Who Is The Boss? – Moon of Alabama

April 2, 2007

Who Is The Boss?

Olmert reminds Rice: Bush is still her boss writes Haaretz in a salivating report :

On her penultimate visit to Jerusalem six weeks ago, Rice discovered upon her arrival that Olmert had informed the media about his telephone conversation with Bush the previous day. "The prime minister and president see eye-to-eye," said a high ranking political official in Jerusalem.

The message was unmistakable: What Rice had to say barely mattered. Olmert had it all worked out with the president.

One wonders who is the real boss here. Bush allows Olmert, a Prime Minister with a 3% popularity rating in a small country, living on borrowed time and U.S. donations, to undermine his Secretary of State. Is Bush really the boss in that triangle?

Uri Avnery calls Rice a Pussy Cat. But those have claws and Rice seems to have none at all. Writes Avnery:

It appears that President Bush is even weaker than Olmert. In the two houses of Congress he has suffered a stinging defeat on Iraq. The American public has no stomach for another war, this time against a country far more united and determined than Iraq. In this political situation, the last thing he needs is a head-on collision with the pro-Israeli lobby, with its Jewish and Christian wings.

But there are supposed to be braver U.S. politicians than the pussy cat and her bosses. Meet the tigress Pelosi speaking to the Knesset and getting standing ovations:

"We must counter the terrorists’ vision of apocalypse and despair with our own vision of hope. International forces in Lebanon must implement the UN resolution effectively. Hizbullah must be disarmed. Iran must not be allowed to obtain a nuclear weapon."

Those are certainly statements that will make Olmert, or his successor Netanjahu shiver, or maybe they will rather clap as all the right(wing) buzzwords are included. Does she have teeth at all?

On the same pilgrimage another smart U.S. politician showed off his knowledge of Middle East relations:

Congressman Keith Ellison (D-Minnesota), the first Muslim elected to the House, told The Jerusalem Post he had a message of his own for the Syrian leader.

"I will tell Assad that it’s in the interests of everyone in the Middle East to have peace in the region and that Syria has an important role to play in that," Ellison said. "I will recommend that he start with goodwill gestures like releasing the kidnapped soldiers.

Ellison seems to believe that either Assad has taken some Israelis as POW, or that Assad can give orders to the Lebanese Sheik Nasrallah. The reality may just be too complicated for a U.S. lawyer who "specialized in trial practice."

So – who is the boss here? Pussy cat Condy certainly isn’t, Bush is timid of the AIPAC crowd and Pelosi is actively supporting it to cash in the campaign donations. Ellison, the show Muslim in Congress, does not know shit about the Middle East.

So none of these qualify – but so what, it’s child’s play to run an empire.

Posted by b on April 2, 2007 at 19:22 UTC | Permalink

Comments

Looks like Olmert is looking for new input.
After Talks With Merkel, Olmert Ready to Meet Arab Leaders | Germany | Deutsche Welle | 02.04.2007

After a meeting with German Chancellor Merkel, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said he is ready to attend a summit with Arab leaders to discuss a Saudi-drafted peace plan.

“I am announcing to the heads of the Arab states on this occasion that if the Saudi king initiates a meeting of moderate Arab states and invites me and the head of the Palestinian Authority in order to present us the Saudi ideas, we will come to hear them and we will be glad to voice ours,” Olmert said.
—
Olmert’s statements came after three weekend meetings with Merkel, who also met Abbas in Ramallah.
The German chancellor urged Israeli and Palestinian leaders to seize the opportunity to revive their peace talks, which have been stalled for six years.
Merkel, holder of the European Union’s rotating presidency,is trying to build on momentum for renewed peace talks between Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert after Arab states revived their peace offer to the Jewish state.

Posted by: Fran | Apr 2 2007 19:38 utc | 1

Looking for new input?
Don’t think so.
More like looking to sandbag with worthless discussions while Israel continues to steal Palestinian land and resources.
Bottom line is Israel has no intention of giving back what they’ve stolen so what’s there to talk about? The Saudis said something like that today in response to this risible horseshit from Olmert.

Posted by: ran | Apr 2 2007 20:11 utc | 2

I think the Saudis have learnt a lot from the Iranians in the past year. Hezboolah’s war in Lebanon was the crunch issue.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Apr 2 2007 21:37 utc | 3

killing zone

Posted by: annie | Apr 2 2007 21:54 utc | 4

Thanks Anni..Should be required viewing here in the US.

Posted by: Ben | Apr 2 2007 23:53 utc | 5

Anyone who dosent know that Israel/Zionists run our foriegn..and recently our domestic policy, media, congress..on and on..is sadly mistaken. Anyone with any real power in our gov had dual American/Israeli citizenship. Michael Chertoff for example. Just amazing that there arent riots in the streets over this.

Posted by: JJSF | Apr 3 2007 1:55 utc | 6

Welcome to the United States FOR Israel.

Posted by: mikefromtexas | Apr 3 2007 2:09 utc | 7

You, b, expert on everything, may despise Ellison, but I think it’s folks like him, erstwhile outsiders, who are our only hope.

Posted by: John Francis Lee | Apr 3 2007 5:12 utc | 8

Nice to stop by and see the ever vigilant crowd continues to bravely defy ~~Jew~~ Zionist control over the USA.
Oh why must them Zioneests keep messin’ with our heads
Us enlightened freedom fighters are hiding under beds
‘Cause we sure ain’t anti-semites as a rule
‘cept when their loyalties get so freaking dual
Dick Cheney better show us he wants America to Win
or we’ll start to doubt he even has a real foreskin
And George W. Bush, I know it seems absurd
but we think his grandpa musta dropped a “blatt” or a “berg”
Well we’re antizionists not jew haters
and we really resent it when our opinions are misstated
we only critique Zionists bad behavior
for Sabra and Shatilla and the way they killed our Savior.

Posted by: citizen k | Apr 3 2007 5:54 utc | 9

“It’s interesting because three of our colleagues, who are all Republicans, were in Syria yesterday and I didn’t hear the White House speaking out about that.”

~House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, wondering aloud about the White House’s criticism of her visit to Syria.

“That’s not going to happen. Forget it.”

~Rahm Emanuel, quoted by The New York Times answering the question of whether there’s a scenario under which Dems would move to impeach President Bush.
I don’t know who terrifies me more gog or the magog. The Jets or the Sharks. Cripes or bloods. And like Coke or Pepsi, both are poison to the system.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Apr 3 2007 6:03 utc | 10

aw, citizen k, you sent those messages from JJSF and mikefromtexas just so you could segue into your little ditty, didn’t ya?
shame on you ck.

Posted by: John Francis Lee | Apr 3 2007 6:44 utc | 11

@JFL – You, b, expert on everything, may despise Ellison, but I think it’s folks like him, erstwhile outsiders, who are our only hope.
Well, I am expert on nothing and I don’t despise Ellison as I know nothing about him. That is – except a bit I know – he is not well briefed in Hizbullah/Syria relations …

Posted by: b | Apr 3 2007 9:32 utc | 12

@citizen k:

Discussion of middle-east policy now
Revolves far too much around one sacred cow;
You will find that your arguments all go your way
Just so long as you keep in mind what not to say.
You can speak of the Arabs (though you may apprehend
That the word may not mean what you really intend)
Or of most of the Islamic countries around —
Which is highly convenient; such countries abound.
But in this diverse and quite populous region
A country exists whose detractors are legion —
Or so we are told; in the popular press
They’re the underdog nation; they’re under duress;
They’re never secure; they live under threat;
They’re perpetual victims, they tell us, and yet —
In addition to being a nuclear nation,
They receive quite a generous aid allocation
From their buddies, the debt-ridden U.S. of A.
In addition, some citizens also will pay
Voluntary donations. We’re told in the news
That Israel’s the sole mouthpiece for all the Jews.
Never mind that most Jews live outside of the nation,
Zion’s voice is the sole Jewish vocalization.
And no matter how often the Zionist state
Divides on a subject, Thou Shalt Not Debate!
And if you should doubt the divinity of
The Israeli position, well, be ye hawk or dove
You will find very quickly that you have been tarred
With unsavory epithets, and often barred
From all forms of discussion of current events.
Quite frankly, it just doesn’t seem to make sense!
Israel does not equal all of the Jews,
And it’s false to claim they have homogenous views!
In fact, one could say from a recent dispatch
That the Jewish and Israeli goals do not match.
But that isn’t all of the strangeness at hand:
To even discuss Zionism is banned.
When talking of Israel’s place in the news,
No matter how carefully blandly you choose,
You cannot avoid passing mention about
The fact that the Israeli lobby has clout.
And should you be getting unwisely verbose,
You’ll note that no other state even comes close.
And should you do something so sadly unwise,
You’ll be anti all Jews in a Zionist’s eyes.
And you may be assured they will not hesitate
To inform all the world of your violent hate.
In effect, people like our dear Citizen K
Are acting as though they could more simply say:
“You could kill all the Jews in, say, Russia. Who’d miss ’em?
But talk about AIPAC? Anti-Semitism!”

Posted by: The Truth Gets Vicious When You Corner It | Apr 3 2007 9:42 utc | 13

Wow, post a ditty and get an epic in response.
In fact, one could say from a recent dispatch
That the Jewish and Israeli goals do not match.
Racists and totalitarians of all stripes insist that the group – whether it be the tribe or State or religion – subsumes the individual. It’s hard to escape the dominance of such reasoning, but a little thought shows that “Israeli goals” is a fiction as much as “American goals”.
The difficulty of the topic is that the opposing mythologies of AIPACs “blood and land”, the evangelical apocalyticans fantasies of a final showdown in the ME, and 1000 years of anti-semitic western prejudice all fit together so well.
Europe’s unacknowledged legacy of anti-semitism and colonialism makes European intellectuals particularly prone to recycling the most hoary cliches. The perfect case in point was that pathetic Norwegian novelist who, last year, wrote a heartfelt reaction to what really were Israeli atrocities, but who was unable to keep himself from explaining it all in terms of Luther’s infamous exhortation to bring the hammer to the Jews for rejecting Christ’s mercy.
It’s very easy to find material in the US as well that starts with humanitarian complaints about e.g. Israeli use of fragmentation bombs and rapidly evolves into discussions of the lamentable “judaization” of American culture.
As seen above, much criticism of AIPIC is actually racism. AIPACs vile politics and delusions of grandeur do not mean that people like “mikefromtexas” have legit points.

Posted by: citizen k | Apr 3 2007 13:14 utc | 14

I do not have a link handy, but I do believe that the norwegian writer’s (in retrospect) stated intent was to make a condemnation prophecy inspired by the ones in the old testament. There are a lot of those.

Posted by: a swedish kind of death | Apr 3 2007 13:59 utc | 15

He said “Welcome to the United States FOR Israel.”.
You said he is “racist”.
Your gonna wear that word out, along with “antisemitism” – then where will you be?

Posted by: DM | Apr 3 2007 14:11 utc | 16

Oh yeah, I have no doubt that Jostein Gaarder had only the best of intentions. But what he wrote looked a lot like Luther’s infamous call to butchery (a call that polite Europeans now pretend did not happen). Look, European anti-semitism is a fundamental part of the culture. That doesn’t mean Europeans are evil people, but it does mean that it’s all too easy to do what Mr. Gaarder did and correlate specific Israeli atrocities with deeply ingrained prejudices against Jews. Similarly, when criticisms of AIPAC veer into familiar theories about a Jewish cabal that somehow controls poor, well-intentioned, hapless America, nothing is
gained by pretending that we are just discussing foreign policy. The story that America, real America, only means to do good, but the nefarious plotting Jews have led her astray is a basic element of racist mythology as much as the story that humanistic Europe, sensitive and moral, is opposed by the Vengeful God of the Hebrews.
The sad fact is that US policy towards Israel is not in contradiction to our other foreign policies: we dropped fragmentation bombs on Vietnamese and sponsored torture regimes in South America without the help of AIPAC, just as we engaged in slavery and the genocide of the Indians. And
European humanism is a story of unparalleled butchery and moral bunkum – from the African slave trade to the soap factories of the Reich there is a continuum of both massive violence and smarmy self-congratulation. Gaarder’s essay could have been referenced in Heart of Darkness, the same pompous Christian crap about how the Wogs don’t share our fine moral principles and only understand one thing.
King Leopold and I agree
the kikes and niggers cannot see
and don’t deserve our Christ’s mercy
We tried so hard to teach them math
and to use soap and listen to Bach
But it’s in the blood the savage brutes
So let us pray, it’s time to shoot.

Posted by: citizen k | Apr 3 2007 14:50 utc | 17

Jesus H, citizen k, your full of shit as usual. And the soap factories for fuck sake ??

Posted by: DM | Apr 3 2007 15:03 utc | 18

The soap factories are as real as the protocols of the elder of zion

Posted by: b | Apr 3 2007 15:45 utc | 19

Interesting comparison B. Nazi doctors did actually make soap from human fat in Danzig and the Nazis did actually manufacture items on a large scale from body parts of dead people at their death camps. The protocols of the elders of zion ?

Posted by: citizen k | Apr 3 2007 16:03 utc | 20

ck
by so quickly howling wolf, especially at this moment – when israel is carrying out programmes against the palestinian people that would have done christian wirth & his einsatzgruppen proud
i would again suggest youread raul hilberg on the destruction of european jewry – to view how exactly idf forces mirror the actions of the nazis – from ghettoisation, decrees, targeted assassinations, collective punisments, applied negligence
annies link to the ‘killing zone’ (which i imagine is itv is ueseful in its very clear exposition of what the policies of the idf mean practically
i’d also suggest the book by the australian journalist, antony loewenstein – & his book ‘my israel question – which expresses clearly that it is possible to be jewish & critical of the policies of israel
in fact today – a support for israel & its armed policies implicity suggest an anti semitism towards that opther semitic tribe – the arabs
as far as apaic is concerned – there is demonstrable proof of how they have manipulated or exercised their weight behind the maddest policies of the criminal bush administration – they are not a jewish cabal – as you imagine some people here think – but is a lobby group (because of the organic interdependance) of unique influence – a influence only comparable to the energy groups & the defence industry
& with the return of benjamin netanjahu – i fear the worse

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Apr 3 2007 17:23 utc | 21

Palestinian officials highly critical of Merkel visit
m and c news
(scroll down just a bit)
It was long discussed if Merkel whether was up to it…. Divorced, no good family, from the East, sort of unassuming, cludgy, would the Germans..?
What a joke. Bootlickers welcome! All image probelsm can be fixed! And they were.

Posted by: Noirette | Apr 3 2007 18:40 utc | 22

whether Merkel was up to it, no if…

Posted by: Noirette | Apr 3 2007 18:42 utc | 23

By now, if Bibi is returned to power, he will be paid for, by gangsters. The criminal element in Israel is underestimated. Of course ordinary crime, sex, trafficking, drugs, control of informatics, etc. are not usually associated to power in the Isr/US/Pal/Arab mess, as Western citizens prefer to close their eyes this kind of thing, and make reference only to ‘votes’, ‘power struggles’, ‘the people,’ ‘terrorists’ ‘propaganda’, and all that blah; they cannot acknowledge that traffiking in children, for example, could be tied to the power of the ‘State.’
Just look at the collapse of the ‘democratic’ state of Israel: by now half or more of top officials are in the dog house, jailed, indicted, quitted, removed, or under suspicion of dire crimes and fighting it. Israel has an independent judiciary (up to a point), contrary to the US, and some other Western countries.

Posted by: Noirette | Apr 3 2007 18:58 utc | 24

@Noirette – Merkel did work in a underreported part-time propaganda role in the GDR. (I always wonder what the CIA has in its drawer on her earlier “work”).
Here existence is to be a tool, not some individual thinker.
On Israel and crimes – yes, it is incredible how the people there allow this to happen. There seems to be nobody in the upper echelon that has not an indiction in or coming.
Non of that reported in the U.S. or European press, but daily exposed in the Israeli press.

Posted by: b | Apr 3 2007 19:32 utc | 25

b
that is one of life’s little ironies – some of the harshest critics of the occupation write for israeli newspapers & some of the harshest critics of the ocupation of the palestinian people are jewish intellectuals
for every minor intellectual thug like an alan dershowitz there is a major mind noam chomsky & for evey insgnifiant non person like david horowitz there is a substantial one like ilan pappe

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Apr 3 2007 19:48 utc | 26

RG:
Your comparison between IDF and Einsatzgruppen is both wrong and counterproductive. In fact, the type of operations carried out by Israel do not differ from standard operating procedures of the British Army in Belfast and the Americans in Iraq or Vietnam or the Russian Army in Chechnya or the French in Algeria. The same attack helicopters, bulldozers, psy-ops, special forces, murders, tortures, bombardment of civilians, etc. etc. All these guys study each others techniques – techniques that are known to fail at the ostensible purpose, but to work well as parts of the permanent security state. By analogizing the Israelis to the Nazis instead of their role models in the West, you actually disguise the horrors of the Israeli occupation.
I have two objections to the anti-zionists. First, by tolerating or embracing every moron anti-semite who appears to agree with their cause, they make anti-semitism socially acceptable. I don’t have patience for that crap. Jostien Gaarder is all too typical in his ressurection of European/Christian mythologies about the subhuman status of the oriental. The entire fabulation about Israel somehow violating the civilized norms of the West is colonial fiction at its most sickening.
Second, by turning ineffectual hysteria into an industry, they have essentially collaborated with the takeover of the Israeli state by a theo-mobocracy. In 50 years, things have gone from bad to worse for Palestinians while generations of Western solidarity professionals have filled themselves with self-righteous feelings of accomplishment. AIPAC is a dangerous enterprise, but it is protected, not damaged, by idiot stories about “dual loyalty” and conspiracy theories about how the blessed US government has been hoodwinked by the Jews.

Posted by: citizen k | Apr 3 2007 19:48 utc | 27

ck
i think the einsatzgruppen as a formation are very similiar indeed to the idf but you are correct in siting that the british in malaysia & africa, the americans everywehere, the french here & there & the russians in chechnya have been mothered by that model
it is absolutely clear that the model was to be elaborated & shaped into guatemalan & iraqi death squads, from the phoenix programme to the salvadorian policies of the criminal negroponte
& i agree essentially – that if you start targeting the jewish people as a people – it is only one step towards -vernichten – but it is also true that when we try to hide the criminal policies of the state of israel & as you rightly call a theomobocracy – we are permitting another form of the same vernichten – that is the destruction or laying to waste of a people & a culture
& it is not too long a bow to pull to speak of the village culture of occupied palestine being destroyed in the same way as shtetl life was itself extinguished
& isn’t gardier just one other student of that old nazi drama queen mercia eliade

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Apr 3 2007 20:03 utc | 28

ck Your comparison between IDF and Einsatzgruppen is both wrong and counterproductive. In fact, the type of operations carried out by Israel do not differ from standard operating procedures of the British Army in Belfast and the Americans in Iraq or Vietnam or the Russian Army in Chechnya or the French in Algeria. The same attack helicopters, bulldozers, psy-ops, special forces, murders, tortures, bombardment of civilians, etc. etc. All these guys study each others techniques – techniques that are known to fail at the ostensible purpose, but to work well as parts of the permanent security state. By analogizing the Israelis to the Nazis instead of their role models in the West, you actually disguise the horrors of the Israeli occupation.
Let’s see:
Einsatzgruppen – early 1940s
French in Algeria – 1960s
British in Belfast – 1970s
Sowjets in Chenchnia – 1980s
Americans in Vietnam – 1970s, Iraq 2000s
Israel in Palestine – 1940s-2000s
The “standard operation procedures” in these actions were all about the same – not the officials ones of course, but the ones that happen(d).
1. I fail to see how, as ck implies, criminal activity of other countries justifies criminal activity by Israel.
2. I fail to see how RGs historic view of a source of methods is invalidated by a mixture of later appliances of such methods.
Sure he could have started off earlier with some classic greek or roman massacer, or the U.S army in the Phillipines in 1900 or so – but that wasn’t the point.
Maybe someone can enlighten me here.

Posted by: b | Apr 3 2007 20:09 utc | 29

Her existence is to be a tool, not some individual thinker.
(Merkel.)
Absolutely.

Posted by: Noirette | Apr 3 2007 20:13 utc | 30

Second, by turning ineffectual hysteria into an industry, they have essentially collaborated with the takeover of the Israeli state by a theo-mobocracy. In 50 years, things have gone from bad to worse for Palestinians while generations of Western solidarity professionals have filled themselves with self-righteous feelings of accomplishment.
Collaborated is a bit too strong I feel. But that is a matter of appreciation, as the French use that word, meaning, interpretation. And ineffectual hysteria is not a kind way to describe me and my colleagues efforts to keep Pal schools going. And skips over the matter that Pals are since some years being fed by some EU countries. (Through the UN and direct donations and even by the US..) Quite so. And no feelings of accomplishment are trumpeted. In fact I hesitated to type what I did.
Who has stood up for the Pals? The EU? *NO.* The Arab States? *NO*, except in the same kind of way, such as Saddam providing minimal housing, food, and phones for Pals, etc., and a lot of Arab hand wringing in meetings. South America? Never..they love the US being busy with anything but themselves. Africa? They are in the ditch, never heard of their Palestinian brothers, or did and don’t care, they have their own problems. South Africa?, which was supported by Israel in its apartheid state – oh no not a peep. People in the US? Give me a break.
Who is there for them? Why hasn’t Europe, not the EU which is a political entity, done more, or better?
Fear. Submissiveness. Keeping a low profile. Unwillingness to become involved in a proxy fight. Fear of reprisals. Toeing the line. Doing the minimum. Keeping face. Keeping the conflict going with minimal support, cloaked in humanitarianism. Staying on the right side of the hegemon. Calculating to come out clean. Hoping an energy take-over is ultimately possible, which means sacrificing the Pals.

Posted by: Noirette | Apr 3 2007 21:02 utc | 31

i’d repeat that the einsatzgruppen is the model for ecer other extr-military formation that happens after it
there are several other points i would like to make – the myth of ‘special forces’ is really only an elaboration of the waffen ss – the sas, the seas, green berets & so on are not military forces but political & ideological ones. & it is for this reason their ‘successes’ are much vaunted but that are in reality proved to be little more than ‘adventures’ that turn easily into massacres
the overall history of special forces (as stan goff notes) is a sad one – they have been proved more than incompetent – their failures are legion but their profiteering is great. literally, they make up the bulk of the psychopathic armies of blackwater & every second one of them writes some foolish book on their so called ‘heroics’ & tries to augment their cultural weight in an ideology so impoverished – that they appear the ‘last chance’ of a military approach
special forces, like the waffeen ss are what the west loves to call the arab armies of every kind – fanatics. the quantitative difference here tho – is that for all the criminality of the ss – they were in a military sense – courageous & none more so than the fanatic ss lefions from france belgium, denmark norway & sweden. but in western countries today it is their enlisted forces that do the dying – while the so called heroes are looking for book & tv deals
they are a myth & the peoples army of hezbollah has proved that it is a myth
the other factor that the nazis gave the modern stae was communications & public relations both at a local, national & international level. every, every military action by the empire & its allies have taken what goebells & his ministry taught & turned it into modern day communications. karl rove & alistair campbell are both functionaries who could have served equably under the reichminister of propoganda
what i’m suggesting paranthetically is that the modern war is an ideological war in the first instance tho it might at the same time be a war of resources & that these wars are going to be fought every bit as inhumanely as the einsatzgruppen
the wolfowitz doctrine was to essentially subjugate a culture through massive force & terror into inactivity – so that the resource war could be fought more securely. this doctrine imagined the armies of the empire being capable of a brutality that had been hidden from view in the cities & the countryies of latin & central america – would now be enacted more or less publically against an enemy so demonised – all their contingent humanity would be washed away
that is why i get so furious at slothrop because the carefully woven arguments that hide the hidden horror of the imperial war
an imperial war that found its fountainhead in the ravines of babi yar

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Apr 3 2007 21:03 utc | 32

The word “anti-semite” is just about burnt through. Does it mean someone who favors genocide (like the Nazis), or someone who opposes it–who speaks out against the murder and disposession of Palestine?
How can you tell? I no longer can. Any Jew with the least brains does not want to encourage this trend: That anti-jewish prejudice, “anti-semitism” returns to common acceptance.
But: Oh well. You will reap what you sow.
A friendly warning, before it is absolutely too late.

Posted by: Gaianne | Apr 3 2007 22:33 utc | 33

B writes “I fail to see how, as ck implies, criminal activity of other countries justifies criminal activity by Israel.” and I am once again amazed at the power of a narrative device. If you can find anything in my words to justify Israel, please point it out. Let’s try another example: If I condemn the racist propaganda of the French “anti-immigrant” right, there is no implication of justifying the thuggish behavior of Islamicist Immams who threaten girls for not wearing the hijab. In this world, there is not always automatic good guys versus bad guys. Racist slimeballs like Bernard Lewis can critique things that are actually bad in Islamic societies, and anti-semites can condemn Israeli atrocities. But criticism of bad things does not make the criticizer good. When the UN-watch lambasts the chickenshit UNHRC for its gutless refusal to mention Darfur or Chechnya or do anything but pass routine denounciations of Israel, the truth of this critique is undeniable, but it doesn’t in any way justify what Israel is doing. This type of reasoning is apparently unacceptable.
Gaianne threatens me for not being nice and servile. Thanks for your friendly warning and go fuck yourself.

Posted by: citizen k | Apr 4 2007 4:10 utc | 34

#34 translated:

I don’t want to talk about Israeli crimes, because even a shameless partisan like myself can no longer claim they don’t exist. So instead of challenging the charges, I’m going to dismiss the people making the accusations.

Posted by: The Truth Gets Vicious When You Corner It | Apr 4 2007 4:35 utc | 35

Ah TTGVWYCI, my rightist ex-friends made exactly the same comment when I refused to endorse their stupid war on Iraq. Obviously, my critique of the neo-cons was an attempt to protect Saddam. So it goes with such ideology. We start above with staples of anti-semitic conspiracy theory, yet my objections to this bullshit and to the toleration of it must be, of course, only an attempt to draw attention away from Israeli crimes.
Noirette, #31 to me there is a very comfortable racket in which Europe and Canada can mildly condemn the US and Israel instead of facing up to reality – and US rightists can identify AIPAC/Jews as the source of the gap between US talk and action. Why is there a military Jewish state appearing in Palestine in 1948 and what causes Zionism as an ideology to gain credence among European Jews in the preceding 3/4 century? Must be the nature of the Jews who, after all rejected Christ’s mercy – this is the message not only of Gaarder but of the Hungarian Right and the comfortable Euro solidarity left. There is, obviously, no relationship to European history and besides that was long ago. Why does Europe not welcome in Palestinian refugees ? Of course, Europe has no obligation and no
responsibility either for Israel or for e.g. former European colonies or US actions in the ME – the Europeans are just peacefully raising dairy cattle and developing their humanitarian culture when the terrible Yanks and Yids cause trouble. Before 1948, the French were in Syria merely to teach appreciation of Racine and the Brits were dropping gifts from the air on grateful Iraqi tribesmen. Anyways, that was all long ago and cannot have any bearing on the current situation which is strictly the fault of others.
The Palestinians remain in the grinder because they are useful to the Oil states and the Butter States precisely there.

Posted by: citizen k | Apr 4 2007 5:16 utc | 36

It seems appropriate to post this on this thread. Every cause should have a “gala dinner”.

Posted by: ww | Apr 4 2007 5:35 utc | 37

The Republicrats and Demoplicans are lining the USA up for the indefinite occupation of Iraq in order to expropriate Iraqi oil, and therefore for a war of indefinite duration.
A “foreign policy” founded upon injustice necessarily entails perpetual warfare in defense of its foundation.
The Israeli government has been occupying all of Palestine for forty years in order to expropriate its land and water.
Israel has already committed to perpetual warfare in defense of injustice.
To the Neocons this is all old hat. They wish we would just “get over it”, and “get with the program”.
I am personally unwilling for my nation to dedicate itself to perpetual warfare, that is to a perpetual series of individual murders, in defense of an unjust policy.
I am personally unwilling for my nation to continue to underwrite perpetual warfare, a perpetual series of individual murders, on the part of Israel in defense of basic injustice.
More and more Americans, and others world wide, are being forced to come to grips with this same decision and are likewise willing to stand against perpetual warfare in defense of injustice.
If there were an election today with candidates who pledged to end support for all the Neocons’ Middle Eastern wars… in Palestine, in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Lebanon, in Iran… those candidates would win in a landslide. The challenge is to make sure that such candidates are discovered, heard, defended from such off-topic slander as is presented once again here (what did we do to earn the vacation… let’s do it again!) and elected.
The Neocons are furiously fighting their rearguard campaign. They are just going to have “to get over it”. To stop. To “get with the program”.

Posted by: John Francis Lee | Apr 4 2007 7:06 utc | 38

citizen k #43–
Gaianne threatens me for not being nice and servile. Thanks for your friendly warning and go fuck yourself.
That you choose to interpret my words as a threat says it all. You have no idea how your fate is not my concern. I have other concerns. You will do as you like.
No skin off my teeth–none at all.

Posted by: Gaianne | Apr 4 2007 7:15 utc | 39

And where does this MADNESS originate? Japanese? RAF pilots asked to consider suicide flight

Posted by: jj | Apr 4 2007 8:02 utc | 40

annie #4–
Thank you for the link. The incidents covered in the film give intensity to the known facts.
Any one familiar with Nazi history will recognize the model for Israeli tactics and practices.

Posted by: Gaianne | Apr 4 2007 8:19 utc | 41

jj #44–
Hard to believe, isn’t it? I had no idea the British high command was so thoroughly eaten through by mental rot.
Seemingly the pilots have more sense, and remember the basics of air tactics.

Posted by: Gaianne | Apr 4 2007 8:23 utc | 42

#42: Yes, the RAF pioneered air tactics in Iraq in 1924.

Posted by: citizen k | Apr 4 2007 12:52 utc | 43

where’s your defense citizen k??? not a peep? if i said mosts israeli’s were arrogant, clueless, and ignorant what would you say in response?. why don’t you take a little stroll over to the other thread and comment about the racism? nobody seems to have much problem lumping most of americans into one big generalized category for a pile on (much of it well deserved) but it’s taboo to rant about israel because why?
israel is our little mini me in the ME. everyone knows this. its not because they are jewish, it is because they are our foot in the door in the ME. obviously. take all the israelis and put them in omaha then transplant omaha to it’s own little state where israel sits and do you think we would be sending billions a year to omaha? of course. do you think more than a few americans would say w/resentment “welcome to the united states for omaha?”. of course they would. it is not about the jews there, it is about our interests and our expansion to the part of the world that contains what we need, what everyone needs. if israel was located on the island of new zealand does anyone think we would be sending them billions a year.
anyone can muse all they want about the (1%)of rich elites that control the media, dominate our foreign policy, get tax breaks, run all the corporations, it goes on and on but noticing jews make up a healthy portion of this group that lobby for israel makes you an anti semite? screw that.
face it, you criticize israel’s agenda which is no different than america’s and you get slammed as racist. why don’t you saunter over to the other thread and spread the love citizen k, berate all the posters there, i seemed to be rather alone w/few exceptions thinking there was too much generalizing going on.

Posted by: annie | Apr 4 2007 12:56 utc | 44

RG, I object to your comparison because it is simply wrong. There is no direct parallel between the Nazi massacres and post war western special forces. The major activity of the Einsatzgruppen was large scale massacre on a regular basis. Clearly, this is not what Israel is doing or US in Iraq or what France did in Algeria or Brits in Malaysia. Even the infamous “operation phoenix” was not similar to Einsatzgruppen in tactics. When the remnants of rule of law disappear in Israel and a coalition of mafia/Theocrats are in total control, we can look for large scale genocide in Israel but for right now they are using the School of Americas/Algeria model which is different and derives more from European and US colonial experience than anything else. Read Mark Twain on the US adventure in Philipines or Winston Churchills tactics in Iraq in 1924 for precursor.

Posted by: citizen k | Apr 4 2007 13:23 utc | 45

does it really matter if it is large scale massacres on a regular basis or death by a thousand cuts over 40-50 years, the result is the same for the displaced and the dead

Posted by: jcairo | Apr 4 2007 13:58 utc | 46

“if i said mosts israeli’s were arrogant, clueless, and ignorant what would you say in response?.”
I’d say you were being optimistic.

Posted by: citizen k | Apr 4 2007 14:14 utc | 47

Annie:
I looked at the other thread and it seems like the typical Euro-excuse. The irony is that the Europeans think their lifestyle will continue when the US collapses because they are in total denial about how the world economy works and whether the rest of the world will tolerate their extraction of wealth without US force to back up the international order. Oh to be sure, what Exxon/Aramco does is bad, but what Elf and BP and Shell do is purely humanitarian. They used to say, they were so amused, by Uncle Sam in rags and the language he used, but later they won’t talk so loud.
But if you look at the top of this thread, what attracted my attention was not “slams” of Israel, but stupid conspiracy theories about how the Jews control poor hapless America. The Israelis are, in my opinion, doing an excellent job of matching their leadership intelligence and competence level to that of the US government, but Bush can go back to Connecticut when he fucks up and Olmert will have to steal enough so that some European nation will give him humanitarian refuge.

Posted by: citizen k | Apr 4 2007 14:33 utc | 48

& the error is yours ck – i was clearly outlining – einsatzgruppen & all its inheritors as being an armed ideological force – qualitatively different from the role of an armed force which often has as many contradictions & subtleties as civil society – tho even that force can segue into action more appropriate for ‘special forces’ & i’m afraid i only see a quantative difference say between the killing of villagers in persia during mossadeq by the cia as those being gunned down one by one in the hills of riga

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Apr 4 2007 14:47 utc | 49

So, RG, perhaps I just don’t understand your point. You may be interested in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_forces

Posted by: citizen k | Apr 5 2007 2:40 utc | 50

Who is the boss?
Israel’s Protests Are Said to Stall Gulf Arms Sale

A major arms-sale package that the Bush administration is planning to offer Saudi Arabia and other Persian Gulf allies to deter Iran has been delayed because of objections from Israel, which says that the advanced weaponry would erode its military advantage over its regional rivals, according to senior United States officials.
…
The United States has made few, if any, sales of satellite-guided ordnance to gulf countries, several officials said. Israel has been supplied with such weapons since the 1990s and used them extensively in its war against Hezbollah last summer.
The American officials would not provide a dollar figure for the planned sales. But one American defense industry executive said that if all the equipment under discussion with the Saudis and other gulf countries was eventually sold — including tanks, warships and advanced air defense systems — the deal could run from $5 billion to $10 billion.
The Israeli complaints have introduced a new uncertainty into the administration’s plan to beef up Persian Gulf militaries as a bulwark against Iran and as a demonstration that, no matter what happens in Iraq, Washington remains committed to the Sunni Arab governments around the region.
…
Israel is also concerned that the Bush administration’s ambitions for an American-Israeli-Sunni coalition allied against Iran may never materialize, or that there could be a revolution in Saudi Arabia that would leave the mostly American-made Saudi arsenal in the hands of militant Islamists.
“The Israelis believe the government of Saudi Arabia is under a great deal of pressure,” said David Schenker, a former Pentagon official who is now a senior fellow on Arab politics at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.
…
Israel and the United States have been in discussions over a new military aid package that could increase American support for Israel’s military to around $3 billion from $2.4 billion.
…
Israeli officials and their allies in Washington, led by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, have long opposed American arms sales to Saudi Arabia and Arab states.
…
Aside from the Israeli objections to part of the arms package, Bush administration officials have had difficulty getting some gulf countries to commit to arms purchases, according to Kenneth Katzman, a Middle East analyst with the Congressional Research Service. Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries “are not sure what the long-term U.S. commitment is, and they don’t want to be seen as ganging up on Iran in case we leave,” Mr. Katzman said.

Posted by: b | Apr 5 2007 8:20 utc | 51

If I were Saudi Arabia I would definitely “gang up” WITH Iran and lock up the Middle East for Middle Easterners.
All this religious talk is fine for the masses, but when it comes to the region’s oil, and whether to let the US grab control of it… the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Posted by: John Francis Lee | Apr 5 2007 10:42 utc | 52

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