It’s already clear that Palin offers an embarrassment of riches for the Obama campaign, and a wealth of embarrassments for McCain’s. There’s no need to get greedy — or cruel and vindicative, which is the one thing that could cause this whole freeding frenzy to circle back and start munching on the Democrats. McCain’s people wanted to toss the pregnancy story into Hurricane Gustav? Good. Let it be buried in the muck.
Except for one obvious point: When Sarah Palin praises her 17-year-old daughter for "choosing" to give birth to a baby conceived out of wedlock (and assures us that she is doing it of her own free will) it should never be forgotten that she (and her party) would, if they could, deny that same right of choice to every other American woman, without exception.
Billmon: Ready, shoot, aim
Among other less attention-grabbing news of the day: it was learned that Ms. Palin now has a private lawyer in a legislative ethics investigation in Alaska into whether she abused her power in dismissing the state’s public safety commissioner; that she was a member for two years in the 1990s of the Alaska Independence Party, which has at times sought a vote on whether the state should secede; and that Mr. Palin was arrested 22 years ago on a drunken-driving charge.
Disclosures on Palin Raise Questions on Vetting Process
When will McCain fire her? Today or tomorrow?
It is interesting that the whole reason for Palin was a deep split in the Republican party between the neocon’s and the “the base”.
From the NYT linked above:
Up until midweek last week, some 48 to 72 hours before Mr. McCain introduced Ms. Palin at a Friday rally in Dayton, Ohio, Mr. McCain was still holding out the hope that he could choose a good friend, Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, independent of Connecticut, a Republican close to the campaign said. Mr. McCain had also been interested in another favorite, former Gov. Tom Ridge of Pennsylvania.
But both men favor abortion rights, anathema to the Christian conservatives who make up a crucial base of the Republican Party. As word leaked out that Mr. McCain was seriously considering the men, the campaign was bombarded by outrage from influential conservatives who predicted an explosive floor fight at the convention and vowed rejection of Mr. Ridge or Mr. Lieberman by the delegates.
Perhaps more important, several Republicans said, Mr. McCain was getting advice that if he did not do something to shake up the race, his campaign would be stuck on a potentially losing trajectory.
With time running out — and as Mr. McCain discarded two safer choices, Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota and former Gov. Mitt Romney of Massachusetts, as too predictable — he turned to Ms. Palin.
I speculated that she would be thrown under the bus today, for you guys out eastward that is, for us left coasters it is still tomorrow. If you’re gonna do it, do it quick.
The first one who correctly picks out the ostensible reason gets the brownie prize.
Health, more time with family, take your pick…
Posted by: Dick Durata | Sep 2 2008 5:58 utc | 3
I think I meant it would be tomorrow. Color me confused, by choice.
Posted by: Dick Durata | Sep 2 2008 6:02 utc | 4
Pat Lang comments on how Palin is not in the Jewish community’s good books.
“Rep. Bob Wexler, D-Florida, took the AP report, and said “John McCain’s decision to select a vice presidential running mate that endorsed Pat Buchanan for president in 2000 is a direct affront to all Jewish Americans.[…]
The big question about Palin and “foreign” policy ought to be how she can have supported Buchanan’s view that Israel is a small, foreign place, far away that costs the US more than it is worth. Now she is the running mate (“soul mate” as well?) of John (Ich bin ein Tel Aviver) McCain.
This woman has more baggage than Imelda Marcos had shoes. A former member of the Alaskan Independence Party who fires state officials for no good reasons is a Buchanan supporter. Bingo. Triple treat. Let’s see who is hungry enough to go for a bite.
Posted by: Juan Moment | Sep 2 2008 6:29 utc | 5
Well, I suppose she’ll throw herself under the bus if she is told — but they will only do that if they figure that the dems are going to be nasty and mean to her — then she can sob and say she is doing for the sake of Mad Kane’s and of course for her sweet sweet daughter that she loves so much and, most important, the unborn baby…
THEN, having milked the millage out of that and satisfied the more rabid part of his base, the mad one can perhaps choose, Joe, his lover of choice. I doubt that it will really play out that way though.
And to backtrack a bit: the flap last week about Ms Palin’s baby was her daughter’s did have a kernel of reality — the daughter was pregnent in the picture, the question being of course when the picture was taken.
Posted by: Chuck Cliff | Sep 2 2008 6:35 utc | 6
way to gobble down the chum y’all. it’s so great to see billmon use his stick to take his swipe at the pinata. gee, what tasty morsels will the broken vessel disgorge?
meanwhile…
Posted by: Lizard | Sep 2 2008 6:59 utc | 7
Let me introduce you to Palin’s new(?) son in law, Levi Johnson:
On his MySpace page, Johnston boasts, “I’m a f – – -in’ redneck” who likes to snowboard and ride dirt bikes.
“But I live to play hockey. I like to go camping and hang out with the boys, do some fishing, shoot some s- – – and just f – – -in’ chillin’ I guess.”
“Ya f – – – with me I’ll kick [your] ass,” he added.
He also claims to be “in a relationship,” but states, “I don’t want kids.”
Some interesting pics which throw up more questions (scroll down to the pictures).
The story has more legs than a bucket of centipedes. And what do you do with a bucket of centipedes? Mr Palin is probably thinking of fishing again.
Posted by: anna missed | Sep 2 2008 7:24 utc | 9
“deny that same right of choice to every other American woman, without exception”
Unlike the UK you don’t have a law that allows abortion. Might you not feel you have a stronger case if your legilsators actually framed a law, debated it and passed it on to the President ?
It is perfectly respectable to believe that ending the life of a child before birth is equivalent to infanticide. There is no prior requirement to be a relgious fundamentalist to hold that view.
I cannot vote – I wouldn’t vote for either candidate, but I think picking Palin is a stoke of brilliance. Nancy and Shrillary must be spitting feathers.
Anyone who thinks the Repugs who collect squillions of $’s and spend it, don’t do it without carefully examining every choice. McCain didn’t make this choice on his owwn …or quickly. Of course she hasn’t a squeaky clean past… OMG her husband was on a DUI in 1986 ! Her daughter gets knocked up by a wannabe redneck .. this precludes her from the Ameican belief that any citizen CAN be President ?
Presidency is a learn on the job , job. There is no University degree in it.
On ABC tonight following their pointed Palin story, they added this little morsel about the lobby class partying to the band “Hookers and Blow” in St.Paul. Unusual for the MSM to do such a story about influence peddling.
Posted by: anna missed | Sep 2 2008 8:10 utc | 12
“It is perfectly respectable to believe that ending the life of a child before birth is equivalent to infanticide.”
No, it’s not.
By the way, were I the Palins, be it Sarah, Todd, the children, or even the soon-to-be-father-and-Bristol-husband hockey redneck, I would avoid flying in small planes. In fact, specially if I were this Johnson guy.
Posted by: CluelessJoe | Sep 2 2008 8:21 utc | 13
Here is a claim that Palin was vetted by the CNP and that Mad Kane really had little to say in the matter if he wanted Dobson’s imprimatur…
Posted by: Chuck Cliff | Sep 2 2008 8:45 utc | 14
This story, the Palin choice, is quintessential McCain. It follows the man like a stalking shadow. Or a mishap on the deck of the Forrestal, or a lucky SAM missile shot, or as a star son of the admiral POW, or the hapless member of the Keating 5, or the failed challenge to Bush in 2000, or now as the wrong choice of a lifetime. The man is a hex.
Posted by: anna missed | Sep 2 2008 9:22 utc | 15
Respectfully, while you guys have four of five posts on this distraction, there are so many things going on behind the curtain (I’m sure most of you know this..) Her son leaving on Sept 11th was all I needed to hear, to realize this is all kabuki theater. Anyway, here’s an example of things going on behind the presented…
Federal government involved in raids on protesters
if true, this is a hugh development…
Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 2 2008 10:51 utc | 16
Palin ws suppsed to bind the conservative voters without forcing the party to put off a lot of moderate Americans by actually getting up and holding forth on abortion rights, gun control, abstinence only and creationism in the schools, more drilling, etc.
Sarah’s very presence was supposed to remind them of that.
But now her preence is reminding a lot of moderates that although abstinence is the preferrred approach, they would still like to have another option available just in case their own model daughters fall off the bandwagon before they make it down the aisle…
And as more comes out about her background, she is coming across as someone who is very much at home in Alaska but out of place anywhere else in America.
Posted by: ralphieboy | Sep 2 2008 11:12 utc | 17
Whats the point in poring over Palin’s family? The question is if she is fit to be the President of the US, and the character of her daughter’s boyfriend has imho next to nothing to do with her qualification to hold office. There are plenty of good reasons to oppose her as VP, dragging her family into the fray is not necessary.
And you are absolutely right Uncle, there are other topics to be tackled, like maybe this piece from Uruknet:
Biden: Israel should accept ‘nuclear’ Iran
Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:20:21 GMT
The US Democratic vice-presidential candidate Joe Biden has advised senior Israeli officials to come to terms with a ‘nuclear’ Iran.
In a clandestine meeting with unnamed Israeli officials, which was partially covered by the US Jewish Army Radio, Barack Obama’s vice-presidential nominee said, “Israel will have to reconcile itself with the nuclearization of Iran.”
According to the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, Biden, a six-time Delaware Senator and chairperson of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told the “amazed” officials, “It’s doubtful if the economic sanctions will be effective, and I am against opening an additional military and diplomatic front.”
Strange things do happen, but can this be true?
And as a side note, I have to agree with ziz that there is no prior requirement to be a religious fundamentalist to hold the view that an abortion is ending a human life. There are plenty of atheists holding this belief, me included.
Posted by: Juan Moment | Sep 2 2008 11:58 utc | 18
Uncle @ 16
Just saw the video of Amy Goodman being arrested. Stormtroopers, threatening language, plastic handcuffs. Much worse: this is linked in Uncle’s Salon link: Massive Police Raids on Suspected Protesters in Minneapolis.
Suspected protesters? This is insane. But it all makes perfect sense.
Perhaps an opportune time to check THIS out: article by Matt Kennard about neo-Nazi infiltration of the US army.
Posted by: Tantalus | Sep 2 2008 12:21 utc | 19
As the attention of the America public is focused on the American election, with the Democratic Convention having just ended, and the announcement today of McCain’s female running mate, and the Republican Convention next week, the public has missed something. Something not missed by Europeans, even mainstream European news media have given broad coverage to the story. Just a minor story, really, no need to turn your attention away from the political puff that is American electoral politics. Just something about Russia (you know the big country with tens of thousands of nuclear weapons and advanced delivery systems) and a clear WAR WARNING TO NATO.
In what is the most serious international crisis since the Cuban Missile Crisis almost caused World War III forty-five years ago, Russia has issued a War Warning to NATO and America. “If NATO suddenly takes military actions against Abkhazia and South Ossetia, acting solely in support of Tbilisi, this will mean a declaration of war on Russia,” said the Russian Ambassador to NATO, Mr. Dmitry Rogozin. Further, Russia is making it clear that military assistance to Georgia will be considered an act of war. Ambassador Rogozin likened the current crisis to the fevered diplomatic atmosphere in Europe just before the start of the First World War. World War I was said to start when “the lights went out in the chancelleries of Europe” and diplomatic measures failed.
`snip`
The Bush Administration funded a buildup of the Georgian Army and recently sent about a thousand US Marines to train the Georgian troops. Israel and the United States sold a large amount of military technology and hardware to Georgia. Israeli companies, headed by reserve Israeli generals, brought in excess of a thousand Israeli mercenaries into Georgia and two senior, recently retired Israeli generals provided senior command “consulting” to the Georgian General Staff. All of this turned very ugly, when on 8/8/08 the Georgian forces attacked lightly armed Russian peace keepers along with many innocent Russian civilians using volley fire from massed tubeless artillery. Over 1,400 men, women, and children were killed in their own homes without warning, in the opening minutes (with over 2,000 killed in the five day war). In response to this, Russia sent in her troops and most Georgian troops retreated (some “retreated” so fast that they threw away their uniforms, guns, and equipment as they ran home).
Also, Cheney heads to ex-Soviet nations in show of support
8 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AFP) — US Vice President Dick Cheney departs Tuesday on a four-nation tour to support US allies Georgia and Ukraine amid a chill in relations with Russia over its military conflict with Georgia.
Talks on energy and how to offset Russian oil dominance are also high on the agenda for the visit, which comes on the heels of a decision Monday by EU leaders to freeze strategic partnership talks with Moscow until Russian troops withdraw from Georgia.
Cheney will be the highest ranking US official to visit Tbilisi since Russian tanks rolled into its smaller neighbor in early August and fought a five-day war over the Moscow-backed rebel region of South Ossetia.
The White House led global condemnation of Russia’s subsequent decision to recognize the breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent states, calling it “irresponsible,” but laid out no concrete retaliatory plans.
Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 2 2008 12:29 utc | 20
from link@10
by Eric Patton:
Obama gives working-class people no reason to vote for him (he actually gives liberal coordinators no reason to vote for him either, outside of the fact that he’s a Democrat and that he’s half-black).
What is re-enforced by this “statement” is that Obama’s success is helped to a significant (or at least tangible) extent by his being half-black. Even though the “half-black” part of the statement is actually redundant.
Theres plenty of evidence of fairly broad increased excitement at having a half-black candidate for the first time. But theres no evidence that being half-black has gained Obama more in terms of actual supporters that would have nominally gone to McCain than it has cost him supporters that would have nominally stuck with him if he were White. In other words, Patton may be confused by the difference between quality & quantity.
Overall, Obama gets beat up the most in this article. But if we were to remove all references to him, its pretty much a standard (but good) rant at the ineffectiveness of the Democratic party apparatus — which is entirely no fault of Obama’s. In fact Obama’s success is independent of them.
Posted by: jony_b_cool | Sep 2 2008 12:32 utc | 21
When the Palins announced that their daughter chose to “keep” the “baby”, they, in my opinion, were not implying that abortion is an option, or a “choice”. Though it does make a good talking point for us.
My take is that “choosing to keep” means that the “option” of adoption is off the table. Their language allows the inference that abortion was given consideration and then rejected. But this would not be how fundies think.
Who knows what Bristol wants, especially since she must know that the boyfriend she will soon wed claims he doesn’t want kids. In the recent photos she looks not only distracted but also sad.
Posted by: Hamburger | Sep 2 2008 14:29 utc | 22
As Billmon so pithily puts it, like fish in a barrel. Have mercy on the patsy, boys and girls. She’s a Judas goat who knows no better, leading us in the wrong direction.
This election has to be about the love of the office of the president, the love of the real goodness in the people of America. This election has to mirror the unmistakable good heart and honesty of our candidate. This election has to be a shining example of the true nature of democracy.
Democracy is we the people. Quote the great man “It is that promise that’s always set this country apart, that through hard work and sacrifice each of us can pursue our individual dreams, but still come together as one….but that we also have obligations to treat each other with dignity and respect…..that we are responsible for ourselves, but that we also rise or fall as one nation, the fundamental belief that I am my brother’s keeper, I am my sister’s keeper.” [This is]… “our intellectual and moral strength.”
The bush GOP are irretrievably snared in their own dullish hatred and it has been nigh impossible not to hate them for it or to escape the stench it spread. Sarah the patsy gives us the opportunity to leave that hatred behind.
That said, Impeach and trial for all those involved in the criminal behaviour of the bush/cheney administration. And give Denis Kucinich the authority for it’s organisation.
Posted by: waldo | Sep 2 2008 14:38 utc | 23
b, your ‘more questions’ link in #8, i ran into those pics on sunday @ another site. they were originally on the sisters my space page which has been scrubbed. it’s going to be hard to explain them away.
It is perfectly respectable to believe that ending the life of a child before birth is equivalent to infanticide. There is no prior requirement to be a relgious fundamentalist to hold that view.
‘respectable’ seems like an odd usage here. are you saying is it is worthy of respect to define fetus as ‘child’ (even if that fetus is to include a 6 week old fetus). the term infant (infanticide) refers to newborns. i can respect a person who feels this way. i think both sides of this issue are worthy of respect and i feel it is essential boths sides come from a place of respect for their adversaries when considering this issue. the problem arises when one sides views extends to imposing their view on the other side and denying their opponent right to hold another view. this is not respect not worthy of respect.
iow of course i can respect anyone’s wish to define their fetus as a child, what i cannot respect is extending this definition to include all fetuses and not extending the respectability label to those of us who choose not to define a fetus the way you do.
i guess my problem w/the ‘respectable’ ‘defense’ (because it is a defense to say, ‘it is perfectly respectable’) when what it appears you are really saying is ‘it is not respectable to hold the other view’. btw, i don’t think anyone has ever claimed it is only fundies who oppose abortion.
It is perfectly respectable to believe that ending the life of a fetus is not equivalant to murder. There is no prior requirement to be a atheist to hold that view.
Posted by: annie | Sep 2 2008 16:11 utc | 24
thanks for reminding everyone what democracy means, waldo. all this time i was thinking “democracy” was this linguistic trojan horse for the expansion of amerikan empire while the concept here at home is being brutally bludgeoned to death.
and showing mercy for a patsy really shows how transcendent your idealism is. the love you emanate is like a powerful narcotic. suddenly all my skepticism and cynicism has evaporated! I see the light!
O happy days are here to stay!!!
Posted by: Lizard | Sep 2 2008 16:18 utc | 26
I am going to have to review my long standing prediction of a smooth McC win.
Just as well?
I can’t judge the relevance of whatever is being dug up about Palin, her family, her action, past..
Makes her look like an ordinary American, right? That might even be positive.
The mistake: if one is going to do slice ‘n dice identity politics you need your head screwed on, your numbers in hand, and a good plan. And then you have to make these huge data sheets…meters and meters in Excel.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained is not the motto of the day.
Some killer facts that are spat out (in the imagination):
No Repub. base person, no trad. Repub voter, no Fundie, will do anything but vote against Obama, even if the VP is Minnie Mouse and the P comatose.
The black vote was lost in any case, so it was correct not to bother with that. Turning out more white, trad, Repub, fundie, votes is not really possible (?), the extra turnout expected is already accounted for by the fact of there being a ‘new’, young, unknown, ‘black,’ dem. candidate. (From 2 to 5 points.)
No or very few Dem. base, blue-collar, lower socio-ec. trad. in the majority female, Hillary supporters sore at Obama being selected will cross over. Very few undecided or ‘issues’ women will now vote the McC ticket. Previous, the cross over was expected to be quite large; now the cross over will go from even-out to possibly favor Obama. (?)
More generally:
Palin as VP shifts the McC ticket sharply to the right, too far to the right. It is the wrong positioning, and thrashes his rep as a ‘independent thinker’ politically if not socially.
Moreover, the aura, of ::
white, religious, puritan, far off, clouds, cold, outpost, nitty gritty survival, family life, fundi values, snow, white, small town, personal contact, conquer, bridges to nowhere, guns, beauty, many babies no abortion, average, hockey, family life again, state college, etc. etc. will not speak to any townies, etc. fill it in, east or west coast, which is where the rich and the earners live, whatever their political coloring and their muddled thinking about economics. Other prism, reading.
McC has destroyed his advantage of being seen as ‘safe’. Polls have shown that ppl consider Obama a ‘risky choice’ – and favor him; McC as a ‘safe choice’ …. – a tremendous advantage on election day. That advantage is now lost. How many pc. points? Say, between 2 and maybe even 6.
McC left the ‘safe, conventional’ script to try to trump Obama. Adopting your enemy’s tactics is often very unwise, has to be considered carefully. A position of strength must not be abandoned so lightly.
Posted by: Tangerine | Sep 2 2008 17:57 utc | 27
ugly thought, but another huge backfire for the GOP would be if one of the palin’s guns wind up assisting a family member — or even a soon-to-be member — in dealing w/ the intense scrutiny & pressures currently being focused on them. the way this story has taken off in just a few short days, w/ all the crazy subplots, i won’t be shocked at anything.
Posted by: b real | Sep 2 2008 18:31 utc | 28
white, religious, puritan, far off, clouds, cold, outpost, nitty gritty survival, family life, fundi values, snow, white, small town, personal contact, conquer, bridges to nowhere, guns, beauty, many babies no abortion, average, hockey, family life again, state college, etc. etc.
Her trick was supposed to keep her mouth shut and just to incorporate all those values the GOP wanted to appeal to without having to mention them too directly.
But now her presence on the ticket is starting to remind us that she is a woman who would not only force her own daughter to keep a baby she might not want, but would be ready to come along and force your daughters, too…
Posted by: ralphieboy | Sep 2 2008 19:22 utc | 29
its doubtful that theres any dependable way to predict this race. Even if Obama is up 10 points a few days before the election, his peripheral support is soft & may be too soft to hold up against whatever last-minute stunts the Republicans come up with to put it in Diebold range. A big turnout of youth/upscales/minorities would be very good for him, also to absorb voting/counting irregularities.
Posted by: jony_b_cool | Sep 2 2008 20:13 utc | 30
Deep republican christnut talk:
Speaking before the Pentecostal church, Palin painted the current war in Iraq as a messianic affair in which the United States could act out the will of the Lord.
“Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God,” she exhorted the congregants. “That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.”
I think God’s Home School Warrior is the best break Obama has had since Hillary conceded.
Posted by: Diogenes | Sep 2 2008 21:52 utc | 32
ouch on this one, babies, lies, scandal. that is the screaming headlines of the soon to be supermarket tabloid cover from US weekly as reported by abc blog. losing the framing war, she is.
Posted by: annie | Sep 2 2008 21:54 utc | 33
The McCain team still have plenty of time to see this through and if Sarah Palin holds up psychologically and as they sense her competitive spirit, they’ll be tempted to let her tough it out. She is very capable of delivering an excellent convention speech where she’ll share some personal insight and she may win enough hearts & minds to start to turn things around. But she can’t come off as a total right-wing Christian fundie and thats going to bring some backlash from them. But this lady is very tough, very smart & a quick learner.
When she asked what the VP does, I think she really meant it. She did’nt really know enough about what she was getting herself into. Also her past support for Pat Buchanan & the Alaska Independence Party suggests she is a very independent-minded type rather than the standard Republican/fundie clone.
And she seems the type who if she does’nt get what she wants, well your fired. Not nice, but at least not as bad as being patronized & set up.
If she was a Democrat or progressive I would really want to wish her good-luck.
Posted by: jony_b_cool | Sep 2 2008 22:14 utc | 34
jbcool
day by day the monstrous american beast becomes more & more macabre
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 2 2008 22:26 utc | 35
I have two problems raised by the ongoing revelations regarding Palin’s spawn.
1. I hate the 1990’s habit of giving girls geographical names (sorry to all the Shasta’s and Sierra’s out there)and ;
2. I find it remarkably clueless to give your kid a name that in British slang means “tits”. That’s just asking for trouble, and they got it.
Posted by: Ombibulous | Sep 2 2008 23:29 utc | 36
american political culture is like some 70’s horrorschlock movie filmed by pornographers in santa barbera for a few bucks for blow
the commentaries within that culture is so crude – it’d make you wish for that old witchhunter walter winchel going through his benzedrine period
it is an ugly, ugly thing to watch
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 2 2008 23:29 utc | 37
R’Giap: So, you’re saying that all this is straight out from a Russ Meyer’s script?
I’m gonna think about it.
Posted by: CluelessJoe | Sep 3 2008 0:06 utc | 38
cj
yes, but perhaps not poor russ but someone who couldn’t even make that grade – his films are masterwork compared to this shit
& when you add in the j liebermann factor – we are talking of vomit in a volume that even bremer’s babies couldn’t imagine a metric
whatever is the absoilute opposite of dostoyevsky – they are
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 3 2008 0:19 utc | 39
what a contemptible piece of shit liebermann is
what breed of man is so self absorbed that he cannot see the slaughterhouse he is in & cannot see the catastrophe in front of his eyes
it is an obscenity
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 3 2008 2:49 utc | 40
An aside – some of the commentary at this blog generally, and this thread in particular – is priceless! R’Giap!* Clueless Joe! Annie!
Maybe this is the wine talking, but there just aren’t thinkers and writers like you folks in many other places, whether MSM or some of the bigger blogs. And I really really appreciate the commentary here.
Posted by: Maxcrat | Sep 3 2008 3:49 utc | 41
Maxcrat , i am so honored to be included w/r’giap and our wonderful mr (who is anything but) clueless.
the commentaries within that culture is so crude – it’d make you wish for that old witchhunter walter winchel going through his benzedrine period
it is an ugly, ugly thing to watch
jesus, if i had a dollar for every time i simultaneously laughed and choked from your visions…
1. I hate the 1990’s habit of giving girls geographical names
lol, i didn’t know bristol was a place til you inspired me to google..chelsea? i know a few sierras. one paris and a china. i also know one very cool tuk named after tukwila (wa state)
Posted by: annie | Sep 3 2008 4:46 utc | 42
‘giap: it’s getting more and more difficult to find the words, and as a poet i consider that a serious problem. from inside this monstrosity there’s a vapid sheen over everything and i really can’t believe there are tens of millions of people on both sides who have been convinced to eagerly insert themselves like spark plugs into this soulless machinery.
what’s happening right now, all of it, from the soap opera to the horror show, is more dangerous than we can allow ourselves to realize. with a shrug of the shoulders we watch footage of journalists thrown to the ground and bound with plastic restraints. we read reports of knock warrants carried out by riot police with assault rifles and guns pointed at children. if these domestic scenes aren’t enough to cause a significant stir, then it’s no wonder we amerikans lose no sleep over millions slaughtered; the reports of foreign babies killed has no effect on us whatsoever.
how many amerikans will remain blissfully unaware of what police state actions today imply for tomorrow?
it’s damn near impossible to penetrate the shell of self-gratifying attention we envelop ourselves in as ravenous consumers. junkie amerika always needs more, and that is the one constant in the ever-shifting equation of our national behavior. and we’ll buy whatever tremendous load of shit either corporate mouthpiece finds expedient to unload as long as the vague and inauthentic promises maintain the vapid sheen of our warped reality.
for what it’s worth, a little something that rhymes…
the spectacle no longer has us guessing
to what degree we’re fucked
and language, like an unrepentant soldier,
has no use for sympathy, or love
so face the concrete with a knee in your back
and breathe the pain till you choke
cause all that remains of the world you knew
is the punchline to a horrible joke
Posted by: Lizard | Sep 3 2008 4:46 utc | 43
R’giap said: what a contemptible piece of shit liebermann is
I couldn’t agree more.
Up thread further, Annie said: “’respectable’ seems like an odd usage here. are you saying is it is worthy of respect to define fetus as ‘child’ (even if that fetus is to include a 6 week old fetus).”
What the fuck is the difference between a fetus that is “six weeks old”,”” six weeks and 1/100 of a second old” or “5 weeks, 6 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes, 59 and 99/100 of a second old”?
What magically happens at that 1/100 of a second in every fetus? Or exactly what is this magic age where murder is only a millisecond away?
I always have trouble with laws that make something a felony because of a single second concerning someone’s age, yet a millisecond sooner or later it is no crime at all. Perhaps my memory is wrong on the following example, but awhile back, ‘conchita’ posted about a predicament of a black teenager (around 18 years old at the time of the ‘incident’ and charged with a hideous sex crime even though his partner was about the same age and a willing participant. Racism was obvious; however, in this instance the cover for racism was timing.
Annie, I have been reading your posts for the last few days about Palin, and your posts, along with so many others (especially at the Dkos link you provided us) are so prejudiced with your love for “pro-choice” that you glee at any tabloid or equally unreliable DKos rumor about her or her family misfortunes. In addition, the comments at Dkos about Palin having a Down Syndrome baby were disgusting. My uncle Jim was born with Down Syndrome. He led a very happy and productive life. Our family, including the families of my aunts and uncles, would have missed a valuable person in our lives if Jim had been aborted. He was schooled by nuns at St. Coletta’s, along with John F. Kennedy’s kin. I don’t think the media interfered with politician’s private family lives as much back then. Yet assisting in spreading unfounded rumors about someone’s family for political or personal gain is the lowest. Moreover, to use pictures of a female’s body in an attempt to prove or disprove a pregnancy is the utmost in foolishness, unless, of course, that picture is an X-ray or similar invasive scene.
I agree with ziz’s statement “It is perfectly respectable to believe that ending the life of a child before birth is equivalent to infanticide.” Perhaps I need to refresh my philosophical and mathematical logic courses from my university days for I could not follow annie’s logic in her attack on this statement. Annie ‘appeared’ (geez, quite a popular and handy word lately!), to read into this statement a personal attack on her view of what a fetus is or is not.
Posted by: Rick | Sep 3 2008 5:34 utc | 44
The whole Palin fiasco is like some bizarre work of science fiction, that incorporates speaking in tongues, Pentacostal glossolalia, safaris to shoot wolves from light aircraft, shooting fish with assault rifles, all personified by an annoying, almost intolerable speaking voice. The republicans themselves are caught playing with the Book of Revelation, like strung-out meth heads cooking up more product in a trailer in back of the RNC.
Robocops and teen pregnancy. Fascism with undercurrents of oddball religion. Senile dementia slouching toward Bethlehem and the New American Century inventing Big Brother anew, probably as a hybrid of Elmer Gantry and Augusto Pinochet.
We would have to be a mad country, slipping into some narrative introduced by Rod Serling. The non-entity Palin appears perhaps as that none too credible mask that still permits the enemy to storm our weakened defenses, to humiliate science, pervert religion, subdue reason, and strike down liberty.
But maybe this strategy will yet unravel before the horrified eyes of the nation, and all this will backfire on the authoritarians, and send McCain and his handlers down to defeat.
coleman & friends
ii can’t believe what i am witnessing; last night – with all their grimaces & smirks i thought i was watching a morgue – marionettes – animated by assholes
it was & remains so macabre. so macabre that it gives you chills with all the old lines returning out of the mouths of madmen & madwomen. you know they have no connection to reality nor want one. i work here with asylums – & there is a kind of patient who prefers the irreality of the institution. healing is beside the point for these people because in a way they cultivate madness as a metier but it is a madness not borne of suffering nor is it ecstatic. it is if you will a mediocre madness
& what i witnessed at the conventions is a microcosm of that mediocre madness – where other people have to suffer because these people are unable to change, to take risks or even to be responsible
at every level – that is what we can say about republican administrations – for all their talk of service & country – they are not civically responsible – blaming someone else & they do not cultivate that civic responsibility – on the contrary they demolish it & that is why their institutions fear work so well
to be immobile is not to be innocent
i return to hôpital tommorrow to see if i have a cancer in my stomach & so i have been a little darker than usual but gladly there is no cable in the hôpital so i will not have to suffer through these syphlitics or their servants in the media who ejaculate their particular kind of emptiness all over us
an idiot wind
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 3 2008 17:50 utc | 46
@Rick – 44 – a child is born, a fetus not yet.
1. The real question is when a clump of cells becomes a person of its own.
2. Can it be a person as long as it depends on the body functions of another person?
3. If you say ‘yes’ to 2, how can/do you split the ‘rights’ both persons have?
That is a serious, complicate discussion and for a woman who carries an unwanted fetus, a very intimate and personal one. As men who will never get into that situation should we judge on it at all?
There are also some valuable big religions/philosophies on this earth who do not go with that Christian concept of person at birth at all. To them a person is something that has consciousness. In Buddhist lecture a child receives a souls some 6 weeks after birth. Some Hindi believes are also in that direction.
Anybody who has an absolute stand on that issue is not asking the right questions, in my view. Abortion is a difficult question and decision and to take a stand as someone not affected is not fair.
BTW – I know several women who aborted a fetus. I never met one who took it lightly.
r’giap,
I am distressed to hear that you are returning to hospital. I know you will receive the best of care (it’s France after all) and please remember that your friends here are thinking of you.
R’giap,
Love and support and best wishes – will be thinking of you.
Posted by: Hamburger | Sep 3 2008 19:44 utc | 49
@ 47
As men who will never get into that situation should we judge on it at all?
No, no, and NO. Have your opinions if you must, but not dominion over women’s bodies.
Abortion is a difficult question and decision
Not always a difficult decision and most emphatically not always a tragic, PTSD-inducing experience.
Posted by: Hamburger | Sep 3 2008 19:55 utc | 50
rick, to clarify what i ask are you saying is it is worthy of respect to define fetus as ‘child’ (even if that fetus is to include a 6 week old fetus). the term infant (infanticide) refers to newborns. i can respect a person who feels this way.
your response.
What the fuck is the difference between a fetus that is “six weeks old”,
so in other words, you do not respect a person who holds a different view than yours is worthy of respect? fyi, i don’t relate to a fetus, before a certain stage of developement as a child. i just don’t. nor do i think of these cells as being an infant which is relevant wrt your usage of the word ‘ infanticide’. no more than i would call a seed in my hand a tomato, tho i understand it could become one if i nurture it, feed it, and let it grow in my garden.
the comments at Dkos about Palin having a Down Syndrome baby were disgusting
there were way over a 1000 comments in that diary, i didn’t read them all nor do i know what you are referring to. would you like to make me responsible for all of them and then argue w/me concerning them?
wrt your argument about downs syndrome, i can’t argue against it, because it is not an argument
Perhaps I need to refresh my philosophical and mathematical logic courses from my university days for I could not follow annie’s logic in her attack on this statement. Annie ‘appeared’ (geez, quite a popular and handy word lately!), to read into this statement a personal attack on her view of what a fetus is or is not.
gee, i am reviewing my comment @24 and i am very sorry if it sounds like an attack to you. it doesn’t read that way to me, nor was i feeling like attacking when i wrote it. perhaps you can do some copy paste and be a little specific wrt what exactly you are referring to.
i guess my problem w/the ‘respectable’ ‘defense’ (because it is a defense to say, ‘it is perfectly respectable’) when what it appears you are really saying is ‘it is not respectable to hold the other view’.
perhaps i misunderstood the meaning and what it appeared to me was incorrect, but something tells me my origianl statement above is more accurate.
What the fuck is the difference between a fetus that is “six weeks old”,”” six weeks and 1/100 of a second old” or “5 weeks, 6 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes, 59 and 99/100 of a second old”?
1/100 of a second? infanticide? you’re barking up the wrong tree here. go pick a fight w/somebody else, the topic of my post was regarding respectability. it seems fairly clear your feeling are so strong you cannot afford to respect someone w/a view other than your own. sorry for that.
Posted by: annie | Sep 3 2008 20:59 utc | 52
whoops, it appears i didn’t completely delete my thought so i will finish it
wrt your argument about downs syndrome, i can’t argue against it… i wouldn’t think to make a determination about how any potential parent should address this issue, except myself. and luckily it is not one i will ever have to make.
Posted by: annie | Sep 3 2008 21:05 utc | 53
really thanks for your thoughts – this time i am a little frightened as the doctors have been so oblique where they were once clear & i hav an almost pathological fear of anaesthesia
& i am reminded of my father who died of tb at 42 whose least years were measured by ups & downs – that i feel today. & to not have been part of the medical model & now for some time it overwhelms my life & work. some days good. others not. & not a point where there are lines of demarcation
there is so much to do in this world
& then to witness that world as we are seeing it – degraded, defiled – they, those who rule from the roll of dollars think we have no memory – or they like to rub our noses in their filth
i mean, i don’t take one word or even breath that they take seriouslly & i am in another continent many thousand of miles away yet that political culture poisons my life, as it has done for the majority of my years
& copeland – the melville was more pertinent than you might imagine my friend
write, lizard write
Posted by: Anonymous | Sep 3 2008 21:53 utc | 54
hamburger thanks, absolutely.
he spectacle no longer has us guessing
to what degree we’re fucked
and language, like an unrepentant soldier,
has no use for sympathy, or love
so face the concrete with a knee in your back
and breathe the pain till you choke
cause all that remains of the world you knew
is the punchline to a horrible joke
breathe, and keep writing.
Posted by: annie | Sep 3 2008 22:20 utc | 55
they are not civically responsible – blaming someone else & they do not cultivate that civic responsibility – on the contrary they demolish it & that is why their institutions fear work so well …….to be immobile is not to be innocent
yes, the rigidity is just hideous.
r’giap, i hope tomorrow goes well for you.. i will be thinking of you and sending all my good wishes your way. sometimes it is really frightening thinking of what you are going thru.
Posted by: annie | Sep 3 2008 22:29 utc | 57
R’giap,
I hope you have a friend accompany you.
I’ve had my stomach checked for cancer – no surgery, just scoped and snipped. At the time I didn’t know the dr. was even checking for cancer – the trank drug was wonderful. I don’t know anything about your condition but just wanted to let you know that things can go well and be treatable. The U.S. freak show from afar is dispiriting, it obsesses/depresses me too. Remember that so many at MoA hold you in such esteem and value you.
I find comfort looking at the ultra deep field. Works with the sound off too. Best regards to you.
Posted by: Hamburger | Sep 3 2008 22:35 utc | 58
thanks for your tenderness
i might not exactly honour the english language – but what these fuckwits do to it – is hallucinatory – i heard one of their hacks repeat “compelling” 4 times in less than 2 minutes & that’s not the only word – they drag into their dread & despair
& like us all – thinking(&knowing) what the fuck cheney is up to
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 3 2008 23:01 utc | 59
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 3 2008 23:29 utc | 60
Hang in there r’giap & may our spirit be ever strong.
Posted by: jony_b_cool | Sep 3 2008 23:53 utc | 61
you think they cannot get any uglier but they do – they still think they have won the cultural war – these thieves & liars but they all seem to be made of plasticine – there is not a real bone in their body – so why should i be surprised that only shit comes out of their mouths – tonight at the convention is really without shame – their ugliest selves
what is peculiar but perhaps not – they all resemble in their way the stupidity & sheer venal aspect of spiro agnew. they are clearly dumb as all fuck. i don’t know what smart is – they keep saying it but i cannot see it – they are so potently dumb you think they would have to go to an institution of higher learning just to perfect that kid of dumbness, their smirks, physically, their manner of imitating their hidden heros – mussolini & franco
not a touch of grace in them, on the contrary there seems considerable clumps of carnality & crime. not so unusual for them – they are one & the same
the nature of power is a crude science
the nature of impoverished power is simply crude
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 4 2008 1:39 utc | 64
thanks am uncle & all – you keep me feeling the possibilities of my form. hopefully i will be back next week in my usual rage – if not i will have one of my colleagues contact b
seems a stupid thing to do before i am to go to hospital – watch a convention of cretins but i refuse to punish myself further – a guiliani would simply send me like a scud missile somewhere
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 4 2008 1:46 utc | 65
they are, after all is said & done, swine, as the good doctor thompson suggested, but pigs are quite wondrous beasts – these people are not – they are beasts
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 4 2008 2:15 utc | 66
Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative
–john stuart mill
looking foward to your return, r’giap. stay strong.
Posted by: b real | Sep 4 2008 2:39 utc | 67
r’giap, you are in my prayers tonight. Your kind words gave me strength when I needed it most a few months back. You will be in my prayers tonight. Your knowledge and insight is necessary for the work that needs to be done to make this world better for all. I am confident you will return stronger than ever.
Posted by: Rick | Sep 4 2008 3:47 utc | 68
comrades all,
did not want to disturb other threads – but i seem to haave some good new with my health – not absolutely conclusive but enough to lift the weight i have been feeling paralleling this world – the hospital allows me some 48hrs “permissions” (i am reminded a little of the orphanage) where they allow me to return to my studio for 48hrs – they want me to stay for the next two weeks
i’m feeling like it is possible to cross the bridge
your thoughts have meant a lot to me
thanking you
& at least i did not get to see the end of the republican convention – that would have sent me into a coma
so if i am not so present in the next two weeks – it is simply because i am in hospital without access to internet but hunger to read
& the work you have all done in just a few days!!!!
venceremos
little question was that the evil paul bremer with madame lash rice in libya?
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 6 2008 18:08 utc | 69
this is how i have been i think for the last two months
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 6 2008 21:40 utc | 74
@ remembereringgiap
Perchance, if you divulge the recipe, we could scrounge you up a treat of some ‘Stalinist Fruitcake’, a delightful pleasure of many old hands 😉
In lieu of such … for you mon ami
‘One of the magic centres Of the world;
One of the worlds’s
Dreaming places.
Ought to point the way
To the world.
Here lives the great music
Of humanity
The harmonisation of different
Histories,cultures, geniuses,
And dreams.
Ought to shine the world
And tell everyone
That history, though unjust
Can yield wiser outcomes.
And out of bloodiness
Can come love
Out of slave-trading
Can come a dance of souls
Out of division, unity;
Out of chaos, fiestas.’
An extract from Lines in Potentis by Ben Okri
Novelist and poet
Ben Okri – Lines in Potentis
Posted by: Outraged | Sep 6 2008 22:54 utc | 77
@ remembereringgiap
Perchance, if you divulge the recipe, we could scrounge you up a treat of some ‘Stalinist Fruitcake’, a delightful pleasure of many old hands 😉
In lieu of such … for you mon ami
‘One of the magic centres Of the world;
One of the worlds’s
Dreaming places.
Ought to point the way
To the world.
Here lives the great music
Of humanity
The harmonisation of different
Histories,cultures, geniuses,
And dreams.
Ought to shine the world
And tell everyone
That history, though unjust
Can yield wiser outcomes.
And out of bloodiness
Can come love
Out of slave-trading
Can come a dance of souls
Out of division, unity;
Out of chaos, fiestas.’
An extract from Lines in Potentis by Ben Okri
Novelist and poet
Ben Okri – Lines in Potentis
Posted by: Outraged | Sep 6 2008 23:02 utc | 78
foroutraged – brando tearing america apart with love – old interview 1973
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 6 2008 23:05 utc | 79
r’giap,
It’s great to have you back. You are lucky not to have seen the end of the republican convention. I quoted a few lines from you on the post I wrote about it, on my blog. –>McCain & Palin. God, Guns, and Country. That about sums it up. Repug delegates are pretty much the same as they ever were.
honoured yo be mentioned on your blog, dear friend
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 7 2008 1:32 utc | 81
rgiap, I am very pleased to read your hospital visit brought good news. MoA is just not the same without you. Hang in there bro, and don’t let the sound of your wheels drive you crazy 🙂
_______________________
The Fire
Our fires of Revolt were once lit by a spark
that exposed Their rich empire
as it led through the dark.
The battlecries of comrades who fell in the past
are still whispered in the wind
amidst the tear gas.
Through blood and sweatshops the Ruling turn Third-World to hell
while the strident screams are now silenced
by grave and prison cell.
They send slaves into fields, and myths into schools
as some trade their flames for shackles
encrusted with jewels.
And the few who dare to ignite and push forth the New Fire.
find only death or restraint
through a noose of barbed-wire.
BUT FORWARD THE FIRE!
All power to the Rebel that will not be pacified
By the Nazi and the Pig
as they guard their Master’s lies.
__________________________
By Comrade JMVogel
Victory lies to the Left!
Posted by: Juan Moment | Sep 7 2008 3:49 utc | 82
thanks
i return to hospital tommorrow morning – i’ve had a catheter(?)in my arm – don’t know if that was by inadvertence – but this little moment has meant i can go through everything here, last night – way for a few days & b is posting like an immense force on all manner of questions
the hospital experinece in france is exceptional – i cannot but underline both their attention & their rigour – but i am physically incapable of the limits of freedom that hospital quite rightly insist – so even with their care – i am most uncomfortable
however i’m uncomfortable watching the gonnoreah-ridden-golem blitzer – sanitising the empire’s crime & their stupidity on cnn – their ”commentors’ are so mind-dumbingly fucking moronic but again i’m reminded of the burlesque aspects – how everyone is a chief-of-this-&-that, calling themselves reporters when they are in fact typists, & their delusions of grandeur – when they’re working their sources on their blackberries. in brief fuck them all & their lies
& as b has been following closely – how the situation in pakistan will take the & us through another hell
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Sep 7 2008 15:57 utc | 84