Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 18, 2008
The Media Tale of Sectarian Conflict

A frontpage NYT piece on Lebanon is, as the Angry Arab finds, extremely inaccurate and sounds like written by the Hariri press office. Today’s WaPo wrap up of the last week in Lebanon is a bit better, but still misses many aspects of the actual conflict. For reliable analysis one should read Karim Makdisi at Counterpunch or this account of an anonymous German Lebanon correspondent at Syria Comment.

What the two mainstream pieces try is to shape the meme of sectarian Shia-Sunni conflict as the base of what happened. This is the same tale the U.S. (and the Saudis) have used in their divide and rule strategy in Iraq. In reality the split is much more a political than a religious one and with many more groups and interests involved than just Sunni and Shia.

The NYT puts it right into the headline: Hezbollah’s Actions Ignite Sectarian Fuse in Lebanon

After almost a week of street battles that left scores dead and threatened to push the country into open war, long-simmering Sunni-Shiite tensions here have sharply worsened, in an ominous echo of the civil conflict in Iraq.

The whole piece is filled with minor anecdotes that reinforce the point Sunni hate Shia, Shia hate Sunni and Hariri’s poor Sunnis, not really a militia in the blind view of the author, lost the fight.

From the WaPo piece:

Meanwhile, many Lebanese agree that the hardening of Sunni-Shiite
animosities — reminiscent of the Muslim-Christian fault line during the
country’s 15-year civil war — is likely to make any future conflict
here more violent.

In contrast to this ‘official’ view, the Syria Comment author notes:

The good news (so far): while the conflict does have a sectarian dimension – the fighters are mostly Shiites on one side, Sunnis and Druze on the other – it is still first and foremost a struggle between two irreconcilable political agendas, and has not (yet) turned sectarian, despite the best effort of pundits in the pay of the government and its Saudi masters (who control much of the Arab media) to discredit Hezbollah as hell-bent on turning Lebanon and the Levant into an Shiite-Arab foothold of a new Persian Empire.

Karim Makdisi writes:

The continued US, Israeli and Saudi obsession with Iran (which these days is being used interchangeably with “Shia’a” in a bid to fan sectarian flames) means that they will already be planning ahead for the next battle, probably in Lebanon and almost certainly in Gaza (since Hamas is placed in the “Iran” column), in order to halt the perceived Iranian gain in Lebanon last week.

Neither the NYT nor WaPo mention how much this conflict is instigated and controlled from the outside. They of course can not really do so because they are major willing tools used in this game.

It is not only the Saudi controlled Arab media that is pushing the sectarian meme. The U.S. mainstream media are marching in lockstep with them to create the bigger war, the big cauldron in the Middle East the neocons are longing for.

Comments

good points. Of course a lot of people get in the act, like the self-styled counterinsurgency experts here who echo and amplify the Hizbullah=oppressors story, adding their peculiar veneer of expertise. (One of their commenters calls them on it, pointing out:
“Here’s how the media cycle works: Pentagon leaks to its favored reporters, reporters publish in the New York Times and Washington Post, and then various indies repost the NYT and WP stories.
This is a typical PSYOPS “truth projection and reinforcement strategy”. The stories have no mention of how the Israeli assault actually boosted support for Israel, and certainly no mention of the ridiculous strategy of using proxy armies in Lebanon to spark a civil war.”

Posted by: Anonymous | May 18 2008 18:16 utc | 1

that was me

Posted by: Badger | May 18 2008 18:17 utc | 2

Hamas in the “Iran” column? Ah well, silly me, I never noticed that Hamas was a Shia militia…

Posted by: Anonymous | May 18 2008 22:31 utc | 3

Arg, the internets ate my nickname…
It was me on 3.
And of course it was a cynical indictment of the current meme, just in case some newcomer was wondering if I hadn’t undestood what Makdisi said.

Posted by: CluelessJoe | May 18 2008 22:33 utc | 4

Persistence of Memory 1
Persistence of Memory 2
Persistence of Memory 3
“THE MEANING OF NAKBA: The Nakba as an act committed by Zionism and its (Hebrew) adherents against Palestine and the (Christian and Muslim) Palestinians. Nakba rendered the Palestinians “mankubin”. English does not help translating mankubin, unless we can stretch the language a bit and call Palestinians a catastrophe-d or disaster-ed people. Unlike the Greek catastrophe, which means overturning, or the Latin disaster, which means a calamitous event occurring when the stars are not in the right alignment, the Nakba is an act of deliberate destruction, of visiting calamities upon a people, of a well-planned ruining of a country and its (native) inhabitants.” Constantine Zureik, 1948
We are all mankubin, all katrinain, not the disaster, the abandonment.

Posted by: Abadon Sharif | May 19 2008 0:02 utc | 5

there cannot be a survivor alive today whose memory is not haunted indeed tainted by the nakba of the palestinian people. horrific as the israeli state(s) have been i still find it inconscientable that someone who suffered in the shoah could allow its permutation to exist in palestine. but it has. & it has in every sense. in every sense that raul hilberg denotes the destruction of european jewry have also been those steps used to anhilate the palestinian people
the hatred is the same. it has the same roots. the same liens. when i read one of the israel lobby or their allies i am overcome with their generalised hatred of another semite people. a hatred of arabs so deep that it is foul, it is the foulest of our many wrongs. this has been especially true in the situation in lebanon
the us empire wants the anhilation of the arab people because it wants its resources. the desires of the state of israel are profoundly racist in origin, & a racism which informs its geostrategic goals
sabra & shatilla are not only sharon’s responsibility but the rsponsibility of a nation – in that moment whatever moral compass may have existed in that nation – ceased

Posted by: remembereringgiap | May 19 2008 0:20 utc | 6

this crisis may in some ways resemble a Lebanized “Boston Tea Party”

Posted by: jony_b_cool | May 19 2008 2:43 utc | 7

After reading Bush’s speech on the floor of the Knesset, promoting the Fitna, I wrote:

He better hope that all those countries don’t catch on and actually join Al Queda because he is doing everything but force them to do just that.

Bush Shuns, Gates Demands Appeasement
And today Badger reports this:

Both the Egyptian and Jordanian regimes have concluded that the Palestine-Israel talks are dead, at least for the duration of the Bush administration, Arab reports suggest. This led to an undiplomatic and possibly historic Mubarak-Bush dust-up at a Sharm-el-Sheikh conference, and a suggestion by an experienced Jordanian commentator that his country would do well to seek out a better relationship with Iran.

“Axis of (anti-Iran) moderates”: An idea whose time seems to be up
There you have it. George W Bush the Uniter. Uniting the World against America.

Posted by: Sam | May 19 2008 9:25 utc | 8

sam, He better hope that all those countries don’t catch on and actually join Al Queda because he is doing everything but force them to do just that.
personally, i don’t think that is ever going to happen, because although people have asserted time and again our actions in the ME fuel terror (how could it not) AQ (regardless of ones views regarding who fuels them) is not a secular entity nor a moderate entity. the propaganda ‘moderate’ means western or american leaning is absurd. it doesn’t, it simply means moderate as in ‘not extreme’. most people aren’t extreme and that includes middle easterners whether they are muslim or not.
bush’s promotion of fitna is what is extreme and normal people everywhere are going to be repulsed by this extremism and distance themselves hopefully resulting in a unification that utilizes what america has come to reject, diplomacy!
his country would do well to seek out a better relationship with Iran.
yeah, they should all seek out better relations w/eachother, instead of america which if they haven’t figured out by now is only interested in robbing them blind and if that entails genocide, so be it. i guess that is one notch up from israel who isn’t going to be satisfied until they are all dead.
sorry for my bluntness this morning.

Posted by: annie | May 19 2008 13:45 utc | 9

Abadon Sharif, on the may 15th anniversary i linked in memory of nakba video.
2 posts below @ #69 on that same thread b also posted “60 Myths for Israels 60 years”. thank you for your links.

Posted by: annie | May 19 2008 13:56 utc | 10

rememberinggiap #6: yes, correct, as usual. But moral compass everywhere is overruled by financier steering. And how could things be otherwise? In any human group, sports team, chamber of commerce or French Resistance, those who pay the bills and provide the labor guide the group.
annie #9: you’re great, also correct as usual, but none of this is america, israel, england, patagonia: it’s all finance, which is international and has been since before the Templars. (Vatican is big investor in slave trade 600 CE on.)
Fueling terrorists is the plan (and only needs a little direct finance) not a side effect.
Shoah bought Israel (not good for Israelis), supposed homeland for Ashkenazi as well as diaspora descendants.

Posted by: plushtown | May 19 2008 14:26 utc | 11

Kids Page at CIA. Funny.
https://www.cia.gov/kids-page/index.html

Posted by: Har Har | May 19 2008 15:26 utc | 12

none of this is america, israel, england, patagonia: it’s all finance, which is international and has been since before the Templars.
yes of course, thank you i was being sloppy.

Posted by: annie | May 19 2008 16:53 utc | 13

fyi Israel’s UN mission: Ban use of ‘Nakba’

Israel’s UN mission is seeking to outlaw use of the term Nakba, after UN Secretary-General Ban Ki Moon telephoned Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on Thursday night and expressed empathy with the Palestinian people in honor of Nakba Day.
Palestinians commemerate “Nakba”
Deputy head of Israel’s UN mission, Daniel Carmon, complained that the word Nakba is meant to undermine the legitimacy of Israel’s founding and, therefore, use of the term should be should be forbidden.
Also Thursday night, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said that when there is true peace with the Palestinians, they will no longer observe Nakba Day to mourn the creation of the State of Israel.
Speaking in Jerusalem, the foreign minister said that in the future, “the Palestinians will celebrate [their own] Independence Day. On that day, they will erase the word Nakba [catastrophe] from their lexicon.”

Posted by: annie | May 19 2008 18:07 utc | 14

annie@14
like the nazis before them – the anhilation of a people was not enough – they also want to anhilate & people & their culture

Posted by: remembereringgiap | May 19 2008 18:10 utc | 15

annie:
AQ (regardless of ones views regarding who fuels them) is not a secular entity nor a moderate entity.
Why do you think they are not a secular entity? Right after 911 we saw video footage on TV of the attackers in strip clubs and bars (subsequently scrubbed from the Islamofascism Bush meme) hardly a religious setting, especially a religion that frowns on the cosumption of alcohol. In fact it wasn’t just booze but there was also cocaine involved:

“Atta and his crew were always flush with lots and lots of money,” said Stephanie Frederickson, a 50-year old housewife and foster mother who with her husband lived right next door to Atta’s apartment. “Those guys were all really party animals.”
During their brief time together, Amanda and Atta went out almost every night, she said, and were part of a social scene at clubs like Margarita Maggie’s in Sarasota. “When we went out we would meet pilots from Africa, Germany, and there were always lots of Arabs.”
In fact, Atta was a heavy drinker, snorted coke, was a stylish dresser and wore enough expensive gold jewelry that a waitress in Venice thought he might be in the Mob.

Don’t sound very secular to me
Are we supposed to believe that Arabs that drank, snorted coke and screwed white women were really devout religious Muslims? The CBC in Canda did a profile of the attackers and instead of religious fanatics they found a well educated and well off middle class common denominator. They were evil criminals that slaughtered innocent people and religion had nothing to do with it except whoring religion to attract people to their cause.

Posted by: Sam | May 19 2008 18:40 utc | 16

Oops the link at 16 should have read:
Don’t sound very religious to me

Posted by: Sam | May 19 2008 19:13 utc | 17

Actually, it doesn’t give me any trouble to discover that Muhammad Atta drank, snorted cocaine, partied, and then carried out an act of Islamic martyrdom. I’ve seen that sort of schizophrenia before, notably in a Saudi official I once worked with. It is quite difficult to stick to Islamic law, without giving way to the weaknesses of the flesh. You have to compartmentalize your thoughts, and I should think that was what he did. (Jews are the same (Islamic law is based on Jewish); very hard to fully correspond with the law).
However, I doubt Amanda’s stories in the link about tearing cats apart; that’s just revenge.

Posted by: Alex | May 19 2008 22:40 utc | 18

Are we supposed to believe that Arabs that drank, snorted coke and screwed white women were really devout religious Muslims?
i am not sure what that has to do w/the point i was making. ted haggard snorted and engaged in the uber naughty, does that make him secular?
for a review of my point (i probably wasn’t clear enough), you said..
He better hope that all those countries don’t catch on and actually join Al Queda
my point is that if you piss people off enough, they hardly have to ‘join AQ’ to retaliate. the most logical choice might be to join a nationalist resistance group. think about it, if our government started death squading us would you join a christian militant group to retaliate?
iraq was the most secular country in the ME. there are lots of muslims all over the ME that i posit are not necessarily going to retaliate thru religious doctrine. they have armies and soldiers just like everywhere.
who promotes the religious fanaticism aspect of the oppression? we do. when you murder the sane, the fanatics take over. besides, those saudi guys were called AQ by us because it sounded good in the media. i don’t think they identified themselves as AQ. as far as i know AQ is a invention of the west used to prey on weak minded impressionable religious fanatics for the purpose of giving us an excuse to invade and keep invading. i have a lot of certainty the middle east is full of sane people able to resist tyranny w/out resorting to joining AQ. the MO of identifying resistance as a bunch of islamic extremists is a western invention.

Posted by: annie | May 20 2008 2:32 utc | 19

I’ve seen that sort of schizophrenia before, notably in a Saudi official I once worked with. It is quite difficult to stick to Islamic law, without giving way to the weaknesses of the flesh.
hey, i know catholic of priests who got drunk and screwed the choir boys. It is quite difficult to stick to christian law, without giving way to the weaknesses of the flesh.

Posted by: annie | May 20 2008 2:36 utc | 20

err, amend numero 7845 … i know of catholic priests
i know you already know..

Posted by: annie | May 20 2008 2:39 utc | 21

annie:
i am not sure what that has to do w/the point i was making. ted haggard snorted and engaged in the uber naughty, does that make him secular?
It sure doesn’t make him a devout religious figure in my eyes any more than Crefo Dollar or Jim Baker. These people that live in mansions and collect money from the poor are no more religous than a common thief as far as I’m concerned. The real religous people like the Quackers that opposed the invasion of Iraq got spied on and deemed a threat by the Defense Department. The war friendly churches got to hear Lt. General William Boykin promote hate speech from the pulpit in full military uniform. In my eyes people that fly planes into buildings, killing thousands ain’t religious. It’s just a matter of personal perspective I suppose.
my point is that if you piss people off enough, they hardly have to ‘join AQ’ to retaliate.
The problem with trying to communicate in a limited setting is trying to convey ideas in as little words as possible and me not anticipating how other people interpret those words before I post them. Perhaps I should have said – join Al Queda’s struggle. An Iraqi nationalist that is trying to free his/her country from foreign influence via resistance to the occupation isn’t nesacarily joining Al Queda but in effect is joining Al Queda’s struggle. I thought I was using a figure of speech to elucidate an idea. I don’t have Joe Leiberman to whisper in my ear about the Iran/Al Queda relationship but I never thought I needed it on this site when I posted it. My mistake.
besides, those saudi guys were called AQ by us because it sounded good in the media. i don’t think they identified themselves as AQ. as far as i know AQ is a invention of the west used to prey on weak minded impressionable religious fanatics for the purpose of giving us an excuse to invade and keep invading.
Actually Al Queda comes from an Arabic translation of the base and grew out of the struggle to free Afghanistan from Soviet occupation. Osama bin Laden openly took the reins of this organization and called an international press conference to declare war on America.
the MO of identifying resistance as a bunch of islamic extremists is a western invention.
How true. Especially when you consider they put islamic extremists into power in Iraq and disposed the secular government.

Posted by: Sam | May 20 2008 3:57 utc | 22

These people that live in mansions and collect money from the poor are no more religous than a common thief as far as I’m concerned.
yeah i agree of course, i am not sure how we got from AQ not being secular (which is what i posted) to that translating into me defending the devoutness of anyone, including AQ. never the less, binny and AQ are not secular, like say..the most secular country in the ME, prior to our invasion.
The problem with trying to communicate in a limited setting is trying to convey ideas in as little words as possible…..An Iraqi nationalist that is trying to free his/her country from foreign influence via resistance to the occupation isn’t nesacarily joining Al Queda but in effect is joining Al Queda’s struggle. I thought I was using a figure of speech to elucidate an idea.
welllll, that was sort of my point. from b’s post
This is the same tale the U.S. (and the Saudis) have used in their divide and rule strategy in Iraq. In reality the split is much more a political than a religious
re ‘joining Al Queda’s struggle’. AQ is dead meat in iraq as soon as the US is gone. this concept is fundamentally turned around imho. while i certainly agree the US presence fuels AQ, without AQ the US would loose much of its justification for being in the ME or africa.
Actually Al Queda comes from an Arabic translation of the base
hmm, wiki being wiki…my point, i’m not so sure AQ named itself AQ. i’ve read otherwise.
and grew out of the struggle to free Afghanistan from Soviet occupation.
whose struggle? it didn’t organically grow all on its own. i think there is a little missing from this picture. from your link

As a matter of law, the U.S. Department of Justice needed to show that Osama bin Laden was the leader of a criminal organization in order to charge him in absentia under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, also known as the RICO statutes. The name of the organization and details of its structure were provided in the testimony of Jamal al-Fadl, who claimed to be a founding member of the organization and a former employee of Osama bin Laden.[27]
To quote the (BBC documentary The Power of Nightmares,)documentary directly: The reality was that bin Laden and Ayman Zawahiri had become the focus of a loose association of disillusioned Islamist militants who were attracted by the new strategy. But there was no organization. These were militants who mostly planned their own operations and looked to bin Laden for funding and assistance. He was not their commander. There is also no evidence that bin Laden used the term “al-Qaeda” to refer to the name of a group until after September the 11th, when he realized that this was the term the Americans had given it.

Jamal al-Fadl

Al-Fadl was recruited to the Afghan mujahideen “through the Farouq mosque in Brooklyn” (presumably when he was in the U.S. in the mid 1980s), and he became a “senior employee” of al-Qaeda. After embezzling $110,000 from the organization, al-Fadl “defected”. He contacted the CIA via the US’s Eritrean embassy and, receiving encouragement from FBI special agents Jack Cloonan and Dan Coleman (who were “seconded” to the CIA’s Bin Laden unit), he returned (after staying in Germany for a while) to the United States, in spring 1996.
For the next three years Cloonan and his colleagues oversaw al-Fadl in a safehouse. From December 1996 Al-Fadl began to provide “a major breakthrough of intelligence on the creation, character, direction, and intentions of al Qaeda”; “bin Laden, the CIA now learned, had planned multiple terrorist operations and aspired to more” — including the acquisition of weapons-grade uranium. Al-Fadl, who had “passed the polygraph tests he was given”, became a key witness in the US v. bin Laden trial that began in February 2001.

blurb

In late 1993, bin Laden asks Ali Mohamed to scout out possible US, British, French, and Israeli targets in Nairobi, Kenya. Mohamed will later confess that in December 1993, “I took pictures, drew diagrams and wrote a report.” Then he travels to Sudan, where bin Laden and his top advisers review Mohamed’s work. In 1994, Mohamed claims that “bin Laden look[s] at a picture of the American Embassy and point[s] to where a truck could go as a suicide bomber.” A truck will follow bin Laden’s directions and crash into the embassy in 1998. Mohamed seems to spend considerable time in Nairobi working with the cell he set up there and conducting more surveillance. He also is sent to the East African nation of Djibouti to scout targets there, and is asked to scout targets in the West African nation of Senegal. [Los Angeles Times, 10/21/2000; Chicago Tribune, 12/11/2001; LA Weekly, 5/24/2002; 9/11 Commission, 6/16/2004] Much of his work seems to be done together with Anas al-Liby, a top al-Qaeda leader with a mysterious link to Western intelligence agencies similar to Mohamed’s. In 1996, British intelligence will pay al-Liby to assassinate Libyan leader Colonel Mu’ammar al-Qadhafi (see 1996), and then will let him live openly in Britain until 2000 (see 1995-May 2000). Al-Liby is said to be a “computer wizard” known for “working closely” with Mohamed. [New York Times, 2/13/2001; New York Times, 4/5/2001] L’Houssaine Kherchtou, an al-Qaeda member who later turns witness for a US trial (see September 2000), was trained in surveillance techniques in Pakistan by Mohamed in 1992. Kherchtou will claim he later comes across Mohamed in 1994 in Nairobi. Mohamed, Anas al-Liby, and a relative of al-Liby’s use Kherchtou’s apartment for surveillance work. Kherchtou sees al-Liby with a camera about 500 meters from the US embassy. [Washington File, 2/22/2001] Mohamed returns to the US near the end of 1994 after an FBI agent phones him in Nairobi and asks to speak to him about an upcoming trial. [Washington File, 2/22/2001]

sorry, i got side tracked. more about Jamal al-Fadl at the link…
again, i agree there are religious fanatics everywhere, but i don’t think this is the biggest problem. i think the biggest problem is any strong healthy powerful rational man/men who could bring peace to the ME, would probably be dead meat unless he was operating in servitude and alignment w/the US/IS. it is not as if those people don’t exist, in abundance. they are the ones that offer the gravest threat to the intended occupiers. they will be/are identified as subversives, terrorists, AQ, fanatics, you name it. we are inflaming fanatics because without them we could not have a war on terror, and for the purposes of the worst amongst us, this is essential.
ideally, i hope that all those countries do catch on and actually join together. but not as AQ. i think this would be a leap considering they are not the majority, or at least weren’t before we started the genocide.

Posted by: annie | May 20 2008 5:27 utc | 23

another thing
and grew out of the struggle to free Afghanistan from Soviet occupation.

Posted by: annie | May 20 2008 5:37 utc | 24

should read ” and grew out of OUR struggle to free Afghanistan from Soviet occupation.
No that’s not right. It wasn’t only a US struggle; there was also an Islamic struggle. The US latched onto and supported an already existing resistance.

Posted by: Alex | May 20 2008 7:55 utc | 25

annie:
never the less, binny and AQ are not secular
How do you know? Did you personally know any of the terrorists? Your link:
As a matter of law, the U.S. Department of Justice needed to show that Osama bin Laden was the leader of a criminal organization in order to charge him in absentia under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, also known as the RICO statutes.
Lets see here, bin Laden openly declares war on international TV against the US and the Justice Department needed to show he was a criminal? Say what?
This reminds me of Robert Novak on Capital Gang responding to the question of Bill Clinton fireing cruise missiles into Afghan terrorist training camps in the aftermath of the attack on the USS Cole. Novak stated – there is no proof that Al Queda did it. He’s just trying to deflect attention from the Monica Lewinksy scandal.

Posted by: Sam | May 20 2008 8:16 utc | 26

Lets see here, bin Laden openly declares war on international TV against the US and the Justice Department needed to show he was a criminal?
no, they did not need to show he was a criminal. they needed to show he was a leader of a criminal organization for the purpose of charging him under the Racketeering law. i imagine this is similar to establishing several co conspirators to establish a conspiracy.
gee, you didn’t address my point (allegation), which was that their isn’t any evidence of the origin of the identification coming from the organization itself. organization being a slippery term in this case.
nice divert.
alex grew out of OUR struggle to free Afghanistan from Soviet occupation.
No that’s not right.

really? you dont think AQ grew out of OUR struggle?…link provided below..former director of the CIA’s operation in Afghanistan: ““Our main mission was to do as much damage as possible to the Soviets… There was a fallout in terms of drugs, yes. But the main objective was accomplished. The Soviets left Afghanistan.”
It wasn’t only a US struggle; there was also an Islamic struggle.
correct, i never alleged it was only a US struggle. however, sam’s statement..never implied the US had anything to do w/AQ’s growth which it most certainly did.
we really don’t know what form the islamic struggle in afghanistan would have taken had we not spent billions, formed the ISI to channel funding… as i see it, the ORGANIZATION of the group itself, very much had roots in the US effort to organize it, thru binny, who traveled to the US for training, funded by the US.

“Throughout the world … its agents, client states and satellites are on the defensive — on the moral defensive, the intellectual defensive, and the political and economic defensive. Freedom movements arise and assert themselves. They’re doing so on almost every continent populated by man — in the hills of Afghanistan, in Angola, in Kampuchea, in Central America … [They are] freedom fighters.”
Is this a call to jihad (holy war) taken from one of Islamic fundamentalist Osama bin Laden’s notorious fatwas? Or perhaps a communique issued by the repressive Taliban regime in Kabul?
In fact, this glowing praise of the murderous exploits of today’s supporters of arch-terrorist bin Laden and his Taliban collaborators, and their holy war against the “evil empire”, was issued by US President Ronald Reagan on March 8, 1985. The “evil empire” was the Soviet Union, as well as Third World movements fighting US-backed colonialism, apartheid and dictatorship.
clip
Between 1978 and 1992, the US government poured at least US$6 billion (some estimates range as high as $20 billion) worth of arms, training and funds to prop up the mujaheddin factions. Other Western governments, as well as oil-rich Saudi Arabia, kicked in as much again. Wealthy Arab fanatics, like Osama bin Laden, provided millions more.
Washington’s policy in Afghanistan was shaped by US President Jimmy Carter’s national security advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, and was continued by his successors. His plan went far beyond simply forcing Soviet troops to withdraw; rather it aimed to foster an international movement to spread Islamic fanaticism into the Muslim Central Asian Soviet republics to destabilize the Soviet Union.
….. in 1986 CIA chief William Casey committed CIA support to a long-standing ISI proposal to recruit from around the world to join the Afghan jihad. At least 100,000 Islamic militants flocked to Pakistan between 1982 and 1992

had that commitment by the cia, not been made, we really have no idea how or if the term ‘organized‘ could be applied.

John Cooley, a former journalist with the US ABC television network and author of Unholy Wars: Afghanistan, America and International Terrorism, has revealed that Muslims recruited in the US for the mujaheddin were sent to Camp Peary, the CIA’s spy training camp in Virginia, where young Afghans, Arabs from Egypt and Jordan, and even some African-American “black Muslims” were taught “sabotage skills”.
The November 1, 1998, British Independent reported that one of those charged with the 1998 bombings of US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, Ali Mohammed, had trained “bin Laden’s operatives” in 1989.
These “operatives” were recruited at the al Kifah Refugee Centre in Brooklyn, New York, given paramilitary training in the New York area and then sent to Afghanistan with US assistance to join Hekmatyar’s forces. Mohammed was a member of the US army’s elite Green Berets.

might that be the SAME Ali Mohamed b real link’s to here, under the heading Context of ‘February 2008: Ex-US Soldier from Bosnia War Emerges as Al-Qaeda Leader in Somalia’???
binny and AQ are not secular
How do you know? Did you personally know any of the terrorists?

i read about his past. not my idea of secular. wtf difference does it make if i know any ‘terrorists’ personally.

Posted by: annie | May 20 2008 15:37 utc | 27

sorry, forgot the link
note the timeline..Al Qaeda (the Base), bin Laden’s organization, was established in 1987-88 to run the camps
that was over 10 years after the US was pouring in money “to prop up the mujaheddin factions”.
In 1986, bin Laden brought heavy construction equipment from Saudi Arabia to Afghanistan. Using his extensive knowledge of construction techniques (he has a degree in civil engineering), he built “training camps”, some dug deep into the sides of mountains, and built roads to reach them.
These camps, now dubbed “terrorist universities” by Washington, were built in collaboration with the ISI and the CIA. The Afghan contra fighters, including the tens of thousands of mercenaries recruited and paid for by bin Laden, were armed by the CIA. Pakistan, the US and Britain provided military trainers.

it was a base alright. but not just for binny.

Posted by: annie | May 20 2008 15:59 utc | 28

Zbigniew Brzezinski: “What was more important in the world view of history? The Taliban or the fall of the Soviet Empire? A few stirred up Muslims or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the Cold War?”
External Patrons & the Collapse of Moslem Polities

When external patrons gain influence over local actors, a society’s political process is warped to serve the interests of the patrons rather than the society. The numerous clients in the Mideast who knowingly sell their freedom to external patrons in return for help in fighting their domestic battles are playing with fire.

Forecast: More Chickens Coming Home to Roost

Now the State Department itself has provided shocking evidence of just how “powerful” Iraq has been as a “motivational issue to aid in the recruitment of new members.” Admittedly, from a certain perspective, that might not be considered bad news: the more al Qua’ida recruits, the easier it will be for the neo-cons to justify a war policy and the greater the profits of the military-industrial complex.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 20 2008 16:27 utc | 29

annie:
no, they did not need to show he was a criminal. they needed to show he was a leader of a criminal organization for the purpose of charging him under the Racketeering law. i imagine this is similar to establishing several co conspirators to establish a conspiracy.
When someone publicly declares war on you and then kills your civilians it is not a “conspiracy”.They didn’t need to charge him with racketeering they needed to kill him.
gee, you didn’t address my point (allegation), which was that their isn’t any evidence of the origin of the identification coming from the organization itself.
Because it is irrelevant.
correct, i never alleged it was only a US struggle. however, sam’s statement..never implied the US had anything to do w/AQ’s growth which it most certainly did.
Bullshit. As if this isn’t common knowledge? Do I have to spell everything out for you? Arabs flocked to Afghanistan to free it from Soviet occupation not because of who paid for the arms.
we really don’t know what form the islamic struggle in afghanistan would have taken had we not spent billions, formed the ISI to channel funding… as i see it, the ORGANIZATION of the group itself, very much had roots in the US effort to organize it, thru binny, who traveled to the US for training, funded by the US.
You can get a pretty good idea by looking at Afganistan today. If the US wouldn’t have funded them against the Soviets, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan still would have and did.
i read about his past. not my idea of secular. wtf difference does it make if i know any ‘terrorists’ personally.
So you read about one person’s past and you pass judgement on the entire organization? Freeing Afghanistan from Soviet occupation had nothing to do with religion. Bin Laden turning against America had nothing to do with religion. Some of the 9/11 attackers were born and bred in Europe in secular homes. The London subway bombers were home grown Brits.

Posted by: Sam | May 21 2008 1:42 utc | 30

They didn’t need to charge him with racketeering they needed to kill him.
frankly sam, i don’t think the justice department works that way. let’s review the facts shall we.
As a matter of law, the U.S. Department of Justice needed to show that Osama bin Laden was the leader of a criminal organization in order to charge him in absentia under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, also known as the RICO statutes.
call it ‘they needed to kill him’ if it suits you. but in the good ol USA, when lots of attention is focused on a particular character, they try to give the illusion of a process. (like say, saddam’s trial showing how ‘civilized’ we killed him). personally i think osama is more valuable to them alive then dead, but that is another story.
when someone is not in custody certain standards have to be met.
the origin of the identification coming from the organization itself.
Because it is irrelevant.

to you? go ahead then, admit it doesn’t matter to you if we named AQ just like we named them a terrorist organization instead of freedom fighters. what’s in a name to you? it is all irrelevant, right.
sam’s statement..never implied the US had anything to do w/AQ’s growth which it most certainly did.
Bullshit. As if this isn’t common knowledge? Do I have to spell everything out for you? Arabs flocked to Afghanistan to free it from Soviet occupation not because of who paid for the arms.

F’ng BS back at you, if that was the case we certainly didn’t have to invest BILLIONS to ‘encourage’/support/inspire/fund/train them.
If the US wouldn’t have funded them against the Soviets, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan still would have and did.
lol, seriously you crack me up. you make it appear the superpowrs efforts are irrelevant, as if we have no impact. if your absurd allegations were true, why would any US entity even bothered to be involved? we might as well shut down centcom.
So you read about one person’s past and you pass judgement on the entire organization?
earth to sam. AQ is not a secular entity. this is ME 101. i am going to emplore you again to agree to disagree. i think you are flat out wrong.
do i think there are secular people who have used the fanaticism of certain muslims to further their goals? yes. do i think AQ is fueled by a combination of western/ME/neocon funds and islamic fundamentalism? yes.
we part ways on this topic.

Posted by: annie | May 21 2008 7:19 utc | 31

sorry, for the purpose of separating our our comments, i am reposting
They didn’t need to charge him with racketeering they needed to kill him.
frankly sam, i don’t think the justice department works that way. let’s review the facts shall we.
As a matter of law, the U.S. Department of Justice needed to show that Osama bin Laden was the leader of a criminal organization in order to charge him in absentia under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, also known as the RICO statutes.
call it ‘they needed to kill him’ if it suits you. but in the good ol USA, when lots of attention is focused on a particular character, they try to give the illusion of a process. (like say, saddam’s trial showing how ‘civilized’ we killed him). personally i think osama is more valuable to them alive then dead, but that is another story.
when someone is not in custody certain standards have to be met.
the origin of the identification coming from the organization itself.
Because it is irrelevant.

to you? go ahead then, admit it doesn’t matter to you if we named AQ just like we named them a terrorist organization instead of freedom fighters. what’s in a name to you? it is all irrelevant, right.
sam’s statement..never implied the US had anything to do w/AQ’s growth which it most certainly did.
Bullshit. As if this isn’t common knowledge? Do I have to spell everything out for you? Arabs flocked to Afghanistan to free it from Soviet occupation not because of who paid for the arms.

F’ng BS back at you, if that was the case we certainly didn’t have to invest BILLIONS to ‘encourage’/support/inspire/fund/train them.
If the US wouldn’t have funded them against the Soviets, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan still would have and did.
lol, seriously you crack me up. you make it appear the superpowrs efforts are irrelevant, as if we have no impact. if your absurd allegations were true, why would any US entity even bothered to be involved? we might as well shut down centcom.
So you read about one person’s past and you pass judgement on the entire organization?
earth to sam. AQ is not a secular entity. this is ME 101. i am going to emplore you again to agree to disagree. i think you are flat out wrong.
do i think there are secular people who have used the fanaticism of certain muslims to further their goals? yes. do i think AQ is fueled by a combination of western/ME/neocon funds and islamic fundamentalism? yes.
we part ways on this topic.

Posted by: annie | May 21 2008 7:23 utc | 32

annie:
frankly sam, i don’t think the justice department works that way.
That would be the same Justice department that produced the Yoo torture memo, enemy combatants not covered by the Geneva Conventions, Gitmo and Abu Graib, and cover to torture people to death?
annie:
lol, seriously you crack me up. you make it appear the superpowrs efforts are irrelevant, as if we have no impact. if your absurd allegations were true, why would any US entity even bothered to be involved? we might as well shut down centcom.
Alex:
No that’s not right. It wasn’t only a US struggle; there was also an Islamic struggle. The US latched onto and supported an already existing resistance.
annie:
earth to sam. AQ is not a secular entity. this is ME 101. i am going to emplore you again to agree to disagree. i think you are flat out wrong.
I have given examples of people that didn’t seem very religious to me that participated in AQ. Using your logic Bush, Cheney and the neocons are all devout Christians. Like I said above it’s a matter of perspective.

Posted by: Sam | May 21 2008 12:20 utc | 33

Using your logic Bush, Cheney and the neocons are all devout Christians.
Do I have to spell everything out for you?
apparently you do sam because i am simply not understanding your numerous references to anybody’s devoutness. so w/out the use of strawmen why don’t you simply find a reference somewhere of how AQ is a secular organization. simple really. while you’re at it, find one that says the muslim brotherhood is secular too.

Posted by: annie | May 21 2008 15:13 utc | 34

i forgot to mention in my last post (again..)i am not sure how we got from AQ not being secular (which is what i posted) to that translating into me defending the devoutness of anyone, including AQ.
ring a bell?
That would be the same Justice department that produced the Yoo torture memo, enemy combatants not covered by the Geneva Conventions, Gitmo and Abu Graib, and cover to torture people to death?
exactly. i think you might be understanding my point. notice how they twisted the truth (about their identity as ‘non combatants), the law (torture isn’t really torture), our constitution (exceutive power), in order to carry out their crimes. had they just wanted..as you claim to kill him (or them) all their shinanigans would have been unnecessary.
there is a particular usefulness in weaving together an ‘organization’ that casts a net over many of our ‘enemies’ in the ‘war on terror’ for the purpose of identification. when we fight AQ wherever they may be it frees the military to chase them all over the globe without the bothersome aspect of having to inform the american public about the nature of all these separate entities and exactly how it is they are our enemies. it’s the ‘islamofascism’/AQ boogyman syndrome. or haven’t you noticed? it doesn’t pack the same punch without the islam bashing.
I have given examples of people that didn’t seem very religious to me that participated in AQ.
no shit sherlock..like say..the cia. people use the name of christ to justify killing too. people from the beginning of time have killed for religion, either w/devoutness or not.
i think we demean the actors of resistance when we assume the majority of them are members of an extremist islamic group. from wiki introduction..Al-Qaeda, alternatively spelled al-Qaida, al-Qa’ida or al-Qa’idah, (Arabic: القاعدة‎; transliteration: al-qā‘idah; translation: The Base) is an international alliance of Sunni Islamic militant organizations.
that doesn’t sound very secular to me. now if you want to argue the acts they carry out are not following islam go for it. still don’t make them secular. does it mean our attempted control and domination of the middle east does not inflame and encourage and enhance terror or boost membership in Islamic militant organizations?? NO. intelligent educated people w/a recent history of secular government (like the baath party for example) do not need AQ to carry out resistance. they may use the cover of AQ, just like the cia and US military clandestine operations use the cover of AQ. i this sense AQ can be all things to all people.
so if you want to talk about the illusionary aspects of AQ, or the various channels funding the organization thruout its history (isi, cia, mossad or whoever) then of course there are secular ties there. is THAT the point you are making? shall we just call all resistance to american imperialsm al qaeda? i’m sure this would make the psyops teams very happy.

Posted by: annie | May 21 2008 16:03 utc | 35

annie:
so if you want to talk about the illusionary aspects of AQ, or the various channels funding the organization thruout its history (isi, cia, mossad or whoever) then of course there are secular ties there. is THAT the point you are making?
I pointed out secular ties amongst the 9/11 terrorists. I watched a Canadian Broadcasting Corp. investigative documentary on the background of the attackers and instead of religous fanatics they found the common denomicator was an educated well off middle class. The premise they made was that they were surprised at the lack of religion. Their actions before the attack revealed they were hanging out at strip clubs not mosques. This is all I pointed out that at least some of them didn’t seem very religious to me.
no shit sherlock..like say..the cia. people use the name of christ to justify killing too.
And those people are not religous either in my mind.
people from the beginning of time have killed for religion, either w/devoutness or not.
That’s my premise – “w/devoutness or not”. Some of them weren’t religious. If, not all of them are religious, then they are not really a religious organiztation.

Posted by: Sam | May 22 2008 23:11 utc | 36

this is off-topic from the main post, but related to annie & sam’s discussion
from a 2004 interview w/ mahmood mamdani shortly after the release of his excellent book good muslim, bad muslim: america, the cold war, and the roots of terror

You argue in the book that it was US policy in the Reagan years to support terrorist movements across the Third World, from Mozambique and Angola to Nicaragua and Afghanistan, in an attempt to quash militant nationalism – then equated with Soviet expansionism – with no American loss of life. You point especially to the transition from counterinsurgency to low-intensity conflict and the shift in the locus of the Cold War from Europe to the Third World during the 1980s, both as significant reorientations of US war strategy. What was the significance of these changes for the global spread of terrorism?
I focus on what I call the late Cold War, which I date from the American defeat in Vietnam to the most recent invasion of Iraq. After defeat in Vietnam, the US was faced with opposition to overseas military intervention, both at home and abroad. Kissinger was the first to respond to this changed international context. The year the Vietnam war ended, 1975, was the year the Portuguese empire collapsed. The center of gravity of the Cold War shifted from southeast Asia to southern Africa, where the former Portuguese colonies of Mozambique and Angola became independent. Kissinger looked for a pragmatic solution. Unable to intervene directly, the US looked for proxies. If the US could not intervene itself, it would have to find others to intervene on its behalf. Kissinger first tried this in Angola with South African intervention but it did not work. The day it became known, that very day it was discredited.
Ronald Reagan ideologized proxy war in a religious idiom. Reagan ideologized the Cold War as a war against “evil”, against the “Evil Empire.” His speech about the Evil Empire was first made to an annual gathering of American evangelicals. I think it is very important that we be clear about the political uses of “evil”: you cannot coexist with evil, you cannot convert evil, you have to eliminate evil. In that titanic battle, any alliance is justified.
The first alliance, which lasted throughout Reagan’s two administrations, was with apartheid South Africa, what was called “constructive engagement”. It was under the American protective umbrella that apartheid South Africa created Africa’s first genuine terrorist movement: Renamo in Mozambique, which was genuinely terrorist in the sense that it was not interested in fighting the military, its focus was on targeting civilians as a way of demonstrating that an independent African government was incapable of protecting its citizens, spreading fear. America’s responsibility in Mozambique was not direct but indirect. It did not provide direct assistance to Renamo but it did provide a political cover to apartheid South Africa for over a decade as South Africa nurtured, from scratch, a genuinely terrorist movement in an independent African country.
Whereas the US was an understudy in Mozambique, its embrace of terror became direct and brazen after the Sandinista Revolution of 1979. In Nicaragua, the US created a terrorist movement called Contras, more or less as apartheid South Africa had created Renamo in Mozambique, also from scratch. The lessons it learnt from southern Africa and central America were put into practice in Afghanistan in the concluding phase of the Cold War.
You say that, “The Reagan administration took two initiatives that were to have lasting impacts on US foreign policy. The first was to turn to the drug trade for an illicit source of funds; the second was to turn to the religious right to implement those foreign policy objectives that Congress had ruled against, thus beginning a trend toward privatizing war.” What were the lasting effects of these developments?
As I traced the history of proxy war, I was struck by how it tended to run alongside another underground development, that of drug trade, whether in Laos, Nicaragua or Afghanistan. The reason was simple: if you don’t declare war, you don’t have access to public funds to wage it. The search for funds to wage an undeclared war time and again led the CIA into an embrace of the underworld, particularly the drug lords.
The Afghan war exemplified the extreme development of two tendencies: one, the ideologization of war in a religious idiom, and two, its privatization. War no longer had national boundaries; the US was no longer interested in any Islamist group with a national orientation, which it considered too narrow. It wanted internationalist groups, groups committed to an international jihad, groups that could be relied on to join a fight to the finish. In fact, the US wanted the war to be expanded to include the Muslim populations of the Soviet Union from the outset but backed down because the Soviets threatened to retaliate with an invasion of Pakistan.
With its ideologization, war ceased to be a necessary evil; rather, it became a way of removing evil. It became a praiseworthy thing. The ideologization of war was done in heavily religious terms. By the time Afghanistan happened, war was not even conceived as a national project, as with Renamo in Mozambique or the Contras in Nicaragua. The war in Afghanistan was justified as a global jihad. To wage it, the CIA recruited volunteers globally; Muslims everywhere, in the US, in Britain, all over the world, were invited to participate in this global war. The CIA was busy creating cells everywhere, the nuclei of the same cells they are busy trying to smash today as a network of terror.
The ideologization of war also led to its privatization. The Islamist network was both global and private. What we are reaping today is the whirlwind.
At the time of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, you suggest that the Reagan administration “rescued right-wing Islamism from [a] historical cul-de-sac.” How so?
Right-wing Islamism was preoccupied with the question of power and yet was allergic to mass movements. So it had either to embrace existing forms of power – like the Saudi monarchy or the Zia regime in Pakistan – or it would remain a fringe group. It is this cul-de-sac from which the late Cold War and the American strategy rescued it.
What we need to keep in mind is that without the American project it is difficult to see how this group of intellectuals could have translated an ideological tendency into a political project. How, indeed, it could have developed the numbers, the organization, the training, the self-consciousness, the sense of mission, strategy, tactics, and so on, and come out of it with the notion that they, the Islamists, destroyed the Soviet Union, and now it was time to destroy the other superpower. None of this would have been thinkable within the short span of a decade had it not been for American policy after Vietnam and in Afghanistan.

in the book, mamdani writes

The Islamic world had not seen an armed jihad for nearly a century. But now the CIA was determined to create one in service of a contemporary political objective. Of course, the tradition of jihad is contentious. Doctrinally, the tradition of jihad as “just war” can be located in the “lesser jihad,” not in the “greater jihad.” Historically, the tradition of “lesser jihad” itself comprises two different – and conflicting – notions. The first is that of a just war against occupiers, whether nonbelievers or believers. There were four such just wars: Saladin’s jihad against the Crusaders in the twelfth century, the Sufi jihad against enslaving aristocracies in West Africa in the seventeenth century, the Wahhabi jihad against Ottoman colonizers in the Arabian peninsula in the eighteenth century, and the Mahdi’s anticolonial struggle against the combination of Turko-Egyptian and British power in late nineteenth-century Sudan. The first was against occupying nonbelievers, the second against oppressive believers, the third against occupying believers, and the fourth, against a combination of occupiers, believers and nonbelievers. The second, conflicting, tradition is that of a permanent jihad against doctrinal tendencies in Islam officially considered “heretic.” This is a tradition with little historical depth in Islam. Associated with the slaughter of Shi’a civilian populations in Iran and Iraq carried out by the Ikhwan faction of the Wahhabi movement in the eighteenth century – not to be confused with the later Egyptian Ikhwan (Society of Muslim Brothers)- this tradition is more akin to the Inquisition in Christianity than to any historical practice of jihad in Islam. The notion of a standing jihad – a state institution in defense of state interests – is identified less with historical Islam than with the later history of the House of Saud and the state of Saudi Arabia. Precisely because of its association with sectarian practices enshrined in the history of a state with such close ties to official America, an armed standing jihad was particularly appealing to CIA planners.
This is the setting in which the United States organized the Afghan jihad and that informed its central objective: to unite a billion Muslims worldwide in a holy war, a crusade, against the Soviet Union, on the soil of Afghanistan. The notion of a crusade, rather than jihad, conveys better the frame of mind in which this initiative was taken. A secondary objective was to turn a doctrinal difference between two Islamic sects – the minority Shi’a and the majority Sunni – into a political divide and thereby contain the influence of the Iranian Revolution as a Shi’a affar. The Afghan jihad was in reality an American jihad, but it became that fully only in Reagan’s second term in office.

Posted by: b real | May 23 2008 3:42 utc | 37