Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 28, 2006

Redneck Heaven

Jerome, who had posted here for a while, is holding up the mirror to the Daily Kos crowd.

Is DailyKos a rightwing website? he asks. I recommend to read it - he is pointing out what's wrong with them.

And of course Dkos is right wing when you hold a European center-left position like Jerome does.

Having an even more leftwing (European-scale) position, a lot of DKos' feels like redneck heaven to me.

Posted by b on October 28, 2006 at 03:43 PM | Permalink

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Is DailyKos a rightwing website?
by Jerome a Paris


Aren't you a... right-wing capitalist investment banker living off the labor of others whom you exploit thru your loans?

Nah... I'm a left-wing capitalist investment banker living off the labor of others whom I empower thru my loans!


Oh. I see.

Posted by: John Francis Lee | Oct 28, 2006 4:18:01 PM | 1

Don't know what Jerome is trying to do there at KOS. It's the battle of the "left" in the USA. When after all, the media "left" are the Democrats, who are as right wing as Sarkozy, but LEFT.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Oct 28, 2006 4:27:44 PM | 2

"trusted user"??????
wow
so if u hold unpopular views just beat.
some lefty site.
imho.

Posted by: holy_bazooka | Oct 28, 2006 4:57:19 PM | 3

I think Jerome brings up good supporting points in his rhetorical question of "Is DailyKos a rightwing website?" I agree with Bernhard, yes, from a European, or even Canadian scale position, the place can feel like a redneck heaven*.

That being said, I think it is necessary to place this "text" within the context of his Energize America articles. Most of the obstacles to achieving the goals laid out in this proposal are the points Jerome highlights in his question, "Is DailyKos a rightwing website?"

These points, explain my why I believe there needs to be a major paradigm shift in US culture, before proposals, such as Jerome's to save itself from itself, can even be seriously discussed.

* "Redneck heaven" seems to me to be a misnomer. I think a better term might be "American Counter-Enlightenment", in the sense that these points Jerome questions seem to be more part of a believe in the Romantic period ideas such as the Cult of the Individual, i.e Individual as Hero, so if you're poor it is your own fault, or as Stephen Colbert frequently points out satirzing the Right, Feeling is everything, etc.

Posted by: The Key | Oct 28, 2006 5:46:00 PM | 4

I think Jerome is being deliberately provocative, and as such there is nothing I can say on this subject that will truly be news to him. Nevertheless, I did want to make a couple of observations:

First, there is obviously a huge difference in attitude between the Old and New Worlds when it comes to urban planning. European cities are designed to move people, North American ones are designed to move cars. People like James Howard Kunstler have been railing against the cult of the automobile for years, and these criticisms are now perilously close to being adopted as urban planning orthodoxy even in North America, as the undeniable cost of our car fixation -uncontrolled urban sprawl, "hollowed out" downtown cores, the disappearance of true neighborhoods, mile after mile of ugly cookie cutter tract housing chewing up the countryside, spiralling infrastructure costs- becomes ever more apparent. It's still an uphill fight however, because North Americans have been raised on the belief that you aren't legtimately "middle class" unless you live in a single family detached house in the 'burbs and commute to work (and everywhere else you need to go, because nothing is within walking distance). The point is that it can be very difficult to convince people that an alternative development model is superior because people readily grasp how change will negatively impact their current lifestyles, while the putative benefits are necessarily highly abstract. Human beings by nature are most comfortable with what they already know, and are loath to give it up in the hope that the prize behind door #2 is going to be better.

Second, as far as social policy goes, it's important to understand that Americans are indoctrinated from the craddle to believe that the United States is the forward looking land of hope and opportunity, and that Europe represents backward looking stagnation and decline. In fact, the US is by far the most unequal society in the First World, but Americans are indoctrinated to actually regard this as a virtue that proves the superiority of their society. America you see is a "meritocracy" -by definition, those at the top of the heap deserve to be there because of their hard work and uncommon ability (by extention, being poor in America is proof that you are lazy, uneducated and subpar as a human being). The European impulse toward equality, rather than being laudable, is actually proof that the Europeans are effimate milquetoasts who champion medicocrity over excellence. That's why the world watches Disney movies, eats Macdonalds hamburgers, smokes Marlboros and bows down before the holy, world shaking might of the United States armed forces.

It's true that meritocracy is America is a myth -in the US, as in every other country, by far the best predictor of your socio-economic position is the socio-economic position of your parents. You can see however how such a myth serves to legitimize inequality and rampant elitism while discrediting social reformers. It is as a result a myth that is pervasive and unquestioned among America's elite, and endlessly repeated in ways both subtle and obvious by the instruments of media and pop culture that they dominate.

It is, as a result, also a myth that most Kossacks have deeply internalized, often in spite of their better instincts. Rejecting the ideology that underlies your society's entire self indentity requires extraordinary character and self awareness under any circumstances, and Jerome is perhaps being a bit unfair in suggesting that your average Kossack should be equal to this feat.

Posted by: Lexington | Oct 28, 2006 6:27:27 PM | 5

Heated debate about this within the Family.

Sonny maintained that this was an in-your-face drive-by the alleged head of the Paris Energy Mob.

Don Kos regarded it as a bit of preening and blog-pimping by an upstart wannabee.

And you know who holds the final vote in the Kossack family.

In the interests of peace, it was agreed to send the French miscreant two cans of cat food wrapped in the Washington Post as

THE FINAL WARNING.

Posted by: Lucca Brazzi | Oct 28, 2006 6:34:52 PM | 6

"American Counter-Enlightenment"

Ding ding ding! we have a winning contender, right out of the gate!

Two words, JOHN RAWLS

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Oct 28, 2006 6:40:27 PM | 7

Jerome makes some good points, but Daily Kos has never claimed to be a "left" site, only a Democratic one. And we all know what a yawning difference there is between the two. The kind of left that Jerome thinks of as "the left" has more or less been wiped out in this country -- the right won that particular dialectical showdown. What Kos represents is a new synthesis of old liberals and disaffected libertarian conservatives. Which, for all its many limitations, beats social conservative big gummmit authoritarianism any day of the week, at least in my opinion.

I sometimes get the feeling that many Europeans still don't quite understand just how far down the road the United States has gone towards a one-party state -- and I mean a REAL one-party state, not a Demopublican duopoly. If Jerome is waiting for a "real" left movement to become viable in Amerca, he'd better reconcile himself to a few more decades of right-wing corporate machine rule first.

Personally, I'd be willing to settle for Daily Kos-style left libertarianism, or whatever he calls it. But that's just me.

Posted by: billmon | Oct 28, 2006 7:21:34 PM | 8

lexington

right on.

Posted by: slothrop | Oct 28, 2006 7:55:01 PM | 9

Where's malooga when you need em? grrr....

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Oct 28, 2006 9:03:08 PM | 10

JFL #1 - call the fight, ref, it's a knockout in round one.

Posted by: citizen k | Oct 28, 2006 9:14:18 PM | 11

If the warning don't work, CK, I guess we just got to cut out his tongue.

Posted by: Lucca Brazzi | Oct 28, 2006 9:24:25 PM | 12

In fact, the US is by far the most unequal society in the First World, but Americans are indoctrinated to actually regard this as a virtue that proves the superiority of their society.

That's not really supported by data (the young Galbraith has some interesting papers on this). And anecdotally, for a European "leftist" investment banker to complain about the redneck quality of a US web site, kinda gives the game away, eh?

Sorry sir! Will try to be less vulgar and more leftist in the future.

Posted by: | Oct 28, 2006 9:30:05 PM | 13

slothrop - thanks for the churchill info on other thread

& i'm glad jérôme has in a metaphorical way put the boot in - even if it is gentle & refined

i personally possess no such refinement nor the gentillesse towards a community that far more resembles the libertarian continuance of a bhagwan rajaneesh, guru maharaji & david koresh. they all possess the same spooky smile

& i could never buy the united front idea if it meant allying oneself with degenerate elements of a national bourgeoisie who are forever idealist whether it is good old patrick fitzgerald, this or that senator, this or that congressman & in any case they are a premature ejaculatory mob - with obama, against obala, with obama again & then aginst & this goes on & on whether its harry reid, nancy pelosi her royal highness mme clinton

if it means uniting with that mob i prefer the sad trotskite postman here in france or the revolutionary bank clerk - citizen arlette

two questions are burning in their absence at d kos - class & race

given that kos is himself from el salvador & given the importance of central & latin america to us politics - the absence of any substantial coverage i find obscene

the people of the middle east - appear at dkos only as terrorists-in-the-making or as victims never as holders of all our cultural heritage nor as the link, the imperative link in our destiny(ies)

native americans are dead & gone there in more ways than one

& given that the packs of lawyers that inhabit both dkos & firedogmake - their nonreflexive self satisfaction with a jurisprudence that is rotten to the core, a system of incarceration that is criminal itself in its conception & ana almost televisual belief in good & bad

& frankly i'm tired of their language of perps, of shooters, on & on - i see a lnaguage there that has more in common with a dandified david duke than a eugene debs

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 28, 2006 9:30:11 PM | 14

Well RG,

You and Sloth could start a blog.

Point-Counterpoint:


"Slothrop, You ignorant slut"

ETC.


Actually DKOS is where the American Left is.

Works for me, in the sense of NOT being a perpetual pity party for left lost causes.

Posted by: Izzy S. | Oct 28, 2006 9:50:03 PM | 15

& so it would anonymous if you are far from the terrain where struggle is fought other than inside someone's head

& frankfully, don't come on like some down home lou dobbs - with some sanctified sense of what people - actually do - in their day to day struggle

i have been as open on this forum as it is possible to e - i am a writer, slothrop has never hidden the fact that he is an academic - you on the other hand have only told us of your mexican workers

judgement - i'll accept - even at the crueler hands of a citizen k or an alabama - they speak at least in one name

& i feel you are more angry at yourself than you are with anyone here & i though in any case you had given up on us here - red clique, that we are

& why not once, just once - speak in your own voice

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 28, 2006 9:59:09 PM | 16

& yes at this moment i am more than a little unnerved by a united front that could include that gonnoreah ridden golem blitzer & that imbecile to be dobbs

give me kim jong il or kim il sung or any old kim you can come up with

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 28, 2006 10:03:01 PM | 17

given that kos is himself from el salvador...

Kos does not come from a peasant family... and most Kossacks would be part of the landowning elite in Latin America. Hence the antipathy to Chavez, Morales and anyone else who might stir things too much. Most of us are quite wealthy compared to a Central American worker.

But DKos doesn't hide it centrism. It wants to work within the system, not destroy it. There aren't many good left blogs, probably because there aren't many leftists in the US under 40.

Posted by: folkers | Oct 28, 2006 10:08:31 PM | 18

As far as urban planning is concerned, I'll be blunt: any urban planning that wastes more than 30 seconds considering the car issue is doomed to failure in the next years. Urban planning should be done with the obvious intent of shutting out individual morotised transportation. You live in a city to be in a dense area with many people; if you want an individual car, just go live in the wilderness.
Of course if I wanted to put my real thoughts on the matter, I'd add that planning should definitely aim to put out of business once and for all the whole stupid individual house system, and not stop at ending the individual car one. After all, individual car and individual house are just sides of the same poisonous and nefarious coin that lead our society, species and planet to doom.

"The kind of left that Jerome thinks of as "the left" has more or less been wiped out in this country"
Any country where this happens is just fucking lost to any hope, until either some massive invasion and decade-long occupation by a foreign power shakes the house, or a complete meltdown of the system causes a 1789/1917-wide revolution.
Basically, the whole system is beyond redemption and has to be wiped out for any progress to be made. That's not an entertaining thought, but the cold hard truth. Ask the Russians how wonderfully the adjustment of the Soviet system worked, when it became apparent that the ancient system had become corrupt beyond redemption.
Right now, it also means that a growing number of Western nations are completely and utterly lost. In fact, I'd say France will go that way if one looks at the fakes and other idiots considered to represent "French left / PS" in the next presidential election.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Oct 28, 2006 10:21:46 PM | 19

I frankly do not detect in kos a salient critique of the war. perhaps some of the fine diarists I've not read are more comprehensive wrt the war. I took an hour or so and blasted through all of the iraq stories in the past year, and among the better diarists--armando, georgia, susang, kos--I found nothing except reflexive ridicule of republican "policy." nowhere did I find anything approaching normative discourse. nothing.

also, the issue of class is lacking any accommodation there. rgiap is right it seems from cursory examination.

I don't know what kos offers as "left" politics. I cannot detect a political consciousness there insinuating anything I understand to be "left." there is frequent mindful defense of liberal culture (gay rights and so on) which is admirable. but I don't see what to me are hallmark iussues of the "left": labor solidarity, distributive justice, a critique of ideology, radical feminism, etc.

but I'm not a regular reader of kos.

Posted by: slothrop | Oct 28, 2006 10:34:50 PM | 20

i chose to stay out of this because frankly i am weary of defending dkos. of all the views i have read here, billmon's best expresses mine. jerome brings up some salient points, but the difference is that he is doing it in the spirit of raising awareness, provoking discussion and possibly change. (when i looked earlier there were 750 comments on his diary.) dkos doesn't pretend to be anything but what it is. for me it is a resource. i find topics covered there that don't get discussed here. there are diarists there who do cover the areas jerome finds lacking, but they do not receive community wide attention. in the more or less million registered users there are voices as far left as we find here and others much more centrist, but by and large, imho, the site is representative of the u.s. middle class - self-absorbed and still stuck in front of a television waiting for someone to lead the way. however, one thing that has impressed me is how many kossacks have taken things a step further and run for office on various levels. others have banded together to do significant research, trumping the traditional media with regularity. others organize actions that have for the most part only made me realize how bought and sold our legislative reps are, but they are actions. yet, the bulk of the readers are still stuck in the framework of hoping the traditional media will wake up and remember its purpose. as a result i do not think the changes coming from the site will be earth shattering. but let's face it, the site has become a powerful tool in how center-left politics happens. maybe it is not as progressive as some would like, but it is a place that has made and will continue to make a difference, a small difference and one that is perhaps a continuation of sorts of the past. it does represent a small improvement and for better or, most likely, worse it is gaining mainstream attention and acceptance.

Posted by: conchita | Oct 28, 2006 10:38:13 PM | 21

Other than Billmon and one or two others, where was Kos and the rest of "Left" blogistan vis a vi Lebanon this past summer?

That's right...nowhere.

And why was that, again?

Posted by: Aladdin Sane | Oct 28, 2006 10:52:15 PM | 22

I go by many names.

Just my way.

Doesn't matter much.

The left will take 20-40 years to get back to where it was, if ever, in America.

What 8 years of systemized deconstruction can do-powerful.

What we are left with here is KOS, The Dems, and the Greens(pretty pathetic actors).

The recovery of the US will take 30-40years, if it happens.

Doubt Marxists, Greens, or Utopians will play a part.

And you folks will be able to provide scintillating analysis, and whining criticism, of the progress for 40 years.

How's that for a WPA?


Posted by: Foxworth D. Roosevelt | Oct 28, 2006 10:52:15 PM | 23

final thought. how many of us here are just as guilty as the kossacks jerome tongue lashes? how many of us have made the changes in our lives and pay attention to the issues he raises? how many of us sit comfortably in front of our computers and rant rather than get out and do something to make change? am i guilty of this? damn straight. i don't drive an suv, but i could certainly use less energy - not a single energy efficient light bulb in my home - yet. i make an effort but it could be larger. thanks to jerome for making me think about it and giving me amunition to convince others.

Posted by: conchita | Oct 28, 2006 10:54:21 PM | 24

aladdin sane, while kos himself may have been silent on lebanon, there were countless diaries about lebanon on the site. i think to judge the site only kos is to simplify things too much. i personally barely read his diaries because they are mainly about congressional races.

Posted by: conchita | Oct 28, 2006 10:57:25 PM | 25

conchita, my valiant soldier - maybe it is because i cannot bear the sanctimonious stench of lies dressed up there as reform

the beast is unreformable

the interconnections are a qualitative improvement in communicating but to what end

the armando anti armano vaudevill spoke profoundly of its poverty, intellectual & otherwise

& there, as is true here - the women especially susang & siun from whiskybar & lespeakeasy are the voices that resonate - it would seem women in america are the first to understand the terrible news paraphrasing bertolt brecht

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 28, 2006 11:03:59 PM | 26

the repubs regulate like a "family". Meanwhile, any demo wannabe can talk the talk and walk the walk into high position or office within the party.

dats the difference. the demo is a cold salad combo, so each veg gets a seat at the plate. Repubs serve volcanic chilli.

wonder what Bobby Kennedy would make of the inequality - ref. @5. The inequality is not sustainable and its getting worse, its weakening minds.

And is Europe really all that and a bag of chips ? Well, just ask the the Algerians/Morrocans living in Paris.

Posted by: jony_b_cool | Oct 28, 2006 11:13:32 PM | 27

Somebody say something about mirrors?

Demand for end to Mexico protest

The Mexican government has demanded that protesters in the southern city of Oaxaca lift barricades and end their occupation of parts of the city.

The demand came as hundreds of federal police sent by President Vincente Fox were seen arriving in the city.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Oct 28, 2006 11:15:21 PM | 28

Somebody say something about mirrors?

Demand for end to Mexico protest

The Mexican government has demanded that protesters in the southern city of Oaxaca lift barricades and end their occupation of parts of the city.

The demand came as hundreds of federal police sent by President Vincente Fox were seen arriving in the city.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Oct 28, 2006 11:17:39 PM | 29

uncle

what is happening in mexico now is of the most critical importance & the ready use of violence foreshadows i imagaine even worse scenes

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 28, 2006 11:20:17 PM | 30

rgiap and slothrop, there are so many more voices there which resonate, it just takes some familiarity. one of the reasons i love the site is because it is so expansive. you are just as likely to encounter a grandmother passionate about wanting to save her country as you are an army grunt serving in iraq wanting to tell the truth about what is going on there. it is a site full of people and they are just people. they may not always provide the cogent analysis you find here (sometimes they do) but there is a different kind of soulfulness there and i take heart in it. the people there reach out to one another and help each other in ways that make a difference, sometimes an enormous difference in individuals' lives. i have read diaries there about everything from kos' democratic congressional races, to nyceve's series on healthcare, to buddydharma's insane but ohso healthy rants about ponies and activism, to armando's screed on alito, to exmearden's artful ponderings on life with three children, no health insurance, and not enough money, to stevend's excellent election diaries, and so many more. no, not all of the discourse is at the par of what you encounter here, but imo it is elitist to simply dismiss all of it. rgiap, you know better than anyone the validity of writing. well, there is an enormous community of people sharing there who might otherwise be isolated. we no longer talk over clotheslines in our backyards or meet on stoops. we buy our coffee at starbucks rather than the local lunch counter. places like dkos are where the concerned go to meet and talk. i thank jerome for taking the time to write his diaries and trying to reach deeper into people's lives and psyches.

Posted by: conchita | Oct 28, 2006 11:24:04 PM | 31

@r'giap re #30

I agree, perhaps I should have worded/opened it better..

Shape of things to come...

Mirror to the future, as it were.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Oct 28, 2006 11:30:30 PM | 32

what is happening in mexico makes me weep. i am numb thinking about what is happening in my beloved oaxaca. the murder of brad will is another example of governments killing with impunity. the fact that he was filming when he was shot is symbolic of what has happened to our media. they kill the ones who tell the truth and line the pockets of the ones who hoodwink and brainwash. fox = bush

Posted by: conchita | Oct 28, 2006 11:30:38 PM | 33

Sloth: "the issue of class is lacking any accommodation there" is an astounding statement when given as a critique of a forum that has been labled redneck heaven by an elite investment banker. Do you suppose "redneck" is not a class category? In fact, class is a very big issue on Kos, but it is discussed in terms of jobs, money, political inequality and power, and so on, and not using terms like hegemony and fetishization. Kos is not a socialist site, but socialism appears to be a dead movement internationally.

Posted by: citizen k | Oct 28, 2006 11:33:35 PM | 34

ô citizen k you are of course correct we are all living in the beloved fatherland of the future where class race & gender have dissapeared as has socialism, justice & equality of opportunity(which after all is just another expression of a class war)

yes the fatherland of the furute beckons - sword in hand - we shall go at the arabs - as our forefathers went after brown, black, yellow or red people with the axes of of love for libertarian luxury

ô necesssity
ô will
ô entendement
ô splendid sense seeing all

from bukharins backyard right up negri's nose

both jeremiah & job were in the last analysis, dialectical materialists

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 28, 2006 11:47:30 PM | 35

conchita

much to your credit you are aware of the kos shortcomings.

Posted by: slothrop | Oct 28, 2006 11:52:06 PM | 36

goddamnit ck. point me to some specific kos diarists who are class conscious, in some specific arrangement of analysis. unintended irony is not critique.

Posted by: slothrop | Oct 28, 2006 11:58:41 PM | 37

slothrop, i'll take a stab at that, although i am certain citizenk will have a better response: meteorblades.

Posted by: conchita | Oct 29, 2006 12:07:26 AM | 38

Marx is dead as a door nail, these many years.

Small loss to the children at Christmas time.

Posted by: E. Scrooge | Oct 29, 2006 12:08:15 AM | 39

Bush Moves Toward Martial Law


In other words, the law facilitates the "transfer" of the newest in so-called "crowd control" technology and other weaponry designed to suppress dissent from the Pentagon to local militarized police units. The new law builds on and further codifies earlier "technology transfer" agreements, specifically the 1995 DOD-Justice Department memorandum of agreement achieved back during the Clinton-Reno regime.(4)

It has become clear in recent months that a critical mass of the American people have seen through the lies of the Bush administration; with the president's polls at an historic low, growing resistance to the war Iraq, and the Democrats likely to take back the Congress in mid-term elections, the Bush administration is on the ropes. And so it is particularly worrying that President Bush has seen fit, at this juncture to, in effect, declare himself dictator.

TITLE 10--ARMED FORCES

Subtitle A--General Military Law

PART I--ORGANIZATION AND GENERAL MILITARY POWERS

CHAPTER 15--INSURRECTION

Sec. 333. Interference with State and Federal law

The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or
by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary
to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful
combination, or conspiracy, if it--
(1) so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of
the United States within the State, that any part or class of its
people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection
named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted
authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect
that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or
(2) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United
States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.

In any situation covered by clause (1), the State shall be considered to
have denied the equal protection of the laws secured by the
Constitution.

(Aug. 10, 1956, ch. 1041, 70A Stat. 15.)

TITLE 10--ARMED FORCES

From the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007:

SEC. 1042. USE OF THE ARMED FORCES IN MAJOR PUBLIC EMERGENCIES.

(a) USE OF THE ARMED FORCES AUTHORIZED-

(1) IN GENERAL- Section 333 of title 10, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:

`Sec. 333. Major public emergencies; interference with State and Federal law

`(a) USE OF ARMED FORCES IN MAJOR PUBLIC EMERGENCIES- (1) The President may employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to--

`(A) restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States, the President determines that--

`(i) domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order; and

`(ii) such violence results in a condition described in paragraph (2); or

`(B) suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such insurrection, violation, combination, or conspiracy results in a condition described in paragraph (2).

`(2) A condition described in this paragraph is a condition that--

`(A) so hinders the execution of the laws of a State or possession, as applicable, and of the United States within that State or possession, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State or possession are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or

`(B) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.

`(3) In any situation covered by paragraph (1)(B), the State shall be considered to have denied the equal protection of the laws secured by the Constitution.

`(b) NOTICE TO CONGRESS- The President shall notify Congress of the determination to exercise the authority in subsection (a)(1)(A) as soon as practicable after the determination and every 14 days thereafter during the duration of the exercise of the authority.'.

(2) PROCLAMATION TO DISPERSE- Section 334 of such title is amended by inserting `or those obstructing the enforcement of the laws' after `insurgents'.

(3) HEADING AMENDMENT- The heading of such 15 of such title is amended to read as follows:

`CHAPTER 15--ENFORCEMENT OF THE LAWS TO RESTORE PUBLIC ORDER'.

(4) CLERICAL AMENDMENTS- (A) The table of chapters at the beginning of subtitle A of title 10, United States Code, and at the beginning of part I of such subtitle, are each amended by striking the item relating to chapter 15 and inserting the following new item:

331'.

(B) The table of sections at the beginning of chapter 15 of such title is amended by striking the item relating to sections 333 and inserting the following new item:

`333. Major public emergencies; interference with State and Federal law.'.

(b) PROVISION OF SUPPLIES, SERVICES, AND EQUIPMENT-

(1) IN GENERAL- Chapter 152 of such title is amended by adding at the end the following new section:

`Sec. 2567. Provision of supplies, services, and equipment in major public emergencies

`(a) PROVISION AUTHORIZED- In any situation in which the President determines to exercise the authority in section 333(a)(1)(A) of this title, the President may direct the Secretary of Defense to provide supplies, services, and equipment to persons affected by the situation.

`(b) COVERED SUPPLIES, SERVICES, AND EQUIPMENT- The supplies, services, and equipment provided under this section may include food, water, utilities, bedding, transportation, tentage, search and rescue, medical care, minor repairs, the removal of debris, and other assistance necessary for the immediate preservation of life and property.

`(c) LIMITATIONS- (1) Supplies, services, and equipment may be provided under this section--

`(A) only to the extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession concerned are unable to provide such supplies, services, and equipment, as the case may be; and

`(B) only until such authorities, or other departments or agencies of the United States charged with the provision of such supplies, services, and equipment, are able to provide such supplies, services, and equipment.

`(2) The Secretary may provide supplies, services, and equipment under this section only to the extent that the Secretary determines that doing so will not interfere with military preparedness or ongoing military operations or functions.

`(d) INAPPLICABILITY OF CERTAIN AUTHORITIES- The provision of supplies, services, or equipment under this section shall not be subject to the provisions of section 403(c) of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (42 U.S.C. 5170b(c)).'.

(2) CLERICAL AMENDMENT- The table of sections at the beginning of such chapter is amended by adding at the end the following new item:

`2567. Provision of supplies, services, and equipment in major public emergencies.'.

(c) CONFORMING AMENDMENTS- Section 12304(c) of such title is amended--

(1) by striking paragraph (1); and

(2) by redesignating paragraphs (2) and (3) as paragraphs (1) and (2), respectively.


H.R. 6166: Military Commissions Act of 2006
Military Commission Act Not Lawfully Passed

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Oct 29, 2006 12:18:08 AM | 40

they're ready for us

Posted by: annie | Oct 29, 2006 1:05:25 AM | 41

That's not really supported by data (the young Galbraith has some interesting papers on this). And anecdotally, for a European "leftist" investment banker to complain about the redneck quality of a US web site, kinda gives the game away, eh?

Not supported by whose data?

My http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality>data href> ranks the US as 92nd overall in income equality, using the Gini coefficient.

There are no first world countries below the US, and the nearest one above it is Portgual (and I'm using a generous interpretation of "first world" here), ranked 65th.

Not to belabor the point, but 8 of the top 10 countries are in Europe.

The problem here is that social inequality is a topic that is verboten in polite company in the United States and therefore receives little public discussion. Hence we can be treated to the spectacle of well heeled correspondents from the New York Times and Washington Post going to Paris and, without a trace of irony, lecturing the French on the evils of mistreating their immigrant underclass. Like anyone is going to mistake Clichy sous Bois for south central LA or the south Bronx. Like French immigrants don't have access to social programs such as subsidized housing and health care that many native born Americans can only dream about.

Frankly when well off members of the American elite deign to lecture other countries about how they treat their least fortunate members it smacks of nothing so much as hypocricy.

Posted by: Lexington | Oct 29, 2006 1:05:46 AM | 42

Oh, and for your swipe at investment bankers, John Ralston Saul was one for a while and that hasn't prevented him from writing some of the most insightful critiques of globalization I've read anywhere.

Posted by: Lexington | Oct 29, 2006 1:07:04 AM | 43

There's a very interesting recommended story today at dkos regarding my last post...


NV-SEN: Why I've just quit Jack Carter's campaign (it's OK, he'll still win)

by Greg at Carter for Nevada [Subscribe]
Sat Oct 28, 2006 at 12:59:11 PM PDT

I've just quit Jack Carter's campaign. In fact, I will no longer be working to elect Democrats during this cycle.

Don't worry - it's not what it sounds like. I've neither lost my ideals nor my mind.

I've quit because something more important has come up. "More important than electing Democrats this year?" Well, yes, hard as that may be to believe. But it's more fair to say that my individual efforts over the next ten days are needed elsewhere. I can do a little to help Jack Carter, or a lot to help protect our way of governing.

It has to do with the President's ability to declare martial law

There's more on that - which requires my revealing my actual DKos identity - after the jump..

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Oct 29, 2006 1:31:28 AM | 44

Not worried about fighting car battle sjust now. The rising price of gasoline and gas, though temporarily reversed, will force us all to reconsider. I already know people who can't afford to fill their tanks at $3, and they're dropping cars. Social forces will push back on this first, then the system will be ready for us. All we have to do is what Monolycus suggetsed, the George Washington Carver model, keep showing ways to use the healthy alternatives. This battle is ours.

Conchita, those new flourescent bulbs do not make you go half blind like the old ones. Switch, even your eyes will thank you.

New solar power approaches from Idealab are promising to get solar under 9 cents per kilowatt (coal's price). These are battles we will win because they're not in secret anymore. Start using solar (decentralized power) on large scale and watch the game shift.

Bush will destroy his own reputation, and we will have to deal with the next more elegant doppleganger. In the meantime we do the work of critics, and we enjoy each others company. And/or we organize.

And to those who think all investment bankers have no right to think Left, you seem to think citizens are all political robots rather than breathing bodies with emotions and thoughts. Why post here at all? Or anywhere?

Posted by: citizen | Oct 29, 2006 1:42:10 AM | 45

I think you will find that the first use of "redneck" was in B's rather provocative title that highlighted Jerome's rather provocative article on DKOS. Searching Jerome's article encounters NO use of the term "redneck".

It is understood that B used this to stimulate interest, but for others to use this term to attack the article is another matter. Looking at ck for jumping in there.

Thank you, Lexington 42 and 43.

Jerome has always looked to America to do something about its energy use and disuse and he now has chosen to do it directly and provocatively, in an honest attempt to do something about a threatened earth.

Posted by: ww | Oct 29, 2006 1:36:34 AM | 46

Lexington@42,

I am not very knowledgeable about Europe in general and appreciate your posts very much. But I recall being told that in France you are expected to include a photo with your resume. Maybe its just me, but thats one of the most outrageous & scary things I have ever heard in my life. Its despicable.

Not to let the USA of the hook. Studies in USA show that people with Black sounding names (ironically Jerome is one) are several times more likely to be tossed (not invited to interview) just on the basis of the name on the resume.

Posted by: jony_b_cool | Oct 29, 2006 4:44:03 AM | 47

It's always nice to hear well thought ideas that express confidence, so thanks Jerome, Lexington, Conchita, Bernhard and Citizen.

Posted by: jonku | Oct 29, 2006 4:57:50 AM | 48

Lexington: Galbraith argues that Gini data is not at all authoritative and your wikipedia list proves the point - unless you want to actually argue that India has less income inequality than the US and that Uzbekistan is a paragon of income equality. France where people like Jerome from top schools live on a different plane than ordinary people and where class operates very nakedly is not egalitarian and may well be socially and even politically less egalitarian than parts of the USA.

Posted by: citizen k | Oct 29, 2006 6:33:29 AM | 49

Sloth:
Anything by Nathan Newman, for example:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/9/4/91819/19935

RGiap:
Socialism is a dead political movement. That does not mean injustice or class has disappeared - perhaps the opposite.

Posted by: citizen k | Oct 29, 2006 6:42:35 AM | 50

Citizen: And to those who think all investment bankers have no right to think Left

I'm an admirer of Jerome's posts and read them avidly. But if you are going to talk about the failure to confront class at Dkos by contrasting an investment banker at the top of France's elite with the rabble in "redneck heaven", you should be at least a little aware of the vast mountain of irony you have just created.

In fact, one of the most interesting aspects of "left" politics right now is that it has become nearly an exclusive province of disaffected technocrats - and I don't say that dismissively at all. But there is a tendency to believe that people using some of the terminology of the old socialist mass movements and positioning themselves on the "left" somehow inherit that mantle. I'm sorry, but smart investment bankers who see interesting uses of capital to encourage better social functioning and environmentalism are not representatives of the old class struggle. To the barricades, comrades, our pivot tables, smart engineering solutions, and sofware will smash the oppressive ruling class just as we discussed at that seminar.


Posted by: citizen k | Oct 29, 2006 7:04:17 AM | 51

Well I'm a European conservative. That puts me well to the left of most American "lefties" from what I can see. I gave up on most US sites - such as Kos or Firedoglake a long time ago. What it'll take to bring Americans to some sort of willingness to abandon their current political spread of what from my POV ranges from very right wing to ultra-fascist is for the US to hit bottom. A painful - very very very painful military defeat, and a cruel economic downturn.

Both look likely to me and from my POV that's a good thing. Yes I mourn the human suffering but that's what it'll take to get the US which has become a massive force for evil back into line.

My loyalty is to my people and to my continent - not to the American empire. The greatest threat to my country, my freedom, my culture, my continent is the USA. So seeing the hyperpower getting a sharp wallop across it's kneecaps with a spiked club, well gee I'm sorry but a big part of freedom is freedom to take the consequences of your actions and your inactions. Less than half of them even bother their arse to vote.

To hell with them.

I'll be willing to help pick up the pieces - but in the same way that I'll help an alcoholic or a drug addict. You have to let them wake up in a gutter some morning and realise "Oh Shit, I've really fucked up and need help." The American oil and violence junky is a looooooooong way from that point still.

Posted by: markfromireland | Oct 29, 2006 7:35:57 AM | 52

Ditto btw the apalling income inequalities and lack of opportunities to escape the cycle of poverty in the US. Until Americans start to do something about it themselves. There's nothing anyone can do for them.

Personally I'm delighted to see the beginnings of a left-wing resurgence in Europe and a push back against untramelled capitalism. Untramelled capitalism (or any other "ism" you care to mention) is a seriously bad idea. That's why I support things like strong trade unions, and higher social welfare spending. American neo-liberalism aka "Victorian values" in the UK which is what many so-called "consersative ideas" are was a bad idea to start off with - it hasn't improved with age.

Posted by: markfromireland | Oct 29, 2006 7:59:22 AM | 53

Well I'm a European conservative. That puts me well to the left of most American "lefties" from what I can see.

Can you say what that means concretely? I find "left" and "right" to be not so informative. Is Blair "to the left" of Bush? Is Michael Noonan to the left or the right of Peggy Noonan?

On your other point, this type of Euro "we're just bystanders in the world system" thinking is a bizzare phenomenon. The oppressed masses of the third world thank you for your butter subsidy and join youo in solidarity against the Yank devils.

Posted by: citizen k | Oct 29, 2006 8:09:53 AM | 54

I mean that I as a European conservative have more, far more, in common politically with a European socialist such as Bernhard or R'giap than with most American "leftwingers."


On your other point, this type of Euro "we're just bystanders in the world system" thinking is a bizzare phenomenon. The oppressed masses of the third world thank you for your butter subsidy and join youo in solidarity against the Yank devils.

Can't you do better than that? No evidently not. Ho hum. Thank you for traducing my point. I'm well aware of the fact that most European countries have actively collaborated with the US. I'm also well aware of the fact that an increasing number of Europeans are unwilling to do so.

Posted by: markfromireland | Oct 29, 2006 8:26:36 AM | 55

I'm well aware of the fact that most European countries have actively collaborated with the US.

Ah yes. After the Yanks launched the conquistators on the world, dragged portugese ships to Goa, forced Dutch farmers to settle in South Africa and hoodwinked the English into looting India for a couple of hundred years, it's grand to realize that this "collaboration" is coming to a close. How many years the poor Europeans have put up with Yankee Imperialism. Tragic. And then forced to subsidize butter too as a final indignity. It reminds me of that great poem:

"It seems a shame," the Walrus said,
"To play them such a trick,
After we've brought them out so far,
And made them trot so quick!"
The Carpenter said nothing but
"The butter's spread too thick!"


But I'm still not clear about your differences with, say, the majority wing in the US Democratic party. For example, I'd say being pro-labor union, pro-social welfare, and anti-war-adventures is pretty much consensus at Kos. That is Kos consensus is well to the "left" of the British Labor party ruling group and probably Sin Fein as well. Considering how the Irish labor unions covered up Turkish slave labor in Ireland, I'm not sure that they are to the "left" of the Kos consensus.


Posted by: citizen k | Oct 29, 2006 8:38:00 AM | 56

Citizen @49:

"Top schools?" Class operating nakedly? Are you seriously suggesting that America is a classless society?

Johnny @ 47:

Do you have any evidence that photos with resumes serve a racist function?

Posted by: Tantalus | Oct 29, 2006 9:05:42 AM | 57

You manifestly haven't a clue what Sinn Fein's politics are or the Worker's Party either if you think that. Go do some research.

As to the Labour party in the UK the blairite wing is relatively small and under increasing attack from the left.

Go fling your points about colonialist history at somebody else they're irrelevant to the current point. What we're talking about is the current empire. The American one which is just as viciously racist, class based, and exploitative as it's European predecessors. Yes European colonialists have a lot to answer for and so does the current European political class who were and are collaborators with the current empire. The American one.

And as you're either hard of comprehension or simply point scoring I'll spell it out what distinguishes me from the American "left."

I recognise that the days of western imperialism and the class structures that suported it are over - most Americans don't. That's what distinguishes me from the kossacks and the American so-called left. What really bothers them is not living in an imperialist state but the fact that they're living in a losing imperialist state.

Posted by: markfromireland | Oct 29, 2006 9:13:35 AM | 58

dKOS? I stopped posting there the day after the election 2004. Most of the posters I admired left about that time... some formed their own websites.

Bernard, I am not European - but I share your pov - most of dKOS is 'redneck heaven'

Frankly, I stopped reading the blogs altogether in August... with the exception of Billmon and MOA...

markfromireland, I share your observation of my native country. Were it not for my grands, I would leave.

Posted by: crone | Oct 29, 2006 9:19:22 AM | 59


@58
What really bothers them is not living in an imperialist state but the fact that they're living in a losing imperialist state.

This is such an important point and I am glad you made it even though it took four posts.

I see this sentiment a lot too. And one can only hope it will pass with time.

Posted by: jony_b_cool | Oct 29, 2006 9:25:21 AM | 60

Tantalus: Of course the US is unequal and riven by class. I'm disputing the ridiculous theory that the US is obviously less egalitarian than Western Europe, for example, or India (if you buy that Gini data).

Posted by: citizen k | Oct 29, 2006 9:28:50 AM | 61

i fundamentally respect jérôme's position - tho we come from entirely different positions

the fact that he is a banker & a very specific type of banker only elucidates the point that is clear in europe - that the hatred of inequalities crosses class lines

mark from ireland & i work on the terrain in different ways & we can both see the construction of a resistant anti imperialist left & above all we can thank the brutal policies of the bush cheney junta for pushing that along

it is not strnge in this town for meetings to include people of all origins & classes because they undrstand precisely, the problem & possess very real concerns for the future

on the other handdkos is just another transmutation of the me generation - with few exceptions & yes conchita that would include meteorblades

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 29, 2006 9:34:04 AM | 62

I thought it was very plain jony_b_cool and am surprised that I had to spell it out.

Posted by: markfromireland | Oct 29, 2006 9:34:18 AM | 63

Citizen K, you display your ignorance when you talk about Ireland. Last I looked the only ones fighting for Turkish workers being ripped off were the Irish labour unions.

For example, I'd say being pro-labor union, pro-social welfare, and anti-war-adventures is pretty much consensus at Kos.
You appear to be talking about a rather different site to the rest of us. I've seen a fair chunk of support for adventures against Iran on the site and a lot that was neither pro-labour nor pro-social welfare.

Mostly, you're just indulging in nationalist bullshit. Have a nice day now!

(Mark, you might like to try http://www.eurotrib.com!)

Posted by: Colman | Oct 29, 2006 9:40:05 AM | 64

as a US citizen Germany let me make some points:

i think the European left is sitting out on a thin branch looking down at the political situation in the US: doesn't Jerome notice how his investment banker friends are loosening the political ties holding Europes 'saftey net' up? Why is he so confident this is a passing trend: Sarkozy, Blair, Schroeder?

What will happen to Europe's export led economy when the consumer economy in the US collapses? The idea that the financial community and the business community will eat profits to sustain 'socialism' strikes me as terribly naive.

In my limited view classic US liberalism stands as a pale shadow to European social democracy, but it goes the other way as well: what brought down the Liberals in the US is just as potent a weapon in Europe. When you listen to the latest results from the stock market every day it's easy to forget that the real standard of living in the US has been declining for decades now: real for those who aren't college educated and increasingly so for those who have been. Europe has benefitted from the long growth out of the abyss of WWII: the socialism of prosperity.

Again: what will happen to socialsm in Europe when the money runs out?

Posted by: geos | Oct 29, 2006 9:42:18 AM | 65

@ crone

Have read very little at dKOS, read through the comments on Jerome's post. To say that dKOS is "redneck heaven" is unfair. Many of us know "redneck" (even escaped it)and that ain't redneck. Maybe we better get our definitions correct. "Far right" can at least be intelligent, "redneck" is blithely ignorant and proud of it.

Check out Lucianne if you can stomach it.

Posted by: bill galt | Oct 29, 2006 9:44:56 AM | 66

The thing that freaks me out R'giap is that on this topic I find myself agreeing more with the "hard" left than anyone else. My son is "enhedlisten" (red-green alliance) and politically he and I get very well :-)

I also find myself looking forward immensely to the defeat of the current poujadiste rightwing trend such as the Folkeparti in Denmark in European politics. Strange times we live in no?

Posted by: markfromireland | Oct 29, 2006 9:46:44 AM | 67

the u s is clearly & without contest the country with the profoundest degree of inequality - only kabilaland - i mean the democratic republic of congo - is an apt comparison

& indeed the politics are not so different

if anyone thinks that horse & pony show in november is anything better than what is happening in kinshasa - then you should think again

& conchita, anything & i mean anything that mobilises people inside the belly of the beast is a good & healthy thing - i think what we are all suggesting what is the precise context of that mobilisation. what is its specificity

but i cannot but concur with markfroireland - in that in large prt it remains the crybabysite of the me generation - even the diaries on health there - do not comprehend deeply why such a parlous situation exists & who benefits

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 29, 2006 9:52:23 AM | 68

Tantalus @ 47:

Do you have any evidence that photos with resumes serve a racist function?

its well known that people tend to prefer to hire others like themselves. So its not just any one race or group thats jeopardized.

and unless you are applying for a job as an actor or model, what really is the point ?

Also, I would like to know what merit France sees in this practice.

Posted by: jony_b_cool | Oct 29, 2006 9:56:24 AM | 69

Again: what will happen to socialsm in Europe when the money runs out?

I do not think that the problem is necessarily the access to money (energy), but the political will to have a safety net. Just as the german safety nets were enacted by Bismarck to pre-empt a communist revolution, so was general safety nets and equal(ish) income distribution a defense against communist revolutions after the russian revolution and the economic crisis of the 1930ies. But sure our political spectrum is also wandering to the right in Europe. Interestingly enough the right bloc won the last election in Sweden by promising to deliver a better welfare state, i.e. the right went left. To soon to see it as a trend though.

Somehow relevant to the issue of the American empire is that there was a poll among swedes on which country is the biggest threath against world peace, China, Iran, Israel, North Korea, Russia or USA. Results:

USA 29%
North Korea 28%
Iran 18%
Israel 6%
China 4%
Russia 3%

Sure, stupid question and all, but still a bit interesting.

Posted by: a swedish kind of death | Oct 29, 2006 9:57:05 AM | 70

mark

you are correct to imply in yr last post - that the poujadiste threat in europe remains a menacing one & one that needs to be fought constantly - blair & brown are themselves - pure poujadistes

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 29, 2006 9:57:35 AM | 71

not that it matters but look at some of the popular 'bloggers':

Kos admits that he started out as a Republican, Atrios as a neo-liberal economist, Digby as a Clinton apologist/Third Wayist.

All of these bloggers have been pushed farther left than where they started, as the comfortable center as collapsed in the US. If DailyKos is 'right wing' it's moving to the left: shouldn't we all be happy about that?

No, because the real revolutionaries aren't on the left but on the right and revolutions aren't driven by ideology but power as the previous social order becomes weak...

The fact is that wrt US politics to be 'Left' is to be conservative. That is the left is in the business of defending the now elderly and decrepit social institutions of the 'New Deal' against revolutionaries who want to tear it all down...

all of this is another way of saying if you think Bush is bad, wait until you see who's next.

Posted by: geos | Oct 29, 2006 9:59:44 AM | 72

Colman thanks - I'll check them out.

/* I see you're running serendipity */ and option I'm looking at too. I may be in touch with you about that if that's ok.

Geos in my experience Americans living in Europe really don't get how deeply rooted the radical tradition is here, or in the UK come to that.

"When Adam delved and Eve span - who was then the gentleman" - that was the Lollards.

That tradition it seems to me didn't make it acrosss the Atlantic but it's pretty fundamental over here. I don't regard the Berluscone's or Blair's or Sarkozy's as necessarily the shape of the future here. I strongly suspect that it's far more likely to be a resurgent left than them.

Posted by: markfromireland | Oct 29, 2006 10:01:28 AM | 73

That tradition it seems to me didn't make it acrosss the Atlantic but it's pretty fundamental over here. I don't regard the Berluscone's or Blair's or Sarkozy's as necessarily the shape of the future here. I strongly suspect that it's far more likely to be a resurgent left than them.

Posted by: markfromireland | Oct 29, 2006 10:01:28 AM | 73

Well, maybe you're right. I tend to feel that nativism is a much stronger force in European politics than in the US: witness the recent political fight (in the US) over Mexican immigration.

In Germany it strikes me that (like Israel) the former-East is pulling Germany right rather than left.

But wait a minute: didn't you say you were a Tory?

Posted by: geos | Oct 29, 2006 10:10:59 AM | 74

No geos I was very precise I said I'm a European conservative but thank you for making and reinforcing my point :-)

Posted by: markfromireland | Oct 29, 2006 10:24:31 AM | 75

Aargh I hit enter too soon. Sorry 'bout that. Yes the nativism issue is important but more I think as a reaction against the sideeffects of increasing economic integration than anything else.

Posted by: markfromireland | Oct 29, 2006 10:29:27 AM | 76

I've always that nativism is an ever-present component of the highly volatile politico-social makeup of European society. When it seethes to the top it is addressed, as in England in the early 60s and late 70s, both on the streets and in the legislature. Yes, it's ugly, but for every swing rightwards there has been - so far - a corrective. I'm talking about post-WW2, of course. It's also my perception that the US has lacked this volatility since the 60s and instead of addressing its social problems, tends to legitimize them in the amber of quasi-respectability - eg. affluent middle-class ethnic minorities on TV, happily non-integrated. I would guess that most Americans hear about European nativism when these issues are being ironed out in public, much like the Mexican immigration question, geos.

Perhaps RGiap or Lupin could shed some light on the French situation?

Posted by: Tantalus | Oct 29, 2006 10:55:32 AM | 77

markfrom ireland @58
What really bothers them is not living in an imperialist state but the fact that they're living in a losing imperialist state.

i couldn't agree more. it is what i was trying to say in my posts last night. r'giap, i recognize the shortcomings of dkos, but i also see much good there. the above contextualizes it for me, but i do not see the validity of writing off the site entirely. bernhard certainly has blown up a shitstorm with his post and use of "redneck". i do wonder what redneck translates to in german.

Posted by: conchita | Oct 29, 2006 10:58:58 AM | 78

Jeg kan desværre ikke hjælpe dig med tysk Conchita. Men på dansk er det "rød nakke" :-)

Sorry couldn't resist :-)

Posted by: markfromireland | Oct 29, 2006 11:04:12 AM | 79

indeed nathan newman and meteor blades are good reads there at kos. encouraging even as outliers in the kos ambit of "left" commentary.

I'll tell you though, b has something here worth bragging about.

Posted by: slothrop | Oct 29, 2006 11:10:07 AM | 80

It's also my perception that the US has lacked this volatility since the 60s and instead of addressing its social problems, tends to legitimize them in the amber of quasi-respectability - eg. affluent middle-class ethnic minorities on TV, happily non-integrated.

that's superficial though. what drives integration in the US is citizenship by right-of-birth. the inviolability of this basic right puts real limits on anti-immigrant politics. on the other hand, this argument might be different if the US faced serious immigration from africa.

what has characterised the collapse of Liberal politics in the US has been the ability of financial/industrial interests to play the "unterschriften" against the professional classes in an environment of increasing economic pressure on lower-wage workers. this has been achieved through a variety of 'nativist'-like tactics. the only reason why Thatcherism isn't the state religion of GB is the inability of 'conservatives' to synthesize 'nativist' politics with European integration (in my ignorant opinion....)

Posted by: geos | Oct 29, 2006 11:13:51 AM | 81

"rød nakke"

der er ikke nogen mennesker der hedder "rød nakke" undtages dem der boer i han herred eller aarhus/.

Posted by: slothrop | Oct 29, 2006 11:16:39 AM | 82

my shitty conbtribution to danish humor.

Posted by: slothrop | Oct 29, 2006 11:17:46 AM | 83

Nååååh for fanden Slothrop du har glemte begge Odsherred og Varde!!!!!!

Posted by: markfromireland | Oct 29, 2006 11:19:58 AM | 84

in brif tantalus - you have poujadisme meets the front national in the form of mr sarkozy

you also have a plianr media which supports him & who exaggerate the security situation out of all proportion to the facts

vut as you can imagine - working vlass & immigrant communities do not take to being called vermin,scum & filth & they have reacted accordingly

the fascists here a no more than small time crooks & gangster & i am convinced that they are like the cagoule in the 30's - that is their political formations are nothing more than a means to accrue money fro personal benefit ( le pen for example has been the 'beneficiary' of many questionable heritages & those heritages have benefited le pen personally. many of the heritages have been questioned in court as being the result of extorsion - often with violence

other than that the followers of le pen pays the bill. like all nativist he detests the people he says he protects

that is even truer of our joseph goebells look alike -- bruno megret

sarkozy is their bastard son but he has sufficient intelligence to mask the ideological connections

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 29, 2006 11:22:45 AM | 85

btw. what are the ascxii characters for /aa /ae /o? i've often wondered how I can add these characters without selecting insert "symbol"?

Posted by: slothrop | Oct 29, 2006 11:23:52 AM | 86

ROFLOL Slothrop - and I do agree with you about what b has done. Actually I think "redneck" was well chosen b.

A question to American readers. What is the difference between a country/people that says it is the master nation and a country/people that says it is the master race?

Because for the life of me I can't see one.

Posted by: markfromireland | Oct 29, 2006 11:24:26 AM | 87

sometimes i type so badly it may as well be danish

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 29, 2006 11:30:12 AM | 88

æ

Æ



å

Å



ø

Ø

Are the xhtml entities. brb

Posted by: markfromireland | Oct 29, 2006 11:30:52 AM | 89

æ

Æ



å

Å



ø

Ø

Are the numeric entities

Posted by: markfromireland | Oct 29, 2006 11:33:32 AM | 90

Typing in either will give you those characters assuming the character set is UTF-8 which a quick peek at the code for here tells me is indeed the case.

Posted by: markfromireland | Oct 29, 2006 11:35:44 AM | 91

lol @ r'giap

And I appreciated the danish discussions on rednecks...

Posted by: a swedish kind of death | Oct 29, 2006 11:35:45 AM | 92

wow. thanx. solves a mystery

Posted by: slothrop | Oct 29, 2006 11:38:19 AM | 93

markfromireland @79, all humour at my expense is absolutely fine with me. :*) though, i do wish my danish neighbors hadn't moved back to denmark. and slothrop, i do think b has something here well worth bragging. we are all quite fortunate he is such a hospitable and provocative barkeep.

Posted by: conchita | Oct 29, 2006 11:40:14 AM | 94

my shitty conbtribution to danish humor.

Posted by: slothrop | Oct 29, 2006 11:47:44 AM | 95

LOL R'giao I laugh about it now. But when I was learning Danish it got a bit hairy. Have you any idea what an Irish guy who speaks French with a strong Quebecois accent (learnt the basics in Montreal while on a schoolboy scholarship) sounded like to a Dane when I was trying to learn Danish?

They used to look at me blankly and then say in perfect English:

"What language were you trying to speak?"

Aaaaaarrrgggghhhhhh - however is universal :-)

Posted by: markfromireland | Oct 29, 2006 12:00:48 PM | 96

"I see this sentiment a lot too. And one can only hope it will pass with time."
Sorry, history shows that most of the citizens of an imperialist power only stop being delusional when the whole thing comes crashing down and foreign armies march throughout their capital. And even then it may be a close call. Look at Rome, Napoleonian France, Third Reich, and others. In fact, this is what explains why the British are still sucking it up to the current empire; the last time an invading army rampaged throughout London, it wasn't even a capital and the people spoke nothing close to English.

About Kos, well, Meteorblades is a shining exception, someone up there with Billmon and a few others in Blogistan.

Geos: I fear you're right. If you think Bush is bad, wait for the next one. Just like Hunter Thompson, who ended up saying he'd gladly vote for Nixon if he was the only alternative to Bush in the elections.

Conchita: You're indeed right that there's a lot of things going on on DKos, many great things, many coordination, actions, solidarity. Though as I said, the empire and the whole system is doomed. DKos has a great role to play, but people, Kos to begin with, just don't see what it is. They're here to help people when the downfall truly comes, here to alleviate the insane amount of pain that will resonate throughout the country, and abroad. They're here to help locally people to survive, to not become terminally insane, to support each other morally as much and even more than physically.
That's far from an apt comparison, and the present situation as well as the fall and the whole future are very different, but as far as I can see, DKos must first of all look to be a kind of Foundation, because the end of Trantorian empire is coming.
We're fucked. Assuming the species don't die off, assuming Western civilization won't get utterly and definitively wiped out, the only things to do are to keep in mind what is will end and to contribute to building something worth it after that. Because the US, the West, and mankind overall, are way beyond the red line, there's no going back to a New Deal paradise where everyone will live happily ever after. We now have to face the time of punishment, and it won't be pretty.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Oct 29, 2006 12:20:14 PM | 97

@markfromireland, re: character entities:

Actually, it doesn't matter whether the declared character set is UTF-8 or not. If a web browser obeys the HTML spec (3.something or later) -- which most browsers do, at least to this extent -- then ALL web pages are "internally" Unicode, which means that character entities work. Character encodings are there because not all web pages are recorded as UTF-8, and the browser has to know what the page starts off as in order to convert to the internal UTF-8 representation.

Posted by: The Truth Gets Vicious When You Corner It | Oct 29, 2006 12:24:57 PM | 98

true enough The Truth Gets Vicious When You Corner It but it assumes the correct character set in the relevant font doesn't it? Or has that changed? If it has I'm going to be very happy indeed.

I'll check back tomorrow folks I've got to run.

g'night for now.

Posted by: markfromireland | Oct 29, 2006 12:52:20 PM | 99

I think redneck is a misnomer, speaking as a person who grew up and still lives close to many who would fit the historical definition of the term.

ck is right that liberalism, as an undeviating stance, is mostly comprised of well-educated and often more economically advantaged ppl in the U.S. who align with poor people. (This was the case in the civil rights movement when northern college students went to the south in solidarity with disenfranchised blacks..and some of these students were killed for this stance, along with blacks.)

the pig in the python of American politics are those who consider themselves in the "middle" -- tho in nearly every other democracy I can think of, they would be considered conservative (or liberal in Europe) while the Republicans would be characterized as a group more closely matching Le Pen or Vlaamse Bloc. Are they redneck? Sort of, but not in the traditional usage of the term. They're redneck in that they are parochial and clannish. As Jerome and others noted at dkos (I couldn't read all the comments...life is too short) -- not in my back yard, don't ask me to change anything about my life, etc.

Progress has to be "sold" to this faction. how does it benefit them? this is the standard for anything, however, in most of the world, it seems to me. the calculation of how something benefits someone differs. As in, does it benefit me to have a more just economic system? Europeans say "yes" to this more than Americans do..and expect the gov. to deal with this issue, rather than a church. It's capitalism as a moral panacea. How many Americans are alive today who have known anything other than Reagan/Bush and then the continued assault on Clinton then Bush?

Speaking of energy saving bulbs...I've been using those for more than ten years...they do save money...the older ones were better than now, tho...lasted longer.) But I started using them for both the environmental issue and the personal one of cost avging. But you have to be able to afford them...same issue now with hybrid cars...as one step toward less fuel emissions.

I think the reason for this "redneck majority" in the US is because of the influence of conservative religion in American life, and an unwillingness to look at reality...at the effect of U.S. policies around the world, for instance, or to understand the science and go against the community leaders over the issue of evolution, for instance.

There is a strong isolationist streak in the U.S. and at this point in time, it would seem to be a much better stance than a far right Trotsky-ite permanantly exported revolution.

However, I think ppl on this site give too much power to the idea of American power.

As we have seen, when the balance of powers in the world becomes so unbalanced that it is more dangerous than not, other nations create new powers to challenge and contain the power du jour. We see this happening around the world now. China will work to contain N. Korea, imo, because China doesn't want the aggravation from L'il Kim.

I'm sure these other powers calculate the risks to themselves as far as letting the dollar crash, for instance. China would not find it in their interests at this time, it would seem to me, to allow their cash cow to fall. Eventually maybe, but not now.

Unless, of course, the U.S. undertakes another pre-emptive war which once again threatens the stability of other nations' internal politics, or which doesn't provide them with financial rewards, or which threatens their trade agreements.

So, again, I think that only seeing collapse as the only outcome of the current situation isn't necessarily so. Again, Emmanual Todd makes the case for a rebalancing of powers, as have other European commentators/writers.

Posted by: fauxreal | Oct 29, 2006 1:13:10 PM | 100

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