Probably all for naught (in re Kucinich) b. But it will be in the record fwiw. Also, I read somewhere not too long ago; sorry, I can't remember where, that he can still be impeached even after leaving office. There is a precedent. I was surprised to hear npr cover it this morning (with a sound bite even!). The reading of the articles took 4 hours. Man, I bet Nancy was pissed.

Posted by: beq | Jun 11 2008 11:29 utc | 1

Check your Putin link, b.

Posted by: beq | Jun 11 2008 11:38 utc | 2

A US gagging order is preventing discussion of the allegations.

The gag order is working so well that the BBC doesn't seem to have been able to make a correct analysis. Apart from obvious overcharging by Halliburton et al., it is a question of the free-for-all for Iraqi reserves under Bremer in 2004, where there was virtually no accounting control at all. If I remember correctly, I posted this link on MoA not too long ago, which gives a good account of the story. But the Beeb says it was US taxpayers' money. You're right, it is the silly season.

On a more serious level, if Obama does get in, this issue could be the big one to break (but not to make) US policy under the new administration. If Obama is honest and reveals what really happened, US credit abroad will fall through the floor it is already on. If he conceals it, as I expect he will, then Obama will be in the same camp as GWB. Right from the first day.

Posted by: Alex | Jun 11 2008 11:54 utc | 3

@beq - they have now killed the link - ballon juice has a screenshot.

Posted by: b | Jun 11 2008 13:39 utc | 4

Kucinich is making it official because it's THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
Sure, his party blocked him from doing it before because they're legitimately scared that a (twice-elected) MORON has got his finger on the button and has demonstrated himself time and time again to be STUPID and RUTHLESS enough to use it.
While Bush is in power (and it ain't over yet) NOBODY can touch him.
Denis Kucinich has been publicly advocating Bush's impeachment for over two years. That America has not followed his brave call is a reflection on America, not Denis Kucinich.

Posted by: waldo | Jun 11 2008 14:33 utc | 5

Oh, and Denis Kucinich for A.G.

Posted by: | Jun 11 2008 14:35 utc | 6

Kucinich always gave me the impression of moving forward, and forming his opinions, slowly and cautiously. His wife is more impetuous. He is most likely the most sincere (if such a description can have any meaning in the context) of the US pols known abroad. Sincere in the sense that his opinions and moves are are set in a context that he has worked out, and the two are considered separately. More like a lawyer than a carpet salesman or a madman or a pure ideologue. (See also waldo above.)

Of course, it is US typical, in the too little too late line, or the now-I-have-hindsight-and-I-am-not-responsible-for-my-previous-stance line. (not a dig against K.)

American political life is peculiar; everything is of the moment, and the memory hole is is so wide and deep it absorbs even last month’s happenings. Concurrently, it is excruciatingly slow; important events gestate for years, take years to comprehend and adjust to, react to. Or decades even. Now it seems it takes more than a year, huge amounts of energy and incredible expense, focussed energy by millions of people, to select a president.

Can’t think of another country similar, though France is looking more and more like the US. (I just spent 10 days there.)

Posted by: Tangerine | Jun 11 2008 15:11 utc | 7

waldo, @# 5 thats ridiculous, they aren't scared bush will "push the button", hell, they would secretly applaud that. It is for the simple fact, that they are knee deep in war profiteering and sanguinivorously drinking blood money. And if there is any fear, it's that someone would finally say, "enough" and take these fuckers out.

I'm so sick of this "spineless", "incompetent" meme, when these fucks are clearly complicit. Quit justifying their behavior.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 11 2008 15:28 utc | 8

waldo, @# 5 thats ridiculous, they aren't scared bush will "push the button", hell, they would secretly applaud that. It is for the simple fact, that they are knee deep in war profiteering and sanguinivorously drinking blood money. And if there is any fear, it's that someone would finally say, "enough" and take these fuckers out.

I'm so sick of this "spineless", "incompetent" meme, when these fucks are clearly complicit. Quit justifying their behavior.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 11 2008 15:29 utc | 9

Kucinich is an American hero. He has been pushing for impeachment when no one else would. And he stood up for almost 5 hours to make his point. And Uncle, I think you are dead wrong to demonize the Dems in Congress, placing them on the same level as the Repugs. We are a signature away from a crisis that leads to martial law and a police state. They would not applaud, because they understand how far this has gone. The Dem leaders are afraid. Their fucking phones have been tapped for years now, their phones, and they are well aware of the implications. And I don't know why Pelosi has allowed this to go forward now, or what will happened when Kucinich pushes to have the Articles turned over to the Judiciary Committee.

The last time this happened the republicans were only too happy to help move a similar measure over to Judiciary, to call the democrats' bluff. Cheney was the target, I believe; and sure enough, the measure died in committee. The democrats have been weak and timorous and Vichy-like. It might be too late to draw a line in the sand; but perhaps by showing a slight snarl, instead of a servile smile, they can discourage the the guys in the White House and Pentagon from doing a crazy thing, that would bring down the Republic.

Posted by: Copeland | Jun 11 2008 18:47 utc | 10

Speaker Must Be Removed For Her Illegal Position on Impeachment Investigation

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 11 2008 20:26 utc | 11

respectively Copeland, though it's no surprise, i think Uncle's barbed words are perfectly in line with the disgust every amerikan should feel at the pornographic capitulation the Dems & Obama have displayed since (and before) his crowning. Kucinich is tolerated because it would be messy to kill him now. Wellstone wasn't so lucky. Nancy and the other Dem war profiteers are in no way going to compromise their respective grabs while the peons bitch about gas prices.

let's be realistic here: the "spineless" "incompetent" meme of Dem servitude for the last two years should be killed. these fuckers are clearly complicit, as Uncle says, and any surprise expressed at that uncomfortable fact exposes a grave level of naivete already too prevalent to adequately address.

maybe there is fear in the Dem camp, fear that the theatre of their opposition will be exposed for the farce it is.

Posted by: Lizard | Jun 11 2008 20:55 utc | 12

Removal of the Speaker is not going to happen. It is not going to be proposed by anyone in Congress. There will be no public groundswell of support to remove her. The commenter at TPM exercises a flight of fantasy, expecting the American public to have an epiphany, in which they suddenly see that most everyone in Congress+both political parties are "domestic enemies". This won't become conventional wisdom. But there are Marines in Indianapolis going through a dry run training for martial law.

I feel a considerable amount of disgust myself at the complicity of some Dems; but one shouldn't place them exactly at the same level as the masters. If servitude is the right word, then one has to take into account coersion and the discrete application of terror, as well as preying upon anxiety in Congress. Politics anywhere is still the art of the possible, and weakness is inherent in unequal relationships. The awesome power of Big Brother has been levelled at these people and we shouldn't judge them too harshly, without giving ourselves the once over.

We too are complicit.

Posted by: Copeland | Jun 11 2008 21:43 utc | 13

Silly season indeed:

Two Muslim supporters of "violent jihad" discussed setting up a secret Islamic state in a remote part of Scotland, a court heard yesterday.

Posted by: Cloned_Poster | Jun 11 2008 22:08 utc | 14

good point, Copeland. it is too easy to declare from the armchair complicity in our leadership when we ourselves are uncomfortably implicated in the whole nasty affair. Still, one can't help but fantasize that Uncle's link is a long shot possibility.

Posted by: Lizard | Jun 11 2008 23:00 utc | 15

Citoyens:

Call your representatives, call Conyers. Help make it happen.

Any valiant volunteers?

Posted by: catlady | Jun 11 2008 23:21 utc | 16

We too are complicit.

Fuck that...

I will not accept any responsibility, zero, notta, none, for these degenerate criminals the whole lot of them.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 11 2008 23:26 utc | 17

Then scream, at the top of your lungs and send emails until your fingers are bloody stumps. We've screamed before, but this is a big one.

Like the f*cking Whos in Whoville, scream. John Horton Conyers, take it the next goddam step.

Barkeep, keep those shots a-comin'.....I'm going mad this week.

Posted by: catlady | Jun 11 2008 23:34 utc | 18

John Conyers at the Rayburn Building (D.C.):
202-225-5126

Posted by: beq | Jun 12 2008 1:38 utc | 19

Instead we venerate this fuck...

"Construction is now well underway for 'The George W Bush Presidential Library' instead of a jail cell we name buildings after these murderous criminals.

Surely, you'll want to be one of the first to make a contribution to this great man's legacy...

The library includes:

* The Hurricane Katrina Room (still in the planning stage).
* The Alberto Gonzales Archive, where no-one can find anything.
* The Texas Air National Guard Room. (Attendance optional.)
* The Walter Reed Hospital Room, where they don't let you in.
* The Guantanamo Bay Room, where they don't let you out.
* The Weapons of Mass Destruction Room, which no-one has yet been able to locate.
* The Iraq War Room. Here, after you complete your first tour, you are routed onto second, third, fourth, and sometimes fifth tours.
* The Dick Cheney Room -- complete with shooting gallery -- in an undisclosed location.

Also included:

* The K-Street Project Gift Shop, where you can buy (or steal) an election.
* The Airport Men's Room, where you will be able to meet some of your favorite Republican senators.

To highlight President Bush's accomplishments, the museum will be equipped with an electron microscope to help you locate them.

The President has said that he doesn't care that much about the individual exhibits -- just that he wants his museum to be better than his daddy's."

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 12 2008 2:48 utc | 20

The fact that Dennis (eventhough belated) has at least the guts to call for impeachment of the war criminals in the WH, creates the contrast needed to view the rest of the Dems as what they are, soft, soggy face washers. Pelosi might as well have an (R) next to her name, would be closer to the truth.

As Uncle wrote, there is a damn good reason for their complacency, "it is for the simple fact, that they are knee deep in war profiteering and sanguinivorously drinking blood money." Amen.

Posted by: Juan Moment | Jun 12 2008 2:55 utc | 21

Crap, that was suppose to be in blockquotes, as it wasn't my comments above...

though while she makes light of a dark situation, this gallows humor is needed to a degree, because even though it is meant to be satire, the irony is, nay, the truth of the matter is there really is a controversial library project underway to honor this necromantic and his grandiose ego...

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 12 2008 2:56 utc | 22

uncle: where exactly do you stand on the issues? seriously, i don't think you are being explicit enough! delve deeper (lol)

joking aside, it seems a certain amount of profanity is required at this juncture for US to truly express our feelings about getting fucked after sixty years of US fucking everyone else. most here (amerika) don't realize the extreme lack of sympathy many non-amerikans feel about the states. one of the only reasons you all pay attention to this, our swan song, is because, as the last empire to hold the global hot potato, we are the easiest target to blame, and while very deserving of a lot of the blame, the whole enchilada does not rest solely with US.

Posted by: Lizard | Jun 12 2008 4:09 utc | 23

Designs for the BW Bush Library were submitted by readers to the Chronicle of Higher Education.

Posted by: Browning | Jun 12 2008 14:14 utc | 24

danofsteele said hello today and before i climb into bed after another day of fighting for impeachment, i will weigh in for a moment. bernhard, it is hardly too late. it is not too late as long as there are people being killed, wounded, and displaced in iraq. it is not too late as long as they can attack iran. it is not too late as long as they can torture, kidnap, wiretap, politicize the justice department, out cia agents, litter the world with depleted uranium, loot the u.s. treasury, refuse to engage in a responsible environmental/energy program, and other things i am too tired to list. impeachment hearings put bush/cheney etc. on notice. the nixon impeachment was accomplished in three months, clinton in five. to dismiss this as useless because there is not enough time is to dismiss the constitution and presume restoration of the balance of power in this country is not worth fighting for. i don't know that impeachment will succeed, but it is the only chance this country has of turning things around. an obama presidency, while a sight better than mccain, will not restore our civil rights or keep us out of iran. imho, this is a fight to the death and for progressives to be dismissive of it is a disgrace. it is time to get on the phone and write letters and hound the press. catlady said it well above:

Then scream, at the top of your lungs and send emails until your fingers are bloody stumps. We've screamed before, but this is a big one.

Like the f*cking Whos in Whoville, scream. John Horton Conyers, take it the next goddam step.

Barkeep, keep those shots a-comin'.....I'm going mad this week.

we should all be mad, mad as hell and not going to take it anymore.

here in new york we have mounted a primary challenge to jerry nadler to force impeachment as an election issue. he is nervous and annoyed and it feels good. maybe we will make this happen. how else to get spineless dems to cosponsor h. res. 1254 but to pressure them to do it now, better late than never. i was pleased to see woolsey and lee join wexler as cosponsors and i expect there will be additional names tomorrow and the next day. i know the people who are working alongside kucinich and we are a principled and determined group. we're not giving up because people think it is too late. even nadler, my equivocating rep, boasts that the hearings have been in preparation for taking them down. with pressure from the grassroots this could very well happen. at the very least it will put the criminals on notice.

b, just wondering. if you knew someone had robbed you, but only had a six more months to live, would you not bother to prosecute?

Posted by: sharon | Jun 13 2008 5:36 utc | 25

forgot to say this in my rant. hellooooooo to everyone. sorry i have been too busy to belly up as i used to. there are only hours of the day... hope you all are well, and please take a deep breath and have heart.

Posted by: sharon | Jun 13 2008 5:39 utc | 26

So. Sharon, you'll know. Can they still be impeached after/if ever they're out of office?

btw, I called Conyer's office yesterday.

Posted by: beq | Jun 13 2008 11:26 utc | 27

hi beq! afaik, no impeachment after out of office. the point of impeachment is to remove someone from office. impeachment paves the way for criminal prosecution once out of office.

btw, dk was on democracy now! this morning - to my knowledge, the first show dn! has done on impeachment. some progressive thinkers believe this important and are listening. dk has stated that if the hjc does not act within 30 days he will introduce the resolution again with additional articles. he's not walking away from this. our job is to support him and call the hjc members telling them to support this and the press telling them to cover it. it is up to us to make this a defining moment for this country.

Posted by: sharon | Jun 13 2008 13:59 utc | 28

hi beq! afaik, no impeachment after out of office. the point of impeachment is to remove someone from office. impeachment paves the way for criminal prosecution once out of office.

btw, dk was on democracy now! this morning - to my knowledge, the first show dn! has done on impeachment. some progressive thinkers believe this important and are listening. dk has stated that if the hjc does not act within 30 days he will introduce the resolution again with additional articles. he's not walking away from this. our job is to support him and call the hjc members telling them to support this and the press telling them to cover it. it is up to us to make this a defining moment for this country.

Posted by: sharon | Jun 13 2008 14:00 utc | 29

Countrywide's Many 'Friends'

Two U.S. senators, two former Cabinet members, and a former ambassador to the United Nations received loans from Countrywide Financial through a little-known program that waived points, lender fees, and company borrowing rules for prominent people.

Senators Christopher Dodd, Democrat from Connecticut and chairman of the Banking Committee, and Kent Conrad, Democrat from North Dakota, chairman of the Budget Committee and a member of the Finance Committee, refinanced properties through Countrywide’s “V.I.P.” program in 2003 and 2004, according to company documents and emails and a former employee familiar with the loans.

Other participants in the V.I.P. program included former Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Alphonso Jackson, former Secretary of Health and Human Services Donna Shalala, and former U.N. ambassador and assistant Secretary of State Richard Holbrooke.
...

Posted by: b | Jun 13 2008 14:27 utc | 30

hi sharon! keep up the pressure. i contacted my local rep's offices here fwiw. gotta try to stop these people from the inside if we can. still, we should leave all options on the table ;) which includes counting on the citizens of other nations to press their govts to take responsibility on moving forward on war crime charges, nabbing these guys on foreign soils, & trying them in impartial courts.

Posted by: b real | Jun 13 2008 15:02 utc | 31