so woodward’s on 60 minutes tomorrow night, too. more of the sheeple will hear the truth. wonder what this will do the confidence level of this administration? not a comforting thought when you consider our brand new legislation vis-a-vis “a prescient CIA Cold War observation about Soviet leaders in times of stress” from b real’s link to alfred mc coy’s “state of denial”

“When feelings of insecurity develop within those holding power,” reads an agency analysis of Kremlin leadership applicable to the post-9/11 White House, “they become increasingly suspicious and put great pressures upon the secret police to obtain arrests and confessions. At such times, police officials are inclined to condone anything which produces a speedy ‘confession,’ and brutality may become widespread.” In sum, the powerful often turn to torture in times of crisis, not because it works but because it salves their fears and insecurities with the psychic balm of empowerment.

Posted by: conchita | Oct 1 2006 0:48 utc | 4

One of the many problems w/Debs’ favorite version of 911 as due to incompetence is accounting for why Condi called the (black)Mayor of SF & told him not to fly on the morning of 911, well before the planes took off.

Posted by: jj | Oct 1 2006 1:37 utc | 6

the proper link for mc coy’s “the myth of the ticking time bomb” in 4. sorry.

Posted by: conchita | Oct 1 2006 2:02 utc | 8

Fired – or used & tossed. Powell’s so much like bobby woodward – just another vain power-hungry obsequious toad.

Posted by: jj | Oct 1 2006 2:55 utc | 10

Conchita,
Good point. (Hey, as if we don’t have enough to worry about.)
Torture is so intrinsically evil that to even discuss/debate its use is far beneath moral reason, and I usually tune out or skip such links/articles/debates. My disgust with U.S. torture goes back far beyond this President. The U.S. Federal Bureau of Prisons employed an acquaintance of mine, a Psychologist, many years ago. His job was to give an opinion on whether or not the information obtained under torture was valid. Even then, non-U.S. citizens were considered to have little, if any, dignity as human beings, and no constitutional rights. The theory was back then, “hell, what’s the problem with a few broken fingers?” No doubt this was widely known by many in the mainstream media, and even then, no outrage was ever forthcoming. I was fighting so many battles back then that I ignored it also. This is just another of my life’s moments/decisions that I regret now. Perhaps this current Bush torture nightmare will end in a positive note as it may clear up a long outstanding problem. There is an old saying, “Nobody is totally worthless; they can always be used as a bad example.”
But your point about the new anti-terror legislation, combined with all the recent ‘shit hitting the fan’, gives us yet another red flag to ponder.

Posted by: Rick Happ | Oct 1 2006 4:17 utc | 12

Re: my #9
From the NY Times review:

The whole atmosphere too often resembled a royal court, with Cheney and Rice in attendance, some upbeat stories, exaggerated good news and a good time had by all.” Were the war in Iraq not a real war that has resulted in more than 2,700 American military casualties and more than 56,000 Iraqi civilian deaths, the picture of the Bush administration that emerges from this book might resemble a farce. It’s like something out of “The Daily Show” or a “Saturday Night Live” sketch, with Freudian Bush family dramas and high-school-like rivalries between cabinet members who refuse to look at one another at meetings being played out on the world stage.
There’s the president, who once said, “I don’t have the foggiest idea about what I think about international, foreign policy,” deciding that he’s going to remake the Middle East and alter the course of American foreign policy. There’s his father, former President George Herbert Walker Bush (who went to war against the same country a decade ago), worrying about the wisdom of another war but reluctant to offer his opinions to his son because he believes in the principle of “let him be himself.” There’s the president’s national security adviser whining to him that the defense secretary won’t return her phone calls. And there’s the president and Karl Rove, his chief political adviser, trading fart jokes.

*sigh*
also, there was even more republican craziness that came out tonight. Turns out rove accepted gifts from Abramof and even leaked information too him. Can they top this lastest round?
p.s. If, –and that’s a big If– but, If, the war crimes hammer does fall, I hope they get both Powell’s Colin, and son.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Oct 1 2006 6:26 utc | 14

This kind of talk would get General Odom disappeared (or forced to defend himself from charges that he had homosexual relationships with dead, underaged puppies) if it weren’t for the fact that the MSM has charitably decided to ignore it. The headline speaks for itself.
Lt. Gen. Odom Speaks Truth In US Capitol Basement

Posted by: Monolycus | Oct 1 2006 6:34 utc | 16

So, are they going to blackmail Jeff Gannon to spill the beans on his WH liasons & stuff McCain in there w/agreement he won’t attack Iran? Or is the gang who can’t shoot straight going to be left in there for another 2-1/2 yrs.?

Posted by: jj | Oct 1 2006 7:18 utc | 18

Okay, jj… how about this one?

Conyers thanked Odom and Pillar but said that he and his colleagues who agree with him cannot convince other Congress Members. “There’s one thing that gets to members, and that’s constituents….” In the end, conyers said, the question is how do we get more of our people to tell their representatives that the Progressive Caucus members are right?

That’s a damned good question Conyers poses, especially in light of the fact that this is typical of the kind of dissent the American public is willing to offer up… when they aren’t organising to make sure a lame duck President doesn’t get a third term or whatever the hell they think is going to come of what they are doing.
Billmon once made an observation about the relative use of idiots… so far, activists have been pretty damned useful if you want to get away with something immoral and/or illegal (read: they make great enablers for the Right). But hell, that’s a lot of ineffectual grumbling for a tyrant to have to stomach.

Posted by: Monolycus | Oct 1 2006 7:48 utc | 20

Coincidentally the Guardian is running a story today on the panic by US intelligence over the ‘mastermind’ behind the ‘liquids on planes security scare’ forcing the Brits to play their hand before they had identified the whole network.
It goes to the whole incompetence thing again. National Security fucked up the WTC attack by waiting too long and doing nothing, ever since Homeland Security and their ninny associates have been freaking at any hint of ‘terrorism’ resulting in either blowing good intelligence before it bears fruit or even worse but far more frequent, the harassment and torture of innocents.
Here is a bit of the Grauniad piece:
US pushed MI5 into airport terror swoop

The US warned Britain that it was prepared to seize the key suspect in the UK’s biggest ever anti-terrorism operation and fly him to a secret detention centre for interrogation by American agents, even if this meant riding roughshod over its closest ally, The Observer can reveal.
American intelligence agents told their British counterparts they were ready to ‘render’ Rashid Rauf, a British citizen allegedly linked to al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and who was under surveillance in Pakistan, unless he was picked up immediately. Rauf is the key suspect in the alleged plot to detonate explosives on up to 10 transatlantic planes that was exposed in August and, according to the police, would have brought ‘mass murder on an unimaginable scale’.
The Americans’ demand for Rauf’s quick arrest dismayed the British intelligence services, which were worried that it could prompt terrorist cells in the UK working on separate plots to bring forward their plans or go underground. In the weeks preceding his arrest it is understood that MI5 and MI6 discussed with their US counterparts the best way to dismantle the alleged plot. Britain wanted more time to monitor Rauf, but the US was adamant that Rauf should be arrested immediately.
The revelation casts new light on the nature of America’s relationship with Britain in the war on terrorism and provides further evidence of its suspicions that Pakistan was not fully committed in the war against al-Qaeda. . .

The pommie intelligence services are still pretty red-faced about this whole liquids on planes thing as it was more intrusive for a bigger proportion of the english than anyone else, since it went down right at the time they take their ‘package holidays’ to Spain and other melanoma meccas. (Noel Coward was right about mad dogs and englishmen. Sensible people from other places cover themselves up when out in the sun but the english still strip off and pour that ‘ambre solaire’ oil over themselves to facilitate the frying process. In fact it seems to all some of them want to do while on holiday it’s weird, fuckin weird but that’s a digression)
People there got really pissed about it and no one really took it seriously from the start. This incident was the final nail in the Bliar’s coffin so naturally it’s payback time. A couple of years ago Bliar would have sat on this “in the interests of the special relationship” (yeah right Tony suck-arse)
Now it’s every man for himself. He’s got nowhere with his attempts to make a silk-purse outta his road-map sows ear and it must be dawning that whatever he does he’s gonna be remembered for bringing the poms back into the rest of the world’s approbation for reverting to type ie murdering imperialists.
Even a liteweight like the Bliar can see that history is going to regard him with the contempt he has so richly earned. He will never be able to go anywhere, England or overseas, without a security detail ever again, many places in the world won’t be able to ever be on the Bliar itinery cause if they don’t let him get blown up by the local angries they will probably arrest him as a war crim.
So the last bit of his PM lag (the last hurrah) promises to be entertaining for all of us who don’t have to suffer the direct effects of it.
There will be lots more ‘revelations’ as he seeks to show the world how he was buggered by amerikan perfidy.
Now we all know he brought it on himself and the little bit of humiliation he will suffer is nothing in comparison to the suffering of the Iraqi people, cause I reckon BushCo would have been in real trouble; in fact probably have been unable to proceed with the illegal invasiion of the sovereign state of Iraq, without at least one other allegedly ‘substantial’ ally.
The urban myth about the black National Security advisor who has never given a toss about other black people persuading the black mayor of SF not to board a plane is just racist claptrap. If Rice was to warn anyone in the unlikely event it was all a plot that they have managed to keep under their hats for all this time, she would make damn sure that she didn’t expose herself doing so and wouldn’t have been warning anyone who couldn’t keep it quiet.
Dr Rice has made it abundantly clear over the years that she doesn’t care about anyone bar herself.
Still I’m still apalled at the way some people on the left in the US feel that black people aren’t allowed to be conservative. The amount of aimless venom directed at both Rice and Powell on left blogs is disgusting. Pull them up for what they are as humans by all means but as soon as people bring race into a discussion of Powell (eg the house nigger accusations that used to fly around the Whisky Bar) or Rice, they have stopped commenting on the politicians and turned a very unflattering light upon themselves.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Oct 1 2006 11:55 utc | 22

moi above

Posted by: gmac | Oct 1 2006 12:30 utc | 24

Monolycus,
Your post #25 should be required reading! Thank you.
This part of your post is especially relevant:
When we can work in concert with one another and be inclusive instead of exclusive… when we can pursue specific and realistic goals …
However, I do think mass protests on a specific issue can be effective. Blogging will not solve any problem without action. I am one of those that think of many on the left as a bunch of loonies. A mass protest is coming up for Oct. 5 and I am reluctant to participate in it.

Posted by: Rick Happ | Oct 1 2006 16:26 utc | 26

not sure whether this belongs on this thread or the weekend open thread, but maryscott o’connor echoes monolycus on my left wing and dkos with a provocative post about the torture legislation and the state of our government which includes the following call to arms:

Take a look around, people; you’re looking at a bunch of good Germans, Everywhere you go: if you don’t make it your business to fight this, either by alerting your ignorant neighbours to the facts or by deliberately undermining this fascist, criminal regime — you are, as am I, as good a German as anyone could ever hope to be.
What will it take? Burning buildings? Pane glass in the streets? Neighbours dragged away in the middle of the night? If they come for you tomorrow — are you SURE you will hear that familiar Miranda recitation? Perhaps you might… through laughter.

msoc has been much maligned because she appears regularly on the conservative john gibson show, but i believe her efforts to communicate with conservatives are a step in the right direction. in discussing torture with john gibson she

“issued a challenge to [him] last week on his radio show, to undergo 35 seconds of waterboarding with me on live television and THEN tell me it isn’t torture. He refused repeatedly. I submit that those people who undergo these “techniques” would be the first to tell you which are “torture” and which are not…

i agree with her and monolycus and anna missed. we have to act. if i am to be dragged off in the middle of the night, it had better be because i did too much rather than not enough. personally, i am still struggling with how to get past the government we have – how to either build from what is worthwhile in both parties – feingold, kuchinich, paul, kerry?, kennedy?, boxer, lee, conyers – or somehow start afresh. what if feingold could be convinced to start a third party? am i falling into the same old trap again looking for a leader? seemes to me that in order to build momentum and grow a movement has to brand itself and doing it through identification with a leader seems to work. i am just rambling here, but any thoughts?

Posted by: conchita | Oct 1 2006 18:04 utc | 28

LA Times book review: Secrets, and the obvious, revealed

One of the more troubling subplots running through “State of Denial” involves Prince Bandar, the long-time Saudi ambassador to the United States. By Woodward’s account, when then-Texas Gov. George W. Bush decided to run for president, his worried father enlisted Bandar, an old family friend, to tutor the son on foreign policy. When Bandar arrived in Austin, the younger Bush blithely observed that while he had lots of ideas about domestic policies he didn’t have a clue about foreign affairs. The Saudi took him under his wing, but he proved a trying pupil, who addressed his mentor as “asshole” and “smart aleck.” (Perhaps this is how hereditary princelings affectionately address each other?) At one point, the younger Bush peevishly demanded to know why he needed “to care about North Korea.” Bandar pointed out that, if he became president, he would have 35,000 American troops sitting on the DMZ.
Oh, right….
Later, with a Bush back in the White House, Bandar bullied the president into explicitly endorsing a two-state solution to the Israeli-conflict by threatening a total cutoff of Saudi support for U.S. policies. (Bush may never have played poker, but Bandar obviously has.) In another instance, the Saudi prince imperiously demanded — and, worse, obtained — two CIA officials to accompany him on a wild goose chase to Pakistan, where he hoped to kill Bin Laden. During a meeting in the Oval Office, according to Woodward, Bush personally thanked Bandar because the Saudis had flooded the world oil market and kept prices down in the run-up to the 2004 general election.
…
“State of Denial” is best read in tandem with Joan Didion’s assessment of Cheney in the current issue of the New York Review of Books. With that as background, one conclusion that suggests itself is that — from the beginning — Iraq really has been about Vietnam. Cheney and Rumsfeld have been the Iraq war’s principle advocates and architects. As Woodward now reveals, they’ve even introduced Henry Kissinger back into the equation, and he now is Bush’s most frequent nongovernmental advisor on foreign policy. Cheney and Rumsfeld were bright young men headed for the top during the Nixon and Ford administrations, both of whom thought of themselves, as others did, as future presidents. Though the disaster in Southeast Asia hardly ruined them, a certain stigma has attached itself ever since.
For them, the Iraq war, the whole wrenching debate over domestic spying, the detainees and unitary executive power is all about Vietnam. Cheney, Rumsfeld and Kissinger all have been convinced for decades that the country drew all the wrong historical and governmental conclusions from Vietnam. The Reagan era intervention in Central America was a first attempt to overturn those conclusions, but it foundered on the arms-for-hostages scandal. Once George W. Bush — for a set of Freudian family issues too tedious to belabor — put himself in their clutches, he became the instrument of a Cheney/Rumsfeld/Kissinger attempt to abolish 30 years of history and their enduring resentment that their youthful exercise of power ended in failure, death and disaster.
So, here we are again.

Posted by: b | Oct 2 2006 9:35 utc | 30