by Rick

R’giap quoting Martin Buber:

"you can only gain power over the nightmare by calling it by its real name"

I agree with this religious scholar and admire his works and writings. Rgiap has quoted him before and I thank him for introducing him to me. And in an attempt to describe this nightmare, it is exactly those words of his above that I am attempting to heed. To many who live here in the US, the name of this nightmare is not ‘America’. Nor is its name ‘Amerika’.

I have often been a stickler for language when it comes to discussing a subject. Over the last couple of years, I have asked readers of Moon of Alabama to consider everything from the meaning of “conservative” to a more basic mathematical question of “What exactly is a ‘billion’ dollars anyway?” I now wish to not only ponder a definition of ‘America’, but more importantly, place some questions of humanism before us.
Again, though least in importance, is this from Wikipedia:

While many in the United States of America generally refer to the country as America and themselves as Americans many people elsewhere in the Americas resent what they perceive as appropriation of the term in this context and, thus, this usage is frequently avoided. In Canada, their southern neighbour is seldom referred to as "America" with "the United States", "the U.S.", or (informally) "the States" used instead. English dictionaries and compendiums differ regarding usage and rendition.

Of course, all readers understand that when writers here at Moon of Alabama use the word ‘America’, they are referring to the people and their government of the United States of America, or the geographical land thereof.

But more importantly, this simple definition, no matter how narrowly or broadly defined, becomes a term possibly worthy of more study. Most Americans do not consider the current US government as representing what America was, is, or should be. To further complicte things, the word America for many has evolved further and further into an idealized concept that never existed. I am one of those who believe in such an idealized concept and realize that such an ideal may never exist. But believe I do, almost religiously; and rightly or wrongly, I try in small ways to move things toward that ideal.

Some may say I am using the nuances of language as an emotional shield or as an attempt to defend an America that doesn’t exist. Many children are not happy to learn there is no Santa Claus, just as grown up children use language to sheild against an emotional shock, or as an evasion of guilt or embarissment.  In the words of a US President, “it all depends on what your meaning of the word ‘is’ is.” But I argue here to quite the contrary.

When I read a posts like Bea’s where she concludes “America is lost.” it saddens me deeply. I may be wrong about Bea, but it appears obvious to me from this simple post that the word ‘America’ means more to her than what any simple definition can describe. It may represent to her an ideal that is, or at least was, something to be cherished and defended. I believe it is important to save this ideal.  And I believe this ideal is not a threat to any nation or individual.

But for one small moment, let us disregard any worry or discussion upon the meaning of the word “America”. Let us disregard for this moment whether or not an idealized America is even worthy of defense or discussion at all. That is, perhaps the very foundations of America or its Constitution is so fatally flawed, either intrinsically or extrinsically, that it is beyond hope. And let us further disregard for this moment any discussion of collective guilt upon its citizens by actions of the U.S government or state actors.

With that, I now ask this question: “Exactly what good is accomplished by insulting Americans by a derogatory uses of the word America? Millions and millions of Americans hold some idealized concept of America, and hold this ideal as dear to their hearts as their souls. One of the founding fathers of America, Benjamin Franklin, became isolated from his son because of Benjamin Franklin’s nurturing of such an ideal and their arguing over philosophical loyalties.

Yet, even the slandering of this ideal is not sufficient for some here. ‘Debs is dead’ writes:

Amerika is the entity which is intended to be the prime beneficiary of the actions of the US govt. By that I mean Amerika the entity, not all amerikans within that entity.

Of course after reading the above, one is still left wondering exactly who or exactly what is this “entity”?  To be fair, later in this same post, ‘Debs is dead’ describes the members of this ‘entity’ called Amerika:

While all US citizens are amerikans (willingly for most, extremely unwillingly for a goodly chunk) not all amerikans are US citizens.

‘Debs is dead’ continues:

Amerika is the name of the set and amerikans are all the human elements of that set.

Well that certainly clears it all up, eh?

I ask Debs is Dead again: “Is it really worthwhile to slander an entire nation’s population in any attempt to end this nightmare?” There are, without a doubt, millions and millions of people here in your “Amerika” who share your disgust. We share the disgust of an empire that has gone beyond decency, we share your digust in an empire that now justifies torture as a means to an end, and we share your disgust in an empire that has caused the deaths of over a million people in just a few short years. We most likely share in your disgust with a majority if not all of your complaints against this un-American government.

But to insult all americans so completely accomplishes exactly what? Are we so stained in sin that we are of no benefit in bringing change? Would violence against such government along with the certain suicide of the perpetrator be the better part of valor? Perhaps emmigration and denouncing citizenship would bring absolution. If so, please send a list of accepted countries worthy of citizenship. I would gather the list to be quite short.

What some are doing here is little different than what ‘Mr. Truth Gets Viscious’ did when he proclaimed a hatred towards all people religious. ‘Mr Truth gets Viscious’ proclaimed a hatred for billions and billions of human beings who had done nothing more wrong than believing different than himself. But perhaps what some posters are doing in disparaging America is far worse. For one thing, America is not a “club”, an “organization” or a “political party” that one can choose or not choose to belong.

According to the basic rights of the UN Charter, no individual should be forced to join any affiliation against their will. Yet some posters here at Moon of Alabama have forced me into this Amerikan prison, this monolith of evil, and truly against my will. But worse yet, as mentioned earlier, these posters are burying an ideal that is as different from what they believe as to what many Americans believed about Iraq. Of course, destroying peoples hopes and dreams by bombs is obvious, while destroying an ideal by words is not.

One must remember, America is a construct of one’s mind, maybe more so than many other nations as it has more connotations, both good or bad. America is a nation, like so many others, born in blood and it how it will end I do not know. And like all nations, it exists only in the eyes of man.

To be more precise, it is little different than the territory marked by a dog lifting his leg. A dog marks his territory to rule as he chooses even if such boundaries are unknown to man. But instead of piss on grass and trees, we humans go one better; we have written paper with ‘defined rules’ by intellectual elites. Almost reminds me of some intellectuals here, but the “Amerikans” that exist in these intellectual minds do better still. We, the enablers of this “Amerikan” evil, have willfully and preemptively killed those who have made no attempt whatsoever to invade our space.

I doubt that few Americans are actually a part of this ‘entity’. Nearly all Americans have been raped by this nightmare in more ways than even the crudest of porn could portray. And this rape of Americans has been happening for many years, with or without ‘Shock and Awe’. Naomi Klein’s new book “The Shock Doctrine’ describes just a few of the many sex toys in a large bag of tricks.

Many of us have been raped without shock or fear at all; indeed most of us have been raped in our sleep. While Americans are busy watching sporting events on television, corporate sponsors are busy behind the scenes with their lobbyist pimps. No electric shock is needed for most of our brains; they are already filled with apathy. I must say, the pimps keep us entertained quite well.

Yet my discussion here is not directed at Americans, why bother anyway, as many have left reading or posting here for the very reasons I put forth. Worse yet, there almost appears to be a subtle point that we “Amerikans” deserve this rape and abuse. We have been born with an “Original Sin” and marked with a “666” on our souls, and with hardened hearts that only a foreign intellectual can judge.

I propose that only a stagnant mind could assume that Americans would be intentionally so self abusive logic does little to ease my worries about any debate regarding America. In fact, I personally feel that thinking in binary terms of Logic and Set Theory in describing “Amerika” is below that of the living, yes below that of my dog. All hail the mighty “Nand Gate” philosophy where all of reason can be construed by merely the use of two distinct operations of logic! Of course ‘Mr. Truth Gets Vicious’ has informed us that only in recent history have humans been able to grasp Boolean Logic. I would have argued that such principles of “and”, “or” and “not” are kindergarten level but dead Debs has unfortunately proved me wrong.

Perhaps it is beyond my understanding; but I for one, would put my money on a living dog instead of a stagnant mind and sheer logic. If I misunderstand posters through my religious prejudices, my egotism, my nationalism, my lack of ability to perceive the world, or even my ignorance in logic/set theory, be assured that there are millions of idiots like myself that are insulted also.

But enough of this collective guilt, and of this moment of divisiveness posing as debate. I have no guilt in working to achieve an ideal America, an America that closely resembles the ideals that my founding fathers had envisioned. Such is the America that exists in my heart and mind and it is not a fool’s dream. There is a range from similar to wholly different ideals held in many minds throughout the world. In doing so, I find no need to insult anyone merely by their national association, or approach those who are powerless and silent with hate or insults. Again, what I sometimes percieve here at Moon of Alabama is an attempt to blame the victims along with the deviants while burying an ideal. If one does not agree with that ideal that is fine. But in some real way, America as a nation did progress where things were once better than they were today. 

Surely not all shared in the wealth, but progress was being made. This is not ‘kool aid’ talk either, for I remember my younger days when the US Middle Class was large and growing. Marginalized minorities were gaining discretionary income. That is not the case today. How and why the citizens became so asleep I don’t know for sure. Clearly entertainment and materialsim has become a disease of epic proportions, while interest in arts and education are very lacking. And the situation appears to become worse with each new generation. This has been the greatest detriment to improving the political situation.

”The real struggle is not between East and West, or capitalism and communism, but between education and propaganda.” – Martin Buber

Finally, for anyone to suggest that millions of people in your “Amerika” have little or no regard for others lives, especially those of other nationalities, is more than insulting. Through my culture and religious beliefs, I recognize clearly the genocide that is taking place in Iraq. I regret now that I have not finished my writing concerning religion. Just as I was insulted by the actions of US leaders and US soldiers who had no regard for the personal beliefs of “their” Muslim prisoners, I am equally insulted for not only myself, but for the countless Americans who have played no part in the Iraqi conflict, but yet are deemed willful benefactors in an Iraqi genocide. 

Though others will disagree, I assure everyone, there never was, and never will be any benefit to America or to a single true American in this Iraq War. The greatest costs have yet to be felt for everyone, although considering what the Iraqi people have already endured, it is beyond my imagination how the metaphysical universe can still hold in reserve so much anquish. I pray that the Iraq nightmare can be halted. Even now my disgust grows without limits – from the actions of Blackwater and other private mercenaries, to the actions of US prison guards who had so little respect for those of Muslim belief, alas, these US soldiers actually used the prisoner’s religious beliefs as weapons against them. All this at the behest of those located in Washington DC.

America’s political leaders are nothing more than wolves in sheep’s clothing. They have soiled the very same International agreements that they helped write and have spit upon the US Constitution they swore to protect. I freely choose not to call these US citizens ‘Americans’ for what they do is truly un-American in a very real sense of the word. Americans are against this war, they are against their US government and many of us “Americans” are fighting a non-violent war against this current government that most would say we are incapable of fighting. We long for America, but right now, it can’t be found.

Man is no longer able to master the world which he himself brought about: it is becoming stronger than he is, it is winning free of him, it confronts him in an almost elemental independence, and he no longer knows the word which could subdue and render harmless the golem he has created … Man faced the terrible fact that he was the father of demons whose master he could not become. – Martin Buber

I post this lenghty discussion not to insult but because I care. Like the beauty of our physical world which is so mathematically irrational and impossible to quantify, I see so much beauty here at Moon of Alabama. On this very thread, the beauty of rgiaps humanism shines through like a rainbow after a storm.

almost my entire argument against my friend slothrup was based on his refusal to understand that the empire that is controlling & destroying this world has its capital in Washington
the other aspect of my argument against him was essentially – the people were always missing, absent, had disappeared … it seemed only americans appeared

I agree 100% with rgiap’s post above, even more than he may realize. The US government has turned into a cancer that has inflicted the whole world. I would only add that, like a disease, removing the most obvious mass of cancer or removing the cancer from where it originated does not always lead to cure. Although only an acedemic point, one could argue that the seeds of this cancer were already forming long before the US existed. 

The East India Trade Company of England was merchandising slaves and dope on a worldwide scale; perhaps this was already the first ominous sign of this world cancer. Of course the most deadly puppet strings are certainly being pulled from Washington DC. But I repeat, this cancer is pervasive.

The second part of rgiap’s post reveals not only great intellect, but more important, his heart.  Regarding my work (still a draft) on religion, I use rgiap’s same point from an earlier post as almost a central theme. Below is a quick cut and paste from this work in process.

Attitude and intolerance are difficult qualities to describe by simple writing, so I have struggled with some examples of attitudes perceived from past posts.  Most importantly though, I think various societies have been great because of their culture, and religion has been a basic, and very positive, ingredient of any great culture.  The history of China is maybe a good example but probably more complicated and the least familiar…
[snip]
Iraq is maybe the clearest example for most of us, so I will reference that, especially emphasizing the heroic efforts of the Iraqi Resistance to the current occupation.  Iraq, the cradle of civilization, is now turning to rubble and the once proud Iraqi people are witnessing death and destruction on an unprecedented scale.  They are seeing their great culture destroyed even as I write.  I cringe every time I hear about a mosque being destroyed. Not just for the beauty of the architecture, so much more beautiful than the modern, ugly, square buildings of the West.  Each mosque is more than just a religious place of worship; each is (or ‘was’) a part of Iraqi art and culture.  Iraqis have died, their private and public property has been destroyed (or stolen) and all for what?  The “Social Darwinists” in the West contrast so sharply to the Iraqi people.  To believe that spirituality does not play a role in the Iraqi Resistance is to intimidate logic itself.
[snip]

One does not need to read Chomsky, read Moon of Alabama, or any other media “expert” to understand or critique what is happening in Iraq. In this respect, again I wish to commend and quote remembering rgiap where he replied in a heated debate with Slothrup regarding the situation in Iraq:

but again & again what is the most worrying for me – is that in the style of a murdochian mendiant – the iraqi people & their loss & suffering – are nowhere to be seen – in the so-called ‘facts’ that he [Slothrup] brings

It is rgiap’s concern for humanity that wins the argument in my book. Logic alone will never suffice when discussing such subjects. On that note, Bea is also one where her concern for humanity is a power that reaches far beyond her words. It is evident in every one of Bea’s posts.

Most people of the world are looking for change. They are not seeking tyranny from dictatorships, corporatism, or the tyranny from a democracy where rights and freedoms are not protected. Respect towards each individual in society will always be an important part of this quest. To disrespect the individuals of an entire nation because they have done nothing more wrong but to live under an ‘out of control’ government is more than sad. 

I have no doubt that many who arrive here at Moon of Alabama are quickly put off after reading some posts.  ‘Mr. Truth Gets Viscous’ openly proclaims his hatred for all religious people. On another thread, Parvis and Cat Lady have a discussion stating that all religious people living with today’s technology are as dangerous as “psychopaths with chainsaws”. In that thread, readers were treated to such profound questions as: “Is it religion that causes Psychopaths or is it that Psychopaths are drawn to religion?”

Perhaps dead Debs can use some Binary Logic and Set Theory to sort out their questions. Even more stunning is to find Parvis conclude that all organized religion should be outlawed because religious people are as dangerous as nuclear bombs. And then logic easily enables Bernhard and others to conclude that the only way to stop the Iraq War quickly is to have higher body counts of American soldiers. After all, a million dead Iraqis don’t seem to bother most Americans. So with the simple tools of mathematics, a delight with every American’s death is proclaimed. The effects of Agent Orange from so many years ago are still claiming both American and Vietnamese lives every day. Where and with what co-efficient do we place such statistics into our calculations?

Most likely none of Moon of Alabama posters intend to offend anyone (myself excluded of course), yet what is the mathematical set of people offended from these numerous subsets of insults? Quite frankly, I don’t know. But I do know that each of us can be more effective by a little more care in our common strive for change. 

Ironically, we may often offend and turn away the very people who can help us the most. Unfortunately for readers at Moon of Alabama, you loose with me on both counts: I am still here and I don’t know how best to bring change. And I am a common offender when it comes to insults.

However, if knowledge is to be gained, I will take an insult any day of the week rather than silence. I welcome and learn from all the posters here, those who I have just insulted and those who insult me. I even miss reading Slothrup’s posts lately. But cooperation and success is easier achieved with praise than with insults. If praise is too difficult, than let us move forward with tolerance. If tolerance is too difficult, insults will do little. And religion and logic should be everyone’s friend, and never be used simply as tools to dominate or divide.