Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 4, 2008
4% or 30% – Depends on Who You Ask

How many Iraqi troops deserted during the fight with al-Sadr?

Ask a ‘senior American military official’ and he will tell you some 4%. Ask a ‘senior official in Iraq’s Defense Ministry’ and you will hear 30%.

Quite a difference in perception. Or in spin?

A British military official said that Mr. Maliki had brought 6,600 reinforcements to Basra to join the 30,000 security personnel already stationed there, and a senior American military official said that he understood that 1,000 to 1,500 Iraqi forces had deserted or underperformed. That would represent a little over 4 percent of the total.
More Than 1,000 in Iraq’s Forces Quit Basra Fight, NYT, today

A senior official in Iraq’s Defense Ministry, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not allowed to discuss military operations publicly, said Iraqi troops were overwhelmed by the second day of fighting.

"I was afraid the Iraqi forces would break," he said.

The official said he estimated that 30 percent of the Iraqi troops abandoned the fight before a cease-fire was reached. He also said that soldiers had been hindered by ammunition and food shortages and that some Iraqi police troops, who were supposed to be backing the Iraqi army, had actually supported the militias.
Basra Assault Exposed U.S., Iraqi Limits, WaPo, today

Lincoln Asset Management Group, a New York-based hedge fund firm, has launched a leveraged buyout fund focusing on the defense and intelligence sectors. The firm rolled out the Lincoln Orion Fund this month, said Christian Bailey, managing director. Lincoln had been pre-marketing the fund and has obtained commitments of $ 100 million from six institutional investors, whom Bailey declined to name. The investors include two private equity funds of funds, three corporations and one foreign investor, he said. The fund will be capped at $ 300 million.
The fund will buy companies in the defense and national security industries in the U.S., Bailey said. “Timing is extremely good to look at defense companies. There is huge demand from the Department of Defense and the intelligence community,” he noted.
The minimum for investment is $ 1 million with a 1% management fee and 20% performance fee. Lincoln manages $ 100 million in assets in a global macro hedge fund and a macro fund of funds.

people like ‘defining moments’. if anyone choses to define when the pentagon or christian baily became involved in these propaganda programs or why, and chooses to define that time w/a certain defining contract date, that is their prerogative. if they chose to define why based on the official definition given in the contract, that is also their prerogative.

Comments

Wiki – “Propaganda is a concerted set of messages aimed at influencing the opinions or behavior of large numbers of people.” Goebbels – “the best propaganda is that which does no more than serve the truth”.
Led by political spinsters and written by marketing contractors, the Pentagon Black Ops has spun the truth from the beginning of the Global War on Terror. Reality is a flexible mirage. Errors and lies are never admitted. Decisions that are based on a cult’s ideology lead to one debacle after another. Basra is just one. Worst ones are to follow.

Posted by: VietnamVet | Apr 4 2008 16:35 utc | 1

Eric Martin pass along this story from a conversation between Nir Rosen and Michael Ware – that many of the Badr folks (now flooding the Iraqi Army) are actually considered to be part of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (by Iran) and are collecting monetary pensions from IRGC. Thats right, the IRGC, a designated terrorist organization, is financially supporting the same government we are propping up in Baghdad in order to prevent that organization from having too much influence there. And if any U.S. money were to find its way into the Badr Brigade – or the Iraqi Army – that would mean the the U.S. government is funding an official terrorist organization… The same one it’s alleged to be fighting.

Posted by: anna missed | Apr 4 2008 18:06 utc | 2

thanks anna missed. i just read rosen’s testimony to congress (sorry, i am pdf file challenged when it comes to linking). devastating.
completely confirms vietnam vet’s comment too.

Posted by: annie | Apr 4 2008 18:39 utc | 3

Links to and excerpts from Nir Rosen and Gen Odom testimony are available at Abu Aardvark’s sits.

Posted by: b | Apr 4 2008 18:43 utc | 4

The United states government should immediately arrest itself, then torture itself, and throw itself soaking wet into a cold 3’x5′ cell, after it has frozen all its bank accounts. Then it should bomb the shit (literally) out of itself.
I guess I never was clear that:
the Badr was created by the IRGC
the Badr is considered an Iranian organization by Iran
the Badr continues to receive funding from the IRGC
WTF. Is it just me?

Posted by: anna missed | Apr 4 2008 19:02 utc | 5

@anna – Is it just me?
No – guess how the Saudis, Egyptians and other Sunni Arabs see this. And they get more info on this than we do. As soon as there shows up some believable alternative to U.S. “protection” (a Godfather racket), Chinese, Russian, Iranian(?) they may want to split from the “traitors”.

Posted by: b | Apr 4 2008 19:36 utc | 6

WTF. Is it just me?
hell no, i guess you don’t hang out @ layla anwar’s! lots of iraqis think this is a US/iranian plot! sorta makes sense doesn’t it? even billmon eluded to it recently at that post someone linked to.
The United states government should immediately arrest itself, then torture itself, and throw itself soaking wet into a cold 3’x5′ cell, after it has frozen all its bank accounts. Then it should bomb the shit (literally) out of itself.
lol, i said this (similiar sentiment) awhile back and someboby emailed me and said, now annie, you don’t really want this. lol. actually i think the idea is really stating to resonate w/many people!

Posted by: annie | Apr 4 2008 21:52 utc | 7

i think i misinterpreted what you were saying anna missed.
I guess I never was clear that:
really? how could you have missed that? badr was formed in iran during the iran/iraq war. all their big guys, hakim etc sought refuge in iran when saddam went after shia during the uprising. all there spiritual leaders are from iran, primarily. many shia/persian community holy sites are in iraq. yeah, the badr brigades would never been allowed to organize under saddam, they have always been iranian based. anna missed, i am just surprised you missed this. and the revolutionary guard is the official troops of iran, who else would have formed badr? there isn’t any other army in iran.

Posted by: annie | Apr 4 2008 22:26 utc | 8

Percentages being quotas between – in this case – number of people defecting and number of people sent out my take would be that no one really knows any of those numbers for sure. How many iraqi soldiers has the US trained by now?

Posted by: a swedish kind of death | Apr 4 2008 22:39 utc | 9

this is kind of an iraq 101 rant circa 10/06 by the iraqi blogger 24 steps. this is when i first clearly understood. he was the baghdad wapo office manager/stringer in baghdad. grew up there. i don’t think this is questionable, this is something all iraqis know.

Badr troops are more dangerous than Mehdi army. The Mehdi army members are thugs and uneducated, hungry and unemployed young men from Sadr city. While the Badr troops members are organized, numbered, Iranian-raised and educated young monsters, who are trained to kill, ONLY. And they are playing the biggest role in the sectarian and civil war Iraq nowadays.
Why isn’t the “smart” Americans paying attention to Badr troops? Why every raid should target the Mehdi army and never Badr troops offices? What? Badr criminals can operate and kill my people and the Mehdi army can’t? Why?
I cant tell you why: because if Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, the leader of SCIRI and Badr troops, is pissed off, that means Iran will be angry. And when Iran is angry, that’s not good. It is because if the Badr troops people are asked to take off Baghdad, they will. And the Americans cannot risk that.
American and Iraqi officials and military commanders know very well that Muqtada al-Sadr has no support from Iran anymore. He used to, but not anymore. He only has people, who support him when what he says fits what they want, or when they are hungry and have no jobs. They only take to the streets and get it out of their system. They know that the only side they can blame the civil war—going in Iraq for more than a year now—is Muqtada al-Sadr, because he is not a threat. Otherwise, why only Sadr? Is he the only one killing Iraqis now? Where is Badr troops thousands and thousands of armed thugs? Where are they?
Iraq is done. Next please!

here’s the recent war nerd
The Shia are divided into two major factions: Maliki is our guy, but his real loyalty is to a middle-class Shia group that has military and political wings. The political wing is the Dawa Party; the military group used to be called the Badr Brigade, but these days it calls itself the Iraqi Army.
The Badr Brigade has an interesting history. During the Iran-Iraq War, it fought for the Iranians against Saddam, as a big (50,000-man) auxiliary unit. When we disbanded Saddam’s army and the Sunni went insurgent, the Badr Brigade stepped smoothly into the power vacuum and became the core of the new Iraqi Army.
So don’t think of this as a real Western-style national army, drawn from all of Iraq’s various groups or any of that crap. The current Iraqi Army is a particular Shia militia that just happens to be willing to wear the uniforms we bought them. They’re not really in it for “the nation,” much less their American paymasters. They’re there to use their new fancy weapons and big money to push the Dawa Party’s agenda down everybody else’s throats.

and of curse dawa was previously considered a terrorist organization previously, even by US standards, not just iraqi.
no doubt about it, badr aka iraqi army, is fueled by iran.

Posted by: annie | Apr 4 2008 22:44 utc | 10

that first link@10, scroll down to the last post. btw, the reason i chose that reference is because that is the post i first ‘got it’ re badr. 10/06.
one of the interesting features around that period of the war was maliki gave an interview where he mentioned sadr & sunni insurgents and they were kinda trying to make it sound like they were equal opportunity ‘defenders’ when it came to policing iraq. all the articles around that time it was sunni this and shia that, but the shia were always sadr. badr had the cush jobs, sadr worked for them, and carried out alot of the mayhem, supposedly, or got blamed for it, or something. at the beginning of falluja there was an uprising of mahdi army as i recall, they didn’t want to invade falluja, and badr mowed a bunch down in the streets @ a demonstration. there has always been a split in the shias . mahdi army are also iraqi arabs, .. not sure how it breaks down w/badr or hakim.

Posted by: annie | Apr 4 2008 23:00 utc | 11

In either case, add to their numbers police and troops in Baghdad.
AzZaman earlier this week: Thousands of police officers who refused to fight Sadr are given the sack

(snip)
Thousands of police officers were reported to have refused fighting the militiamen and at least two army regiments joined them with their weapons in Baghdad.
More troops were said to have sided with the militiamen in Basra.
The move to sack police and army personnel sympathizing with Sadr is a risky step as it might derail the already fragile ceasefire.
The exact numbers of those who are covered by the move are not known but analysts say they should involve thousands of police officers and troops.
(snip)

Posted by: Alamet | Apr 4 2008 23:39 utc | 12

Pepe Escobar on Mosul:
The other Iraqi civil war

Posted by: Alamet | Apr 4 2008 23:41 utc | 13

No annie, I knew the badr was Iraqi exile group based and trained in Iran as an anti-Saddam militia, and their leaders were Iraqi. Guess I didn’t know the extent, or how the connection to the IRGC (doing their training) went so far as to be considered a part of the IRGC – with long term obligations and financing commitments. Or that they were not just a cats paw, but the actual cat.

Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 5 2008 0:15 utc | 14

me above

Posted by: anna missed | Apr 5 2008 0:18 utc | 15

re: #3 [pdf problems]
annie and moa’s, there’s an excelent tool to link and view pdf’s online: Pdf me not
…they have a Firefox plugin as well
(a lil’ geekie OT)

Posted by: rudolf | Apr 5 2008 0:36 utc | 16

Excuse me … Hello? Hello? Can we please get back to substance that really matters?

The Strange Case of SEIU
Do unions prefer civil war to immigration reform?
By Carl F. Horowitz
If numbers were all that mattered, Andrew Stern would be America’s most successful labor leader, hands down. For over two decades, he’s led the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) — first as president John Sweeney’s chief strategist, and since 1996 as Sweeney’s successor. Under Stern, SEIU’s membership has nearly doubled to around 1.9 million, a feat all the more remarkable given that most unions during that period shrank or held steady. Union members held nearly a third of all non-farm private-sector jobs between 1950 and 1965; now they hold about 12 percent, and a mere 7.5 percent of private-sector jobs.
SEIU’s dramatic increase has persuaded Stern that he’s found a model for organized labor to regain its clout at the bargaining table and in the corridors of power — what he calls a progressive business model, a rough hybrid of Martin Luther King and Steve Jobs. By working with rather than against employers, Stern believes, unions can regain their long-declining share of the U.S. workforce.

KPFK Radio: Hundreds of UHW members rally in Los Angeles for union democracy
Wednesday, April 2, 2008
Hundreds of members of United Healthcare Workers-West gathered at their Los Angeles union headquarters Wednesday and declared with one voice that they will not tolerate attempts by SEIU International officers to centralize power and subvert union democracy.
The rally came on the heels of a similar gathering last Thursday at UHW’s Oakland headquarters; both events saw a massive turnout demonstrating the resolve of members to resist attempts by SEIU President Andy Stern to chill internal dissent, marginalize political opposition and thwart union democracy.
Leilani Albano of Los Angeles radio station KPFK filed this report. (Use the player above to listen.)
http://www.seiuvoice.org/2008/04/hundreds-more-uhw-members-rally-in-los.html
Between 2001 and 2006, UHW added more members – 64,826 – than did any other SEIU local in the nation, more than doubling in size in this period (excluding any growth from mergers). Read more
UHW President’s Resignation
Click here to download Sal Rosselli’s resignation letter from SEIU’s Executive Committee on Feb. 9, 2008. [PDF document]
http://seiuvoice.org/documents/Rosselli_resignation_letter_2-9-08.pdf
Top Links
* UHW Executive Board on Sal Rosselli’s resignation (2/13/2008)
* Facts debunking Andy Stern’s letter of pretext for a hostile takeover of UHW
* “SEIU scapegoating UHW doesn’t work for workers” by Barbara Lewis
* SEIU Voice on YouTube

Andrew L. “Andy” Stern (born November 22, 1950) is the president of the Service Employees International Union, the largest and fastest-growing union in the United States and Canada. Elected in 1996 to succeed John Sweeney, Stern has become known as something of a firebrand in the labor movement, adopting a strategy of aggressive organizing while sometimes vocally criticizing other union leaders and the AFL-CIO’s organizing structure. One of the co-founders of the New Unity Partnership, Stern publicly suggested his and other unions would split from the AFL-CIO if it failed to make major organizational changes. On July 25, 2005 the SEIU, along with the Teamsters, announced that it was officially disaffiliating from the AFL-CIO. The two unions, and others, would form the Change to Win Federation.

United Mechanics Vote In Teamsters For Representation
Wed, 02 Apr ’08
Say AMFA Failed To Curtail Outsourcing
Monday’s vote by mechanics at United Airlines to change union representation was nothing short of a referendum against the carrier’s practice of outsourcing maintenance… and the perceived failure of the last mechanics union to stop it.
The Teamsters were voted in by the majority of the 6,500 mechanics at United, ousting the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association. AMFA is expected to step aside following certification of the vote results by the National Mediation Board.
The successful vote was the culmination of a two-year wooing effort by the Teamsters, according to Reuters, during which time the union pledged to fight United’s ongoing efforts to outsource greater percentages of its maintenance operations to foreign-owned shops.

JOHN SWEENEY & JAMES LEAMAN: Without labor unions, who speaks for the worker?
Fredericksburg Free Lance-Star
WASHINGTON —
Let’s just put the skunk on the table. America’s economy is in real trouble. We didn’t get into this economic crisis overnight. We need real long-term solutions to our deep-rooted economic problems – not the status quo and a $300 Band–Aid.
More than ever, we’re living our daily lives in an economy that puts corporate profits over real people. You can see it in our lopsided trade policies, the outrageous expense of health care, mounting personal debt, and in our crumbling bridges, roads and schools. Thanks to Bushonomics, this is the America the next president will inherit.
How did we get to this point? Before the 1970s, our economy was growing strong, which meant rising wages for the vast majority of America’s workers.
More money in our pockets meant more spending capacity – and so we spent. That spending encouraged companies to invest more, and a cycle of prosperity was born.
It was good while it lasted, but for the last three decades workers’ productivity has continued to go up, up and away – while wages have stagnated. There are many reasons, including the deregulation of the airline, telecommunications and trucking industries, which drove wages down for those workers. Unfair international trade policies (like NAFTA) also played a significant role, providing incentives to send jobs overseas.
But that’s not the whole story. Another key reason workers aren’t seeing wages that match their productivity is the sustained attack against workers’ freedom to form unions to bargain for better deals.
The Employee Free Choice Act is a piece of national legislation that would level the playing field for America’s workers – mitigating corporate greed and repairing the broken labor-law system that has stripped away the freedom to form unions and bargain collectively.
Joining a union has become far more difficult than it should be. Employers routinely harass, coerce and fire people who try to form unions. Studies show that a quarter of all employers illegally fire workers for supporting a union, and union activists stand a one-in-five chance of getting fired during organizing campaigns.
More than 30,000 workers were discriminated against by their employer while trying to form a union in 2005. And a whopping 75 percent of employers get themselves a team of expensive hired guns to teach them how to prevent their workers from organizing a union.
About 60 million of America’s working men and women say they would join a union today if they could. And it’s no surprise. A union card is every worker’s ticket into the middle class.
Union members earn 30 percent more than workers who don’t have a union – that’s $200 a week, or more than $10,000 per year. Union members are also more likely to have health care and pension benefits.
Without the counterbalance of worker power in the economy, the relationship between wages and productivity unravels. Wages stagnate while living expenses rise. When that happens, workers become over-reliant on borrowing in order to make ends meet or get ahead. That’s why the average American household owes $8,000 of their future income to a credit card company – up from $3,000 in 1990. And that’s why Americans are so vulnerable to predatory lending in the housing industry.
But now, debt-driven consumer spending has reached its limit. Some of us are losing our homes because we can’t afford to pay higher interest rates on our mortgages. The rest of us are tightening our belts because we no longer have equity in our homes against which we can borrow. In our consumption-based economy, when people stop spending, we’re in real trouble.
Demand goes down, the values of our homes go down, and it’s the average American left holding the IOU.
The economy is in real trouble, and we all know it. The question is whether we keep marching to the beat of the same old tired drummer, or whether we decide it’s time to change our tune.

[DISCLAIMER: I only joined the union once … and have refused to join ever since.]

Posted by: Terrence Micheals | Apr 5 2008 1:43 utc | 17

to be considered a part of the IRGC
anna missed, when their leader (and sadr?) went to iran for IRGC instructions re basra it blew the lid off any illusions, although it wasn’t given the proper send up in the msm of course.

Posted by: annie | Apr 5 2008 4:01 utc | 18

thank you rudolf. however if i had the url of the pdf file, i could post it. mine just opens w/out a link. no biggie, i have done it before i just forgot how. i will save that link tho. you never know.

Posted by: annie | Apr 5 2008 4:04 utc | 19

annie, the media send up has been virtually nil. They must be still waiting for instructions from a very confused, and probably very befuddled U.S. command. Because this story is particularly important in the revelations it has so far produced about how significant the Iranians are, or have become in controlling events. And how formidable the Sadr trend has become. Maliki himself, just looks useless – one day issuing U.S. orders “Its not over yet”, then the next day Iranian orders, “yes it is over”. But I doubt the U.S. and Iran are working as a team toward similar objectives. In this case Sadr, while working against Iranian interests in the government, acts as a buffer against the U.S. consolidating its interests in Basra. They don’t seem at all happy about Maliki’s little operation (as opposed to all the crowing last week by the bush administration) and so far seem to have put the kabosh on it. Leaving all the U.S. government officials a bit speechless – in that it all took place right under their nose and never saw it coming. Which in IMHO is one of the big reasons that the U.S. should get out of Iraq now. In that they really don’t have a clue about what they’re doing there and have become superfluous.

Posted by: anna missed | Apr 5 2008 7:19 utc | 20

probably very befuddled U.S. command
Yeah, it’s bizarre, isn’t it? They must be very confused. Paying for and training their enemies. (On a tangent, did the VietCong ever get into the South Vietnamese army? I don’t know Viet history that well. I just thought the South Vietnamese soldiers were not that keen on fighting for the regime)
Of course, we should not forget Iran is not really the United States’ enemy, only a declared enemy. I don’t see any desire at all in Iran to be in conflict with the United States.

Posted by: Alex | Apr 5 2008 8:18 utc | 21

wow, you go annie and am — annie and anna missed. Shades of b real — deep analysis and links to back your facts.
Hope I can come back in daylight to reread annie and anna missed’s posts on this. I tried to answer my dad’s question a few years ago about who is fighting in Iraq. b’sides the US army (marines air force etc.).
At that time I thought there were three different forces within the country but I had a hard time naming them.
Is it Badr (aligned with Maliki and US (not “us” but U.S.A.), Sadr (local Shia, meaning pretty much most of the population) and non-US foreigners i.e. Saudis and other folk traveling in to help defend an Islamic country?
And above y’all say that the Badr’ists are also linked to Iran. It is a complex thing this whole war routine. Where do they get the guns?

Posted by: jonku | Apr 5 2008 8:59 utc | 22

annie:
and of curse dawa was previously considered a terrorist organization previously, even by US standards, not just iraqi.
Not to be facitous or anything but any organization that bombs a US embassy (Kuwait 1983) is usually considered terrorist. You know kill 17 Americans one day the next day your the best of buddies. Just like Somalia. Kill Aemericans and drag their bodies through the streets of Mogadishu one day and the next day you get installed into government. More interesting is that the 17 Dawa men arrestted in Kuwait for the terroristm escaped when Saddam invaded. One of them was elected to Iraq’s Parliament (Jamal Jaafar Muhammad) Feb 2007 despite being sentanced to death in Kuwait.
What better way to suppress a population then employ terrorists (Salvador Option) with lots of experience and no morals:
NPR – Fri Apr 4, 6:09 PM ET
Recent fighting between Shiite militia and Iraqi troops highlighted severe, lingering problems for the U.S.-trained forces, including tactical and logistical issues and desertion. Even more grave, evidence points to executions of detained militiamen by some of the security forces.

Evidence of Executions by Iraqi Forces Surfaces
What was priceless was listening to Petraeus hail the success of the last Ashura festival (which draws many Iranians) on CNN. It’s Islamofacism only when there not our friends.
It’s hard to read the Iraqis becuase of the diversity and massive PSYOPS (Lincoln Group) performed on them over the last 5 years. At first the Sunni resistance and Sadr cooperated when Fallujah and Najaf were burning. The Samarra Mosque bombing helped drive the stake between them. I’m pretty sure that came out of the Interior Ministry since they took over the security of the Mosque just weeks before it was blown. I don’t see how anybody could beleive that Al Queda would tie up the guards safely away from the blast, while the same gaurds were torturing them in their secret prisons, and Al Queda was cutting off heads at the time?
Judging by the latest events and popular support for the resistance maybe the Iraqis are catching on?

Posted by: Sam | Apr 5 2008 9:09 utc | 23

Maliki backs down
BAGHDAD – In a dramatic reversal, Iraq’s prime minister ordered a nationwide freeze Friday on Iraqi raids against Shiite militants, bowing to demands by anti-U.S. cleric Muqtada al-Sadr only one day after promising to expand the crackdown to Baghdad.
Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki issued the order after al-Sadr, whose Mahdi Army militia fought government troops last week in Basra and elsewhere, hinted at retaliation if Iraqi security forces continue to arrest his followers.

The US steps up
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) — A senior U.S. military official say 400 U.S. military personnel are being sent to Basra, Iraq, to bolster the operation there.

Posted by: Sam | Apr 5 2008 9:24 utc | 24

After several news reports of contractors killing people in Iraq with no charges we finally hear about one:
BAGHDAD (Reuters) – The United States military announced on Saturday it had charged a civilian contractor in Iraq under U.S. military law for the first time.
Alaa Mohammad Ali is accused of stabbing another contractor, the military said in a statement. It did not specify his nationality.

Meanwhile Blackwater gets another one year extension on their contract
Of course it is not an incident against killing a civilian but another contractor. Notice the name? Probably not a white guy. You have to wonder did he kill a white guy?

Posted by: Sam | Apr 5 2008 11:06 utc | 25

Iraq’s prime minister ordered a nationwide freeze Friday on Iraqi raids against Shiite militants
it doesn’t pertain to the occupiers, they can do raids any ol time they please
What better way to suppress a population then employ terrorists (Salvador Option) with lots of experience and no morals
or kick start genocide.
I’m pretty sure that came out of the Interior Ministry
the ptb are all about defining moments, it makes it so much easier to have a simple narrative for the masses to comprehend. which masses?
maybe the Iraqis are catching on?
gee, ya think. actually i think it’s the other way around. most iraqis are ahead of the curve in terms of how they view reality. the primary mission of lincoln is to hoodwink the people back home, to provide plausible deniability in which to cover your war crimes. if i had a dollar for every time i read samarra mosque? pleeeaase. the genocide was not escalating at a proper pace. the journalist who broke the story of the death sqauds was killed a day after it was published. iraqi bloggers were screaming about people showing up in police uniforms and vehicles and taking people from their homes only to find their drilled corpse at a later date, if at all. however, the defining moment the news centers around, the history books will…is he narrative about (shiite) finally taking revenge after the samarra bombing.
yada yada, of course it wasn’t AQ. but the interior ministry? my guess it was an inside job w/’special’ forces. like the british kind that got intercepted wearing arab clothing and all the makings of a big explosion. whoever it was it was, in terms of narrative, it was a smashing success back here at home. but i think iraqis are not in one mind around who did it.

Posted by: annie | Apr 5 2008 12:20 utc | 26

it was it was it was it was it was
jeez!

Posted by: annie | Apr 5 2008 12:23 utc | 27

ok, reading this over.. i do think MOI was instrumental, but they are just an extension of us. my guess is cheney, rummy or elliot abrams. peace thru civil war.. it came from the top.

Posted by: annie | Apr 5 2008 12:27 utc | 28

annie:
gee, ya think. actually i think it’s the other way around. most iraqis are ahead of the curve in terms of how they view reality.
Iraq is still under occupation because they wont unite. They can’t go accross the Atlantic to recover from PTSD, and they are subjected to state of the art PSYOPS operations by the most sophisticated military in the World. It wasn’t that long ago they were attacking each other in massively greater numbers than the occupation forces. Refugee camps are full of the consequences. They are still doing it now just in lesser numbers. Maliki and company are Iraqis. Every day we read about Iraqis killing other Iraqis. All those Iraqi troops and cops getting killed every day are Iraqis. The recent failure of the Basra operation wherin the Iraq Army was in danger of being overun would seem to support my statement. I believe it is a change.
the primary mission of lincoln is to hoodwink the people back home, to provide plausible deniability in which to cover your war crimes.
The Lincoln Group and others were paid millions to write stories in Iraqi media not US media. One of their ex employees was on Democracy Now describing his duties in detail to promote certain groups and discredit others. He described an American General demanding favorable press coverage for the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq. They even had a Reality TV show parading the captured resistance to the public with full confessions black eyes and all portraying them as terrorists.
but the interior ministry? my guess it was an inside job w/’special’ forces. like the british kind that got intercepted wearing arab clothing
Maybe but I doubt it considering it would risk a shootout. Casteel’s office was right above the Interior Ministry and Negroponte asked for 3.5 billion to be diverted from the 18 billion reconstruction fund for security. US media reported the Salvador Option was being employed in Iraq. It’s a lot easier to do it via money and advice.
ok, reading this over.. i do think MOI was instrumental, but they are just an extension of us.
Yes I agree. And they are also Iraqis. It’s a familiar pattern. Fatah versus Hamas, Sinora versus Nazrallah, Somalia Warlords versus the Islamic Courts, the Northern Alliance versus the Taliban etc.

Posted by: Sam | Apr 5 2008 13:50 utc | 29

But I doubt the U.S. and Iran are working as a team toward similar objectives.
this is hard for me to imagine also anna missed, but this seems to be a theme coming out of some popular sunni nationalist bloggers, along w/the assertion it is an israeli/iranian plot. hmm. they make rather strange bedfellows don’t you think? and then billmons comment. hmm.
sam, when i said i think iraqis are ahead of the curve wrt propaganda (lincoln) and the overall general ‘plan’ and ‘MO’ of the invasion what i mean is that i think they are very aware what and who is driving this. when you have organized death squads carrying out ethnic genocide it is a perfectly natural response to reciprocate.
the framing of these events, that they were primarily sect based in nature, imo only holds water if you eliminate the political nature of the events. the msm does not want to expose this issue of nationalist vs federalist, it is easier to say shia vs sunni until it breaks down as it has now between badr sadr, but clearly iraqis have an awareness of who and what is driving this (i think).
The Lincoln Group and others were paid millions to write stories in Iraqi media not US media. One of their ex employees was on Democracy Now describing his duties in detail to promote certain groups and discredit others.
iraqis are not stupid. of course they can tell after not a lot of time these stories are bogus. especially when they make crazy allegations iraqi immediately know can’t be true, which they did all the time as demonstrated by my first post on #10 link. i am not sure how the military justifies what lies are and are not allowed to be printed in the US press according to US laws, but i DO know once they are published in the foreign press it is fair game here. i am comfortable simply having a difference of opinion about this but i still think the primary target of US propaganda in iraq is the american public. i think the designers of this war would have no problem nuking the entire middle east to kingdom come if the american public didn’t know about it. also, i cannot remeber which ‘decisive moment’ is was related to but there was a video that was ‘proof’ of something traveling all over the internet and on the iraqi blogs they were laughing about it because of the voices, they were in like egyptian accents or something. they knew it was a lie because iraqis don’t talk like that. mistakes like this. state/occupation operated TV.. they get it.
no matter how much lipstick they put on the pig everyone in iraq knew they (us militry) were rounding up sunnis in neighborhoods for incarcerating/torture them and killing them. no amount of lincoln is going to disguise this to iraqis. that is just my opinion and i am sticking with it. otherwise thank you for the link and i defer to your opinions about a whole range of things it sounds like you are much more informed about than me.
jonku Is it Badr (aligned with Maliki and US (not “us” but U.S.A.), Sadr (local Shia, meaning pretty much most of the population) and non-US foreigners i.e. Saudis and other folk traveling in to help defend an Islamic country?
don’t forget the sunni resistance, primarily homegrown nationalist iraqi aka ‘terrorists’ for propaganda purposes accept the ones we pay not to shoot us then we call them the awakening. i don’t think foreign troops make up more than a small percentage of fighters. the propaganda likes to morph them into AQ which gets a little choppy so now we have AQI, which is aq in iraq. many people think they were injected into the scene (al baghdadi, pleaase!)to divide and conquer the natural resistance. it is also completely convenient to have a bogee man to place the blame of all your special forces/cia shinanigans from the US side, and from the puppet gov iraqi side.
here is a well written recent post by a talented iraqi blogger titled Underestimating Muqtada. . i don’t read and comment on them because i necessarily agree w/their views or sentiments, and of course like any population they have widely diverging viewpoints.

Posted by: annie | Apr 5 2008 15:37 utc | 30

annie:
i am comfortable simply having a difference of opinion about this but i still think the primary target of US propaganda in iraq is the american public.
I don’t beleive that the American public reads the Iraqi press:
“I Was a Propaganda Intern in Iraq”–Fmr. Lincoln Group Intern Describes Paying Iraqi Press to Plant Pro-American Articles Secretly Written by U.S. Military
The PsyOps War
The US don’t need to pay the Lincoln Group in Iraq to target US propaganda at the American puclic. They already get that for free. In other Iraq news:
BAGHDAD (Reuters) – Iraq’s political leadership on Saturday called on all parties to disband their militias before provincial elections this year

“They should shift to civilian activities as a precondition for taking part in the political process and the next elections,” said the statement, read out at the news conference which was chaired by President Jalal Talabani, a Kurd.

Iraqi leaders call for militias to disband
I fully expect the Pershmega to disarm tomorrow.

Posted by: Sam | Apr 5 2008 22:24 utc | 31

Who gives a FF how many defect ? Just send in the B2’s, they can carry at least 40 1,000 JDAM’s.

Posted by: ziz | Apr 5 2008 22:28 utc | 32

Sam # 31,
I fully expect the Peshmerga to disarm tomorrow.
Ah, no, there are so many more peace-building tasks they’d like to carry out first!
From the Arab Monitor (full report),
US and Iraqi forces continue raids and arrest campaigns

Baghdad, 3 April – US occupation forces launched an airstrike in the direction of suspected insurgents, but killed 5 policemen and injured 11 more, among them 2 women in their homes. In Basra US airstrikes destroyed a house in the Kobla district killing 4 civilians. Meanwhile, on orders of Prime Minister Nouri al-Malki, Iraqi armed forces conducted arrest raids against rival Shiite parties, among them the leader of the Thaar-Allah party: Youssef Sinawy was abducted from his home in Basra together with his three brothers.
Al-Malki said his crackdown operations on militants other than the Mahdi Army militia would continue and said he had the backing from President Jalal Talabani. Moreover, Massoud Barzani, the regional governor of the Kurdish autonomous region, offered to send his Peshmerga militia to Basra to help in the raids aimed at clearing Shiite strongholds of possible allies of the Mahdi Army militia to prevent coalitions capable of dwarfing the Dawa party’s influence. In last week’s clashes with the Mahdi Army militia at least 460 people had lost their lives in Basra.

Posted by: Alamet | Apr 5 2008 22:45 utc | 33

ziz:
Who gives a FF how many defect ? Just send in the B2’s, they can carry at least 40 1,000 JDAM’s.
Sure they could. But the problem with going the genocide route is the surrounding Muslim countries providing command and control space and resupply facilities would withdraw their support. The first time they tried to take over Fallujah they backed off when Al Jazeera broadcast pictures of all the dead babies to the World, so the attack was called off. Al Jazeera was banned from the country and Fallujah was isolated before they tried again. Turkey already threatened once to cut off supply when they wanted to repeat Fallujah on Tal Afar.
You may think that they aren’t worried about muslim public opinion, but if that were the case they wouldn’t have sent Bush suckholing onto the “anti coalition” Al Jazeera to promise the perpetrators of Abu Graib would be arrestted and tried. On the other hand it would be a good idea if you wanted to unite the World’s 1.3 billion muslims.

Posted by: Sam | Apr 5 2008 23:44 utc | 34

I don’t beleive that the American public reads the Iraqi press:
i think you have missed my point.
sam, when i read first read this article a few years ago here is the section that stood out for me, which is the basis for why i said i think iraqis , for the most part ‘have been way ahead of the curve in terms of understanding propaganda.
And one particular article about the Badr Brigade, which is a Shiite militia, I’m sure you know, which General Casey was very keen to push, basically applauded the Badr Brigade for not retaliating against attacks on the Shia in Baghdad. And he was very keen to get it pushed out, and two newspapers in a row refused to publish it, because it was too inflammatory in a political sense. So that was a very interesting experience, having this senior, senior general getting involved in the nitty-gritty and wanting one particular story to go out, only to discover that no Iraqi newspapers in their right mind were willing to publish it for however much money we offered.
source

The occupation of Iraq presented one of the great public diplomacy challenges of the modern era. Yet, instead of making a concerted effort to ‘sell’ the US presence in Iraq first to the Iraqis themselves and, beyond that, to the broader Arab world CPA’s media office was staffed almost entirely by politically-connected press officers dispatched from Washington. The US and UK foreign services each provided a single Arabic-speaking diplomat to the press office (which employed about 10 full-time press officers). These were later supplemented by the addition of an Egyptian-American press officer.
Neither of the coalition’s two main spokesmen, Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt and Dan Senor, spoke any Arabic. At first I wondered why CPA had not tried to find an Arabic-speaking officer and an Iraqi-American civilian to fill these roles. Clearly there were people available who would have fit that bill, so why give the job to an artillery officer with no previous public relations experience, and a Republican loyalist (Senor was a former deputy to Ari Fleischer, George W. Bush’s first press secretary)? After a couple of briefings the answer was obvious: CPA did not much care what the Arab Press thought. It had long since written off major players like Al-Jazeera as irredeemably hostile, and it appeared not to regard the local Iraqi media as a high priority. The daily briefings were designed with the Western – especially the US – press in mind, because that was the only audience CPA and the White House really cared about.
The press office, for example, consistently refused to make either Kimmitt or Senor available for unilateral interviews with Al-Iraqiyah, though both regularly did unilateral interviews with all of the American networks. When I returned to Baghdad in the spring of 2004 as a producer for Fox News I discovered that Kimmitt regularly phoned Fox directly to offer comments on breaking news.(ii)

one of lincoln’s more ‘successful’ stunts pulled off early in the invasion was the photo op pulling down saddam’s statue w/the screaming crowd. how many iraqis do think bought that story? lots of what lincoln did was organize these neighborhood events like school openings and good deed events, where did those end up besides the iraqi media? little town papers all across america. they would hold ceremonies of iraqi graduating from trainings and make it a big deal in the papers. how many iraqis really bought that, including the ones joining the military? we just have a difference of opinion. while i think the efforts may have been aimed at iraqis and thru iraqis i still think the primary target was US red states, keep that money flowing. it also serves to simply the concepts in terms of framing. how can you fight a war when you claim the people you are invading are your friends? you need to create the enemy for the american public, the terrorist. all the islam bashing…who’s that for? of course there are the more serious forms, like cia planted bombs w/framing of AQ?
like i said earlier, i would like to agree to disagree.
re peshmerga, did everyone read escobar’s latest re kirkuk and mosel? massive stench.

Posted by: annie | Apr 6 2008 0:22 utc | 35

the first paragraph in italics was from the psyops lincoln link @31. wasn’t sure if that was clear.

Posted by: annie | Apr 6 2008 1:25 utc | 36

annie:
one of lincoln’s more ‘successful’ stunts pulled off early in the invasion was the photo op pulling down saddam’s statue w/the screaming crowd.
Got a link for that assertion? Here’s what sourcewatch say about your assertion:
Toppling the statue of Saddam Hussein was a staged event, by U.S. soldiers, for the media. A Reuters long-shot of Firdos Square where the statue was located (see below) shows that the Square was nearly empty when Saddam was torn down. The Square was sealed off by the U.S. military. The 200 people milling about were U.S. Marines, international press and Iraqis. However, the media portrayed it as an event of the Iraqi people.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Toppling_the_statue_of_Saddam_Hussein
Notice the terms “international press” and “the media portrayed it as”? What does that have to do with the Lincoln Group? Here’s another source including pictures of the event:
A wide angle shot in which you can see the whole of Fardus Square (conveniently located just opposite the Palestine Hotel where the international media are based), and the presence of at most around 200 people – most of them US troops (note the tanks and armored vehicles) and assembled journalists.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2838.htm
No mention of the Lincoln Group but there is a mention of “assembled journalists” and what do you know a hotel right accross the street full of journalists. Do you think any of them noticed the size of the crowd before they wrote their glorified stories to the World? Like I said they don’t need to hire the Lincoln Group to put out propaganda to the US masses. This is the same media that published all those weapons of mass destruction stories in Iraq before the invasion even started. Judy Miller didn’t need no stinking Lincoln Group. Heres some more info:
The LA Times piece continued, “Military officials familiar with the effort in Iraq said much of it was being directed by the ‘Information Operations Task Force’ in Baghdad, part of the multinational corps headquarters commanded by Army Lt. Gen. John R. Vines. … As part of a psychological operations campaign that has intensified over the last year, the task force also had purchased an Iraqi newspaper and taken control of a radio station, and was using them to channel pro-American messages to the Iraqi public. Neither is identified as a military mouthpiece.”
ABC News reported[24] December 14, 2005, that it had “obtained a strategy document called ‘The Making of Heroes: Lincoln Group and the Fight for Fallujah’ — part of the Pentagon’s multi-million dollar public relations campaign to sell the American war effort to the Iraqis.”
The New York Times reported[33] January 2, 2006, that the Lincoln Group “has been compensating Sunni religious scholars in Iraq in return for assistance with its propaganda works … [T]he company’s ties to religious leaders and dozens of other prominent Iraqis is aimed also at enabling it to exercise influence in Iraqi communities on behalf of clients, including the military.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Lincoln_Group
Prior to that report, Lincoln Group of Washington, DC was awarded an indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity contract, with a potential maximum value of $100,000,000, for media approach planning, prototype product development, commercial quality product development, product distribution and dissemination, and media effects analysis for the Joint Psychological Operations Support element and other government agencies.
In September 2004, the major PR contract for the Multi-National Corps-Iraq was awarded to Iraqex, a “business clearinghouse company formed specifically to provide a swath of services in the war-torn country.” The Washington, D.C.-based Lincoln Alliance Corporation, a “business ‘intelligence’ company that handles services from ‘political campaign intelligence’ to commercial real estate in Iraq”, set up Iraqex last year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Group
WASHINGTON: A Pentagon contractor that paid Iraqi newspapers to run positive articles about U.S. efforts in Iraq also has been compensating Iraqi clerics and scholars in return for assistance with its propaganda work, according to company records and current and former employees.
Lincoln Group, a Washington-based public relations firm, was told early last year by the American military to identify religious leaders who could help craft messages that would persuade Sunnis in violence-ridden Al Anbar Province to participate in national elections and reject the insurgency, according to a former employee.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/01/01/news/cleric.php
Here’s one of your bolded text items:
CPA did not much care what the Arab Press thought.
Did you catch my drift in my last post on Bush giving Al Jazeera an exclusive interview? How does that square with the above text? I find it rather interesting that you post a link from “a producer for Fox News” to support your premise. Are you kidding me?
how many iraqis do think bought that story?
I don’t know but I do know that Iraq did not have a history of Sunni Shia genocide before the invasion.

Posted by: Sam | Apr 6 2008 2:20 utc | 37

annie:
one of lincoln’s more ‘successful’ stunts pulled off early in the invasion was the photo op pulling down saddam’s statue w/the screaming crowd.
Got a link for that assertion? Here’s what sourcewatch say about your assertion:
Toppling the statue of Saddam Hussein was a staged event, by U.S. soldiers, for the media. A Reuters long-shot of Firdos Square where the statue was located (see below) shows that the Square was nearly empty when Saddam was torn down. The Square was sealed off by the U.S. military. The 200 people milling about were U.S. Marines, international press and Iraqis. However, the media portrayed it as an event of the Iraqi people.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Toppling_the_statue_of_Saddam_Hussein
Notice the terms “international press” and “the media portrayed it as”? What does that have to do with the Lincoln Group? Here’s another source including pictures of the event:
A wide angle shot in which you can see the whole of Fardus Square (conveniently located just opposite the Palestine Hotel where the international media are based), and the presence of at most around 200 people – most of them US troops (note the tanks and armored vehicles) and assembled journalists.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2838.htm
No mention of the Lincoln Group but there is a mention of “assembled journalists” and what do you know a hotel right accross the street full of journalists. Do you think any of them noticed the size of the crowd before they wrote their glorified stories to the World? Like I said they don’t need to hire the Lincoln Group to put out propaganda to the US masses. This is the same media that published all those weapons of mass destruction stories in Iraq before the invasion even started. Judy Miller didn’t need no stinking Lincoln Group.

Posted by: Sam | Apr 6 2008 2:22 utc | 38

Heres some more info:
The LA Times piece continued, “Military officials familiar with the effort in Iraq said much of it was being directed by the ‘Information Operations Task Force’ in Baghdad, part of the multinational corps headquarters commanded by Army Lt. Gen. John R. Vines. … As part of a psychological operations campaign that has intensified over the last year, the task force also had purchased an Iraqi newspaper and taken control of a radio station, and was using them to channel pro-American messages to the Iraqi public. Neither is identified as a military mouthpiece.”
ABC News reported[24] December 14, 2005, that it had “obtained a strategy document called ‘The Making of Heroes: Lincoln Group and the Fight for Fallujah’ — part of the Pentagon’s multi-million dollar public relations campaign to sell the American war effort to the Iraqis.”
The New York Times reported[33] January 2, 2006, that the Lincoln Group “has been compensating Sunni religious scholars in Iraq in return for assistance with its propaganda works … [T]he company’s ties to religious leaders and dozens of other prominent Iraqis is aimed also at enabling it to exercise influence in Iraqi communities on behalf of clients, including the military.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Lincoln_Group
Prior to that report, Lincoln Group of Washington, DC was awarded an indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity contract, with a potential maximum value of $100,000,000, for media approach planning, prototype product development, commercial quality product development, product distribution and dissemination, and media effects analysis for the Joint Psychological Operations Support element and other government agencies.
In September 2004, the major PR contract for the Multi-National Corps-Iraq was awarded to Iraqex, a “business clearinghouse company formed specifically to provide a swath of services in the war-torn country.” The Washington, D.C.-based Lincoln Alliance Corporation, a “business ‘intelligence’ company that handles services from ‘political campaign intelligence’ to commercial real estate in Iraq”, set up Iraqex last year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Group
WASHINGTON: A Pentagon contractor that paid Iraqi newspapers to run positive articles about U.S. efforts in Iraq also has been compensating Iraqi clerics and scholars in return for assistance with its propaganda work, according to company records and current and former employees.
Lincoln Group, a Washington-based public relations firm, was told early last year by the American military to identify religious leaders who could help craft messages that would persuade Sunnis in violence-ridden Al Anbar Province to participate in national elections and reject the insurgency, according to a former employee.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/01/01/news/cleric.php
Here’s one of your bolded text items:
CPA did not much care what the Arab Press thought.
Did you catch my drift in my last post on Bush giving Al Jazeera an exclusive interview? How does that square with the above text? I find it rather interesting that you post a link from “a producer for Fox News” to support your premise. Are you kidding me?
how many iraqis do think bought that story?
I don’t know but I do know that Iraq did not have a history of Sunni Shia genocide before the invasion.

Posted by: Sam | Apr 6 2008 2:23 utc | 39

so, you think the propaganda created the sunni/shia conflict? because i think it created the cover for it. personally, i think it was a cover for the death squads, which is what i think created the problem.
one of lincoln’s more ‘successful’ stunts
see the italics around successful? that means i am snarking.
from your link..Prior to that report, Lincoln Group of Washington, DC was awarded an indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity contract, with a potential maximum value of $100,000,000, for media approach planning, prototype product development, commercial quality product development, product distribution and dissemination, and media effects analysis for the Joint Psychological Operations Support element and other government agencies.
one hundred million, bet that pays for a lot of ‘product development’
sam, pulling saddams stature was implemented by the military psyops team. i can understand you drawing a big thick line between them and lincoln. i don’t. they are both coordinated out of saic think tankers. same w/senor and the massively coordinated pr machine eminating from the cpa. i do find it a little odd you would use as an example an employee of lincoln, the enemy, and then dish a person who is critical of senor because he was aa mouthpiece for fox. they both represent whistleblowers.
once again, i don’t think iraqis killed eachother because of the propaganda, i think they did it because their family members were being massacred. lincoln and the psyops teams and the military and the msm who lapped up the lingo provided another rational created for our consumption. (ie/defining moments) this is just my view. i can accept yours but i do not agree w/it.
frankly i am not clear how you separate military psyops w/lincoln as you can read the employee of lincoln telling you everything was run thru and approved thru casy of kimmit or… the military.
please, i wish you can accept i simply do not agree w/you. i have had one on one in person dialogue w/iraqis, friends regarding this topic. they worked in the press in iraq. they tell me they always knew truth from fiction. iraqis were printing that stuff because we paid for it to be placed in their papers. i am not clear how it is you think you or me or anyone can recognize lies on our msm, but you think iraqis can’t recognize it in theirs?
once again, can we agree to disagree? i think i am done w/this topic.

Posted by: annie | Apr 6 2008 7:39 utc | 40

ok, i said i was done but one more thing. this was not about sunni shia. it was about nationaist vs federalist. those who would go along w/the divide iraq plan vs those who wouldn’t. however it morphed after lots of death.
did iraqis believe all the market bombs were a result of ‘sunni insurgents’. please. do you or me or iraqis believe the cia wouldn’t do anything like that? did americans even know about ‘nationalists’ in the early part of the war? no. did iraqis? of course. ies there were iraqis who believed in us. but there were many many many who didn’t. who had there eyes open. who still have their eyes open. americans? no.
american think it was all about bad terrorists and ‘moderate’ iraqis, or something equally absurd, like ‘shia and sunni have never gotten along. iraqis know that is not the case. propaganda only works on the naive. therefore, we are the most valued recipients because we are the most ignorant. we are also the ones who could have stopped this war from the beginning, not iraqis.

Posted by: annie | Apr 6 2008 7:51 utc | 41

I think the propaganda attempts through psyops or the lincoln group or whatever has had only a negligible effect, especially with regards to civil strife. Civil wars are usually the result of political sea change in anticipation to economic and or cultural consequences. Our own civil war was the result of the election of Lincoln (no pun intended), and the loss of political power by the south. In Iraq, the flawed election (by quota/sectarian list) structure, almost demanded that representation would coalesce along along sectarian/ethnic proportional lines. The U.S. pushed this system down the Iraqi throat because it deemed it could control political events by empowering one group at the expense of another, provided that group would do their bidding. I think its pretty clear that the the escalation of civil war in 2006 was primarily the result of “operation forward together” were by the Maliki government/Badr began to sweep Baghdad of Sunni/insurgent influence. It just so happened that this event was preceded by several months by the Sammara mosque bombing – but the real escalation in violence (summer of 2006) corresponds precisely with that operation. Of course the Mahdi army joined the fray, and have subsequently been blamed for initiating it, which is bogus. But, the point here is that the civil strife in Iraq was not precipitated by the propaganda, but by very real government actions taken by itself, and its proxies (in this case the Mahdi), that had very real and serious consequences for the populations involved. The aftermath of which is 4 million mostly Sunni refugees in camps or in Syria, and their temporary alliance with the U.S. as awakening members. The current rumble between Maliki and Sadr is further proof that ethnicity and religious affiliation does not trump the political/economic power of the protagonist. Basra is after all the mother load of currency for the nation, controlled by someone – regardless of historic religious affiliation. Propaganda, by comparison is just veneer.

Posted by: anna missed | Apr 6 2008 8:49 utc | 42

annie:
sam, pulling saddams stature was implemented by the military psyops team. i can understand you drawing a big thick line between them and lincoln. i don’t. they are both coordinated out of saic think tankers.
It’s the time line. Lincoln wasn’t even hired yet when they pulled the statue down. They were still in the cakewalk era. It also illustrated my point that the media printed the propaganda for free knowing full well the true story. They still do. There has been so many success of the surge stories that US public support for the occupation has increased.
frankly i am not clear how you separate military psyops w/lincoln as you can read the employee of lincoln telling you everything was run thru and approved thru casy of kimmit or… the military.
Where did I say that? They were hired by the Pentagon to perform Psyops on Iraqis. That has been my premise from the start. They purchased an Iraqi newspaper and a radio station, they paid Iraqi media to publish pro occupation stories, they paid clerics and scholars etc. to push pro occupation ideas. That’s what was in my links. How do you get “separate” out of that? We are arguing over who they were hired to influence not whether they are separate.
i am not clear how it is you think you or me or anyone can recognize lies on our msm, but you think iraqis can’t recognize it in theirs?
If “anyone can recognize lies on our msm” George W Bush wouldn’t have been re-elected and Iraq wouldn’t have been invaded.
did iraqis believe all the market bombs were a result of ‘sunni insurgents’. please. do you or me or iraqis believe the cia wouldn’t do anything like that?
I wasn’t over there so I can’t answer that, but they sure killed a lot of Iraqi Sunni at the time and not very many Americans. In fact it was the Sunni that were killing the Americans at the time of the sectarian wars. and US psychological operations
anna missed:
I think the propaganda attempts through psyops or the lincoln group or whatever has had only a negligible effect, especially with regards to civil strife.
The Generals all admit that there is no military solution to this only a political one. That is diplomatic speak for Psyops. In couterinsurgency Psyops is the main weapon. If you don’t win the population you don’t win the war. Failure yes but hardly “negligible” given all the carnage it produced.

Posted by: Sam | Apr 6 2008 11:42 utc | 43

you may want to check out this thread here
#1
The author shows that the campaign was announced and for a domestic audience

the thread for an excellent post from billmon called blowback
sam, It’s the time line. Lincoln wasn’t even hired yet when they pulled the statue down.
hmm.
Even before the Iraq invasion, you may recall, Rummy and the gang were scheming to create their own in-house propaganda and disinformation operation, to be called the Office of Strategic Influence. The program was nominally killed after the critics pointed out how easily the phony news it created could drift back into the domestic media. (This was back when the Democrats still had a foot in the door of power, and Rumsfeld had to back down every once in awhile.)
But the Donald soon made it clear he intended to push through the budgetary back door what he couldn’t get through the front door. And after the Dems lost the Senate, he didn’t even try too hard to conceal what he was doing. The occupation of Iraq — and the money and lack of accountability it spawned — put the Pentagon in the “strategic influence” business in a big way, with its own TV news operation (the Pentagon Channel ), a Coalition-controlled Iraqi TV and radio network (now nominally in the hands of the Iraqi government, I presume, but still powered by Pentagon dollars and run by a U.S. vendor) and millions of dollars to hire PR firms and consultants to spin the coalition’s propaganda to the Iraqi people.
The net benefit of all this in terms of strategically influencing the Iraqis — or the rest of the Islamic world — has been roughly zero, or maybe even a negative number. But the benefit to the Bush administration and the Republican Party is a different sum, harder to measure. For some time now, one of my pet suspicions has been that the Pentagon’s psywar budget is both a hidden piggy bank and an R&D laboratory for the GOP’s own political propaganda operations.

christian baily, Lincoln Asset Management Group:

Alternative Investment News
March 1, 2003
SECTION: No. 3, Vol. 4; Pg. 12
IAC-ACC-NO: 98882123
LENGTH: 168 words
HEADLINE: New York firm launches defense sector LBO fund; Manager News; leveraged buyout; Brief Article
“Collaborative Human Understanding of Networked Knowledge (CHUNK)
Lincoln has been pursuing research into the analysis of sensitive information through the use of networked information workers. Developed in 2001, the concept allows for the fusion and analysis of sensitive information through the atomization of key information while maintaining the anonymity and integrity of the source data. Atomization of the data allows for sanitized channels to distribute the analysis of complex data sets to less capable and anonymous workers for parsing and initial review. The data is then recombined in a CHUNK server which aggregates and benchmarks the data in order to provide a unified understanding of the distributed analysis.

source

Posted by: annie | Apr 6 2008 17:18 utc | 44

i especially like this morsel of info from billmon’s blowback
Lincoln also appears to have its fingers in several projects that have a strong intelligence community coloration to them. These include techniques for allowing analysts to process distributed bits of classified data without ever seeing the whole picture, as well as (shades of Admiral Poindexter) something called: Role Based Online Gaming for Unconventional Environments (ROGUE)

In essence, ROGUE is a massive multiplayer game that allows private individuals to compete against government and military forces in unconventional scenarios. ROGUE incorporates a motivation and e-commerce system that rewards successful gamers with money and fame.

(If Lincoln really is part of some Pentagon-funded political black op, at least someone has a sense of humor about it.)
what exactly does that mean?????? who would those private individuals represent? would those private individuals be our inhouse or iraqi (chabali linked) private militias in iraq? are our private militias sometimes competing against the military on occasion? if the iraqi people don’t step up to the plate as predicted/anticipated and devolve in to total mayhem (#42 I think its pretty clear that the the escalation of civil war in 2006 was primarily the result of “operation forward together”) as a result of our military campaigns, do we have private actors carrying out defining moments? (#42 It just so happened that this event was preceded by several months by the Sammara mosque bombing – but the real escalation in violence (summer of 2006) corresponds precisely with that operation..
does the gaming @ ROUGE serve to coordinate antagonistic military/private sector operations? and how are these then coordinated /(lincoln)msm framing of the events?
is my little conspiracy minded brain getting toooo carried away.

Posted by: annie | Apr 6 2008 17:54 utc | 45


did iraqis believe all the market bombs were a result of ‘sunni insurgents’. please. do you or me or iraqis believe the cia wouldn’t do anything like that?
I wasn’t over there so I can’t answer that, but they sure killed a lot of Iraqi Sunni at the time and not very many Americans.

actually i think the majority of the ‘AQ’ and ‘sunni insurgent’ bombs were taking place in shia marketplaces. sadr city took quite a few hits. sunnis were getting treated to the drill. balance?

Posted by: annie | Apr 6 2008 18:10 utc | 46

The US pays people to kill their own (Iraqi) compatriots.
It is cheaper and easier and washes better in the media.
Sit back with popcorn and watch the carnage and the pundits agonizing.
Occasionally, the bought simply don’t comply. Then new negotiations take place, more money is paid, more arms are given, to both parties preferably, etc.
Such giving up of posts and arms has happened maybe about 30 times, right from the first days when the US created a special police force to guard the oil pipelines. These recruits soon saw their role as symbolic and were bored to tears, they liked the money, but they got flack from family/etc. so they simply vanished, trying to keep the pay for as long as possible.
Iraqis have no means of livelihood anymore, they can only suck off the occupiers. And that was calculated, imho.
Iraqi ‘selected’ leaders sigh, don’t show up for Parliament and spend 6 months of the year in London.
Buying into the various factions (Sunni, Shia) etc. indirectly legitmises (or pretends to ignore) a vicious, large scale, murderous, illegitimate ‘war’ and ‘occupation.’ Genocide, actually.
For shame.

Posted by: Tangerine | Apr 6 2008 18:10 utc | 47

annie:
sam, It’s the time line. Lincoln wasn’t even hired yet when they pulled the statue down.
hmm.
Even before the Iraq invasion, you may recall, Rummy and the gang were scheming to create their own in-house propaganda and disinformation operation, to be called the Office of Strategic Influence.

Which has nothing to do with the Lincoln Group. This is what you wrote:
one of lincoln’s more ‘successful’ stunts pulled off early in the invasion was the photo op pulling down saddam’s statue w/the screaming crowd.
In other words you were making stuff up and that’s what we were arguing about not whether the Pentagon was using Psyops. You also posted this:
but i still think the primary target of US propaganda in iraq is the american public.
Then you posted this:
(#42 I think its pretty clear that the the escalation of civil war in 2006 was primarily the result of “operation forward together”)
How do you square both those statement? The latter supports my premise and thanks for supporting my argument.

Posted by: Sam | Apr 6 2008 18:46 utc | 48

errr. sam, my point here

people like ‘defining moments’. if anyone choses to define when the pentagon or christian baily became involved in these propaganda programs or why, and chooses to define that time w/a certain defining contract date, that is their prerogative.

if you read the blowback link it establishes bailey’s associations w/the designers of this war prior to the war. if you would like to be ‘right’ in that the specific group or person aligned w/a specific name and a specific job pertaining to a specific contract and what specific jobs that contract did according to the official purpose of that contract,,, take a bow.
i don’t know how i can be any clearer. the TASK of the PEOPLE carrying out the psyops, which i often consider INTERCHANGEABLE w/the military campaign, certainly INTERCHANGABLE /saic, and this was going on w/the same people, including baily, prior to the war. i do not think you can isolate ‘propaganda for iraqi consumption’ from the overriding mission for the war (big gop bucks) which baily was completely involved with as demonstrated by my links.
from the very beginning there was a meme set for this war as broken down recently by rosen for the senate hearings.
sunni nazi shiite jews.
nice little package for AMERICAN CONSUMPTION.
the Office of Strategic Influence.
……….
Which has nothing to do with the Lincoln Group.

i beg to differ, they served the exact same function. these guys are artist at popping up w/other pretexts and names. here is another example of how the same people re emerge in sheeps clothing. although it is a different topic, there is a theme. i am sorry if i cannot make myself clearer.
the people who gave lincoln the contract, and the design , the intended purpose was identical to saddam’s statue pulled. considering the facts of this did not come out in the US msm until way after mission accomplished, tho i am certain was completely comprehended by iraqis, makes it a ‘success’. in terms of the war effort here at the homeland.
In other words you were making stuff up
in other words this is about you and me and how much integrity each of us have vs our ideas or arguments. i very much do not think i have made anything up. i think in the back of my mind, from reading about this war from the beginning, it is my understanding lincoln is an extension of the same ol guys.
you are the other hand seem more interested in making me wrong than understanding my point.
who designed it? a couple generals? who was that crowd? chabali’s guys? when was it planned? pre invasion? pre pre invasion …say when they were first wet dreaming about the hearts minds throwing flowers? it was a massive planned well organized fiasco likly emenating straight out of saic which lincoln is a direct arm of.. they are not completely interchangeable because saic is the body and lincoln is an arm. nothing lincoln does is divorced from saic. excuse my sloppiness at referring to lincolns toppling of the statue. for me, there is no difference. and extremely likely the same operators using the same gaming planned planned it.
to break it down even further for you imagine a family of 5 brothers. they plan a war. they plan a propaganda fiasco prior to the war. after the war breaks out one of the brothers is task w/continuing a portion of the propaganda. lets call him bill. we are debating whether bill or his brother tom or his other 4 brothers or all of them together toppled saddam’s statue. you are sticking w/the bill line. i think it is irrelevant and calling the initial propaganda bill’s is totally appropriate.
but i still think the primary target of US propaganda in iraq is the american public.
Then you posted this:
(#42 I think its pretty clear that the the escalation of civil war in 2006 was primarily the result of “operation forward together”)

sit down and take a breath and try to hear my words (first of all i quoted anna missed twice in that paragraph and i reversed the order of the quotes, but that is irrelevant to the topic)
here is precisely what i think, completely unsubstantiated.
i do not think the pulses of the war are a natural result of iraqi animosity. i think it is highly probable the pulses of the war are timed months and months in advance preceeded by months of timed propaganda preparing the narrative.
i think the deadline of the 06 election determined the psyops surrounding the timing of operation forward together. i think the samarra explosion was supposed to kick off the civil war WHICH HAD NOT, AFTER 3 FRIGGIN YEARS OF EFFORTS, yet escalated to the degree needed to convince the american public iraqi were really bloodthirsty animals clawing at eachothers throats from years of animosity. either way, whether samarra explosion did or did not do the job of getting a civil war off the ground, operation IF (they love fucking w/the names, forward together my ass, exactly) was by design probably sometime back in 04 coordinated to get iraq in a total clusterfuck prior to the elections to insure whoever got in charge of congress, dems or gop, they would not, could not rationally exit iraq without being morally evil and INSURING if we left iraqis would be EVEN WORSE AND WE WERE THE ONLY THING GLUEING IRAQ TOGETHER.
the civil war in 2006 was primarily the result of “operation forward together
the propaganda that led to and surrounded and justified that operation was directly linked to the pyops covert blowing up of the mosque. a narrative was created in the press in iraq and in the press in the US of “bad sunni good shia sunni shia hate eachother look we can prove it over and over and finally it bursts and we come to fix it but oh too bad it is only worse and they really need us now.”
and THAT propaganda was designed to happen for US consumption prior to the 06 elections. the mosque wasn’t good enough, the escalation did not really kick off until OTF.
does that answer you question wrt How i square both those statements?
the propaganda did not cause the civil war. it was designed to accompany the covert actions, the genocide.. which is what led to civil war.

Posted by: annie | Apr 6 2008 19:46 utc | 49

also, the propaganda was designed to justify OTF which was likely planned before the mosque got bombed. you don’t really think in february they haven’t already planned the summer operations do you? they plan these operations way in advance. just like basra was planned around the iraqi elections. a long time ago most likely.

Posted by: annie | Apr 6 2008 19:58 utc | 50

In a nutshell, Operation Together Forward was the ethnic cleansing of Baghdad, presented in the language of propaganda as a civil war, aimed primarily for U.S./ world consumption. I suppose in many respects it worked, as subsequent event played out; the U.S. while fully involved in ethnic cleansing of Baghdad in OTF, successfully presented itself as the only arbiter or hedge preventing (an even worse) civil war while shielding its own involvement, the Sunni insurgency (and its population support) was pushed out of much of Baghdad, and into a deal with the occupation, and Sadr felt secure enough, in acquired real estate, to call for a stand down of Mahdi army operations. All of which made for a compelling enough case last September, to buy another year of occupation in Washington on the illusion that progress was being made. But as recent events would prove, its all a fabrication.

Posted by: anna missed | Apr 6 2008 20:21 utc | 51

In a nutshell, Operation Together Forward was the ethnic cleansing of Baghdad,
exactly. i shouldn’t have called it a civil war. thank you for stating it so precisely anna missed. you can say in one paragraph what it takes me a thread to (clumsily) spit out.
right now happening in sadr city.
Fire erupts in Sadr-City because of the fights, Iran ignores the U.S. talk offer
Urgent…Reported right now that Allawi-Jamila …is on fire because of the fights in Sadr-City between the Americans and Mahdi Army.

more @ badger’s
US air-strikes in Sadr City, and the political context of the War on Sadr
the US/iran shuffle is getting very dicey

Posted by: annie | Apr 6 2008 21:05 utc | 52

I give up annie your are right I am wrong.

Posted by: Sam | Apr 6 2008 21:23 utc | 53

sam, you are not wrong, you and annie are really in agreement.
whether it is lincoln or msm, the propagenda going out is the same. it really isn’t that hard to do. you just stay on message. no need for weekly meetings or written notes.
a lot of what happens is not planned but is a reaction to something that already happened. sometimes you can turn it to your advantage, sometimes not. the US is still the play maker though the other guys get a few points now and again.

Posted by: dan of steele | Apr 6 2008 21:39 utc | 54

oh sam, we just have a difference of opinion. why can’t we just agree to disagree and call it a day. our differences are not that great, it sounds like we agree on a lot of things. it is not a matter of giving up. we can never give up righting the wrongs. all of us here on on the same team.

Posted by: annie | Apr 7 2008 0:27 utc | 55