Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 11, 2006
Murder Context

This morning three children were killed in the Gaza strip. The incident sounds mysterious. This was not a stray IDF artillery shoot, but "unknown gunmen" who did kill exactly those they wanted to kill.

We will have to go back a bit to set this murder into context.

In 2005 the Palestinians had a presidential election. Mahmoud Abbas was a Fatah candidate as was Marwan Barghouti, who at that time was imprisoned by Israel. Both had about equal chances. After pressure, Marwan Barghouti, who polled at least equal to Abbas, retracted his candidacy.

Hamas, the second relevent party, boycotted the election. There were several other candidates from smaller parties. Abbas did win the election, heavily obstructed by Israel, with 62% of the votes. Some of the circumstances looked dubious, but the result was respected.

In January 2006, the parliament elections took place. Hamas won 74 of the 132 seats and offered Fatah to form a coalition government. Fatah concided defeat and choosed not to take part in the government.

Israel, with support of the EU and the the U.S., launched a "destabilization plan". It cut off tax funds owned to the new Palestinian Hamas government and all help payments were stopped.

In May some reports pointed to the arming of Abbas’ Fatah by the EU, the U.S. and some Arabian U.S. client states. BBC reported:

Israel says it will allow security forces loyal to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to be supplied with weapons from third countries.

Another report said:

While European Union countries like Spain would provide non-lethal equipment, senior Abbas aide Saeb Erekat said that Egypt and Jordan were pledging guns and ammunition.

Western countries want to ensure Abbas emerges victorious in any power struggle with the militant group Hamas, which now controls the Palestinian government.

Diplomats said Abbas’s presidential guard, once fully expanded and equipped, could be deployed to hunt down militants that Hamas won’t rein in and to step in if fighting breaks out among Palestinian factions.

In July some 1,000 to 3,000 M16 guns and millions of bullets were delivered to Abbas’ Fatah groups.

Over the summer there was a lot of pressure on Hamas to form a "unity government" with Fatah. In effect, Hamas would have to surrened their election victory to get the collective punishment stopped. Hamas would also have to reject its basic principal stance versus Israel. So far it rejected and the negotiations are ongoing, but seem to be near breakdown.

Meanwhile the Gaza ghetto gets suffocated and there were reports of civil unrest over unpayed government wages.

A month ago new reports about U.S. support for additional weapon for Abbas’ Fatah surfaced. This time the Europeans took a stand against the proposal:

Fatah officials have asked for more than 1,000 reinforcements from the Palestine Liberation Organisation’s Badr Brigades, in exile in Jordan.

One Western official said that non-American quartet members emerged from one meeting convinced that the US wanted President Abbas to dismiss the Hamas Government, and to use his security forces to “confront Hamas politically and militarily, having confronted it economically”.

“There was effectively a stand-off. As far as we are concerned, what the Americans are proposing to do is back one side in an emerging civil war,” said a western official familiar with the discussions.

The U.S. procedes undeterred:

The United States would also support letting about 1,000 members of the Badr Brigade, a Fatah-dominated force based in Jordan, into Palestinian territories to reinforce Abbas’s guard.

"The decision would have to be made by the governments of Jordan, Israel and the Palestinians. But the idea is a logical one both militarily and politically," Dayton said.

U.S. plans call for expanding the force initially to around 4,700 members, up from 3,500 today. But Palestinian officials estimated the force could eventually grow to 10,000 members. The U.S. programme includes funds for training the force.

At the same time, Hamas is also building up forces, but given the strict boarder closing, it is doubtable that it can get hands on a significant numbers of weapons.

Like in Iraq and Lebanon, the U.S. is involved in formenting a civil war. Here undoubtedly supporting one side with weapons against the elected government.

Abbas is now trying to dismiss the Hamas government and to call for new elections but this appears to be obviously illegal and unsuccessful.

It is in this context today’s murder in the Gaza strip has to be seen:

Unidentified gunmen killed three sons of a Palestinian intelligence official loyal to President Mahmoud Abbas in Gaza on Monday, firing at a car as it dropped the boys at school, police and hospital officials said.


The car taking the children to school was peppered with bullet holes and blood stains covered the seats. Two school bags, one green and the other blue, lay inside.

Several other schools line the street, which was crowded with children at the time of the shooting.

Residents said the gunmen fled with Hamas policemen in pursuit.

Killing the children of a Fatah "intelligence official", i.e. of an officer of Abbas’ U.S. funded  atah army, is a level of violence that was not seen before in Gaza or the West Bank.

Someone may just have tried to start a huge clash, if not a civil war here.

Who could that be?

Comments

thanks b

Posted by: annie | Dec 11 2006 21:19 utc | 1

Yes, thanks for another superb and informative post.
Here is some more context from a journalist on the ground in Gaza — how it looked from 1 block away, and her perspective on what it all might mean.

Posted by: Bea | Dec 11 2006 21:28 utc | 2

b asks, “Who could that be?”
Threat of Palestinian Civil War Looms ?
Yeah, says who? I don’t know the political intracasies of this region, so thank you b on the education. Further, I’d be willing to bet it is certain that this will be detrimental to the PA and the people.
With distribution to 8,500 newspapers around the world, the Associated Press carries a lot of clout. I also wonder whom these stories benefit?
And take a look at how this article’s lead paragraph is worded:
“By threatening to ignite a Palestinian civil war, the killing of three children…”
Is that what the perpetrator(‘s) of these murders actually wanted, civil war between Palestinians?
And I can bet you right now, Palestinians, don’t want a civil war: they want a nation, a stable economy, where people can live, work, and dream, in peace without “the chosen people” standing on their collective necks.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 11 2006 21:32 utc | 3

I didn’t know the Guardian carried Voice of Israel poster boy Lavie. I cringe whenever I hear him on CNN. He is FauxNews on steroids.
way too many lies and half truths in that 2 inch story to begin to tackle.
there is certain to be an all out offensive by the zionists now. it seems that some of the sleeping US taxpayers may not want to keep sending young men and money to die in Mesopotamia and that simply is not good for business in Tel Aviv. It is imperative to get Israeli linkage to Iraq out of the news cycle. Fatah shooting Hamas children should be good for a day or two.
It really doesn’t take too much given the attention spans of most of my fellow citizens.

Posted by: dan of steele | Dec 11 2006 21:57 utc | 4

The consequences of an action are either foreseen or not. If they are foreseen, it is evident that they increase the goodness or malice. For when a man foresees that many evils may follow from his action, and yet does not therefore desist therefrom this shows his will to be all the more inordinate.
But if the consequences are not foreseen, we must make a distinction. Because if they follow from the nature of the action and in the majority of cases, in this respect, the consequences increase the goodness or malice of that action: for it is evident that an action is specifically better, if better results can follow from it; and specifically worse, if it is of a nature to produce worse results. On the other hand if the consequences follow by accident and seldom, then they do not increase the goodness or malice of the action: because we do not judge of a thing according to that which belongs to it by accident, but only according to that which belongs to it of itself.
Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theol. I-II

Posted by: jlcg | Dec 11 2006 22:17 utc | 5

Fatah shooting Hamas children should be good for a day or two.
Well, here someone did shoot children of a Fatah operative …

Posted by: b | Dec 11 2006 22:37 utc | 6

sorry b, you are right of course, I did reverse perp and victim.

Posted by: dan of steele | Dec 11 2006 22:51 utc | 7

somebody is giving the ME a shot of pitocin to bring on those birthpangs.

Posted by: annie | Dec 11 2006 23:39 utc | 8

dan of steele :
How do you know that Hamas is the perp? Israel is at least as likely to be the perp. Israel will surely be found to have been “at arm’s length”, as at Sabra and Shatila, if Israel is the perp.
Just as the US endeavers to be “at arm’s length” from the Israeli expropriation of Palestine and the destruction of the Palestinian nation.
On the face of their histories the cold-blooded murder of Palestinian children is much more likely to have been carried out by Israel than by Hamas.

Posted by: John Francis Lee | Dec 12 2006 0:07 utc | 9

JfL if you review dans #4 post i think he makes it clear the intended perception is what he was referencing, not the reality.

Posted by: annie | Dec 12 2006 0:19 utc | 10

Why do I get the same wibes here that a lot of murders in Iraq gave me in 2004?
Will we in 2008 hear people say that Israel needs to keep troops in the Westbank and Gaza to prevent even worse civil war among Palestinians?

Posted by: a swedish kind of death | Dec 12 2006 0:21 utc | 11

Yesterday I posted about the results of Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyya’s (Hamas) visit to Iran. Today I belatedly discover that he also apparently had unprecedented success during a visit to Syria before the Teheran stop.
Haniyya in Syria

December 8 — Minister Haniyya’s visit to Damascus may result in the release of Palestinian political prisoners from Syrian prisons.
During two days in the capital, talks were described as “sensitive,” and Ismail Haniyya was able to obtain a promise from the Syrian leadership. Palestinians should be released within a short time frame, as soon as names and locations can be inventoried and processed.
Sources in the Prime Minister’s office did not reveal the exact number of detainees, but human rights sources say that there are at least one thousand. Among them are Palestinians who have spent decades in Syrian prisons, but no one was certain what had happened to them….
The Hamas party has already achieved what no other has been able to; obtain a promise. No other Palestinian politician has been able to do what Prime Minister Ismail Haniyya accomplished over the last two days. Hundreds of families are talking about this “sensitive and painful” issue and the “longstanding dream of closure.” Hundreds of Palestinians have been released from Syrian prisons in the past, including senior officials in the Palestinian Authority and women, one of whom was held for 17 years and has now returned home to Jerusalem. But never has a promise been made to release all of them…..

For the Palestinians, who count so many loved ones imprisoned, the well-being and release of prisoners is an enormously important issue.
The fact that Haniyya is chalking up all these successes abroad would appear to have major diplomatic significance, especially in the eyes of the Palestinians, Israel, and the U.S.. This is a democratically elected, legitimate Prime Minister — a local Gazan — and a Hamas leader at that. This is not Yasser Arafat, guerilla, rebel, and controversial figure, jet setting around the world. Haniyya will return to Gaza enormously elevated in stature in the eyes of his people. So what better time to try and stigmatize Hamas through a desperate move like the slaughter of the children of a Fatah leader on their way to school? What better time to try and sow chaos? If the desperate measures of starving an entire people are not going to bring this government down legitimately, then perhaps some feel it is time to bring it down by any means possible… I am not asserting that any one party or another did it. For all I know this was a local affair, revenge on the intelligence official for someone he had taken down. Alternatively, this individual made a perfect target because he had so many potential enemies…
All that is clear is — so far, no one has claimed responsibility.

Posted by: Bea | Dec 12 2006 1:28 utc | 12

One more — Here are details of what the $250 million that Iran has pledged to Prime Minister Haniyya and the Hamas government will be used for. This is by way of illustrating how enormous a sum this is relative to the Gaza economy, and how, at least for now, this renders the US boycott somewhat irrelevant:

Meanwhile, Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh announced Monday that Iran had promised to give the PA’s Hamas government $250 million in 2007.
Haniyeh, who was speaking at the conclusion of a visit to Tehran, termed the visit “historic and very successful.”
“We achieved our goals on this visit,” he said. “We found all the love it is possible to give to the Palestinian people.”
According to Haniyeh, the Iranian donation will include a direct cash payment to Hamas of $100 million.
The remainder will be divided as follows: paying the unpaid salaries of employees of three ministries – labor, welfare and culture – as well as stipends to Palestinian prisoners and their families for the next six months ($45 million); paying stipends of $100 a month to some 100,000 unemployed Palestinian civil servants for the next six months ($60 million); doing the same for some 3,000 Palestinian fisherman ($1.8 million); building a cultural center and “national” offices, apparently for the government’s use ($15 million); rebuilding some 1,000 demolished houses, at a cost of about $10,000 per house ($20 million); purchasing 300 new cars for the Palestinian government ($3 million); and purchasing Palestinian olive oil at a special high price ($5 million).
Iran also promised to build three new hospitals and 10 clinics in the territories over the next 10 years.
Haniyeh said that the financial aid was personally approved by Iran’s supreme spiritual leader, Ali Khamenei, with whom he met on Sunday.

Posted by: Bea | Dec 12 2006 2:49 utc | 13

bea:
That is good news about Iran’s aide to the Palestinians! I hope that it comes to pass and that the elected government in Palestine is able to weather the storm conjured up by the US/Israeli Axis against it.
I have been thinking about aid to the Palestinians. I’m sure it’s illegal in the US now. Such “aid” to Israel is tax-deductible of course.
How about a campaign of Americans, although not exclusively Americans for the EU has been dragged, not notably kicking and screaming, into the blocka(i)de of Palestine, to contribute $1 each, or 1 euro each, to the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank?
Every one could afford such a contribution.
Millions would be able to contribute.
It must be emphasized that the money is to go for food for babies, for electricity to raise water, for all the basic human needs that the inhuman governments of Israel, the United States of America, and in the EU countries are, righteously in genocidal lockstep, trying to deny the Palestinian people.
They will have to put us all in jail.

Posted by: John Francis Lee | Dec 12 2006 3:11 utc | 14

Palestinian Forces Deploy After Killings

President Mahmoud Abbas ordered security forces to deploy across Gaza on Tuesday after the killing of three young sons of one of his loyalists shocked Palestinians and stoked fears of internal strife.
Tension between the moderate Abbas and the governing Hamas Islamist group soared after the attack by unidentified gunmen on Monday. The three children of a senior intelligence chief were shot dead as they arrived at school.
Early on Tuesday, heavily-armed members of those security forces that take their orders from Abbas took up positions around key installations and road junctions in Gaza City.
“Palestinian security forces deployed in all streets of Gaza City to prevent crime. This was upon orders from President Abbas,” said one Palestinian security source.
A force loyal to the Hamas government also strengthened its positions. There was no immediate sign of friction between the Abbas and Hamas loyalists, but fear of fresh clashes deepened sharply on Monday.

Posted by: b | Dec 12 2006 7:18 utc | 15

bea 12,13 incredible. thank you for the news

Posted by: annie | Dec 12 2006 7:56 utc | 16

Rival forces trade gunfire in Gaza

Palestinian security forces loyal to Mahmoud Abbas have exchanged gunfire with policeman loyal to the ruling party, Hamas, after the president’s decision to deploy his Fatah forces in Gaza.
Hospital officials said two members of Fatah’s security forces had been wounded in the clashes, one seriously, in the southern Gaza town of Khan Younis.
A spokesman for Hamas’s police force said two of their men had been wounded, one critically.
Each side accused the other of starting the gunfight. The Hamas spokesman said members of Abbas’s forces had been protesting and attacking public buildings.

The modus operandi of the murder of those kids reminds me on the bombing of the Samarra mosque in Iraq that really started the civil war there.
Was it the same folks who set this up?

Posted by: b | Dec 12 2006 12:31 utc | 17

You know, over on Atrios this morning, some people were pissing and moaning over the Iranian conference re: the Holocaust. I simply asked what do they know about the history of the Palestinians, of Irgun, of the Stern Gang? Then came the massive pile on, the name-calling, etc.
What is it going to take to educate “progressive” Americans about these issues?

Posted by: anon | Dec 12 2006 16:16 utc | 18

Anon, they don’t want to be educated, they want x box.
A couple of weeks ago, watching news clips of Americans trampling and beating other Americans in stores trying to buy the latest popular trinkets and toys, I was hit (again) with a deep, disillusioned depression. Why didn’t we see this kind of thing happen at polling places two weeks earlier, with Americans fighting each other to vote? I guess it’s because we value the latest video game more than the activity of democracy and self-government.
I could see little difference between these store rioters and fourth-worlders bum-rushing the UN truck when it pulls up with water and powdered milk. Except that the Americans tend to be obese and white, the fourth-worlders skinny and black.
It seems like, to Americans, this government stuff is just a bother, an inconvenience that some (but not all) of us tolerate every couple of years. The only reason most of us show up to vote is that election campaigns have become beauty pageants or survival games just like on “reality TV”.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 12 2006 16:25 utc | 19

True dat, Uncle. I’ve been working all morning but the thread’s still going, and I just noticed a discussion was sparked, at least. But yeah, these “progressive” are consumers first, citizens second.

Posted by: anon | Dec 12 2006 16:43 utc | 20

Was it the same folks who set this up?
why not?deliberate, proficient strategy of tension.
anon, can you provide a permalink?

Posted by: annie | Dec 12 2006 17:07 utc | 21

@Annie
your #21 comment reminded me of..
The Strategy of Tension
(Italian; “strategia della tensione”) is a way to control and manipulate public opinion using propaganda, disinformation, psychological warfare, agents provocateurs and terror. Coined in Italy during the trials of the 1970s and 1980s terror attacks and murders committed by neofascist terrorists backed by deviated intelligence agencies or NATO’s secret stay-behind networks (“Gladio”). Other examples include Operation Condor in South America and events in Algeria during the 1990s.
Sound familiar ?

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 12 2006 17:21 utc | 22

yes, of course uncle, i was too lazy to link!
he acknowledged being paid by the SISMI in 1980 for “risk assessment”. The SISMI secret services, along with P2 and Gladio, were involved in Italy’s strategy of tension.
w/SA/ backing Fatah and Iran’s generous contribution towards palestine via hamas it all gets a bit confusing. the tug of war between neocon/IS and bakers plan, SA’s ambassador resigning on the heels of the ISG or was it in relation to the fatah childrens murder? we know the SA king made demands on cheney re palestine. was this israels response to those demands? was the resignation of the ambassador a towel throwing in regards to US not ‘containing’ IS? or was it soley in response to iraq/iran/sunni/shiite affairs?
clearly the timing of a civil war in palestine although fermented for awhile is stepped up by this assassination (the murder of the father would have never have resonated as much as these children). by US requests of israel seeminly backing off what ways can they guarentee there will be no resolution? SA is pissed and rightfully so.

Posted by: annie | Dec 12 2006 18:11 utc | 23

Heya Annie, here’s link to the Atrios comments. My first comment comes at 9:13.

Posted by: anon | Dec 12 2006 18:54 utc | 24

Bernhard, is it permissible to crosspost your analysis to daily kos? You have say it in a nutshell.

Posted by: mattes | Dec 12 2006 19:54 utc | 25

I think the conference wasn’t such a bad idea. The vast majority of clowns in ME believe Holocaust never happened. It’s good that this come to the surface.

Posted by: jj | Dec 12 2006 20:06 utc | 26

The vast majority of clowns in ME believe Holocaust never happened.
oh come on jj, you don’t really think this do you? knowing what i do about who writes history i wonder what parts got altered. of course this could be an instance of everything being exactly as they say, but why not be realistic? nonetheless, we will never know the whole truth. but a vast majority? maybe i’m just clueless once again.

Posted by: annie | Dec 12 2006 22:34 utc | 27

anon, thanks. that link reminds me why i should never go to atrios comment section, what a total waste of time. just a big chat room w/rare instances of any thing of value. i got as far as the FOAD comment and then gave up…

Posted by: annie | Dec 12 2006 22:37 utc | 28

The vast majority of clowns in ME believe Holocaust never happened.
That’s not remotely true, unless you are speaking only of genuine circus clowns, in which case I wouldn’t know and there aren’t enough of them in the Middle East to matter anyway. ~Smile~ And if you are deliberately referring pejoratively to all Arabs and Muslims in the entire region as “clowns,” well, then, I would respectfully ask you to reconsider and rephrase.

Posted by: Bea | Dec 12 2006 22:46 utc | 29

knowing what i do about who writes history i wonder what parts got altered
So we can’t believe history. The more widely something is believed the less likely it is to be true. The fact there are many, many facts about the Holocaust that are almost universally shared by historians means we shouldn’t believe it because??
Who DOES write history? Many different people. Most of the historians I know are not in the least bit sinister.

Posted by: ozma | Dec 13 2006 6:43 utc | 30

anon- on the other hand, it seems to me it’s as sick to deny the holocaust as it is to deny what is happening to the Palestinians.
anytime I make a comment on here about Israel, Palestine and their neighbors accepting one another’s rights to exist, someone comes along and says that Israel will be destroyed, wiped off the face of the earth, it’s full of vermin, etc. etc.
So, that’s okay, apparently.
Personally, I find it disgusting that Iran is hosting this event with David Duke in attendance. However you parse Ahmadinejad’s words, the fact is that he is hosting people who are truly sick fucks — who are embarrassments to humankind.
Ahmadinejad’s claim that what he’s doing is the equivalent of the Danish cartoon issue is also a bit too coy.
Religious belief…oh, excuse me, religious fact that Mohammed flew to heaven on a horse, just like the world was created in 7 days, is not the same as revisionism in relation to history that was documented by those who were in and who liberated the concentration camps…by Polish ppl who admitted they knew about the cremations… by the eyewitness accounts from soldiers from Russia and Britain and the U.S.
I just wonder if some fundie Christian wanted to kill Jesus’ General for his blog if ppl here would engage in the same apologies.
this alliance with nutcases makes Ahmadinejad look like Karl Rove playing up to the fundies to whip up votes with gay marriage…while all the time knowing he will not do one thing to satisfy that hatred of gays.
How sad for the Palestinians that these ppl are using them — I find it hard to believe that David Duke cares about “brown ppl” anymore than he cares about blacks or jews.
Here are the Holocaust cartoons, btw. Not all of them are denials, but some are. One explicitly refers to Holocaust denier Faurisson.
While I understand the attempt to compare the Palestinians to the European Jews, denying the Holocaust has nothing to do with such a comparison.
And it has even less to do with seeing some justice for the Palestinians.

Posted by: fauxreal | Dec 13 2006 7:35 utc | 31

fauxreal, my point was why do Americans know everything about the Holocaust and *nothing* about al-Nakba? Why don’t they know anything about the Stern Gang and its attempts to collaborate with Nazi Germany DURING the Holocaust? Why don’t they know how Irgun began the very cycle of terrorism we see today? What caused me to comment was a report on BBC’s The World in which a young Palestinian (who had been in the US for university) was exposed for the *first* time to the Holocaust through a college class (because the Arab high school textbooks don’t mention it), and was deeply moved. He said something along the lines of “if only we knew about this, and they knew about *our* suffering” (which the Israeli high school texts of course don’t mention), they could really talk peace and solve this terrible problem. So. I don’t deny the Holocaust, and don’t endorse the views who do. However, it does serve as an method of obscuring the very real CURRENT suffering of the Palestinians when Israelis scream HOLOCAUST HOLOCAUST whenever they are criticized.

Posted by: anon | Dec 13 2006 14:35 utc | 32

anon:
I agree with you on two points.
One the attempted destruction of the Jewish nation in Europe has been used to justify the attempted destruction of the Palestinian nation in the Middle East. Perhaps not to justify it, but to “explain” it.
But to “explain” it to whom? All of us on the outside, and I mean those of us who are not Jews, assume the Holocaust is always brought up to beat us over the head. To proclaim the guilt of all Christians, of all non-Jewish heirs of western civilization, with respect to the Holocaust. As all Jews used to be branded with the murder of Christ in more pervasively “Christian” times.
Recently it has ocurred to me that while that is perhaps a welcome side effect to the hard-core far-right-wing Zionists, and one whose benefits are accepted as well by all other Jews they can intimidate, the real target of the Holocaust remembrance machine is in fact Jews themselves.
How does it feel to be an American and to read of the outrageous war crimes committed by Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan every day? How must it feel to not just read about such war crimes but to see them happening close be, within tens of kilometers of where you live? To live on land buldozed from beneath the rightful owners just months before?
To carry out the zionist program requires some strong medicine to be passed among the zionists themselves to forge coherence, and the conviction that everyone in the world hates you, is trying to “push you into the sea”, is a very strong ingredient in that medicine.
The fact that it would be laughable to imagine that the Palestinians could push anyone into the sea from under the bootheels of the Israelis, if laughing were in anyway appropriate concerning anything in the Middle East, has no bearing on the matter. Skinheads in America tell themselves stories of their victimization at the hands of blacks in much the same fashion.
I also agree with your second point, that we all of us have much more in common with one another than not, and that it is the greed of those who “lead” us that brings these divisive issues and strategies to the fore, to be used to accomplish their greedy aims. That if we could all agree that our governments, all of them, are a part of the problem, that we ourselves are the only solution, then we could move forward.

Posted by: John Francis Lee | Dec 13 2006 15:33 utc | 33

“That if we could all agree that our governments, all of them, are a part of the problem, that we ourselves are the only solution, then we could move forward.”
Ain’t that the truth. We (the ‘west’) are not the good guys any more than the poor sods like us in _____________ are the black hats. They, like we, are dragged down any garden path our “leaders” see fit.
My neighbour and I were talking about Iran and I told him he’s buying into all the same claptrap spouted pre-Iraq. Israel is of course mentioned – “look what we did to them” as justification for Israel’s behaviour.
What? Um, my friend neither of us were born back then and if I was around at all, I was bouncing around in Dad’s scrotum as he bounced through Holland dodging the Hitler Jugend.
Past predation of a people does not grant license to said people to do unto others as was done to them.

Posted by: gmac | Dec 13 2006 16:42 utc | 34

Gunmen kill Hamas-linked judge

A prominent Islamic judge linked to Hamas was today shot dead by Palestinian gunmen as he arrived at court in the Gaza Strip.

1. How do they know it was Palestinians given that it was a drive-by shooting?
2. Why would Palestinians, as opposed to Israelis, shoot HAMAS?

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 13 2006 19:13 utc | 35

Staying in a hotel and watching CNN. For the first time they seem interested in the death of a Palestinian child. When they can spin it a certain way, civil war, or to try to show how the Palestinians are so brutal they kill their own children, they repeat it over and over again. How many other Palestinian children have died by IDF hands without a word.

Posted by: ww | Dec 13 2006 19:37 utc | 36

Thanks for the post b. Palestine is starting to look like Iraq. And Palestine was a model for Iraq, too. Unavowed.
Chaos. Civil war. Crazed Muslims. People who are not people, murderous, suicidal, animals. Animals. To be gotten rid of, dregs, dangers to all – It just has to accepted, some humans deserve being shot, bombed, starved, their children bloody bits on the pavement. Tough. Who would have thought? So sad, people so primitive, so uncontrollable, in the grip of fantasies and absolutly delusional religion…what can one do? The right to self defense is inalterable, the good of all is at stake!

Posted by: Noirette | Dec 13 2006 20:07 utc | 37

Israel vows to confiscate funds from PM Haniya; closes Rafah crossing to prevent his return to Gaza

Israel ordered the closing of the Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt to prevent Haniya from bringing in “tens of millions of dollars” after a tour of Arab states and Iran, a security source told said.
“Defence Minister Amir Peretz ordered the closing of the Rafah crossing in order to prevent tens of millions of dollars from entering Gaza together with Haniya,” the source said on condition of anonymity.
“Peretz made the decision and instructed the closing of the crossing in coordination with all the relevant bodies,” he said.
Another senior Israeli official told said that “we won’t prevent Haniya from entering Gaza, but the money, which will be used to finance terrorism, will not reach Gaza.”

Posted by: Bea | Dec 14 2006 17:24 utc | 38

Palestine is starting to look like Iraq.
interesting, i was beginning to think iraq was starting to look like palestine.

Posted by: annie | Dec 14 2006 17:41 utc | 39

knowing what i do about who writes history i wonder what parts got altered
So we can’t believe history. The more widely something is believed the less likely it is to be true. The fact there are many, many facts about the Holocaust that are almost universally shared by historians means we shouldn’t believe it because??

in no way do i agree w/your statement. that is certainly not my point of view at all. i do not think we shouldn’t believe the vast majority of facts shared by historians nor was that my point. the holocaust, more than any historical data i can recall has been carefully coddled and ushered into its ‘rightful’ place as the most henious crime against any people. the details and horror far outweigh any other atrocious incidents we as a collective society are familiar with. think about the constant reference to the genocide of american indians in dialoge, hollywood keeping fresh in ourminds how we settled this land. every schoolchild knows the build up to the events at hiroshima. or not? all i am saying is the holocaust is used in present day as icon for genocide and injustice and the jews are permanently labeled as a people who have suffered from constant oppression thruout history above and beyond all others. why? we have a museum at the smithsonian dedicated to native americans culture. tell me, what are he chances we will have a museum dedicated soley to their genocide? my point in this is not at all to demean what happened at the holocaust, i thought the holocaust museum was superb. everything about the experience (the lighting especially) gives one a sense of the horror and immensity of the crime. it is not a section of the museum. imagine a musuem somewhere that dedicated itself soley to genocide thruout history and represented the holocaust along side the others in its place in history.. in the US? in europe? i doubt that would be promoted. ok, back to my original statement. take a movie like schindlers list, an excellent movie (i made my son watch it when he was just a boy). that movie was based on fact, i am not denying that. but still does anyone here think it was exactly what happened? might you wonder what facts became altered? or are we to believe the holocaust stands alone in history as the one and only event that is recorded to be exact?
it is a very neat package, too neat for my taste. i stipulate there could be some ugly truths or conditions not included or perhaps not magnified proportionatley that may lend us to a greater understanding of how this atrocity took place or came to be.
The more widely something is believed the less likely it is to be true
don’t try to paint me into some stupid corner.

Posted by: annie | Dec 14 2006 18:42 utc | 40

Only Israel could get away with blocking money in this fashion. The Palestinians, starving, unemployed, beaten, taunted, murdered and toyed with.
It’s like the Israelis purposely churn them back and forth until something explodes outward at them. Then they wonder why.
Redeploy our Troops to Israel. Take their nukes. Disarm them. Then leave.

Posted by: Fade | Dec 14 2006 18:45 utc | 41

another thing. what kind of conditions need to exist in a society for people to accept or promote genocide? what complicities are hidden carefully out of site of the mainstream meme? what we know all too well is the events occurring once the was genocide was in full swing. what is downplayed is who/why. these are the aspects of history we can take lessons from as we march down out merry path into future genocides. this is what i predominently see in the messages of the cartoons. there is a blindness in israel/US that is promoted to further the palestinian program, the zionist march. is the holocaust being used as a platform in which to justify abuse? to understand genocide we need to be willing to look at those who profit from it and give them their rightful place in history. we also need to look further at how a society could be either so blind or so willing to acquiesce, what forces made them willing. who are masters of propaganda/mind control? who can take words and terms like anti zionist (which could be interpretted to mean anti racist) and make it synonymous w/anti semite? this is absurd. we are being manipulated as a society to condone genocide and the holocaust is vey much used as a crutch to usher us blindly along this path. i don’t think silencing anyone from asking these questions is helpful. i think examining the holocaust from all sides past, present and future (because it is very much kept alive) is important and needed. either we let it become part of the past or we except is usage in our future, because it IS being used. i see an appropriatness about a cartoon w/a tank leaving tracks of nazi symbols in its wake. Israels fears of being extinguished have justified its policies of not compromising. they cannot be allowed to completely reject fluidity in their concepts. to move forward we must ask them to open their eyes to their/our collective concepts. jimmy carter was right, this is totally taboo. the stigmatism of being accused as anti semite (especially for jews) as been overwhelming used to keep dialogue about the holocaust aimed in only one direction. to question the official meme is not always to deny the existence of events/facts that did occur but the label’denial’to stiffle thought to look further into the entire picture and how it effects us today.
in what way was the holocaust used by the PTB in insert themselves in the ME? c’mon, really what is so abhorent about asking why a jewish state wasn’t set up in europe? this is met w/a collective scream. it would have been safer there no doubt. oh, nobody can ask anything yet we have to continually hear about the holocaust.

Posted by: annie | Dec 14 2006 19:50 utc | 42

@John – 33 – One the attempted destruction of the Jewish nation in Europe has been used to justify the attempted destruction of the Palestinian nation in the Middle East. Perhaps not to justify it, but to “explain” it.
There never was a “Jewish Nation” in Europe. During WWI jews fought on the side of their native nations, Germany, France etc. The “Jewish nation” is a construct of Zionism. It is the opposite of any secularism. Religion defining a nation – why would anybody ever support such?

On the over-emphazising of the Holocaust – this has been intensivly done (and is in parts still going on) – some years ago it was claimed that 6 million died in Auschwitz alone – there were billboards claiming that at Auschwitz – that is down to 1-2 million by now – wondering where that number will end.
During wwII there were at least some 20 million dead through violence, more died in the consequences – Stalinist death camps (civilians and pows)- mass deportation of “germans” who for centuries lived there without being german from several parts of eastern europe – I don’t know how many jews or whatever specific class died.
What I do know is the existence of an idiology and state policy of killing people of a specific religion and of killing people of a specific sexual preference and of killing people of a specific mental capacity and of killing people of a specific nomadic behaviour (roma) and and and … – this policy, and here is the big difference to other genocides, was done in a profitable, industrial way. It was the capitalisation of/on genocide that makes the holocaust and the other contemporate genocides of wwII a (so far) singular event.

Posted by: b | Dec 14 2006 19:59 utc | 43

It was the capitalisation of/on genocide that makes the holocaust and the other contemporate genocides of wwII a (so far) singular event.
absolutely, and possibly the single most determining factor in future genocides. lets just hope iraq is not heading in that direction but all evidence leads one to think it may be the next in line in this catagory.
notice how the oil as justification for the war is practicably absent from acceptable right wing blather.
Religion defining a nation – why would anybody ever support such?
ask the neocons, this is the plan for the new middle east.

Posted by: annie | Dec 14 2006 20:06 utc | 44

Murder in context? Indeed…
Boston Air Traffic Controller Says 9/11 An Inside Job

This is the reason why, as Hordon stated, that we don’t have complete access to flight data recorders and FAA tapes, which in the case of a conversation between six New York Air Route Traffic Control Center controllers was ordered to be shredded, because if studies of that evidence were undertaken it would become very clear as to who was really behind the attack.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 14 2006 20:17 utc | 45

Click Click Boom
And the Merrygoround goes on..
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16203619/

Posted by: Fade | Dec 14 2006 20:26 utc | 46

@Fade
Hamas militants storm border after PM barred

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 14 2006 20:41 utc | 47

excellent recording on #45 uncle, espeacially the end .

Posted by: annie | Dec 14 2006 23:01 utc | 48

fade :
Only Israel could get away with blocking money in this fashion. The Palestinians, starving, unemployed, beaten, taunted, murdered and toyed with.
It’s like the Israelis purposely churn them back and forth until something explodes outward at them. Then they wonder why.

They don’t “wonder why”, except out loud, before the cameras… just before the f-16s show up, followed by the apaches, and then by the armored cats, followed by the settlers from brooklyn.
Can you remember Ariel (what a name for him! opposite in every respect, prescient Israeli propaganda) Sharon purposefully opening the present intafada with his storm troopers at the the Al Aqsa mosque?

Posted by: John Francis Lee | Dec 14 2006 23:28 utc | 49

Religion defining a nation – why would anybody ever support such?
ask the neocons, this is the plan for the new middle east.

Exactly, and did it not occur to you that this is a way of killing two birds with one stone — destroying Arab nationalism (and its potential to overwhelm Israel if it ever could have gotten its act together — if only by virtue of numbers) AND legitimizing the existential concept of a state whose identity is religiously based. A concept that really, in all honesty, was virtually extinct until Zionism revived it, wasn’t it? Or am I missing something? Only here is the hitch – it can potentially backfire Big Time because if Iraq does in fact splinter apart, what could potentially emerge is what Iran apparently wants — a monolithic, fundamentalist Shiite crescent that arcs across multiple nations in the present Middle East. This is something that the neocons seem not to have grasped, seeing as they understood absolutely nothing about Islam in general or the Shiite sect of it in particular.

Posted by: Bea | Dec 14 2006 23:54 utc | 50

b:
There never was a “Jewish Nation” in Europe. During WWI jews fought on the side of their native nations, Germany, France etc. The “Jewish nation” is a construct of Zionism. It is the opposite of any secularism. Religion defining a nation – why would anybody ever support such?
I didn’t use your capital ‘N’ because I was referring to a nation without borders, as in the the Sioux nation, or the Akha nation. Merriam Webster says : a tribe or federation of tribes (as of American Indians). I would say a group of people of real or imagined common genesis with a shared consciousness of same. Like the Palestinian nation. Which doesn’t “exist” either.
I understand that in Israel the Jewish Clerics have a very strong role politically, as well as religiously, and that the two are confounded.
The Clerics decree who is “a Jew” and who is not, based on matrilineal inheritance.
And that in turn defines who is an Israeli.
I don’t know if the Clerics have yet specified the requisite content of mitochondrial DNA.
So it is an unusual mixture of racist pseudo-science and religion that is the construct of Zionism on which the Jewish Nation is erected.

Posted by: John Francis Lee | Dec 14 2006 23:54 utc | 51

It’s like the Israelis purposely churn them back and forth until something explodes outward at them. Then they wonder why.
Exactly, except they don’t “wonder why,” they scream “See–they want to destroy us!!!!” and then they use this to justify any and all measures they wish to take against the Palestinians. And the cycle just repeats itself and repeats itself ad nauseum, with ever more higher costs in human life and lost potential with each tragic round.

Posted by: Bea | Dec 14 2006 23:58 utc | 52

The Recognition Trap

A statement saying that Hamas recognised Israel would do much more than meet Israel’s precondition for talks; it would mean that Hamas had walked into the same trap that was set earlier for Arafat and Fatah. That trap is designed to ensure that any peaceful solution to the conflict is impossible.
It achieves this end in two ways.
First, as has already been understood, at least by those paying attention, Hamas’ recognition of Israel’s “right to exist” would effectively signify that the Palestinian government was publicly abandoning its own goal of struggling to create a viable Palestinian state.
That is because Israel refuses to demarcate its own future borders, leaving it an open question what it considers to be the extent of “its existence” it is demanding Hamas recognise. We do know that no one in the Israeli leadership is talking about a return to Israel’s borders that existed before the 1967 war, or probably anything close to it.
The second element to the trap is far less well understood. It explains the strange formulation of words Israel uses in making its demand of Hamas. Israel does not ask it simply to “recognise Israel”, but to “recognise Israel’s right to exist”. The difference is not a just matter of semantics.
The concept of a state having any rights is not only strange but alien to international law. People have rights, not states. And that is precisely the point: when Israel demands that its “right to exist” be recognised, the subtext is that we are not speaking of recognition of Israel as a normal nation state but as the state of a specific people, the Jews.
In demanding recognition of its right to exist, Israel is ensuring that the Palestinians agree to Israel’s character being set in stone as an exclusivist Jewish state, one that privileges the rights of Jews over all other ethnic, religious and national groups inside the same territory. The question of what such a state entails is largely glossed over both by Israel and the West.

An insightful examination of Hamas’ refusal to accept “Israel’s right to exist.”

Posted by: John Francis Lee | Dec 15 2006 4:20 utc | 53