Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 2, 2008
Yoo Discussion is the Wrong Track

The just released Yoo memo to the Pentagon allowed all kind of torture if there is a "necessity" or a "claim of self-defense" to be made.

The Washington Post headlines Memo: Laws Didn’t Apply to Interrogators

The headline is wrong. That is not what Yoo claims. He claims that torture is not unlawful, because there is a superseding law, the constitution, that enshrines the President with certain rights or even duties to ignore statutes enacted by congress.

The Justice Department sent a legal memorandum to the Pentagon in 2003 asserting that federal laws prohibiting assault, maiming and other crimes did not apply to military interrogators who questioned al-Qaeda captives because the president’s ultimate authority as commander in chief overrode such statutes.

Yoo says the law applies but the lawful law in this case is whatever the president says. The overwhelming legal opinion seems to be that Yoo is wrong in that argument.


But the discussion is already false when it is about the lawfulness or not-lawfulness of torture under the Yoo argument.

This is not about Youngstown. This is not about congressional versus presidential powers. Indeed I believe the argument is a trick to avert the real discussion.

The question that has to be asked is this: Is there a higher law than presidential power AND law enacted by Congress?

The modern philosophical opinion is that such law exist. The inalienable rights of each human are natural law that can not be breached by any men-enacted law. What Yoo really argues is legal positivism.

the idea that legal validity has no essential connection with morality or justice. A law is a valid law if posited, in the proper manner, by a recognized authority, regardless of its moral implications.

The U.S. declaration of independence refers to natural law:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, …

Not to be tortured is an inalienable right. To push this down to a question of constitutional presidential authority versus congress enacted law is the wrong track.

The U.S. elite seems to want to avoid the real discussion. That is, I believe, the reason why congress never put much energy into getting the Yoo memos declassified.

To recognize a higher moral law for all people that also binds the U.S. would interfere with building the U.S. empire and questions its justification.

To bicker in this case about presidential versus congression power is a diversion from the real question. Does natural law and human rights restrict the imperial pursuit of American interests?

The answer is of course "Yes!" and that answer tells you why the question isn’t asked.

Sidenote:

Interestingly, like many parts of modern "western" law, the concept of unalienable rights can be tracked back to early Sharia interpretation:

The concept of inalienable rights was found in early Islamic law and jurisprudence, which denied a ruler "the right to take away from his subjects certain rights which inhere in his or her person as a human being." Islamic rulers could not take away certain rights from their subjects on the basis that "they become rights by reason of the fact that they are given to a subject by a law and from a source which no ruler can question or alter."

Maybe that is another reason why Yoo and the Empire elite do not like to discuss this?

Comments

There is another source of law higher than Presidential power or laws enacted by Congress – the U.S. Constitution. The Constitution is based on natural law, but is itself the ultimate source of all legal authority in the United States. The Constitution is quite clear on the question of torture — “nor cruel or unusual punishments inflicted.” The 8th Amendment does not confer an individual right to be free from torture — it does something much more sweeping than that. It imposes an absolute limit on the power of the federal (and by extension the state) governments. The U.S. government is a government of enumerated powers, and the 8th Amendment explicitly states that the power to torture is not such a power.
I won’t even get into how sick a worldview the Yoo memo reflects, or how it is contrary to 200 years of both American practice and jurisprudence. My point is that you don’t have to turn to natural law to find Yoo’s views to be repulsive. From a legal perspective, they’re much worse than that — they’re unconstitutional.

Posted by: Aigin | Apr 2 2008 17:45 utc | 1

and what is so disturbing to me is that so very few people are upset with the whole torture argument. whenever I bring it up in conversation the usual response is a shrug of the shoulders or a nod. there is no outrage, ever. all through my youth I believed that the US was way above that kind of thing, torture was something those evil commies did or savage europeans (you know, Count of Monte Christo and the Inquisition), we had left all that stuff behind in the old world. now, with the belief that the only ones getting tortured are evil mooslim terrorists, it doesn’t seem to be such a bad thing at all, maybe even a good thing since most believe that torture does work and saves lives by foiling plots and dastardly schemes.
I go from being disgusted to furious to amused and back again. it is not at all a pleasant experience to watch something you believed was really special get turned into shit and even less so to watch half the country cheer it on.

Posted by: dan of steele | Apr 2 2008 18:34 utc | 2

Please B, I think you are an Engineer, like myself. Please, don´t enter in that kind of “gardens”, or philosophies. Natural Law is only the Theories on the Nature. Gravitation , Maxwell, Einstein, quantics, Relativistics, Darwin, Mendeleyev,theories etc. and not too much more. The philosophies belong to other different Kingdoms. Any good student in Philo can beat a any Scientific worker speaking on Philosophy. Read Richard Feyman.
Psycology is becoming a science in this moment, but not yet.
Art and Beauty is other Kingdom.History is another Kingdom.
Politics and War is another one.
Religion can be a mix of the last ones.
Torture belongs to Psycology, Philo, Politics, and Economy.
Please don´t enter in justifications or antijustification.
Shame on the torturers!

Posted by: curious | Apr 2 2008 18:35 utc | 3

In case you missed it…
A Short History of Psychological Terror

Alfred McCoy, Professor of History at the University of Wisconsin, explores the history and use by the CIA of psychological torture in terms of how this particular form of torture was discovered, perfected and made legal

.
We can choose to use our growing knowledge to enslave people in ways never dreamed of before, depersonalizing them, controlling them by means so carefully selected that they will perhaps never be aware of their loss of personhood.”
Carl R. Rodgers, Former President of the American Psychological Association (APA)

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Apr 2 2008 18:37 utc | 4

I feel the same way, rembering especially (for me) the outrage over the Chile and Argentina torture stories from the 80’s – looks like we have arrived at that place.

Posted by: anna missed | Apr 2 2008 18:43 utc | 5

@Algin – The Constitution is quite clear on the question of torture — “nor cruel or unusual punishments inflicted.” … From a legal perspective, they’re much worse than that — they’re unconstitutional.
The question then becomes how does the U.S. constitution applies to foreigners?
If the enjoy the rights of the U.S. constitution, do they also “enjoy” the duties therein? Why? How?

@dan – all through my youth I believed that the US was way above that kind of thing, torture was something those evil commies did or savage europeans
That tells much more about the quality and subjectivity of the history lessons you got than about reality. The U.S. has tortured in many countries, many time. Not your fault to not have not learned that in U.S. schools …

@Curious – Please B, I think you are an Engineer, like myself. Please, don´t enter in that kind of “gardens”, or philosophies.
I studied a mix of industrial engineering and economics in a quite special, very broad program. My four major exam fields were automating, production management, balance sheet theories and constitutional law. Minor fields were (industrial) sociology, operations research, production technologies and economic history.
Overqualified and underqualified for all specialities at the same time. Anyway – it allows me to mouth off about many fields with a bit of half-knowledge on each of them

@anna missed – looks like we have arrived at that place.
You (U.S.) never left it – think Phillipines, Panama and other places …

Posted by: b | Apr 2 2008 19:17 utc | 6

b- Harks back to discussion elsewhere of guilt & shame – lack thereof, doesn’t it?
Laura Rozen points to various comments on Yoo memo and accompanying travesties.

WP: “Thomas J. Romig, who was then the Army’s judge advocate general, said yesterday after reading the memo that it appears to argue there are no rules in a time of war, a concept Romig found ‘downright offensive.'”

From Marty Lederman, formerly of Justice Department:

As I’ve discussed previously, …the March 14th Yoo memorandum, and the April 2, 2003 DOD Working Group Report that incorporated its outrageous arguments about justifications for ignoring statutory limits on interrogation, was secretly briefed to Geoffrey Miller before he was assigned to Iraq, and became the source of all the abuse that occurred there in 2003 and early 2004.

and

1. The classification of this memo was entirely unjustifiable. And it’s fairly outrageous that Congress didn’t release it when they received it. The classification and oversight systems are hopelessly broken.
2. The memo cites numerous other, as-yet-unreleased memos that appear to contain equally outrageous legal analysis….
5. When will Congress insist upon hearings at which Geoffrey Miller, Jim Haynes, Donald Rumsfeld, and other DOD officials, explain why they kept the Yoo memo and the Working Group Report secret — undisclosed even to the Working Group itself — and why they briefed Miller on Yoo’s multiple theories of legal absolution on his way out to Iraq? It’s no longer very hard to figure out just why, all of a sudden, as soon as Miller arrived in Iraq, everyone there just suddenly and magically came to think the Geneva Conventions, UCMJ, federal assault and torture statutes, etc., simply no longer applied — that Iraq was a law-free zone…

No surprise to many. Any with eyes to see recognized a clear case of sending the fox to guard the chicken coop, at the time that Miller was put in charge of Iraqi prisons after torture photos surfaced.
In 2006 military trial of two dog handlers at Abu Ghraib, Miller invoked Article 31.

Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller, a central figure in the U.S. detainee-abuse scandal, this week invoked his right not to incriminate himself in court-martial proceedings against two soldiers accused of using dogs to intimidate captives at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, according to lawyers involved in the case. … [A] Washington expert in military law, Fidell added: “It’s very unusual for senior officers to invoke their Article 31 rights. The culture in the military tends to encourage cooperation rather than the opposite.”

Abu Ghraib timeline: http://www.scvhistory.com/scvhistory/signal/iraq/abughraib-timeline.htm
(exceeds link limit)

Posted by: small coke | Apr 2 2008 19:21 utc | 7

b:
The question then becomes how does the U.S. constitution applies to foreigners?
The US constitution oesn’t apply to Americans either. Just ask Jose Padilla or Brandon Mayfield.

Posted by: Sam | Apr 2 2008 19:30 utc | 8

The US Constitution incorporates the Common Law of the time. Torture of prisoners was not approved in the Common Law. And generally, we’ve held that this applies to foreigners.
Anyway, Yoo’s argument is that the President has the power to order torture as part of his role as Commander in Chief, mentioned in the Constitution. That would certainly extend to torture of US citizens. But no one has advanced that theory, and certainly no US court has endorsed it.
It’s interesting and troubling that there is so much public acceptance of Yoo’s legal theory. My impression is that for most of US history, there would have been great indignation and protest at the memo. But Yoo has a position at a prestigious law school.

Posted by: Roger Bigod | Apr 2 2008 19:37 utc | 9

well b, you are right about the history lessons learned in school. I expect they are no different in any other country though. the good was emphasized and the bad ignored. we never studied the atrocities carried out against the native americans nor did we spend any time on slavery. I started grade school in 1960 and completed high school in 1972 when many things happened in the US that were significant. We had fought and lost a long war against some rice farmers in Asia, we had come very very close to a nuclear showdown over Russian missiles in Cuba, we put a man on the moon, we had a president assasinated, we had flower power and great music and lottsa sex and drugs and living was easy. We did not know of the bad things that happened in the Phillipines…that only came to light for me a few years ago when I read some rightwing swill about how the Marines dealt with those particular muslims (involved lots of pig urine and blood and leaving one survivor to go back and inform his buds). now with the internets it is a lot easier to find out about stuff. I assure you that I read a lot and a lot of different material. I even read the Rise and the Fall of the Third Reich and was both fascinated and horrified at what I found there. but I never saw anything that talked about US torture or sick things. nothing. you have to have a clue that there is something there before you can look for it, no one ever said anything to me that things were different from what they seemed. apparently then, the elites were more careful to keep up appearances.
sure I was naive and long for those times again. this feeling of revulsion and helplessness that sometimes threatens to overpower me is no where near as much fun as silly crap one does after inhaling the fumes from certain burning leaves.

Posted by: dan of steele | Apr 2 2008 19:40 utc | 10

@danos 2
24/ Jack Bauer.
Propagainment?

Posted by: small coke | Apr 2 2008 19:42 utc | 11

The US carried out atrocities in the Phillipines and Latin America, but those were never upheld by a court. It’s possible that US courts might have refused to hear cases on jurisdictional grounds, but I’m not aware of the decisions if there are any. Clearly, no one tried to justify them on the basis of a Constitutional power of the President.

Posted by: Roger Bigod | Apr 2 2008 19:52 utc | 12

the green light – torture – vanity fair

Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 2 2008 20:08 utc | 13

that was me, evidently

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Apr 2 2008 20:08 utc | 14

Fuck Yoo… and the underhandedness of Yoo’s having that elaborate 38-page memorandum all ready to go…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Apr 2 2008 20:18 utc | 15

@ danos 9
“State of Siege” (Etat de Siege) by Costa Gravas 1972, about the kidnapping in 1970 of a US AID official in Uruguay by the Tupumara guerrillas. Yves Montand played the AID official. Brilliant casting: the face of evil may present a sympathetic countenance. Still a good film.
Thinking back, it may have been that movie, and the Allende overthrow, which awoke me to our contemporary degradations. But I recall friends then, who did not believe US complicity in either case, who presumed bad apples or bad reporters, only. We all have resistance to knowing.
Costa Gravas was probably generous to Mitrione in his film narrative. From Wikipedia:

It is assessed that torture was already practiced since the 60s, but Dan Mitrione is reportedly the man who made it routine. He is quoted as having said once: “The precise pain, in the precise place, in the precise amount, for the desired effect.”. He also helped train foreign police agents in the United States in the context of the Cold War. In his torture teaching experiments he used homeless wanderers.

Posted by: small coke | Apr 2 2008 20:18 utc | 16

there is no essential difference between a dan mitrione & a john you. they were both as american as apple pie
& they both understood that most essentialist dictum – money doesn’t talk, it swears
in any case – the jurisprudence is junk, complete junk. like freisler – the screaming judge – those united states has screaming judges, screaming prosecutors at every level – from the municipal to the the supreme court
endless junk – each new law worse than the last
& can people really be surprised by the stupidity of a douglas feith – zionist spy – & impoveriushed rhetorician & the dumbest fucking man in human existence. these people excell only in their stupidity
their laws are the scriptural version of what passes for popular culture in that most barborous empire
in any case, their laws do not deman a torah like study – on the contrary they require disobediance, resistance & rejection. complete rejection

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Apr 2 2008 21:00 utc | 17

Lauren Rozen points to comments on Yoo memo, including Marty Federman, formerly of Justice Dept.
This was fuller post, but I wasn’t careful. Got flushed in the spam trap.

WP: “Thomas J. Romig, who was then the Army’s judge advocate general, said yesterday after reading the memo that it appears to argue there are no rules in a time of war, a concept Romig found ‘downright offensive.'”

Federman:

And it’s fairly outrageous that Congress didn’t release it when they received it. The classification and oversight systems are hopelessly broken.
… When will Congress insist upon hearings at which Geoffrey Miller, Jim Haynes, Donald Rumsfeld, and other DOD officials, explain why they kept the Yoo memo and the Working Group Report secret — undisclosed even to the Working Group itself — and why they briefed Miller on Yoo’s multiple theories of legal absolution on his way out to Iraq? It’s no longer very hard to figure out just why, all of a sudden, as soon as Miller arrived in Iraq, everyone there just suddenly and magically came to think the Geneva Conventions, UCMJ, federal assault and torture statutes, etc., simply no longer applied — that Iraq was a law-free zone…

Abu Ghraib timeline: http://www.scvhistory.com/scvhistory/signal/iraq/abughraib-timeline.htm

Posted by: small coke | Apr 2 2008 22:27 utc | 18

steven aftergood @ secrecy news writes

From a secrecy policy point of view, the document itself exemplifies the political abuse of classification authority. Though it was classified at the Secret level, nothing in the document could possibly pose a threat to national security, particularly since it is presented as an interpretation of law rather than an operational plan. Instead, it seems self-evident that the legal memorandum was classified not to protect national security but to evade unwanted public controversy.
What is arguably worse is that for years there was no oversight mechanism, in Congress or elsewhere, that was capable of identifying and correcting this abuse of secrecy authority. (Had the ACLU not challenged the withholding of the document in court, it would undoubtedly remain inaccessible.) Consequently, one must assume similar abuses of classification are prevalent.

they have to hide this kinda stuff under the “national security” free-pass ’cause they know it’s wrong & wouldn’t hold up for a minute to outside scrutiny.

Posted by: b real | Apr 2 2008 22:49 utc | 19

Is it torture to torture yourself about torture, because there is nothing you
can do about torture, except torture yourself about the torture? My head hurts.
Is it torture to go door-to-door selling seniors on your reverse-mortgage pitch?
Is it torture to dupe Americans with your rebate-reverse-taxation-forward come-on?
Is it torture to leave seniles in their wheelchairs except to choke a fist of pills?
You wanna see torture, go visit a slaughterhouse. You vegans, plants do scream.
http://www.gethuman.com/

Posted by: Peris Troika | Apr 3 2008 0:04 utc | 20

No, no, tha’s Bringo! to you, Peris Troika…
Sincerely yours,
-Glas nost

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Apr 3 2008 0:36 utc | 21

not only is the jurisprudence a joke but it seems a commission hearing is a means for contractors, congressmen & other criminals get the chance to start up a stand up routine without any consequences

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Apr 3 2008 0:40 utc | 22

small coke@ 10..
Propagainment, yep, 24 fits. Nice, think I’ll use it. Thanks!

Posted by: Ben | Apr 3 2008 4:14 utc | 23

If the President deems that he’s got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person’s child, there is no law that can stop him?

John Yoo publicly argued there is no law that could prevent the President from ordering the torture of a child of a suspect in custody – including by crushing that child’s testicles.
This came out in response to a question in a December 1st debate in Chicago with Notre Dame professor and international human rights scholar Doug Cassel.
What is particularly chilling and revealing about this is that John Yoo was a key architect post-9/11 Bush Administration legal policy. As a deputy assistant to then-Attorney General John Ashcroft, John Yoo authored a number of legal memos arguing for unlimited presidential powers to order torture of captive suspects, and to declare war anytime, any where, and on anyone the President deemed a threat.
It has now come out Yoo also had a hand in providing legal reasoning for the President to conduct unauthorized wiretaps of U.S. citizens. Georgetown Law Professor David Cole wrote, “Few lawyers have had more influence on President Bush’s legal policies in the ‘war on terror’ than John Yoo.”
This part of the exchange during the debate with Doug Cassel, reveals the logic of Yoo’s theories, adopted by the Administration as bedrock principles, in the real world.
Cassel: If the President deems that he’s got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person’s child, there is no law that can stop him?
Yoo: No treaty.
Cassel: Also no law by Congress. That is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo.
Yoo: I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that.
Yoo argues presidential powers on Constitutional grounds, but where in the Constitution does it say the President can order the torture of children ? As David Cole puts it, “Yoo reasoned that because the Constitution makes the President the ‘Commander-in-Chief,’ no law can restrict the actions he may take in pursuit of war. On this reasoning, the President would be entitled by the Constitution to resort to genocide if he wished.”
What is the position of the Bush Administration on the torture of children, since one of its most influential legal architects is advocating the President’s right to order the crushing of a child’s testicles?
This fascist logic has nothing to do with “getting information” as Yoo has argued. The legal theory developed by Yoo and a few others and adopted by the Administration has resulted in thousands being abducted from their homes in Afghanistan, Iraq or other parts of the world, mostly at random. People have been raped, electrocuted, nearly drowned and tortured literally to death in U.S.-run torture centers in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Guantánamo Bay. And there is much still to come out. What about the secret centers in Europe or the many still-suppressed photos from Abu Ghraib? What can explain this sadistic, indiscriminate, barbaric brutality except a need to instill widespread fear among people all over the world?
It is ironic that just prior to arguing the President’s legal right to torture children, John Yoo was defensive about the Bush administration policies, based on his legal memo’s, being equated to those during Nazi Germany.
Yoo said, “If you are trying to draw a moral equivalence between the Nazis and what the United States is trying to do in defending themselves against Al Qauueda and the 9/11 attacks, I fully reject that. Second, if you’re trying to equate the Bush Administration to Nazi officials who committed atrocities in the holocaust, I completely reject that too…I think to equate Nazi Germany to the Bush Administration is irresponsible.”
If open promotion of unmitigated executive power, including the right to order the torture of innocent children, isn’t sufficient basis for drawing such a “moral equivalence,” then I don’t know what is. What would be irresponsible is to sit by and allow the Bush regime to radically remake society in a fascist way, with repercussions for generations to come. We must act now because the future is in the balance. The world cannot wait. While Bush gives his State of the Union on January 31st, I’ll find myself along with many thousands across the country declaring “Bush Step Down And take your program with you.”

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Apr 3 2008 4:33 utc | 24

@Dan – @9 – as I said – not your fault …
btw – the German schools make sure that children learn about the third reich … though they seem to miss the role of capital, i.e. big industrialists, in the advent of the nazis.
Empire or Humanity?
What the Classroom Didn’t Teach Me About the American Empire
By Howard Zinn

I was conscious, like everyone, of the British Empire and the other imperial powers of Europe, but the United States was not seen in the same way. When, after the war, I went to college under the G.I. Bill of Rights and took courses in U.S. history, I usually found a chapter in the history texts called “The Age of Imperialism.” It invariably referred to the Spanish-American War of 1898 and the conquest of the Philippines that followed. It seemed that American imperialism lasted only a relatively few years. There was no overarching view of U.S. expansion that might lead to the idea of a more far-ranging empire — or period of “imperialism.”

Neither the discussions of “Jacksonian democracy” in history courses, nor the popular book by Arthur Schlesinger Jr., The Age of Jackson, told me about the “Trail of Tears,” the deadly forced march of “the five civilized tribes” westward from Georgia and Alabama across the Mississippi, leaving 4,000 dead in their wake. No treatment of the Civil War mentioned the Sand Creek massacre of hundreds of Indian villagers in Colorado just as “emancipation” was proclaimed for black people by Lincoln’s administration.

Posted by: b | Apr 3 2008 6:13 utc | 26

Sand Creek Massacre one of the most heinous crime ever committed by the U.S. government. Especially the aftermath.

Posted by: anna missed | Apr 3 2008 7:11 utc | 27

Vanity Fair: The Green Light
As the first anniversary of 9/11 approached, and a prized Guantánamo detainee wouldn’t talk, the Bush administration’s highest-ranking lawyers argued for extreme interrogation techniques, circumventing international law, the Geneva Conventions, and the army’s own Field Manual. The attorneys would even fly to Guantánamo to ratchet up the pressure—then blame abuses on the military. Philippe Sands follows the torture trail, and holds out the possibility of war crimes charges.

Posted by: b | Apr 3 2008 7:41 utc | 28

From the Vanity Fair piece linked above:

During September a series of brainstorming meetings were held at Guantánamo to discuss new techniques. Some of the meetings were led by Beaver. “I kept minutes. I got everyone together. I invited. I facilitated,” she told me. The sessions included representatives of the D.I.A. and the C.I.A. Ideas came from all over. Some derived from personal training experiences, including a military program known as sere (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape), designed to help soldiers persevere in the event of capture. Had sere been, in effect, reverse-engineered to provide some of the 18 techniques? Both Dunlavey and Beaver told me that sere provided inspiration, contradicting the administration’s denials that it had. Indeed, several Guantánamo personnel, including a psychologist and a psychiatrist, traveled to Fort Bragg, sere’s home, for a briefing.
Ideas arose from other sources. The first year of Fox TV’s dramatic series 24 came to a conclusion in spring 2002, and the second year of the series began that fall. An inescapable message of the program is that torture works. “We saw it on cable,” Beaver recalled. “People had already seen the first series. It was hugely popular.” Jack Bauer had many friends at Guantánamo, Beaver added. “He gave people lots of ideas.”
The brainstorming meetings inspired animated discussion. “Who has the glassy eyes?,” Beaver asked herself as she surveyed the men around the room, 30 or more of them. She was invariably the only woman present—as she saw it, keeping control of the boys. The younger men would get particularly agitated, excited even. “You could almost see their dicks getting hard as they got new ideas,” Beaver recalled, a wan smile flickering on her face. “And I said to myself, You know what? I don’t have a dick to get hard—I can stay detached.”

Posted by: b | Apr 3 2008 10:06 utc | 29

The US showed their perverted Abu Graib hand right from the start in Afghanistan when they displayed John Walker Lind’s dick to the World live on TV after they arrestted him. Hell even the publication of the Abu Graib pics just created “more outraged at the outrage” as James Inhofe put it. The man that exposed the brutality, Joseph Darby, is still in protective custody in fear of his life, while Charles Granger the convicted ringleader of Abu Graib lived openly on base. In Iraq they were even kidnapping women on their house raids when the male suspect wasn’t home and they held them for ransom to force the male to surrender. They only stopped because Reuters News Service caught them.
That tells you how far the population has come since the days of Vietnam. At least back then many of them had a sense of shame. The man that exposed the Mai Lai massacre never went into protective custody. Today the politicians promote the success of the “surge” and polls favoring the occupation of Iraq increase.
They don’t even care that their military spies on them. When I had arguments over this long before the mainstream media exsposed it I got the retort I have nothing to hide. What kind of mentality wants to invade countries that never attacked them, torture people to death and have their own military spy on them:
Yet the office, whose size and budget is classified, came under fierce criticism in 2005 after it was disclosed that it was managing a database that included information about antiwar protests planned at churches, schools and Quaker meeting halls.
Pentagon Is Expected to Close Intelligence Unit
They have to protect der homeland from those terrorist Quakers. WTF are they thinking? I just can’t comprehend it.

Posted by: Sam | Apr 3 2008 11:56 utc | 30

secrecynews followup today to #18
The OLC Torture Memo as a Failure of the Classification System

The Justice Department Office of Legal Counsel memo on interrogation of enemy combatants that was declassified this week “exemplifies the political abuse of classification authority,” Secrecy News suggested yesterday.
J. William Leonard, the nation’s top classification oversight official from 2002-2007, concurred.
“The disappointment I feel with respect to the abuse of the classification system in this instance is profound,” said Mr. Leonard, who recently retired as director of the Information Security Oversight Office, which reports to the President on classification and declassification policy.
“The document in question is purely a legal analysis,” he said, and it contains “nothing which would justify classification.”
Beyond that crucial fact, the binding technical requirements of classification were ignored.
Thus, he explained: There were no portion markings, identifying which paragraphs were classified at what level. The original classifier was not identified on the cover page by name or position. The duration of classification was not given. A concise basis for classification was not specified. Yet all of these are explicitly required by the President’s executive order on classification.
“It is not even apparent that [John] Yoo [who authored the memo] had original classification authority,” Mr. Leonard said.

“Also, for the Department of Defense to declassify a Department of Justice document,” as in this case, “is highly irregular,” Mr. Leonard said.

“There is no information contained in this document which gives an advantage to the enemy,” he said. “The only possible rationale for making it secret was to keep it from the American people.”

so?

Posted by: b real | Apr 3 2008 17:22 utc | 31

Right on.

Posted by: Mark Gaughan | Apr 4 2008 0:53 utc | 32

My last comment should have read: Right on b.

Posted by: Mark Gaughan | Apr 4 2008 0:54 utc | 33