Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 3, 2008
Terrorist Lists

Neither of North Korea nor Nelson Mandela should ever have ended up on a ‘terrorist list’, a dubious concept in itself. But it is revealing who got priority in delisting.

President George W. Bush announced Thursday the United States would lift some trade sanctions on North Korea and remove the communist nation from its terrorism list, a dramatic move that came after Pyongyang provided long-awaited details of its nuclear program.
North Korea off U.S. terrorist list, June 27, 2008

Officials say Nelson Mandela will be removed from U.S. terrorism watch lists under a new law waiving travel restrictions on the Nobel Peace Prize winner.

The measure signed by President George Bush Tuesday authorizes the U.S. State Department to waive travel restrictions on Mandela and other members of the African National Congress who were listed for activities they carried out against South Africa’s apartheid regime decades ago,
Mandela removed from U.S. terrorism list, July 1, 2008

I find such lists and the usually attached sanctions to be tools of either dumb people who are unable to understand another persons point of view, or as nefarious methods of coercion on issues that have zero to do with the stated ‘terrorist’ cause.

As the U.S. Congress (on order from AIPAC) now even sees content neutral satellite TV providers like NileSat and ArabSat as ‘terrorist entities, the last point seems to be the prevalent one.

Comments

US Contractor Leads Torture Training in Mexico

Exactly one day after George Bush signed the first year of the $1.6 billion Plan Mexico into law–giving Mexican military and police US training, armament, and resources–videos surfaced showing Mexican police undergoing torture training in León, Guanajuato. The torture training is directed by a British man from an unidentified US private security company.
The videos show the English-speaking contractor directing and participating in the torture of members of the Special Tactical Group (GET in its Spanish initials) of the León municipal police force during a 160-hour training over twelve days in April 2006. Alvar Cabeza de Vaca, the Secretary of Public Security in León, says the participants volunteered to be tortured as part of the training.
In one video, the unidentified contractor drags a GET officer through a puddle of his own vomit as punishment for failure to complete a training exercise.
In a second video, GET officers squirt mineral water up the nose of another officer, a torture technique commonly utilized by Mexican police. The man’s head is also shoved into a hole which supposedly contains rats and feces:
Leon city Police Chief Carlos Tornero told the AP that the English-speaking man in the videos is a contractor from a private US security firm. Tornero refused to elaborate on the man’s identity, details about the US company, and who contracted the company.
The government’s response has been to defend the program, attack the media for reporting on the videos, and deny the illegality of torture.

(not related)
swans: Sharp Reflection Warranted: Nonviolence in the Service of Imperialism

Posted by: b real | Jul 3 2008 19:01 utc | 1

Smells like Blackwater Spirit: Jesus’ Private Mercenaries.

Posted by: Diogenes | Jul 3 2008 21:09 utc | 2

It should be obvious to everyone that the US is far and away the worlds greatest sponser of terrorism.
since the Soviet collapse they haven’t even had any competition. The opperation to destroy the Soviet installed government in Afghanistan will stand as the largest most expensive terror plot ever whether you call them freedom fighters or not. Invading a non-threatening state as a matter of choice could also be considered a terrorist act. If you call “shock and awe” and the aftermath terror that would make my statement about Afganistan incorrect and bring every war of imperial conquest into the equation.

Posted by: Sgt Dan | Jul 3 2008 23:09 utc | 3

It’s not just a problem with your Congress, the fucktard in 10 Downing Street has gone and banned Hezbollah.

Posted by: blowback | Jul 4 2008 0:00 utc | 4

MOA’s should know from list’s eh? however, since no one bothered to reply or comment I had no idea if anyone benefited from the last time I posted this, being as only my ‘evil twin’ commented on it. All that aside, I really think many would get an idea of how these things often work on a micro/macro level by listening to this insightful and entertaining interview. But you know, ymmv…
It’s quite obvious commenting has drastically falling off, it happens, blogs breath…but has readership too?

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 4 2008 1:36 utc | 5

It’s quite obvious commenting has drastically falling off, it happens, blogs breath…but has readership too?
sitemeter says some 20% less pageviews. I am posting too much nonsense?

Posted by: b | Jul 4 2008 3:46 utc | 6

remember it’s a holiday for many – four day weekend for the lucky. seasonal elements also affect traffic. here the days are longer, the weather warmer, & there’s just so much going on in meatspace that cuts down on internet time. however, recent visits aren’t really off by much over the past month. maybe if more readers also worked on becoming content producers – that is, linking to material they find interesting or that adds to something already posted here? for myself, i don’t always have any comments of substance to offer on many of the posted threads, so i share stuff i’ve found interesting/intriguing/infuriating in my web travels.

Posted by: b real | Jul 4 2008 3:58 utc | 7

I read almost every word of every post. This is the best reading I do every day. Uncle, you are terrific. Wish you were part of the community here in Tucson.
B? Nonsense? Hardly! *lol* You are awesome!
Thanks guys and girls. You are all beautiful and wonderful and enlightening to me.

Posted by: Jake | Jul 4 2008 4:11 utc | 8

ditto, Jake.
if the site meter is low it’s probably because we’re spectators on a long train telling each other what the disaster looks like out of our particular little windows–not something people who want to stay sane necessarily seek out.
from my window i see Obomb proselytizing faith-based initiatives. the sigh i hear isn’t the hiss of brakes slowing down the train, but the grim resignation of the gasping masses.
b: never nonsense. this forum is so well-reasoned it seems to repel shallow instigators like DEET keeps the bloods suckers away.

Posted by: Lizard | Jul 4 2008 6:17 utc | 9

Tonight the sky was laced with contrails and mares tails like cold blue marble,
surrounding another lapiz lazuli marble, if you’ve ever lain on the grass with
legs up in the air on a warm summer’s day in the tall grass and daisies, doing
your salamba sirsasana and gazing calmly up at the sky, walking on the clouds.
A bruha in Tucson once taught me to make clouds evaporate with my mind, we were
up in some arroyo out by Ajo, seated by a small spring, and as each cloud would
pop up over the canyon rim, we’d fire mental laser beams until it dissolved away.
I don’t think she was really teaching me how to zap clouds, as much as to notice
them, and that’s come in handy out on the open water with cats paws on the waves,
that ‘wet scent’, for lack of a better description, long before the storm clouds
pile on. And it’s come in handy in the 3Wd, at night, when all the stars come out,
and I mean all the stars, and you realize how cocooned in cages we are in
our western society, oblivious to night creatures outside our window, or the dew,
or the rustle of leaves as the hissing snow gently falls in huge clots in spring,
or frankly, everything, if you’ve ever spent a whole summer in the wilderness.
Which brings me to “bonus malus“, and no, that’s not Latin for “porn video”. It’s
a user tariff employed in France to regulate large SUV’s, and being expanded to
other forms of social engineering, … not like everything we do in the US isn’t
already bonus malus‘d up the collective ass, in other, massive consumption directives, massive deficits, massive corporate tax incentives, massive Defense
“not a budget line item”, as Reagan was taught to mime, another $156B poof! poof!,
and they’re already talking about another “economic stimulus” loan of our future
taxes to ourselves, 50% origination fee, at interest on our share of around 28%,
so you gotta wonder if this is where a bank credit card bailout will come from,
and who will pay the nursing home fees when they evict us out of our hovels.
So the question becomes, if bonus malus is employed by the States now for
social engineering, and bonus malus reaming continues from the Fed, just
how many bonus’ can our asses malus before we lose consciousness?
So, this:

STATE OF OKLAHOMA
2nd Session of the 51st Legislature (2008)
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION 1089
By: Key
AS INTRODUCED
A Joint Resolution claiming sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States over certain powers; serving notice to the federal government to cease and desist certain mandates; and directing distribution.
WHEREAS, the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States reads as follows:
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”; and
WHEREAS, the Tenth Amendment defines the total scope of federal power as being that specifically granted by the Constitution of the United States and no more; and WHEREAS, the scope of power defined by the Tenth Amendment means that the federal government was created by the states specifically to be an agent of the states; and
WHEREAS, today, in 2008, the states are demonstrably treated as agents of the federal government; and
WHEREAS, many federal mandates are directly in violation of the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States; and
WHEREAS, the United States Supreme Court has ruled in New York v. United States, 112 S. Ct. 2408 (1992), that Congress may not simply commandeer the legislative and regulatory processes of the states; and
WHEREAS, a number of proposals from previous administrations and some now pending from the present administration and from Congress may further violate the Constitution of the United States.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND THE SENATE OF THE 2ND SESSION OF THE 51ST OKLAHOMA LEGISLATURE:
THAT the State of Oklahoma hereby claims sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States over all powers not otherwise enumerated and granted to the federal government by the Constitution of the United States.
THAT this serve as Notice and Demand to the federal government, as our agent, to cease and desist, effective immediately, mandates that are beyond the scope of these constitutionally delegated powers.
THAT a copy of this resolution be distributed to the President of the United States, the President of the United States Senate, the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives, the Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate of each state’s legislature of the United States of America, and each member of the Oklahoma Congressional Delegation.

Anyway, first, kill your TV and PC! Then go walk the clouds on your morning salamba sirsasana. Trust me, this epoch will all be over, very soon.

Posted by: Apestan Zappatos | Jul 4 2008 7:01 utc | 10

…and before you destroy those pricey screens may the commentary of destruction be provided by such luminaries as Dan Rather

Posted by: Lizard | Jul 4 2008 8:00 utc | 11

I read almost every word of every post. This is the best reading I do every day. Uncle, you are terrific. Wish you were part of the community here in Tucson.

I couldn’t have said it better Jake, although I would have written ‘Darwin, Australia’.
Same with this line:

B? Nonsense? Hardly! *lol* You are awesome!

How very true.
Whilst there is hardly a day going by where I don’t check in at least once, I tend to not comment a lot. For a variety of reasons I guess.
The quality of b’s posts and the comments are top of the league, written it seems by people with a huge horizon and a wealth of knowledge. Quite often I am amazed how much interesting historic or otherwise useful details are presented in a single thread, would be great to meet some of you mooners. Anyway, enough of this back slapping and get on with it.
The United States were settled with methods close to genocide, North American Indians almost wiped out. Ever since then, its violent birth, has the States history been one of military escapades, killing and maiming countless innocent civilians either through indifference, or worse, intent. From the Philippines, over Hiroshima, Nagasaki, to Vietnam, right through to today’s murderous campaign in the Middle East, the US military has been one heavy duty slaughter machine, or may I say, terrorist organisation.
So, do lists of designated ‘terrorist orgs’ make sense? They do, but only if the US military is listed near the top. HAMAS might have killed hundreds, maybe thousands, figures dwarfed by the millions of victims the US military has churned out.
Going by the US’s own definition of terrorism, as per Federal Criminal Code, Chapter 113B,

…activities that involve violent… or life-threatening acts… that are a violation of the criminal laws of […] any State and… appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; …

almost every US administration has been a major terrorist organisation, with full scale war and area bombings being its choice of weapon, although other means of terrorising civilians, such as outright torture of prisoners or inhumane and crippling sanctions are also getting a good work out. Full spectrum terror.
Unless the US includes itself in its catalogue of bad guys, the list will be as adequate as a list of cold countries not including Iceland.

Posted by: Juan Moment | Jul 4 2008 9:39 utc | 12

surely, these terrorists are listed, no?

Posted by: jcairo | Jul 4 2008 10:05 utc | 13

B, without you I’d be drooling in front of MSNBC all day. Well that’s not quite true. But this is my first stop almost every day as soon as I’m conscious and the last stop before I lose consciousness for what ever reason.

Posted by: Diogenes | Jul 4 2008 14:47 utc | 14

uncle
i would like to say a word here – we are all following a whole series of events – tensely. fatigue is a natural element of that concentration
there have been a number of moments since the beginning when either commenting or viewing have dropped. this is neither the fault of b not the quality of the material commented & linked. on the contrary perhaps we are sometimes too specialist for some. i think our very multiplicity of opinions & positions are a sign of health not of sickness or of echo. i think sometimes people seek consensus – & we at the moon are not in that business
i have not posted as often as i’d like because i have been in hospital a number of times in the last months – but there is not a moment when i neglect my place here or of the work of others. even when i’m in hospital my administrator/colleague prints out material from the moon
as far as information goes – it is my first & last source. both my work & sickness make an economoc use of information necessary – i do not have time to wander but when i do whether it is to dkosfiredoglakehuffingtonpost etc etc – i am dissapointed
only counterpunch has some of the weight that we have here
i don’t know how b feels but i find nothing he post useless including his love of cranes – ever but i could understand that fatigue affects him like the rest of us
we are not evangalist – & it is not our business to whore our positions merely speak them, argue them, communicate them
i repeat what i have sd from the beginning – the moon is a harsh mistress – but she is above all a gift

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 4 2008 17:52 utc | 15

This is a place of solace, understanding, intelligence, and above all, compassion. I agree with ‘giap, in that this is a gift — of independence for ourselves from mainstream western thought and action. Let us celebrate that, if nothing else.
I do not write much here because I would rarely have anything to add to be heard above the din of excellence here. It is a daily stop and sometimes when pressed my only stop. A kernel of sanity in a garden of thorns. Thank you B, Uncle, and everyone else. As always, far more receive what you give so freely and never say thank you, but we are thankful nonetheless.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 5 2008 0:42 utc | 16

This is a place of solace, understanding, intelligence, and above all, compassion. I agree with ‘giap, in that this is a gift — of independence for ourselves from mainstream western thought and action. Let us celebrate that, if nothing else.
I do not write much here because I would rarely have anything to add to be heard above the din of excellence here. It is a daily stop and sometimes when pressed my only stop. A kernel of sanity in a garden of thorns. Thank you B, Uncle, and everyone else. As always, far more receive what you give so freely and never say thank you, but we are thankful nonetheless.

Posted by: Pyrrho | Jul 5 2008 0:42 utc | 17

MoA’s regular posters contribute great things. And I come to Moon every day to read. I feel close to all of you, and respect all of you so much. I’m trying to synthesize a stack of stories about an inch high, for the next essay on my own blog, and I find myself in a state of mental exhaustion these days. I’m one of only a handful of Americans who has the nerve to post here; and I’ve got to say that this is probably the saddest 4th of July ever. Well no, the summers in the 60s, after the assassinations were worse.
No more KOS for me. Besides MoA, Counterpunch is good, Larisa Alexandrovna too. The Nation, Harper’s Magazine, Lewis H. Lapham’s Quarterly, and The New Yorker are worth pulling off the magazine shelf. I’m a substitute teacher, and now off for the summer, and have a line of books to read….finishing Orwell’s Homage To Catalonia, a new translation of “The History” of Thucydides, and lastly there’s that tome by Vincent Bugliosi, The Prosecution Of George W. Bush For Murder.
And poetry. Get your hands on a copy of blue hour by Carolyn Forché if you can. A lyrical masterpiece that will blow your mind.

Posted by: Copeland | Jul 5 2008 2:43 utc | 18

our terrarists

Posted by: denk | Jul 5 2008 4:55 utc | 19

Uncle Scam at 5, I did not understand your link to metafilter.
B, no way.
——
I think at the start of the internet there was a lot of hope for dissident or minor opinions of whatever getting some kind of grip. And that has not happened, if anything things have gotten worse. Sounding off on the internet is not a substitute for political action. Complaining to the void actually helps no one, though it may educate readers, does I think (duh, otherwise I’d be on the terrace jawing about the price of socks or some stupid thing), and actually does more (not for now), but it is basically a public opinion, marketing thing. That has bite but is hard to measure; not up to expectations anyway.
For me, the 9/11 story was emblematic. At the start many ppl questioned the official version, and some excellent opinion, speculation and investigation was posted on the internet – take you pick, Hopsicker, Killtown, Holmgren (sp), many others. They either faded away – they had done what they could with the tools available (mostly internet) – or quit in disgust – or survived as stubborn, but became less active. The debunkers of questioners who made money and became public figures were Johnny come latelies – David Griffin, Steven Jones, the family survivors, a few others.
Now, sites like 9/11 blogger resemble the usual we-have-an issue-to push in US politics.
Rallies, meets, websites, stickers, T shirts, heckling in public, small dues to like minded organizers, recommendations to vote for Cynthia McKinney (the only 9/11 questioner). They might as well be activating for new or different tariffs on bananas (those poor Guatemalans), better health insurance, or stellar rights for whomever. The movement (NOW so-called) has become normalized, conventionalized, one more strand in US politics. Very fringe, or too cool, depending on the audience, the day, etc. The ‘heroes’ are establishment figures – ppl who have published books and receive good money for public speaking, are applauded, whose jokes are laughed at. They go home having earnt some money to pay the mortgage.
Results? Zero.
9/11 bloffer (genuine typo not corrected.)

Posted by: Tangerine | Jul 5 2008 16:15 utc | 20

Thanks for the bloffer link Tangerine.
I did a quick read; he mentions several bits of evidence that ultimately point back to a powerful inside force, perhaps seated inside the CIA or at least using part of that org as an operational arm.
And he is right that no single govt admin or agency can be blamed for stuff like JFK or 9/11, since the main op is ongoing through the decades. A growing number of individuals have been planted at various levels to make things happen, and obviously the organisation has grown enormously in size and complexity, to the point where it is less important to keep it secret.
The sad part, aside from the very fact that such a hidden and evil op exists, is that so many of its victims refuse to recognise it. That is really an essential part of the op – news media etc.
My own frame of mind now is that all necessary proof of crime is in place, and whether convictions and punishment are brought to pass or not (quite unlikely), the peoples job is to simply recognise that the system is a sham and act accordingly.
Back on topic: We are living under and voting for a terrorist govt. No need to get all upset about it – it is a simple fact and you can participate or not.

Posted by: rapt | Jul 6 2008 23:38 utc | 21

copeland: yes! carolyn forche’s blue hour is truly stunning. her language in ON EARTH is a brilliantly sustained effort of keeping language invigorated, and she does it alphabetically! not many poets can keep me interested in a long poem. William Carlos Williams is the only other poet that comes to mind.
i’ve been rereading Diane DiPrima’s revolutionary letters, and considering this collection was first published in 1971, her poetic and often practical “letters” are shockingly applicable to this sad state of affairs we are witnessing. (i use the word witness because “the poet as witness” is a central concept behind Carolyn Forche’s approach to poetry, as reflected in a great anthology called AGAINST FORGETTING; a collection of international poetry from the long list of atrocities that littered the 20th century)
anyway, for a taste of DiPrima, REVOLUTIONARY LETTER #10

These are transitional years and the dues
will be heavy.
Change is quick but revolution
will take awhile.
America has not even begun as yet.
This continent is seed.

…or REVOLUTIONARY LETTER #59

Look to the cities, see how “urban renewal”
tears out the slums from the heart of town
forces expendable poor to the edges, to some
remote & indefensible piece of ground:
Hunters Point, Lower East Side, Columbia Point
out of sight, out of mind, & when bread riots come
(conjured by cutting welfare, raising prices)
the man wont hesitate to raze those ghettoes
& few will see, & fewer will object.

thanks again Copeland for bringing CF into the fray of MoA

Posted by: Lizard | Jul 7 2008 5:02 utc | 22