Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 9, 2007
Some Thoughts On The Dollar

The Dollar will continue to fall until the central bankers and politicians get together and hammer out a new deal on how and when to stop it. It will take a lot of pain to make that happen.

The Europeans are concerned that the Dollar fall will hit their economies. This week French President Sarkozy called for a strong dollar. When chancellor Merkel is in Washington these next days she will have the issue on her agenda too. Jean-Claude Trichet, the head of the European Central Bank, also made some noise:

The ECB almost certainly believes that more overt currency market intervention requires agreement with other central banks. But in spite of concerns that the weaker dollar will increase the risk of inflation, the Fed has shown no interest in currency intervention.

Obviously the U.S. has decided to let the Dollar fall further. F… the Europeans. This will rapidly increase the prices the U.S. consumers have to pay for energy and other imports. A lower Dollar may help Boeing to sell a few more airplanes, but the little folks will get screwed by high prices and a tanking economy.

If the Fed would be independent and smart, it would increase interest rates by several points. That would squeeze out inflation and lead to a healthy fast deflation of the popping credit bubble. But the Feds concern is Wall Street and plenty of cheap money, it hopes, will keep the banks and the stock markets up.

There is still resistance by the banks to acknowledge the real amount of junk papers they have in their books. When the first Mortgage Backed Securities were downgraded people spoke of possible losses of $50 billion. Now some talk of $500 billion. My estimate is a trillion and then some.

This not only from mortgage papers and related debt obligations and derivatives thereof, but also from various debt obligations that aggregate consumer credit cards and car loans. People losing their home will not balance their credit cards or honor their car loans. The papers backed by these loans are thereby also junk. The trillion in bank losses come on top of the trillions in book losses home owners have with the values of their houses declining. The size of this devaluation is unprecedented.

The Fed tries to keep the markets up but it is obvious that something systemic went wrong and the huge mess in the credit markets will over time be reflected in stock values too. When Google stocks are back down at $100 the crisis may be over. But we are still far away from that.

Little noticed, another bubble burst this week. After eleven years of rising art prices Sotheby, the British auction house, yesterday failed to sell a load of impressionist artwork for the suggested prices.

Analysts were particularly struck by the fact that Vincent van Gogh’s landscape, Wheat Fields, possibly his last finished work, painted in 1890 two weeks before he committed suicide, was left unsold; Sotheby’s had valued it at up to $35m (£17.5m).
[…]
Overall, Sotheby’s brought in $270m from Wednesday night’s sale, failing to meet even its low estimate of $401m including commissions.

Sotheby’s had given guarantees to the art owners and failed to sell above these. As it had to eat the losses, Sotheby stocks lost 40% of their value.

This is certainly a sign that even people with lots of money are holding back. The next bubble to burst is the British housing market. The Chinese stock market, while still in an upswing, doesn’t look healthy either. Besides commodities, everything is poised to go down.

But back to the Dollar. It has to fall further but should fall more against the Yen and the Yuan than against the Euro. There are political reasons why this is not happening.

China is not pleased with the U.S. behavior in the world, especially in Iran, Pakistan and Sudan where it has interests. It certainly has no sympathies that would allow for a solid deal on exchange rates.

Japan has bad experience with the last big Dollar fall. In 1985 it got screwed in a similar situation. The Dollar was overvalued and in the Plaza Accord big money nations agreed and pressed the Japanese to let it fall. The Yen doubled in value over a short time which led to an asset price bubble in Japan. When that bubble burst, fifteen years of relative economic misery followed.

For now the Euro, CanDo, Pound and other ‘western’ currencies and their economies will have to take the burden of the falling Dollar. At a certain point, like when €1 will cost $1.50, the ECB may try to intervene alone but not in a serious way. This could lead to a short term counter rally in the Dollar markets but can only be sustained for a few weeks.

Through its behavior, the U.S. has lost credit in the world. This also in a very monetary sense. The Dollar will therefor fall further and its time as primary reserve currency may be over. The pains of the popping bubbles get socialized to the consumers in the U.S. and elsewhere.

Comments

If the dollar keeps falling against euro, then the ECB and EU at large could just decide to buy the whole effing US, or at least a good chunk of it. And then impose their own rules in the US, to end the madness. I mean, are they afraid? If it works for, say, Togo, why wouldn’t it be doable with the US economy – it’s just a question of size, of how high euro rises and how low dollar falls.
That said, personally I don’t even see why Trichet would bother. Let the dollar fall. At some point, it will fall so low it won’t ever be able to recover, whatever Wall Street, Fed, DC or even Brussels try. Just push it overboard once and for all instead of triangluating, and let the whole house of cards come crashing down. The Fed thinks it can screw up the rest of the world, but doesn’t realise that it’s only because the rest of the world has an interest in keeping a strong US economy; if that rest of the world decided to screw the US for real, they could just annihilate the dollar.
Chinese stocks will take a hit sooner or later. With the US economy, it’s one of the 2 main catastrophes with worldwide consequences (and often nasty side-effects) that I can see coming.
And interesting to see Sotheby’s taking a huge hit. Before the auctions, people were wondering how insanely high the bidding would go.

Posted by: CluelessJoe | Nov 9 2007 16:43 utc | 1

This is a fascinating and very helpful thread. I appreciate the top post, b, and look forward to the brainy comments. Thanks!

Posted by: Jake | Nov 9 2007 17:17 utc | 2

Let the dollar fall. At some point, it will fall so low it won’t ever be able to recover …
CJ, or someone, please flesh this out for me.
What would “so low” actually be – 1€ buys $2, $3? What actually would happen … ? Since the US has no wage inflation, hyperinflation doesn’t seem to follow.
What would push the $ out of reserve currency status?
Also looking forward to the discussion. Thanks b!

Posted by: Hamburger | Nov 9 2007 18:17 utc | 3

Good analysis. I agree with the assertion you make in the first paragraph. But, I don’t think the FED or Wall St. boys have nearly as much control as they think they do. I’ve been reading a lot on this (kinda like watching a car crash in slow motion), and I’m especially liking this blog: http://elainemeinelsupkis.typepad.com/ She’s a colourful writer, I’ll say that much – you’ll be entertained if nothing else. But, fwiw, I think she’s got the right perspective on what’s happening to understand it like few others do. Hope you and your readers find it useful!

Posted by: sdfa | Nov 9 2007 18:33 utc | 4

CJ – That said, personally I don’t even see why Trichet would bother. Let the dollar fall.
The European exporters (Airbus with very high influence -> Sarkozy) would like a higher Dollar as their products are competing with Boeing.
Then again, if the Dollar would not be the world reserve currency, people may want to start calculating in Euros or (nuch better) in a basket of currencies. Some oil countries have started this. Stability of value is important in business. If you make a contract today and you get payed a year from now, you don’t want high devaluation inbetween.
@Hamburger – What would “so low” actually be – 1€ buys $2, $3? What actually would happen … ? Since the US has no wage inflation, hyperinflation doesn’t seem to follow. 1€=$2 is quite possible.
The U.S. has (not yet) a high wage inflation but the heating bills will be double this winter from last winter. Forget the official “core” inflation measure which doesn’t include food and fuel prices. Even the official overall inflation number is a rediculous lie. (There are big governments programs like social security that get automatic increases bound to the inflation numbers. Hence there is a huge motive to keep the official numbers low.)
I indeed can see a hyperinflation scenario in the U.S. if the Fed keeps dropping money into the markets to save the banks. Citibank should be bankrupt by now but is kept alive with Fed money. Google “helicopter Bernanke”. The guy, with Bush’s support, is likely to really inflate. The stock market went down 3% and he lowered the interest rate by 0.5%. What will he do when the market drops 30%?
Wage inflation is NOT necessary to get hyperinflation. Wages indeed usually lag inflation. Only in economic boom times they run in front. We now have a serious demand driven commodity inflation which in the U.S. is excaberated by the tanking $. Countering that is asset deflation (houses). To the consumer this sums up to real hurt.
What would push the $ out of reserve currency status?
Devaluing – if the Dollar sinks, why should I keep it as a reserve, I lose money. If the U.S. governement has a “not strong dollar” policy why should I keep anything in Dollar terms? Additionally if commodities and major goods priced and exchanged on a non-dollar base, what do I need Dollars for at all?
The process is already going on: China Reserves to Favor Strong Currencies, Cheng Says

China will invest in stronger currencies when diversifying its $1.43 trillion foreign-exchange reserves, said Cheng Siwei, vice chairman of the National People’s Congress.
“We will favor stronger currencies over weaker ones, and will readjust accordingly,” Cheng said in a speech before a conference in Beijing today. The dollar is “losing its status as the world currency,” Xu Jian, a central bank vice director, said at the same meeting.

China has 1.5 trillions in reserve, mostly US$. If they throw that on the markets, the dollar will fall further. It is now a self enforcing trend, positive recoupling: “The Dollar will fall further because it falls.”

Posted by: b | Nov 9 2007 18:45 utc | 5

Sorry, Jake, but my comment is not brainy. A couple of dumb questions is all I can manage. As far as I know, America is dependent almost entirely on foreign manufactured goods. America imports the bulk of its petroleum. Can the dollar fall so far that the government cannot maintain its welfare clientele? I have my own opinions about what would happen in that case, but I’d rather know yours. Has anyone else thought about this?

Posted by: Gringo_Malo | Nov 9 2007 19:06 utc | 6

The dollar is backed by nothing except the full faith and credit of the US government. The euro is backed by nothing so there is no manner of considering both currencies in terms of some material backing. Since all the currencies are backed only by the full faith and credit of the emitting governments it follows that what falls or loses value is simply the full faith and credit of the emitting governemnt. So in reality that the dollar should rise or fall is an indication of the stature in which people hold the US governmnt.

Posted by: jlcg | Nov 9 2007 19:15 utc | 7

I can only add more questions to the mix, I am curious as to the status of the pound. Britain has delayed adopting the euro, will they win or lose if the dollar becomes super inflated like the currencies of Turkey or Yugoslavia did? Maybe those are not fair comparisons, so how about Argentina?
since the chinese currency is pegged to the dollar, won’t that make chinese products even cheaper in europe?

Posted by: dan of steele | Nov 9 2007 19:24 utc | 8

@jlgc – So in reality that the dollar should rise or fall is an indication of the stature in which people hold the US government.
YES – I wrote above after giving it some thought “Through its behavior, the U.S. has lost credit in the world.”
The U.S. in leading the wolf pack was accepted. The U.S. as the lone wolf disturbing wherever it feels like is not. Now the bills comes forward for this behaviour. Quite simple …
@Grinfo Malo – America is dependent almost entirely on foreign manufactured goods. America imports the bulk of its petroleum. Can the dollar fall so far that the government cannot maintain its welfare clientele?
The first assumption is not really true. The U.S. imports quite a bit but it can produce a lot too if it would be willing to and industry policy would allow for it. Universial healthcare, for example, is an advantage the global car industy has versus the U.S. car industry. Volkswagon does pay half of the health care costs Ford has to pay – with better results.
For the last decades, making money in finance ponzi schemes was easier than in industry work. The U.S. has good capabilities. It doesn’t use them in the right place.
On energy: Yes, the U.S. imports 2/3rd of its need. But the need could be cut and more domestic sources (wind?, less heating through better insulation, less SUVs) could be used.
If the U.S. would get some sane politics that less depend on money schemes and more on real things it would be, economically and physically, be much healthier. But greed looks for short term return and there the financial “industry” has a, short term, advantage.
Can the dollar fall so far that the government cannot maintain its welfare clientele?
In teh books – no. The U.S: pays its “welfare clientele” in US$. The amount of Dollars for that will not shrink. Just the amount of veggies you can buy for that ….

Posted by: b | Nov 9 2007 19:39 utc | 9

Too bad Boeing is outsourcing 70% of its 787 to other countries. Like with other companies, these processes can’t be recalled easily.

Posted by: biklett | Nov 9 2007 19:48 utc | 10

@DoS – I can only add more questions to the mix, I am curious as to the status of the pound. Britain has delayed adopting the euro, will they win or lose if the dollar becomes super inflated like the currencies of Turkey or Yugoslavia did? Maybe those are not fair comparisons, so how about Argentina?
The British pound will get a beating when the British mortgage bubble bursts. That has been delayed and I am not sure why. See this BBC stats. Can 10%-20%-30% annual house price increases year over year be sustainable???
since the chinese currency is pegged to the dollar, won’t that make chinese products even cheaper in europe?
That is a problem for the ECB. The real adjustment has to be in Yuan/Yen vs. Dollar. An overvalued Euro would induce Chinese imports that will threaten European industies. (In reality the threat is not that strong because the industry structure is different in Europe. “Europe doesn’t make things, but things to make things.” But the general trend is the same and would excellerate.
But a high valued Euro means cheap oil as long as oil is available in Dollar terms. If oil changes to Euro terms and rises in that, there is a problem. But then, if Oil rises in Euro terms, the Chinese bound to a Dollar coupled Yuan have a huge problem too. They import lots of oil and are inefficient users..)

Posted by: b | Nov 9 2007 19:55 utc | 11

b wrote: “The U.S: pays its ‘welfare clientele’ in US$. The amount of Dollars for that will not shrink. Just the amount of veggies you can buy for that …. ”
Right, but if the government’s welfare clients notice that their benefits don’t buy the customary amount of veggies, or whatever, they’ll be really upset. What do you suppose will happen then?

Posted by: Gringo_Malo | Nov 9 2007 20:39 utc | 12

Ummn, when push comes to shove, you need to take account of the fact that the dollar is not backed by either gold or silver, but by PLUTONIUM, which trumps a lot of things which, although rational,don’t mean much

Posted by: Chuck Cliff | Nov 9 2007 21:10 utc | 13

Gringo asked has anybody else thought about this?
Answer: yes. first thing.

Posted by: rjj | Nov 9 2007 21:39 utc | 14

A Perfect STORM.
Bye bye, Miss American Pie.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 9 2007 22:51 utc | 15

Oil Price Rise Causes Global Shift in Wealth

High oil prices are fueling one of the biggest transfers of wealth in history. Oil consumers are paying $4 billion to $5 billion more for crude oil every day than they did just five years ago, pumping more than $2 trillion into the coffers of oil companies and oil-producing nations this year alone.

In the United States, the rising bill for imported petroleum lowers already anemic consumer savings rates, adds to inflation, worsens the trade deficit, undermines the dollar and makes it more difficult for the Federal Reserve to balance its competing goals of fighting inflation and sustaining growth.

The Fed errs on the side of “sustaining growth” thus increasing inflation which will kill off growth later on.

Posted by: b | Nov 10 2007 10:15 utc | 16

Some good explainations on Collaterized Debt Obligations. The piece confirms my 1 Trillion loss statement in the post above.
CDOs: The Ticking Time Bomb

CDOs are structured investments that contain a variety of assets, often tranches of residential mortgage securitizations (often the BBB or BBB- portion), commercial mortgages, pieces of collateralized loan obligations (LBO debt), and sometimes whole residential mortgages, There are also CDO squared (CDOs made from CDOs) and CDO cubed, and synthetic CDOs (CDOs constructed from the cashflows of credit default swaps written as credit enhancement for other CDOs). Because the assets in CDOs are heterogeneous, and the mix is particular to each deal, the structures vary tremendously as well.

the estimates of CDOs outstanding are all over the map, but the ones we find more credible range from $2.0 to $3.9 trillion (we have also seen smaller estimates, but when the Financial Times, which has done far and away the best job of covering this market, reports that global CDO issuance in 2006 alone was $2.6 trillion, we tend to put our faith in the bigger numbers.

And let’s consider an ugly factoid. In its third quarter results, Merrill wrote down its CDO holdings by an estimated 30% or more. These were reported to be almost entirely AAA rated. This does not allow for either the further deterioration, nor the fact that downgrades are proceeding, which will impair value even more.

If others join Merrill in a 30% write down of CDOs and 3 trillion+ are in the markets there is $1 trillion loss that needs to be recognized. Maybe even much more.
A trillion here a trillion there and suddenly we are talking about real money …

Posted by: b | Nov 10 2007 16:34 utc | 17

b
As the comments indicate, Boeing outsourced most of the production of the 787 and now it is biting back. But, the US air fleet is ancient, only start ups like JetBlue have younger jets, the rest can’t afford new planes in a deregulated marketplace. Most sales and financing are overseas so Boeing is between a rock and a hard place.
The USA is right now in a strange schizophrenic limbo land; maybe like France from 1939 to 1940. The USA is in two wars but is not on a war footing at home except the government agitprop broadcasting “Be Scared”, “Americans are Good Guys” and “The Economy is Great”. The cost of electricity and gasoline is skyrocketing, food increasing, and anything that requires skilled installation is very expensive. The only items that are remaining the same price or are cheaper are imported manufactured goods like computer hard drives but the quality is declining to save money or overproduced like DDR2 Memory. Consumers, War Profiteers and Con Artists (Financiers) have been bingeing on free money but the Bill is coming due.
One response to the coming Crash is withdrawal to Fortress American and energy independence; a vast project to provide mass transportation to most American workers who cannot afford a car anymore; but, another, from the “Bomb ‘Em Beak to the Stone Age” leaders is nuclear war. Something dreadful is being written on the wall, but corporate media is ignoring it.

Posted by: VietnamVet | Nov 10 2007 17:54 utc | 18

More from Elaine –
Weeping and Wailing over Dying Dollar

… Europe stupidly banded together behind a single currency but didn’t set things up so they can run their FOREX systems like China, Japan and Russia. The use of a centralized FOREX reserve which can hold dollars and thus, keep one’s currency weaker than the dollar, is of prime importance. This discovery that Japan stumbled upon after the Plaza Accords made the yen too strong, was figured out by China and then by myself. Not to be too boastful, my focus on this element has grown over the years as I watch this FOREX scheme operate. Now that an increasing number of export-oriented nations are using the Japanese FOREX scheme, we can clearly see how Europe has been hobbled by their nationalism. Namely, they can’t use their joint FOREX accounts to defend the euro. They are holding half a trillion in reserves, collectively, but this is disorganized and disjointed. The one thing Europe knows is, they MUST sell to the US or die.

The countries holding dollars will have more power over the US, not less! The plan of the dollar devaluators was to reduce the power of Asia by devaluing the dollar and also to dilute the power of the oil exporters the same way. But if a huge hunk of asset value vanishes in the West, this scheme will fail. This is the Horns of Dilemma we hear about. We are surrounded by these horns. All funny money choices have the same end: the destruction of America. There is only one choice we can make that will save us: we must tax oil heavily and go into an emergency session of retrofitting our country to operate on a lot less oil!

My emphasis above.
A trillion in losses in the mortgage/credit/liquidity/solvency crisis may not have the effect of beggaring our trade partners? Whoa!

…The world is already in a trade war! And the US stupidly thought that being able to buy stuff cheap meant we were the winners! Now that the trap is closing on our necks, we are in a panic. I must remind everyone that Japan and Europe don’t want to destroy the US, they just want to DOMINATE the US and thus, continue imperial pretensions without paying the bills. But China is not of this class. China intends to dominate the WORLD. This definitely includes Japan and Europe. And so their geo-political game plans are running along with our allies’ plans to act as leeches. They leech while China crushes our power forever. …

Posted by: Hamburger | Nov 10 2007 23:09 utc | 19

Sotheby’s had given guarantees to the art owners and failed to sell above these.
This is not what happens at Sotheby’s. The owner of the artwork sets a reserve (minimum) price in consultation with Sotheby’s. If the bidding doesn’t reach that price, the work is withdrawn unsold. If the price goes higher then it is sold. The problem at S was that too many works didn’t reach their reserve price. I am not certain whether the reserve price is publicly declared or not, but you can be certain that it is close to what the owner thinks they ought to get for the work.

Posted by: Alex | Nov 11 2007 10:13 utc | 20

@Alex – sorry, I screwed up the url in the above post – Guardian: Disastrous sale sends Sotheby’s shares falling by 37% in one day

The poor performance will have hurt the auction house particularly keenly, because 26 of the lots were “guaranteed”, meaning that Sotheby’s had pledged to pay the sellers a set amount even if the works remained unsold. Both the Van Gogh and the Braque had guarantees attached.

Posted by: b | Nov 11 2007 10:31 utc | 21

from Hamburger:
China intends to dominate the WORLD.
They’re hard at work bringing that day on as quickly as they can. To wit:
When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.
At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical wizardry of the world’s only military superpower offers an invisible shield to detect and deter any intruders.
That is the theory. Or, rather, was the theory.
American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk – a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.
By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.
According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation in the U.S. Navy.
The Americans had no idea China’s fast-growing submarine fleet had reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a threat.
One Nato figure said the effect was “as big a shock as the Russians launching Sputnik” – a reference to the Soviet Union’s first orbiting satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.
Sputnik – The Sequel

Posted by: jj | Nov 11 2007 10:58 utc | 22

@jj – I doubt that report about the Chinese sub. It has likely be planted to give the Navy an argument in budget fights …

Posted by: b | Nov 11 2007 11:39 utc | 23

So much for the weak dollar helping out Boeing, Seems the puppets are starting to cut their strings;
Reuters
Emirates picks Airbus A350 in $35 bln deal
Sunday November 11, 8:59 am ET
By James Cordahi and Jason Neely
DUBAI (Reuters) – Dubai-based airline Emirates (EMAIR.UL) picked the Airbus (Paris:EAD.PA – News) A350 airliner over Boeing’s (NYSE:BA – News) 787 in orders potentially worth $35 billion on Sunday, grabbing centre stage on the first day of the Dubai Air Show.
Deals this week could make 2007 the biggest year in history for planemakers as soaring crude oil prices drive orders for new, more fuel efficient airliners such as the A380 superjumbo and Boeing’s mid-sized 787 Dreamliner.
The Gulf’s biggest airline bought 70 A350s and took options on 50 more while extending its lead as the biggest buyer of the Airbus A380 superjumbo by adding another 11.
Emirates’ orders included 12 long-range 777-300ERs from Boeing Co (NYSE:BA – News) worth $3.2 billion.
The industry is in the third year of a record level of demand spurred by new aircraft as well as the spread of budget airlines.
Boeing’s biggest deal came from Qatar Airways, which ordered 30 787s and options to buy 30 more.
It also bought 27 777s and took five options.
Boeing entered the air show leading Airbus in their annual race for orders but the gap narrowed on Sunday.
While the 787 is already the fastest-selling new Boeing in history, the Emirates order for the A350 XWB (Xtra Wide Body) is a major boost for the new Airbus plane, which has been the subject of fitful design changes over the last two years.
The battle between the 787 and A350 for sales to industry heavyweight Emirates was being closely watched by industry analysts.
“The 787-9 is a smaller aircraft with fewer seats,” said Tim Clark, Emirates airline president, explaining the decision to go with the Airbus.
“The 10 is just not being offered,” he said, referring to a stretched version of the 787 which some airlines have urged Boeing to launch.
Separately Rolls-Royce (LSE:RR.L – News) said it would supply engines for the A350s in a deal that could be worth $8.4 billon if Emirates firms all options.
Meanwhile Brazilian planemaker Embraer (Sao Paolo:EMBR3.SA – News; NYSE:ERJ – News) announced an order for 10 aircraft from Virgin Nigeria and for 19 business jets from Globalia of Spain and Falcon Aviation.
And United Technologies Corp (NYSE:UTX – News) unit Sikorsky signed a deal for 40 helicopters from Saudi Arabia’s Ministry of Interior.
The air show runs until Thursday.
Industry sources said Dubai Aerospace Enterprise (DAE), Saudi Arabian Airlines and Air Arabia (Dusseldorf:AIRA.DU – News) are among those expected to announce orders this week.

Posted by: Lysander | Nov 11 2007 21:07 utc | 24

@jj – 22 – back in 2006 there was a similar story of a chinese sub stalking a carrier.
PRC-Owned ZTS Discusses Reports of PRC Song Submarine Stalking USS ‘Kitty Hawk’
A lot of disinfo in such stories.
Last year there was also the story of the Indian air force with old Russian jets beating U.S. fighter jets. The story was used to justify more F-22.
It later turned out that during that mock fight the U.S. jets didn’t used their radar …
That also was around budget time …
Typically such stories are lauchend in the non-U.S. press, bypassing laws that forbid the U.S. military to launch false propaganda in the home press. Favorite outlets: UK Telegraph, UK Daily Mail and UK Times …

Posted by: b | Nov 11 2007 22:16 utc | 25

I remember when I was a kid being fascinated by stories of the Russian atomic plane. There were even secretly taken photographs of it. We couldn’t afford to let the US fall behind. What if the Russians had a fleet of atomic planes and we didn’t. Lots of money had to be allocated for research. Looking back, the idea of radiation spewing bombs buzzing around seems ludicrous, but at the hight of cold war paranoia, the public was taken in. It turned out the whole thing was a fake instigated by companies that hoped to profit from gov. funding aided by the military.

Posted by: Sgt Dan | Nov 11 2007 23:54 utc | 26

Interesting take, b-. Made sense, til I found the following.
Compared with the previous Chinese-built submarines, the Type 039 has a more hydro-dynamically sleek profile. To reduce the submarine’s acoustic signature, the main engine is fitted with a shock absorbance, and the hull is covered by rubber anti-sonar protection tiles similar to those used on the Russian Kilo class. Rubber Coating Sub Hulls
What do you make of this? Plausible? Sophisticated Propaganda? Fairy Tales?

Posted by: jj | Nov 12 2007 6:23 utc | 27

@jj
– every submarine has a “hydro-dynamically sleek profile”. They were not ever build as sharp cornered cubic boxes.
– every ship machine is build on shock/vibration absorbant engine mounts to avoid vibrations that over-time would weaken the hull.
– rubber coating a sub hull is not exactly new technology

German submarine research during WWII developed a coating, which absorbed sonar pings,and, thus, reduced target strength. It was known by the code-name Alberich. “Alberich was a 4-mm thick layer of rubber, which ****led echo reflections in the range of 10 kHz -18 kHz up to approximately 15%, but not at all diving depths,” wrote German naval historian Eberhard Rössler. The first tests began in 1940, but the synthetic rubber coating “did not stick very efficiently to the hull.” The first operational use came in 1944.

A sub may well stalk a carrier in peaceful transit somewhere. It doesn’t say anything about the capability to do so when a carrier group is on war footing. Then there would be frigates around pinging away searching for subs, U.S. subs passively listening, helo’s dropping sonar buoys etc …
I still think the whole story is propaganda for budget reasons. “Team B” stuff to blow up the “threat”.

Posted by: b | Nov 12 2007 9:11 utc | 28

They wouldn’t tell the Chinese if they detected any subs.
China is a weak central government afloat on a sea of bad debt. The US expects (intends to invoke??) a fiscal crisis and is building up pacific rim forces in order to deter any lashing out at the usual spots: Taiwan, Korea and Vietnam.
Pop goes the oil bubble. Contrary to the cw at the Oil Drum etc. demand will fluctuate on the backside of the production curve. This will put domestic pressure on the regimes of the big producers.
The slowdown and fallout from the mortgage market collapse will be the justification for a North American currency union.

Posted by: Q Rating | Nov 12 2007 19:26 utc | 29

Ah, I came to this blog to read an interesting take on the Euro vs. Dollar situation, but what I got was something far different. Reading through much of this leaves one with the impression that it is motivated not by a real desire to inform, but instead seems to be of the typical “European axe to grind” grudgefests.
We shall see where the dollar eventually winds up against the Euro. It may continue to fall, or it may rise once again. What I do know is this: in the end, the relative merits of each currency will be determined as they have always been, by the people of these two “markets”. Given that, my bet is on the American people. They have proven time and time again to be as resilient as any in history.

Posted by: Whomever | Jan 12 2008 16:40 utc | 30

roth ira secured

Posted by: advantages ira roth | Jan 19 2008 16:41 utc | 31

roth ira secured

Posted by: advantages ira roth | Jan 19 2008 16:41 utc | 32