Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 11, 2008

OT 08-22

News & views ...

We welcome your comments.

Posted by b on June 11, 2008 at 18:06 UTC | Permalink

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Chicago Tribune: What should have been said to AIPAC

Candid talk is absolutely essential because Israel's survival as a Jewish and democratic state is being undermined by its continuing occupation of the West Bank.
...

Posted by: b | Jun 11 2008 18:10 utc | 1

This will have quite a backslash

Pakistan condemns "cowardly" U.S. attack; 11 dead

Pakistan lodged a strong protest with the United States over an "unprovoked and cowardly" air strike by U.S. forces in Afghanistan that killed 11 Pakistani soldiers at a border post.
...
The attack "hit at the very basis of cooperation and sacrifice with which Pakistani soldiers are supporting the coalition in the war against terror," the military said.
...
A spokesman for the Pakistani Taliban said they attacked U.S. and Afghan forces as they were setting up a position on the Pakistan side of the border, and eight Taliban were killed and nine wounded in subsequent U.S. bombing.

The militant spokesman, Maulvi Omar, said by telephone he had heard that U.S. aircraft had also bombed a nearby Pakistani post. The Taliban had captured seven Afghan troops and shot down a helicopter, he said.

the big problem here is that the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan is not really defined. Afghanistan does not recognise the Durand line.

If the Afghans with U.S. help set up posts in Pakistan and bomb Pakistan troops that attack such posts this with escalate.

Posted by: b | Jun 11 2008 19:05 utc | 2

What is that old Indian fakir phrase, 'the friend of my enemy is my enemy'?
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/02/26/world/26cnd-pakistan1.600.jpg

Posted by: Lai Rouche | Jun 11 2008 19:49 utc | 3

House Vote #401 (Jun 11, 2008)
On Motion to Refer: H RES 1258 The Kucinich Privilege Resolution

The House: 251 voted yes, 156 voted no.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 11 2008 20:15 utc | 4

Why Is Bush Helping Saudi Arabia Build Nukes?

...
In 2004, Vice President Dick Cheney said, "[Iran is] already sitting on an awful lot of oil and gas. No one can figure why they need nuclear, as well, to generate energy." Mr. Cheney got it right about Iran. But a potential Saudi nuclear program is just as suspicious. For a country with so much oil, gas and solar potential, importing expensive and dangerous nuclear power makes no economic sense.
...
That's not good enough. We would do well to remember that it was the U.S. who provided the original nuclear assistance to Iran under the Atoms for Peace program, before Iran's monarch was overthrown in the 1979 Islamic Revolution. Such an uprising in Saudi Arabia today could be at least as damaging to U.S. security.

We've long known that America's addiction to oil pays for the spread of extremism. If this Bush nuclear deal moves forward, Saudi Arabia's petrodollars could flow to the dangerous expansion of nuclear technologies in the most volatile region of the world.

While the scorching Saudi Arabian sun heats sand dunes instead of powering photovoltaic panels, millions of Americans will fork over $4 a gallon without realizing that their gas tank is fueling a nascent nuclear arms race.


Posted by: Hamburger | Jun 11 2008 21:18 utc | 5

Where did all the money go?

Whenever you have cargo planes carrying pallets of $100 bills into a country under occupation, there are bound to be a few stray millions floating around.

But who know about this?

SueAnn Arrigo is ... a high-level CIA insider. Her title was Special Operations Advisor to the Director of Central Intelligence (DCI). She also established the Remote Viewing Defense protocols for the Pentagon ... It earned her a two-star general rank in the military.

...
In August 2001, DCI George Tenet told her to assemble "a moving van full of Pentagon documents showing Defense Contractor kickbacks to Pentagon officials."
...
CIA used the material to blackmail or bribe its officials "into 'working on' the Halliburton-Carlyle team." Top CIA types were involved, and Tenet laid it out for Arrigo: You've "given me the keys to the kingdom. (These) documents will make me rich."
...
Arrigo worked at CIA for over 30 years and reported directly to Tenet. But she wasn't prepared for what she found - a new section at the Agency without her knowledge. It employed 40 people, all working for Halliburton "while being paid by the US taxpayer as if they were CIA."
...
Arrigo knew too much, took risks to learn it, and what happened next is shocking. Halliburton's "CIA Representative" confronted her, tore out her phone, ransacked her office, removed every shred of paper, and hauled her off bodily "to a prison cell" inside its basement offices. She was intimidated and threatened. Thought she might be killed. She survived, but the message was clear. She complained to Tenet. Showed him her bruises. He responded dismissively: "There, there, everything will be all right in the morning."
...
In 2002, Arrigo tried a new tact (sic) - ingratiating herself with "Halliburton's Man" and using it to her advantage.
...
First off, it's pure myth that Dick Cheney stopped running the company. "He called in orders to the man I worked for almost every day and sometimes two or more times a day. He remained (Halliburton's) functional head in all but name. No one....had the power to override his orders." Second, Cheney never divested himself of Halliburton profits. "He merely hid how (he got them) through a series of shell companies."


There's lots more at the link.

Posted by: jonku | Jun 11 2008 22:00 utc | 6

@U$:

I've called my Rep and John Conyers.

Best part: 24 Republicans voted the Articles forward.

Now, if someone would just please give the creep a blowjob so we could move on this....

Posted by: catlady | Jun 11 2008 22:55 utc | 7

Great Talking Points on Pelosi

Fire 'em all!!! Every last muther one of them.
Vote their fat-ass-narrow-shoulders out of office!!

Posted by: Tiny Pepe | Jun 12 2008 5:52 utc | 8

The Speaker's excuses are frivolous.The Speaker's excuses are frivolous.The Speaker's excuses are frivolous.The Speaker's excuses are frivolous.

Pelosi's inaction on impeachment is reckless assault on the foundations of this Constitution and Republic. She remains a domestic enemy. She is a threat to this Constitution. She has exhausted her useful service to the United States. She must be lawfully removed as Speaker.

She must be lawfully removed as Speaker. She must be lawfully removed as Speaker. She must be lawfully removed as Speaker.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 12 2008 6:37 utc | 9

Thanks to jonku for the link to Counterpunch. It's devastating, but probably will fall victim to "outrage fatigue", and the charge that they are "mere allegations by a disgruntled former employee". Impeachment is far too mild a response to such crimes, which more than ever underline the crying need to re-dimension the MIS-state and purge its criminal elements.

Meanwhile, this Wayne Madsen story is maddeningly incomplete: no names, no documents,
no proof. Yet, if a leak regarding Mossad participation in organizing the 9/11 attacks were ever to "come out" it would probably be at this operational level. I still hope that, like Evan Toni, the Israeli fighter pilot who, years later, told "his truth" about the attack on the U.S.S. Liberty , some Israeli direct participant will step forward with regard to the 9/11 attacks. Since the death toll on 9/11 was on the order of 50 times worse than the attack of the Liberty , and the ensuing consequences far more portentous, my hope is likely to remain just that.

Posted by: Hannah K. O'Luthon | Jun 12 2008 6:47 utc | 10

The House has voted to send the Articles of Impeachment to the Judiciary Committee. If Conyers starts the ball rolling by allowing hearings to start, there will be investigations, although it's unknown at what pace they would move. If Pelosi is lawfully removed as Speaker, I owe Uncle a bottle of champagne.

Posted by: Copeland | Jun 12 2008 7:23 utc | 11

If Pelosi is lawfully removed as Speaker, I owe Uncle a bottle of champagne.

Yeah, that'll happen* about as soon as people believe that unicorns are real.. er , uh... wait!


Unicorn born in Italy...lol

*mind you not that I doubt that you'll not honor your champagne proposition, but that madame --Turkish Armenian holocaust denier-- Pelosi, will be so moved as to do her fucking job.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 12 2008 7:35 utc | 12

@ b 2

I suppose it's uncharitable to mention Obama's alleged views on such
attacks, especially since the word "Pakistan" seems not to appear
here , the Obama campaign's web page devoted to foreign policy. I wonder if the "P" word was
purged after the brouhaha following "alleged" remarks by the candidate.
Does anyone have an (old?) official link to a statement by the candidate on
striking Al Qaeda in Pakistan? The present fiasco offers a good chance to redress earlier rhetoric, but will probably not be exploited.

Posted by: Hannah K. O'Luthon | Jun 12 2008 7:39 utc | 13

Nancy Pelosi: Criminal.

According to constitutional scholar Bruce Fein, Nancy Pelosi "has threatened the removal of Michigan Rep. John Conyers from his chairmanship of the House judiciary committee if an impeachment inquiry were even opened".

Why would Pelosi "take impeachment off the table" and threaten Conyers so he wouldn't initiate impeachment proceedings?

Well, Pelosi was secretly tipped off about warrantless spying on Americans and torture many, many years ago, and yet did nothing to stop those unlawful programs.

Moreover, Pelosi hid from the 9/11 Commission and the American people the fact that the interrogations of 9/11 suspects were videotaped, and that the alleged "confessions" of those held at Gitmo were wholly unreliable. She could have stopped the whole farce cold -- but chose to go along with it.

No wonder Pelosi wants to make sure that impeachment is off the table and no real investigations into White House crimes are launched. She is herself a criminal and co-conspirator, and is very interested in keeping the lid on the truth.

Moreover, Pelosi appears to be taking orders from a foreign nation, a nation which wants Bush, Cheney and the other boys who are launching wars against its enemies to stay in office.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 12 2008 8:03 utc | 14

More reasons for pride in U.S. justice.

Posted by: Hannah K. O'Luthon | Jun 12 2008 12:13 utc | 15

@ Hannah K. O'Luthon

Here's Obama's position on striking Al-Qaeda in Pakistan.
Obama on Pakistan

Posted by: Ensley | Jun 12 2008 12:36 utc | 16

Thanks to Ensley for the link, which, to me, constitutes "strike one".
Strike two was his AIPAC pandering. Others here undoubtedly can name "their" strikes three to twelve, as well as numerous foul balls, but I'll wait before calling him "out". Apparently others see things differently . The last link also has an interesting run-down on possible distaff Obama running mates from the Senate, but fails to mention Governor Kathleen Sibelius of Kansas, who, just by chance, was one of the participants at last week's Bilderberg meeting.


Meanwhile, if this report from the notorious disinformation site Debka is as reliable as its forecast last year of a rise in the dollar toward parity with the Euro, then we all have reason to worry.

Posted by: Hannah K. O'Luthon | Jun 12 2008 13:04 utc | 17

part of the iran situation goes to their crude being 'sour' as opposd to 'sweet' that is, high sulfur, which goes to US oil getting much debated subsidies to build low sulfur gas and diesel refining capacity but instaed pocketed the cash for thei executives and investors, even though desulfuring equipment has been available for decades, so a large part of the runup in (sweet) crude was just hedging against having to spend on plant instead to process sour crude, and while you'd think well now they can afford to, it's just the opposite and the burden falls upstream instead which is why Alberta has to build reconcentrators at huge expense and water demand for their tar sands and why, perhaps, Iran is thinking, well, we have uranium resources, so we can either smog up the joint like China has, or move to nuclear power before the West gains a momopoly on energy that OPEC enjoys today, knowing that the West, unlike the Saudis, would sooner starve Islam to death or enslave them, although 'the West' is becoming more of an international Bilderberg conspiracy. Maybe the best way to visualize it, if you had a forest on your property, and cars burned sawdust, wouldn't you build a sawmill?

Posted by: Bill der Berg | Jun 12 2008 15:15 utc | 18

human rights watch documents some of ethiopia's war crimes in the ogaden in a new rpt out today -- Collective Punishment: War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity in the Ogaden area of Ethiopia's Somali Regional State

despite the following two paragraph mention, from what i've read so far, the rpt lets the u.s. get off way too easily, for instance, not even addressing the military-to-military training & armaments per ethiopia's role in the GWOT.

While the UN and European Union have voiced public concern over the humanitarian situation, Ethiopia’s most important western donor and ally, the United States, has been publicly silent. At a September 2007 news conference in Addis Ababa, the US government’s top diplomat for Africa, Jendayi Frazer, described the allegations of abuses in Somali Region as “unsubstantiated.” Some observers told Human Rights Watch that the US embassy in Addis Ababa sent strong cables to Washington describing serious concerns over military abuses, and that these cables have been suppressed or ignored in Washington. Observers also say that while the US Ambassador to Ethiopia, Donald Yamamoto, has privately raised concerns over human rights abuses with Prime Minister Meles on several occasions, publicly the US embassy in Addis Ababa has actively downplayed concerns in the face of a worsening humanitarian situation.

The US State Department’s annual review of human rights in Ethiopia, issued in March 2008, provided a disingenuous analysis of the situation, noting that “fighting between government forces and the [ONLF…] resulted in widespread human rights abuses.” The report then singled out only the ONLF for “widespread human rights abuses” while implying that crimes committed by government forces occurred when “forces acted independently of government control.”

Posted by: b real | Jun 12 2008 15:41 utc | 19

A million here, 500,000 there, pretty soon, oh, scratch that, the well of tax payers funded shite is everlasting when it's not your money funding it!

DOJ Pours Cash Into Dubious Abstinence Org

An organization that promotes sexual abstinence for teens received a federal grant of over a million dollars, twice what it had requested, despite the skepticism Department of Justice staffers had about the group and the fact that it refused to participate in a congressionally mandated study.

Also see, DOJ Gives Golf Group $500,000 to Fight Crime

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 12 2008 16:43 utc | 20

HKOL, I couldn't find your Wayne Madsen link, instead it was to the original Counterpunch article.

The closest I could find was this subscription-only article headline from January 2006.

If you have it could you please re-post?

Posted by: jonku | Jun 12 2008 16:58 utc | 21

I'd take Wayne Madsen with a huge grain of salt...

Take his info, but be skeptic...

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 12 2008 17:12 utc | 22

michael klare article @ tomdispatch
Garrisoning the Global Gas Station: Challenging the Militarization of U.S. Energy Policy

American policymakers have long viewed the protection of overseas oil supplies as an essential matter of "national security," requiring the threat of -- and sometimes the use of -- military force. This is now an unquestioned part of American foreign policy.

On this basis, the first Bush administration fought a war against Iraq in 1990-1991 and the second Bush administration invaded Iraq in 2003. With global oil prices soaring and oil reserves expected to dwindle in the years ahead, military force is sure to be seen by whatever new administration enters Washington in January 2009 as the ultimate guarantor of our well-being in the oil heartlands of the planet. But with the costs of militarized oil operations -- in both blood and dollars -- rising precipitously isn't it time to challenge such "wisdom"? Isn't it time to ask whether the U.S. military has anything reasonable to do with American energy security, and whether a reliance on military force, when it comes to energy policy, is practical, affordable, or justifiable?
...

dilip hiro: To Cope With Oil Shock, Emulate Japan

With the price of oil rocketing to the unprecedented level of $130 a barrel, there is a talk of another oil shock. Unfortunately, unlike past instances, this one is unlikely to subside, and may indeed keep intensifying. The only way out is for Western nations, the gluttonous users of petroleum, to cut their consumption and emulate Japan in its consistent drive for energy efficiency and alternate sources.

The present explosion in oil prices is the fourth of its kind, but different from the previous ones in 1973-74, 1980 and 1990-91. The earlier oil shocks were caused by interruption of supplies from the Middle East, respectively due to the war between the Arabs and Israel, the Iranian revolution, and Iraq’s invasion and occupation of Kuwait. Once peace returned, the new order became established or the invader was expelled, supplies returned to normal.

This time, though, there’s an imbalance between supply and demand, with no short-term prospect of the two balancing each other.
...

Posted by: b real | Jun 12 2008 18:55 utc | 23

the excellent media education foundation has just released a documentary film based on klare's 2004 book
michael t. klare's blood & oil

The notion that oil motivates America's military engagements in the Middle East has long been dismissed as nonsense or mere conspiracy theory. Blood and Oil, a new documentary based on the critically-acclaimed work of Nation magazine defense correspondent Michael T. Klare, challenges this conventional wisdom to correct the historical record. The film unearths declassified documents and highlights forgotten passages in prominent presidential doctrines to show how concerns about oil have been at the core of American foreign policy for more than 60 years – rendering our contemporary energy and military policies virtually indistinguishable. In the end, Blood and Oil calls for a radical re-thinking of US energy policy, warning that unless we change direction, we stand to be drawn into one oil war after another as the global hunt for diminishing world petroleum supplies accelerates.

Posted by: b real | Jun 12 2008 19:08 utc | 24

latest michael weinstein analysis on somalia - The West Wins a Pyrrhic Victory in Somalia

weinstein drills in on the key bit in the controversial agreement b/w a faction of the ARS and the TFG on monday

Paragraph 7c states that "the ARS shall, through a solemn public statement cease and condemn all acts of armed violence in Somalia and dissociate itself from any armed groups or individuals that do not adhere to the terms of this Agreement," including a ninety-day renewable cease-fire that would begin in early July. This provision severs the A.R.S.'s diplomatic faction from its military faction, which has been making gains on the ground in its insurgency against the Ethiopian and T.F.G. forces, and was opposed to the Djibouti talks, depriving the diplomatic faction of bargaining leverage and making it dependent on the West, whose strategy was to split the A.R.S. in order to "isolate" its military wing; that is, the diplomatic faction of the A.R.S. has been co-opted.

weinstein goes on to provide a quick sketch of the west's role in last 18 months, making it more clear than he ever has of how the west has tried to shape the political situation in somalia. this recent bout of talks in djibouti was the latest effort to divide the opposition. the problem now though, as he correctly points out, is that the u.s. has actually strengthened the insurgency, since the military wing is the one that holds any power at this time and the ahmad/adan faction of the political wing now looks to have basically capitulated to the west/ethiopia. the idea that the u.n. will send troops into somalia so that ethiopia can begin to remove its troops is one most observers & experts do not take seriously. that contingent of the political wing, viewed by the u.s. as the "moderates", has now been entirely "delegitimized" in the eyes of many, and plays into (the so-called extremist) aweys' favor. the military wing again is where the real power rests & it has pledged to fight on until the ethiopian occupiers are driven out of somalia.

as weinstein mentions, no details have come out yet on exactly what it was that made ahmad capitulate & sign such an agreement. in the previous open thread i posted on the inner city press blogging from the u.n. security council entourage's visit to djibouti last week, which remarked that the u.n. was offering attendees asylum so long as they sign something. icp's matthew russell lee opined

With this gang, coercion may not be the right word. But the sincerity of commitments under duress remains dubious.

waiting for more details but, in the meantime, weinstein's analysis is pretty solid

Posted by: b real | Jun 13 2008 4:43 utc | 25

In These Times on U.S. government funding of foreign media: No Strings Attached? - How U.S. funding of the world press corps may be buying influence

the U.S. government is secretly funding foreign news outlets and journalists. Government bodies — including the State Department, the Department of Defense, the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), the Broadcasting Board of Governors (BBG) and the U.S. Institute for Peace (USIP) — support “media development” in more than 70 countries. In These Times has found that these programs include funding hundreds of foreign nongovernmental organizations (NGOs), journalists, policy-makers, journalist associations, media outlets, training institutes and academic journalism faculties. Grant sizes can range from a few thousand to millions of dollars.

Posted by: b | Jun 13 2008 7:28 utc | 26

@ jonku 21
This
is the correct link to Madsen's assertions, which didn't appear at his own web site, to my knowledge. Sorry to have pasted in the wrong link. I have no trouble with Uncle Scam's suggestion to add salt, especially in this case. Still, there may be something it. At best, however, what is reported there would only be circumstantial evidence for darker suspicions.


With regard to darker suspicions, perhaps b can shed some light on this German affair with
coupled with foreign intrigue.

Posted by: Hannah K. O'Luthon | Jun 13 2008 7:42 utc | 27

Tariq Ali in a good long piece on Afghanistan: AFGHANISTAN: MIRAGE OF THE GOOD WAR

More strategically, Afghanistan has become a central theatre for reconstituting, and extending, the West’s power-political grip on the world order. It provides, first, an opportunity for the us to shrug off problems in persuading its allies to play a broader role in Iraq. As Obama and Clinton have stressed, America and its allies ‘have greater unity of purpose in Afghanistan. The ultimate outcome of nato’s effort to stabilize Afghanistan and us leadership of that effort may well affect the cohesiveness of the alliance and Washington’s ability to shape nato’s future.’ [26] Beyond this, it is the rise of China that has prompted nato strategists to propose a vastly expanded role for the Western military alliance. Once focused on the Euro-Atlantic area, a recent essay in nato Review suggests, ‘in the 21st century nato must become an alliance founded on the Euro-Atlantic area, designed to project systemic stability beyond its borders’: ...

Posted by: b | Jun 13 2008 7:57 utc | 28

@ Hannah K. O'Luthon, jonku, et al...

Wayne Madsen's Bogus Intelligence "Sources"
Alex Constantine Rant

But then again, you have to then take AC w/salt too...

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 13 2008 8:01 utc | 29

@ Uncle Thanks for the link to Constantine's rant. We all tend to rant in part because of such factors as b's link in 26. Trying to decide what's believable and what isn't is easy only for those eager to believe what they're told to believe. In trying to understand the relations between cajoling and coercion, between self-deception and programmatic lying, between good faith and arrant cynicism as steps in the governmental-mediatic tango, I find myself increasingly inclined to give credence to the worst hypothesis at any given moment, knowing full well that a day or a week or a month later I will realize that my notion of "worst" was far, far too charitable.

By the way, take a look at this very small example of
spiteful bureaucratic chickenshit, wherein the curator of the Federation of American Scientists Project on Government Secrecy was removed from a mailing list after offering corrections (very minor and of interest only to historians
of U.S. diplomacy) to government publications on foreign relations of the United States. The FAS Secrecy project is, in my opinion, professional and low-key, albeit with a clear bias in favor of greater openness (which I fully share). I assume this will soon be rectified.

Posted by: Hannah K. O'Luthon | Jun 13 2008 8:30 utc | 30

Thank you both, for following up with the original link and a refutation.

From my limited point of view, when we see a person clanging on the bell of their belief it diminishes the point they make.

So the Alex Constantine rant against Wayne Madsen seems like a personal attack and less credible as a refutation of WM's tenuous report of an "Israeli art student" explaining her role.

There is much misinformation and poor information mixed in with the factual information, small as it is. Perhaps we all admit that we can pick and choose our favorite interpretations of what is really happening.

As human beings we have the ability, curse or blessing to be able to review contradictory narratives and act according to our own analysis.

So bring it on! I am having a great time reading the supposed transcripted conversations at tbrnews.com -- at the very least the writer has a pretty good handle on controversial conspiracy issues including JFK, CIA recruiting of anti-soviet nazi agents, the death of a recently-retired DCI and so on.

If not the writer has a terrific sense of humor, unlike the debka editors who lack even basic english skills.

Posted by: jonku | Jun 13 2008 9:17 utc | 31

It's a big no to the lisbon treaty in Ireland! Votes splitting 60% No 40% yes

Posted by: drunk as a rule | Jun 13 2008 10:11 utc | 32

@drunk as a rule - Great!!! A big Thank you very much to all Irish people who voted against this.

Posted by: b | Jun 13 2008 10:53 utc | 33

stimulus

The World Famous BunnyRanch with a proud 53-year history of stimulating its clients now doubles your pleasure!

The first 100 clients to bring their U.S. Federal Stimulus Check to the BunnyRanch, in order to cash, will get double the amount of the check on their Ranch Pleasure Party.

Posted by: b | Jun 13 2008 16:47 utc | 34

There is much misinformation and poor information mixed in with the factual information, small as it is. Perhaps we all admit that we can pick and choose our favorite interpretations of what is really happening.

As human beings we have the ability, curse or blessing to be able to review contradictory narratives and act according to our own analysis.

Aye there's the rub.

What to do about that very large percentage of we, that being humanity, that cares not for factual information at all?

How can any analysis be complete when factual information is completely disregarded, to say nothing of seeking clarity in the cacaphony of mis/dis-info the entirely decrepit "old media" purveys?

I was reading some Monbiot essays and he wrote of a Brit rag that wrote an entirely false story about the efficacy of the US's backward sex-ed programs...

How can it be called "open minded" if one ignores information that is damaging to your favourite pet thing, regardless of whatever this thing is.

Information that shows, quite conclusively, that your pet thing is factually baseless.

There is talk of impeachment in the air and for very good reason, they are criminal for actions that have been ably outlined quite factually by many here.

Fantastic claims were made by BushCo and they provided far less than fantastic evidence.

For you see, it is those that make the claims that must provide the facts; not for the leery to disprove.

Regardless, a very large percentage of the humans will still hew to this pet thing called "leader of the free world" or "Christians don't do genocide" or "beacon on the hill" or "the country of my yout".

This happens all the time, regardless of thing.

To humanities continued detriment...

Did anyone swing for Vietnam, yet another US version of "the Polish are coming"?

Posted by: jcairo | Jun 13 2008 18:35 utc | 35

Mukasey: "Fuck SCOTUS!! We don't agree. The Military Trials will continue!!"

Mukasey: Detainee ruling won't stop terror trials

Attorney general criticizes Supreme Court's Guantanamo ruling, says won't halt military trials

MARK SHERMAN
AP News

Jun 13, 2008 07:54 EST

The Supreme Court's decision on Guantanamo Bay will unleash a torrent of court filings from detainees seeking their freedom but won't affect the military trials planned for some terrorism suspects, Attorney General Michael Mukasey said Friday.

The Bush administration disagrees strongly with the high court's decision that the foreigners held under indefinite detention at the Guantanamo naval base in Cuba have the right to seek release in civilian court. President Bush said Thursday he would abide by the decision, but also said his administration was evaluating whether to respond to the court's ruling with new legislation.

In Brussels, Belgium, on Friday, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said he would reserve judgment on "what we ought to do next" at Guantanamo until he received briefings on the ruling.

"I have often said that ... we would like to close Guantanamo," Gates said. "I think that despite the fact that in many respects Guantanamo has become a state-of-the-art prison now, early reports of abuses and so on unquestionably were a black eye for the United States."

Thursday's much-anticipated 5-to-4 ruling was the third time the justices have repudiated Bush on his ambitious and hugely controversial schemes to hold the suspects outside the protections of U.S. law.

Speaking at a Group of Eight meeting of justice and home affairs ministers in Tokyo, Mukasey said, "I'm disappointed with the decision, in so far as I understand that it will result in hundreds of actions challenging the detention of enemy combatants to be moved to federal district court."

He added: "I think it bears emphasis that the court's decision does not concern military commission trials, which will continue to proceed. Instead it addresses the procedures that the Congress and the president put in place to permit enemy combatants to challenge their detention."

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 13 2008 19:15 utc | 36

click below for news of 58 year old dead guy.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/13/tim.russert/index.html

Timmy!

Posted by: gus | Jun 13 2008 21:06 utc | 37

yes, tim russert is dead. anything else gus?

Posted by: Lizard | Jun 13 2008 23:26 utc | 38

b@28: it is absolutely maddening that amerikans are incapable of grasping the concept of TWO unjust wars being fought for the greedfucks who should find themselves, if justice existed for these miscreants, facing the loud end of a rifle in a firing squad.

Posted by: | Jun 13 2008 23:30 utc | 39

me @39

Posted by: Lizard | Jun 13 2008 23:33 utc | 40

nothing yet gus? well, here's a little nugget i lifted from the comments section of another thread on another site. I'm pretty sure it came from Huffington, but i'll check to make sure:

June 4, 2008

Wonder of wonder and miracle of miracles! Tim Russert, perhaps swept away in all the Hope and Change that's sweeping the nation tonight, has had himself an epiphany of epic proportions, speaking words so remarkable that I nearly fell out of my chair in disbelief. Digg this: Tim Russert believes that there just might be a role that the media can play in keeping the election year focus geared towards big issues that are important to the American people, as opposed to the usual panoply of flag lapel pin nonsense! He actually said this!

Actually, he said this:

"But in an interesting way...it's a role I think the media can play in really trying to keep pushing this back to this big debate on big issues and not get caught up in a lot of this minor squirmishing that goes on and videotape that gets released where we just run wild with it and sit back and say, what happened? Why did we not cover some of these big differences like Iraq, like Iran, like negotiating around the world, like health care?"

I know! Tim Russert, forswearing "running wild" with videotape? This suggests that Meet The Press could undergo a radical format change! Cover Iraq? Iran? Health care? YES YOU CAN!

Of course, only time will tell! Russert has really put down a marker of his own tonight. He's made us all a promise that we can only hope he'll prove himself man enough to keep. I can tell you this: should Russert fail, he has now set himself up with his own gotcha quote. We'll see, we'll see. (And we'll note with irony that this quote included the title of Scott McClellan's book!)

could even the threat of Meet The Press trying to keep the national focus on the big issues be enough to take Russert out? i wouldn't put any action past 'em. if they can use the false flag mass murdering of thousands of amerikans to kill hundreds of thousands of iraqis, they can take out a pesky little journalist who runs a show once known for asking tough questions.

Posted by: Lizard | Jun 14 2008 0:16 utc | 41

Lizard - Network?

Posted by: Tantalus | Jun 14 2008 0:29 utc | 42

what a despicable subspecies journalists are - crowing over their complicity in crimes of the state & calling it courage

on this day as in others it is the people of iraq who ought to be mourned their unnecessary deaths

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jun 14 2008 1:49 utc | 43

Tantalus: very appropriate. knew vaguely the plot, but Wiki's synopsis is great.

by the way, i don't subscribe to my above speculation, but who knows anymore. what i do know is those BIG ISSUES we face as a nation sure won't get discussed this Sunday, because the posthumous celebration of Russert's professional and personal achievements will be in full swing. So if it was a natural death, Tim's untimely heart attack will undermine what he thought amerika's reporters and anchors needed: a little reminder that no one outside of corporate media gives a fantastic fuck about lapel pins and pant suits.

i wonder, who will NBC, i mean GE, select to take over MTP? I think Dan Rather would do a good job, considering he seems to have grown a pair after his scapgoat removal. He's even suing CBS, or whatever conglomerate behemoth owns it, for 70 million dollars. we'll see.

Posted by: Lizard | Jun 14 2008 2:45 utc | 44

'giap: they have become a despicable subspecies because the ones with real integrity and courage couldn't live with themselves pandering to power like most of 'em do. even the good ones turn eventually if they want to make a living, support family, etc.

recently the open arms for Scottie, a man whose job it was to lie to the press to cover Turd Blosson, Scooter, Dick, et al, exposed the MSM panting, whorish position in relation to govt power.

is it just plain ambition, or is proximity to power really that seductive?

i was at a wedding a couple weeks ago, and i ran into this guy i knew in high school. he manages a band called Big Head Todd and the Monsters, and apparently met Bill and Hillary at a post-party event after the band played a fundraiser for Hillary. He kept telling me how they're just people, like us, and how Hillary tossed him a beer from a cooler, and Bill was cool and funny. no matter how much i tried to explain that the Clintons are not good people, he wouldn't budge, perhaps because he was drunk. perhaps because i was drunk also, i said i'm sure some of the girls Ted Bundy lured into his car thought he was charismatic too until he killed them. Ted Bundy, for anyone who doesn't know, is a notorious serial killer known for his charm. i don't see much of a difference between Ted Bundy and Bill Clinton--actually i have more respect for Ted Bundy because when he killed people he actually did it himself, not with a pen from the oval office.

Posted by: Lizard | Jun 14 2008 5:06 utc | 45

another tidbit from this article has Brian Williams saying some interesting stuff about things that slip from the president's mouth we'll never know about.

Posted by: Lizard | Jun 14 2008 5:19 utc | 46

The "west" is winning in Afghanistan

or not?

Taliban Free 1,200 in Attack on Afghan Prison

In a brazen attack, Taliban fighters assaulted the main prison in the southern Afghan city of Kandahar on Friday night, blowing up the mud walls, killing 15 guards and freeing around 1,200 inmates. Among the escapees were about 350 Taliban members, including commanders, would-be suicide bombers and assassins, said Ahmed Wali Karzai, the head of Kandahar’s provincial council and a brother of President Hamid Karzai.

Posted by: b | Jun 14 2008 6:17 utc | 47

The War on Drugs ...

Legal Drugs Kill Far More Than Illegal, Florida Says

An analysis of autopsies in 2007 released this week by the Florida Medical Examiners Commission found that the rate of deaths caused by prescription drugs was three times the rate of deaths caused by all illicit drugs combined.
...
The Florida report analyzed 168,900 deaths statewide. Cocaine, heroin and all methamphetamines caused 989 deaths, it found, while legal opioids — strong painkillers in brand-name drugs like Vicodin and OxyContin — caused 2,328.

Drugs with benzodiazepine, mainly depressants like Valium and Xanax, led to 743 deaths. Alcohol was the most commonly occurring drug, appearing in the bodies of 4,179 of the dead and judged the cause of death of 466 — fewer than cocaine (843) but more than methamphetamine (25) and marijuana (0).

Posted by: b | Jun 14 2008 6:45 utc | 48

ah, drugs. the ghettoes got crack, the boondocks got meth. attention deficit? limp dick? no worries. pain from chemo? better not touch that illicit plant that seems to do everything. also, i heard the darkies and beaners like that shit, so better keep respectable white people away from it.

Posted by: Lizard | Jun 14 2008 7:10 utc | 49

Uncle: are you kidding? boobs4iraq? we are deep in the hole and there is no ladder.

Posted by: Lizard | Jun 14 2008 7:36 utc | 50

sorry, meant boobs4barack

Posted by: Lizard | Jun 14 2008 7:39 utc | 51

another week where the narrative of 'success' (a success that my comrade slothrop also seems to see) has been confronted by the bitter difficulties of reality

in iraq & afghanistan - the empire has suffered humiliating defeats - militarily & politically

only the clowns who cackle as commentators on that most venereal medium television/cable are capable of structuring 'success' from shit & shame

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jun 14 2008 18:08 utc | 52

boobs4barack? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!?

--

Mayor Bloomberg, speaking before Congress in a governor's conference,
said, "America is committing slow suicide", last in infrastructure
spending but first in "defense" spending, although they're not defending
US from what Bloomberg foresees as American bankrupcy.

"Go look at Vancouver (BC). American technology companies are setting
up new development centers there to attract the best talent in the
world, which US immigration denies them. At our own company (Bloomberg)
executive meetings are being held less and less in the US because no one
wants to deal with (US DHS, TSA, INS) coming in and going out."

--

While Nancy Pelosi blocks the Bush-Cheney impeachment-indictment process,
Diane Feinstein is lobbying for full citizen legal status for the Taliban.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!

--

Desperate hunt for 1,100 who fled Afghan jail in Taliban raid

The Taliban have engineered probably the greatest escape in world history today,
right under the noses of US:UK forces "stabilizing" Kandahar from their isolated
base 20 klics away.

Expect a lot of helicopter gunships and UAVs SAW-gunning anything that moves,
and ignoring questions later, probably the greatest single death count in GW3.

--

Iraqi ministers have firmly concluded that the US-proposed permanent occupation
and oil royalties "sharing" agreement are "indefensible, and unacceptable to us".
So now what? Slap on the Star of Islam armbands, and herd them into death camps?

US Defense is burning through $21B a month, with the greatest number of enablers
in human existence circling up the wagons before that giant burning faggot c'fuck.
The 4% Solution

--

WHERE IS ALL OUR HARD WORK AND WEALTH GOING, IF NOT TO US!?

Posted by: Cyn Deralla | Jun 14 2008 18:18 utc | 53

I did not know that...

I did not know that either...

I mean, as long as we're blogging about deckchair trivia.

Posted by: Tou Can | Jun 14 2008 19:16 utc | 54

some comic relief for a saturday night
I'm voting republican

Posted by: dan of steele | Jun 14 2008 21:04 utc | 55

Senate hearings interrupted to stop testimony June 10th 2008

On two consecutive days, hearings conducted by the Senate Judiciary Committee were suspended when Republicans invoked the rarely used "two hour rule" that states no hearing can run more than two hours. ANP cameras were covering both hearings as part of ongoing stories and were able to capture the latest moves in the political chess match both parties are currently waging on Capitol Hill.

Thugs shut the hearings down as soon as Philippe Sands starts testifying, while war profiteer Sen. Di fi is only to happy to comply...

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 14 2008 22:33 utc | 56

uncle

they really are scum

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jun 14 2008 22:58 utc | 57

Yes comrade r'giap...

"they" being, all concerned, all concerned are scum...

I wish I had read the blockquote description before I had posted that, because it is misleading as hell...

This is no fucking chess match, this is a game between the opponent and complicit fake opposition TAKING A DIVE!

To wit:

A knockout feigned by prearrangement between prizefighters: The challenger took a dive.

An exaggerated fall, especially by a hockey player, intended to draw a penalty against an opponent.

In a word, kabuki...

Only thing better than owning your own team is owning the team who step up against em as well.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 14 2008 23:09 utc | 58

hahahahaha...

All major US airlines expected to be in default by year end
Fuel costs threaten to bankrupt airlines

Several large carriers will likely be forced into bankruptcy by the end of the year, according to a new study.

Several large airlines will likely be forced into bankruptcy by the end of the year, according to a study released Thursday.

If oil prices continue to hover at around $130 a barrel, all the major airlines will be in default on various debt covenants within the next eight months, according the report by the Business Travel Coalition and industry consultant Airline Forecasts.

The report looked at debt obligations and revenue trends for all 170 carriers operating in the United States.

“The elephant in the room is that these carriers are going to be at risk of bankruptcy by the fourth quarter of this year or the first quarter of next year,” said Kevin Mitchell, chairman of the Business Travel Coalition, a trade group for corporate travel planners.

Nearly 40% of the organization’s members are based in the New York metro area.

“The impact on New York of even just one failure would be pretty significant from an economic standpoint,” Mr. Mitchell said.

In better economic times, a gap in service left by the failure of one airline would be immediately be filled by another. With so many airlines struggling under the weight of escalating fuel costs, however, “You can no longer expect immediate backfill [of those flights],” Mr. Mitchell said.

As a result, airline service will be even less reliable, according to the study, and any conveniences afforded to business travelers would suffer.

As the financial capital of the U.S., New York depends on the movement of human capital, Mr. Mitchell said. “It’s about having the ability to get people in there to make deals.”

The price of oil has risen more than 85% over the past 12 months and now sits at $134.74 a barrel. Airlines would have to increase fares across the board by an average of 20% to make up for the budget overruns caused by their 2007 fuel costs, according to the study.

How ya like my new marketing ad?

Fly the unfriendly skies, we treat you like shit, and you pay us to do so.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 15 2008 3:22 utc | 59

Via...Inspector Lohmann: America: A Eulogy

The utterly corrupt and cynical monied oligarchy that actually runs this country also of course controls the mass media. The last thing they want to do is to ignite a mass movement such as happened around civil rights and against the Vietnam war in the 60’s and 70’s. The oligarchy fears and loathes us–the toiling middle classes and poor of the United States. They learned the hard lessons of the 60’s and 70’s, and they now know how to keep the disempowered disempowered. They learned how to cut off a budding mass movement before it can get off the ground. So they feel secure and free to go about their theft of the rest of us. “Keep them in debt and scared.” That is their slogan. Bush and Cheney are their front men of the moment. Behind Bush and Cheney is the oligarchy–several thousand extremely evil, scheming, corrupt, and disgusting individuals drunk on power and money. The own multiple homes, belong to exclusive clubs, sit on corporate boards. They think and act like demigods, but they have clay feet, and the republic they are tearing down will bring them down as it crumbles.

Gore Vidal’s Article of Impeachment


Try reading these while listening to the late Bryn Jones, otherwise known as, Muslimgauze ...

talk about deeper levels of of myopic degeneration & severity... You don't need the sweet leaf for this...lol

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 15 2008 4:59 utc | 60

A FIERCE UNWILLING

Words have failed. Our speech is scripted dialogue.
No top-down tricks will nourish empty stomachs.
Old ways persists; purification of fire; cleansing
of flood; protection of bloodlines; poverty of spirit...
(that's enough)

The echo chamber is busy tonight.
A cyber-herd revels in a flurry of posting. You see
we feed on proof of the lie, tossing memes on the table
like poker chips. I see your amerikan fascism and
raise you a covert eugenics program adopted from
Germany.

So you shake with rage at the pump?
It's almost summer, and the pinnacle of our discontent
is far enough for a few more barbecues and limited
road trips with the family. Do that. Enjoy the glimpse
of living beyond our means one last time before it
slips from our fingers and survival is the final keyword.

In a world where death is the accepted side effect
of a system that funnels the bulk to the bloated tip
the collectives that will emerge in the wake of collapse
must stay focused.

The will of the landlord is strong.

Posted by: Lizard | Jun 15 2008 7:27 utc | 61

Not new, but for the first time reported rather completely by McClatchy now: America's prison for terrorists often held the wrong men

Akhtiar was among the more than 770 terrorism suspects imprisoned at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. They are the men the Bush administration described as "the worst of the worst."

But Akhtiar was no terrorist. American troops had dragged him out of his Afghanistan home in 2003 and held him in Guantanamo for three years in the belief that he was an insurgent involved in rocket attacks on U.S. forces. The Islamic radicals in Guantanamo's Camp Four who hissed "infidel" and spat at Akhtiar, however, knew something his captors didn't: The U.S. government had the wrong guy.
...
An eight-month McClatchy investigation in 11 countries on three continents has found that Akhtiar was one of dozens of men — and, according to several officials, perhaps hundreds — whom the U.S. has wrongfully imprisoned in Afghanistan, Cuba and elsewhere on the basis of flimsy or fabricated evidence, old personal scores or bounty payments.
...
This unprecedented compilation shows that most of the 66 were low-level Taliban grunts, innocent Afghan villagers or ordinary criminals. At least seven had been working for the U.S.-backed Afghan government and had no ties to militants, according to Afghan local officials. In effect, many of the detainees posed no danger to the United States or its allies.

The investigation also found that despite the uncertainty about whom they were holding, U.S. soldiers beat and abused many prisoners.

Recommended ...

Posted by: b | Jun 15 2008 14:10 utc | 62

And now for MOA's Sunday night entertainment:


Al Green sits in with Chicago (SLYT with a massive side order of awesome).

Life before ProTools, eh?

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 15 2008 22:36 utc | 63

I wonder, about these things, you know, while we are here day after day documenting the fall; all or mostly all uselessly for nothing...

George W Bush meets Pope amid claims he might convert to Catholicism ?

wonder if he had this epiphany after or before, ITALY [DECIDED IT WILL BE] DEPLOYING MILITARY FOR DOMESTIC LAW ENFORCEMENT, with his God psychosis...

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 16 2008 2:28 utc | 64

for b real and others interested

Mercinaries to Somalia:

Agreement between Secopex CSA and Col. Yusuf

While passing through Paris in early May, President Abdullahi Yusuf signed a security agreement with a French private company based in Carcassonne.

According to TTU, a Paris based newsletter specialising in the defence industry, the French company Secopex CSA has initialled a contract with President Abdullahi Yusuf, concerning support for maritime security in Somalia, the creation of a coastal intelligence unit and the training of the Somalian presidential guard.
...
However, this agreement is not a binding contract whose terms would oblige the Somalian government to pay for Secopex's services. The French company now has to persuade international donors (European Union, International Maritime Organisation and the International Monetary Fund - IMF) to cough up for this ambitious project to bear fruit. That is where the shoe pinches. Secopex's services are estimated to cost in a range of €50 to €100 million a year, for three years.

Posted by: b | Jun 16 2008 8:00 utc | 65

Part II of McClatchy's Gitmo story: U.S. abuse of detainees was routine at Afghanistan bases

KABUL, Afghanistan — American soldiers herded the detainees into holding pens of razor-sharp concertina wire, the kind that's used to corral livestock.

The guards kicked, kneed and punched many of the men until they collapsed in pain. U.S. troops shackled and dragged other detainees to small isolation rooms, then hung them by their wrists from chains dangling from the wire mesh ceiling.

Former guards and detainees whom McClatchy interviewed said Bagram was a center of systematic brutality for at least 20 months, starting in late 2001. Yet the soldiers responsible have escaped serious punishment.
...

Posted by: b | Jun 16 2008 12:38 utc | 66

Here'a a link to an mp3 file
of Sibel Edmonds and Luke Ryland discussing her case with Scott Horton.
Since my sound card is kaput, I can't listen, but would be interested in learning if anything significant is said.

Posted by: Hannah K. O'Luthon | Jun 16 2008 14:48 utc | 67

@65 - yea, the story broke in the press sunday. i spent a brief amt of time last night investigating it. that link is a copy of the indian ocean newsletter report from may 31st, which points out that the agreement was signed early may. what i gathered from other sources was that secopex is the first PMC in france (that's what i read but not so sure about that) and has personnel ties to DoD. what i found interesting is that the bulk of the agreement is reportedly about combating piracy, yet it also calls for secopex to train a presidential guard for yusuf. no direct evidence to substantiate this claim, but yusuf is likely involved in the piracy. TFG soldiers are known to be involved. puntland leaders, of which yusuf still holds reign, are involved. puntland troops, since they aren't drawing paychecks due to limited revenue competing w/ unlimited corruption of muse/yusuf et al, are involved. yusuf's clan members, as we've read here, are involved. from what i understand, since there's little formal govt infrastructure, there are no import taxes, biz taxes, incoming cash flow, etc, so the piracy/ransom business is one of the few sources of generous income.

yusuf signed a similar agreement w/ the u.s. firm top cat marine security several years ago & nothing became of that (though the context is quite different now). it's not guaranteed that the secopex agreement will materialize. i'd like to find out more info about what dyncorp is already doing in somalia, but, as the GAO pointed out in a recent audit, even the USG doesn't feel the need to be transparent when it comes to how they're spending $$ in somalia or what their plans are. slim chance of getting that kind of data on private sector ops, which is sorta the point, i suppose.

Posted by: b real | Jun 16 2008 14:53 utc | 68

Thanks again to b and b real for the Secopex links.

Although I'm well aware that stories like this suicide in Iraq picked up via Antiwar.com undoubtedly could be mirrored by hundreds of others in which the victims are Iraqis, I still think this is worth reading, and contemplating, as is the associated
link to Military Times which gives further detail. The "blowback" from American troops who come to realize that they have been used as pawns in a cruel and cynical scam will very likely be a recurring disturbance to U.S. politics for decades to come, just as the consequences of the misbegotten Vietnam adventure are still being felt.

Posted by: Hannah K. O'Luthon | Jun 16 2008 15:26 utc | 69

john pilger: Obama Is A Hawk

In 1941, the editor Edward Dowling wrote: "The two greatest obstacles to democracy in the United States are, first, the widespread delusion among the poor that we have a democracy, and second, the chronic terror among the rich, lest we get it." What has changed? The terror of the rich is greater than ever, and the poor have passed on their delusion to those who believe that when George W Bush finally steps down next January, his numerous threats to the rest of humanity will diminish.

The foregone nomination of Barack Obama, which, according to one breathless commentator, "marks a truly exciting and historic moment in US history", is a product of the new delusion. Actually, it just seems new.
...
Understanding Obama as a likely president of the United States is not possible without understanding the demands of an essentially unchanged system of power: in effect a great media game.

immanuel wallerstein: Obama's Victory? How Big? How Far?

If one analyzes the situation in detail, state by state, the only state that voted Democratic in 2004 in which McCain seems to be competitive today is Michigan. The states that Bush won in 2004 in which Obama is competitive are numerous - Ohio, Indiana, Iowa, Missouri, New Mexico, Colorado, Virginia, and maybe Nevada, North Carolina, and Montana. He's even doing well enough in Mississippi that Republicans will have to invest money and time campaigning there. If Obama won all the competitive states except Michigan, he'd have 310-333 electoral votes. He needs 270.

The picture looks even better in senatorial races, where Democrats might win in some states in which Obama cannot quite make it - for example, Kentucky, where the Republican minority leader in the Senate is in serious trouble in this very Republican state.

Now what will this mean? Obama is not planning some revolutionary turnabout in U.S. politics. He is surrounded by a lot of conventional Democratic politicians and advisors. But he will be swept into power by a wave of enthusiasm for change that the United States has not seen since Kennedy's election. True, there is only so much he can do on the world scene, despite the fact that he will be cheered on by the entire rest of the world. The global geopolitical anarchy is far beyond the control of any American president today.

But he will be pushed to make important changes within the United States. Of course, the very election of an African-American will represent a remarkable cultural change, and cannot fail to have a great impact. His electors will expect him to launch the equivalent of another New Deal internally - health care coverage, tax restructuring, job creation, salvaging the pensions. How much he can do depends in part on the global recession, which is largely beyond his control, but even so forceful leadership can play an important role up to a point.

Posted by: b real | Jun 16 2008 15:54 utc | 70

another stereotype shattered.

Sweden sets sights on new snoop law

aSKoD, have the pirates prepared a response?

Posted by: dan of steele | Jun 17 2008 17:44 utc | 71

Letting Sibel Edmonds Speak:An interview with Sibel Edmonds and Luke Ryland

Interview conducted June 12, 2008. Listen to the interview.

Scott Horton: Hi, folks, this is Antiwar Radio on KAOS 92.7 FM in Austin, Texas, streaming live also from Antiwar.com/radio, and I'd like to welcome back to the show Sibel Edmonds, gagged by the state secrets privilege, former contract translator for the FBI, and the best investigator and storyteller on her case, Luke Ryland, from LetSibelEdmondsSpeak.blogspot.com.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 18 2008 2:15 utc | 72

3 wks ago i pointed out in a comment about a story in the kenyan, the use of the pretext of u.s. personnel/troops sinking boreholes. that tale, part of a series of ruminations upon the death of the notorious spy chief james kanyotu, mentioned that the cia, while using kanyotu to help sneak their agents out of libya in early 1991 & temporarily housing them in kenya, mentioned that

To throw off-scent any nosy characters, signposts were erected purporting that American peace-corps were coming to help sink boreholes in the remote reaches of Mwingi District.

i commented at the time that it "makes one wonder even more about all those borehole's the CJTF-HOA troops are reportedly working on in uganda & elsewhere in the region."

a story in nairobi's daily nation on wednesday leads us to another real example of this pretext in action, right in kenya.

Are US marines burying nuclear waste? asks MP

A member questioned the presence and actions of United States marines in North Eastern Province.

Mr Farah Maalim (Lagdera, ODM), asked Foreign Affairs minister Moses Wetang’ula to clarify whether the 80 marines in his constituency were doing more than drilling boreholes for the residents.

Mr Maalim, who is also the deputy Speaker, said the marines had been in the arid area for over a year and had not succeeded in getting water for the residents.

The ODM MP asked whether the marines were there to bury nuclear waste. He accused the marines of operating under a lot of secrecy, saying that local leaders, including the provincial administration and councillors [sic] were in the dark about the activities of the US soldiers.

Justice minister Martha Karua, who is the deputy leader of Government Business, gave an undertaking to communicate the request for a ministerial statement to Mr Wetang’ula.

now either this maalim fellow is trying to get some govt accountability about this issue in his area on the sly, or perhaps make their semi-permanent visitors a bit uncomfortable, or else he's completely out of touch w/ what's transpired there in the past 18 months.

according to the wikipedia entry on Operation Enduring Freedom - Horn of Africa

In November, 2006, a United States Marine detachment was in the town of Garissa in Kenya's North Eastern Province, adjoining Somalia. Officially, the Marines were an engineering detachment conducting a humanitarian mission of drilling bore holes in conjunction with the Kenya military to support flood relief. However, locals speculated that the Marines were performing a reconnaissance mission close to the Somali border

one of those accounts of speculation reported

The North Eastern Provincial commissioner, Mr Kiritu Wamae, was last week forced to call an impromptu public meeting to dispel the negative perception about the presence of the troops in town. He insisted that the marines were on a humanitarian mission in the region and were working in partnership with the Kenya Army officers.

Wamae said the soldiers planned to drill 10 boreholes in Garissa District.

Critics, however, cast doubts on the explanations. The presence of the American soldiers in North Eastern Province has raised speculations that they may be on a mission to raid suspected terrorist cells in neighbouring Somalia.

Some think the borehole project was designed to hoodwink locals to welcome the troops so that their main mission could sail through without any hitch.

of course the skeptics were correct, as the invasion of somalia took place barely a month later.

so borehole projects do appear to still be a pr operation intended 'to throw off-scent any nosy characters.'

judging from raila's reception & remarks at today's csis forum, don't expect the deputy speaker to get much traction out of the coalition govt.

Posted by: b real | Jun 18 2008 4:09 utc | 73

apologies for the poor grammatical construction in #73 - first 'graph reads better as

3 wks ago i pointed out, in a comment on a story in the kenyan press, the use of the pretext of u.s. personnel/troops sinking boreholes to provide cover for covert ops. that tale, part of a series of ruminations upon the death of the notorious spy chief james kanyotu, mentioned that the cia, while using kanyotu to help sneak their agents out of libya in early 1991 & temporarily housing them in kenya, used the following trick

Posted by: b real | Jun 18 2008 4:13 utc | 74

US military "justice" an oxymoron to be sure. at least as long as it's mere wogs these goons are murdering.

A total of eight Marines were initially charged in 2006 over the case but prosecutors have struggled to make the allegations stick.

So far seven of the accused have either been acquitted or had charges withdrawn before court martial.

Chessani's acquittal on Tuesday leaves just one defendant -- Staff Sergeant Frank Wuterich -- facing prosecution. Wuterich's trial has been scheduled for later this year.

Wuterich faces multiple charges of voluntary manslaughter for his role in the deaths, which occurred after a deadly roadside bombing that claimed the life of a Marine in Haditha, 260 kilometers west of Baghdad, in 2005.

Many of the victims were unarmed men, women and children.

Four soldiers were initially charged with murder and four officers accused of covering-up the incident.

Posted by: ran | Jun 18 2008 4:27 utc | 75

U$: props to Al Green and Muslimgauze in the same thread? umm, marry me?

I recently went months listening to little besides Betrayal

A friend of mine and I are incurable collectors of his music, though he was so freakin' prolific it's a daunting task.
.

Posted by: ran | Jun 18 2008 4:39 utc | 76

the redoubtable Lenin's Tomb on the countless war crimes perpetrated on Fallujah

sickening.

Posted by: ran | Jun 18 2008 5:36 utc | 77

is criticizing Tim Russert for being the corporate shill he was unfair exploitation in the wake of his death? no, it's not. and this article does a great job of explaining why unraveling corporate media's veneration of one of their best operatives is an important step to the realization of how dangerously mediated the mainstream message has become.

Posted by: Lizard | Jun 18 2008 6:22 utc | 78

US Special Forces counterinsurgency manual leaked or "How to train death squads and quash revolutions from San Salvador to you"

Related to this?

At Least 51 Are Killed in Blast at Baghdad Market

The precision of the explosion, aimed to kill so many, raised the possibility that it was set off specifically to fan sectarian tensions, as has often been the case in this war.

---

Syria: U.N. Doubts Nuclear Ability

No evidence suggests that Syria has the skilled personnel or the fuel to operate a large-scale nuclear plant, Mohamed ElBaradei, the director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, told Al Arabiya television. The United Nations agency added Syria to its watch list in April.

---

Israel Agrees to Truce with Hamas on Gaza

The prime minister and defense minister of Israel have agreed to an Egyptian-brokered cease-fire with Hamas for the Gaza area starting Thursday, Israel Radio reported on Wednesday morning.

Egyptian and Hamas officials had already announced on Tuesday that a deal had been reached.

Not sure how long that will hold ...
Events on Tuesday, meanwhile, showed that both sides were liable to fire up to the last minute. Israel carried out three airstrikes in Gaza against what the military described as "terrorist operatives." Six Palestinian militants were killed, according to medical officials in Gaza.

---

Nobody could have forseen ...

Pakistani Fury Over Airstrikes Imperils Training

The Pakistani military is so angry over the American airstrikes here last week that it is threatening to postpone or cancel an American program to train a paramilitary force in counterinsurgency for combating Islamist militants, two Pakistani government officials said.

Some Pakistani officials are convinced that the Americans deliberately fired on their military, killing 11 men from the very paramilitary force the Americans want to train, an accusation the Americans deny.

---

Posted by: b | Jun 18 2008 6:29 utc | 79

Iraqi Official: Security Pact Altered

U.S. and Iraqi officials negotiating long-term security agreements have reworded a proposed White House commitment to defend Iraq against foreign aggression in an effort to avoid submitting the deal for congressional approval, Iraq's foreign minister said yesterday.

The alternative under discussion will pledge U.S. forces to "help Iraqi security forces to defend themselves," rather than a U.S. promise to defend Iraq, Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari said. Although "it's the other way around," he said, "the meaning is the same, almost."
...
Zebari said Obama told him that the Iraqi government and people could be sure that, "if there would be a Democratic administration, it will not take any irresponsible, reckless, sudden decisions or action" that would endanger security gains.
...
Obama "wants redeployment, he wants a timetable" for withdrawal, Zebari added. But "he is not interested to pull all the troops out. He wants a residual force" to continue fighting terrorists in Iraq, protect U.S. diplomatic facilities and possibly continue training Iraqi security forces.

Obama has spoken of such a "residual" force, without specifying where it would be based or how many troops it would include. Denis McDonough, who advises Obama on foreign policy, yesterday confirmed much of Zebari's account of their conversation, saying that the two "discussed" where residual U.S. troops would be based and that "at least some of that force will have to be in Iraq."
...

Zebari is of course a Bush mouthpiece ...
---
CIA Played Larger Role In Advising Pentagon
Torture "is basically subject to perception," CIA counterterrorism lawyer Jonathan Fredman told a group of military and intelligence officials gathered at the U.S.-run detention camp in Cuba on Oct. 2, 2002, according to minutes of the meeting. "If the detainee dies, you're doing it wrong."
Perception ...
The newly released documents show that in the summer of 2002, Pentagon officials compiled lists of aggressive techniques, soliciting opinions from the CIA and others, and ultimately implementing the practices over opposition from military lawyers who argued that the proposed tactics were probably illegal and could harm U.S. troops.

---

Who would have foreseen ...

Audit Faults KBR's Repairs of Hurricane Damage

Efforts by defense contractor KBR to repair hurricane-damaged Navy facilities were deemed shoddy and substandard, and one technical adviser alleged that the federal government "certainly paid twice" for many KBR projects because of "design and workmanship deficiencies," the Pentagon's inspector general reported in an audit released yesterday.

---

This guy is on the fiance and banking senate committee ... is he incompetent or corrupt?

Senators Deny Knowing Of Home Loan Favoritism

Senate banking committee Chairman Christopher J. Dodd said yesterday that he knew he was part of a "VIP" mortgage program offered by Countrywide Financial, but he said he was not aware that the privilege included waiving fees that regular customers must pay to obtain lower interest rates.
...
Dodd borrowed $506,000 at 4.25 percent to refinance a Capitol Hill townhouse, originally purchased in 1999, and $275,042 at 4.5 percent to refinance a home in East Haddam, Conn.

Rather than requiring him to pay the full amount to obtain the reduced mortgage rates, as other customers must, Countrywide waived three-eighths of a point, or about $2,000, on the first loan and a quarter-point, or $700, on the second.

4.25 percent? And Dodd says he didn't know that was extraordinary ...

---

Continuation of McClatchy's Gitmo story: Militants found recruits among Guantanamo's wrongly detained

U.S. troops detained him in 2002, although he had no clear ties to the Taliban or al Qaida. By the time Farouq was released from Guantanamo the next year, however — after more than 12 months of what he described as abuse and humiliation at the hands of American soldiers — he'd made connections to high-level militants.

In fact, he'd become a Taliban leader.
...

Posted by: b | Jun 18 2008 7:52 utc | 80

Tim Russert - arrested by the Karma Police

Posted by: jcairo | Jun 18 2008 8:59 utc | 81

after reading Lizard's link @78

Russert = confirmation bias

I'm sorry, I can't accept yout argument, it is too full of Russert.

Posted by: jcairo | Jun 18 2008 9:18 utc | 82

Sorry, too full of Russert

Posted by: jcairo | Jun 18 2008 9:23 utc | 83

Meanwhile in metropolis...

Anybody care to count the use of the adjectives of "disgusting" and or "spineless", "incompetent"?


Democrats Cave, Rove Won't Have to Testify Under Oath

hahaha... A whole website and hundreds perhaps thousands, dedicated to denial...

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 18 2008 11:17 utc | 84


Should have linked to this.. in my #84

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 18 2008 11:35 utc | 85

Sabotage manual from 1944 advises acting like an average 2008 manager House/Senate committee

Excellent dkos comment from my 85 post:

This isn't leadership, it is sabotage.

(1) Insist on doing everything through "channels." Never permit short-cuts to be taken in order to expedite decisions.
(2) Make "speeches." Talk as frequently as possible and at great length. Illustrate your "points" by long anecdotes and accounts of per­ sonal experiences. Never hesitate to make a few appropriate "patriotic" comments.
(3) When possible, refer all matters to committees, for "further study and considera­tion." Attempt to make the committees as large as possible — never less than five.
(4) Bring up irrelevant issues as frequently as possible.
(5) Haggle over precise wordings of com­munications, minutes, resolutions.
(6) Refer back to matters decided upon at the last meeting and attempt to re-open the question of the advisability of that decision.
(7) Advocate "caution." Be "reasonable" and urge your fellow-conferees to be "reason­able" and avoid haste which might result in embarrassments or difficulties later on.
(8) Be worried about the propriety of any decision — raise the question of whether such action as is contemplated lies within the juris­ diction of the group or whether it might conflict with the policy of some higher echelon.

it's continuous to here Combined Arms Research Library
Digital Library

Sound familiar?

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 18 2008 11:50 utc | 86

yet more data on the benign practise of Russerting or stovepiping information:

Data on Antidepressants Suppressed for Years Giving Distorted View of Safety Effectiveness

you can hear them in the boardroom, "what's a few deaths when it helps so many? death is 100 persent you know."

except the drugs do not to appear to behave at all like they have claimed

it would seem they chose their favourite interpretation of what is really happening and ignored information during testing/followup showing their pet thing is a less than helpful dangerous thing

this is not medicine, this is therapeutic touch in sheep's clothing

they are assholes


Posted by: jcairo | Jun 18 2008 15:16 utc | 87

Private US security firms operate in Germany in a legal limbo

The German government on Tuesday confirmed a report in the daily Leipziger Volkszeitung newspaper which said that private US security firms, under contract by the US military, are operating in Germany without a bilaterally negotiated legal status.

The private US security companies are cooperating with the US command for military operations in Africa (Africom), based in the southern German city of Stuttgart.

Under US law, the private security firms are to conduct draconian interrogations of suspects which could be branded as torture in Germany.

Responding to a query by a conservative German lawmaker, the Berlin government stated based on a US-German agreement, dating back to the initial post-World II years of American occupation in Germany, it approved the activities of two private American security companies.

According to the head of AFRICOM, General William E. Ward, private security specialists are deployed in the so-called 'global US war on terror' which means they could also be used to torture alleged terror suspects at the US military base in Stuttgart.

Posted by: b real | Jun 18 2008 15:51 utc | 88

An interesting tidbit on Urban Moving Systems from Mike Rivero's WRH. In itself this proves nothing, of course, but, if further substantiated, could be rather discomforting. This, along with many other non-events, seems to me much more important than Michelle Obama's psychological struggles regarding her role in hubby's campaign, but I'm sure the mainstream media will not agree.

Posted by: Hannah K. O'Luthon | Jun 18 2008 16:01 utc | 89

@Hannah - I have no idea what that is about. Could you please explain?

Posted by: b | Jun 18 2008 18:45 utc | 90

ô uncle

over there at dkos - they weep & moo about the natural death of the complicit criminal, tim russert - but rarely a breath of what has happened about haditha & its (non)cosequences, the complete absence of analysis of what is happening in afghanistan, even less on pakistan - i go to that site in the same way i am a voyeur to the televisual evangilicals - to watch clinically how crass certitudes become criminal

i know some of our posters & some of our alumni like susang work over there - but i find it without seriousness at best & like a demented mickeymouse club at worst

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jun 18 2008 19:16 utc | 91

"...like a demented mickeymouse club at worst"

indeed...

And that is the worst atrocity of them all, when a society runs from it's abusers into the arms of a would be savior, only to be abused by the rescuers.

These predator's are in a club alright, the club of the elite, and they prey on the weak. A demented elite club and you ain't in it, as George Carlin says.

I am forever amazed at even the educated and sensible, unbeknownst to them and among them, (the kossacks) whom only see part of the picture and are forever doing the gatekeepers work for them.

Justifying, rationalizing and minimizing the complicity of the so called "opposition" party.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 18 2008 22:09 utc | 92

RBS issues global stock and credit crash alert
Seems pretty official to me.

snip...

"Globalisation was always going to risk putting G7 bankers into a dangerous corner at some point. We have got to that point," (Bob Janjuah, credit strategist for The Royal Bank of Scotland) said.

US Federal Reserve and the European Central Bank both face a Hobson's choice as workers start to lose their jobs in earnest and lenders cut off credit.

The authorities cannot respond with easy money because oil and food costs continue to push headline inflation to levels that are unsettling the markets. "The ugly spoiler is that we may need to see much lower global growth in order to get lower inflation," he said.

"The Fed is in panic mode. The massive credibility chasms down which the Fed and maybe even the ECB will plummet when they fail to hike rates in the face of higher inflation will combine to give us a big sell-off in risky assets," he said.

Kit Jukes, RBS's head of debt markets, said Europe would not be immune. "Economic weakness is spreading and the latest data on consumer demand and confidence are dire. The ECB is hell-bent on raising rates...

Posted by: Monolycus | Jun 19 2008 4:09 utc | 93

I suppose http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=60407&sectionid=351020201>this
is one of the fruits of Maliki's visit to Tehran. Wonder what he gets in return? Although, no one knows where MEK (or MKO) is suppose to go, or any country willing to take them in. France, where their leader resides under house arrest? Not likely. If they weren't on that pesky terrorist list they could probably come here (USA) and join up with one of our charismatic groups.

Posted by: anna missed | Jun 19 2008 4:31 utc | 94

The big looting begins ...

Deals With Iraq Are Set to Bring Oil Giants Back


Four Western oil companies are in the final stages of negotiations this month on contracts that will return them to Iraq, 36 years after losing their oil concession to nationalization as Saddam Hussein rose to power.
...
The first oil contracts for the majors in Iraq are exceptional for the oil industry.

They include a provision that could allow the companies to reap large profits at today’s prices: the ministry and companies are negotiating payment in oil rather than cash.

“These are not actually service contracts,” Ms. Benali said. “They were designed to circumvent the legislative stalemate” and bring Western companies with experience managing large projects into Iraq before the passage of the oil law.

A clause in the draft contracts would allow the companies to match bids from competing companies to retain the work once it is opened to bidding, according to the Iraq country manager for a major oil company who did not consent to be cited publicly discussing the terms.

Assem Jihad, the Oil Ministry spokesman, said the ministry chose companies it was comfortable working with under the charitable memorandum of understanding agreements, and for their technical prowess. “Because of that, they got the priority,” he said.

Posted by: b | Jun 19 2008 4:59 utc | 95

if we're talking about oil, could it really be this simple?

Posted by: Lizard | Jun 19 2008 5:18 utc | 96

@ b 90
Urban Moving Systems was (apparently) a Mossad front operating out of New Jersey under the direction of (katsa?) Domenick Sutter, who fled to Israel shortly after 9/11. The "dancing Israelis" (scroll down, or search for "Kurzberg") who celebrated 9/11 while watching the twin towers burn were connected to Urban Moving Systems, which, I believe, also had a reputation for lousy
work and shady practices as a moving company.


Five of the Israelis came to the FBI's attention after they were seen by New Jersey residents on Sept. 11 making fun of the World Trade Center ruins and going to extreme lengths to photograph themselves in front of the wreckage. The FBI seized and developed their photos, one of which shows Sivan Kurzberg flicking a cigarette lighter in front of the smouldering ruins in an apparently celebratory gesture.

The link above also has a copy of an FBI message to Italian
authorities regarding surveillance of suspected terrorists in which Sutter was included.


There's a lot more in this line of "conspiracy theory" on the net (or at least there used to be) and it has been worked over by Wayne Madsen and Justin Raimondo, just to cite two examples (admittedly not unimpeachable sources).

The point is that Urban Moving Systems is as close as one is likely to get to a "documented Mossad front operation": to learn that in the 8 or 9 months before they shut down (or were shut down) in the wake of 9/11, UMS received almost half a million dollars in U.S. government funding is surely worth mention, and clarification. I doubt that either will be forthcoming, since the Michelle Obama "issue" seems to be much more important for the Russerts, Blitzers, and Coopers of the justly disdained main-stream media. (McClatchey is an exception.)

It may be that these allegations are all false and constitute mere anti-semitism, but I, an acknowledged conspiracy theorist wacko, think they are, rather, the tip of an iceberg. Of course, even assuming that Urban Moving Systems was a Mossad front does not imply that the money came from U.S. spooks: presumably the Mossad is well-enough connected within the Washington bureaucracy to shake lose almost half a million bucks without even breaking a sweat. I would like to know more about that funding. Was it approved, perhaps, during the Clinton administration?

Meanwhile, this worthwhile interview with Noam Chomsky and Ilan Pappe is being ciruclated by Jewish Peace News. A quote from Chomsky


... it is no secret that the policies that have taken shape accord well with the recommendations of Moshe Dayan right after the 1967 war: Palestinians will "continue to live like dogs, and whoever wishes may leave." More extreme recommendations have been made by highly regarded left humanists in the United States, for example Michael Walzer of the Institute for Advanced Studies in Princeton and editor of the democratic socialist journal Dissent, who advised 35 years ago that since Palestinians are "marginal to the nation," they should be "helped" to leave. He was referring to Palestinian citizens of Israel itself, a position made familiar more recently by the ultra-right Avigdor Lieberman, and now being picked up in the Israeli mainstream. I put aside the real fanatics, like Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz, who declares that Israel never kills civilians, only terrorists, so that the definition of "terrorist" is "killed by Israel"; and Israel should aim for a kill ratio of 1000 to zero, which means "exterminate the brutes" completely. It is of no small significance that advocates of these views are regarded with respect in enlightened circles in the US, indeed the West. One can imagine the reaction if such comments were made about Jews.

Posted by: Hannah K. O'Luthon | Jun 19 2008 5:51 utc | 97

Thanks, HKOL for the link at 89.

There are a few well-documented, or at least well-accepted stories before, during and immediately after the 9/11 airplane crashes.

One I have mentioned before is that there was a buzz of controversy on the radio mid-day in NYC about what to do about 7 World Trade Center, just across the plaza from the two attacked towers. I remember hearing discussion of it on the car radio and wondering what they were talking about.

As it turns out, the building "fell down" that evening, perhaps 8 or 10 hours after the twin towers collapsed. It seemed clear at the time that building 7 had been mined with explosives and demolished.

Keep in mind that this was my impression on the day itself, far in advance of conspiracy theories. I was assuming that the fire department or other official group had put in explosives to remove a potential threatening collapse.

Another credible story is the Israelis who were arrested, shortly after being seen viewing the collapsing towers from across the Hudson River, near Jersey City in a park. They were in, or linked to a white van that was registered to the moving company cited in HKOL's post.

They were let go, apparently. That company, per the link, was given a Federal contract for over $400k? The company left an abandoned warehouse and a few vans as I recall.

If we pay a bit of attention to fellow barflies' link to Sibel Edmunds' story a fairly clear picture begins to emerge.

In this picture you can see that it might be possible that things are not what they seem, in fact lots of people get paid for pulling the wool over our eyes.

Posted by: jonku | Jun 19 2008 6:43 utc | 98

Thanks HKOL - I had forgotton the name ...

Fitting - this from the FT:

US N-weapons parts missing, Pentagon says

The US military cannot locate hundreds of sensitive nuclear missile components, according to several government officials familiar with a Pentagon report on nuclear safeguards.
...
According to previously undisclosed details obtained by the FT, the investigation also concluded that the air force could not account for many sensitive components previously included in its nuclear inventory.

One official said the number of missing components was more than 1,000.
...
Adm Donald briefed Congress on the results of his investigation on Wednesday. Bryan Whitman, Pentagon spokesman, declined to comment on the classified report.

A senior defence official said the report had “identified issues about record keeping” for sensitive nuclear missile components. But he stressed that there was no suggestion that components had ended up in the hands of countries that should not have received them.

But Daryl Kimball, executive director of the Arms Control Association in Washington, said the revelation was “very significant and extremely troubling” because it meant the US could not establish the positive control referred to by Mr Gates.

“It raises a serious question about where else these unaccounted for warhead related parts may have gone,” said Mr Kimball. “I would not be surprised if the recent Taiwan incident is not the only one.”

Posted by: b | Jun 19 2008 8:21 utc | 99

I'd be interested in hearing our MOA expert b real's take on
this essay on economic development in Africa by Edward Miguel and the collected comments on it found here. Such discussions may soon be the order of the day in the U.S., if Obama accedes to the presidency.

Posted by: Hannah K. O'Luthon | Jun 19 2008 9:15 utc | 100

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