Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 10, 2008
Obama The Fraud

October 24, 2007:

"To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies."
link

That was then. Now:

The Senators then voted for "cloture" on the underlying FISA bill — the procedure that allows the Senate to overcome any filibusters — and it passed by a vote of 72-26. Obama voted along with all Republicans for cloture.
link

It is now obvious that the guy is a fraud.

The democratic primaries were looking quite enthusiastic with a record number of voters and plenty of small donations. Obama is doing his very best to change that for the general election. To what end I do not know.

Does he really believe to pick up more voters on the right than he is losing on the left? If so, I think he is wrong.

Prediction: Voter participation in the general election will be at a record low.

Comments

Think you’re right b. It was almost guaranteed for a politician from Chicago. Something in the water there.

Posted by: dacorilitter | Jul 10 2008 4:32 utc | 1

Democratic activists, especially progressives, are despondent over this about-face by Obama. But added to this is despair over the sellout on FISA, orchestrated by the Democratic leaders in Congress. The institutional corruption and complicity has never been rubbed like salt into a wound, as it has been by the 69 to 28 vote in the Senate. It is just so contemptible.
Obama also seems to be shape-shifting on NAFTA. This could put the Dems traditional blue collar votes at risk for November. Unsettling and alienating this demographic could easily cost him the election

Posted by: Copeland | Jul 10 2008 5:22 utc | 2

I’ve sent the last cent I’m going to send to Obama. I’ll hold my nose and vote for him, but I’m not going to work for his election or donate to his cause.
The FISA capitulation by the Democratic Congress is a national shame.

Posted by: Scott | Jul 10 2008 5:26 utc | 3

DOW SHEDS -236.77 IN MOURNING OVER LEGISLATIVE BETRAYAL OF ELECTORATE
The Dow wasn’t the only one in mourning today, after 110th Congress abjured from protecting our Constitutional 4th Amendment rights against unreasonable search and seizure. Big Brother was born right on schedule, in 1984, Reaganauts nee PC Spybox, and today Congress granted Cherthoff’s Department of Homeland Security a permanent license to spy. It was foretold, pre-ordained, kizmit, all in our Neo-Soviet stars.
But blaming FEMA for necropsy trailers in New Orleans? Congress sure sank to a new low! FEMA had originally developed all the technical knowledge base we use today in dealing with emergency preparations and in their aftermath. FEMA once was what NASA once was! Then the Bushites created Department of Homeland Security after the 9/11 false flag ops, subsuming FEMA and FEMA’s budget into GogMagog of Cherthoff’s DHS.
My g-d! But they couldn’t let it rest there. No, they had more dirty work to do!
They overturned the AF refueling tanker award to Northrup-Airbus, clearly the best bid, clearly the best platform, but Boeing, the imperion of double-dipping backdoor Defense connivance and collusion, pulled its strings, called in its chits, and most likely will get the contract awarded to them. Recall, the CEO of Boeing and his AF procurement dolly friend were convicted and went to prison colluding over a lease version of this contract, and you can ask across the board, in any Defense program for any service, you’ll find some commanding officer who awarded a contract to Boeing then suddenly retired and working for Boeing managing that same contract!
Why do you think average American savings rate is negative 3%!!! Huge budget and off-budget deficits deriving entirely from Defense con-tracting!!
A black budget hole so gynormous you could fly a C-17 Globemaster III through it!!
So the tally? Congress voted to allow the Federal Department of Homeland Security to spy on citizens today, they swept the Katrina fiasco under the rug, along with $60B they appropriated, now clearly bilked, without laying it at Department of Homeland Security, (dare I say it? Israeli-American), Cherthoff’s feet, and overturned a rightly executed government contract, in favor of the Boeing Mafia.
If there was any doubt you ever had that these NeoZi.con vampiroyals might not be the ‘best of the worst choice’, today you saw the fangs, saw your blood dripping, $100B’s in taxes and your kid’s estates, stolen in broad daylight, live on CSPAN.
“Cowardice, opportunism, and indecision inhabit a realm beyond the reach of law.” Timothy Noah
To which I’d paraphrase, ‘Cowardice, opportunism, and indecision inhabit a realm beyond the ballot box, irredeemably lost in the flickering pale of Big Brother.’
You might as well tatoo ‘Treblenka’ on your arm and sew your ball sack to your ass, so the NeoZi.con’s can’t make it into a silk-lined purse for your few gold teeth.

Posted by: Syd Lamont | Jul 10 2008 5:28 utc | 4

…And Hillary voted no. During the primary, I called her a hippy and less likely to want to build lots of new nuke plants and gonna pull out of Iraq and just acting tough on Iran and scary to the medical industry. But, the left was having a moment – I felt it too, and I actually don’t think I’m giving it up right yet either, since they have done a conservative thing as the centrist conservative party that they now are, whoopie. They don’t want to join the RNC in the hall of shame by openly turning off what the RNC says is a good source of intel, then have something go boom.
There are still a lot of cards on the table, and only citizen action can get them played right. The right to lifers couldn’t have gotten a vote they wanted on abortion in 1979, and the no war restore the constitutionalists will have to wait to restore their rights in law; they will have to organize and work, vote and plot, everyday, forever, to push congress to action, put civilized people on the supreme court, reduce corporate governmental control.
Vote for the less insane, and then get to work I say, citizens, democracy is no less easy than revolution..

Posted by: bellgong | Jul 10 2008 6:33 utc | 5

Vote for the less insane, and then get to work I say, citizens, democracy is no less easy than revolution..
there fixed that for ya…lol
Indeed Lamont, ‘small government’, but bigger brother eh? And Cherthoff as Skeletor
Would that C-17 Globemaster III, be with or without the freighted 5.5 tons of SENATOR AID/ C.I.A. cocaine?
INQUIRING MINDS AND ALL THAT…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 10 2008 6:48 utc | 6

Hillary could vote according to her own reasons, being out of the race and no longer being expertly advised by parasites who think politics is marketing. Obama on the other hand is now the precious nominee and subject not only to own caution but probably expert bum advice. Democrats as a whole have not been effective opposition and now are the feckless majority. Their success is due to failure of Bush and the republicans and not to what opportunities they have created or taken advantage of. So when they get in with their super majority, it is going to take a long time before they will stop getting spooked by the repugs and their own shadows.

Posted by: YY | Jul 10 2008 8:30 utc | 7

Barack Obama Responds to Iran Missile Test
rising tensions but who benefits?

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 10 2008 8:31 utc | 8

As much as I agree that nuclear proliferation is bad, why is it I think that Iran having a nuke and ability to deliver will bring about stability and peace as never before in the Mid-East.

Posted by: YY | Jul 10 2008 9:53 utc | 9

@4 – thanks for that closing ‘graph
i’m eating brekkie 😉

Posted by: jcairo | Jul 10 2008 11:09 utc | 10

Not giving up yet either. All I have to do is look at McSame. Obama wasn’t the only one. There were plenty of turncoats. Webb!
I don’t fool myself that any of them care about us though.

Posted by: beq | Jul 10 2008 11:48 utc | 11

My wife’s sister’s daughter, a young woman in her early twenties, is visiting here (U.S.) this week from South America. She asked me if Obama represented change I could believe in (showing her awareness of this advertising slogan). No, not really, I replied. On the one hand, an apparent willingness on the part of many Americans to vote for a man with some African ancestry is a sign of real social progress. More than –
My wife’s sister’s daughter, an intelligent and educated you woman, is currently visiting the U.S. from a South American country. She asked if Obama was change I could believe in (showing that she is aware of the use of this phrase as an advertising slogan). I said, not really. America needs to reform, to repent, to face the truth about how it acts towards the rest of the world – and a politician who wants to withdraw troops from Iraq, and yet send more to Afghanistan, is Hillary Clinton with a bit more melanin and a Y chromosome.
I hardly ever lie to this particular niece. She can stand hearing stuff like this because she’s a foreigner. Unlike the American public, she can handle the truth.
With regards to which – Uncle $cam, you know perfectly well who benefits from “rising tensions” – the acronym I am trying to promote is “the MICFiC” – the
M ilitary
I ndustrial
C ongressional
Fi nancial
C orporate Media Complex –

and I wrote this slogan myself: “A conspiracy to use, abuse, and confuse the people – to ‘milk, shear, and slaughter the sheeple’, figuratively speaking – except the slaughter is literal.

\Senator Obama, per se, is a man who has always said he wants to withdraw combat troops from Iraq and send more to Afghanistan. Barack is basically Hillary with more melanin and a Y chromosome.

Posted by: mistah charley, ph.d. | Jul 10 2008 12:05 utc | 12

Someday people will start to realize that if voting could change anything it would be illegal. Just wreck the economy instead.

Posted by: …—… | Jul 10 2008 12:46 utc | 13

I can forgive Congress critters for voting wrongly on legislation in areas that they have no personal expertise, such as energy or agriculture, etc. But Obama’s expertise is as a Constitutional lawyer! He knew exactly what he was voting for; no one pulled any wool over his eyes.
In another area I have been very wary of Obama, and that is his position on Russia. Now why would he comment that he is going to be even harder on Russia than George Bush has been? What the hell has Russia done to the US? If anything, we are busily provoking them for some insane reason. I grew up in the early years of the Cold War and don’t relish a return to it.

Posted by: Ensley | Jul 10 2008 13:12 utc | 14

Change You Can Believe In.
It’s all so very, very believable…
Calling these nobodies Neo-zis or Vampiroyals is giving them more interest and colour than they deserve. There’s no conspiracy other than the one quivering right in front of us all like a pile of fresh-spilled guts on hot concrete: what you get when you mix weakness, greed, corruption and most of all, titanic mediocrity.
Btw, nice to see you again, Mistah Charlie.

Posted by: Tantalus | Jul 10 2008 13:28 utc | 15

US elections are clearly false except for the money collecting and disbursing parts, or candidates would care about voting systems counted by people, Diebold, who don’t want to sell the printing part of touch screen methods though their cheaper printers for atms and cash registers work just fine.
The other big one, Sequoia, finessed us into the billions spent on the Help America Vote Act by deliberately using bad paper and allowing the confusing butterfly ballot.link Shouldn’t such info destroy Sequoia as a government contractor? Apparently not:Sequoia’s website
{Above lifted and a trifle added from my #75 on “Entitlement to Credit” thread.}
Note the brouhaha over NH fake Dem primary, Clinton beating Obama officially, smearing poll responders as racialist liars, yet Obama won in the rural – hand counted – districts, lost in the cities, whose optical scan cards were picked up by 2 Diebold guys in a van to be counted at headquarters. Diebold also counted much of Pennsylvania. (And even with paper ballots, once the sealed boxes are opened, ballots can disappear making paying for a recount a $ waste.)
It’s all professional wrestling, so Obama could have voted as he’d said he would, no loss. Personally think such flip flops are just to add confusion, anguish, drama – and more citizen money – to the spectacle. Still think will be President Gore.
Also find it very strange that subverting of Constitution is successfully sold as “Conservative”, but of course strange is normal and normative for decades now.

Posted by: plushtown | Jul 10 2008 13:33 utc | 16

re my 16, see Hannah K O’Luthlon’s very recent on OT 8-25 for Diebold probably swinging a vote on sales tax in AZ.

Posted by: plushtown | Jul 10 2008 14:03 utc | 17

MICFiC.. indeed..

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 10 2008 14:14 utc | 18

“professional wrestling”
Yup.

Posted by: beq | Jul 10 2008 14:27 utc | 19

“Prediction: Voter participation in the general election will be at a record low.”
Geezbuz, people, get a grip. This is going to be a big election, and the percentage of people outside of those who 1) read political blogs and 2) care about FISA approaches zero very quickly. Was it a bad call? Yes. We all agree. Now go about your business and let Obama get back to trying to win a general election.

Posted by: Jason | Jul 10 2008 14:47 utc | 20

mistah charley, ph.d (12) says “My wife’s sister’s daughter” = my niece

Posted by: Grammar | Jul 10 2008 15:07 utc | 21

Ensley @14
Zbigniew Brzezinski is the chief foreign policy advisor for Obama.
The GRAND CHESSBOARD
outlines his long-standing geo-political views.
Relevant quotes:
“In that context, how America ‘manages’ Eurasia is critical. Eurasia is the globe’s largest continent and is geopolitically axial. A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world’s three most advanced and economically productive regions. A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa’s subordination, rendering the Western Hemisphere and Oceania geopolitically peripheral to the world’s central continent. About 75 per cent of the world’s people live in Eurasia, and most of the world’s physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil. Eurasia accounts for 60 per cent of the world’s GNP and about three-fourths of the world’s known energy resources.” (p.31)
“Two basic steps are thus required: first, to identify the geostrategically dynamic Eurasian states that have the power to cause a potentially important shift in the international distribution of power and to decipher the central external goals of their respective political elites and the likely consequences of their seeking to attain them;… second, to formulate specific U.S. policies to offset, co-opt, and/or control the above…” (p. 40)

Posted by: billgalt | Jul 10 2008 15:11 utc | 22

Jason @ 20
Go about my business? Yessir, Mr Blackwater, Sir!
I don’t think so, mate.

Posted by: Tantalus | Jul 10 2008 15:17 utc | 23

A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa’s subordination
Gazprom Cozies Up to Libya

Gazprom activity in Libya is up. Gazprom CEO Alexey Miller met with leader of the Libyan revolution Muammar Qadhafi yesterday. They discussed the possibility of Gazprom’s buying up all of the oil and natural gas produced by the Libyan state National Oil Co., “at competitive prices,” Miller promised, and setting up a joint enterprise to refine oil. Substantive negotiations are expected to be held before the end of the month. Gazprom may also receive fields by the end of the year that Naftogaz Ukrainy is now developing. Gazprom sources say the proposals were “assessed positively” in Libya.
Libya is in first place in Africa and fifth place in all of OPEC in the size of its proven oil reserves – 5.1 billion tons. Its gas reserves, 1.49 trillion cu. m., are the fourth largest in Africa. The country produces 80 million tons of oil (30 tons from National Oil Co.) and 11.7 cu .m of gas (10.5 billion cu. m. from National Oil Co.). A pipeline carries 8 billion cu. m. of gas to Italy annually, and 1 billion cu. m. is liquefied and sent to Spain. The remaining gas is consumed domestically.

Posted by: b real | Jul 10 2008 15:21 utc | 24

I trust I can rely on your vote?

Posted by: jcairo | Jul 10 2008 15:23 utc | 25

#21 Grammar,”‘My wife’s sister’s daughter’ = my niece”, true, but not as specific by a factor of 4.
Oh, and to Hannah K. O’Luthon, sorry for adding extra “l” in #17. Squirrelly me, or perhaps a Superman comics universe leftover.
And MICFiC is accurate, & fits on signs.

Posted by: plushtown | Jul 10 2008 15:28 utc | 26

Obama is playing for a spot for himself and his family in the bunker when the shit storms comes. seriously i don’t know what else to think anymore.
i was watching this vid criticizing Chomsky’s disheartening dismissal of 9-11 skeptics, using the linguistic stigmatizing fog-out term “conspiracy theory” and non-sequiturs to dodge descending into a substantive discussion.
so instead of stressing my brain capacity to figure out why one of the greatest, most critical minds of Amerikan empire is acting like just another gatekeeper, or why Obama has morphed into this other manifestation, this dangerous Obomb, i’m going to simply say they’re all playing for a spot in the bunker.

Posted by: Lizard | Jul 10 2008 15:58 utc | 27

@ Lizard #27, all near any gate are probably gatekeepers. As in the former used bookstore manager’s 1984, findable opposition to Big Brother is run by Big Brother. I don’t think Chavez is opposition, nor Iranian leadership, nor Putin or even China’s nasty owners. Doesn’t mean same won’t be betrayed also, i.e. not let into bunkers or avoid genetically specific bio-weapons directed against their loyal populations, just that they also seem likely to follow until they die.

Posted by: plushtown | Jul 10 2008 19:24 utc | 28

@21, no it’s my wife’s niece.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 10 2008 19:39 utc | 29

A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa’s subordination
stupid yes, but probably not in the top-ten of the most stupid things ever said about Africa.

Posted by: jony_b_cool | Jul 10 2008 19:47 utc | 30

“titanic mediocrity”
It’s a nice phrase, truly. “Towering smallness” is my favorite.
You guys so faithfully echo the fevered Right.
Funny, that.

Posted by: pat | Jul 10 2008 19:58 utc | 31

Obama is playing for a spot for himself and his family in the bunker when the shit storms comes.
That’s a very interesting way to look at it lizard, and may be more true than we know. Perhaps all of them know more than us lowly plebs and are preparing for their own. However, if it isn’t literally a bunker, then I’m reminded of the equivalent of gated communities, but more in terms of the style of the Soviet Union, as in zones. Much like Moscow was a city in a preferred zone. A methodical socialization zone. To use Erving Goffman’s term a “total institution” . A total institution is one in which it is, designed to describe a society that is socially isolated but still provides for all the needs of its members. Therefore, total institutions have the ability to resocialize people either voluntarily or involuntarily. For example, the following would be considered as total institutions: prisons, the military, mental hospitals and convents, shopping malls, cruse ships, guided tours, college campuses, casino’s etc etc… (Schaefer & Lamm, 1992: 113).
Goffman lists four characteristics of such institutions:
* All aspects of life are conducted in the same place and under the same single authority.
* Each phase of a members daily activity is carried out in the immediate company of others. All members are treated alike and all members do the same thing together.
* Daily activities are tightly scheduled. All activity is superimposed upon the individual by a system of explicit formal rules.
* A single rational plan exists to fulfill the goals of the institution…
in a word, slavery, but where some slaves have more privileges than others.. Kinda like the Indian prison system where the jailers/guards/enforcers are also the prisoners, only with power of choice, and amenities of food, space, accommodations etc..

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 10 2008 20:09 utc | 32

Are we again with voting for the less evil of two evil lessers? I had hoped for better. But I still chose the disorganzied semi-corrupt bumbling of the Democrats tripping over each other and their own tongues to the swift, predatory, well oiled inhuman machine of the Neo-kkk-lowns that are in the White House now. But its a beggars choice. We hoi polloi have so little to chose from. But Obama did have a choice to vote no on FISA. Why didn’t he?
I want a fukkin answer!

Posted by: Diogenes | Jul 10 2008 20:26 utc | 33

or like sheep, sheepdogs and Judas goats.

Posted by: plushtown | Jul 10 2008 20:26 utc | 34

Diogenes – as Harry Belafonte would most likely put it ’cause he is a f**n sell out!’I used to read how the danger of the Change wagon was not the message per say but the energizing quality it had on people’s faith in themselves and their communities to act politically – that is a dangerous thing to put in people’s mind. Much like what IMF experts analyzed as the problem with 3rd world people – the danger of unrealistic expectations.
One of Obi’s major asset is the claimed image varnish that he will bring to the White House. But based on the negative reactions to some of his FP speeches – the sinking image may continue DESPITE the power of his baby afro so long as he delivers the same ol’ short-sighted selfish policies that leaves nothing for anyone else but crumbs.
Obi’s about face on soo many issues is certainly slapping the dreamers awake and increasing his chances of winning by bringing the political game back to square one. Check mate.

Posted by: BenIAM | Jul 10 2008 20:49 utc | 35

As much as I agree that nuclear proliferation is bad, why is it I think that Iran having a nuke and ability to deliver will bring about stability and peace as never before in the Mid-East.

How true!

Posted by: IntelVet | Jul 10 2008 21:21 utc | 36

Anna Missed never thought that Lang was shoveling shit half the time.
And shoveling is dignifying it.

Posted by: pat | Jul 10 2008 22:39 utc | 37

I was, I said was, a big Obama supporter. That was because I thought he was a man who believed in something. It now seems what he believed was that he could pull a three card monte on me. Which he did. I do not know what he stands for, that is I don’t know what card is what. Not being a gambler, I’m not going to gamble on him. Nor will I gamble on the other guy. Guess I’ll go fishing on the first Tuesday of November. If the fish disappoint me by not biting at least I won’t be a fish biting for something I don’t believe in.

Posted by: Llyonnoc | Jul 10 2008 23:26 utc | 38

speaking of obama, over at kos, the top front page post (not to be confused w/the rec list) at the moment is..Bush Pressures Berlin Over Obama Visit
obama was/is going to campaign @ the Brandenburg Gate! heavens! the plot thickens.

But then, out of nowhere, either on July 6th or July 7th, the German Chancellor’s office leaked its sudden disapproval to the press, calling into question not only the choice of the Brandenburg Gate but also whether it was appropriate at all for a candidate to campaign abroad — even after the German ambassador’s efforts to secure a public event.
The Chancellor insisted that the Brandenburg Gate has “only been used on special occasions for political events, and until now has only been offered to elected presidents.”
Let’s leave aside for a moment that the Dalai Lama, hardly an elected head of state, spoke to a cheering crowd of 25,000 before the Brandenburg Gate less than six weeks ago.
Leaving aside that other German political leaders, from various political parties, including the Chancellor’s own center-right CDU, were puzzled and even laughed at her sudden insistence on the sacrosanctness of the Gate.
Leaving aside that the Gate is used for countless public carnivals, topless “Love Parades,” and a couple weeks ago played host to 600,000 drunken sports fans watching the European soccer championship on jumbo screens.
Leaving aside that Chancellor Angela Merkel herself visited Bush in Washington in 2003 — two and a half years before she became Chancellor. “Merkel knows,” the Berlin mayor snorted today, “how to campaign in foreign countries.” And: “She shouldn’t throw any stones while sitting in a glass house.”
Leaving all that aside, the questions remains:
Why now? What happened on July 7th?
The opening of the G-8 Summit in Japan.
The Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (roughly the equivalent of the Wall Street Journal) reported that an irritated Bush administration staffer approached the Chancellor’s foreign policy adviser Christoph Heusgen during the G-8 Summit and expressed his disapproval. The phrase used in the article is “angeblafft,” or “snapped at.”

frankly, i think lots of people will show up to vote.
i am really glad i don’t have a lot invested in this obama character. yes i like him etc etc bla bla, but this latest fisa thing. what can i say. had i been working door to door and sending him all my money, i’d feel ripped off. as it is, i just feel let down.

Posted by: annie | Jul 10 2008 23:48 utc | 39

And…..Karl Rove says “fuck you” to congress about appearing before congress under oath. Think Pelosi and the dems will persue that? NOT!

Posted by: ben | Jul 11 2008 0:00 utc | 40

But maybe that’s the point, Anna: Shoveling.

Posted by: pat | Jul 11 2008 0:09 utc | 41

pat, I can’t find that post by Anna Missed that you’re referring to. Is it on another thread?

Posted by: alabama | Jul 11 2008 0:19 utc | 42

dude’s a craven, lying, triangulating, pandering, AIPAC fellating little bitch. if you’re an antiwar, anti police state progressive that’s his saliva you’re wiping off your face. he doesn’t give a rat’s ass what you think.
change you can believe in my ass.

Posted by: ran | Jul 11 2008 1:11 utc | 43

From annie’s link: “Instead, the event risks being trivialized by a domestic German political squabble, as the German government responds to political pressure from the Bush administration.
What happened?”

Maybe she got that massage…
😉

Posted by: beq | Jul 11 2008 1:46 utc | 44

It’s on the other thread, pat–the one about Maliki. I should have known that….

Posted by: alabama | Jul 11 2008 1:55 utc | 45

jason: no, it wasn’t a “bad call” but another calculated message to the big boys up top. no wonder Jesse wants to rip his nuts off
as for echoing the right @31…a statement meant to apply to who? all who post here? that is funny.

Posted by: Lizard | Jul 11 2008 2:28 utc | 46

beq, you crack me up. we are quite the cheery bunch today.
dude’s a craven, lying, triangulating, pandering, AIPAC fellating little bitch.
pull up a stool and make it a double shot.

Posted by: annie | Jul 11 2008 2:53 utc | 47

What a rude dick you’ve become pat, your one liner half aloof jabs aren’t even a civil attempt to dialogue nor to communicate except in a half heartened way, or in in any way I can see…
I seriously had respect for you at one time, not that it matters I guess, however, your recent behavior raises a few questions, A) are you even who you say you are, i.e., Col. Pat lang proprietor of this fine blog, or an impostor. Because if you are indeed, Col. Pat lang I find it hard to believe you have engaged in the way you have, I would have thought discourse such as we have seen from you of late, would be beneath you. B) you’ve been hitting the sauce, and perhaps need to pick up one of those white poker chip thingy’s at your next rotation church basement meeting. In all honesty, if you are he, then it disappoints me a bit as you sound and are quite engaging and an enjoyable read as well as host on your turf.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 11 2008 3:12 utc | 48

Uncle @48, my thoughts exactly. The pat of recent is not the Pat I remember reading on MoA and seemingly has little in common with PLang. Thanx for putting it in words 🙂

Posted by: Juan Moment | Jul 11 2008 5:30 utc | 49

“Because if you are indeed, Col. Pat lang…”
Absolutely not.
I’m not that full of myself.

Posted by: pat | Jul 11 2008 5:59 utc | 50

I’m also not a colonel. Though I’ve known a few.

Posted by: pat | Jul 11 2008 6:01 utc | 51

With regard to Obama’s “betrayals”: I assume that Obama, not being willing to run any risk of being seen as “soft on security issues”, is taking these positions for crassly electoral purposes. What he will do when elected
will, I hope, depend more upon the economic and geo-political circumstances
prevailing after next January than upon campaign rhetoric from a hot summer. Given his background, one may hope (and of course it’s only a hope) that an Obama administration will be just as “security conscious
and pro-Israel” as GWB’s administration was “compassionately conservative”.

Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Jul 11 2008 7:06 utc | 52

I’m not that full of myself.
Well, that clears that up perhaps, eh? Surely b you’ve been watching these events unfold, I wonder why you haven’t stepped in to affirm that this character wasn’t *the* Col. Pat Lang, for whatever reason. Second, (and this is to you pat) at least by stating the above italicized sentence, it shows some willingness on your part — however minute — to be genuine to a small extent. And I can appreciate that. That is workable to say the least.
I personally do not care to engage on an superficial level, however if you’d like to enter discussion proper, I’ll be the first to say,
‘what’s your poison’, drinks on me. Otherwise carry on mate.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 11 2008 8:53 utc | 53

Holy cow, I never thought anyone would mistake me for Lang.
And I never assumed B did either.
It’s short for Patricia. Lenora.

Posted by: pat | Jul 11 2008 9:00 utc | 54

That is funny, ha ha

Posted by: …—… | Jul 11 2008 14:55 utc | 55

i always thought you were a woman pat. 😉
not that my opinion matters to you!

Posted by: annie | Jul 11 2008 15:03 utc | 56

is taking these positions for crassly electoral purposes.
needless to say this has certainly been my hope. especially when i heard his few capitulations to aipac.

Posted by: annie | Jul 11 2008 15:05 utc | 57

not to get too OT, but there’s been a drama going on within the jewish community lately documented here regarding ‘divided loyalties that has pitted joe klien against the Anti-Defamation League.
The fact that a great many Jewish neoconservatives–people like Joe Lieberman and the crowd over at Commentary–plumped for this war, and now for an even more foolish assault on Iran, raised the question of divided loyalties: using U.S. military power, U.S. lives and money, to make the world safe for Israel.
i find it unusual because usually these kinds of (anti semite accusations within the jewish community)fights are held in venues that don’t include such notoriously public places as Time magazine, even if it is just their online community. it’s breaking now because of the election of course. the impact of jstreet (Executive Director Jeremy Ben Ami spoke about Iran with Laura Ingraham from the O’Reilly Factor. ) making inroads into the msm has got to factor in.
J Street’s position is clear: We oppose pre-emptive military action by either the United States or Israel, and we support stronger US diplomacy – using carrots as well as sticks – to address Iran’s nuclear ambitions.
it’s going to take strong voices from the jewish community to turn the tide in terms of the way they are perceived politically. there is simply too much power coming from the right and they don’t represent the majority of US jews just because the do represent a very sizeable chunk of the media power. i am HOPING the jewish voices he is listening to are of the jstreet ilk. it amazes me klien writes and post associating the withdrawl w/what is and is not good for the US and good for israel and gets attacked for being anti semite!
of course this doesn’t address the fisa issue. i know i’ve posted about this recently and i’m sorry for the repeat.

Posted by: annie | Jul 11 2008 15:29 utc | 58

pat, if I remember correctly, you remarked in passing some time ago that a lot of army folks were angry, or frustrated, with Clinton over his handling of Iraq. And when I said that this was news to me–and it really was–you suggested that I should do a little homework and I’d know what you were referring to. Well, I’ve tried to track it down, and I haven’t had much success. Are there some military journals, maybe, that carried the story as it happened?

Posted by: alabama | Jul 11 2008 15:49 utc | 59

Angry and frustrated with Clinton over Iraq?
No, no, no.
Angry and frustrated with Clinton over the Balkans.

Posted by: pat | Jul 11 2008 18:54 utc | 60

u s imperialism is indeed a paper tiger as mao once sd – they are like bad children – excellent at demolition – but construction of any kind – conceptual, strategic or concrete – is quite simply beyond them
& it doesn’t matter where – the balkans, latin america or the middle east
utterly & completely useless
yhey are however a long history of a certain excellence in killing innocent citizens – a tradition they are carrying on in their usual elaphantine way in afghanistan & iraq

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 11 2008 19:07 utc | 61

Somalia.

Posted by: pat | Jul 11 2008 19:10 utc | 62

Haiti.

Posted by: pat | Jul 11 2008 19:11 utc | 63

Somalia.

Posted by: pat | Jul 11 2008 19:12 utc | 64

but then this is an empire who happily hung black man from trees – burnt, emasculated & sometimes skinned right up to the 1960’s
& like australians, possessing no conscience at all – or it would seem any substantial sense of the sacred – they are very very close to the total extermination of the indian & aboriginal people

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 11 2008 19:24 utc | 65

though the empire is rarely comic, or never intentionally so
through the fortunes of cable i am able to witness the utter blarny, delusions of grandeur & mere tomfoolery that the bbc tries to tell about intelligence/counterintelligence – with schlock like ‘spooks’
perhaps they have not heard that they do not matter, they do not matter at all & that indeed the only competent intelligence operatives from 1920 to 1990 they had were in the employ of the nkvd, or the kgb or perhaps now with the fsb
so that in fact mi5 & 6 were essentially branch offices of the moscow directorate

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 11 2008 19:46 utc | 66

pat/patricia: whoever you are most of your posts are a total waste of time.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 11 2008 21:02 utc | 67

me @67….and didn’t you refer to Lang in a previous post before Uncle posed his questions?

Posted by: Lizard | Jul 11 2008 21:06 utc | 68

robert dreyfuss: Obama’s Evolving Foreign Policy

..Obama seems likely to preside over a restoration of the bipartisan consensus that governed foreign policy during the cold war and the 1990s, updated for a post-9/11 world. That conclusion arises from an in-depth examination of the Illinois senator’s views as well as dozens of interviews with foreign policy experts, including lengthy exchanges with the core group of Obama’s foreign policy team and other participants in his task forces on the military, Iraq and the Middle East. It’s also based on a careful review of speeches and position papers, Obama’s 2007 article in Foreign Affairs and a key chapter, “The World Beyond Our Borders,” in his book The Audacity of Hope. All this suggests there is a gap between Obama’s inspirational speeches and the actual policies he supports.

Even as he pledges to end the war in Iraq, Obama promises to increase Pentagon spending, boost the size of the Army and Marines, bolster the Special Forces, expand intelligence agencies and maintain the hundreds of US military bases that dot the globe. He supports a muscular multilateralism that includes NATO expansion, and according to the Times of London, his advisers are pushing him to ask Defense Secretary Robert Gates to stay on in an Obama administration. Though he is against the idea of the United States imposing democracy abroad, Obama does propose a sweeping nation-building and democracy-promotion program, including strengthening the controversial National Endowment for Democracy and constructing a civil-military apparatus that would deploy to rescue and rebuild failed and failing states in Africa, Asia and the Middle East.

He and his key advisers have embraced a sweeping plan to promote democracy overseas, rebuild failed and failing states and provide aid to dissidents and democrats from Africa and the Middle East to Russia and China. He pledges to “integrate civilian and military capabilities to promote global democracy and development,” including the creation of “Mobile Development Teams (MDTs) that bring together personnel from the military, the Pentagon, the State Department and USAID, fully integrating U.S. government efforts in counter-terror, state-building, and post-conflict operations.” He would also “establish an expeditionary capability” for non-Pentagon agencies, including the departments of State, Homeland Security, Justice and Treasury.
Asked which failing states might need attention from Obama, Susan Rice, a former Clinton Administration State Department official who advises the candidate, says, “The list is long. You can start in South Asia and Afghanistan, but there is also Somalia, Yemen, Kenya and the Sahelian countries in Africa.” Then, she says, there are countries that, while not yet failing, have weak or poorly formed civil societies. “In countries like Nigeria, where in contrast to Egypt or Saudi Arabia, you are facing a regime that is not strongly averse to political reform, the United States can help to build democratic institutions, a more accountable parliament, a free press and institutions of civil justice.”
Even in more resistant countries, such as Egypt and Russia, the United States can still support dissidents and take other pro-democracy steps, says Rice. Asked whether Russia, for instance, would react favorably to such efforts, she says, “No, they would not like it. But that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be doing it. And we were doing it, until a little while ago. During the Clinton Administration, there was a much more active democracy promotion effort.”

Posted by: b real | Jul 11 2008 21:22 utc | 69

pat/patricia: whoever you are most of your posts are a total waste of time.
Posted by: | Jul 11, 2008 5:02:32 PM | 67
me @67….and didn’t you refer to Lang in a previous post before Uncle posed his questions?
Posted by: Lizard | Jul 11, 2008 5:06:24 PM | 68
Not one to encourage time wasting: Don’t read them.
And yes I did refer to Lang, without realizing anyone confused me with he.

Posted by: pat | Jul 11 2008 21:39 utc | 70

as for echoing the right @31…a statement meant to apply to who? all who post here? that is funny.
Posted by: Lizard | Jul 10, 2008 10:28:18 PM | 46
I’m sorry I missed this, lizard.
And I apologize for lack of elaboration.
Countless people on the right convinced themselves that this administration would go to war with Iran. Until very recently you could not tell them that it isn’t going to happen, so deep was the belief. “But, but…of COURSE he’s going to! How could he not?!” (Now they’re mostly feeling stiffed.)
Same on the left, where the conviction is even greater.
Poor old Hersh, trying to salvage his reputation by telling you that covert activities, of which he has a cartoonish and badly mistaken view, are prelude to war, rather than, as Boot accurately noted in this instance, a substitute.
And as with the right, there is the outcry over Obama as some kind of abomination, though for different reasons. He’s a politician, for Christ’s sake.

Posted by: pat | Jul 11 2008 21:49 utc | 71

Pat did brilliant posts back on a Fallujah extermination project. Our resident artist did also.
I think they were the same person.
snark alert, just flaming, which is the discourse in the leader of us politic’s scene.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 11 2008 22:22 utc | 72

thank you, pat, for bringing a little more meat to the table. elaboration is always appreciated.
he’s a politician, for Christ’s sake. this is often forgotten or maybe willfully suppressed because amerika has this irrational, collective need for a messiah figure to save us from ourselves, which isn’t going to happen.
maybe it’s shortsighted and naive to be so incredulous over Obomb’s readjustment. as Uncle succinctly pointed out in another thread, this crisis we face (specifically americans) is a philosophical crisis. the political and economic realms are just symptoms of a deeper malaise that keeps us, at our core, accessories to all the many, ugly crimes of empire.

Posted by: Lizard | Jul 11 2008 23:07 utc | 73

b real, dreyfuss’s report is depressing.
pat, i recently finished an online conversation about iran w/the resident gov troll @ another site and he couldn’t stop talking about hersh. one might get the impression we (the US public) hasn’t been treated to an unprecedented amount of non stop iran/israel coverage since hersh’s story broke. but really, can you blame it all on hersh? do you really think obamajohn and hilary would have ignored the tough on iran talk if it weren’t for hersh?
so deep was the belief.
yeah, the belief that fell from the sky out of nowhere and landed in our dreams. let’s all pretend the drumbeat we have been hearing for the last couple years hasn’t been nurtured along by the same SAIC/aipac ilk think tanks that brought us mission accomplished. go read my #58. this isn’t about the power of hersh, it is about the power of the israel lobby/MIComplex. why should anyone have any certainty about what war criminals will or won’t do? you act like we have no cause to be concerned. that’s not the case.

Posted by: annie | Jul 11 2008 23:44 utc | 74

can you blame it all on hersh?
-annie
Oh, hell no.

Posted by: pat | Jul 12 2008 3:09 utc | 75

Carry on with your concern. By all means.

Posted by: pat | Jul 12 2008 3:13 utc | 76

i recently finished an online conversation about iran w/the resident gov troll @ another site
– annie
I want that job.

Posted by: pat | Jul 12 2008 3:17 utc | 77

patricia, sweetheart, care to post a link?

Posted by: Lizard | Jul 12 2008 3:24 utc | 78

I’m sorry. A link to what?

Posted by: pat | Jul 12 2008 3:30 utc | 79

just curious the site w/ resident troll where you spoke what? about iran.

Posted by: Lizard | Jul 12 2008 3:45 utc | 80

I have no idea what site annie was at.
But I’m sure that on the morrow she’ll let us know. And we can all go pay a visit.

Posted by: pat | Jul 12 2008 4:11 utc | 81

my mistake. didn’t see the site was attributed to annie.

Posted by: Lizard | Jul 12 2008 4:19 utc | 82

Can’t blame Hersh, I think his many pentagon/cia contacts want him to keep on with the Iran thing, so their misgivings are heard/made public. Spend any time on the COIN blogs, and you’ll hear plenty of of the same.

Posted by: anna missed | Jul 12 2008 4:51 utc | 83

r’giap @66 – on the u.s. intel agencies, one thing that mel goodman pointed out in his book failure of intelligence (which i have dubbed failure of memory due to the fact that the book is frustratingly repetitive — he repeats the same things over & over & over, sometimes even on the same frickin’ page — and horribly organized/thought out) that i didn’t know, if this is indeed true, is that the cia is not allowed to critique u.s. policy:

Since CIA analysts are not permitted to address the role and actions of the United States in their assessments, there will always be a missing element in their analysis.

this is incredible, if true, but it would explain alot

Posted by: b real | Jul 12 2008 5:19 utc | 84

lizard, i was probably being too judgmental. for all i know he (gov troll) is authentic. it was @ abu-whatever.
can’t remember the post.. maybe in the morn i’l dig it up. it’s a little weird in my book tho. in the iraqi blogs the position of the pro war crowd, they always poo poo the idea of an iran attack, as if we are silly, just as pat allures to: Countless people …convinced themselves..go to war with Iran. .. so deep was the belief.
convinced ourselves???? hello? either they are ‘softening the target’ (target being us) for an eventual inevitability, or they are using this press crap as a way to deter, and that would be really fucked. the whole fear crap. damn i grew up w/the russians under my bed laying in wait. we are being used. am i supposed to believe that the animals who toy w/out fears ar on the bluff? is that what this is about? and then lay the blame on hersh?? ha. bs.
pentagon/cia contacts want him to keep on with the Iran thing, so their misgivings are heard/made public.
hersh is a mouthpiece. he speaks for those who can’t. if those he speaks for have fears and he assesses they are genuine then who am i to call bluff. we are being ruled my maniacs. sparse the term genocide til kingdom come if it washes the stench off your skin for all i care. i have no odea what they will do. it is going to take mankind to bring them to the gallows. in my lifetime? i doubt it.

Posted by: annie | Jul 12 2008 7:47 utc | 85

speaking of ‘them’, here’s an interesting upfate (sic) about afghanistan/turkey from lukery/sibel edmonds. the truth? who knows the truth? i started googeling the main suspect,Fetullah Gulen, the world’s greatest living intellectual(!!!).. ended up checking out the editor and staff @ foreign policy zine.. who the hell knows whats real anymore. for all i know it is the joker in a cave. where’s batman?

Posted by: annie | Jul 12 2008 8:01 utc | 86

who the hell knows whats real anymore. for all i know it is the joker in a cave. where’s batman?
indeed annie, indeed… and that I believe is the method, the purpose. It’s a technique, a science. Rule by chaos and crisis. It’s a useful ploy of Herbert walkers Bushes use of ink from THE OCTOPUS AS DISINFORMATION.
It’s controlled Apophenia. Apophenia in reverse. Apophenia is the experience of seeing patterns or connections in random or meaningless data. An eddy, or energy sink. In this case so as to cover and obfuscate the reality so they can do their dirty work. Manufactured, Simulacrum.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 12 2008 12:03 utc | 87

If you want to see reverse apophenia in action, just look at the trail Sun Myung Moon and Bo Hai Bak (former head of the Korean CIA and Moon’s long term second in command) have managed to cover as they manipulate the Republican Party, the American Religious Reich, and the near fascist S. Korean government with almost 1600 front organizations and trillions of dollars spread around. It is the story that apart from John Gorenfield, Rick Ross and the late Robert Boettcher, no one cares to cover. For those not in the know, the yellow rag Washington Times is owned by Moon and he’s dumped almost a billion dollars into this money losing fraud because its such an important right wing propaganda tool. They even get a spot on C-SPAN as a serious journalistic organ! Where’s the press now? Some one needs to do a real exposes before the old fraud croaks. Moon’s over 90!

Posted by: Diogenes | Jul 12 2008 15:32 utc | 88

Dang, U$/87:
fnord fnord fnord

Posted by: catlady | Jul 12 2008 15:47 utc | 89

“Prediction: Voter participation in the general election will be at a record low.”
Bet. I’ll take higher.
“Obama’s a fraud”.
Bullshit. He’s a black Democrat trying to nwin an election in a

Posted by: waldo | Jul 12 2008 17:26 utc | 90

“Prediction: Voter participation in the general election will be at a record low.”
Bet. I’ll take higher.
“Obama’s a fraud”.
Bullshit. He’s a black Democrat trying to win an election in a VERY dangerous environment.
I watched Bartcop whine bitch moan and criticize Kerry last election. Knock it off Dickhead.

Posted by: waldo | Jul 12 2008 17:29 utc | 91

Jesus, what is it w/you dinks of late. Waldo, do you always blow into peoples cyber homes and shit on the floor? I bet your a bore at dinner parties, before you drink to much and start fonding the singles and have to be thrown out.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 12 2008 17:42 utc | 92

Uncle: shhhhh… they’re napping, and you are disturbing their slumber. we have to remember that in dreamland Obama remains unblemished by the contradiction of his rhetoric versus his actions. and his skin color is a powerful smokescreen apparently laced with some sort of hallucinogen that causes people to see visions like young girls at Fatima.
annie: thanks for the clarification. there has been some (intentional?) confusion as of late. it is indeed difficult to determine what’s what and who’s who.
maybe non-engagement=no derailment?
waldo: i know Obama sounds like a symphony after eight years of cacophony, i’ll give you that, but open your eyes and look at the people playing his music. this IS a very dangerous environment, i agree, and that’s why it’s absolutely crucial we give both candidates the BIG HAIRY EYEBALL because i’ve heard this tune before, and all it is is an emotionally manipulative arrangement of pretty sounds with a fast, positive beat full of catch phrases and exalted crescendos.
LOOK at them: is that Warren Christopher playing the flute? Madeline Albright rocking the clarinet? you-fucking-betchya!

Posted by: Lizard | Jul 12 2008 22:31 utc | 93

voter turnout in November will be at record highs, and most Americans have no idea what FISA is about….. it will take another four years for disillusion to set in, maybe sooner if the economy crashes.
I don’t believe that they will attack Iran either, but a blockade is an act of war, and Iran might retaliate, then all hell will break loose….

Posted by: Susan | Jul 12 2008 23:44 utc | 94

waldo@91, your right
when has a presidential candidate ever received 43% of the White vote by placing individual rights over the govmints. Never mind the code-red climate we live in today. And Obama’s FISA vote meaninglessly padded it to 71, Only 60 was needed.

Posted by: jony_b_cool | Jul 13 2008 0:04 utc | 95

the story of mouseland

Posted by: annie | Jul 13 2008 5:58 utc | 96

better mouseland

Posted by: annie | Jul 13 2008 6:15 utc | 97

Mouseland – hosted by Jack Bauer, priceless

Posted by: jcairo | Jul 13 2008 10:53 utc | 98

$cam
You goat-blowing hypocrite, you’ve left posts far pissier than my little ode. As for this whining about Obama, two options: STFU and vote for him or curl up in a ball and whimper about the big bad GOP.
Better still, vote for McCain. He’ll give you something to really whine about.

Posted by: waldo | Jul 13 2008 12:13 utc | 99

You should write bumper stickers, Waldo. Or magnetic ribbons. You have a talent.

Posted by: Tantalus | Jul 13 2008 12:30 utc | 100