respects or fears them for their artful ways (because their incompetence precludes this), and (3.) as with the Republican team, so too with the USA in the eyes of the world.
What people do fear are the random and volatile impulses of an incompetent leadership–the military adventure in Iraq being only the most recent of these. To borrow a phrase of LBJ’s, the USA has become “a pitiful helpless giant”, and a rather unpredictable giant at that.
And so people at home and abroad will work around the government, frustrate it, undermine it, and intimidate it in every way, the most effective being the one that everyone fears the most–someone not accepting the President’s phone calls, or letting them go unanswered, unreturned.
Something of the sort has happened already. Just look at Rice, down on her knees before Qadhaffi, doing all she can to cut a deal, any deal (no doubt it has to do with Russian oil, and with our felt needs to reduce the Russian share of the European energy market–but I’m in over my head here, and eagerly await bernard’s analysis).
Qadhaffi? The guy we bombed and isolated and treated like a pariah? We need this guy for an ally? A desperate move that would never occur if the USA had real clout.
It will be fun to see how the stronger, truly concerned citizens of the USA cope with their problems as they unfold….

Posted by: alabama | Sep 13 2008 17:40 utc | 44

Women voters
Watch for this kind o’ thing, total killers:
Quote:
Again, on average, Obama’s female staffers earn just 83 cents for every dollar his male staffers make. This figure certainly exceeds the 77-cent threshold that Obama’s campaign website condemns. However, 83 cents do not equal $1. In spite of this 17-cent gap between Obama’s rhetoric and reality, he chose to chide GOP presidential contender John McCain on this issue.
Obama responded Aug. 31 to Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin’s Republican vice-presidential nomination. Palin “seems like a very engaging person,” Obama told voters in Toledo, Ohio. “But I’ve got to say, she’s opposed — like John McCain is — to equal pay for equal work. That doesn’t make much sense to me.”
Obama’s criticism notwithstanding, McCain’s payment patterns are the stuff of feminist dreams.
McCain’s 17 male staffers split $916,914, thus averaging $53,936. His 25 female employees divided $1,396,958 and averaged $55,878.
On average, according to these data, women in John McCain’s office make $1.04 for every dollar a man makes. In fact, all other things being equal, a typical female staffer could earn 21 cents more per dollar paid to her male counterpart — while adding $10,726 to her annual income — by leaving Barack Obama’s office and going to work for John McCain.
/end quote/
seattlepi.com

Posted by: Tangerine | Sep 13 2008 18:49 utc | 45

The obvious reason I didn’t want a fight over “defending” Lang, aside from being contentious with 2 of my favorites here, is I find these purity exams generally counterproductive. This almost always involves sniping at those (of us) that are careerists within the establishment that appear to share our sympathies – be they a Joe Wilson, Steve Clemens, Juan Cole, Dr Irak, or a Pat Lang. Generally, its because these folks operate within the establishment that these secondary suspicions arise, that somehow they are covertly orchestrating some kind of symphony of useful idiots, of which we are the gullible players.
To me, this is borders on typical leftist paranoia, and while not to discount the necessity of (self)criticism/praxis, many of these people, to their credit, have staked their (establishment)careers on very unpopular if not traitorous labeled positions. That have in many cases, went on to form the nucleus of public opposition, in a climate of rabid super-patriotism. If the war had gone as advertised, many of these people would have been out of their positions and out on their asses for their opposition. To me that in itself represents a significant level of commitment, and potential personal sacrifice, not to be taken so cavalierly.

Posted by: anna missed | Sep 13 2008 19:00 utc | 46

Tangerine 45 , i went over to legistorm, the source sited in the article, and the salary figures sited in the article do not match those on the website. granted i didn’t check all the individual staff salaries but the Total Salary Expenditures for both the senators (obama spends more) do not match the amounts shown in the article even taking into consideration the claim in the article Doubling these half-year figures illustrates how a year’s worth of Senate employees’ paychecks should look.
for example Based on these calculations, Obama’s 28 male staffers divided among themselves total payroll expenditures of $1,523,120. Thus, Obama’s average male employee earned $54,397.
Obama’s 30 female employees split $1,354,580 among themselves, or $45,152, on average.

total salary expenditures (according to their source) during the time period sited $1,291,782. doubled it does not match their figures, or anywhere near the number of staff.
it just reads like a hit piece. it may be accurate, but not coming from the only source they site.

Posted by: annie | Sep 13 2008 20:05 utc | 47

I don’t agree with Pat Lang that the presidential election is a lost cause for the Dems. But I do agree that had Obama known McCain was seriously thinking about choosing a woman as his running mate, he would have thought seriously about doing so as well. And had Obama known about McCain’s choice for Palin, he may have indeed chosen Hillary simply to serve as a counterweight to Palin….
And at risk of making some of you Moon viewers cringe in disgust, let me speculate further by saying that the Dems might be doing much better in the polls today had Hillary been the nominee.

Posted by: Cynthia | Sep 13 2008 20:07 utc | 48

anna missed
interelite rivalry does not surprise me – whether it comes from a bacevich, a john dean, a p c roberts, a soros or a pat lang. i don’t think i am being paranoid but nor do i think there is a conspiracy amongst the elites that these men represent. i think largely that the conservatives can see the catastrophe that has been created & the can also comprehend the consequences. the anger of these elites as enunciated by these figures is considerably more intense than you would on counterpunch, for example. it is sas if all they have buikt is being transformed either into sand, mud or ash
bacevich is from that school of isolationism that wants to limit the power of empire to concentrate more clearly pn the exercise of power – in his texts you can feel a palpable hatred of the people – it is there in his argument that a stupid people have allowed the neconservatives to emerge & conquer & implicitly they deserve whatever it is that it gets, in lang we have another colour to that – i guess what is represented by the powell doctrine – to enter where you can only win & win decisively – unfortunately the world they have constructed does not even allow that possibility – assymetrical warfare in reality means that the machinery of empire can be defeated by any configuration of resistance, john dean – once a criminal accomplice to power lauds a jurisprudence that is basically, junk but i think he understand like strauss & scmitt before him that the pretence of a proper jurisprudence is central to state power & its obvious corruption only impoverished that power, soros like brezezinski, scowcroft & others represent a bulwark of conservatives who want to maintain empire but in circumstances they themselves control. under the cheney bush junta & with the collective idiocy & impulses of the neocons that control is forever slipping from their hands
frankly, i do not know what personal cost has been risked by these elites – or their ideas, i still think they are like the elites of germany until the moments pf their defeat moscow, stalingrad & kursk. & frankly i do not think for one moment they feel threatened by terrorism( in large part they have been responsible for its construction) but i do feel they are threatened principally by the possibilities of china, of the health of russia & india, & i think they are mightily frightened by the solidarity of the people of the americas even in its fragile flowering
& on that i imagine their is a common front between a kristol, a krauthammer & a bacevich & a lang
but because the permutations of this interelite rivalry is in constant motion – there will be some more courageous than others in that fight
the people of the third world should regard them all as enemies, or as provisional enemies
however, you i & antifa are not – we are comrades under the skin & will remain so

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 13 2008 21:08 utc | 49

let me speculate further by saying that the Dems might be doing much better in the polls today had Hillary been the nominee.

i beg to differ. obama’s been the reason for the millions of new registered dems, especially the youth vote. mc wouldn’t have needed a palin, the clinton hatred of the gop would have gotten their base out, en mass.

Posted by: annie | Sep 13 2008 21:12 utc | 50

r’giap
I think PL is a constitutionalist first, and while not an isolationist, I gather he is anti-imperial at heart (one of his arguments on the US civil war is that it was an imperial war on the south), and anti-exceptionalist. However you’re your criticism that all these like minded individuals play a significant role in defining the overview narrative of USA first, and in the process diminish the helpless and ignored victims of its machinations. One of your most important contributions here, I might add, has been your tireless insisting that we see, acknowledge, and remember. Which is of course where my ultimate sympathies also reside.

Posted by: anna missed | Sep 13 2008 22:10 utc | 51

An American who has even an inkling of what’s going in the cubbyholes of our watchers, or what went down with the Robocops before and during the Minneapolis convention, or what passes with US death squads and secret operations in Afghanistan and Pakistan, or what goes bump in the night behind a Diebold machine, has got to be paranoid.
Even paranoids can’t discount the sound of termites in the walls. But even after our host of bad actors have been driven out, and have cleaned out their desks and burned their documents, after their treason and skulduggery and perversion and psychosis have been flushed out of Washington’s woodwork, the wall will still be full of termites. You will still hear, behind the plaster board, the patient chewing of the Langs and the Scowcrofts, the Albrights, and the Kissingers.
Antifa did a damn good analysis of the Colonel. It’s important, as well, that Bernhard keeps us posted on the thinking these archetypes of empire. We must be vigilent, paranoid (in moderation), and possessed with a will that never weakens.

Posted by: Copeland | Sep 13 2008 22:16 utc | 52

“This reinforces my pet theory that b is special forces operating out of Ramstein, trolling for left-wing sysop domain names, after which FBI does their search and seizure without warrant on your liberal white ass.”
Tee Hee. [I skipped comments for this.]
What annie says (#50) Still registering too. BIG drive. I gave my best smile to a lady on a Camden street this morning as I drove by.

Posted by: beq | Sep 13 2008 22:25 utc | 53

Tee Hee.
lol, exactly my response w/a big grin and cackle afterwards. besides if this was the case he would surely have been peeved w/the haphazard motley crew that descended on his doorstep, and he wasn’t sans berlin (train station)
“ALL I WANT IS A ROOM SOMEWHERE, FAR AWAY FROM…”
where’s catlady! faux! cook me up some greens!

Posted by: – – – – – | Sep 13 2008 23:14 utc | 54

yes i supoose we are not far from that moment in hostory that being capable of communicating with one another becomes a crime

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 13 2008 23:23 utc | 55

Annie @47
I think the difference represents the Morphodites.

Posted by: Artilect | Sep 13 2008 23:46 utc | 56

why didn’t you link to wiktionary art? either way the difference (i pointed to) needs to be supported thru the finances, not the sex of staff.
r’giap being capable of communicating with one another becomes a crime
(not communicating can be suspicious too!)
coming to the workplace near you
Alienated individuals who display a secret interest in suspicious topics but never let on by communicating with others are the most likely to be an insider threat,
hat tip uncle for link (i think)

Posted by: annie | Sep 14 2008 1:20 utc | 57

@ r’giap et al…
yes i supoose we are not far from that moment in hostory that being capable of communicating with one another becomes a crime
indeed comrade, however,can it be far behind ? Of course, we know the new empire, is merely a reworked form of old empire. Doppleganger’s in crime against humanity.
Love him or hate him, Ward Churchill was right if only in that, what they will do is ‘back engineer’ the evidence against us be it “our own words” (taken out of context of course)or some other such bastardization of jurisprudential malignancy. Hell, the thought crime bill is already warmed up.
Although tyranny, because it needs no consent, may successfully rule over foreign peoples, it can stay in power only if it destroys first of all the national institutions of its own people .
– Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism
Feed, Leviathan, feed…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 14 2008 1:23 utc | 58

Gee Copeland, I think Bernhard was actually agreeing with this particular archetype of empire.

Posted by: anna missed | Sep 14 2008 1:29 utc | 59

yeah, I was looking for that and got side tracked, thanks annie…
as for their looking for us discontents, here we are, and here’s a prize for em…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 14 2008 1:40 utc | 60

since i was a child – i have sd what i mean to say & tho there have been moments of clandestinity in my life my ideas have never been hidden. strangely or not strangely they have appeared in newspapers wherever i have lived in interviews or stories or beat ups tho one of murdoch’s papers wanted me out of a festival of the arts in a certain town because i was, for them a proponent of artistic & political extremism – but as always the hack who wrote it was not capable of a single real idea – was in fact like most of murdochs merchants, a moron
i suppose because the enemy has always appeared to me as stupid as they really are – i have felt no fear, no fear at all but i imagine that is true of most of us here – these are not confessionals that we write but awkward communications through wires. if i had ever felt that sort of fear i would have topped myself
i have feared my own volatility but that is another apple entirely but i have been lucky that my art has always taught me to be a student & to listen & in listening, profoundly – you recognise exactly what they are – & as i have repeated often enough – their worst crimes are day to day inequality of opportunity which in the 21st century has only gotten worse
& their violence – whether it is in word or deed – is the violence of thugs – it is thoughtless & requires neither analysis of reflection – it is primal in the crudest possible way
i think you fear only if you have been mystified & if you have ever been in one of the focis of the beast – whatever mystery surrounding that power dissapears completely. yes cumulatively it is horrendous & i do not mean to diminish the unnecessary millions who have died or been tortured for the projects of empire – nut at the end of the day – this empire is empty. yes it is capable of unleashing at once the most terrible physical violence & the most destructive cultural violence in a way that has destroyed multiplicities all over the world – but you have to listen to only one sentence of a kristol, a krauthammer, a friedman, a wolfowitz – to know basically, they are cretins. even their godheads scmitt strauss et al are no great shakes in the thinking department – kierkegaard or wittgenstein sd in one aphorism more than these pieces of shit could ever say in pile after pile of their torrid tomes. their ideas are not thought – they are ejaculations of air with words attached – which as shakespeare hinted “signify nothing”. often they are nothing more than the proof of their own alienation
but as hitler’s thousand year reich did not last 12 years neither will this particular reich
we should never allow ourselves to ever fear them in any way – to speak openly in fact is the best defence. it is one of the first things you learn as a poet – that the most private of your thoughts can be sd publically – often because they are shared & that rather than isolating you it makes those thoughts work towards their proper human & dialectical transformation
they should be fought out in the open & whatever – this or that detractor wants to suggest – we here are out in the open & that is as it should be

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 14 2008 2:13 utc | 61

I don’t think Obama stands to be defeated. He has shown good organization in his campaign and an ability to adapt quickly. He was criticized harshly by Steve Soto at TLC for holding back on the surrogate organizations that would attack McCain’s character. The dirtier politics. The Repubs have been building this kind of sleazy offensive for months against Obama.
Barack is no shrinking violet though; and unlike the example of Kerry in ’04, he is hitting back pretty hard and has openly called McCain and Palin liars. This is going to be “a tooth grinding election” as one blogger put it.
B is drawn to Lang’s conclusion in a short post that highlights what is perceived as Obama’s weakness of not asserting himself enough; but I don’t believe this will be proven true over the campaign. Lang points to McCain’s weakness but believes McCain will win in any case.
Lang is strongly opposed to neocon mismanagement and moronic world view and reckless use of military power. But Lang is Old School, an Establishment Guy, another termite in the woodwork of the Republic. Perhaps he has some value on a certain level to critique neocon methodologies and pathologies. I didn’t get the idea that B was endorsing the Colonel, just agreeing with a point he made.
I don’t know what else to say, except that we will be totally in the shitcan if McCain wins this election.

Posted by: Copeland | Sep 14 2008 2:42 utc | 62

“we should never allow ourselves to ever fear them in any way – to speak openly in fact is the best defence. it is one of the first things you learn as a poet – that the most private of your thoughts can be sd publically – often because they are shared & that rather than isolating you it makes those thoughts work towards their proper human & dialectical transformation”
That’s the spirit, r’giap. Amen

Posted by: Copeland | Sep 14 2008 2:56 utc | 63

their ideas are not thought – they are ejaculations of air with words attached – which as shakespeare hinted “signify nothing”. often they are nothing more than the proof of their own alienation
say it again brother amen
B is drawn to Lang’s conclusion in a short post that highlights what is perceived as Obama’s weakness of not asserting himself enough;
we are all, all of us have a level of fear given the deceit of the times. it may not be this election, it may not be the next, but billmon is right. their time is limited by demographics. unless they can pull off the kind of overreach we see in african elections at some point they will have to concede, or revolution will be inevitable.
the global community is expanding. how fair is it that a bunch of red state racist homophobes can rule the planet?
the most private of your thoughts can be sd publically – often because they are shared & that rather than isolating you it makes those thoughts work towards their proper human & dialectical transformation
they should be fought out in the open & whatever – this or that detractor wants to suggest – we here are out in the open & that is as it should be

i’m ready
to speak openly in fact is the best defence
yes teacher

Posted by: annie | Sep 14 2008 7:19 utc | 64

OWL @ 32:

(…) the above discussion of US decline, perhaps more attention should be paid to its decline in education, science and engineering. I suspect that such will impact on US power very directly and fairly quickly.

Indeed. I bring this up in every conversation I have here w/McCain supporters, w/a lot of supporting evidence to back up your point. Additionally, the increase in graduation of high quality, homegrown degrees of the same from India/China/Russia further sharpens the point.

Posted by: jdmckay | Sep 14 2008 12:24 utc | 65

& instinctively i upended bob dylan’s dictum that “if my thoughtdreams could be seen they would probably put my head into a guillotine” & understood as the mafia do that you have an obligation to the truth, principally for your own survival

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 14 2008 13:36 utc | 66

Annie, you really are deluded, and, in fact, not much better than the scapegoaters you scapegoat. That’s the problem with prejudicial stereotyping….it’s transcendent, and shallow. It allows one to vent and emote, but it never approaches the root causes of the problem, and, so, after all the carnage, bloodshed and heartache, we’re still on the Merry-Go-Round and the tension builds again until we find the next convenient scapegoat. Round and Round we go….when we get off…hell, you don’t get off until you die, but maybe that’s not even a guarantee, maybe we just move to Level II in this fucked up computer simulation.

Posted by: Artilect | Sep 14 2008 13:42 utc | 67

Please, Remember, stop with the Dylan quotes, because most people can’t separate the words from the person, and we now know who that person really is.
Dylan’s Just Another Scumbag

Posted by: Artilect | Sep 14 2008 13:48 utc | 68

Annie, you really are deluded,
we must stop meeting like this. your obsession is transparent. there are so many other voices here, why bother ambiguously w/mine. unless you are on some kind of mission or something
“facilitators” or “change agents,” who deliberately escalate tension among group members, pitting one faction against another to make a preordained viewpoint appear “sensible,” while making opposing views appear ridiculous.
i note how you do not copy and paste whatever it is you are referring to, nor address my responses to you specifically.
to repeat something r’giap said
to speak openly in fact is the best defence
i am not afraid of you. not in the least and i do not care if you think i am deluded. if i ignore your remarks in the future please assume i don’t think this squabble is worthwhile and whatever point you are trying to make is lost to me.

Posted by: annie | Sep 14 2008 16:46 utc | 69