Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 28, 2007
Turkey’s Muslim President

Some stupid headlines:

AFP: Turkey elects ex-Islamist as president

The Turkish parliament on Tuesday elected Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul as president, making him the secular republic’s first head of state with an Islamist past.

Reuters: Ex-Islamist Gul elected Turkey’s president

There is nothing "ex-" with Gül’s believes. He is just as "islamist" (what does that mean by the way?) as he has ever been. He didn’t stop praying and visiting the mosque.

The predessor of Gül’s current AKP party, the Welfare Party, did win the elections in 1996 against a rightwing, militaristic and corrupt coalition. A year later it was pressed out of the government by the Turkish military for alleged attempts to endanger the secular state. In 1998 it was forbidden which led to the foundation of the AKP which officially puts a little less emphasis on religion.

The political spectrum in Turkey is pretty rightwing. Within that spectrum the AKP is on the left. (There are parties further left, but without much chance to play a role at all.) The Turkish military is traditionally far right and is supported by and supports the big industrialists.

The AKP’s economic-social position is working against those
interests and towards the interests of the less wealthy. It achieved to
stop the endemic hyperinflation that plagued Turkey for three decades
and it launched some good programs for the rural peasants and urban
poor.

When the ruling AKP first tried to elect Gül for president, the
military threatend to intervene and to lauch a coup. This time the AKP
answered pretty smart. It called for new elections and instead of the
34% of votes it had before the election, it now gained 45% of all
votes.

The Turkish military yesterday again issued dark threats against Gül’s
election. But it will be much harder to do something against Gül and
the AKP now with their public support clearly evident.

The whole "islamist" stuff was played up as a boogieman by the right
wing and the military. Instead of looking at the political-economical
record, the western news agancies followed those soundbites. Now that a
NATO member and EU aspirant with a muslim population finally has a
practicing muslim president, they stumble over themselves to explain
that he is "ex-islamist".

He isn’t and it doesn’t matter at all. Politics in Turkey, like
about everywhere, are overwhelmingly defined by left- or right-wing
economic policies, not by religiousness.

Congrats to Gül. Congrats to the Turkish people.

Comments

(what does that mean by the way?
wiki islamist

This article needs additional references or sources for verification.
Please help to improve this article by adding reliable references.
Unverifiable material may be challenged and removed.
This article has been tagged since July 2007
This usage is controversial. Those labeled Islamists often, if not always, oppose use of the term, maintaining they are simply Muslims, and that their beliefs are a straightforward expression of Islam as a way of life. Some people find it troublesome that a word derived from “Islam” is applied to organisations they consider radical and extreme.

The term “Islamism” first appeared in eighteenth-century France as a synonym for “Islam”. At the turn of the twentieth century, it was being displaced by the latter, and by 1938, when Orientalist scholars completed the Encyclopaedia of Islam, had virtually disappeared from the English language
It attained its modern connotation in late 1970s French academia, thence to be loaned into English again, where it has largely displaced “Islamic fundamentalism” as the preferred term.,

daniel pipes helps us understand
Distinguishing between Islam and Islamism

why doesn’t wiki have a link for christianistas?

Posted by: annie | Aug 28 2007 19:12 utc | 1

Fortunately, Christian Theocrats still make up only a small part of the religious and political spectrum, whereas Islamism is on the rise.
Our Western view of religion is a personal matter, one is free to practice one’s beliefs to the extent that they do not violate national law. Under Islamism, the Sharia is the law.
And whereas civil law is clearly seen as the product of human action, subject to revision and change according to conditions, the Sharia, and the Koran on which it is based, are seen as a revealed truth, subject to various interpretations, but in essence unchanging and inviolable.
And except for a few Christian fundamentalists, most Westerners have long since looked on the Bible as the work of human hands, perhaps divinely inspired, but nonetheless to be seen has having been created in a definite historical, social and political context.
This view is generally lacking in Islam: the Koran is still broadly regarded as the Revealed Word of Allah, and even the paper and ink used to write it down are held sacred.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Aug 28 2007 19:34 utc | 2

Annie: Try Wiki on dominionism or Dominion Theology
Here’s an article comparing traditional Xtianity with Dominionism.
Dominionists, like Islamists, are not mainstream, and even the DOD figured out recently that sending the “Left Behind: Eternal Forces” video game to the troops in Iraq was a Bad Idea.

Posted by: catlady | Aug 28 2007 19:49 utc | 3

@ralphieboy
Fortunately, Christian Theocrats still make up only a small part of the religious and political spectrum, whereas Islamism is on the rise.

In the U.S., only 14 percent of adults thought that evolution was “definitely true,” while about a third firmly rejected the idea.

National Geographic
Our Western view of religion is a personal matter, one is free to practice one’s beliefs to the extent that they do not violate national law. Under Islamism, the Sharia is the law.

There is tremendous variance in the interpretation and implementation of Islamic law in Muslim societies today. Liberal movements within Islam have questioned the relevance and applicability of sharia from a variety of perspectives; Islamic feminism brings multiple points of view to the discussion. Several of the countries with the largest Muslim populations, including Indonesia, Bangladesh and Pakistan, have largely secular constitutions and laws, with only a few Islamic provisions in family law. Turkey has a constitution that is officially strongly secular. India is the only country in the world which has separate Muslim civil laws, framed by Muslim Personal Law board, and wholly based on Sharia.
Most countries of the Middle East and North Africa maintain a dual system of secular courts and religious courts, in which the religious courts mainly regulate marriage and inheritance.

Contemporary practice of Sharia law
And whereas civil law is clearly seen as the product of human action, subject to revision and change according to conditions, the Sharia, and the Koran on which it is based, are seen as a revealed truth, subject to various interpretations, but in essence unchanging and inviolable.

As there are no hierarchies or clergy in Islam, consensus, ijma’, is required to apply the law layed down in quran, hadith and as interpreted through ijtihad or qiyas. A group of people expresses ijma’ simply by following a specific scholar’s or school-of-law’s interpretation.

On Variations of Islamic Law
And except for a few Christian fundamentalists, most Westerners have long since looked on the Bible as the work of human hands, perhaps divinely inspired, but nonetheless to be seen has having been created in a definite historical, social and political context.
see evolution link above
This view is generally lacking in Islam: the Koran is still broadly regarded as the Revealed Word of Allah, and even the paper and ink used to write it down are held sacred.
I just searched for pictures of christians shitting on the new testament – why didn’t I find any? hmm … something lacking in christianity?

projection (or projection bias) is a defense mechanism in which one attributes to others one’s own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts or/and emotions. Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses/desires without letting the ego recognize them.

Psychological projection

Posted by: b | Aug 28 2007 20:17 utc | 4

Our Western view of religion is a personal matter, one is free to practice one’s beliefs to the extent that they do not violate national law.
apparently you missed the news bush installed a graduate of pat robertsons law school to hire new recruits into our justice department. the tenants of the law school take an oath which is embolden in print to bring the law of the land under christian model. (this came out in the oversite hearings, i believe ms doritas or whatever her name was)
i think you underestimate how many follwers of this tim lahee character and the popularity of the left behind series. time magazine just had that cover story on why the bible should be required reading in our elementary schools. there is also that patrick henry school that produces law clerks for the supreme court.
catlady. dominionist doesn’t quite pack the same punch as islamists. for one thing it doesn’t contain the word christ, christian or christianity. christianistas on the other hand does. it mocks something sacred, as islamists does to the meaning of islam. is you google islamists you will see tons of racist websites and explanations. this term demeans the word islam and muslims. dominionists chose their own name and do not consider it an insult.

Posted by: annie | Aug 28 2007 20:38 utc | 5

Annie, I see your point about who chooses the label. Politicized fundamentalists of any stripe make me nervous. I managed to spend a significant amount of time this afternoon reading about Dominionism and Reconstructionism and kinism, etc.

Posted by: catlady | Aug 28 2007 21:44 utc | 6

Nice response, b.
@ralphieboy:
Sephardic Jews had been living fairly peacefully in Muslim countries for centuries millenia. The major impetus for exodus came from Israel, after it was established, and was actively seeking bodies to replace the Palestinians who had been evicted under conditions of terror. There is still a Jewish community in Tehran, as there was in Baghdad until the war, and problems mostly arise from Israeli meddling, and/or spying. My father was, for several years, a member of a synagogue on Long Island started by Iraqi Jewish emigrees. I do not recall them complaining about Sharia law. The war with Iran, maybe. Lack of opportunity during sanctions, definitely. So who is really to blame?
My belief is that religious tension is largely fanned by the elite for their own purposes. Fundamentalist religious belief generally grows during times of threat, stress, rapid change, extreme propagandizing, and shrinks during more stable times.
Yugoslavia was doing fine until the west saw fit to blow it, and its publicly owned industries and services, apart. I think the case of the Nazis, but also the way the Germans (over 11K interned) and Japanese were treated in the US during WWII proves that the elite can demonize any group if they want to. After all, Germans composed the second largest ethnic population in the US.

Posted by: Malooga | Aug 28 2007 21:54 utc | 7

I do not see the AKP as any stranger then the Christian Democratic parties (common in Europe). Not saying I would vote for either, but them motivating their political platform from religious beliefs does not necessarily make them the same as the Taleban or Dominionists or other fundamentalists.

My belief is that religious tension is largely fanned by the elite for their own purposes.

Amen to that 🙂

Posted by: a swedish kind of death | Aug 28 2007 22:42 utc | 8

b#4, about that first link.
In the U.S., only 14 percent of adults thought that evolution was “definitely true,” while about a third firmly rejected the idea.
the graphic accompanying the survey doesn’t reflect that. this is because there were 5 optional choices, not 3. the choices being definitely false, probably false, unsure, probably true, definitely true. it appears on the graph that both pro and con are @40%, 20% being unsure. it just so happens the anti evolution crowd are definitely rejecting the idea. of the 40% that believe evolution is true, the majority think it is ‘probably true’. i would have answered probably true. that is because while i believe it is true, i will accept that we may find out in the future, aspects of darwins theory are flawed or incomplete. that doesn’t mean i think it will lead to a creationist theory.
maybe people who believe in science are more prone to accept scientific theory will provide more clarity in the future, where as religious people have more certainty they ‘know’ the way. in the US anyway.

Posted by: annie | Aug 28 2007 23:06 utc | 9

Still, annie, that means that about 50% of the country are complete ravers who believe that some guy with a beard created this whole thing some 5-6,000 years ago, and that Eve came out of Adam’s rib, and every other nutter story in the Bible! What’s the point of schooling anyway? Send them off on crusade to be suicide bombers when they are 12 if that’s what they believe. (Sorry for the sarcasm, I’m having a rough day.)
@askod,
I never did complement you on your great post and important work! I have discussed your ideas here with older green party members who can no longer see past their own noses, and I think they are great and the concept carries well over the great green Atlantic.

Posted by: Malooga | Aug 28 2007 23:42 utc | 10

oh i know malooga, according to the report, it is a third of the country, not 1/2. no sense veiwing it worse than it is.

Posted by: annie | Aug 29 2007 0:12 utc | 11

Expect a military take over soon. The military leadership is very secular and insists on the same in the civilian government. They’ve done it before, they just made a subtle threat last week, and they won’t hesitate to do it again.

Posted by: mikefromtexas | Aug 29 2007 0:24 utc | 12

they just made a subtle threat last week
got a link for that.

Posted by: annie | Aug 29 2007 0:48 utc | 13

@13 – Turkish military warns secularism under attack

On the eve of a devout Muslim’s expected accession to the country’s presidency, Turkey’s resolutely secular military leadership issued a sharp warning yesterday against any attempt to erode the constitutional separation of religion and state. …

Posted by: b | Aug 29 2007 3:50 utc | 14

lol! b, i thought he was referring to OUR military!

Posted by: annie | Aug 29 2007 4:00 utc | 15

b, annie, malooga,
I just wanted to make the case that there is a big difference between Islam and Islamism. Some Islamophobes continue to argue that the difference is so small as to be irrelevant, and that any Muslim who does not beat his wife and kill infidels is obviously not a “true Muslim”, because that’s what Muhammed would do.
They then go on to argue that any Christian who kills in God’s name is *not* a “true Christian” because that’s not what Jesus would do.
I am not about to dictate to anyone how to interpret or to live their Holy Scriptures, but I do demand that they live within the law and respect others’ rights to do the same. And Sharia, where it is practiced, is simply not compatible with western concepts of law.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Aug 29 2007 5:44 utc | 16

Western concepts of law are getting pretty perverted nowadays.
Where does it say in the Bible that thou shall surveille thy entire population, only disappearing those most troublesome?
I would not lay down my life in defense of western jurisprudence.

Posted by: Malooga | Aug 29 2007 14:07 utc | 17

Malooga,
give the West a break, we don’t go stoning adulteresses or homosexuals; at most, we fine them for soliciting in public restrooms.
But the religious right did experience a period of ascendancy under Bush. They learned the lesson from Ronald Reagan, who was happy to pay lip service to them to gain their support, but tossed them and their agenda aside as soon as Nancy’s personal astrologer told her it was propitious to do so.
After that, the evangelical Christians started working their way inside the system, getting their people in key positions in government where they could influence or even determine policy.
And unfortunately, they are going to remain clinging to the plumbing even if the Republican get flushed out of office.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Aug 29 2007 15:21 utc | 18

Zyprexa.

Zyprexa contraindications. How zyprexa works. Zyprexa class action law. Zyprexa. Drug zyprexa.

Posted by: Zyprexa individual lawsuits. | Jan 26 2010 8:59 utc | 19

Topamax warnings.

Does topamax cause depression. Topamax for biopolar disorder. How long for topamax to take effect. Topamax. Side effects of topamax. Psychopharmacology topamax treatment migraines.

Posted by: Topamax for biopolar disorder. | Feb 6 2010 17:41 utc | 20

Topamax.

Topamax. Side effects of the drug topamax. Topamax off label uses. Topamax and weight. Topamax weight loss.

Posted by: Topamax when will it help my binging. | Feb 7 2010 0:05 utc | 21