Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 8, 2006
Apples From China

The market at the corner now has apples from China. Not any special variant, just normal Golden Delicious, but from China.

Why mention that?

A typical bicycle tour here is down to the river and then across by ferry. Some 20 minutes ride after that, one is in the middle of Europes biggest connected fruit growing area, Altes Land. There are some 700,000 acres of plantation, most of them with apple trees.

If you zoom into this picture you can see row over row over row of apple trees.

The local organic farmer market sells some 20 variants of apples. Average shops have five or so variants available, usually all from Germany. It is the cheepest fruit around.

So why sell apples from China?

Comments

answer: chinese slave labor.
any more simple questions?

Posted by: slothrop | Dec 8 2006 18:03 utc | 1

jesus. can you imagine what migrant labor life must be like in china?

Posted by: slothrop | Dec 8 2006 18:07 utc | 2

A Monstrous Class of Parasites
Somewhere a Banker Smiles
Joe Bageant

It’s hard as hell to keep conspiracy theories out of one’s mind these days. And I’m not talking about “Who really brought down the Twin Towers? or the “Are Zionists behind the Iraq War?” kind of stuff. Both camps are pretty clearly dug in into their hardened bunkers on those issues. But the booger stalking my ragged old mind these days puts both of those in the shade because of its sheer scale. And it runs like this:
Is the consumerist totalization of this country and the world really a conscious plot by a handful of powerful corporate and financial masters? If we answer “yes” we find ourselves trundled off toward the babbling ranks of the paranoid. Still though, it’s easy enough to name those who would piss themselves with joy over the prospect of a One World corporate state, with billions of people begging to work for their 1,500 calories a day and an xBox chip in their necks. It’s too bad our news media quit hunting with live ammo decades ago, leaving us with no one to track the activities and progress of what sure as hell seem to be global elites, judging from the financial spoor we find along every pathway of modern life. …

Also, you will be assimilated:
Weapons for the ‘New American Century’
Check out the list of ‘nice’ weapons at the end of this article.
Make no mistake about it: The Pentagon will use whatever weapons it has at its disposal. Are you ready for a future of Moscows?

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 8 2006 18:36 utc | 3

@sloth – the apples from China were not the cheepest ones in that shop.

Posted by: b | Dec 8 2006 18:53 utc | 4

@uncle (3) – could you please use ot for ot?

Posted by: b | Dec 8 2006 18:56 utc | 5

maybe china has made a deal to import its fruit and someone is selling it for the “exotic” appeal…and it’s being sold for more b/c it’s an import?
…and the local orchards keep their prices lower to keep China from taking over their market share?
am I close?

Posted by: fauxreal | Dec 8 2006 19:16 utc | 6

anyone know if apples from China grow during the same season as Europe’s ?

Posted by: jony_b_cool | Dec 8 2006 19:47 utc | 7

b –
Do they taste particularly good? Is there a demand for Golden Delicious apples that cannot be met locally?
A prosaic explanation would be filling shipping holds in both directions. Takes lots of apples to pay for German engines But that would not explain the small premium in price at the market. Doesn’t sound like the the classic theoretical model of trade, does it?
Germany seems to be one of China’s largest trading partners, the trade is growing, and with a relatively small deficit. Can’t find current stats.
Query: Is there any country with which China has a trade deficit?

Posted by: small coke | Dec 8 2006 20:09 utc | 8

The apples are from China’s northwestern province of Shaanxi. Shaanxi is a mainly agricultural province, and is famous as the base of Mao’s communist party in the period before and during WWII before the founding of the People’s Republic in 1949.
The Shaanxi provincial government is helping Shaanxi apple farmers to introduce their products to European consumers beginning this year. The apples you have seen and maybe tasted are part of this test marketing to Europeans, who are considered to be the most knowledgeable and demanding when it comes to eating apples.
The objective of this exercise is also to get feedback to improve future shipments of apples to Europe, and later North America and Japan. I believe that the apples come a little later in the season than European apples; this gives Chinese apples a seasonal advantage.
Did you notice that some flowers being shipped to Europe are coming from China too? You can expect to see many more Chinese flowers to Europe (mostly shipped to Italy); these come from the southwest Chinese province of Yunnan.

Posted by: Paul Denlinger | Dec 8 2006 20:16 utc | 9

This is TypePad Support testing your comments. Please feel free to delete this.

Posted by: Kymberlie R. McGuire | Dec 8 2006 20:26 utc | 10

China is expected to start mass exports of cheap cars soon. This could make todays trade deficits look like lunch money.

Posted by: jony_b_cool | Dec 8 2006 20:28 utc | 11

eurozone/chinese trade deficit is pushing €200 billion. that’s a lot.

Posted by: slothrop | Dec 8 2006 20:29 utc | 12

What a shame! Most of the supermarket-variety apples available in the US (Red and Golden Delicious, Gala, Granny Smith, etc.) have been industrialized to shp well that there is little flavor. It’s like eating wet sawdust.
When I’m able to treat a visitor to one of the tree-ripened heirloom varieties growing on my property, you can see their eyes widen on the first bite. Apples can be wonderfully tasty with complex flavors–if you don’t buy them in the supermarket.
I can’t imagine that the Chinese apples are anything but the bred-to-ship variety.
…and don’t get me started on supermarket tomatoes!

Posted by: cpg | Dec 8 2006 20:45 utc | 13

Chinese companies are starting to buy North American and European assets so that they can become more efficient manufacturers, and to build relationships with their markets. This is starting with component makers, but it will move up the chain in coming years.
An important rule of economics is that if your current account deficit is larger than your GDP over a sustained period, you eventually end up having to sell off your assets.

Posted by: Paul Denlinger | Dec 8 2006 20:49 utc | 14

An important rule of economics is that if your current account deficit is larger than your GDP over a sustained period, you eventually end up having to sell off your assets.
cough

Posted by: annie | Dec 8 2006 20:55 utc | 15

I agree, today’s apples are tasteless and dry.
My favourite memory of eating apples was robbing and eating them from the local orchard.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Dec 8 2006 21:02 utc | 16

@uncle (3) – could you please use ot for ot?
Uh, if you had read the goddamned article b, you would have seen that it was on topic.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 8 2006 21:16 utc | 17

For those in the USA, have a look at
Sustainable Agriculture
There is no reason that the US needs to import foodstuffs for domestic consumption–and doing so merely makes the imbalance of payments more lopsided.
Please consider teaming up with a local CSA farmer near you. In my experience, the food’s good and always fresh and very competitive with the supermarket in pricing.
It’s good for the balance of payments and good for the planet.

Posted by: cpg | Dec 8 2006 21:41 utc | 18

@cpg #13:
My wife, from Indonesia, commented that all American fruit is really big, but tastes flat. When she tasted an orange grown in my parents’ yard she was astounded!

Posted by: Dr. Wellington Yueh | Dec 8 2006 22:14 utc | 19

cloned
no there is no better taste than that expropriated in the name of the people

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Dec 8 2006 22:38 utc | 20

if you had read the goddamned article ouch! you would have seen that it was on topic.
i’m assuming the reference was to the ‘
you will be assimilated:‘ piece, which could be seen as straggling away from the main topic of the thread.
but then understanding how you view things uncle a link of new weapons on any thread might seem appropriate. ;O

Posted by: Anonymous | Dec 8 2006 23:27 utc | 21

me. sorry

Posted by: annie | Dec 8 2006 23:29 utc | 22

from US’s first link:
Meanwhile, the money for both is obtained through extraction practiced upon the world’s laboring poor. But the big money, the “juice” as street people used to say, comes from squeezing the orange of American society for more work, more production and tax money.
apples? oranges?

Posted by: dk | Dec 8 2006 23:37 utc | 23

We have lots of Chinese apples here in Thailand now too. Pretty lame. Delicious are “apples of the eye”. They’ve never been tasty in my opinon.
After the King and his mother spent years trying to wean the “hill tribes” from opium cultivation by introducing temperate fruits and vegetables the last neoliberal/organized criminal regime here undercut it all with a bilateral trade agreement that involved repositioning a Chinese satellite to the benefit of the Mobster in Chief. Or so he thought.
The Dragon’s metamorphosis
A neoliberal take on China or How To Stop Worrying and Love The… Apple and Oranges of Chinese Democracy?

Posted by: John Francis Lee | Dec 9 2006 0:32 utc | 24

Apple Day, 21 Oct 06.
Apples are good because you can mash them up and drink them. Also, pears – in one of the pix in the link above there’s reference to a perry (like cider but made w/ pears) called Impeared Vision.
Golden Delicious are shite, taste like cotton wool. I never bought them because they used to be flown in from apartheid South Africa. The Chinese are big on genetic modification, have they managed to stop them tasting like crap? That would be a real scientific breakthro’.
Apples are in glut here in the UK at the moment. I have heard tell of people not even being able to get the local farmer to take them for cider-making at the moment. Why the hell roast the planet bussing the things in from Shaanxi when they are plentiful as b says all over?
Cotton wool with a side order of climate destruction.
Fucking brilliant.

Posted by: Dismal Science | Dec 9 2006 1:48 utc | 25

Canada exports about the same tonnage of apples to the US as the US does to Canada. Go figure.
all these aberrations are side effects of “cheap” fossil fuel and may — deo volens — be corrected soon. but soon enough? I dunno.

Posted by: DeAnander | Dec 9 2006 1:57 utc | 26

will watch for chinese apples in nueva york. since it is apple season in the northeast it seems foolhardy to be importing apples from china, but sadly it wouldn’t be the only foolhardy thing we do the planet.
me, i hike to the green market every weekend and buy absolutely scrumptious granny smiths and then eat them all week hoping that there is some veracity to the the old adage.

Posted by: conchita | Dec 9 2006 3:42 utc | 27

The best apples grow on the oldest trees in my brother’s orchard. Health food store carries the 2nd best, even some local varieties.
I remember, in the 60’s, being able to buy Golden Delicious apples with a delicate honey and mild lemon flavor from a tiny green grocery in the middle of Washington D.C. The grocer and the apples disappeared years ago.

Posted by: small coke | Dec 9 2006 3:44 utc | 28

@dk, annie, b, et al…
No, I was thinking along the lines of financial super-elites, Camp Davos, bankers, laboring poor, etc, from Bageant’s article he writes, ” Put another way, the global decision makers, international planners, financial institutions, political parties, media conglomerates, corporations, banks, a hegemonic, accumulative bloc working in concert to coordinate the extraction of wealth from first and third world alike.” Perhaps, –because I see things in a macro paradigm–, the things such as the fading boundries between international markets trade, goods etc, that this was a case of China flexing it’s rising economic fortitude and unity, as well as utility. A formula conveying, here we come, we’re here, and mean to stay sort of thing.
I took somewhat of a cue from slothrop’s first few comments on migrant slave labor etc. And as b says in #4 “…the apples from China were not the cheapest ones in that shop“; I would assume from that, some business conglomerate had gotten them below wholesale e.g. cheap, for a mass quantity and wasn’t worried about loss, as the price was higher than local.
It could very well be a crucial movement in China’s transition to a market economy. As as formerly known in anthropological terms as the nuances of prestige items. Questions of distribution, surplus and disposition of pre-capturing markets. Economic anthropology comprises three major subject areas: production (making goods or money of some sort), consumption (using up goods or expending funds), and exchange (transferring goods or money between people or institutions). The term economic system refers to a particular way of organizing production, distribution, and consumption. Kind of a Potlatch ego thing.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 9 2006 5:06 utc | 29

Why? We folks from the “Altes Land” have our pride too. We are not like those from the “Hinterland”, we are cosmopolitans and we do Chinese apples. 😉
And in the US there is only one apple that tastes still like an apple, Braeburn apples. They are imported, but I don’t know from where.

Posted by: mimi | Dec 9 2006 5:10 utc | 30

p.s. I didn’t mean to come across as so darn persnickerty, it just seemed a curt response from b to my post –seemingly, to me anyway– as I felt it pertained to the topic at hand, and reacted expeditiously.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 9 2006 5:26 utc | 31

When I hear about the industrialization of China and India, I can think only of the following Gandhi quote:
“God forbid that India should ever take to industrialism after the manner of the west… keeping the world in chains. If our nation took to similar economic exploitation, it would strip the world bare like locusts. “
Gandhi didn’t even consider China joining the game. Looks as if we’ll be able to find out if he was right.

Posted by: cpg | Dec 9 2006 5:39 utc | 32

@ mimi
Braeburn apples in the US – from Washington state and New Zealand.

Posted by: small coke | Dec 9 2006 5:47 utc | 33

With the euro above $1.30, why are German apples cheaper than Califorina ones and, I guess, than Chinese ones?

Posted by: Brian Boru | Dec 9 2006 5:58 utc | 34

I hope German apple orchards survive. It’d be Great to see Germans rebel & organize an “Apple Party” – dumping the damn things in the nearest river or compost pile. Scratch compost pile ‘cuz goddess only knows what chemical trash is on them. In Ca. whole regions of apple orchards were driven out of business. In an age of global warming, can anyone give one good reason for expending oil to import apples from some slave labor depot halfway around the globe?
But, alas, even China isn’t slave enough labor for xAm. Predators.
A big reason for the change is rock-bottom wages. As labor shortages in some regions of China drive up costs, factory hands in parts of the mainland can earn more than five times the $55 per month that Vietnamese workers in foreign-owned factories are paid. That differential is a big reason why Sparton Corp. (SPA ) of Jackson, Mich., chose Vietnam over China last year when it made its first investment outside North America. It sank $8 million into a 50,000-square-foot plant to produce chemical diagnostic equipment. “I think productivity and quality will far exceed the U.S.,” says Jason Craft, managing director of Sparton subsidiary Spartronics Vietnam Co.
Hence the House just passed a Predators on the Rampage Destroy America Now “treaty” w/Vietnam, trumpeted by Repug in Dem robes, Ellen Tauscher.VOTE ALERT: House Passes Vietnam Free Trade Agreement

Posted by: jj | Dec 9 2006 10:09 utc | 35

One of my favorite statistics is that in a plate of food on my or your table, for 10 calories of food, 1 calorie comes from sunlight, and 8 from fossil fuels. (I’m leaving one calorie hanging.) And that is excluding cooking.
Slave labor, yes, of course. But here, the main point is the cheapness of transport. Apples do require labor, but not much, so the ‘labor’ margin is just worth it, or as pointed out above, there is some ‘funny stuff’ with the transport.
My favorite example here is US chickens (and chickens of other provenance that enter the US) that are sent to China for ‘conditioning’ (e.g. to make chicken nuggets) and are then sent back to the US!
just the first article from the top of google:
link
The article makes the point that it must be a minor phenomenon, but it is not. I suppose in the US you have to ask, and dig. In CH, for example, where provenance and conditioning must be on the label or on a board for all foodstuffs sold – in 3 languages at least, if you please, it is quite easy to note that we eat lots of stuff conditioned in China.
Paul, so far, the flowers in Switzerland from China are made of plastic and cloth only, as the market has been cornered by Equator, Brazil, other South Am. countries.
This week’s food news, not trivial:
Livestock a major threat to environment
29 November 2006, Rome – “Which causes more greenhouse gas emissions, rearing cattle or driving cars?
Surprise!
According to a new report published by the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization, the livestock sector generates more greenhouse gas emissions as measured in CO2 equivalent – 18 percent – than transport.”
link

Posted by: Noirette | Dec 9 2006 16:38 utc | 36

Many readers may find this hard to believe, but there is a major labor shortage in the eastern coastal provinces, especially in Guangdong, bordering on Hong Kong.
Major buyers such as Wal-Mart are having to raise prices they offer to manufacturers so that they can turn out the products they want to buy. Eventually these price rises will be passed on to US and other buyers around the world.
This is one reason why Chinese officials are interested in developing rural exports, such as flowers from China.
While the wages in China are much lower than in the US, it would be wrong to characterize them as slave wages, because costs (and wages) are roughly one-eighth what they are in the US. In Shanghai, the cost for a FT live-in cook/maid is US$110. And she is not a slave; she can easily save at least half of her wages to send home to her rural family in Anhui (or other province) every month.
That is why quality of living in China is often higher than in the US. On US$2,000 a month you can live very comfortably.

Posted by: Paul Denlinger | Dec 9 2006 18:12 utc | 37

i had never heard of the gravenstien apple until i lived in sonoma county as a college student. the road traveling to from cotati to sebastapol on thru occidental (tom waits lives out there btw)is still called gravenstien highway named after the abundance of apple farms bordering the highway planted most likely by the early russian settlers. today the land is so valuable it is no longer a great apple region because people make more money in housing developement and vineyards.

Posted by: Anonymous | Dec 9 2006 18:24 utc | 38

sheesh, me

Posted by: annie | Dec 9 2006 18:25 utc | 39

Stamen Winesaps. From Billmon’s territory. The best.

Posted by: Bob M. | Dec 9 2006 20:09 utc | 40

Winesaps are good but Northern Spy from western Mass. is the best I’ve ever had.

Posted by: biklett | Dec 9 2006 21:38 utc | 41

Annie, those apple orchards were ripped out & replaced w/vineyards, along w/the ones in the Alexander Valley, ‘cuz of the damn Chinese imports.

Posted by: jj | Dec 9 2006 22:00 utc | 42

what i read of chinese factory workers was they were making $740 a year for 10 hour days (approx. $0.20/hr) with 1 day off per month
technically not a slave, one could argue

Posted by: gmac | Dec 10 2006 10:38 utc | 43

In most of the instances where a Chinese factory worker is paid $740 a year, they are usually given a place to live (dormitory) and meals. This means that they are usually able to save nearly all of their salary.
The mistake most American critics make is thinking what one could buy with $740, which is very little. If you live on that amount in China, and live the way Chinese do though, it is another story.
And the gap in costs of living between the cities in China is huge, meaning that you can make US$20,000 a month and have very little savings, less on a percentage basis than the laborer making $740 a month.
The people who get screwed are the construction workers, because although they get room, board and meals, general contractors often plead that they are not making money on a project. It is not unusual for them to go 1-2 years without salary. Lately, the Chinese government has been cracking down on these developers, and have been throwing some of them into jail.

Posted by: Paul Denlinger | Dec 11 2006 0:02 utc | 44

those apple orchards were ripped out & replaced w/vineyards, along w/the ones in the Alexander Valley, ‘cuz of the damn Chinese imports.
i assume your snarking. they were ripped out becuase someone could make more money on the land. now in germany, i don’t know the proxinity of this area to the vineyards or if the real estate in the adjoining areas is doubling or tripling. but if it is, it may be in the intersts of someone to start introducing apples from china. like people who want to develope the apple region into something else. on the other hand, places like yakima and wenache wa have little chance of becoming hot real estate anytime soon. i doubt there are chinese apples in yakima.

Posted by: annie | Dec 11 2006 1:49 utc | 45

No, Annie – they were ripped out ‘cuz they could not compete w/Chinese apples on the market. Occasionally vineyard make money, but they’re known as one of the fastest ways for rich folks to lose a pile. Vineyards are the au courant way for rich folks to finally feel as sophisticated as the French.

Posted by: jj | Dec 11 2006 1:57 utc | 46

oh, i totally agree w/you about rich folks and vineyards. none the less, there are an abundance of rich folks in the area just dying to have their own little showpiece. i know a few of them. still, the estates go for bundles. so, its true you say? the chinese apples are what drove the gravenstiens out?
i know the property taxes are wild on that land, unless of course one is protected by prop 13 and bought theirs years ago. something tells me that is not the case w/the old apple farms. much better deal for the county taxwise, having those ultra rich trophy vineyards. having a property in the bayarea i am familiar w/the tactics the cities put you old landowners thru if you don’t have a big moneymaker. modest homes don’t bring in the bucks. i wonder who was behind bringing in the china apples? appletime?

Posted by: annie | Dec 11 2006 2:26 utc | 47

John Francis Lee – I learned to value protectionism from Thailand. Not all protectionism, but reasonable protectionism. A lot of what Taksin has done is quite sad. But then you look at the US – and it is obvious things are likely to get much worse here.

Posted by: n | Dec 13 2006 17:02 utc | 48

To be clear: Thailand’s national focus on agriculture really helped the populace (in general) during the financial crisis.

Posted by: n | Dec 13 2006 17:04 utc | 49

Apples from Shaanxi in Germany? About time Shaanxi could export something. Shaanxi is poor and has been poor forever–scorpions, dust, drought, earthquakes (ok not recently, but famously), hunger.
It is unfortunate that they are exporting Golden Delicious. The terrible thing is the locals probably eat delectable, small, glorious, flavorful apples—when they can afford it, when there isn’t a drought—but they are planting horrible cotton-like Golden Delicious for western consumption. Ack. Globalization. But Shannxi, lovely place, nice people, can only rely on agriculture and the domestic market isn’t going to pull them out of misery anytime soon.
Once again, I can only think that someone in Beijing is thinking. This week Beijing announced free rural education. (Ah, the effort they put into stemming popular revolt is really impressive.)

Posted by: sarah | Dec 14 2006 3:37 utc | 50

If you are interested in China’s food exports, you might want to read this post from someone working in China.

Posted by: Paul Denlinger | Dec 24 2006 19:41 utc | 51