A Poor Excuse For Killing People

October 26, 2007

At the TPM Café M.J. Rosenberg writes about War on Iran in relation to the Dem candidate talkshow next Tuesday. He starts off with this:

Today’s new sanctions on Iran clearly elevate chances that the United States is going to find itself in a war with Iran sooner or later.
…

That’s a sad poor excuse for killing people.

The United States is not just "going to find itself at war" by some mysterious chance.

A war on Iran would be a conscious and willful act by the United States and its people.

Any honest future review of such a war, should it be waged, will find:

It was started based on various nefarious motives, mainly collective greed.
It was in no way an act of ‘self defense’.
It was long announced and semi-secretly waged for several years before its hot phase.
It was discussed extensively beforehand, on all relevant levels and in all U.S. media.
It was ordered by the President of the United States elected by the people of the United States.
It had the expressed approval of a majority of the elected representatives of the people of the United States.
It was supported by the majority of the United States media.
It was supported by the most of the candidates for the next presidential election.
There never was any significant protest by the people of the United States against such a war.
It was an unprovoked illegal war of aggression – the ultimate international crime.
It was a consciously and willful act by the United States and its people.

This crude concept called democracy, of which the U.S. is so proud, is not a one way street. A country attacking another one doesn’t just wake up "finding itself at war". A country, and its people, wage war.

They are responsible for doing so.

Posted by b on October 26, 2007 at 15:50 UTC | Permalink

Comments

It was ordered by the President of the United States elected by the people of the United States
maybe not actually “elected by the people”, but certainly not disputed enough
It was supported by the majority of the United States media
more than supported, the media is being to both facilitate & encourage it
i have a strong feeling, though, that if the empire does attack iran, there will be more than fireworks going off at home

Posted by: b real | Oct 26 2007 16:10 utc | 1

if the empire does attack iran, there will be more than fireworks going off at home
Like parades and flag waiving? The ‘national unity in time of war’ will come into play and that will be it …
The only thing that seems to bothers the U.S. people, present company excepted, seems to be the price of oil. The Washington Post today does a big piece on how war on Iran would effect it. Not a word about people killed, children maimed – only the price of oil is relevant.
Sorry if I sound pissed – I am pissed.

Posted by: b | Oct 26 2007 17:16 utc | 2

So am I. More to the point – so are Russia, China, practically the entire ME apart from Israel, and a goodly slice of Europe and India.

Posted by: Anonymous | Oct 26 2007 17:38 utc | 3

Ooops… last post was from me!

Posted by: parvati_roma | Oct 26 2007 17:39 utc | 4

There never was any significant protest by the people of the United States against such a war.
It was an unprovoked illegal war of aggression – the ultimate international crime.

Do you believe most Americans are ready to accept that?
I’ve talked to a bunch of ’em (obviously not a statistically significant sample, but still) and they cannot get they little conservative heads around America being guilty of war crimes.
That said, you hit one indubitable point– despite having protested and argued against it, and not supporting it in any way shape or form– we’re all guilty. This is supposedly still a “democracy,” so we don’t have the excuse that “the dictator done it!”
Renko

Posted by: Ivan Renko | Oct 26 2007 18:45 utc | 5

Do you believe most Americans are ready to accept that?
Well – the war on Iraq and the war on Iran are “unprovoked illegal war of aggression”. This is certainly obvious by now to everyone who cares to look at it. The Nuremburg Court has labled such supreme international crimes.
Most Americans are certainly not ready to accept that. But that doesn’t change the facts.
When the economic consequences hit them and the personal consequences in form of 100,000s PSTDed soldiers that have cycled through Iraq (Sy Hersh emphazises that) they may eventually look into the mirror.
Not that I expect that to change much. The U.S. didn’t learn from Vietnam. See the Rosenberg statement above for proof. Why should it learn from Iranq?
Then again – there are a lot of good and decent people in the U.S. Maybe they somhow can start to change things.

Posted by: b | Oct 26 2007 19:06 utc | 6

Then again – there are a lot of good and decent people in the U.S. Maybe they somhow can start to change things.
Perhaps…
…if our life savings weren’t all invested in the very corporations that are destroying us.
…if we could give up the illusion that we are still living in a functional democracy where voting for the good guy matters.
…if we weren’t teetering on the edge of the consumer comforts that numb and kill us.

Posted by: catlady | Oct 26 2007 20:46 utc | 7

That’s a great list, Bernhard. Sadly I think it’s unlikely that any future U.S. review will agree even that those were the “facts”.
For a psychological slant on why that might be the case, see the October 22/07 American Conservative Magazine on-line for an article titled “Superpower Trip” by Jim Pittaway.
The author applies insights learned from working with hard-core recidivists in the U.S. prison system to U.S. foreign policy through the ages.
Amusing and alarming both.
I like your blog.

Posted by: peggie | Oct 26 2007 20:53 utc | 8

peggie – thanks for the Superpower Trip – I don’t agree with it, but it’s good food for thought.

Posted by: b | Oct 26 2007 21:17 utc | 9

When the economic consequences hit them and the personal consequences in form of 100,000s PSTDed soldiers that have cycled through Iraq (Sy Hersh emphazises that) they may eventually look into the mirror.

Possibly the economic consequences. Though most wingnuts (and working as an engineer in the Midwest, I know wingnuts!) have convinced themselves that they are not “working people,” they’re “professionals.” When their house values tank and when a lot of them are unemployed, they’ll blame it on the 401B visa’d engineers from China and India… along with, of course, the usual suspects.

But as for the PTSD traumatized veterans, they could give a rat’s ass. it ain’t their sons, it ain’t their daughters, it ain’t their nieces nor nephews– the Yellow Elephants will continue to dance and the families of those vets will be left holding on to whatever they have left.
We shall suffer for the commission of this crime… but I don’t know that the perpetrators and their allies will ever look into the mirror and recognize their own guilty faces.
Renko

Posted by: Ivan Renko | Oct 27 2007 0:03 utc | 10

the murderous swine that we politely call the cheny bush junta will not hesitate one moment from extending their tide of murder. that must be apparrent to all of us who have witnessed the events of our time
if something is fixed – it is this – that they celebrate slaughter – they celebrate the crime of domination – even tho that dominance slips through their hands like water
i imagine the only real reason they are not invading iran is fear. fear
admiral fallon & perhaps some members of the elite fear the descent into a wider chaos than we are living already – tho i imagine cheney rubs himself hard imagining his badboys shedding blood in the streets of tehran
but everything & i mean everything – including of course the false palestinian israel peace conference – point to war
& this war will be deeply deeply horrific. these murdering swine have already resulted in the death of more than 1 million people in iraq. & they have committed that crime without blinking
they resemble the german armies until they found their detiny in moscow, in stalingrad & in kursk. until that point murder was committed with the regularity of breath & it was committed in exactly the same way it is being administered in afghanistan & iraq – that is capital & arms hand in hand walked a people up the bloody path of slaughter until they themselves wer slaughtered. that history is being replayed today & will no doubt extend to pakistan, egypt & it would seem self evident today, iran

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 27 2007 0:45 utc | 11

chris floyd’s last column guest bloggin’ for glenn greenwald @ salon
Chris Floyd for Glenn Greenwald: Dissent or disgrace

Posted by: b real | Oct 27 2007 4:06 utc | 12

A war on Iran would be a conscious and willful act by the United States and its people.

I don’t think that the American people are represented by their elected officials. The personal dissent among them has no chance to come to the surface of their own conscience (too much mind manipulation through decades of ideological propaganda), nor, if it were a conscious dissent, would they be able to influence the truly wilful and conscious acts of their elected officials.
What counts here as a democratic voting process is so flawed that aside from civil unrest and war-like rebellion (mutiny of the military) nothing could change the elite of government representatives, media corporation and its employees or any person working for a corporation, whose financial livelyhood is dependent on supporting government policies.
Civil unrest will break out only, when there is a huge economic crash and depression, followed by a world-wide economic instability, which will enrage the world against the US, which then would be followed by epidemies of diseases and other environmental disasters.
It’s almost as if the American people sense in their guts that they are on the wrong way, don’t know how to get out of it and therefore subconsciously WANT a disaster to happen that will be so destructive that it would break also all that what is wrong with the country today.
The only way they can rebuild from scratch without hesitation is the day everything falls apart and rebuilding is an absolute necessity for survival of every American citizen.
It’s like attempting a suicide by drinking yourself into complete personal destruction.
I think people might just wish to reach the bottom subconsciously as a method to have a new starting point.

Posted by: mimi | Oct 27 2007 4:59 utc | 13

mimi
unfortunately these murderous swine seem to know no bottom & since the corrupted congress allows them to feed like pigs at the public trough & they are scared enough to allow china to finance them – then i think this bottom will keep on going further
this ragtag resistance has already won many decisive victories & it is clear that u s forces lose ground every hour – so perhaps there might be a decisive battle fought & won by the resistance that will give the girls & boys in congress enough reason to leave immediately
as others have pointed out here – they don’t want to leave without their oil though & that remains the most frightening fixed point for the people of iraq but also for the people of america

Posted by: r’giap | Oct 27 2007 16:59 utc | 14

I really like this blog, but I’m going to have to disagree that the people of the U.S. will be responsible for launching a war against Iran. Here’s why:
– By declaring the Qods force a terrorist organization, the Cheney administration and their lawyers will attempt to proclaim that they already have the approval of Congress under the AUMF going as far back as the invasion of Afghanistan. They clearly know that this Congress will not go along with their plans. Their machinations are in direct contradiction with the will of the people.
– Senator James Webb (D-VA) is trying to add an amendment to the defense appropriations bill explicitly stating that the administration cannot launch an attack without the approval of Congress. We American Liberals are fighting hard for this amendment and will continue to do so.
– Although C-Plus Augustus was re-elected in 2004, it was by a very narrow margin. Over 140,000,000 Americans voted AGAINST him.
One of the biggest problems with modern American democracy is that Congress has essentially given up its power to declare war. They issue “authorizations” and essentially negate their own power endowed by the founders of our country. It’s become a tragic state of affairs. Instead of the consent of the people, we have lawyers in the White House Council’s office and other dunderheads in the DOJ determining whether or not Cheney already has the power to go to war. This must change.
Yes, one could argue that our elected leaders launched an illegal war, and therefore the common man is responsible, but I’m not buying it. Our elected Representatives and Senators failed us at a crucial moment. They were cowed by fear, and were sucked in by what amounted to a slick marketing campaign. There’s plenty of blame to go around here in the U.S., but if we’re going to blame any of the American electorate, I’d point to 24% of the population that still give our fucktard president a positive approval rating.
Trust me, the rest of us have had enough. By the way, hopefully we’ll have more and better Dems in office after the 2008 elections.

Posted by: FuzzFinger | Oct 28 2007 2:01 utc | 15

FuzzFinger,
the point is that a great majority of US citizens supported w when he launched the first illegal invasion of Afghanistan. A majority were on board when he launched a second illegal invasion of Iraq. His popularity remained high and his famous “Mission Accomplished” carrier landing was a big hit.
now, a lot of people have buyer’s remorse. that does not make you innocent. I would also take issue with your 140 million voting against w. that is not accurate, you could say that those people did not vote for him and that would be right, however about 100 million couldn’t be bothered to vote at all. what does that tell you? they were ok with it either way. ‘sides that, was Kerry going to order an immediate withdrawal? nope. how many votes did the antiwar candidates get?
if you are a US citizen, as I am, you were probably taught in school that the Germans attacked Poland, France, England and all those other countries in the second world war. no one distinguishes that it was only the National Socialist Party causing all the trouble. we have all seen pictures of hitler giving speeches in squares filled with thousands of enthusiastic supporters. well, we are no different, a great many US citizens supported the invasion and a great deal continue to support the occupation.
suck it up, it is not somebody else’s fault.
we were all living large and not paying attention. some determined bastards were paying attention and took our country away from us. that is what they do. you can blame a snake for being a snake. you can blame yourself for not taking the necessary precautions to protect yourself from that snake.

Posted by: dan of steele | Oct 28 2007 16:34 utc | 16

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