Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 17, 2007
No Time for Choice on a Iraq Retreat

Josh Marshall of TPM hase some thoughts on the U.S. retreat in Iraq [emph added]:

Perpetuating the slow-motion disaster that is the status quo is necessary to sustain our denial.
[…]
I know there are many people who are for immediate withdrawal. No delays. Out in a matter of months. But I don’t think that’s a majority position even among those who are strongly against the war. That is because the situation is so bad and so unpredictable that it is hard to make categorical decisions before we’ve even got the practice started. Speaking only for myself but I suspect speaking for many others as well, the key is that we start the process. The key is that we make a category decision that the US occupation of Iraq is more the problem than the solution.

Somehow Josh, like the majority, seems to be still in denial. There is no unpredictability, ‘start of the process’ and then slowgoing before making categorical decisions. It’s in or out NOW.

There are some 160,000 U.S. soldiers and a whole bunch of mercenaries keeping this war going. All current part-withdrawl calls from the Democratic as well as the Republican side are aiming for some ‘reduction of combat forces’ – not for real total retreat. They all are bullshit.

One may be able to reduce troops in Iraq now from 160,000 back to 130,000 without much strategic change by stopping to interfere with the ongoing ethnic clensing at the local level of this or that Iraqi province. But below that count, it will get continuously harder to keep up any base in Iraq. There is a long and endangered supply line that feeds these bases and it needs 24/7 coverage by lots of combat forces to stay open.

Below 130,000 troops in the country, or maybe below 110,000 – the exact point is debatable – the overall position is untenable. The number of troops needed to secure the replenishment of resident troops will succeed these manifold. There comes a point where one needs a brigade of combat roops or two or three to allow for delivery of a single sheet of toilet paper, or a gallon of water, for one platoon outpost somewhere in the Anbar desert.

Any call for retreat of all combat forces while at the same time pretending to hold on to some superbases that do need supply delivered by ground traffic is illusionary. An ‘endgame‘ with just one big base in the Kurdish northern Iraq is equally lunatic as this sets up the U.S. as a Kurdish backup force against Turkey on which roads the U.S. supplies for that base would depend.

It’s all or nothing. Nothing is certainly a bad option for the Washington cocktail party consent, but it’s the best option available.

General Pace is preparing the public for a troop increase. But with the current recruiting problems and rank attrition there is no hope that any meaningful increase can be sustained long enough to gain anything. Indeed any increase would only be possible by increasing deployment time. The original schedule at the start of the war was one year of deployment and two at home. The new one would be 18 months combat and less than 12 months home with the next deployment already marked on the calendar. Only psychopath will sign that contract line.

Starting the retreat process now, as Josh recommends, without recognizing the inevitable fast flight under fire that will immediately and inevitably follow, is still denial.

The situation is NOT unpredictable. For the U.S. there is only a binary decision left. Get out now and do so fast, or prolong the stay and pay an very, very high material and human price.

All the base equipment, wide LCD TV’s and air conditioners or whatever was supplied by ten-thousands of trucks during the last years will be not be recoverable anyway.  Every convoy leaving the country will be attacked  more furiously than any convoy coming in today.

This is inevitable. There is no categorical decision to be avoided anymore. It’s now and bad or later and worse. Get a grip on that and tell the people.

Comments

I think you are being overly harsh on JM here b, he’s just thinking of the logistics of moving 150k troops, 250k contractors, billions of materiel etc., out. Now is only the option when the Shia/JAM say enough is enough. But that day is coming.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 17 2007 21:33 utc | 1

now it may be that I’m down with a flu and fuzzy headed but I could not make heads or tails of JM’s position …start but don’t rush? recognize the mistake of Iraq but don’t recognize that the Iraqi people will no more be waving flags and tossing flowers than they were upon the arrival of US invaders?
as I said… it may just be my fuzzy head

Posted by: Siun | Jul 17 2007 21:51 utc | 2

Well the trouble with giving the likes of Marshall the benefit of the doubt on this is his words will be used by those who haven’t relinquished their desire to ‘own’ Iraq and it’s resources to justify stalling in the hope that something may change and enable the original theft to go ahead.
Amerika and Co got into the joint in the space of a few weeks so they can get out the same way. No need to destroy any of their equipment they will have to leave behind as it can be a tiny deposit on the reparations that must be paid once Iraq achieves a measure of stability.
Not the stability that the rethuglocrats want, ie a sympathetic administration – the stability that the Iraqis want, ie relatively safe to walk the streets again and a feeling that as bad as things may be politically, with time and no outside interference (of either the propping up or pulling down sort) Iraqis may go back to working towards the state they were aiming at before the whitefellas laid seige to their nation.
It is true that no one knows the depth of the sectarian divide, but given that it was practically non-existant before Bremer softened them up and Negroponte stirred them up, they may get over it quite quickly. The ibn-Saud crooks must be kept outta Iraq at all costs as they have always depended on Shia oppression to maintain control and an Arabic state with Shia leadership right next door will have them anxious and wanting to interfere.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Jul 17 2007 21:53 utc | 3

but given that it was practically non-existant before Bremer
this is not true in any history i’ve read. and yet this unsupported claim repeated by many here is the foundation of every demand for the US to leave. based on what we do know about the collapse of iraq is that it will be much, much worse than now. there is no respectable account of the war i know of contradicting this certainty.
because of the facts of the present situation, marshall is correct.
no way the US can leave. no fucking way.

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 18 2007 0:47 utc | 4

Slothrup:
Speaking of Marshall, if I recall, he was sent to China after WWII ended way too early, when the Kumintang “legal” Chinese government was still allied with the Soviet Socialists against the Maoist Communists over rich mineral lands of Manchuria, across a China still divided into 4ths, and a year from peace.
Rather a lot like Iraq today.
He had a grand plan for successful intermediary negotiation before US disengagement. Recall just how successful that was.
Moa kicked their ass, then millions died the next four years,
as China retrograded back to the Pre-Industrial Age.
Gradual redeployment my ass. Our current crop of high school grads will be rotated into the slaughter, and the fifth tour burnouts rotated back to CONUS to SWAT down Sub-P homeless.
Two of our neighbor kids shipped out last night. Now they’re
looking for a marine returnee who slaughtered his wife. You
have no idea what 120,000 fifth-tour psychos returning to the US recession is like, unless you’ve worked with the Nam vets.
Get over it. Bush screwed the pooch. Now millions will die, and we’ll be paying over $100 a barrel by election day 2008,
by which time Cheney will be personally worth $1B dollars,
and DoD/DHS will still be the richest Corps on earth.
Hey, we’re all going to, “feel their pain” on this one, baby!

Posted by: Shalom Guzman | Jul 18 2007 2:05 utc | 5

based on what we do know about the collapse of iraq is that it will be much, much worse than now.
You’ll say this, slothrop, until there is nothing left but one vast uninhabitable radioactive wasteland. We’ve already killed/evicted 20% of the population and probably wounded/psychologically destroyed another 20%. Meanwhile, every day the US troops go out and kill and arrest another thousand or so, while bombs and planes take care of another thousand.
How many thousand tons of depleted uranium have we aerosolized over the sands of Mesopotamia? I wish that I could transport you over there, so you could appreciate the consequences of your madness firsthand.
We’re not exactly teaching kids how to play soccer, or whatever it is you think our soldiers are doing, by being there. But I guess you delight in the killing as a “lesser evil,” sort of the way Madeline Albright might: “It is a steep price, but, in the end, it is worth it.”
No, I do not feel that good
When I see the heartbreaks you embrace
If I was a master thief
Perhaps I’d rob them
And now I know you’re dissatisfied
With your position and your place
Don’t you understand
It’s not my problem
I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes
And just for that one moment
I could be you
Yes, I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes
You’d know what a drag it is
To see you

Posted by: Bob M. | Jul 18 2007 2:45 utc | 6

US out of iraq. regardless what i want, bob, the fact is withdrawal will not mitigate the violence. denial of this fact is madness, bob.

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 18 2007 3:03 utc | 7

…and DoD/DHS will still be the richest Corps on earth.
The Pentagon as Global Landlord

Posted by: Bea | Jul 18 2007 3:25 utc | 8

We need to hurry and decide on a timeline. Jr. is talking about God again: http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/17/brooks-plays-follow-the-leader/

Posted by: Mart | Jul 18 2007 3:29 utc | 9

withdrawal will not mitigate the violence.
Why can you not get it through your head that much of the violence is instigated by the presence of an extraordinarily ruthless and violent occupation army in the heart of a country that is not their own? Is your view of Iraqis so thoroughly penetrated by the image of “violent hajjis” that you cannot grasp this one very simple fact? Have you ever lived under occupation, slothrop? do you have even the ability to place yourself into the mindset of someone who is asphyxiatingly entrapped in its suffocating grasp? do you not allow the iraqis even that sliver of humanity, to acknowledge that their rage is the only rational response under the circumstances to which they have been forcibly subjected? If you do, then you MUST allow that the removal of these oppressive circumstances will reduce the level of violence.

Posted by: Bea | Jul 18 2007 3:32 utc | 10

Debs is dead @3
“It is true that no one knows the depth of the sectarian divide, but given that it was practically non-existant before Bremer softened them up and Negroponte stirred them up, they may get over it quite quickly.”
I recall Riverbend once writing that pre-2003, it was considered impolite in Iraq to identify one-self as Sunni or Shia. Hence I think you are right.
and we know pretty much all Iraqi’s (except the Kurds) want the USA out. Maybe they are just too “dumb” to appreciate how badly the Americans wants to “help” them and how much the USA “cares” for them. But I do’nt think thats the case.
the USA has a higher collective sense of exceptionalism than perhaps any other nation in history. The rest of the world accepts it and even admires the USA for it (quite often). And having concluded that oil is the reason the USA is in Iraq, the world is watching to see just how far America’s acute sense of excepionalism will drive it beyond the pale of decency (as they see it).

Posted by: jony_b_cool | Jul 18 2007 3:47 utc | 11

Knowing that we cannot possibly ‘win this thing’ by force of arms is something that has long since penetrated both the military and political echelons leading us onward.
That this realization has never slowed them down at all offers the clearest possible indication that ‘winning this thing’ neither was, nor is, nor shall be a fundamental goal.
A stable, democratic Iraq. Pigs flying. Snowballs in hell. These are all on the short list of our primary goals Over There.
What America needs out of this thing is a highly compliant Middle East, a coterie of colonial states selling oil through and to our major oil companies. This will keep the majority of nation states using dollars to buy their petroleum, which will keep the American economy in the wonderful state of unjustified buoyancy that the ability to print limitless amounts of funny money allows.
The road to a highly compliant Middle East? Well, it lies through Persia. The Saudis want Iran taken off the regional stage, and so does Israel. The oil-producing nations surrounding Iraq and Iran are US-friendly governments (if not populations), and want to live out their oil-producing years without having the Persians upsetting OPEC and other apple carts.
Everybody wants us to do it.
America cannot leave Iraq. And cannot leave Iran standing. To do so would bring the most astonishing reduction and retraction of a major economy seen in this world since the Soviet Union let all their cups and saucers fall where they may.
America’s political and economic elites feel their backs up against the wall — it’s either forward to Tehran, and suzerainty over the sands of Persia,
or . . .
Americans building windmills everywhere or sumpin’ . . .
The horror . . . the horror . . .

Posted by: Antifa | Jul 18 2007 4:22 utc | 12

believe me, bea, i share your indignation. i do not find support, as a set of facts, the dominant view here that occupation caused this catastrophe. occupation made things worse. but, the historical record does not support the general view here that occupation is the provenance of every evil in iraq. the situation is far more fucked up than the usual “leftist” reduction (read: “american empire”).

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 18 2007 4:25 utc | 13

No one but the Iraqis can mitigate or end the violence in their country; but in order to do this they need to have the occupation force leave. Their leader Maliki has said that America is now free to withdraw those troops whenever it wants. This is as polite an invitation as possible for the US to leave. What slothrop can’t seem to bear is the reality of the US defeat, not to mention the magnitude of the defeat, not to mention the ignominious moral dimension of the defeat. The tail between our legs. Our crestfallen nation. The whole shitfaced spectacle. All those deaths in vain.

Posted by: Copeland | Jul 18 2007 4:29 utc | 14

Knowing that we cannot possibly ‘win this thing’ by force of arms is something that has long since penetrated both the military and political echelons leading us onward.
That this realization has never slowed them down at all offers the clearest possible indication that ‘winning this thing’ neither was, nor is, nor shall be a fundamental goal.
A stable, democratic Iraq. Pigs flying. Snowballs in hell. These are all on the short list of our primary goals Over There.
What America needs out of this thing is a highly compliant Middle East, a coterie of colonial states selling oil through and to our major oil companies. This will keep the majority of nation states using dollars to buy their petroleum, which will keep the American economy in the wonderful state of unjustified buoyancy that the ability to print limitless amounts of funny money allows.
The road to a highly compliant Middle East? Well, it lies through Persia. The Saudis want Iran taken off the regional stage, and so does Israel. The oil-producing nations surrounding Iraq and Iran are US-friendly governments (if not populations), and want to live out their oil-producing years without having the Persians upsetting OPEC and other apple carts.
Everybody wants us to do it.
America cannot leave Iraq. And cannot leave Iran standing. To do so would bring the most astonishing reduction and retraction of a major economy seen in this world since the Soviet Union let all their cups and saucers fall where they may.
America’s political and economic elites feel their backs up against the wall — it’s either forward to Tehran, and suzerainty over the sands of Persia,
or . . .
Americans building windmills everywhere or sumpin’ . . .
The horror . . . the horror . . .

Posted by: Antifa | Jul 18 2007 4:31 utc | 15

No one but the Iraqis can mitigate or end the violence in their country
search as you might, you will not find support for this claim.

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 18 2007 4:31 utc | 16

We’ve already tried “destroying the village in order to save it”. The Iraqis have received far too much of this kind of help. Whitefella go home now.

Posted by: Copeland | Jul 18 2007 4:49 utc | 17

so slothrop, what is the expected value to be gained from the occupying forces staying in iraq?

Posted by: b real | Jul 18 2007 5:01 utc | 18

search as you might, you will not find support for this claim.
I searched for 4.2 seconds, and found 78% of Iraqis support this claim: link

Posted by: Mart | Jul 18 2007 5:23 utc | 19

sloth is an idiot, I agree 100% w/Copeland…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 18 2007 5:51 utc | 20

perhaps bushco is looking at the wrong model [Israel democracy] … the proper perspective should be puerto rico, guam, alaska, hawaii … heck! even the philippines succumbed after few years … and I only say perhaps …

Posted by: dolce | Jul 18 2007 6:17 utc | 21

So slothrop still thinks the U.S. must stay, bacause otherwise things like this might happen – couldn’t have that, could we?

They arrived early Tuesday morning in a straight line of official-looking vehicles, about 125 men dressed in Iraqi army fatigues and carrying standard-issue weapons. Aziza Abdul Jabbar and her relatives ran out of her home, believing the military had arrived to protect their tiny village in Diyala province.
Then the men opened fire in the darkness, shooting indiscriminately. Abdul Jabbar, 65, told a relative that she watched as they killed her son, daughter and 7-year-old grandson. The men cursed at her to go indoors, which she did, cowering in her mud-walled home as the shots continued. She thought the men might not ever stop shooting.
By the time the sun rose over the village, 30 of its people — including four children — were dead.

Posted by: b | Jul 18 2007 6:45 utc | 22

From the WaPo article gettin’ around:
Sectarian killings dropped to their lowest level of the past four months in June. But the downturn in violence in Shiite-dominated areas was not necessarily encouraging, Wink said.
“Now that the Sunnis are all gone, murders have dropped off,” he said. “One way to put it is they ran out of people to kill.”
Sounds like preventing civil war to me. Sheesh.

Posted by: anna missed | Jul 18 2007 7:53 utc | 23

Antifa is right. Frightenly so.
Slothrop wouldn’t know a fact if it sat on his face. Face it, Sloth, we’re all too dumb for you here — that’s why everything written here is so “reductionist.” Only you possess the sublime ability to distill the infinite number of signifiers and semiots in the world down to the primordial goo that is your very own brand of informed opinion, unhampered by “facts.” Only you know how to read a book written by some second-level, third-world, neo-con think-tank apparatchik, and distill facts from motivation, a feat that not a single pinhead on this pitiful blog has yet mastered, despite your selfless and unflagging tutelage. Oh woe to the stupid, the ignorant, the knee-jerk leftists of this blog who don’t automatically condemn the whole of Mesopotamia to automatic death because of slothrop’s ineluctable “facts.” What a bunch of bleeding heart softies we must all be! Even an Einstein and a Chomsky could not keep up with slothrop’s steady stream of “disinterested” analysis which his dusty tomes supply only him (and perhaps Bill Kristol): Those two lesser minds lacked slothrop’s mighty ability to configure the vast universal jigsaw of “facts,” and both eventually descended into the snakepit of humanism. So did Nobel Laureates like Dawkins, Aumann, and Schelling — whose work has provided an empirical basis to the long-term value of co-operation. Alas, humanity must be really fucked when such genius believes in itself. Oh mighty Slothrop, help us; rescue us from this dankful porridge of humanism, this reductive liberalism that insists on believing in people and co-operation over the Steppenwolfian world of Machiavelian, Hegalian Hell in which only you is privileged to eternally roast.
Keep telling us how Iraq was worse beforehand, with everyone killing everyone, and no civilized society whatsoever — no universities, no museums, no culture, no education, no rights for women, no healthcare, no shia-sunni intermarriage, no agriculture, no oil earnings to be distributed to the people, and far more background radiation then now, which the DU aerosolized over the country like some magic sticky goo which has miraculously absorbed all of those free ions preventing cancer throughout the lucky-ducky populace, sending those cancer rates and one-eyed cyclops microcephalic births to all-time lows in recorded history, far more carniverous fish cleaning the waters of the Tigris and Euphrates, far more women forced to prostitute themselves to the very occupying force they so detest, far more men caught up in the anodyne stupor of drug addiction — slutrollop baby, keep telling us, we’ll get it eventually.
Slothrop, truly you inhabit a Bizarro world; could you possibly be just an imaginary character out of a second-rate Seinfeld episode — a feverish nightmare of Kramer’s, or are you, despite all evidence — a humaniod. Look, Dr. Frankenstein, the creature, it breathes. Indeed it does. Unfortunately, in it’s puerile over-eagerness, it tends to spit-up a bit over the rest of us.

Posted by: Bob M. | Jul 18 2007 9:14 utc | 24

via Juan Cole something “funny” by Voice of America:

President Bush has signed an order that allows the U.S. government to block the assets of any person or group that threatens the stability of Iraq.
The order exempts the United States.

Posted by: b | Jul 18 2007 11:27 utc | 25

slothrop
to put it simply & brutally – on this issue – you are as mad as a meataxe

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 18 2007 12:54 utc | 26

john pilger in his adress to the conference & in his interview on democracy now speaks very precisely of what he calls the complicity of the liberal democratic left
that is certainly true in france – like slothrop they fall over each other to imagine the crimes of pre war iraq – their level of invention is almost as inspired as the state dept from whose orders they unwittngly follow
these same fools mouth the argument that if the u s leaves – then the world will be in grave danger – something that comes out of karl rove mouth or ass, whichever comes first
but a point pilger makes – & onein which i have argued with slothrop – is pinters cry at the nobel award – that because the u s does something – it hasn’t happened. that the crimes of the empire in iraq directed by this administration is on a direct parallel with that of rwanda
but for slothrop – the murder of iraq isn’t happening – or it is a wholly iraqian enterprise which he then claims is part of a milleniums history of bloodbaths – which he always fails – either to show or source

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 18 2007 13:21 utc | 27

to trust the various polls as proofs of concept is hopeless, given the facts of the civil war. it’s plainly untrue the iraqi factions have a national political consciousness, though the polls may reveal the wishful thinking of the people. the general impression i get from the literature is a strategic unwillingness of the militias to demand withdrawal. among the sadrists, “jam,” withdrawal is demanded only when a militia believes victory is possible w/out the occupation.
in any case, these seem uncontroversial predictions of a sudden absence of US:
-the fighting everywhere will escalate. the government will intervene, but the iraqi army will be ripped apart just as the lebanese army in that other civil war.
-turkey, iran, s.a., will likely be dragged into the war for slightly different reasons, but war between s.a./iran first as a proxy using militias seems likely
these seem to be the two basic outcomes. there’s only so much the occupation can do about the civil war. yet, the relative calm in western iraq is a convoluted success inasmuch as a political consolidation has occurred among sunni leaders there.
as for the 2nd problem, there’s just no question US occupation delays a regional war. to be sure, negotiation w/ especially iran might help since the interests of both, a stable iraq, coincide.
foreign affairs has offered unusually wide-ranging discussions/analyses. it’s worth reading now & then.

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 18 2007 16:31 utc | 28

bob, your olympian sanctimony makes me hot.

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 18 2007 16:37 utc | 29

pilger is 4/5ths gossip columnist.

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 18 2007 16:54 utc | 30

sorry for not being so clear – but the argument that i was making is based on the liberal lefts total ignorance or belligerent forgetting which premises that the u s empire has no blood on its hands for the last 100 years & iraq is just a ‘mistake’, an ‘error’, a ‘fiasco’ – but honestly arrived at for the good of mankind
such a thesis, as pinter decried with exactitude, necessarily forgets the bloodshed has brought to that same mankind. that it has brought that murder systematically, methodically & without a second thought for the ‘other’ – is completely forgotten. wilfully forgotten
in its place – there is as always, inventions of the narrative – as slothrop so systematically stresses with his superstructure of lies masquerading as history, then claiming that ‘non-history’ is a form or presience, a form of seeing what tthe world does not
it is not an accident that the arguers of this position – be they andre glucksmann or slothrop – never, ever mention the body count of the people of iraq. they do not do so because of the deaths that preceded it whether they were vietnamese, filipinos, indonesians, latin americans would weigh too heavily against their erroneous enunciations
on this score – i’d rather trust the likes of a john pilger who has arrived at the position he now argues after a great struggle within himself & within the system that would try to isolate him. pilger has gone from – a man of the centre with an instinctive sense of what’s wrong to a man capable of making all the connections & like fisk presenting us with an extremely dark present that we must all struggle against
these pessimists writers both look to the people’s movement in latin america as holding a key not only for the ‘third world’ but for those of us imprisoned in the jungle of the cities

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 18 2007 17:02 utc | 31

the demonisation of both john pilger & robert fisk by the liberal left is again completely consistant – they don’t like hard & irrevocable truths

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 18 2007 17:10 utc | 32

as slothrop so systematically stresses with his superstructure of lies masquerading as history, then claiming that ‘non-history’ is a form
did you fall off your gurney? now you sound all bobmish with the content-less repartee.
i find it interesting you have never responded to the specifics of our debate. please respond to the concrete history, hic et nunc. explain to me, w/ the intermittent clarity of your pre-concussive state, just what the world is likely to look like when the US pulls out.

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 18 2007 17:15 utc | 33

having read fisk’s vast elegy on the great war, i don’t think “fisk” means what you think it does.

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 18 2007 17:16 utc | 34

you have never provided specifics. i imagined you had a fear of them. as for concrete history – i think you can be modest enough my friend to acknowledge that i counselled you heavily to read robert fisks’s tome & it would seem to me that what ‘history’ you know of this region comes from that reading
the certain u s defeat in iraq will look exactly like the ignomonious defeat of the same empire in vietnam
to counter your erroneous positions i have offered many times to offer you a bibliography – i can still do that in my concussive state

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 18 2007 17:24 utc | 35

i’ve asked you repeatedly to match my concretely supported view of post-US iraq.
i know it doesn’t matter to you, because the deaths of everyone would be worth the passing excitement you’d feel witnessing the “fall of america.”
i find it interesting no one here has ever offered a concrete analysis of post-US iraq. even stranger is the dauntless unwillingness to square the “saddam-forever!” scenario with a liberalism wishing to seriously defend its principles. the left’s aporia.

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 18 2007 17:36 utc | 36

w/ the intermittent clarity of your pre-concussive state,
that is too low to stoop. cut it out. even you must have some limits.

Posted by: Bea | Jul 18 2007 17:39 utc | 37

take a fucking joke, please.
march your ass up the thread bea and tell me where those ad hominems begin?

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 18 2007 17:47 utc | 38

sloth is one of the seven deadly sins.
Inviting at first, and yet leaves one thoroughly drained. Avoid it, shall we let’s?

Posted by: citizen | Jul 18 2007 18:28 utc | 39

oh fuck off citizen. i may agree w/ the view here about u.s. out of iraq, but am willing to try and understand the consequences, which apparently among those who retrieve their “facts” from alex jones and youtube, makes me “stupid.”

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 18 2007 19:13 utc | 40

We’ve already killed/evicted 20% of the population and probably wounded/psychologically destroyed another 20%.
Maybe a bit high, but no stupid quibbles now.
50% of the rest live from hand to mouth, with insufficient food, no electricity, no jobs, no health care, dirty water, no schools, no going out for girls, no air conditioning, life in the Bad Zone.
it is:
giving birth in the dark, with only dirty water, an oil lamp, attended by a frightened neighbor; prayer, hope;
never passing your end of year exams, the teacher has been killed and the class decimated, even if you did pass, a stamp of sympathy, there is no future;
having to close your small shop, huddle in fear in your home. or move to a bombed out building, live under plastic sheets, beg in the street;
come home and conceal a rape, to finally break and hang yourself, it was not possible to continue the deception;
look at a starving child; know you can no longer breast feed, the child is 2 and you yourself are undernourished, despairing, dried up;
search and search and hunt to exhaustion for the son, the uncle, the father, the friend, taken away in a raid, not accounted for, no information, hunt, hunt, where, how?
apply for a job in the Green Zone; the money will feed, will, must: but the risks are so high…
better to be a prostitute, with care, maybe…
scream an’ yell and hope to intimidate when the US soldiers show up, wail, bend down, pray, but mostly make a lot of noise, they don’t like it, it can make them leave; they kill but are also vulnerable; hide the children if possible;
try to live without any male support;
Watchers, scribblers, pundits: Weep. bitter tears. Have at least that grace. And go on from there.

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 18 2007 19:31 utc | 41